False Allegations as a Stepmum: High-Conflict Co-Parenting & Being the Scapegoat

If you’re constantly watching what you say, do, or post because you’re scared it’ll be twisted later — this episode is for you.
 Because in a high-conflict stepfamily, “being nice” doesn’t always keep you safe.

Content note: this episode includes discussion of threats, violence, and false allegations.

What do you do when you love your stepchildren… but the wider system makes you feel unsafe?

In this honest conversation, Clare shares 11 years of stepfamily life across two completely different co-parenting realities: one respectful and workable — and one high-conflict dynamic where she’s been scrutinised, threatened, and repeatedly blamed for things she didn’t do.

You’ll hear what it’s like to become the “problem” in someone else’s story — from being told she wasn’t allowed to write in a reading diary, to living with the constant fear that anything she says could be misrepresented, to facing allegations that shattered her sense of safety in her own home.

We talk about the stepfamily dynamics underneath all of this: loyalty binds, distorted narratives, moving goalposts, and the invisible emotional labour that often falls on the stepmum. This isn’t about diagnosing anyone. It’s about naming the structure — and the cost — when a blended family system keeps putting one adult in the firing line.

If you’ve ever thought, “It would be easier if I disappeared,” or “I don’t know how to do this without losing myself,” you’ll feel deeply seen here.

What you’ll learn

• Why high-conflict stepfamily dynamics create chronic anxiety
• How loyalty binds can shape what children say (and why it destabilises you)
• What false accusations do to trust, safety, and confidence
• Why “being kind” isn’t the same as being safe
• How to set boundaries without hardening your heart
• How to protect your peace when co-parenting isn’t possible

 If you’re a stepmum who feels on edge around contact, worries you’ll be blamed, or is carrying the emotional load of a difficult blended family — this episode is for you.

 If Stepmum Space helps, you can follow/subscribe so new episodes land automatically. And if you know another stepmum dealing with a high-conflict ex, feel free to share this with her.

www.stepmumspace.com/stepmumreset

Ready for structured support?

If you’re living with anticipatory anxiety before contact, walking on eggshells at home, or constantly replaying conversations long after they’ve happened, Back in Control is my structured programme for stepmums navigating complex stepfamily dynamics.

It’s designed to help you move out of chronic vigilance and into steadiness inside your own home.

Learn more:
 www.stepmumspace.com/back-in-control

Transcript

Katie South 6:31

So evening, Claire. Hi. How are you doing? Really good, thank you.

Clare 6:37

Good, good. Have you had a good day? Um, I'd like kind of. It's been a bit of a stressful day to be honest at work, a lot of um emergency work. Um, but it's taken all day, but I'm glad I'm home.

unknown 6:49

Yeah.

Clare 6:50

And now you get to talk to me. Yes, exactly. I'm offloading.

Katie South 6:54

Good. Well, that's that's the joy, isn't it? Everyone, everyone understands how you feel and you can offload whilst also knowing that you're doing a good deed for the stepmums of the world.

unknown 7:04

Yes.

Katie South 7:06

So look, when you got in touch with me, I listened to your voice note and it blew my mind a bit because you're dealing with quite a lot. So, do you want to tell us just a little bit about how you met your partner and what your step world looks like?

Clare 7:20

So I met my husband actually online in 2014. Talked a couple of weeks beforehand, and I actually asked him out on a date, which was like not like me at all. Love that. Yeah, so it's like me kind of stepping out of my comfort zone, trying to kind of like, right, you've fallen for the wrong kind of guys, let's just do a little bit different and see how it goes. And we just got on really well chatting, and I just thought, oh, whatever. And girls at work were like, go for it, go for it, go for it, Claire. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. And it was literally, you want to come for a drink, brilliant. And then we met up literally like a day later, after work in the local town, and it was that literally like we met, had the greatest first day. We were just really, it was really refreshing because it was really open on both sides, and he literally quite early on was like told me his situation. He has four kids, he had an ex-wife, so he's got two boys with his ex-wife, and then he's got two young girls with his ex-girlfriend. So, with his ex-wife, he's got two boys, and they would have been eight and five at the time, and then the two girls they were 18 months and six months, so really little. That's a lot for you. I must have blocked it, but I was like, Yeah, you know, people my age, you're gonna have kids, you know. And I've always I've always loved children, I've always wanted children of my own. I worked in the I worked as a healthcare assistant and did lots of nanny, and it was kind of my thing. I was like, I love kids, it doesn't matter, like it was fine, it's not a worry at all. And it was like, I think I must have not really thought about, yeah, he's got kids, but I'm not I'm not dating them, I'm dating you. But I think the more and more obviously we got to know each other, the more dates and stuff like that. It was obviously more apparent, and you always have like your friends and stuff, he's got a lot of kids. It's not really bothered me. It's what we did talk about when we would introduce me to them, and I was very much like, oh no, let's not meet them yet, maybe six months in, and then we'll go on like day dates and stuff with the kids and do something nice, don't want to force it because they're really young, and I kind of wanted to make sure that this was a relationship that I was gonna stick by. Yeah, so that's how we met, and it was refreshing. But we both on the get-go first date, he said, I want to marry you. Literally the first date. Oh, it was lovely.

Katie South 9:58

I was like, you know, it's so funny because my husband told me he loved me on our third date, and I remember being like, No, you don't, you're just like you're just saying it, you're just having some moment of infatuation. It was a starry night, you know, we had a glass of wine, it was romantic by the water. But I remember thinking in my head, like, oh my god, like this is what it's meant to feel like, yeah. And having, you know, just just those feelings when when you're you know, I've got a friend of mine who she's been married over 20 years, and she says to me, My heart still does flip-flops when my husband walks in the room. And I used to think, yeah, right. And uh, you know, now I'm like, oh my god, like I totally get it.

