Episode 56: Redefining Stepmotherhood: Boundaries and Burnout

In this episode of Stepmum Space, we’re joined by Madison — a woman in her twenties who stepped into a relationship with an older man, three daughters, and two exes. Madison shares her honest journey of navigating stepfamily dynamics, building relationships with children close to her own age, and learning how to protect her peace.

We dive into:

• The emotional labour of “mum work” and how to avoid burnout
• Why it’s okay to find kids annoying — and what that really means
• How to recalibrate your role as a stepmum when things feel off
• The importance of maintaining boundaries with your partner, the children, and the exes
• What it looks like to choose yourself without guilt

This episode is a must-listen for anyone in a stepfamily, especially younger stepmums learning to balance love, responsibility, and self-respect.

Remember...

• Boundaries aren’t selfish — they’re essential.
• You don’t have to take on all the “mum work.”
• It’s okay to feel overwhelmed — and to step back when needed.
• Relationships with exes require clarity, not chaos.
• Your role can evolve — and that’s a sign of growth.

If this episode resonated with you, please hit follow, rate, and review wherever you listen — it helps Stepmum Space reach more incredible women navigating step family life.

We’re wrapping up Series 7, but we’ll be back soon with fresh stories and expert insights. Got a story to share? Reach out katie@stepmumspace.com or connect with us on Instagram/facebook/tiktok @stepmumspace.

Keywords:

Stepmum podcast, blended family boundaries, dating a man with kids, step-parenting advice, emotional labour in stepfamilies, young stepmum experience, navigating exes, parenting with partners, recalibrating stepmum role, maintaining boundaries, Stepmum Space podcast

Transcript

Katie: 0:04

Hello, I'm Katie, and this is Stepmum Space, the judgment-free zone where we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of Stepmum life. So whether you've been a stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the stepmum in your life a bit better, this is the place for you. In today's episode, I'm joined by Madison. Madison was in her twenties when she began dating an older man with three daughters and two exes. Yes. Two. Madison opens up about navigating relationships with the exes, bonding with children close to her own age, and redefining what it means to be a stepmum. We talk candidly about the emotional labour of mum work, the guilt of finding kids annoying, and the power of recalibrating your role when things feel off for you. Madison is so much fun, and we had a real giggle recording this, so I know you're gonna love it. Let's get into it. Madison, thank you so much for getting in touch with me. It was very nice to hear from you. Thanks for having me. Now, why don't you start by just telling us a bit about you and your family?

Madison: 1:14

Yeah, sure. So um, there's me, of course, and I started dating my husband five years ago. Um, and at the time he had three daughters who at that time were three years old. The next one would have been 13, and the next one would have been 17 at the time. So he's a little bit older than I am, he's 13 years older than I am. So he had two, his older two from his previous marriage, and then he kind of had a surprise after that um with the youngest. So she was almost three, and now she's almost eight. The others are adults, I guess. Yes, yeah. So they're 18 and um 21. Actually, the oldest and I have the same birthday, so we're both turning uh I'm turning 32 on October 1st, and she's turning uh 22. So we're only 10 years apart.

Katie: 2:02

Okay, so you meet your husband, he's got uh two teenagers and a preschooler in town.

Madison: 2:09

Yes, yeah. What was that like? Well, I didn't at the time of meeting him, I didn't know that he was so much older. Well, you know, a little bit older, however you want to put it. He was older than I was, and pretty quickly I was uh server at a restaurant and he was a patron and I noticed him pretty quickly. And everyone's like, oh no, we've seen him in here. He's got like a hundred kids. You don't wanna, you don't want to go for that. Which uh is obviously in the end, it's not a hundred three's not so bad. But I was like, okay, no worries, no, like fair enough, but we were just still very interested in each other, both of us from the beginning. Found out that he was, in fact, uh in my head, when people said he had three kids, I thought, you know, three young kids, because I didn't realize he he was older and he had his kids, his first two so young. So I was like, okay, well, whatever, that's fine. Um, not interested. But we were just very like drawn to each other. Um, he did tell me pretty early on, he's like, Yeah, this is my situation. And to me, I was 27 at the time. I had just bought my own house. I had come out of a relationship. I was like, cool, just just hanging out and exploring the world and living my life, and that doesn't bother me, and I'm just gonna be single and do my thing. So I was still interested in in like kind of hanging out with him. We went on some dates and it pretty like quickly snowballed into where I am now, which at the time looked like me spending more time at his house. I met his kids maybe quicker than I thought I would, the older two first, and then the youngest a little while after that at least. It just kind of snowballed. I did not obviously anticipate full-blown stepmotherhood. Um, I have no kids of my own, and we were not having kids of our own. So it's very much full-blown stepmotherhood.

Katie: 3:53

And you said in the beginning that he told me about his situation.

Madison: 3:57

So, what what was the situation? So he had his ex-wife, they shared the two, they did week on, week off, and then with his youngest. I mean, she was still just under three. Um, she was in daycare. He shared custody with his ex on that as well, but it wasn't very established. It was kind of like all over the place. And the schedule was every other day, switching alternate weekends, then switching every it was kind of back and forth, and it was very loose. It wasn't set in stone. So there was days where it was maybe his day, but then it wasn't last minute or vice versa. So that was the situation, and I was like, okay. And he's like, you know, I'm like civil, like on good enough terms with his exes, they're communicative. But I again just kind of blindly was like, cool, it doesn't matter because I won't be around that long to figure that out and need to know about. I was like, I'm just we'll just chat, we'll just have some fun, we'll just hang out and then um probably move on my way. But both his exes live within like a 20-minute drive of where we are and in opposite ends. It doesn't matter so much now with the older two because they're, you know, adults, although we can circle back to that in the end. But um at the time it was like, okay, not all that bad. You you don't sound like you're trash talking your exes, which was, I think, a good thing to hear. Um, but it also doesn't sound like you're best friends with your exes, which is also maybe a good thing to hear.

