Stepmum Space

Stepmum Burnout: Doing Everything but Still The Villain

• Katie South

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You can give everything to a stepfamily and still feel like the villain in your own home.

This is what stepmum burnout really looks like when dad won’t lead and the children turn on you.

What happens when you jump into stepfamily life with the best intentions… and four years later you’re emotionally exhausted, resented, and questioning whether you can keep doing this?

In this powerful conversation, Jane shares the reality of becoming the default parent in her blended family while having none of the authority, safety, or support that role requires. What began as helping her partner establish routines and boundaries for his children slowly turned into Jane carrying the emotional, practical, and mental load of parenting every other weekend — while being treated as the villain.

You’ll hear how stepmum burnout creeps in quietly: through bedtimes, shoes at the door, meal planning, managing behaviour, navigating an ex-partner’s interference, and trying to protect children who are clearly struggling emotionally but beyond her influence.

This episode explores the painful space many stepmums recognise:
 doing everything out of care… and being resented for it.

We talk about disengaging without guilt, the danger of over-functioning, dad’s guilt-based parenting, loyalty binds in children, and why sometimes stepping back is the healthiest move for everyone.

If you’ve ever thought, “I’m giving so much and getting nothing back,” this episode will feel uncomfortably familiar — and deeply validating.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

  • Why stepmum burnout often comes from over-functioning, not under-caring
  • How guilt-based parenting from dads leaves stepmums carrying the load
  • The emotional toll of being cast as the villain for basic boundaries
  • What healthy disengaging actually looks like in a stepfamily
  • How loyalty binds show up as hostility towards stepmums
  • Why protecting your own mental health is sometimes the most loving move
  • The difference between caring for stepchildren and parenting them

This is for you if you’re a stepmum who…

  • feels responsible for everything when the children are with you
  • is exhausted from managing routines, meals, behaviour and emotions
  • feels like the villain for asking for basic respect in your own home
  • worries constantly about your stepchildren but has no real authority
  • feels resentful, guilty, and burnt out all at the same time
  • has a partner who says he “backs you” but doesn’t when it matters

If this conversation resonated, make sure you’re following Stepmum Space on Apple or Spotify so you don’t miss future episodes.
You can also explore more support, tools, and workshops for stepmums at Stepmum Space.

And if you know another stepmum who needs to hear this, share it with her today.

Ready for structured support?

If you’re living with anticipatory anxiety before contact, walking on eggshells at home, or constantly replaying conversations long after they’ve happened, Back in Control is my structured programme for stepmums navigating complex stepfamily dynamics.

It’s designed to help you move out of chronic vigilance and into steadiness inside your own home.

Learn more:
 www.stepmumspace.com/back-in-control

Support the show

Katie South

So welcome Jane. I'm so happy to have you here with me today. Ah, thanks for having me. Before we kick off into the depths of your story, could you share a little bit about you and your family?

Jayne

Yeah, I've been with my partner for four years now and met him. Actually, we were friends for probably three years before we actually got together. He has been married before with two children. And when I came into his line, they were just shy of two years old and six years old. We lived about two hours apart. We met three family friends and we've known each other pretty much all our lives without realizing if that makes sense. And then we were reunited at an event and that happened, ended up being friends, stayed in touch, ended up realising actually we probably quite like each other. So yeah, we were two hours apart, so it meant it was weekends that we would see each other, but then we were limited to every other weekend if I was not to meet the children. But it was so new, we were like, Oh, I just want to see you, I just want to see you. So we decided I'll bite the bullet, and actually, looking back, I definitely jumped in way too soon.

Katie South

When you guys met and the kids were two and six, how long after starting dating him did you start spending time with the kids?

Speaker 1

We probably started in the May, and then his family friends that obviously we met three, had a big holiday, and we were both going, so we ended up having a holiday, and then we got back, and it was literally yeah, so probably four or five months. It was long distance, we hadn't seen huge amounts of each other, it's mostly phones, and yeah, so very early on.

Katie South

Yeah, but I guess on the flip side, because you've been friends a long time and you know each other's families, it's a new relationship, but you've got that, you know, you've probably got that trust that you've built up and that confidence that actually now it's moved from friends to a couple. I'm really confident in where this is going.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it did feel like that, and it just felt natural. It didn't feel like, oh, you shouldn't be meeting them. It just felt like, oh, okay, he's got two children and less, just that's cool. That's what I thought.