Clare 10:43

So I can I can imagine on that night your husband said, or your then date saying, I'm gonna marry you, and you being kind of like, Oh yay, but also I mean, yeah, I've had bad relationships, and it was kind of in the back of my oh, you just say, but oh, it's made me feel really good kind of situation. And it's like honest to God, it was literally felt like a bit of a fairy tale. We were 34, and I was like, Oh, I'm finally found the guy I was supposed to be with. I you know, I'm a I am a bit of a one of um a bit of a like it will happen for a reason, it will happen in the right time, you know. Or say to I even say to my stepkids, like it won't if it's meant to be, it's meant to be like things happen, like you don't always get what you want, but it will make you think about it to get to the right direction you need to be. So don't be you know, have your moment, be sad or whatever if you don't have what you have, but things happen for a reason, and I truly believe that that's difficult to kind of like drill it into detailed, isn't it? Yeah, everything at the moment is like really instant and everything's on the phone, and I want this, I want this, and yeah, it's difficult.

Katie South 11:53

You mentioned that the boys were eight and five, and the girls were eighteen months and six months, yeah. So had your partner been quite recently separated?

Clare 12:05

So yeah, it'd been about a year at the time, and he was like, you know, been separated uh for about a year and a bit. As you can imagine, that wasn't the greatest of relationships, which has obviously led to how everything is at the moment, as far as my situation at the moment is not great with his ex.

Katie South 12:24

Okay, just so I'm making sure I'm understanding the ex-ex-wife with the two boys. The relationship with her is okay.

Clare 12:33

Great, brilliant. Met the boys on fireworks night in 2014. They wanted to meet me, and I was like, Yeah, absolutely fine. And so we did that, and then it gradually, like, we saw them all. So I went and met up with the ex-wife, absolutely lovely. She literally got remarried that same year. She'd um had experience with my husband's ex, so knew the situation, didn't want to be in with the you know, the kid's father's other half, and we just spoke, we we chatted, and she got to know me, got to know her, and that's how it should be. And we just had the same mentality about how to bring up the kids all together, and we communicated really well, like any concerns, and you know, sometimes the kids would try and play us off each other's, but we were very good and comfortable and respectful of each other to say, really, if something went wrong, we would talk to each other or something, but that wasn't my intention, for you know, if I made you feel bad or whatever, really apologize, and vice versa. And she's lovely, she'd always say, like, thank you very much for being in my boys' lives, really a massive asset, and they you know they love you for it. And I truly believe that they're where they're because of my involvement as well, which is lovely. You don't do it for that. I just like you want to try and guide them in the right place, and they're doing great.

Katie South 14:00

It sounds, and I'm sure we're gonna come on to it, but it sounds like ex-girlfriend with the two young girls. The relationship was a bit more fractious than perhaps ex-wife with the older kids, was maybe relieved that there was somebody else and could therefore sit kind of work out right how are we gonna do this from the beginning so it works well for us.

Clare 14:22

Absolutely, and I think that's learned from yeah, mistakes were made before and wants to do it the right way this time. You know, there isn't a set thing, there isn't a wrong or right way, it's just uh making sure you talk and you you are on as much on the same page as possible. Um, at the end of the day, I'm only an asset to help them do the bringing up of the kids. And my husband's very much like, no, no, no, you are, you know, when the kids are with us, they're your kids. I'm like, Yeah, they are, but they're not. I don't want to get you know, people some people get upset about that, you know, calling that you can't call them your kids, they're your stepchildren. I'm like, Well, yeah, they are, but they know that, but it's easier sometimes to say they're my kids because they are.

Katie South 15:05

I have a lot of conversations with women in our coaching sessions around labels and names and what you call people, and I think it's really difficult because you're always in so many situations gonna get how many kids have you got? And I always got really conscious that when I was with like my biological kids and my stepdaughter, people say to me, 'Oh, do your children want to do this?' You just kind of want to go with it because you don't want to make anyone feel less than or different.

Clare 15:33

Exactly. You know, there were a couple of occasions when it would be me and my stepdaughters out and about, and some people have come up and said, Oh, they're really polite and they're really well behaved because they were and are. And it goes, Oh, you know, your daughters are you know lovely, but it's just easier to say, Oh no, they must it could kind of like I don't want to make them feel awkward that they've made the assumption that they're my children, but I also like oh dude, I should have said that. And that was like, and one of the oldest stepdaughters did say once I thought, Why did you I'm like sometimes you know that you're my stepdaughter, and it's fine. I said, But sometimes it's just it's easier just to go on because they don't need to know the ins and outs of our family. And he goes, as long as we know, that's fine, isn't it? And then she was like, Yeah, okay, that's fine. Yeah, but I would explain, but there is a kind of fine line about it. And I know some people, when I've spoken about it, when they've got no experience of being a stepmum or in that situation, they do get quite offended by it and said, Oh, I don't know how I'd feel about that. That someone else is calling my children their children.

Katie South 16:38

I'm like, okay, it's all contextual, isn't it? Like, I've definitely had the same with my stepdaughter because physically she looks very like me and my biological daughter. And if if people ever say, like, oh, your daughters, I would never say, well, actually, that one's mine and that one's not. It's just rude, isn't it?

Clare 16:58

And it's like, you know, it made that your stepdaughter feel a bit left out of yeah, it is a massive fine, but you know, as long as everyone in the need to know, no, it's absolutely fine.