Katie: 5:21

So you went from kind of being a well, I'm in my 20s, I'm gonna just kind of date you for a while, hang out for you're here still.

Madison: 5:32

Here we are. Yeah. So I ended up eventually, I mean, maybe jumping ahead of it, but I ended up selling my place because I was splitting so much time between our two houses. Mine was like a project fixer-upper. So I was doing all the DIYs do, and it became a lot. And eventually it was like, okay, well, why don't we just focus on one house with his eldest going off to uni. It kind of snowballed quickly at that time too, because it was like now she was the one that drove the youngest to and from childcare. So it was like, oh, well, now he won't be able to because of his work schedule. And it was like, well, I'll be here now and I'll start doing that. And it it truly is like the snowball effect. There was not a lot of um foresight or planning. It just kind of happened all as it happened.

Katie: 6:19

And it's so funny though, isn't it? Because if you're gonna have a biological child, you go, you know, how often do I want them in childcare? Who's gonna get them there? How are we gonna do this? And then, like you say, in in the world of stepmotherhood, it gradually becomes like, oh, well, I can finish early and do that pickup, or I'll do this and I'll do that.

Madison: 6:34

And I yeah, I think that is definitely the case. And I mean, I I know there's you know, the you knew what you were getting into when you married someone with children, but it just the same as parenthood, it's like, yeah, you have a general idea, but it's never what it lines up to be, or it's never quite what you expect. And I think those little things like, oh, I'll do the pickup or I'll do the this, and then it just becomes it's like every day, it's oh well, I didn't even realize that was happening. And I think that's why like now I'm so outspoken about stepmotherhood because it's like such a kind of shock to the system. And I think women don't necessarily set those boundaries in the beginning because you want to please, you just help, want to be helpful, you're you know, and and then it turns into a lot of other things as well.

Katie: 7:14

You know, I always think we go into overdrive because we're so desperate not to be like a wicked stepmother. Yes. And we just want our partners to see that like we're trying really hard with their kids. So I think we end up picking up things that they need to do.

Madison: 7:29

Yes, exactly. And I think that it didn't uh necessarily help in the beginning because his eldest was at home and doing a lot of those things as well. Because he works and he has a very like tedious work schedule that doesn't allow for him to do, you know, the morning uh routine or the school pickup or any of those things. His eldest daughter was doing a lot of that as well. And then when she moved away, we were in in about a about a year in our relationship. So it did seem it was still like fresh and new, and you're still doing, you know, all the best and and wanting to help. And and I think you're right, the vision of like the evil stepmother, you want to push that back so so much that you're kind of like incringing on your own boundaries to do so. So it was this slide of her leaving, me coming in, and he always had a lot of help with um with the youngest from the eldest. And then it was like suddenly all on me. And I'm like, wait a, wait a second, shouldn't you be doing some of these things? Yeah. It was good in the beginning, I will say. Every story has twists and turns, but um, the eldest wasn't around a lot because she was working, social life, prepping. She knew she was going off to school. Um, so she wasn't always around. The middle and I were really close really really quickly, which was nice. Felt good to be like immediately quote unquote accepted. And then the youngest is she's just happy that I was around, happy to play, happy to to do all those things because she's three at the time. So, you know, she's just she's just happy.

Katie: 8:57

That's quite unusual that you had a such a good strong relationship with the with the teenage middle daughter right off the bat.

Madison: 9:05

I was a little anxious. Teenagers are a little scary, still are, but she was 13. She was, I think we had a lot in common as well. Like I was the middle child growing up, she was the middle child in some ways. Like at her mom's house, she is still the youngest, and you know, and at dad's house, she is now the middle child from her perspective. It's quite interesting. And I think I I could relate to that in some ways, being the middle child, being like a you know, forgotten child at times. So we bonded, I think we bonded over that as well, but we also have like a similar personality, similar sense of humor. So it was quite nice. And I I was really worried going into it because I know that the older two, when um my husband was with the youngest's mom, they were not fans right off the bat. And I heard like horror stories that they like the frog in the shoe, or like the pictures of mom and dad in the bed in their room when they went very like parent trap. So I was a I was a little nervous, but we hit it off pretty well.

Katie: 10:03

That's quite interesting, actually, because that that would have been their second experience of of a stepmom.

Madison: 10:08

Yeah, so they had um the youngest and her mom and my husband were together five-year range. Um, and they didn't have, yeah, they were quite young when she came into the picture, and they were very like still on the tails of, you know, mom and dad splitting. So, and I had plant parents that splits around similar age. So, like I could I could relate and understand where they're coming from, but yeah, they had a very different experience in that that was their first blended family, and the youngest, her mom also has two older kids. So they were at one time a family of four, and then when the youngest was born, like a family of five, and then splitting. So it's they've been through a whole lot of different dynamics.

Katie: 10:48

Yeah, that so the relationships with the kids are all good, the relationship with the husband's good. Everything seems rosy.

