Episode 59: Hostile Exes, Clashing House Rules — and an Ours Baby

High-conflict exes, clashing house rules and an ours baby — today’s episode goes deep into the reality of stepfamily life. If you’re a stepmum feeling overwhelmed, anxious or alone, this one will speak straight to you.

Katie talks with Jane (name changed), a stepmum navigating secrecy for safety, court cases, three stepchildren, and a new baby, all while trying to build a stable home anchored in values and routines. Jane shares how belonging grows slowly, how she built trust through small consistent cues (hair plaits, dinners together, practical help), and how she learned to hold boundaries without absorbing the emotion of hostile messages.

They explore loyalty binds, two-home rules, the pressure of a contact schedule that takes every weekend, and the emotional load of loving someone with a complicated history.

In this episode:

• Loving your partner and the past they carry
• Secrecy, safety and contact from a distance
• Gradual attachment to stepchildren
• Belonging cues (plaits, shared meals, helping)
• Clashing values across two homes
• Living by a custody schedule + protecting couple time
• Boundaries with a hostile ex
• Sharing hard truths with kids
• Welcoming an ours baby + forming new identity

Perfect for:
Stepmums in high-conflict situations • overwhelmed by instability • new stepmums • anyone struggling with boundaries, anxiety or slow-growing attachment.

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Transcript

Katie South: 0:04

Hello, I'm Katie and this is Stepmum Space, the judgment-free zone where we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of Stepmum Life. So whether you've been a Stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the Stepmum in your life a bit better, this is the place for you. When you fall in love with a brilliant man who also comes with children and a high conflict ex, life doesn't always look like the fairy tale you imagined. Today I'm speaking with Jane, not her real name. A stepmum navigating loyalty binds, court battles across borders, and the very real work of building trust with three stepchildren. Plus, welcoming a new baby into the mix. We talk about hostile co-parenting, different values across two homes, creating boundaries that actually hold, and the slow, steady way love grows in stepfamilies. If you've ever thought, am I the only one who feels like this? This one's for you. Hi Jane, how are you tonight?

Jane: 1:12

Hi, I'm really well, thank you. A little bit nervous, actually. I'm looking forward to having a chat. I feel like it's gonna be a little therapy session almost.

Katie South: 1:19

That's what a lot of people say, actually, that they just feel good getting everything off their chest in a judgment-free zone, as we always say. So don't be nervous. So, do you want to start by telling me a little bit about how you and your husband met? Sure. Uh we met on Tinder.

Jane: 1:34

I had this whole idea of who he was based on how he looked. And as soon as I met him, I could tell just by how he walked in to the coffee shop where we were that he was actually a really honest, really humble guy. He's he's a great guy. I had done a little bit of poking around his social media before we met. So I knew that there were kids involved. I knew that there was an ex-wife, and I waited for him to tell me. And I remember, and we still talk about this now on our first date, when I said, Is there any chance you're gonna go back to your wife? I don't want to get involved in somebody who's not really a hundred percent out of her their previous relationship. And he was like, There is no way. And as our time together has unfolded, yeah, that's become really clear that there's no way that he would go back there. But our relationship flourished and it has been really tricky. There have been some really, really difficult times along the way. But I was thinking about this today and thinking I love him for who he is, and a massive part of who he is is because of what he's come through. So it's kind of a big, you know, he's it's a parcel. And while my relationship with him is one that I always kind of aspired to have a really good, equal relationship with somebody that I loved and who loved me back, and you know, we just had really good supportive relationship, but also to have three kids as well and a hostile ex-wife was not something that I dreamed of when I was a girl, thinking about, you know, who would I marry. But you know what? It's it's all part and parcel of it, and it's made my life really interesting. And I've learned a lot about myself.

Katie South: 3:05

It's funny, isn't it? Because you think a lot about who who you might meet, and when you're younger, you like envisage what your life might be like. And even when you think about difficult things that you might go through in a relationship, you kind of never think about some of the things that might come up if you meet someone with children.

Jane: 3:23

One of the really difficult things, I think being in a relationship with somebody who's got uh a challenging ex and children who are kind of caught in the middle is it's almost like a chronic illness, you know, where when you first become ill, people are really interested and they want to know who how you are and you know how things are going. But the longer it goes on, people get less interested. So I was very aware that you know, there was quite a lot of conflict at the start of our relationship with his ex-wife. And I was very aware that I had become a broken record with my friends, none of whom had been through this. So I had nobody who kind of understood where I was coming from. And I can remember somebody saying to me, Well, you love him, so you must love his kids. And I thought, well, actually, it doesn't go like that. I have a really good relationship with my stepkids. I do love them, but you have to grow to love them. It just is not like being a biological mum when your baby comes along and you think, Oh my goodness, this is the most amazing thing. It's a real gradual process.

Katie South: 4:22

I always say, like, the more acknowledgement we can give to that, the easier it is. Because so many women will come to me and say, you know, I feel really, really guilty because I don't have the same love for my stepchild that I have for my biological child. And sometimes you think, well, you've only known this kid three or four years, you know, it's it's that love grows and it shows up in ways that aren't always the same with a biological child, but it takes time and it doesn't always come straight away. You mentioned a couple of times uh the hostile ex-wife. Can you share a little bit more about that?