Katie South 17:09

And sometimes I remember when my stepdaughter was really little, a similar thing like that happened. And I said to her afterwards, Oh, I know I was so like when I look back now, I was so worried about saying anything that might upset her mum or might might make her feel uncomfortable. I remember like making this whole thing about I do know I'm not your mum, but I just said that in the moment. Bless her, she was only little and she said, Oh, I like it when people think you're my mum.

Clare 17:33

I have had that, and again, it's just it, I mean, I still to this day now, like if I'm with the girls, um, I have to and I have to think about what I'm saying because it's been it's been horrible in respects of like it will be and it's always been like that for 11 years. They'll come over, they'll stay with us for whatever a lot of time we've got, and then go back. And it is literally like the Spanish Inquisition that she will literally grill the girls, what they did, how you know, where'd you go, where did you buy that, la la la la la, and all this kind of stuff. And if the girls said something, she would then turn it around, and then literally within half an hour and an hour of the girls being home, my husband would get messages or phone calls like, How dare she, blah blah blah, and I'm like, Oh god, and I can remember distinctly it was really bizarre. The first ever time really I've met the girls properly. She was like, Oh, my mum doesn't like you like this. I'm like, okay, go. And but she goes, but she will know because that was her opinion of me, like she liked me, and she goes, Well, if I like her, mum then should like her. Kind of see. I'm like, Oh, that's really good. It's it's nice to have heard that at the time because actually the first time I ever met the girls was forced on me at the time. So so we met in the August, started dating, and then we're back and forth spending time together at each other's houses, and then she was somehow knew that I would be staying around his house, which was literally two minutes around the corner from the house, and it was like that so that he could be close by to the girls. And every time I was around, she would say, You need to be back, you need to come around because the oldest stepdaughter she can't get to sleep and she's unsettled, so he would have to go around and do all that, but it was nothing like that. It was November time because we were gonna go away for remembrance in London, woke a Saturday, knock, knock, knock on the door. My husband goes down, come back up, he goes, Oh, it's my ex, she wants to speak to us, and she had the girls with them. I was like, Right, okay. Put whatever I can on, pajamas and whatever, went down into the kitchen, and she was there.

Katie South 19:46

The eldest one was in like a one seat with a toy, and then the youngest one was in her car seat, and then she was standing with So at the moment, because obviously this is audio only, I'm like sitting here looking through my fingers. It's like, oh my god, this story, what is gonna happen? Claire's got her hands on her hips doing this impression of territorial bio mum with a car seat in one hand, and all I can think is like these poor little girls, what is about to happen?

Clare 20:16

So all she wanted to do was try and make me see sense. You know what I mean? Did you know he owes me money? Did you know he's been doing this and da la la la la and uh and he cheated on me and he was been with these people and all this? I'm like, whoa. I said, I know he owes you money because you went on holiday and that was the agreement that you would pay for it, and he was paying you back. I knew that he'd be dating someone because he's not in a relationship with you. Of course, he's seen other people before me, and I know about them, and it just came on and it just went on and on. And I'd stood up, so I wasn't sitting down, so I'm like, I'm not sitting down, I'm not having this person like trying to be dominant and you know all this kind of stuff. Yes, Claire. I know. So I was like really calm, and they're they might as well sit in there looking at me. And I'm like, I I know all of this, we're very open, we knew about it, and she generally looked really shocked at the time that I actually did know about a lot of the stuff that she was bringing up, so it wasn't to her advantage, she didn't have that control. Bearing in mind the children are still on the floor stated next to her, and she shouted, she's doing this all in front of them, right? And then got to the point where she started asking me, I can't remember what the questions were and whatever, and then she wouldn't let me answer. And then my husband kind of stepped in. She was like saying, Oh, look, shut your face and stuff like that. Do you not know who I am? And I'm like, I don't care who you are in profession-wise, because it's got nothing to do with that, it's about you being a mum and him being a dad to the girls, and she lost it. She goes, If you don't get out of my effing way, I'm gonna punch you and stuff like this. And this is when my husband was like, right, get out now. He went to the front door, opened it, and gestured to her to like, you need to leave right now, because now I've asked you three times, you're trespassing. All he did was I've stood outside the kitchen, she was right in front of me. The girls were still on the floor standing behind her. My husband opened the door, and he then went to her and gestured like hand out and kind of like touched to like kind of like this is you need to move. She was like throwing her hands around like this, pushing him. He literally had to move her to the door, and she was punching him. This is in front of the kids, and then obviously the kids are crying, and I'm stood there and I'm thinking, it's okay, let's come in here, la la la. And then it ended up going outside, and but she'd fallen back and she'd hit her head on the floor. She got up and then obviously launched herself again at my husband. And my husband's actually an ex-police officer, so he pinned her with her arm against this, and all she was doing, like, go on, I dare you, go on, hit me, hit me, hit me. And that was when, right, okay. He stepped away, he went upstairs. She came coming in, and she goes, Like, you're making a really mistake, I'm gonna call the police. And um, and I at this point I'm still really calm, I haven't lost it. And I was helping the girls put their boots on. She goes, Don't you dare touch my children, pick them up, and they were obviously still crying. Walked out and said, You know, he'll cheat on you too, and all it goes, well, that's my my prerogative, and that's me to experience if that ever happens. And she's on the phone to the police. We heard her pick up, and that was reported. So that was the first time I met the girls.

Katie South 24:40

Bloody hell. I think you win. I think you uh win the most hideous, hideous introduction to the ex and your stepkids that I've heard. If anyone's got a more dramatic one, let me know. But I oh god, I don't know where to start with that. You mentioned she said, Oh, don't you know who I am? So, and you said, Oh, not it doesn't matter who you are professionally. So, who who is she professionally?