Madison: 10:56

Well, it does, and it did, but you know, it it was it was a hard kind of go. I think that I was very rose-colored glasses when it came to it, and there was definitely like boundaries that needed to be put into place, I think, with the youngest mum, especially, because she's young and she still requires a lot of communication. Whereas the older two, like, it was like if something, hey, they got a bad report card, like that was about maybe as much, or hey, graduation's coming up now. Like, there wasn't a lot of communication. We've had those two's mom around for dinner for celebrations and things. Like, you're getting to that age where that happens. And then the youngest, there's a lot of communication, but it also like doing favors and things like that. Hey, could you pick me up this? Could you do this? It was like it needed to have some boundaries in place when we first started dating. Cause it was like, you know, you're you're running errands for her. It's starting to feel a little weird or uncomfy. He would always drive uh his youngest to and from. She never had to, mom never had to do pick up, drop off. It was always him kind of at her back and call. Hey, when you drop her off, can you pick me up this? Can you grab me a pack of smokes even? Like, it was a little like, oh, okay, you know, that's gotta stop at some point. Yeah. For my comfortability, but I also think for his, like, you know, you don't owe her. But he was very like, I want to make sure that she stays happy and comfortable. I don't want her to like have any reason to try and keep my kid from me. Like, right, but you can't do all those like relationshipy things for someone else. Now I'm here. It was a lot of errands and a lot of, hey, can you do this for me? Hey, can you do that for me? I'm like, okay, there's gotta be a line somewhere. Like, once in a while is one thing.

Katie: 12:38

Also, like, I think most women would ask anybody in the world before they asked their ex.

Madison: 12:44

Yeah, you know, and I like I do understand the good terms thing, but yeah, we we kind of nipped that quickly. There was that matter. There was like matters of I think maybe she wasn't comfortable with me in the beginning, but now we're at a place where it's like me and her talk more than her and my husband do, just because we're both the mums of the situation, like all the mental load, all the arrangements, all the scheduling, all the calendar, all the who's close, who's this, what birthday party. So we we tend to text now more than they do, which I think works for our family. And I know that lots of women don't want anything to do with the ex. Um, like his older two, it's him and their mom do all the communicating. Because I wasn't around for their like childhood. So much more with the with the younger. Now we are we're all civil. It doesn't mean we all love our situation or each other. We're all civil because we know it's what's best for the situation.

Katie: 13:40

When you kind of said to your husband, hey, look, I'm not comfortable with you being Uber Eats for your ex. Yeah, yeah. How how did he take that and what happened?

Madison: 13:52

Um, I think it was like he he was a bit defensive because like he had said, you know, I'm just trying to keep everyone happy. And but I think at the same time he probably knew that it was a little bit boundary crossing even before I was in the picture. You can't have your cake and eat it too kind of situation. He didn't take it necessarily poorly, but he wasn't also like, okay, sounds great. Like there was a bit of resistance. Yeah. Um, and I, you know, I had to be very, and it was hard for me at the time because it's like, what's what's too possessive of a girlfriend? What's too um lax of a girlfriend? Like, am I being jealous? Is this coming from a place of jealousy, or is this coming from a place of this is what's healthy and needs to happen for us? And I think that's more so. I've always tried to be aware of where things are coming from.

Katie: 14:41

That is important, but I I also think, and I say this a lot to the women I work with in coaching, like if something makes you feel uncomfortable, it makes you feel uncomfortable and that's okay.

Madison: 14:51

Yeah, I think if if something makes you uncomfortable, like absolutely speak up. And I do think it is worth recognizing where it's coming from. But even if it is coming from jealousy, I think it's still worth having a conversation about. And we've had to have many conversations like that over the years because it's not just like one X, it's two. It's different dynamics, different things going on. And I've had to kind of be like, you know, what, why am I feeling this or where is this coming from? But I also am like, I'm not gonna bottle it up and and just not chat about it. Like, hey, can we just is this weird? Or like I don't have a lot of stepmom friends, so it is something that I've now like found in the groups online, the podcast. Like, it's just it's nice to have that validation too. You know, I'm not alone in thinking like this is a little uncomfy, or or you know, something that works, doesn't work for us, doesn't work for someone else, too. I'm like, okay, so it's not just me.

Katie: 15:46

Yeah. And also like sometimes you can have an uncomfortable feeling about something. And like you say, if you kind of delve in and go, oh, actually, well, that's coming from a place of I don't know, a lot of women feel insecure about if say, for example, if their partner's ex was the one who ended the relationship, they might feel insecure about that. But actually, it doesn't mean it's not okay to take action based on that. You just need to be really open about it. And you know, there's often a middle ground. So you might say, I'm really uncomfortable with you picking her up stuff. So maybe ask her not to, but of course, in an emergency, if she needs something.

Madison: 16:21

But I do think like it took also the time, and I mean, we're still only we're only five years in, and I've read things that are like, you know, the average blended family takes about seven years to really find its way. And I do find that now, like I'm more secure in our relationship. That's a time thing, you know, a bonding thing, a trust thing. But now, if it was like, oh, she wants you to stop and get whatever on her way, I'd just be like, oh, you know, as opposed to like, oh, that's like why are you doing that for her? Like, there's such a different reaction and and comes with time.

Katie: 16:56

Yeah, it's that state of like extreme unbotheredness. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Madison: 17:01

Yeah, it's it, but it did, it did feel kind of isolating in that beginning because it's like my friends don't really understand or don't want to even hear about it. Like, not to make my friends sound borough like friendships, but maybe just don't relate, don't want to hear me, you know, ask a hundred times. I'm like, am I being insecure? Is this being this? Is this weird? And and they don't have any basis to to help me out on that. And at the time you're 27. And I mean, with stepchildren that are not that far off in age from me, like my are my eldest and I are closer in age than my husband and I are. So it's like, I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I'm not how do I know what to do with a 17-year-old? Like I was just 17, wasn't I?