Jane: 4:53

Well, I did think about this and think I have to be careful not to get down a rabbit hole because actually I don't really have a relationship with her, and I'm quite happy with that. So without getting into too many specifics, it was a very abusive relationship that my husband and his ex-wife had. It was emotionally abusive, physically abusive, and it in ways that I think we are both still coming to terms with sexually abusive as well, and very, very controlling. And she continues to try to exert that especially financial control over him and therefore over our family. So even at the start, we met, we started dating, and he made it very clear that this was to be in secret because she was volatile and there was concern over what would happen if she knew that he was dating someone. You know, she did figure it out at times when he was dating people before me, and there were repercussions there in terms of not getting access to the kids. You know, that was the easiest control that she had was to either take away the kids or just land them on them and say, You deal with this now. But I can remember being at the Christmas market one year and we were walking through the Christmas market and holding hands, and immediately he dropped my hand, and I thought, Oh, what's this? What's this? And it was because her sister was there because I live in quite a small place. A lot of people know each other and are interconnected. So we just had to be so careful. And even right the way through, we went through a number of court cases. So my husband is not from Northern Ireland, his ex-wife is. They had kind of bounced between countries for a while and then settled where he's from, and then the relationship was difficult. So they said, right, she wanted to come back home to be closer to her family. They came back home, the relationship was still difficult, and he said, Right, this is not working for any of us. And he left. I think actually the way he tells it was she had told him to leave so many times, and he he never did. And then there was one time that was just, you know, the straw that broke the camel's back. And a few months after they split, she took the kids back to the country that he's from, where they had previously been living, without consulting him about it, without asking his permission. So we had been dating at that point, I think four months. So we're still in that really early stage of is he my boyfriend? Do I call him that? How often do I text him a day? Those kind of things. But then all of a sudden you're like, well, actually, my kids are on the other side of the world. And you're dealing with somebody who is a very, very good father. And that's again one of the things I really love about him is he is really, really devoted to his kids. But having to deal with the fact that he wasn't seeing them, they had been taken away. Then the court process started. So you're almost in the honeymoon period, but in hell as well. Yeah. And I think the thing is, like he has gone through a lot of counseling. So he deals with things really, really well. So you kind of almost like you forget that he's been through so much because he is able to manage and kind of rationalise out. And he always thinks, you know, don't give the other person the power of your emotion. Whereas I was still like, oh my goodness, what has she done now? You know, this is terrible. And I was really angry and upset on his behalf for a lot of things. And that still happens. I get upset for him. I feel the feelings for him when he's like, actually, I'm okay. Just let's just let this wash over us.

Katie South: 7:59

So she had taken the children back to his home country that she had originally wanted to leave. What happened then? So he he wasn't able to see them?

Jane: 8:08

He wasn't able to see them. It was Skype calls and that those were Skype calls at her, whatever suited her mood. I like I can remember at one stage being we had gone away for the weekend and he was supposed to have a call with the kids, and he did it from I think he did it from his car because he didn't want her to know that he wasn't at home, because he didn't want her to join the dots to know that he wasn't at home because he was away for the weekend with with somebody. And she absolutely went bananas and was like, if you can't call from your house, then you're not speaking to the kids, that's it, and like cut off the call. Or like the kids would try to call him on Skype and she would work out what was going on, and you could just hear her shouting in the background and then shutting down the computer. You know, she she really her idea was she would move back to the country that he was from and he would follow her and they would be a family again, I think is what she wanted, but that was never going to happen. There was an international court case started then to retrieve the kids back to Northern Ireland. I say we throughout all of this. It was him. I was in the background being angry and annoyed at everything. He was the one doing all the practical things and doing all the court stuff because I was still a secret. Yeah, we had to prove that the kids had been taken without his consent. So that went through. That was a really difficult time. Was that quite easy to prove then? There was a lot of evidence gathering, like the kind of the messages back and forth between them, and I'm trying to even think because there were three court cases within a really, really short space of time. This was no honeymoon period. No, no, it was not. It was not. And again, it's like you're taking all this on. I've never been through anything like this before. Um, I want to support this guy who I think is actually a great person, and that's why I'm with him. But I had no kind of outlet to share because nobody else had any insight into any of this. They were all just kind of like, wow, this is insane. Okay, so what are we doing for lunch today? You know, the judge ruled that the kids had been taken without his consent. She was ordered to bring the kids back to Northern Ireland, at which point, I mean, things got really, really murky at that stage. The police actually came to his door and said, There's been a death threat against you. So you need to leave. So he had to move out of where he was. Now we can't prove that, but you'd have a fair idea where it came from.

Katie South: 10:17

Oh my god. How old are the children at this point?