Clare 25:06

So, she is actually a family solicitor, she deals with this on a daily basis, she deals with divorces, child separation, you know, all that kind of uh child protection, all that kind. This is what she does on a day-to-day basis. Wow, I didn't see that one coming. Really doesn't put a good light on the family system if you have certain people like her representing other people and giving other people advice when she is conducting herself in such a manner in her personal life with her own children.

Katie South 25:40

Okay, because I'm trying to wrap my head around this because I like to try and see things from everyone's point of view. So she's got these two really young girls who were like 18 months and six months when you guys got together. Yeah. So, like, that's two kids really on the bounce, which is hard. And they split up when she was pregnant of her choice. I'm not excusing it, but like meant postnatal depression.

Clare 26:08

Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. Uh you know, it's something that we discussed with me and my husband. I'm like, she's not right, but the thing is though, even if you kind of suggested it in a nice way to say, like, to have some support or anything like even now suggesting anything, she would go off on one. Absolutely. You know, I did have that. We did have a discussion.

Katie South 26:28

I said that's we think that she is suffering from that, or or something else, and it's not to say it's her not her fault, but when you've gone through it for such a long time, it's kind of like you can have one or two situations because of I don't know, like your hormones or your mental health or whatever's going on, but to repeatedly demonstrate those same behaviours, you you can't, you can't. I feel for those kids so much, and yeah, I I was surprised, given what the interaction had been when you first met them, that you just said she left your husband.

Clare 27:08

She was the one that wanted to end the relationship. She didn't allow my husband in the delivery room for the set for the younger child. She completely didn't want in, he wanted to be involved. Like she was like very much accusing him of cheating and stuff like that. So he he was like, Okay, well, whatever, I'll go. Which is why he kind of lived close by because he wanted that's the only time like he wanted to be involved, he didn't just leave it, but she made it very difficult. And if it's if it's not how she wanted or accommodating her, if he had something on, she would then massively kick off. Like, you are you at my beck and call? But I think that's what the issue is with me because he met me that he wasn't there at her beck and call. But the thing is, she used the kids against him. Like, if you don't do this, you're not gonna see the kids all the time. Not long after that, there was another incident again. My husband went to go and watch the eldest daughter do a bit of swimming before we were gonna go away. Said goodbye and went and drove back, but she was chasing him in the car on the way back, so he stopped off. He goes, Oh, why why? He goes, Oh, so your eldest wants to say bye because I already did that. But there's no need for you to speed and be at my back end with the kids in the car. He ended it, opened the back, undid the buckle, and went to go and give one of them a cuddle. She then tried to drive off. He managed to then put the seatbelt back on, close the door, and then get in his car. She got the youngest and plonked here on the bonnet of his car to stop him from driving away. He managed to get away and drove back to where I was. I was at his house getting ready. He came in and goes, You never know what happened. And whilst he was telling me this, she wrapped up at the front, dropped the kids off at the doorstep, and drove off. Oh my god. So he had to go downstairs, obviously, get the girls, sort them out. They were drenched, they'd snot coming down their face. And she had the audacity to call him and said, You need to drop the girls at my dad's.

Katie South 29:21

So, was she trying to prevent you guys from going away? Oh, yeah, for sure. It's quite dramatic way to do it. Okay, so I must oh god, what is wrong with these people? And like you're like wrecking your own children. What the fuck? So these children. I mean, I can't imagine how terrified, confused they are. And I guess having a baby, it's difficult. But what was the contact agreement?

Clare 29:51

If if at all there was one that she was no court, there's no court order, there still isn't court ordered, it's not like that. It even if you mentioned it, or if she was very she's very much threats it all the time. But when we said, okay, then go ahead, we'll go to court, it will never happen. Uh, she would always then, oh, we need some mediation, and then it was like drop. But then when we decide that we need mediation, she goes, I'm not going to mediation, there's no need for it. So with the family courts to keep him get in there, they would prefer obviously go mediation first, and then you do C 100 forms and stuff like that. So we've looked into it all. At the time before I arrived, I think it was as and when. And then when I got involved, she stopped him from seeing the kids after these few encounters. It used to be on a Sunday, and then no contact whatsoever. And it was about a year she stopped him from doing that. So for a year he didn't get to see his kids. Yeah. She would call him and promise him that he could all these time, and then say no, you can't, and kind of take that away. And then she started letting him see him on a Sundays, but I wasn't allowed to be involved. So yes, he'd go off and go and see the girls, have his day, no overnights and stuff. It was just a Sunday, but it had to be where she lived. I mean, he couldn't bring them back where we lived. And then after we got married in 2016, it was about a month afterwards. She then decided all of a sudden I was allowed to be involved. And it had to be every other weekend. I'm allowing you, I'm letting you. That's the kind of language she uses. But Claire's I'm not allowed to be alone with them.

Katie South 31:35

So girls are two and four at this point. Miraculously, she decides you're allowed to see them every other weekend. I'm confused though, because and this is no like slight on your husband because I see the pressure that guys are under. But what has stopped him during those two years of trying to get contact when she was she was preventing it?

Clare 31:59

Oh, he tried calling, tried to, as I said, she would say, Oh, you can, and you very much like want to go, we'll do this, I'll meet here, we'll do that. Very accommodating, but then she'd just snappy like, No, we can't do it, it's not convenient for her.

Katie South 32:13

And because she wouldn't do mediation, he couldn't go to court. Is that right?