Katie: 18:54

You talked about what sounded like quite a chaotic schedule with your young stepdaughter. You know, it's really interesting because in some cases it's great for children to have that flexibility. And they do say with really young kids that it's good to see both of your parents often. How was it for you going into kind of this with no schedule when you yourself are still learning about being a mother figure?

Madison: 19:17

Yeah, it was interesting. I think at her age, like again, the the week on, week off is a long time at that age, like two and a half, three, to be away from the other parent, as you said, um, just away from the other household, just away from the other routines. But then it became also like this lack of routine because things could be switched so flippantly. And I in the beginning was like, I just I'll see you on the days you don't have your kids, which was hard because the older two were still doing week on, week off, and the youngest was doing every other day. So he was just, it was hard for us to see each other kid free in the beginning, unless it was asking the older two to watch her, to babysit her. And then I kind of felt guilty for having him be away from his kids. I think maybe there was some guilt there for him as well, but also like, you know, you deserve to still be an adult that does things, but then because the week on, week off, it should have been able to be fit into the weeks off, but then she was doing every other day. So it was really hard in the beginning for us to kind of see each other unless um I think about four months in is when I met had met all of the kids, which to me also now looking back is quite quick. But um, it was like, oh, come over for like a family thing. And I'm like, ooh, weird. How do I fit into that family thing? Like, am I family now? It's only been four or five months, like family movie night. And I'm like, and me.

Katie: 20:42

This is 27-year-old who was like, I'm just after like a fling or something, and then suddenly you're invited to send me.

Madison: 20:48

And now we're like having fish and chips in front of a movie screen. I like I specifically remember there's one night we ordered in fish and chips and we're watching a movie. It's right around right after Christmas time. So it was like in January in the new year, and I'm like, this is how my year's starting. Like, I I don't know what's going on. I went from like nights out at the bars with my friends to like family movie nights within the span of a couple months, and it was very strange. Very, I feel like my life did this like 180 really quick. Um, I had friends that were getting married and having kids of their own, and everyone's like, you know, we all want to be pregnant at the same time, and we all want to like in my friend group, and I'm like, I I don't know what tomorrow looks like, let alone any of that, right? So it was a very strange time, very like mentally taxing time because I wasn't sure where this was going, what I wanted to do. I was still so young. He was in such a different life stage than I was. I had just bought a house I was renovating. I was like, I don't know. I don't know what this back and forth is. His daughter, the youngest, really struggled with the schedule as well as because she was not really sure where she was going at any given day because it was so flippant. So she was having a lot of issues with it. I was kind of having issues with it. It was, it was hard in the beginning. It was hard. She wanted, you know, it when dad was picking her up, she wanted mom to pick her up, or vice versa. And she was having a lot of like trouble sleeping at night. She slept in his bed actually when we started dating. So I was never staying over because it got to a point where I was like, I'm not allowed to stay over. And if I do, I have to go sleep on the couch. And I was like, listen, this isn't gonna work for me. So we had to like put her into her own bedroom, adjust her to having a new space and sleeping in her own bed. And it was very hard. It was all things that I was just like, I didn't know what I was signing up for, you know, like it was all very difficult.

Katie: 22:46

And with all that stuff that you had to navigate as a couple, how much of it was done as a couple versus him just saying, Hey, this is how I think we should do it, or you being kind of left to figure it out.

Madison: 22:59

So even now I think we struggle sometimes with like the as a couple bit because in the beginning I was very like, Well, I'm not in charge, it's not up to me. It was very much like him. I had said, I remember this the sleeping situation. I had said, listen, she needs to go in her own bed because like part of the agreement him and his ex had was that they weren't gonna share a bed with her and then put another person completely uh respect that boundary. But I was like, but listen, like she's three, she needs to go into her own bed. I can't sleep over, we can't do this like family thing that we're trying to do. So he, you know, I kind of made that push, and then he made the choice to to put her in her bedroom. And but even now it's like we we struggle. Now I think sometimes it's more what I say goes. And I think that part of that sometimes, and we see we see a couple therapists, and we, you know, we try and work through all of it because it is very complicated. There is a lot going on. But a lot of what I say because it's like I have very little control, sometimes it feels like in a lot of situations. So I try to push for more control and like what I say is what's what's happening. We try to have the the discussions and and come to agreements and things, but I do find that maybe it tends now, like it's started earlier and then now it tends to be more like my decisions. But I'm also like I'm also primary caregiver in our household. I'm also primary parent because he works and he's not around as much for her day-to-day care as I am. So it's kind of like I've started to make the executive decisions for her care. And how'd you feel about that? So I thought, I thought I felt good about it. And now I kind of got to the point where I'm like, I want to step back about it. I kind of want to not be the one I thought that it would give me this sense of like belonging in this family unit because I think that is something I talked to my husband and our therapist about. And it's um, you know, this family unit that's pre-built, and then you're coming in and you're you can have a tendency to feel like an outsider. So it was like, well, I'll push to have some sort of control by like, hey, we're gonna do this. This is when we eat dinner, this is when we do this, like having some sort of say in things. And now I'm like, I don't want so much say in things. I'm happy to kind of take a back seat. Like she was doing her schoolwork, like her homework the other night. And I said to my husband, like, you can do this. I'm gonna go sit, I'm gonna go do that, or whatever. And trying to make it's hard though to make boundaries retroactively. I work from home, so I'm a wedding photographer and I do content creation. So I'm on my computer in my office a lot. And in the summer, when she has no school, it's like I'm doing everything, I'm home with her. I'm it's automatically by default. I'm like, how did we get here without any conversations around it? And how do you react retroactively be like, okay, I don't want to be full-time in charge of her care? And then not for not loving her or caring about her, but simply because he goes to work every day and and has his dedicated time for work, and I would like to have the same, but where do we go from here when we're so deeply involved in in our routine as we are?

