Anxious When the Stepkids Arrive? Transition Day Stress & Feeling Like an Outsider

Join the Stepmum reset workshop. 

Ever felt anxious when the stepkids are due to arrive… even though they’re lovely and your partner’s supportive?
This episode is for the stepmum who’s thinking, “Why does this feel so hard when nothing is technically wrong?”

You can have great stepkids. A supportive partner. A stepfamily set-up that looks “fine” from the outside. And still feel your stomach drop on transition days. Still feel like your home isn’t fully yours. Still feel guilty for wanting space.

In this episode, I’m joined by Avril — a stepmum I worked with a few years ago, who’s now on the other side of those early-stage blended family challenges. We talk honestly about what it was like at the start: the anxiety that didn’t make sense on paper, the sense of being an outsider in your own home, and the quiet pressure stepmums carry to over-function, over-deliver, and stay “nice” no matter what.

Avril shares the simple conversation that changed everything for her — asking her partner what he actually wanted her role to be, and deciding what she was and wasn’t available for. We unpack why stepfamily dynamics can create role confusion, guilt, and burnout… and why you’re not “too sensitive” for feeling it.

If you’re navigating stepmum struggles and wondering why you feel so emotionally stretched, this is your reminder: if it affects you, it’s real — and it doesn’t mean you’re failing. It means you’re in a complex system, doing a hard role, often with very little support.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• Why you can feel anxious and unsettled in a stepfamily even when the stepkids are “easy”
• The stepmother role clarity question that can drop anxiety almost instantly
• How to set boundaries without feeling like the wicked stepmum
• Why wanting space in a blended family home is self-regulation, not rejection
• What actually helps with outsider feelings on transition days
• How to stop over-delivering and burning out as a stepmum
• Why guilt about your feelings is often the real problem

This episode is for you if you’re a stepmum who…

• feels nervous or edgy before the kids arrive, even when you like them
• feels like your home isn’t fully yours in your blended family
• worries you’re “too sensitive” or “ungrateful” because things look OK on paper
• over-functions to prove you’re a good stepmum, then feels resentful and exhausted
• wants clearer stepfamily boundaries and a calmer sense of where you stand
• feels stuck in role confusion and doesn’t know what you’re “allowed” to say no to

If this episode gave you words for something you’ve been carrying quietly, follow or subscribe so you don’t miss next week. And if you know a stepmum who needs to hear “you’re not the problem”, share this with her.

For more support with stepfamily dynamics, role clarity, and the emotional reality of the stepmother role, you can explore Stepmum Space at stepmumspace.com — or get in touch anytime at katie@stepmumspace.com

Ready for structured support?

If you’re living with anticipatory anxiety before contact, walking on eggshells at home, or constantly replaying conversations long after they’ve happened, Back in Control is my structured programme for stepmums navigating complex stepfamily dynamics.

It’s designed to help you move out of chronic vigilance and into steadiness inside your own home.

Learn more:
 www.stepmumspace.com/back-in-control

Transcript

Katie South: 0:03

Hello, I'm Katie, and this is Stepmum Space, the judgment-free zone where we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of stepmum life. So whether you've been a stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the stepmum in your life a bit better, this is the place for you. If you're a stepmum and you've ever thought, why does this feel so hard, even when nothing is technically wrong? This episode is for you. Because one of the most confusing parts of stepfamily life is that you can have lovely stepkids, a supportive partner, a situation that looks fine from the outside, and you can still feel anxious when they're due to arrive, still feel like your home isn't fully yours, and still feel guilty for wanting space. Today I'm talking with Avril, a stepmum I've worked with in the past. Avril's a few years down the road now and in a really strong place. We go back to what it was like in the early days and what actually helped. The conversations that changed everything, the boundaries that brought her back to herself, and the reminder you might need most. If it affects you, it's real. Let's get into it. So I've been really, really, really excited about this one because we've worked together in the past and it's been a while since we've spoken.

Avril: 1:26

I think it's three years in total, when I was like not in a very good place at all, just generally in life. But yeah, and we did the workshop just before the Christmas of that, I think, which was really good.

unknown: 1:36

Yeah.

Katie South: 1:36

And we saw our little WhatsApp group going, which was just the best thing ever. It is lovely, isn't it? Just because that's that's the thing, isn't it? So many women are like, I just need somebody who gets it. Yeah. Um yeah, and it's so nice.

Avril: 1:47

I've seen on TikTok now, things are starting to increase in terms of like people talking about it and just having that extra sort of safe space there. Because like when I first did this role, I was like, I need to find something. There must be some resources out there to help me because you've just got no idea how to navigate things. And they say you just don't have, I guess it's like being a mum. There's no rule book, is it really? But for stepmums, I think it's extra hard because you just get plonked into this completely life that wasn't yours in the beginning and expected to adjust like overnight.

Katie South: 2:14

Yeah, and you say it's like that for mums, but in some ways, in some ways it is, but in other ways, like society's just geared up to support new mums, biological mums, adoptive mums, foster mums, and it's not the same for step-mums. So, on top of that, you haven't got all the resources, you haven't always got all the family support. Not everyone wants you to succeed at your role, and also you've got the shame about speaking about the feelings because you don't know if it's okay.