Jane: 10:20

Nine, five, and a baby. Like he missed the baby's first steps because the baby was in another country. So, for clarification, the baby came along when things were really, really bad and they split soon after he was born. He was under a year old when they split, so he's never really known his parents to be together. So they then came home. That was all very hostile. She launched a court case to legally take them back to his home country. Which again, you know, the conversations we were having, apart from the fact of, you know, okay, the kids are home, he'd been he hadn't seen them for nine months, which I as a mum now I cannot imagine what that was like. And to only have contact with your kids when someone else who doesn't really like you and is very cross at you says it's okay. Yeah, hadn't seen the kids for nine months, got them home, and then she wanted to move back again legally. She made, you know, a legal bid, and we were having conversations like if this is successful, if her bid is successful and they all go back there, where where does he go? Where do I go? And the conclusion that we came to was he couldn't be without his kids, which again is one of the reasons that I love him because he's a great dad, but I couldn't drop everything, you know, my career, my family, my friends, everything, and move so so far away. When again at that stage, as you said, it was still the early days. I don't think it we'd even been going out. Maybe we have been going out a year at that stage, but you know, you still have no guarantee that things are going to work out at that point. So there was that which was denied. So it was really it was in the kids' best interest to stay in Northern Ireland and maintain a relationship with their dad. And then almost simultaneously, it was a custody arrangement, and that all went through the courts. So, as I said, in the space of a year, there were three court cases, and that was probably about the first year that we were going out. So I remember talking to my manager at work at the time, and she just said, You must really love him. And you think, Well, yeah, yeah, I do. Because it is a lot and it continues to be a lot, but I think I have learned probably from him how to deal with things a bit better and how to pick your battles.

Katie South: 12:31

After that first year, when you've kind of had all these court cases, were you able to no longer be a secret at that point?

Jane: 12:39

Yeah, and that was one of the other like difficult things was his court team told him not to mention me in court. So it only really came out whenever um in around the time of the custody arrangement, you know, when that was finished, it was like PS, I have a girlfriend. Um, which I I mean I think she suspected, you know, knowing women, we always do have a bit of a and we have a bit of a feel for things. So I do think she suspected that he was with somebody. But there was a big deal made about me and how the oldest kid wasn't comfortable with living with me because pretty much as the custody arrangement was solidified, we revealed that we'd bought a house. It was a new build, so we were waiting for the house to be built. And then it was all, oh, well, he doesn't feel comfortable living with your girlfriend, she shouldn't be there when the kids are spending overnights, all those kind of things. And I want to meet her, so I was like, absolutely no problem. I will give her her place as the kid's mum, you know, and if we can relate woman to woman, that's really the best case scenario because I have no direct beef with her. Her beef's with my husband, you know, and I think if we can rise above that and realize actually what we're both there for is the welfare of the kids, that's optimum. She never, never took me up on the offer to meet.

Katie South: 13:50

As you were talking, I was thinking this sounds like quite a pipe dream of, you know, let's meet woman to woman with the kids' best interests in heart. Because obviously that's what everyone would strive for. Um, and I think there's many a stepmum amongst us, myself included, who have tried that. And we love to think it's gonna work. Just as you were talking, I was thinking, if this if this works, I'm gonna be shocked. Absolutely did not work. At that point, you've bought this house together, you're living together full-time, the children were what, like 11, 7, 4 years old, and you guys had been together three years. What sort of relationship did you have with the children at that point?

Jane: 14:30

So, probably not much with the oldest one because he was the one who knew most about what had gone on and was probably the most conflicted about, you know, these they talk about like loyalty binds to his mum. I didn't have much experience with boys around that age, so I didn't really know how to relate to him as well. You know, he wasn't interested in the same things I was interested in. Whereas the girl in the middle, I did her hair, I had a dog that she liked. We liked the same things. I could be a girl with her, and that was always, and that's still how I relate to her. You know, she'll still come down and say, Will you plait my hair for me tonight? Or I've got this stain on my jumper, can you get it out? Because that's one of my roles in her life is to get stains out of her clothes. But I mean, in a way, that's quite nice that she comes to me for these things, you know. And I love when she comes down and says, Can you plait my hair for me, please? I'm like, Absolutely. This is our, this is something that I can do for you that dad can't do for you. This is something that I bring to the table here.

Katie South: 15:24

I think there's something really important as well about belonging and feeling needed. And when a stepchild goes outwardly to a stepmom and says, Can you do this for me? It's almost like that validation of I need you, you're good at something, you matter.