Katie: 26:09

There's so much there that I think will resonate with so many people. So when you talked first about actually you feel like an outsider, there's a family that they've got the established routines, and you kind of come in and you think, well, I don't want to just blend in, like I've got the way that I want to do things. Yes. But then, like, you've created that kind of way of being as a family, but with it, it means that then it's now on you to make all those other extra decisions and have all that responsibility. And you said a little while back about how you and the youngest's mum are kind of in touch all the time with all the mental load. I wonder whether the more you've tried to kind of belong, the more you've actually ended up just taking stuff on.

Madison: 26:53

Yes, yes. And it's like I think that I see that a lot in talking to other stepmoms too, is exactly what you've said, like where you're trying to find your way and take apart, but now you're taking on more of like it should be the bioparents' jobs to do, X, Y, and Z. And I kind of now look at it as my husband always really wanted us to feel like he's always made it clear he really wanted us to just feel like a family. And so I strive to just, we just are a family, we're a regular family, but we're not. And I I I spoke with him semi-recently being, you know, it's okay to be a different kind of family. We don't have to look like a regular family. We aren't a regular family. I think it's okay to have the role of stepmom to help out bio dad if that is as she chooses to do and not take on everything for him, which is what I find we our our dynamic has kind of become. And and we're kind of trying to rework things now, five years in and see where things might be better suited to change, but very much so, like taking on all the responsibilities that a bio parent would. And it becomes a heavy burden to bear when society and maybe other people, even in your circles, are like, well, you're not mom, you're not the parent. And then you're wearing all the load of bioparent, but you're not a parent. And it's this very like mentally mental battle of like contradicting yourself and society and other people's views.

Katie: 28:18

How do you feel when people say to you, Oh, you're not a parent?

Madison: 28:22

It's so hard. And we we've had this um tattoo, and it's like, well, if I'm not a real parent, I'm packing school lunches, I'm driving to school, I'm up with her in the middle of the night because my husband's work schedule. So when she has a bad dream or when she's sick, it's me that's up with her in the night. You know, sick days, I'm the one that's here holding her hair back and like cold cloth on her forehead. And and it's like, well, then what makes a real parent? And would you say that to somebody who's adopted a child? And I think that's the struggle. Like I I've been in my own head too, is is I'm stepmom. And then also, okay, but I'm just, I'm just a mom. I'm just like any other mom, but I am a stepmom. But I am just like every other mom because I'm doing the same things as every other mom. And my youngest is always, you're just my mom. People say you're my stepmom, but you're just my mom. And that's how she's always approached having me in her life. And she now, you know, she's she's like, when I was at the hospital and you came to visit me when I was born, I was like, Oh no. But she doesn't remember that there was like a time when I wasn't here. And she's very strongly, you know, you're just my mom. And that also has made it complicated for me because I want to honor and respect how she feels, but then it also puts more on me to be like, but I am a stepmom and that's okay. So I've been all around the world and all around the block of feelings about it. I've had days crying. I've I remember my first or second Mother's Day, like taking, taking off and going for a walk and just sitting crying to myself. And it's it comes with like the joys and the heartbreaks, and it's hard. It's hard when people don't respect the work you put in and the care you put in and the effort you put in. And I've also had the talk of like, but it's okay, it doesn't matter what other people think, it just matters what we think in our family. So I've been all over with it, if that answers the question or not.

Katie: 30:19

Yeah, it does. And it's really complicated when you be that person who's close to that child, but you don't want that automatically to mean you have to do everything. But do you know what? I think that's just normal motherhood. Like me and my husband, he'll already kill me for saying this, but um he will he will quite often say things like, Oh, well, yeah, I've just I've helped with dinner. And I'm like, No, no, no, no, no. You you cooked a meal that you and your children also ate. That's not helpful.

Madison: 30:50

Absolutely. Oh, we've been there. I'm like, you know, if I wasn't around, you'd have to provide for her still, you know, not she's still a minor, she's still in your care. You're not helping, you're you're just doing the regular duties that any adult with a child needs to do.

Katie: 31:03

Exactly. And I don't know where that happens because I would look at Uh, you know, my husband and probably yours as well, and say, you know, they're fairly modern men. They have very strong views, particularly as dads of daughters, of equality and and all of that. But yet somehow we still end up doing the majority of just the boring shit that goes with parenting.

Madison: 31:28

Yeah, and I'm like, if I'm not, you know, doing laundry or signing her school bag or packing her school lunch or going online, they've got hot lunches at school, and it's like I'm on the calendar. What day is do we have her? What days is hot lunch? How much how much and what is it here? And what donation is due, and what school event is she needs this colored shirt for this day at school. And and it's like, sorry, I don't think he's ever done any of it, but and not because he's not a good parent, but it's like I've picked up on those tasks, and now it's just like ingrained that it's my task to do. And I think that's typical of all mothers, not just stepmothers. I do think it's just like the burden put on women, which is a whole nother thing I could get into. I don't want to fault our husbands. I know it's like you've said, they're quite like in your situation and mine, like quite modern men, but it's just kind of that way that things fall, and you don't realize it until you're kind of deep within it, and it's like, oh.