Avril: 2:39

Yeah, that is true, and just not knowing how people will react as well when you do talk about it. Because I think some people just don't know what to say to you because they've got no scale of how you're feeling. Like they'll sit there and nod along, but then to actually give you advice, they just don't have any, which is even harder because then you're just like, Well, I'm still stuck with these same feelings, so what do I do?

Katie South: 2:56

Yeah, exactly. So obviously, you and I know each other fairly well, having done the workshop together and then some sessions afterwards. Share a little bit about yourself for people listening.

Avril: 3:06

Okay, so I live with my partner, um, been with him for six years, then his two stepchildren who are with us um every other weekend, and we have a couple of days in between who are now age ten and seven. So I met them when the youngest was not even two, and the eldest would have been six. I did say to Phil the other day, I was like, we went on a holiday when I think Bert was two or three, and Henry was seven or eight, and I was like, it's our first holiday. And I was like, was I mental? You know, and you look back and go, How did I survive that? But you do, you know, it's um a brilliant dad. Just a bit of backstory, I guess. We met, we were both going through a divorce at the same time, and then we found out that we went to school together, so it was all very nice, which and we just sort of put no pressure on the relationship and just at the beginning, just sort of got to know each other, and you know, I didn't know how I felt about someone with children. I remember one of my friends asking me, you know, how do you feel about someone with kids? And I was like, I don't really know. It's not like uh some people are like absolutely not, but um we just got on and the rest is history, I guess. So then we lived separately. He'd split from his ex-wife and was back at home with his parents, and then we moved in together with the boys five years ago this year.

Katie South: 4:13

So you were together about a year, year and a half before you guys moved in. Yeah.

Avril: 4:18

So like in the beginning, we were I was very conscious that there were children involved, and I think I've always been respectful of the fact that you know I don't want to get too involved and then take the way because it's not fair on the kids, they've been through enough given the fact that the parents had split. So I think we took it very slowly, and it was literally just once a week we just meet up for going to the park, or they come to my house, or we'd just go out for the day or something. So it was really slow and steady. I was incredibly nervous the first time I met the kids, like really, really nervous. I remember it just thinking that I was even shaking, and I think it just shows how much I genuinely cared about Phil and the boys. So yeah, I was alright with that. I think going from then visiting and then going again was fine. I think them moving in together was like a oh god, yeah, just a completely different mindful. It was hard, especially because I don't have children of my own as well for people listening. So it was like going from living on my own with no children to two very young children overnight and having to just navigate them half of the time. But it's only half of the time, so yeah, it's still challenging, you know, just and half half of the time's a lot.

Katie South: 5:20

And I do think that transition, you know, we talk a lot about whether, you know, full-time stepmum every other week, stepmum, 50-50 step mum. Uh they're all different, but one of the challenges with that 50-50 is that it's a lot of time, but it's also enough time that you get your house to yourself, so then it feels quite different when kids are there. Did you guys move into your house or did you get somewhere new together?

Avril: 5:44

No, we got somewhere new. I do hear some people on the podcast that talk about moving into like obviously their house. And I was like, I don't think I could that must be really challenging. But I don't think I'd do that. So no, we just had a fresh start together and got somewhere that's big enough for the kids as they get older, they've got plenty of outdoor space, they've got their own rooms, they've got their own little gaming room now, because that's the new thing. Now they're a bit older. So we really sort of planned ahead as much as we could. But yeah, it was really challenging at the start. I think it just I think you forget how difficult it was. And sort of, I mean, I can't complain about the kids because they've just been fantastic from day one, so accepting and welcoming, and like the youngest doesn't really remember any time without me now because obviously he was so young. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the eldest, he's just been brilliant. Like, just he's just such a friendly boy anyway, and we'll love he loves to chat.

Katie South: 6:27

So obviously, there are a lot of stepmums who deal with really challenging stepkids, or they deal with stepkids who demonstrate challenging behaviours due to things that are going on. But I think sometimes when the stepkids are great kids, it can almost make it harder for the stepmum because you have complicated feelings or you find things difficult.

Avril: 6:46

And I think that's what you're stuck with is then you're like, You're brilliant. My partner is the most supportive dad in the world, and I wouldn't be doing this if he wasn't. But then you're still stuck with these weird feelings, and you're like, why? And I remember talking to you saying, you know, I get really nervous on the day that they come to the house. And I remember you asked me, like, well, what is it? And I was like, I don't really know, because you know, they're perfectly well behaved, you know, they're great, they just want to tell you about your day, they do as they're told. They sort of accepted me as part of their life, which must be hard after everything they've been through. So yeah, even though that happens, we're still stuck with the same feelings, aren't you? Even though you've got like everything's perfect, or some people have real challenges that they have to deal with.

Katie South: 7:22

And I always say, like, even you then said, Oh, some people have real challenges. Your challenge is still real. Yeah. Yeah. It's the horror of comparison, isn't it? I think it is, and it's also the definition of the role. So if you are going through something as a mum that's, you know, minor in the scheme of things, a difficult period with your child or something, you wouldn't say it in the same way. But when you're a step-mum, you kind of think, oh, it's not a real problem. I'm not entitled to feel bad. And you are, and I'm working with so many women at the moment who are like, well, it's not a real problem, but I do feel like this. And I think it it is a real problem. If it affects you, it's a real problem.