Clare 32:17

Yeah, and plus we really couldn't afford it at the time. Yeah, it was just one of the things he was really in a bad place mentally, but he tried not to show it a lot of the time. And there was a point where he got to the point where he was deciding, like, I'm gonna relinquish my fatherly responsibilities, like, I'm let her just gonna let her just go and just completely disattach myself because it's that bad. Bearing in mind, this man had to ordeal, like the relationship they had without the girls was actually quite abusive one from her point of view towards him, very financially, mentally, emotionally abusive. And how these girls come about, you wouldn't say was consensual to a point, but she was very much this is what she wanted, and he was just a uh someone that she could have kids with. He never used to be allowed out, wasn't allowed to go for a drink, and to still be in contact with her, he still he still struggles with that because of the past relationship he had, and and she is quite manipulated. You could probably say very narcissistic traits, because you know, when you read stuff of that, he's like, Oh, god, that is what she does. And we read a lot of like how to kind of manage a lot of what she says, because she will use the girls against him every single time, you're not making the effort, and the girls know that, and they they keep saying that, oh well, dad's not making the effort. If it even if it's just like going to pick them up somewhere, I'm like, Well, it's 20 minutes to you and then 20 minutes back. If you're already coming this way, why can't you just drop the girls off? I take them here, there, and everywhere all the time, anyway. We can't co-parent with her.

Katie South 33:56

When you've got somebody who is so prepared to use their children in that way, even if you had 50-50, it's someone who has a significant amount of time with your child, there's no point in fighting it, but it's so painful to watch a child saying something that you know isn't their words, it's just something that they feel they should say because they know that's what their mum wants them to say.

Clare 34:27

It's really difficult, and you know, sometimes you hear it and it's like you, but you can see it on their face that they don't mean it, but it's something that's learned. Sometimes it does take you back, and it's difficult sometimes not to react to that vocabulary that they use, knowing that it's not them, you know, as they get older, they are gonna have that vocabulary because it's like they've turned into teenagers and they say hurtful things and stuff. So we find it difficult sometimes to differentiate what is actually being said now as they're older, as they're if it's their mum saying it, or if it is actually them. And I think it's mainly because their whole reality is so distorted by what's been going on and what they believe, and what actually has happened or hasn't happened, and what's been fed to kind of fill in the gaps that they'd have you know, do you know what I mean?

Katie South 35:16

And also there's that whole thing about you guys, and I see it a lot, the dad and the stepmum really are a safe space, but the child has not been, let's say, encouraged to think that. What you end up with is a very, very confused child whose sense of reality is distorted because they're like, But my mum says that, my mum says that, and we know that children are biologically wired to have that for the most part with their mum. So you're gonna end up just creating somebody who doesn't really know what's right. And I really, really, really struggle, especially when you see, and I know it shouldn't make a difference, but you know, this is somebody who's an educated, articulate woman who quite frankly should know better.

Clare 36:05

Yeah, and you say well educating and someone going through the whole education and putting a lot of work in. At the moment, her attitude to her kids' education is really poor. Attendance is bad because she can't be bothered to take them. If my husband doesn't pick them up, you're guaranteed that the girls aren't going to go to school or catch a bus, bus to school, because she can't be bothered.

Katie South 36:28

When you say that actually, I thought, yeah, I should check myself because it's an easy assumption to make that just because somebody is book educated on paper, that I remember actually my mum saying to me, I was talking about something and saying, I just can't really believe it because the person in question is quite well educated. And my mum was like, no, no, no, don't make that mistake. Don't think that just because somebody's well educated, got a good job, that they actually either understand human behaviour or the right way to parent, the right way to co-parent, or even worse, they know the right way, they're just choosing not to do it. That's that's like the worst of the worst, right?

Clare 37:09

I think it's a bit of both. I think they're just they're the grasp on reality and how other people, majority of people, it's just not there, like their social skills and they're just common sense and just very well educated, but just in life, just having a grasp on human interaction, what they say, how they come across is really bizarre. It's quite funny though, because there are experiences where she is blatantly like, This is my this is true, this is how I feel, this is what's happened, and then you all talk like weeks and it'll be flipped, and she will be doing what you suggested.

Katie South 37:45

But it was her idea, kind of that's really, really, really hard to keep up with. My ex-husband over the years has had certain like rules about things, and once I get used to like, okay, so now he wants to operate around these rules, so we'll do that, and then suddenly, like, the rules change, and I'll be like, But hang on, but you said that you know you could only do swaps in school holidays, but now you want to swap in but what? And he's like, Oh no, no, that was from before. And I'm like, I can't, I can't keep up.

Clare 38:13

That's the thing that we've had to really, really, really adapt throughout the years to be super, super flexible. It's no bother for us. Whatever the girls need, she doesn't work in an office, she works at home. She's very flexible, and if she does need to go into court and whatever, that's what she does. With me and my husband, we've got office jobs, we're as flexible as we can be in terms of changing the dates and stuff like that. But she'll make up, but you're very easy changing. Don't you want to see the kids? I'm like, no, that's not the case at all. You're asking us to change it, and we're very accommodating that we're not making it difficult to change that agreement or an arrangement. She'll cry for help and say, I'm really struggling. And my husband's like, Yeah, yeah, fine, we'll have them. But in the next hours or days later, she'll change it. Oh no, they don't want to do it now. Stop blaming on the children. You asked for help because you're tired or you're not feeling great, or just need a bit of time away from the children. Absolutely acceptable. We're here to help, but because we've been that accommodating, she hates it. It's taken years to be honest. We literally don't engage in her at all, unless it is literally about the kids.