Katie: 32:23

Yeah. And then the problem is in the early days, I did loads and loads and loads of stuff. And I think because I had a son who was a similar age to my stepdaughters, right? It felt uh like it would be really mean to not do the same for them as I was doing for him. But it was really hard. And then I think as time went on, and I was trying to say to my husband, like, you need to do this, like you need you need to get dates for rehearsals in your diary. You need to do those types of things. If they didn't happen, it ends up being the kids who lose out, so then you feel really shitty, but then you're like, You're their dad, you need to had that with soccer this year because she did we he wanted her to do soccer for a few years now.

Madison: 33:09

And I said, Then if you want, I'm a wedding photographer in the summer. I'm soccer is when happens in the summer. I'm so busy. If you want her to play soccer, you need to sign her up, figure it out, look into it. She didn't play soccer the first year, she didn't play soccer the next year. And then this year she had a friend's mom who's like, Hey, is she doing soccer? And I had said to my husband, like, if you want to do soccer, you look into it. But it's her that's missing out. So then I, of course, go on and I sign her up for soccer and I get it all sorted. And I said, I put your email so the emails are coming to you, and I'm not CCing myself on the emails. So anything that happens, you need to look into. But there is that like pushback of, well, you were doing it before. So it's again like a hard, hard thing to step away from, but I still step in in those in the last hour because it's like you don't want the kid to miss out.

Katie: 33:53

Just as we're talking about this, it's really interesting because I'm thinking about my so my son that me and my husband share, our child. When I say to him, you can be responsible for everything to do with his football. I don't feel mean. I don't feel mean.

Madison: 34:10

Yeah, yeah, different, right?

Katie: 34:12

Which is again, it's such it's that weird like paradox of being a stepmom.

Madison: 34:19

Yeah, where it's not mean if it was your bio child, but it is mean if it's your stepchild because now you are this level of expected extra effort to make sure that they are accommodated and taken care of. Yeah, it's hard. And I that's even the same in the same vein, like mums with back to school, and it's like moms are like, Yes, we made it through the summer, our kids are back to school finally. And then it's like, if I say that, thank God summer's over. It's like, oh, you don't care about your stepchild? You don't want her around, you don't love her? Yeah, yeah. So it's like the same vein of like um a regular bio mum can say, say or not do pick up the pieces and let things go to dad, or say certain things. And then as soon as you've got the connotation of stepmom, it's like you say or do the same things, like I'm not gonna pick up you, you take care of soccer, you take care of that, or yay, it's finally Monday and we're doing a switch, it's like oh no, you're mean. Evil stepmum.

Katie: 35:12

Yeah, and you're not so for all the stepmums listening who like are looking forward to their house getting back, it being together. Yes, it's okay, it's it's really okay. And it's funny, like now, sometimes my stepdaughters are really into singing and drama and both very good. And when they were young, they went through this phase where they would just hum, they would hum all the time like the same songs over and over again. And and there wasn't anything wrong with the humming, but I used to find it insanely irritating. And I remember feeling really bad thinking, you you know, you must be such a horrible person, all they're doing is humming. And I never said anything about it, but I thought you're you're nicer than I am. But then this morning, my our two kids were like humming, and I was like, guys, could you just please stop doing that? And I was feeling myself, and and I'm like, Oh, like I wish I'd have known then it would be to be annoyed.

Madison: 36:06

I just give myself a lot of grace, maybe too much grace, because like our our youngest does that now, and I'm like, okay, enough with the singing of just random sounds all the time. Um if you want to sing a real song, please go ahead. I love to hear you sing, but like just I'm like, no, so overstimulating. I give myself so much grace. I'm not gonna feel bad. I'm not gonna feel bad.

Katie: 36:25

Yeah, but that's good. You should. Is um the kids in the US obsessed with K pop demons?

Madison: 36:30

Yeah, we we were meant to go to a birthday party yesterday as well. That that was the theme, but I had to go to work, so we I we didn't have to go to the birthday.

Katie: 36:39

Well, that's that's the current thing now, and it's like they sing it and they sing it, and I listen to them.

Madison: 36:44

I think this there's nothing wrong with their singing, but my god, but it's the repetitiveness of it is like, yeah, okay. And then you're driving and it's always in the back, and I'm like, okay, I'm just like trying not to crash the car and we're yeah, but it's funny because as a stepmom, like I think there'll be a lot of women listening thinking, oh shit, okay.

Katie: 37:01

So just because I find that stuff really inanely irritating, it doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

Madison: 37:06

Yeah, and you know what? The thing is, like I've said, I don't have a lot of step-mum friends with the same experiences, but I do have a lot of mum friends and really good, true friends that will validate like you're not alone because I feel that with my own bio child. And I'm like, oh blast, thank you. Yeah, just that reassurance. You know, some moms I find you can't, they're maybe not like the friendship's not as good or the bond is not as good, or maybe just the judgment, and you can't say those things because you do get a bit of the judginess, and they're like, Oh, but they're like, I love my child, my child's perfect, my child's never done anything that annoyed me ever. Yeah, really. But like you find good mom friends, and like whether they're stepmoms or bio moms, and they're like, Yeah, don't worry, you're not alone. Like, my own bio child drives me crazy too. I'm like, Okay, it's not because I don't love her, it's not because I'm a stepmom, it's because I'm a woman with a million other things on my plate. And when she just humming to herself so loudly, it's just one too many things.

Katie: 37:59

You're so right, you're so right. I said to my son last night, I was like, come on, then he's like, but it's really early to go to bed. I'm like, yes, I'm I'm done momming for the day. You can read it.