Avril: 8:02

Yeah, I think there's the whole thing around sometimes with the double standards as well between mums and step-mums. So like there was one morning a few years ago where the kids sort of like come into our bedroom first thing in the morning, they were like jumping around on the bed. And I was like, just have one of those days where you're just like, I'm not in the mood for this. So I sort of got up and just walked out and just sat with a cup of tea and was reading my book. And Phil was like, Well, what was the problem? You know, he asked me what was wrong, and I explained. And he sort of sort of gave me sort of a half, not the reaction you'd get if it was a mum. And I said, Look, that's the problem, because if I was their mum and I didn't know you wouldn't think twice about it, you'd just accept it. So I was like, it made him think that he was like, Oh, yeah, actually.

Katie South: 8:36

Yeah, and you can have a react one reaction to one thing one day, and then on a different day, you can feel differently about it because of whatever else is going on in the rest of your life, your career, your friendships, your family, your hormones, you know. Yeah. You talked a little bit when we were working together about that feeling of your home not being your own, which I know is a common one for step mums, but not one that they vocalise that much outwardly. Can you share a little bit more about your experience?

Avril: 9:52

Yeah, I can't. I mean, I can't really explain. It's just that feeling of sometimes. I think living with three boys as well, because obviously they're into things that I'm probably not like well, football. I'll watch it, but I'm not like an avid fan or gaming, and sometimes it's like they'll do things together, which is absolutely fine. Like I'm all for them spending time together, but you do sort of feel like left out, or sometimes I guess they will just take over the house, as kids do. And I think that's the adjustment piece I probably struggle with was the fact that there was felt like there was no space that was my own. So we did make sure that I had my own office just so I had like an escape. That sounds really bad, but you know, somewhere where I could go that was just my that felt like mine, especially going from a house that was entirely mine. It's just that adjustment piece, but you do feel like, oh god, I've literally just got no mental breathing space. That must have been a mega transition as well. Yeah, huge. Yeah, we went through quite a challenging period with bed wetting and sleepless nights, and it just felt, yeah, I was like, this is hard work. Happy honeymoon period. Yeah. It was really, it was tough.

Katie South: 10:48

The tiredness is, yeah, that was that was really challenging. I noticed there you said, oh, I had my office to escape to, but that sounds really bad. And again, I want to say, like, it's not bad at all to need somewhere to escape to but I think it's that stigma you have attached to being a stepmum, right?

Avril: 11:05

It's that exact same conversation we just had. Like you just feel like you shouldn't be saying these things. I still do bathtime, bedtime, help them to learn to read, you do all the same things. You know, I'm very hands-on with them. So yeah, sometimes you just need some breathing space, like a normal mom would.

Katie South: 11:20

Exactly. And I think if anyone's listening, kind of thinking, I feel under pressure to spend the whole weekend with my stepkids, but I don't really want to, like, it's okay to take that space. It's it doesn't mean you don't care about them, it doesn't mean you don't love them, it doesn't mean you're not welcoming. It just means you're navigating a really challenging role and you're moving into a family that's already set up and that's difficult. So give yourself a break, make sure that you can communicate with your partner.

Avril: 11:45

So I remember when I worked with you before that um there was that question around we were trying to work out what the anxiety was related to around them, and I couldn't work out, and then we sort of came to the conclusion that I hadn't actually asked Phil the question about what he wanted me to be involved with, and I remembered it, and I was like, oh no, I didn't ask that. And literally, the moment I asked him that question, he gave me some clarity around pretty much everything except these two items, like it just went. Like, I'm not joking, the anxiety just dropped. And I was like, right, I know where I stand now. And I think that probably is one thing that I would say to anyone listening, just have that simple conversation because it's amazing, it's like the most simple question in the world. But it just gives you that peace of mind that you don't have to be around 100% of the time. And I've started now the kids to get a bit older, they sort of can accommodate themselves a bit more, so they like to get up and game on a Saturday morning. So I'm like, well, I'm off to yoga then, because it's just something they don't mind, you know. And I think even if they're not that old, I still encourage them to spend time with dad on their own because I think it's really important that they do have that.

Katie South: 12:42

And also equally important is like what you wanted your role to be. So it's important to understand, okay, what does Phil want from you, or what does Phil think the kids need from you? And then more importantly, actually, what are you happy to do and what do you want your role to be? And then together to kind of craft it because that role ambiguity, like you say, it can cause so much anxiety, especially at the start, and especially when you first move in together.

Avril: 13:05

I think now we're a bit further down, it's we're probably a bit more fluid and sort of a bit more overlap where things happen or decisions need to be made unless they're ultimately serious and it's for dad and by mum to deal with. But yeah, the start is really challenging, but you do need to probably set your boundaries, which again is a really key thing, isn't it? We've talked about and worked on. Um, just so you know that if you don't want to do something, that's absolutely fine, but you've just got to make it clear from the start.

Katie South: 13:28

Yeah, and a lot of what burns step mums out and causes so much stress and anxiety is that over delivery. So, like, I've got to do everything I've got to do. And I think that's what happened to me, like genuinely.