Katie South 39:28

I was gonna say 11 years of this, you seem to have it pretty well together, but I can't imagine it's too easy.

Clare 39:38

I do now, it got really bad about three years ago to the point where me and my husband did split up. And there are other factors, but she was actually one of the main ones. Um, she was just constantly on us and me and blaming me for everything. It was just getting in my head. But because I didn't want to have or couldn't have contact with, she just wouldn't engage me, it'd have to go through my husband. It's annoying to like when someone has a go at you or calling you by names, you instantly want to like, I'm gonna defend myself, but I want to do it to you, but I couldn't. So I'd have to go through my husband, and then he was getting like stop, just stop, let you know, and I get to you, and I was like, it's not that easy. I said, You're able to like have a go at her to a point. I can't. Um I'm being told I'm being blamed for this, and the girl said this about me, or I'm not allowed to do this, how you know, all this kind of stuff, and it gets really draining. What sort of stuff would she say? Just like the girl said that I stopped them from doing things, or they didn't like me telling them off, or it was a stupid thing, but you know, it gets to the point where it's not stupid, sick sick and tired of it. Like just leave me alone, let me Surely me loving your girls is a massive bonus. I could be terrible and horrible to your kids, but I'm not. I did try to reach out to her and I did explain I wasn't allowed to help with homework. That's my husband's job. I'm like, but sometimes when the girls are with us, they have homework, and my husband still has to work, and I'm there to support. Of course I'm gonna help with homework. Of course I'm gonna write in the book to say they've read their book, they've done this, they've done that, they did really, really well. She hated it. And it was like she's not allowed to do this if she does that, and they go, You're not gonna see the girls, or I'm gonna take you to court. Oh, it's so tiring. What are you gonna do? Like get an injunction against the reading diary, or I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, so yeah, we split and we still chatted and we were trying to build back our relationship, but I didn't push myself on the children and I left it to them if they wanted to. And I always said, You can always message me, call me whenever, but I'm you know, I'm not gonna force you in it. And it got to the point where this was not, you know, coming into months when we first split, that she was expressing to my husband that the girls are now saying that they miss me a lot, and they were getting really upset, and she could see actually my involvement with the girls being stability from our side was actually a good thing because they weren't being stable at the moment. So she allowed them then to start messaging me and us, you know, doing that, and then we would FaceTime and I would meet up with them if my husband was working, it was his time to have the kids. I would offer to be with them whilst he was working. He was seeing someone else at this time as well. They didn't want to spend time with that other person, so I used to offer when he was working, I would see the girls, but if he wasn't working, it was his time, then I wouldn't be in Groaching on that at all, whatsoever. That's his time. More and more we we were meeting up, and she was really like because Claire's their only stable person in life, it's only me and her that they were the parents, and I'm like, is she all right? Because for the past or however many years, I've been the bad person, and I'm I'm not good for the girls. But now, because the girls really have expressed how they felt and missed and stuff like that, she was now still grating my husband and telling me he's like a deadbeat that how dare you! You you know, good for nothing. But Claire and me are the only parents that they've got in their lives, and you know, so grateful that she can, you know, still be in their lives and saying that Claire was the best thing that's ever happened to you. And I'm like, what is this? This is complete 180. And I'm like, I feel really unnerved about the whole thing. Yeah. And she even started texting him and saying, Oh, you know, I really thought about if anything happened to me, I've spoken to the girls and they've really expressed that if anything happens to me, they wanted Claire to be their guardian and look after them as well as you. And so I'm thinking of changing my will.

Katie South 43:47

So, like you go from you're not allowed to write in the reading diary to I'm gonna rewrite my will and give you my kids.

Clare 43:54

Yeah, I don't need your permission, she was saying to him, but uh oh you know, I just wanted to put it to you and I will speak to her myself. And I was like, My God, this is really bizarre. You must really love those girls. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, they're 18 months and six months, and then you you you build such a great they're great personality, great kids, they have their moments, and all kids do, and it we did have a really good bond. I'm hoping we still do. Um, I mean, I haven't seen them for a long time, and that was my choice due to certain situations that's happened recently, but I've had to.

Katie South 44:29

So I just want to go back. So you've gone from you're not allowed to write in the reading diary, you're not allowed to be unsupervised with the children to potentially if something awful happened to her, she wants you to look after her children. And a lot of people will be listening thinking, my god, if I was you, when me and my husband stood up, I would have run for the fucking hills, not hung out with the ex. What compelled you to have this generosity within you that I think if we're if we're honest, a lot of us wouldn't have done that. We would have gone into self-preservation and see ya mode.