Madison: 38:10

Oh yeah, we have that. Yeah. I'm like, okay, early to bed, and that is just what it is. I'm just done.

Katie: 38:16

It sounds like a lot. So you talked about how you and ex number one had had dinners together a couple of years.

Madison: 38:23

Yeah, we've yeah, we've had um events and things together, and it's again like it was a very different experience because there was no day-to-day handoff, like no, this is what homework, this is what's closed, this is what sports is going on, where all those things with the youngest because they're young and you have all those things to talk about and and send back and forth, or we're gonna sign her up for this activity, or we're gonna do that. With teenagers, it's like we didn't have any of that because they're very independent teens. And now the middle has just gone off to university again, like she's gone somewhere four hours, five hours away. So it's like, bye. And but we still see, we still see mom because the eldest actually had a baby. So we've been to baby showers, we've been to, you know, like events like that. You're gonna see.

Katie: 39:07

I'm looking at you, obviously, people won't be able to see you, but you like I'm thinking, you're a stepgranny and you look so funny.

Madison: 39:14

I know at 31. So yeah, it's very interesting. But we do see, we do see the oldest eldest to's mom, and it's very just civil. Like, we don't have a lot of involvement. We don't I hear about, you know, they tell the stories of this happened at mom's house or this or that or that, but it's just very like that's just a person that is exists, and we are cordial, and there's not any involvement really there.

Katie: 39:39

And has their mom always been accepting of you in their life?

Madison: 39:43

Yeah, I think so because she like again, the middle one has got on with me so well, and I think that we've always been pretty lucky that way. Like, oh, I'm gonna pick her up and take her to the mall, or I'm gonna drop her off and and do things with her. And I I think that that's been appreciated as well. There's never been any animosity about it, not that I'm aware of. If there is, it's been kept to itself, which is also a nice thing. Like, we're don't we're not trying to be any best friends because we would never be best friends, but we're not also enemies, you know?

Katie: 40:11

It's just I think if there had been anything, you know, untoward, you would have seen it play out in behaviors of your stepkids.

Madison: 40:19

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think that there's always just been a very ease kind of in that. Well, not always, but there's there's always been like a from the beginning, there's been a natural kind of just hands-off of our our relationship, mom and like mom and I. We just are happy for the kids. We I get along with the kids, that's what makes things work, and um yeah.

Katie: 40:43

You you're making it sound very smooth.

Madison: 40:45

I'm wondering I don't want to make it sound smooth because I know so many people out there struggle, but I do find that it's like I just have accepted like the way that things are there. I it's just I think again, like it's never been a need to communicate. Maybe if there had been more needs to communicate, it wouldn't have been so smooth. But because they were so much older, yeah, we just didn't have like a handoff, we didn't have an exchange. Things now is just like, oh, double checking, you know, Christmas presents, like we're not buying them the same things. Or like when the eldest had the baby, you know, we we're going to the baby shower and and we're making sure we're not crossing over on our our gifts or things like that.

Katie: 41:23

I mean, it might be just that the mum has thought, like obviously many biological mums do, has thought, hey, this is you know, somebody extra who's in my kids' life. Great. You don't have to be best friends, but she's like grateful for somebody who's nice to her kids.

Madison: 41:40

And that's I I suppose that is what it is too, because I know I will say, like the middle one who we chat a lot, since she said like with the uh the youngest's mum, it wasn't necessarily like that because they were younger when she came in the picture, and they were like, you know, she tried to be inserting herself into parenting, maybe it even though they were still older, you know, there was a little more animosity between those two exes than like in our little triangle than with me. And because she was maybe more like she, you know, the middle child would say, Oh, she tried to tell me what I could wear or what I couldn't wear, and things my mom bought for me, she wouldn't let me have. And I just never felt like the need to parent them that way. They were older, they were already parented, and I'm not gonna step in and say, Oh, you can't wear this or you can't do that. It's really up to their dad to do those sorts of things. I'm not their primary caregiver. I wasn't around to make those rules. I'm not gonna try and step in and create rules. So I think that helped with the relationship with mom because I wasn't trying to take over parenting her children. Um, I was very just hands-off on the older two, which I don't know if that's good or bad, but I think it also like my age was I was like, I'm 27, I don't know how to parent teenagers, so it's not my problem.

Katie: 42:53

But but in some ways, I think that's really a gift because you know what happens time and time again, the people who have really clear ideas about how they think children should be raised, including myself, often come up against a lot of the bumps. So if you're putting into it and you're like, oh, whatever, you're their dad, you decide, that's probably gonna be a lot easier in a lot of cases. And I think because you didn't have children of your own aside from them, there was nothing for you to worry about in terms of comparison with, oh, I've got to do the same.

Madison: 43:24

Yeah, like not trying to treat them as equals, even though I mean it it's completely understandable to me. I don't have children, so it's it, I mean it's not like I'm an expert to speak on it, but I think it's completely understandable that you would treat your children differently than your stepchildren. And so if anyone listening is out there hearing that, like I think that's okay. I'm not judging you. But I do think there is a pressure to like treat them, you know, like you said, like there is no comparison when you don't have your own biochildren to compare to. We didn't have that pressure or that situation in it. So I think it was just semi-smooth sailing. Trust me, I had my own opinions and maybe you shouldn't let them do this or maybe you shouldn't let them do that. But I was mostly just would tell my husband, like, oh, I don't agree, but not my problem.

unknown: 44:06

Yeah.