Jane: 15:40

Absolutely. And at that point, when she asks me, or when any of them asks me for something, I will literally drop whatever I am doing because I'm like, Yes, this is what I want. I want you to come to me. I want you to feel like I am someone that you come to that can help you or give you solutions. I I want to be that role. It's difficult, especially when they are living in our house for part of the part of the week and in their mom's house for part of the week, which are very, very different households. Their dad and I, I think had quite similar upbringing. We have very similar values, whereas the values in mom's house are very different. And that causes a lot of difficulty. And you feel like you're having the same conversations every weekend with them, you know, and even small things. When we first moved into the house four years ago, I remember they couldn't cope with the fact that we were having family dinners because they didn't do that. They couldn't understand why it was important as a family to come together and sit there and chat over our meal. So we had to really say, right, this is this is a line. This is what we do every night when we're in the house. We do that in this house. And they've got better. Like before, they used to like completely freak out and didn't want to sit at the table. You know, as soon as somebody was finished, they jump up and it's like, no, we can sit here and chat over things and chat over our day. Like I remember as well my stepdaughter, and she was, she would have been eight. She didn't know how to use a knife and fork. I grew up with really strict table manners, so that's a real bugbear for me. So we had to, and this sounds ridiculous that at eight years old we had to teach her how to use a knife and fork. It's still not great, but yeah, it's kind of like, okay, we'll pick your battles. I'd rather have them all together and want to bring their day to the table. Then right, can you use your knife for that? Or this is in the wrong hand, or you know, those little things which I guess were big for me as a kid, but in this house aren't really as relevant. My parents are super hot on table manners, whereas you have to really think, right, what's the bigger picture here? Yes, it would be nice if everybody had nice table manners, but at the end of the day, do I want them to go away after their weekend with us and think all dad and stepmom did was pick at little things because I don't do them right in their house.

Katie South: 18:56

It's such a fine balance and it's so difficult. I was laughing inside as you said that because my husband is so hot on holding your knife and fork in the correct way and cutting in the correct way and putting things on in the correct way. It matters to me that people sit around and eat at the table, but not to the extent that he does. And one of our children, I don't know why it's only one of them, but the knife and fork thing is still an issue. I'll be like, mate, you're like having a roast dinner. Why are you eating the carrots with your fingers? Like we're literally sitting around the table. Anyway, I've lost my train of thought now. Do you want to talk a little bit more about other things that were different between the houses?

Jane: 19:31

Yeah, I mean, even little things like so he and I would put a lot of value on education. We have both worked really hard to get good jobs, have good careers, and we always think if you're able to have a good education that opens doors. And that's not the same in mum's house. There's not the same focus or intention. Like it's okay to leave school to go and get your hair cut, which he and I were both appalled at, but it's just that priorities are very different. You know, we were also brought up that if you commit to something, you see it through. Whereas at mum's house, if you don't really feel like going to football practice tonight, you don't have to go. That's okay. Or you can take up something and then just drop it. I know that there's a bit where kids need to feel something out, feel like if it's the right fit for them, but just it's like it's too cold, I can't be bothered, or I'd rather sit here and chat to my mates or game or whatever, we're then dealing with, or I am actually dealing with my husband, being like, well, this is really frustrating because I want my kids to be able to learn to commit to things. And because there's only one parent who has that value, the other parent has a different value, the kids are really conflicted.

Katie South: 20:46

Yeah, that's it's really difficult as well. And then if you've got something like sport or even drama or anything like that, you're you're part of a team or you're part of a cast, and you you owe it, I believe, to the other people in your team to show up for training or to show up to rehearsals or to do those sorts of things. We definitely share that value of once you commit to something, you do it. And obviously, if you're ill, you can't, or if you decide, you know, you don't want to do that sport anymore, then fine, you can leave at the end of the season. But I can imagine that's really I have been very lucky actually in that with my son that I share with my ex, whoever's with him will take him to whatever he's got on. And we both very much feel that that's important. I think it's so difficult when you're in a situation where both the parents have got such different values. You then also feel like, how do you hold space for that child's lived experience in the other home whilst also guiding them in the right way?

Jane: 21:44

Yeah, and I mean we talked about that a couple of weeks ago whenever one of them didn't want to go to football practice. And again, it was just this, you know, this conversation that we're having quite a lot at the minute about when values are different in different homes, what is the impact and how frustrating that is for my husband. He wants to provide opportunities for his kids, but you need two supportive parents to provide some of those opportunities, and it doesn't always work.

Katie South: 22:07

It's similar with what you were saying about education, actually, because I I realized I seem to end up quoting my mother a lot on this podcast without really realizing how much she's instilled in me. But she always used to say to me about education, if you've got the opportunity to get a good education, get it, because it will give you choice. I remember her saying to me about like exam results and everything, she's like, Yes, you might never use a Bunsen burner again in your life, but getting good grades gives you choices in life, and those choices are important, and then you can decide what you want to do with them. And I think, God, what that bloody brilliant advice of her, because she's right.

Jane: 22:41

Yes, there is a different emphasis on different things. There might not be that same emphasis on education.

Katie South: 22:47

And the thing is, even if you look at education, I don't even really mean go and get a first class honours degree from a red brick uni. You know, now we all have to stay in education until we're 18. So whatever you choose to do, work hard at it. It doesn't have to be some academic genius. If you've got a Saturday job in a supermarket or you've got a job at a hairdresser's sweeping hair off the floor, show up, work hard. For me, it's like education is obviously important, but not everybody is an academic learner, and that's absolutely fine. But whatever you are going to do, I really believe that you should try hard.