Avril: 13:39

If anyone's listening and feeling like that, I think I was trying to be everything to everyone, and I I wanted to share on there, I think, just to say don't shoot yourself away. There's plenty of people to talk to, and just don't give up like I did, because yeah, you just end up burning yourself out and trying to please everybody, and you just end up losing yourself. And it's true. I've lived it and it was awful. But there's help out there. What helps you get yourself back? Spending time with myself, doing things that I enjoy in the week, having that mindfulness around having boundaries when the kids are here, or if there's something I don't want to do, or they want to go off somewhere and I'll go, I don't really want to come and don't need to feel guilty, or I want to go off and do this instead. I think just don't forget about your own life.

Katie South: 14:20

Yeah, exactly. When you and Phil had that conversation about actually what what do you both see your role as being, were you on the same page?

Avril: 14:28

Yeah, I think so. Because I really enjoyed the sort of the bathtime, bedtime routine, like when one of them would ask me to be like in the bathroom with them as just DJ normally, just choosing music while they were in the bath, um, or like helping them to read. So I quite enjoyed that. I think I said if it was like serious discipline roles, that's his demeanour, because I felt at the time in the beginning that was definitely something he could deal with. And then there was just decisions around schools and things, which obviously would sit with him, and obviously anything more serious. Generally, pretty much on the same page. He was quite happy for me to be involved with everything. There was only a couple of things that he said no to, and I was quite happy as well, because I did enjoy spending time with them. And what's your relationship like with the boys? Really positive. I think because I'm the eldest of three as well, I think that probably helps. I've got two younger siblings, so sometimes I feel like their older sister, sometimes I'm like their finant, and that's the blessing of this role, I think, is someday is you're not just a stepmum. I think you can be all sorts, and you can sort of have that objective view on a situation or feelings, or more so than I think you would as a parent, which I think I've read somewhere else, is that you don't look things through like rose-tinted glasses like you would as a parent with your own children. You sort of see things objectively, which I think is really important to remember, but in a positive way. Generally, yeah, the relationship with the boys is brilliant. We have our own little in-jokes and things that we do together. So, like the youngest is at a birthday party. I used to take the eldest to the cinema, or we'll watch something like a film that his brother obviously can't watch because he's too young. So we're going through like the Marvel Avengers series at the moment. We introduced them to Gladiators when it came back on the telly, so they're hooked on that.

Katie South: 15:59

Oh, my family absolutely love gladiators.

Avril: 16:04

Wasn't sure if they'd like it or not. I was like, oh god, you're gonna find this really cheesy, but they love it.

Katie South: 16:08

I came down the other day, and my little seven-year-old, she'd gone upstairs and she'd put on like a gym outfit, and she was downstairs, like literally copying the gladiator's routine and flexing her muscles, and you know, and we try and do loads of like body positivity, you're strong, you're powerful, and stuff like this. She was like, Look at my muscles. I was like, I love this. Then when they're pummeling each other with cushions, it's not me and my sister.

Avril: 16:33

Again, I guess the other thing is that the eldest is quite he will come and talk to me. There's been instances in the last few years where he not he doesn't feel brave enough to talk to dad about a situation or how he's feeling about something, so he will ask if he can talk to me, and obviously big emotions for him that he just needed to get out. So I'll feel very privileged that that is my role and and he feels willing enough to talk to me about things. And what about mum? What's what's the situation there? Uh so it was pretty challenging at the start, like very challenging when me and Bill first got together. I think in terms of boundary setting, I think that was sort of sorted out probably a year into living together. I think it sort of boiled down to how much I was involved, and she just wanted to know what I was doing and whether I was probably that involved at all. I think when we first got together it was just very um negative, maybe loss of control. I don't know. I don't know what the ins and outs were, but it was very like it's a big change. And I think for me I'd be more sympathetic if he attended things with her, but it was the other way around and she was with someone else at the point that Phil had moved out. I sort of found that mentally quite difficult to compute because it's like I don't really understand. But I think it's just the fear of well, I don't know, I can't justify someone else's feelings, but yeah, it was just quite aggressive and tried to warn me off the children and stuff. So Oh, how do you warn someone off your own kids? It was just that I think there was a situation where Phil was just doing like a little tea birthday party, his parents for the youngest, and he was two, and things just really escalated. And she just wanted to meet me, and she basically used that as a threat. Otherwise, she wouldn't let the youngest go to the birthday party. It was you look back and go, What? Did you meet her? Yes, I did. Part of me feels like I shouldn't have done it, but I just thought, no, I just it's not fair on Phil and Ember, really. So And what happened? Uh nothing at all. We literally met her one morning and she literally didn't say three words to me. She barely made any eye contact. It was very strange.

Katie South: 18:30

I was coming at it from the point of okay, well, if she doesn't know you and she just wants to say hi to the person who's gonna be with her kids, but then if she she didn't want to speak to you.

Avril: 18:40

Yeah, so odd. Very strange. It's been a lot of um tension between her and Phil, I think, over the the first couple of years, just with I guess it's just changed, isn't it? And when you've got two young children involved, it's probably quite challenging. But thankfully things are a lot better now. I think they had a sit-down chat probably about a year and a half in where she asked to go for a meet and they just talked through everything. And I think from that point on, I think it was just the realization that potentially I was not going anywhere. And since then it's been very transactional. Which is so do you have a relationship with her at all? No, no, I I think there was a couple of instances at the start, like I've mentioned, where I just once I can let someone off, but after that I just don't trust her and her. She's very volatile with her emotions, and I've seen it on more than one occasion to the point where you know you can predict somebody's behaviour. So I sort of gone, no, I just there's no reason for me to have any sort of relationship with her. I'm civil if we're at school assemblies and things, and I'll say hello, but there's no need. My um in my head, my lawyer is with Phil and his children.