Clare 45:00

Don't get me wrong, it was a really big reflection time for me, big reflection time on me and my husband's relationship. There were certain other aspects in there that I won't go into, but you know, all the other stuff. It just comes to realisation it's like you can fix it if we talk to you. It was bad communication between us, lack of intimacy just due to feeling crap, and just having someone else just all that kind of stuff. And the time apart was a really good lesson and build up, and we just fell back in love with each other, and it kind of happened exactly the same as how we first met, same length of time we dated again to when we moved back in together, it's exactly the same time of how it was when we first met. But in between that time, I did a lot of work on myself because I wanted to, and yes, lots of people would have just gone, see ya, bye bye, not gonna deal with the crap anymore. But because I really did love him, and I really thought that this is something I've always said to him a jokingly, it's like we're never getting a divorce, by the way. Just because I that was my experience, my parents are still together, they've been married 40 something years with the kids. Again, it's not their fault, it's got nothing to do with them, it was never their fault. I would feel if I was a child and I had people in my life or a person in my life that I've had a really good bond with, and all of a sudden, because something happened elsewhere, I've been punished for it, and I can't see that person. So that's why I kind of like stayed around and made it their decision whether they wanted to speak with me or meet up with me, never forced them. And I always made that very clear. And obviously, if me and my husband didn't get back together, they still had the option of seeing me. I wasn't gonna stop them from doing again. I did exactly the same with the boys. Obviously, they were a lot older, but we all had like dates. Went to the cinema, um, yeah, and I did it with the girls. We'd take them out, we'd have a day date, we'd go and I'll take them to the cinema and stuff like that, and then drop them back at his house at the time. Going back to her about the whole like now doing the whole 180 thing, apparently, from the text message that I'd seen from my husband that she'd sent him, the reason why she then decided that she didn't hate me was because I was on the same size as she was, as in I'd been cheated on like she'd been cheated on. I'm like, no, no, no, that's not the case at all. That's just not so she felt that we had something in common in that aspect. It was really bizarre. I went to see the girls because they ride horses and stuff, they were doing a little competition, and she was there with her partner. Bearing in mind all this time she had partners, had long-term, like she's been had it's not like she was single the whole time, she's had long-term relationships. What and what on earth were they like? They were lovely, but they've been fed a lot of stuff, which we know because we're actually good friends with one of them who had his own kids. He had two boys at the time, and she did the whole, like, yeah, this is gonna be happy families, the boys can stay here when you have the kids, and we do all this, and then slowly but surely she was kind of experienced being the stepmom from his ex-wife, who was just as horrible as she was, and it only lasted about I'd say four or five years on that relationship.

Katie South 48:30

You then obviously you decided to reconcile with your husband, yeah, and moved back in together. Yeah. At that point, you had been seeing the girls alone by yourself. The ex was very supportive of you. So, in my dream, like happy world, that would have been the moment where she's like, Okay, you're back together, but you're an amazing person.

Clare 48:54

Yeah, she came on an event, like she literally came up to me to apologize. You can tell it was just one of them, I've definitely been a bitch to you for however many years. So I'm gonna put the tears on because you know it is it's emotional for me, not for you. But I want that, I'm apologizing. Kind of it's not, it wasn't sincere. She came up, she started crying. She goes, I'm really sorry, blah blah blah, and hugged me. And I was like, Oh my god, kind of get away from me, but like, okay. And stupidly, I was one of them, like, oh, it's okay. Because I was like really shocked at the fact that she's apologizing to me after all these years, that she and she admit that she was being a bitch, and she was saying, It was because I was jealous of you, because you were playing happy families, and that's what I wanted. I'm like, we're not playing happy families, we were just happy. You could have that too if you weren't so miserable.

Katie South 49:46

I've got empathy for someone who's like, Oh, they're in a really happy relationship and a happy family, and I'm not like that's not nice. No, but you've got to recognise that, and then you don't punish the other people, and you especially don't punish your own kids. Where are you now in terms of both your marriage and your relationship with your stepdaughters?

Clare 50:14

Marriage is really good, better than it's ever been, you know, really strong after the experience that we've had and having lots of conversations about a lot of the times. It's like, you know, we do struggle sometimes with mental health and things like that, and it was difficult, especially with my husband having to express that it's kind of like he's the man, he shouldn't really show like this week. It's not it's not about we and he knows that, and it's some still to this day, you know, he struggles, and so and so do I, and we're very open about it now. Whereas before it's like I didn't really want to upset him that either I was struggling and it will then kind of dictate his moon, and I didn't want that, but now we're really open, but we know that it doesn't have to affect us. I'm just expressing I don't need you to fix it, and that's very much what I'll say. I said, I don't need you to fix this, I just need to then, or I will say, I just need advice, or something like that, of those lines, but it's very much like that with the kids. When we got back together at the beginning, was great because of the relationship with the girl's mum was great. She would message me, she would ask me advice about the girls when they're with her about certain behaviors, and I would just say it's absolutely fine, but I understand where you're coming from, but just let them be. But it was very much like she's just doing it for effects because she would just go against whatever I had said. I'm like, but I don't understand why you're asking me then. If you're still not, you know, okay with this. That came and continued okay, and then it started to creep in where she started not really giving a crap anymore. The fact that our relationship was on a good level, she would start playing her games again. So when we had the kids, oh um, you will pick them up at 10 and then you will bring them back at eight on this particular day. Okay, fine, that's okay. But then she would text at seven o'clock to say, I'm not gonna be out, I'm going to the cinema. I'm like, hold on a minute. You said drop them off at eight. I've made plans with my family or whatever. That's what she would start doing again. So then I was like saying to my husband, I'm not playing these games again because that's not helpful or healthy for the girls. They got really upset when their mum was saying this because they were scared that no one was gonna be home when I dropped them off. I said, as if I said, I'm not gonna drop you off when no one's at home, that's absolutely fine. To the point where the youngest daughter was crying because she was upset about what her mum was saying at this point. She was texting all of this via the girls, not direct to me or the husband, she was doing it via the girls. Tell your dad, tell Claire this, this, and this. My husband at this time said, She has to block your mum, so she can't text me up. So just look, it's just us enjoy our time together. She obviously we didn't unblock her number when I handed the girls back to her, and that was it.

Katie South 53:09

And then it started getting really bad after that. Now, post everything being great as soon as you got back together, then obviously tricky, challenging, very challenging. Where are you now with your relationship with the girls?