Jane: 23:27

Yeah, yeah. Same here. I think what we're navigating now is how do you get that message through without it becoming a lecture every weekend? Because you want the kids to come to your house and enjoy their time there and not feel like they've been told off or that what they're doing elsewhere is wrong and that we've got it right. Because I will tell you, there are so many things that I have learned that you know, I always would be able to be quite set in my ways. And then my husband came along and he was like, Well, your way is good, but here's another way, and it's no, I'm not saying it's better, it's just different. And I had to really kind of restructure my brain to think, okay, well, my way is not always the best way. And I think that's the same with the kids. There are just two different ways of living, two different ways of being, and neither is right or wrong, they're just different. And the difficulty is that we have these kids who are moving between these two houses every week, and they have to learn to adapt. And I will say, regardless of what they've been through, they're great kids. Every time we go out somewhere, people are always so complimentary when we have friends around. They always say, like, how polite they are, how how chatty they are, how engaging they are. They are great kids. And but then you add on that extra layer of what they've been through, and they're pretty remarkable. They know that mum and dad don't get on. You know, they've seen mum come out and shout an F and blind to dad. They have heard mum shout down the phone to dad. Um, actually, my stepdaughter said, was it last weekend or the weekend before? She said, Mum might not really show it to us, but she really doesn't like you. And I thought, yeah, we know, we know. But also, how is my stepdaughter picking this up? Like, what what is mum doing that she's picking this up? Because that's not good for my stepdaughter to feel that either. They know there's tension between their parents, they know that. And I can't imagine how difficult that is for them as well. What like bought that out of her? I don't even know. I mean, she's 11. Some things just come out, but I don't know why she said it.

Katie South: 25:26

She must feel really comfortable with you to be able to just voice it like that.

Jane: 25:31

Yeah, well, that's good. My husband is very much he wants the kids to be open with them, he's very open with them about things, and he, you know, is trying to like nurture that with them. I hope that they do feel that they can open up and say things like this. And I mean, she said that to him, and I was in the kitchen as well, and I was like laughing behind my hands because I thought, well, we know that mum doesn't like that, we know that, everybody knows that. It's not a secret. How do you respond to that? I think he tried to reason it out and say, Well, when you feel like someone has wronged you, you can be quite cross at them, and that's potentially how mum's feeling. And then my stepdaughter said, But mum's got her boyfriend. Why is she still cross at you? We're like, out of the mouths of babes.

Katie South: 26:18

So mum has a boyfriend, any change in her behaviour?

Jane: 26:23

So, yeah, I think she has chilled a bit, um, and he seems to be really good. The kids, he, I think, has been a positive influence. Like, again, I don't have a relationship with him, neither does my husband, but the kids do, and the kids like him. So, there you go. That's a bonus.

Katie South: 26:37

And throughout all of this, the kids have managed to develop a good relationship with you, even though they're fully aware that mum isn't very happy with you and your husband.

Jane: 26:48

Do you know? It's funny because I said, like, I don't have a relationship with mum, but I don't get the impression that she says much negative about me. As I said, like her beef is with my husband, it's not with me. She sent me a baby present when our baby was born. And I text her and said, Thanks very much. That's really kind of you. But you know, I get this nice version of her, but then I also see the text she sends my husband, and I'm like, Do you think I don't see those? Do you think he doesn't tell me? Because I know, I know a lot. At one stage, my husband and I, we had a baby. Um, she's a toddler, she's great. Kid big kids love her. She is probably. I always said like us getting married was the best thing we did in terms of stability for our family. I think the baby was the best thing we did because although the big kids were horrified, and when I say horrified, I mean lying on the floor screaming when we told them I was having a baby, they were really, really upset. They love the baby so much, so much. Like it is beautiful to see.

Katie South: 27:46

We found that in our family with our first child, everybody just adored him. And it I feel like it equalized all the children in some way because everybody had somebody that they were genetically linked to, for want of a better phrase. So it can do wonders. But you said they didn't take to the news initially. No.

Jane: 28:07

I mean, my stepdaughter was very like she was very up for the idea of us getting married. She was a bridesmaid, she was really into it, you know. So I wanted to make her feel included. Then when we got pregnant, had the 12-week scan, we're like, right, before we tell anyone, we need to tell kids. So we told them over dinner one night, oh, this is actually hilariously awkward. So we set the table for dinner and we set an extra place at the dinner table. And they were like, Who's this for? Who's this for? Is this for our cousin? Is she coming round? So we ate dinner, and while we were eating dinner, they kind of forgot that we'd set another table, another place at the table. So then at the end, my husband was like, So that other knife and fork? And they're like, Oh yeah, oh yeah, we forgot about that. And he was like, We're having a baby. And the oldest boy just put his head on the kitchen table, like it was the worst news he'd ever heard. I was sitting beside him and I put my hand on his shoulder just as a kind of a comfort, and he just looked and went, Don't touch me. And like he's not like that at all. And it was the first time I'd ever really seen him be like angry towards me. My stepdaughter, she lay down on the floor and cried and screamed. She was raging, and then the youngest one, he kind of didn't know where to go. He was picking up vibes all over the place, and the vibe he got was okay, those two aren't pleased, so I shouldn't be pleased either. So he could and cried too, but I think he was just crying to kind of like jump on the bandwagon. When we actually talked it out, what she was upset about was because the baby would live with us all the time. You know, the baby would have a mum and dad that lived together, and that's what upset her, which broke my heart. But that is horrendous to think that that is where her brain went, that we would love the baby more because the baby would be with us all the time and the baby would have a better life. That's what she said is the baby's gonna have a better life than me. It's awful to think that at that age she has that going on in her head. We didn't talk about it a lot, we just kind of let them gradually warm up to it. We put one of the pictures, the scan pictures on the fridge, and every so often somebody would go and have a wee look at it. One of the things we got was an app on the phone, like a baby name app, and it was like Tinder for baby names. So when they would come over again, they would do that. And especially my stepdaughter, she loved that. Yeah, we didn't let her choose the baby name.