Katie South: 19:36

Yeah, as you say, you can be perfectly civil without having to have a relationship with somebody. Um and I think actually, I think sometimes it's a lot better. I think a lot of women really try and have that sort of movie relationship where you have to-hats off to them.

Avril: 19:52

Hats off to them. If it works, then you're happy with that, then fine, but it's just not for me.

Katie South: 19:56

So but in my experience, what I see is they try and it doesn't work, and it just causes a whole lot of strife. You've both got to be on the same page. I mean, I've had women on the show who are great mates with the ex, and that's brilliant. And I think if if you both want that and you can do it and it works, fantastic. But there's no shame on any bio mum or stepmum who thinks I don't really want to have a relationship with the other one.

Avril: 20:19

Strange, because it's the first question that people normally ask as well, which I find really odd. Like if ever I tell them that I'm a stepmum, then I would do how's the ex, you know, it's like the first thing that someone asks about. And I was like, why is that the first question I get?

unknown: 20:30

Yeah.

Avril: 20:32

And I just I don't want one. Like there's no shame in that.

Katie South: 20:35

I think sometimes you can almost feel like you're supposed to have quite extreme emotions about an ex, one way or the other. Whereas I think a lot of the time it's kind of like, yeah, you know, someone he was married to. Sometimes I actually see. Point sometimes she's a bit of a dick, and actually that's probably like most people in the world, you know. Yeah, yeah.

Avril: 20:57

I think it's hard to navigate at the start. Normally, when you break up, you don't see the ex anymore. So the fact that they're always there, I think is just a bit of a challenge, particularly in the early years. I think it was difficult. I think because probably the kids were so young. I think now they've got older, obviously, we get bigger children, bigger problems, but I think you sort of get used to the fact that there's some things that will be navigated between Biom and Phil.

Katie South: 21:17

And I think it does get easier as kids get older because you have to have less frequent communication about all sorts of things. And I think what I can think looking back is actually in my relationship with my ex, on a lot of the things, we had very similar views about how a child should be raised with regards to screens, diet, exercise, stuff like that, which is big and can and I've seen it cause a lot of problems in step families. But then other times when we haven't agreed on things, that would have been the same even if we were married still. Like, well, we still wouldn't have had necessarily had the same opinions about how to raise our child.

Avril: 21:56

Sometimes because I think a lot of the communication is normally through text message. So I think that's probably part of the uncomfortable feelings at the beginning because we just used to get a message on a Sunday evening and it was just that everything that's gone wrong or everything that he's done wrong, or you know.

Katie South: 22:09

Yeah. I mean, it just lands. And I think something happened the other day with my husband, and we were talking about we had a a very different opinion about something on our child together. And you know, you have the conversation, but it doesn't turn into an argument because you're like, Well, this is both of our child, and actually one of us is gonna quote unquote get what we think's right and the other one isn't. So in the end, I was like, Well, I don't agree, but if you want to do it that way, that's your choice, and we'll just crack on. But it doesn't become really loaded, whereas in a communication with an ex, it it can quite quickly escalate rather than a well, this is just two people having a different opinion. And I've said to my ex on the phone before we had a different opinion about something recently, and I was like, Look, I don't agree with you, I'm never gonna agree with you, but I respect your opinion, and it's okay for us to have a different opinion. We don't have to agree, but we also don't have to have a massive argument about it. We can just say we both think something different.

Avril: 23:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But alas, that it just gets lost in translation sometimes, I think. If you're not having that that phone call or that actual communication, it's just a text message that comes through. Yeah, and those Sunday night text so we subsided actually for a long time, but at the beginning they were it was almost predictable. I think because of the time that Phil only had the boys, I think at the beginning, like one day a week before we moved in together, but then there was sort of a rotor set up, so it's a bit more consistent, but it's just like we used to make a joke out of it, like you know, like on Love Island when they say I've got a text, so we used to say that. I just felt for Phil. I just think I'm trying to hardest, you know. And he's a really great dad. It's just the way the communication comes across. I can't remember the instant for him because it's been a while, but um, yeah, thankfully they're they're no more.

Katie South: 23:49

It is hard. I do always say to women, like as much as you can try and detach yourself from it and not take it as a personal attack. A lot of women will say to me, like, I hear that beep, that tone, whatever. Oh, yeah, something there. Anxiety comes up and you're like, and just to like pause in the moment. I was talking about this with a client the other day, like it's your body's biological response to danger, and your body doesn't know the difference between actual danger or threatened danger. So you straight away go into fight, flight, freeze, and that is what causes the problem. So if anyone's listening, before the Sunday night text, like remind yourself nothing they're gonna say in that moment is gonna hurt you, and notice when you feel that physical reaction, because then you can start to manage it and actually have it not take over your evening.