Clare 53:46

Uh, don't have one at the minute. It was sometime last year something had happened. I was blamed for it. I was accused of domestic abuse against the girls when none of that happened. They were with us. It was like every other weekend situation back again, or sometimes a little bit longer. Something had happened. One of the girls basically had an argument with my husband, teenage stuff, and something had happened, and they just blamed either me or my husband at the time for pushing them down the stairs. When in fact she slipped, because no one was near. I was at the bottom, and my husband was in the other room. Anyway, obviously went back, told the mum. She's then obviously that's it. I've got social service. My social service said that I'm not, you know, they're not coming. They'd started then messaging us again. So we knew that mum and allowing them to start talking to us. So then it started going back. And then the story read it's hubity heg again. One of the girls expressed something like this to a teacher, apparently, and said I'd pushed them down the stairs. Then they'd obviously then got councils for involved, and yeah, haven't seen them since April. I kind of decided that they were viewing things that I posted on social media and twisting it, or she was. So I'd literally deleted them off on my Facebook and Instagram and TikTok, whatever social media I had. At first, I blocked them from WhatsApp, but they still could text me, but then I'd unblock them and think, right, you know, just in case they needed it. I still had in mind, I was like, just in case they needed me and stuff. Um, yeah, I haven't heard them. But my husband still sees them and picks them up from school, which is absolute fine, and that's how it should be. He has spoken to them about me coming back into and seeing them, and it seemed positive. And that was really, really this was only yesterday that he actually had a chat with them and said, Oh, you know, they're misses you, and all that kind of stuff, and we'd like to see you again. And they were both really quite up for it, so that's really promising. But again, I'm not gonna be we're not gonna be forcing that, we're gonna make it very natural.

Katie South 55:54

What about you though? Because it's everything that you're saying is really nice, and obviously, it sounds like these girls have been hugely put in the middle by their mum. But what about your psychological safety at home? How do you really feel about seeing them?

Clare 56:10

Very nervous, really, really nervous, in fact. Like, I have anxiety about seeing them again. It's the whole, what can I say, that won't go back and be twisted. And but then again, I'm like, I'm not here to do things how she wants to do it. Like in my house, in my husband's house, this is how we are going to operate, and we always have. We've got we've always had a really good united direction of how our parenting would say with the curls, and it's always been the same with every single child. We've done exactly the same, whether there's no difference, like, oh no, the boys can do that because they're boys, or they're because they're that side. Never bedtime was the same, rules are the same, chores are the same, attitude, like their bad attitudes, but will be reacted exactly the same by me and the husband, all that kind of stuff. But I have said that I'm really quite anxious, and I have upset myself in thinking, do I really want to see them? And I'm kind of like, it would make my life a hella lot peacefully and calmer if they just weren't involved. And you feel I feel really bad for thinking about it sometimes, like really bad. And all I think back in the days where when I first met my husband, when he said he would give up being father to him, but it was me that pushed him to say, No, no, no, you have to have a relationship with your kids, and then you think about why did I push? Our lives would be so different, and like, why did I push? But but they're fleeting kind of like things, and I kind of say to myself, yes, I can feel like that because it's not reality, and I'm not that kind of person, I'm not kind of that kind of stepmum either. And I've always, always got the kids back, it's always what's best for them, and it yeah, breaks my heart that I don't have that relationship with kids on the girl side, and they have been massively, massively affected by this whole ordeal, and that's always been my main concern. If me not being in their lives makes their lives a lot easier living with their mum, then that is what I have to do because whatever involvement, just messaging them, you know, you can't, you why are you texting my daughter when they're with me or telling them what to do when they're with me? I'm their mother. If it makes their life a lot easier, that they don't get shouted at or even mentioning my name, you get the cold shoulder with them or just be treated really badly, then that's what I'll do.

Katie South 58:48

I feel like everything you're saying about wanting the best for them is so true. But I and I'm sure everybody listening as well, we we want the best for you as well. So, like, please, whatever you do, don't forget to put yourself in the mix because you talked about kind of mental health earlier. Yeah, and you can't prop everyone up and be there for everyone else whilst other people are constantly pulling you down. So at some point you've got to look after yourself as well. You can still be nice to everyone else, but don't let yourself get trampled on. I feel like this is an episode of my mum once said, but my mum also once said she's very wise. Very wise. It's annoying, she's always right. She once said to me, You can lay down as flat as you like, and some people will still walk all over you.

Clare 59:37

Very true. I know we've gone over we've gone for the whole thing, and yes, I do have to look after my mental health, and that from the split with my husband and stuff, it was a massive lesson, and I do put that in play because I'm an adult and I'm mentally more mature for me to handle it. But thinking of the kids, they're not, they've been involved in adult situations and discussions and arguments from a very young age, which has massively affected them. But through all of that crap, I do cling on to there are lots of positives and amazing things that I've had experiences with my kids, and I will call them my kids because they are in my eyes, you know, they give me joy, they make me chuckle, they do like silly things, you know, and they open up to me when they probably wouldn't open up to either my husband or whatever. And it's a nice little it's nice to feel inside your heart when you have that. And as much as it's shit at the minute, I know that I've put a positive stamp on their lives in some shape. And that and that is literally what I cling on to. And if anyone is looking thinking about getting involved and thinking about, oh no, I don't think I could, everyone's experience is totally different, and it might not happen to you, and you might get what. I have with my husband's ex-wife. It's really, really great. I have literally two halves. Yeah.

Katie South 1:00:57

Goodbye, Mum Lottery. Which one are you gonna get? There's a fun game no one wants to play. Look, it's been such a delight talking to you, Claire. Thank you so much for sharing and hope you get to where you want to get to in everything. And perhaps you could come back in a few months and let us know how things are going.

Clare 1:01:18

Absolutely, I'd love to. Thank you for having me.