Katie South: 30:24

How did that feel for you? Because your first baby with your husband, obviously, like massively exciting time, probably quite nervous telling the kids, but I'm guessing you didn't really expect that reaction. So, how did you feel about it all?

Jane: 30:39

I was really shocked because for a while my stepdaughter had been asking for a baby, so I thought she's gonna be delighted, and she was not. And then it it made me so stressed then because I thought, am I upsetting these kids even more? And then, as I said, as the pregnancy progressed and they got more on board, and we were all talking, you know, oh, was the baby gonna be a boy or a girl or boy or a girl? And it was my stepdaughter. She at one stage she wanted it to be both, and I said I would really prefer it if the baby wasn't both. At this stage. So I ended up having an emergency section. Oh, she wanted a boy before literally at my due date. She was like, I want a boy, I want to be the only girl in the house. And when they lifted the baby out of me and handed her to my husband, and he said, It's a girl, my first thought was, What's my stepdaughter going to think? She's going to be really upset. Which again, you think, as a new mum, you know, you see all these pictures of mums with their babies after their C-section and they're looking all kinds of bedraggled, but they've got a baby on them and it's beautiful. And you don't think, Oh, I'm going to be thinking my stepdaughter's going to have a tantrum because she's going to be displaced as the only girl in the house. But as I said, it turned out really well, and she has been a real unifier, and they everybody just loves her. Best thing we ever did.

Katie South: 32:01

That's amazing. So, what what is your custody arrangement?

Jane: 32:05

So we have the kids every weekend, Friday 6 p.m. to Sunday, 6 p.m., and then we have them on a Wednesday, three to seven. So my husband does the school pickup across town because they live about a 40-minute drive away from us. So he does a school pickup across town at now, three different schools, brings them home, makes them dinner, does the homeworks, and then drives them back to mum's house. So it's a pretty manic Wednesday. Meanwhile, I'm at work because I don't arrive home from work until quarter past six. And I literally arrive home, say, Hi everyone, how was your day? What homework have you got? And then they go, right, we're leaving. So it's literally we maybe have like 10 minutes. And I would think this is really common with so many blended families, is your life revolves around your custody agreement and people coming and going. And that is our life. Every weekend. Did you say they're with you every weekend? Every weekend, yeah. That's quite unusual. Isn't it? So my husband wanted 50-50. He did not get 50-50, but you know what? We're not that far off. 50-50, to be honest, when you think there's seven days in a week and they're with us Friday evening to Sunday evening and part of a Wednesday. This was their mum's idea. She set this up. And I can't work out whether it was set up to probably in equal parts to punish him and make sure he couldn't have a social life, but also to make sure that she could.

Katie South: 33:26

I find it very strange that any parent, male or female, would not want to spend some weekend time with their children. Yes. You know what it's like. School nights, weeknights, you're you're taxiing, you're chefing, you're washing up, you're doing laundry, you're just a general dog's body. And you might get to eat. I mean, I think in the week we probably eat dinner as a family maybe twice if we're lucky, just because everyone's all over the place in different times. So I can't imagine, uh, and you do hear it sometimes, but somebody not wanting any weekend time with their children.

Jane: 34:01

Look, I find it strange, but at the end of the day, that's something that she will have to reconcile herself with, that that's what she wanted, and that's what she got.

Katie South: 34:11

How have you found it then, as a new mum, and you've got your family of three, but you don't get that much time to be that family of three?

Jane: 34:19

We really get very little time together. And even now, so we're coming up to Christmas, and I would like the three of us to go and see Santa. And we looked at trying to do it on a weekday that we would have to take time off work to go and do that, which wasn't gonna work. And in the end, I think we've just well, I know we have because I've booked it, I've booked Santa, and we're just gonna have to go the three of us, take whatever kids want to come to the Santa area with us, but it's just the three of us are gonna go and see Santa. But yet there's not there's not that opportunity to be a family of three. So I try to protect or try to kind of reinforce as my husband that things like bank holidays are us time, which is difficult because generally the big kids' mum will want us to have the big kids on bank holidays quite often. So there's a bit of pushback there. But you know, with everything like that, where we're trying to set a boundary and protect our time together, if she's not getting what she wants, there's pushback, there's anger there. And so every every time we do kind of saying, Well, no, actually, this is not happening, or in the very odd occasion that we have booked a weekend away or a holiday, it's always comes with like an edging of I know there's going to be conflict around this. And that's really difficult because you kind of it makes you not want to do things. And like my my love language is going out for dinner, going out for brunch, going away on road trips, going to the weekend, going to my parents' holiday home. And we just we haven't been this year because part of me doesn't want to suggest it because I get so stressed at knowing that you know, my husband's sitting in the chair beside me and his phone's pinging because it and it's angry messages from her because he said, actually, we want to take a weekend off, or not a weekend off, because that sounds like it's a punishment, but we we want to go away for a weekend, or we have plans that bank holiday. So it's not gonna work. Like it's always just in the back of my mind that no matter what we plan to do, if somebody else has the plan and they want to use us as glorified babysitters, there's going to be tension there. And we've had conversations about how I deal with that. Like I would have a real physical reaction whenever I know she's in contact and it's angry. I mean, there are nights I've lain awake and I'm replaying things in my head. So he knows that and he knows I get quite anxious about that. So, you know, we talk about well, do we only share limited information? But then I also need to know what's going on in my house. You know, I need to know who's coming and going or what the arrangements are. You know, I need to know do I need to lift dinner out for four people or six people or who's where? So that doesn't always work, limiting the amount of information that that you're told, but it's I guess one way of managing things.