Avril: 24:38

Yeah, and I find it really helpful that I just asked most of the time, like, would he share with me? And he would freely, but you know, just to go if you just want that comfort as to what's been said. Obviously, if it's gonna make you feel worse, don't. But like just for me, it was just like, okay, so what is the problem? Like, what have we done? What's happened this time, you know, what's on the list of of hate crimes. But yeah, I've been there, I've I've been there, I know how that feels. I don't miss that feeling at all. And it does get better, just give yourself a break. And there's people out there to help. What do you wish you had known then that you know now? Oh, that's a kinds. I was thinking about this in the car the other day. Like, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think if someone asked me if I'd do it again, would in knowing what I know now, would I do it again? And I think if someone had told me all the things that were gonna happen at the start, I would have been like, absolutely not. I think just to not give up on yourself, I think that's the only thing, is just it really is true. And just not to feel guilty if you want to go off and do something on your own.

Katie South: 25:34

I think, especially if you're a stepmum who comes into it and you don't have children of your own, it's such a dramatic life change. There's no maternity leave, there's no build-up. You might get more than one child that a lot's already established that's done not the way you would. So it's so important to realise that you you can be all in mentally without being all in physically present every second.

Avril: 25:57

Yeah, I 200% agree with that, but you do have that sense of guilt sometimes. I remember feeling that way because the kids aren't with us for very long, they just want to make the most of the time they've got with us, which I understand. But then I just think that's almost someone else's emotion to talk in, not my own. So for me to mentally cope, I think you've just got to make sure you carve out time for yourself. Have you ever had the feeling of being an outsider in the family? Yeah, sometimes I think I think like I said before, just around the activities and things that they do together, they refer to themselves by their ill surname, and that sort of sometimes hits a bit, because we feel like I'm married, but that sort of just makes me feel a bit like an outsider. Which is odd, isn't it? It's such an odd thing, but you sort of go, Oh no, I just don't feel part of the family.

Katie South: 26:41

It's not odd at all.

Avril: 26:42

What do you do when that happens? Just remind myself that I am a big part and have been for many years, and just either that or just let it wash over me and just not try and react. Which is easier said than done dependent on the day, not time of the month, but like is marriage something you would like in the future? Yeah, I'm um I'm definitely up for it again. Phil, I'm not so sure, but we will see.

Katie South: 27:04

Obviously, I've pre-checked that you're okay for me to ask this. What about children of your own? Is that something you'd like in the future?

Avril: 27:10

So I've always been openly on the fence about children. It's part of the reason why my last marriage broke down because we never really had that conversation. We got married quite young and then it got to crunch time, and I was like, I don't think I want this, and then ended up with someone with two children. I think I went through a period five of my closest friends were pregnant and expecting, and I think that put added pressure on me a couple of years ago to go, should I want this? Do I want this? But I think I've made peace with the fact that I don't. And the boys give me enough fulfillment in that stepmum role that I'm okay with that. I think I've been through quite a lot with them and seeing them grow up is a big part. I feel like I sort of not tick that box necessarily, but yeah.

Katie South: 27:48

I mean, I guess if you're sitting there with your five best friends and they're all pregnant and at the same time and you're not having a feel a feeling about like, oh, this would be nice, then that's kind of the absence of that feeling is enough to almost tell you.

Avril: 27:59

I think um but you do put that internal pressure on yourself, I think, to go, is this something that I want or not?

Katie South: 28:04

But I think I've made peace with that now. So I guess then on the plus side, you have 50% of your time as just a couple.

Avril: 28:11

Yes. Oh yeah, it's nice. And I think it's funny, I think Phil at the start was always like, he was always up for having another trial. He was like, Yeah, I'll definitely do it again. And now he's got used to this 50-50, he's like, mm-hmm. I quite like this like 50-50 split because it gives him time to do things that he likes. Yeah, you know, go on day trips, go to watch the football, go fishing, like you know, it just gives you that breather. How do you find the transition days? Initially it was tough. Like, I think that was one of the things I used to get anxious about, and I think it was more the fact that I didn't have that mental peace in my own home. I think it was the absence of having that all the time. Now, not so bad. I think on a on a Friday I normally pick them up from school. That's quite nice. I'm a bit more involved. It's a bit challenging as always. I think it's just the it's challenging for them, you know. I think having to go from one house to another. I've noticed it's more now they're a bit older, more challenging than school holidays. I find there's a bigger difference in their behaviour when they come versus when they've been at school. But on the whole, not too bad now. I think I've got quite used to the fact that that is the routine and we're sort of set and steady and really settled. So I can't, I'm really happy about that.

Katie South: 29:15

I talk a lot about family culture. Like, what's the culture in mum's house like compared to yours?

Avril: 29:21

I don't really know. The only thing I do know is they have a lot more screen time in mum's house. That's the only objective thing I can honestly say. We try and limit it as much as we can here. Obviously, given the world that we live in, it's hard. But I think um you do notice the difference in their moods and things around when they're not gaming all the time. But other than that, I don't I don't really know that much about mum's house. We sort of keep it that's what they do with mum, and then this is what we do over here. So we don't really try and cross over too much unless there's a serious problem. I think then obviously there'll be a conversation to have.

Katie South: 29:48

One of the things that I think's been common throughout, and that you've spoken about back when we were on the workshop and then when we worked together subsequently was about how supportive your partner is, and you've talked about that as well today. So, what are the things that you have got from your partner that you think have made the role easier for you? And I ask that because then other women can can share it with their partners in a way that maybe they can't always find the words for.