Katie South

And so if you'd known him a long time, had you known his ex-wife? I knew who she was.

Speaker 1

I've met her once, but because of circumstances, I only ever heard negative stories, so it wasn't like we were ever friends. Yeah. And then were the kids on the group holiday?

Katie South

He was divorced, and we were already dating by then, so no. Uh, okay. So did everybody who was on the group holiday know that you guys were dating at that point, or was it a kind of secret squirrel?

Speaker 1

Some did, some didn't, and it kind of evolved as we sort of turned up to the airport together, and everyone was like looking but not saying very much, and then it just kind of was quite chill, and no one really said much. His auntie knew because she'd booked the holiday and was really keen for us to get together, and she'd sorted us to have our own room together, but no one else really knew till we got there. Which of you good job?

Katie South

I take it auntie knew that you were together before she booked your room together. Yeah. She wasn't just like manifesting this would turn into great love. So you guys get together, you get back from the holiday, you decide you're gonna go all in, but you live a couple of hours away, so you started meeting the kids. And how did that introduction go?

Speaker 1

It was very casual, really. I just remember because my partner lived with family at the time, so I'd just arrived there, so I was meeting the family, grandparents, and the two children were there. The two-year-old obviously is not vage, he doesn't got a clue what's going on. Six-year-old was just hiding for a bit. I just chatted to people, he was just organising a bag because he was like, We'll go to the park, kind of thing. And it was all quite quick and hurried, but then I ended up because I was just gonna go for the day, and then there his family were like, Well, you've driven like two hours, why don't you stay? So ended up staying and chatting to them most of the evening. So, yeah, it felt easy, like it didn't feel like, oh my gosh, I've just spent the whole day meeting your family and your children, and there was no pressure. Yeah, and it all just kind of got along, and I thought, Oh, this is quite nice.

Katie South

Little did I know. That sounds ominous. How did things unfold from that first meeting then?

Speaker 1

So it became one weekend he would come to where I was living, and the other weekend I would go there, but obviously the children were always there. Uh, and then we ended up having more and more events there up where he lives, so spend a lot of time up there. At the start, the ex- partner was all in like, oh well, this is great, but like to dictate. And actually, I quickly was like, No, you can't allow her to dictate what you're doing on the weekends. Whereas I think that's what he was used to before. Um so, for example, after the first couple of times of being present when he had the children, I'd be like, How come the six-year-old's still up and it's 9 30 at night? And he he'd look at me and be like, Oh, and I said, She needs to go to bed like at about 7, 7:30. And he was like, Does she? He had no idea. He's like, Oh no, because when she's with her mum, she just sits up till she falls asleep. I said, But you're getting behaviour on a Sunday where she's really not happy. I said, She needs to go to bed. He had no idea, and then it was dictated, no, she doesn't go to bed, she just falls asleep whenever because that's what her mum told him to do. So that's just a really very small example.

Katie South

So it sounds like mum was wanting the same kind of quote unquote rules in dad's house, but actually, everybody has their own rules for their own children. I'm, as people who listen a little know, probably more on the strict side. So I do like bedtime for my children, and actually, I think personally in our family, we all function really well on routine. I think children generally function well on routine. So when your partner said, Well, actually, I'm gonna start putting her to bed a bit earlier, what happened?

Speaker 1

Of course, who's the bad guy? Because I've just arrived and suddenly there's a bedtime, and that's kind of where it's stuck and spiraled from, really, because I said, actually, she's your ex-wife. Would you like it if I had an ex-partner telling me, like, or on the phone constantly to me, saying, You need to do this now, you need to do that now. This is your parenting, you've got to take ownership of this. So it was hard to put in the rules and boundaries. We had another event we went to, it was a family event, and the six-year-old kicked off big time when we were leaving, and it was so shocking to see. When we got back, I sat down with him and I said, If you don't put in rules and boundaries now, you've lost control. Because if she gets to 10 and I said, and she's smashing up our house that we'd like to buy, I said, It's not gonna work, so it took a lot of work because he was just like wanting to be the nice guy, and that's just how she behaved. I said, It isn't how she behaves, like we don't speak to grandparents like that, we're at a party, like yeah, it was bad, and she was six years old. And I said, You know, there needs to be a consequence tomorrow, and I said, The consequence will have to be something very it'll be small to us, but it'll be big to her. And we worked out actually once it took me about maybe two and a half hour conversation with him. It's really late into the night, and I said, What she really loves is sweets, so tomorrow there's no sweets, and that's what we went with. But actually, he did it in the morning. We got round to his mum's house, and the little girl says, Oh, I want this sweet, and they went to give it to her. And I stepped in, I said, No, no, no, remember the consequence. She kicked off again, and I said, And that's the reaction you need because that's the consequence, and from then on, he was like, Ah, I get it. So that was a big moment, and I was still new then, I'd probably been around six weeks, something like that.