Katie South: 37:13

Yeah, and also when you're in that situation where you're not wanting to plan things because of the anticipation of the backlash or the uproar, it's a very common place that stepmums get to, and then you suddenly realize, well, hang on a minute, you've taken a lot of the joy out of your own life because of the implications that come up when you try and do the things that you love, and that's really sad.

Jane: 37:40

Well, even like next weekend, one of my good friends, it's her baby's christening, and we've all been invited, our group of friends, and I've just said, Yeah, the baby and I will be there. So all my other friends are bringing their husbands. It doesn't work for us, so I'll be there without my husband, and I would really like him to be there with me. My friendship group has had a lot of big birthdays this year, and again, my husband's not been there because I perceive it to be too difficult to try and get a night off. It was also made clear to us a few years ago that it would not be acceptable to have a babysitter, so we don't go out at the weekends, or like I go out, but he's at home with all the kids. That doesn't feel right either.

Katie South: 38:16

But realistically, what could she actually do? Withhold the kids. Withhold the kids. But if you have a court order, presumably she can't do that.

Jane: 38:26

She can. She would need to breach the court order numerous times quite significantly for it to be recalled to court. And here's the thing about court: court is expensive. It is expensive in terms of your emotions and in terms of your finances. I have a friend who has a husband who's got two kids from previous marriage, and her baby's the same age as my baby. Her custody agreement is they have them for the same number of nights, but they have them every other weekend and a night during the week, right? And I was like, here, look what they've got going on. That means they've got a free weekend. But you see, in order to do that, we'd have to go back to court. Do I want to go back to court? Do I want to put my husband through that stress so that he can not see his kids every weekend? I mean, he's going to resent me for that. And I'm going to resent everybody because I'm going to get really, really stressed out and it's going to hit our finances. You know, you have to kind of weigh things up. And I think also my husband is really good at saying, stop looking at the negatives here. Let's look at the positives. The positives are the kids are in our house every weekend. So I have a really good relationship with them. They have a great relationship with the baby. My husband's taking them to the whatever sporting events are on, so we know that they're getting to them. We're making sure that they have a good night's sleep. We're making sure that they're fed good, balanced meals. So, you know, we are doing as much as we can in the time that we have them. And that's important. And they're happy in your home by the sounds of it. Well, I mean, they are and they aren't. They're 40 minutes away from their mates. So that doesn't go down well. But, you know, we try. And I think one of the things, again, that we talk about a lot is at some stage they'll look back and you think, well, that's fine, but I don't want to. It's hard to play the long game. That's tough. Whether it's they'll look back and realize all the things that we did for them that they didn't really understand or appreciate or notice, but the little things that we were doing to try and give them that like stable, loving, supportive home, or whether it's in a few years we won't have a mountain of child support to pay. So, you know, we can go on holidays, we can do more things because we won't be supporting two households. But in that same way, you know, if I'm counting forward the years until we don't have child support to pay, I'm also counting away my child's life. You know, so I don't want to fast forward things. I just try to appreciate it for what it is, which is tough. And as I said, people don't understand. And I actually I came across your podcast, and it was the first thing that I can remember listening to it when I was like walking the dog and being like, oh my goodness, these people are saying everything that I feel, but I've never heard anybody say it before. And they were really tough things, and it was so it was like a light bulb for me that I'm not on my own in this. You know, that there are other people out there who are dealing with things that, and I mean, there is a playbook with scorned exes. There is a list, a checklist of things that some women who are angry at their exes do, and a lot of it's very similar. So there are people who have been there, and that was so refreshing to hear and so supportive. Now I will say I did probably go down a wormhole of listening to podcasts, actually, American ones as well, and they were people who were angry at the situations they were in, and they were cross at everybody, and they had all these theories like the Stone theory and the Nacho Kids theory and all these things, and it made me even more angry. And I had to stop listening to them because I thought, no, what I need is something that acknowledges what I'm feeling and says that you know, that's okay to feel like that. And maybe here's how I worked through this. Not, yeah, this is terrible. Those women are all bitches, you're per husband or poor you. And yes, it's okay to say poor me every so often, but that can't be my the overwhelming feeling of my life. You know, like my husband always says, Don't give her, don't give her the power of your emotion. Because in many ways, I think she would love to know that I've lain awake thinking about her angry text, or she would love to know that I nearly cried there now, and she would love to know that I am resentful that I don't get to go out for brunch with my husband like my friends do with their husbands. But I don't want her to be able to glean that from me, to take that. I don't want her to sit at home and think, well, I've won because they don't have their weekends together, it's a family of three, and also she's upset about it. What I take from it is I have these three kids that I have the ability and the opportunity to make an impact on and to help and to support and to love. And that's that's what I've got to take from them.