Avril: 30:15

I think he just he loves the boys to bits, and you can see that, and he just wants to be the best dad he can. I think um he's quite clear in what he wants to do with them at the weekends, so sort of pre-panning. I found that quite helpful. Just going, what do you want to do? Just preempting that question of just so I had that sort of not control, but peace of mind as to what was happening over the weekend in case he had something he wanted to do with the boys and I don't necessarily want to go, rather than it going, right, we're going, and you go, well, I don't really want to come, but I feel bad now because we're just going out the door. So I think just having that conversation that would help. We're both very much on the same page around like diet and just general routines and making sure they get enough sleep and screen times. I think that really helps. That's been really good. I think just he's really clear in his head what sort of dad he wants to be. I think that just helps that he just wants to be the best he can for the kids given the circumstances. I'm just trying to think of the tangible things. I don't think it's anything specific, I think it's just him as a person. You can see when he's with the boys, he just yeah, he just loves them to bits.

Katie South: 31:13

I mean, it sounds obviously great the alignment between you on like the the things like diet screen time, bedtime, all those things that a lot of the time women will say they feel that the dads are quite lax on, and then they see it play out in the behaviour of the children. But then when the woman suggests something different, she feels like the wicked stepmother, and then she becomes the problem. Like it it's it's a pattern that I see over and over again. Have you ever found Phil's parented from a place of guilt? Uh maybe once or twice.

Avril: 31:45

Yeah, but I think that's more about just giving them things, but not so much on the lack of seam as I probably heard from other stories and things where they just give a give and give.

Katie South: 31:53

Uh once or twice guilt parenting would take. I'm pretty sure I've guilt parented all of my kids or more than once. Yeah, sometimes I have to be honest, as a step-parent, you just go, Yeah, you can whatever you want, it's fine.

Avril: 32:02

I'm sorry.

Katie South: 32:03

Yeah. But we all do it, but I think that it's the dad being really clear on like who do you want to be as a dad? What are the things that are important to you? What are the things as a couple and a household that are important to you? And how are you going to make sure you're on the same page as them? Because it does tend to be the women who have more clear ideas about things that they are okay with and not okay with, and that can really quickly put you into wicked stepmum territory. And it sounds like before you guys moved in together, you were on the same page with those things.

Avril: 32:31

Yeah, yeah. I don't think I would have been if we weren't. And I think because we took go through everything so slow at the start, it sort of gave us that time to sort of get to know each other really well. Um, it's not all raising, just giving people lifting and go, Oh, she's got me so perfect. I think he found my difficult emotions challenging to manage occasionally, particularly at the start, because again, there's no rule book on the other side, is there? So it's like when I'm coming to him going, I feel like this, and he's like, I don't know what you want me to do. Tell us a bit more about that. I think just as a Sunday night text message, I think I've struggled to deal with them quite a lot at the beginning and just try and explain to him how it made me feel. But then it's like trying to come up with a res resolution is really hard, isn't it? You just have to sort of accept internally yourself they're always going to be there, but you don't have to react the way that you do to those messages.

Katie South: 33:17

And I think I don't know about you, but did you feel it was in the beginning important to you that the kid's mum either liked you or thought you were doing a good job?

Avril: 33:26

Not really, but I think given the starting point we had, I sort of went, hmm, no. I would hope, and I think we've me and Phil have had this conversation that you've got to put trust in the other person or the bioparent that who they choose to partner with would be a sensible choice, right? And that's what we've worked off. Just if it's the same the other way, if she finds a new partner, then you trust that he's he's the right thing for the kids.

Katie South: 33:49

Yeah. It's hard if you don't though, right? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you have no say. No. So it sounds like obviously the last six years have been there's been bumpy parts, there's been difficult parts, but you're in a really strong place now.

Avril: 34:05

Oh, yeah. I don't I think I had to get to this place to be able to do this podcast, otherwise the emotions would just take over and it'd just be a rant for uh an hour or me crying one or the other, I don't know. And both are fine, you know, both fine. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with emotions.

Katie South: 34:21

What advice would you give to somebody who's where you were four years ago? It gets better.

Avril: 34:29

There is m so many people out there that support you. I mean, the fact that after working with you, we've got this WhatsApp group that's listening. Um, I've met these women once on a Zoom call, and we just send each other WhatsApp messages like when we're having a bad day, and it can be we're not talking to each other for months, and someone just sends, you know, a massive message about what's going on, and it's just to have that support network. So please just reach out. Like there are people out there that can help. And I think just talk to your partner, you know, like we said about that one simple question. You seem to spend some time working out about what it is that's bothering you, and sometimes just the simple question can sort of alleviate a lot of the anxiety.

Katie South: 35:04

Yeah, and the question specifically that I think you're talking about is like, what do you both want your role to be? What do you want to be involved in? What do you not want to be involved in? Yeah. And that sort of setup in the beginning, I think it's actually really important in any relationship when you become parents, because I see it so often that people have a baby or in a step-family relationship and you don't really talk about what's gonna happen, who's gonna do what.

Avril: 35:30

Yeah, yeah. And revisit it, right? It's not a one-time conversation. I think um it does get easier as you get as you go together a bit longer, but yeah, obviously you just it's just important to not agree at once and let it slide, just keep talking.