Katie: 44:07

I mean, that's very much um where I think a lot of women move to. And I mean, I say it to my biological kids all the time the things that you hate me telling you to do, by the way, I also hate telling you to do.

Madison: 44:19

I know, that's it. And I'm like, I'm not, you know, I don't ever want to make her resent like any of them resent me, but it's like I say things out of love and care, and that's where everything I think most parents come from. It's like it's coming out of a place of love and care and concern for you and not trying to exert my power, quote unquote, or or control you or anything like that. Even with the older two, it's like, oh, I don't like that you did let them do this or they can do that, or I think you know there's differences in our even now, still like they are adults, but they're still young adults and they're still in need of parenting guidance and direction, as we all were at that age. And I have my opinions, I share them with my husband, and I don't need to try and just insert my way into presiding over them and and their lives. But the youngest, of course, I'm like, no, I have lots of opinions on how I'd like her to be raised now.

Katie: 45:08

Well, is she with you half the time now?

Madison: 45:10

She is, yeah. So we're Monday to Monday, she's with me half the time. I do all the school runs, I do the packing of lunches, I do most of the dinners, I do the all her school stuff. It works for us. I do like I said, I do think there's way or places now that we're looking at and kind of reevaluating where I could maybe hand some of those responsibilities back to dad. But it works for us and she's with me often and all the time, really. It feels like when that even though it's 50, 50 uh percent like the weeks she's not with us, I feel like I'm I'm still mentally doing all her school prep and her play date prep and her calendar prep. And so, you know, it's she I have a lot of say in what she does and doesn't do and it sounds like it's been relatively smooth for you.

Katie: 45:53

And at 31, like I'm gonna sound like I'm right, granny now, but like you're still so young. Yeah. What does the next 20 years look like?

Madison: 46:01

Oh my gosh, we um we love to travel, so we're our our focus on life is like let's travel as much as we can. We we don't plan on having children of our own. So we do have this nice, you know, instant childcare where she can go to another house, even if she's we're traveling during some of our time. Like we have that coming up in October, and you know, just sent her mom a message like, hey, we're planning to be away. We're happy to find someone for her to stay with, like my sister or my parents, his parents, his sister. Or, you know, if you're happy to take her, then we can do that too. It's very flexible, which is lovely that way. We've got the best of both worlds, and I think that's why it worked too. Like with us dating when she was so young and and coming into like this family when she was so young. I didn't feel like I needed to have children of my own because I was doing the child rearing and raising with her. Um, I was like, Yeah, I'm I'm good to not like because I was kind of back and forth before that on kids. Um, and I'm like, I'm good to to to just raise her, and then we still get our travel time, we get to go do that. We're still raising her. I mean, she's still so young, like, you know, another 10 years and then she'll be off. But like 10 years is there's a lot that can happen in 10 years, I suppose. A lot has happened in five years. Yeah. I feel sometimes it's just we're getting through each day as it comes because sometimes it feels like you're just in the trenches, and other times it feels like things are great and you know, smooth, but it's it's a mix of both, truly.

Katie: 47:23

And what do you rely on to get you through the tough spots?

Madison: 47:27

Knowing I have a vacation coming up is is all I need. I love that. I love that. I think that it was hard when um the eldest had a baby. She moved back home with us actually. So she does live home with us now and the baby. And it was kind of a hard adjustment because I was like, Oh, I really value our our off weeks. And I like those are really can get me through as much as I love having our youngest here. Like sometimes it's like I just need to get to our our week, get through this week. But it was a hard adjustment having um our home just be not empty on those weeks. So now she's back with this baby. So it's it was a hard adjustment, and I didn't maybe handle things as well as I could have, but learning from it, trying to learn from it, we still get a lot of our own alone time. I mean, it's not like we're all just sat in a room together all the time. So, but it was like, oh, I really look forward to our weeks on our own. And we still get a fair bit of alone time. I look forward to just like sometimes when it's just me and him and we're going away on vacation, and that is something to look forward to. Get us through till then.

Katie: 48:27

Yeah, amazing. Well, look, Madison, it's been so nice to talk to you. You as well. Really appreciate all of your kind of insights and just a reminder for stepmoms that any of those uncomfortable feelings that they're feeling or being dragged down in the trenches, like that's motherhood.

Madison: 48:46

Yeah, no one's escaping that. It's not, it's not, I mean, that comes with its own special challenges, but uh no one's escaping the the dragging down and the the roller coaster that it is, right? There's ups and there's downs.

Katie: 48:59

If you can't cope with another sound of K-pop demon hunters, you are not alone.

Madison: 49:03

Absolutely. Shut I give you permission to shut it off, send them to bed early.

Katie: 49:08

Alexa, turn the volume down. Alexa, turn the volume.

Madison: 49:10

Oh, Alexa's not working anymore. So sorry. Yes, that's what I need to try. Just unplug, just unplug.

Katie: 49:21

Madison, thank you for sharing your story with such honesty, heart, and humour. It was a joy to chat with you. If this episode resonated with you, please take a moment to rate, review, or subscribe wherever you listen. It helps Stepmum Space reach more incredible women like you. I'm so grateful to every listener who's been part of Series 7. Your support means the world. We'll be back in just a couple of weeks with a brand new series packed with more real stories, expert insights, and Stepmum Solidarity. Please hit the follow button and you'll be notified as soon as the new season drops. In the meantime, follow us on the socials at Stepmum Space, and if you've got a story to share, I would love to hear from you. You can find all the contact details in the show notes. Until then, keep showing up, keep recalibrating, and feel free to tell Alexa to stop. Take care, lots of love.