Katie South: 42:54

I'm so grateful that you found us because it is that moment, like so many of the messages that I get literally start with, and it makes me want to cry. I thought I was the only person who felt like this. And sitting with all those uncomfortable feelings that nobody really ever talks about can get you into such a head spiral. So it's really important for us in this space to share the truth of how we feel and what we're going through. And then I really also admire your approach. It's what I always try and work with with the women that I work with in coaching around okay, here's where you are. What do you want to do with it? And where do you want to get to and what's holding you back from that? Because you're never gonna change somebody else, you're never gonna stop someone from sending all those messages. You know, you can maybe turn your phone off for a bit, but it's still gonna happen. So it's all about how do you build your own resilience and how do you craft your own life and what do you want to do with that? And I totally hear what you're saying about the venting. There's a beautiful book called Just a Thought, and I'll put the link in the show notes, but it's basically how your thoughts become your life. And if you spend your whole time on the negativity, you're gonna feel the negativity. I'm not advocating for toxic positivity or going, Hey, my life's shit, but I can't talk about it. It's it's about acknowledging it, but then what do you do with it? I really admire your ability to give yourself that grace of saying, right, I feel like this, but also to not let it completely dominate your life.

Jane: 44:30

I mean, some weekends it does, let's be honest. Some weekends, whether it's that I'm hormonal or underslept or what, you know, and does it does annoy me, it annoys me that they can't hang their tiles up properly, no matter how many times I have explained. If you hang all your tiles on top of each other, they're just gonna get wet and smelly. There are little things that annoy me. I suppose it's aspirational. I want to be the best stepmom that I can be for them. I want to be supportive, I want to show them that mum and dad didn't have a good relationship, but dad and I have a great relationship, you know, and we're very much there for each other, and we're a really, really solid couple. So I want to show them what that looks like. And again, it comes back to it gets boring for other people. I I save the headlines of here's a nugget of something ridiculous that's happened this week. And I'll put that out into my WhatsApp girls group chat, you know, maybe once a month and then reel it back in again. Okay, okay, I've I've finished talking about this now, thank you.

Katie South: 45:21

You definitely don't want to let it dominate your life, but also, you know, you're allowed to feel how you feel. You talk about being the perfect stepmum and wanting to do a really good job and bring up the kids really well and everything. And I think that also that pressure that we put on ourselves, it's not really helpful because nobody's perfect. Nobody's a perfect parent, and it's good enough to be good enough.

Jane: 45:46

Yes, and I mean I think that's part of my personality. I'm the same in work as well. I suppose I want to greet the kids with love and be in that place where I mean, we talked earlier, I think the love that I have for my baby is different to the love that I have for my stepkids, but it's still love, you know, and it's still again reflecting on what they have come through, what they are dealing with, and they deal with it so well, you know, they they pick up their bags twice a week and pack them up, whether it's coming to our house or going back to mom's house, you know, and they do it without a complaint, they do it without a word, it's just normal. And that is their life. And I think, well, that's actually quite remarkable. While I was still a secret, we lived half the week in my husband's house and half the week in my house. And I hated packing up my stuff to go over to stay in his house. And his house was cold and mine was nice and warm, and you know, it was just a real oh, come in from work and have to pack a bag and make sure I have my toothbrush and enough pants and all that kind of stuff. These kids are doing this every week, day in, day out. There's no, you know, and they will be doing it for the foreseeable, and they don't complain. And I think, well, fair play because it's not much crack picking up your stuff and moving houses, but they do.

Katie South: 47:00

Yeah. Well, look, it's been so nice to talk to you, Jane, and thank you so much for sharing everything that you've been feeling and those really tricky bits that you know. So there'll be somebody walking their dog right now thinking, thank you, Jane, for saying that.

Jane: 47:16

I hope so. There were so many things I thought of to say to you, and I feel like we've barely scratched the surface. But I guess like my takeaway is you you do your best with what you've got and you try your best. And not every day is going to be your best day, but you know what, you can start again tomorrow.

Katie South: 47:37

Wise words, Jane, and thank you so much again for your honesty and courage. If this conversation resonated, remember your feelings make sense and you don't have to do this alone. And truly, that is so worth remembering. As Jane said, you do your best with what you've got. Not every day will be your best day, but you can always start again tomorrow. If you'd like support, you can book one-to-one coaching or join our Stepmum Reset workshop at stepmumspace.com. And if this episode helped, please follow, rate, and review the show. It helps other Stepmums find us. Thanks for listening. Have a great week and take care of yourself.