Katie South: 35:41

Yeah, and and to know your own limit. I had a client recently who was a teacher, and she was kind of expected in the holidays to have her stepkids. And she was like, I'm I'm happy to do a little bit extra, but actually, I want to spend time with my friends and I want to do other things and I want to go and do a bit of travelling, and I don't she didn't have her own kids. And she was like, But I feel really bad because the mum and the dad both think because I'm a teacher, I can look after the kids in the holidays, and it's like no. No, no, there shouldn't be that expectation there, shouldn't it? So getting on the same page really intentionally matters, doesn't it?

Avril: 36:15

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, having lived it, yeah. And gone down south and then come up again the other side, it's been eye-opening, just really helpful.

Katie South: 36:25

I will say there's a workshop coming up, it's on the 23rd of January. So if anybody is interested in joining, meeting a group of like-minded women, as you say, it's a few years on and you guys are still in touch all the time, and it's so important because you have that space where you can speak without any fear of judgment. Within the first sort of 15 minutes, women tend to just relax into themselves and know that they're in a space with people who get it. So all the details are at stepmumspace.com slash stepmumreset, and I'll put the link in the show notes. And I would love to see you. It's always a small group because it's very much detailed, in-depth work together. So tell me, Avril, what do you hope for the future?

Avril: 37:08

Uh, I just want to continue this wonderful. I'm gonna get emotional now. Just I'm really proud of like where we are and how far I've come and how far we've come as a family, and I just hope it continues. Like I'm just really, really proud. Like the kids are really settled. Obviously, going through a bit of a change this year because the eldest is starting senior school, but I just know that we can handle it. And yeah, I'm just really, really proud that I didn't give up.

Katie South: 37:34

It's so nice to hear, and I feel really grateful to have been like a teeny teeny part. Oh, yeah, no, thank you. Like honestly, Casey, like I think you saved me.

Avril: 37:44

Yeah, it's so nice to see you in this confident space, like I was not there, it's awful. Oh, yeah, it was terrible, but it's happened. But I think it's just to know that people aren't on their own. Like if you're feeling that weight, it's it's fine and it's normal and it will get better. You've just got to give yourself time. And I think you're expected to take on so much in such a small space of time, almost immediately, you know, like overnight. And as a mum, you get time to when you grow the child to you give birth to it, and then you adjust with it, and it's still part of you, but taking on effectively a stranger and their children is is hard. So you've just got to make sure you give yourself a break and just look after yourself.

Katie South: 38:22

Yeah, and and as well as that kind of giving it time and looking after yourself, it's like being aware of the tools that are available and learning about the role because a lot of the time it's the system and the things that the family system does in a stepfamily that cause the issues, but the way that everything often feels framed is that it's like the stepmum who's the problem. So I can't tell you the amount of women who will say, Oh, yeah, but I shouldn't feel like that, or it's bad that I feel like that, or but I mustn't be very nice because I feel like that. And they're all completely normal feelings. Yeah. And learning about that and learning about how your body responds, how your mind responds, things that you can do in certain situations, conversations to have, why the dynamics are like they are in step families is really, really important as well. And nobody should be feeling like, oh God, it's my fault. I'm just you know, because it's not, it's it's a really hard role and it's beautiful and rewarding. And there's so many of us who are blessed with incredible stepchildren who we absolutely adore. But even when, as you said, your stepchildren are brilliant, your partner's supportive, it's still hard.

Avril: 39:33

Yeah, and I think part of me felt probably felt those feelings because you listen to some of the other podcasts that you've done and you think, God, I don't have it that bad. But it's still hard. You know, everyone has their own challenges, don't they? It doesn't make them any less or more difficult. But I think part of you feels more guilty for feeling that way because you should feel like everything's fine.

Katie South: 39:52

I was chatting to a woman the other day who was saying to me, Oh, but I haven't got it that bad because you know, the ex is actually really reasonable and my stepdaughter's amazing, but I still feel these complicated feelings and I feel really guilty for them. And then the guilt about the feelings is really the problem.

Avril: 40:07

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it shouldn't be, right?

Katie South: 40:10

Shouldn't be. Well, I know that your story will have given so many people hope. And what I love is that you have been able to be really honest about the really difficult times and the things that helped you through them. So for those people who are stuck in it, you don't just have to sit it out. There are things that you can do and it will get better. And you you need that supportive partner. That's the that's the key to it all, right?

Avril: 40:36

Oh, yeah, 100%. You need to be on the same page, or at least just have him in your corner.

Katie South: 40:41

Yeah. Thank you so much for getting in touch with me because it was such a little ray of light. I'm always so happy to hear how people have got on and how the work. That we've done together has helped them and the support they've found through the groups has helped them. So I'm very, very grateful to you for getting.

Avril: 40:57

No, thank you, Katie. Thank you for letting me do this as well. And hope it's helped at least one person.

Katie South: 41:03

I know it will. If this episode put words into something you've been carrying quietly, I hope it's reminded you you are not alone and you are not the problem. And if you're craving a space where you can talk about this role without being judged, I'm running a small guided Stepmum Space workshop live on Zoom on the 23rd of January. It's practical, supportive, and you'll be in a space with women who truly get it. I'll pop the link in the show notes, or you can email me katy at stepmumspace.com if you'd like to join us. For now, remember this feeling these complicated emotions does not mean you're failing. It means you're in a complex role without much guidance, and that matters. We'll be back next week with another new story. Till then, take care.