Katie South

Yeah, and to your point though, it's like you're you're coming into a situation, and you mentioned that you were thinking about buying a house in the future, and you've kind of got to decide then, well, this is what I'm comfortable with, and this is what I'm not comfortable with. And I think people kind of say, Oh, well, they stepmum's coming and they impose their rules, but I think it's more a case of you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but you thinking, well, this is how I do or don't want to live in the future, and actually I'm gonna share that with my partner, and if he chooses to say, Do you know what? I'm happy with her behaving like this, then you can make your choice and say, Well, I'll walk or I'll stay. But often it takes, as you say, for a second person to come in for the dad to get almost that extra support he needs to instill those boundaries, and it sounds like he was concerned about as so many of them are, it's so predictable being the fun guy, that he didn't want to lay that down. So I'm interested, did you have the support of your partner in laying down those rules?

Speaker 1

In that instance, I think we were so new that he was just accepting of what I was saying. Because I could say, I said to him, Look, this is what will happen, this is the long-term outcome. You can either stick with this behaviour, but I'm not going to stick around, or we work together and we raise children with routine rules and boundaries. So my background is I've always worked with children and families. You may say, Oh, textbook, but actually it they thrive off that. And parenting doesn't come natural to him, and still, I'm not digging him out, but still to this day it doesn't.

Katie South

Yeah, and it's true what you say. My mum, again, I seem to quote her now every single episode. It's getting a little bit old, but you know, she's very wise and she works with children all her career. And she will say to me, you know, not everybody is a good parent naturally, not everybody finds parenting easy, not everybody understands the things that children need naturally. So, on one hand, it's amazing that he had you and all your experience to come in and you know, kudos to you for saying up front early, well, here's what I am prepared to tolerate, and here's what I'm not. How were the rest of his family, like in that moment when granny's trying to give your stepdaughter sweets and you step in and say no? Like, how did they receive that? No, everyone's a little shocked.

Speaker 1

It was a bit like, ah, and actually, I had asked, I'd got the little the girl to draw Nanny a picture and say sorry, and we took it round, which was very well received, and they were like, Oh, like, right. And then when it was like, Oh, I want the sweets, and I said no, it was kind of like ah, I said this is a boundary, but and and that was okay then, but now, four years on, I feel like we're in the worst place we've ever been because it feels like everyone on the outside, his family are judging me because I'm still putting in the boundaries, even on Christmas time. Their behaviour kind of changes when we go to his mum's, and I was pulling them up on it, saying we don't speak like that, we don't say that. Well, come on, you can do that yourself. And but Nan was saying, Well, I only see them every two weeks, so they can do that. I said, No, they're being disrespectful. We raise them to be respectful in our home. They wouldn't speak to me, their dad, anybody. I said, My mum's been with us over Christmas, and she's asking me what's happening today because she can see a completely different children, and that's where they were like thinking they were right, and I was trying to say, actually, and in the end I had to just leave it because I'm being looked upon as well, you're just a stepmum, you can't say nothing.

Katie South

That's so hard, isn't it? So you said back then you're in a worse place now. So, what's gone on?

Speaker 1

We did our long distance for six months, and then my partner decided to move down to where I was, found to a job. We did that for six months because we wanted to save for our own house. A house came up and it all went through, but it did take six months. In that time, he used to do the school run on a Friday, but now living two hours away and working, it was then becoming impossible to keep the peace. I said I would do it, so I was giving up Friday afternoon's work, I run my own business to drive two hours to collect two screaming children to drive back to stay at his mum's. They were really kind and let us stay there for the weekend while we were trying to establish.

Katie South

So he had moved down to you two hours away, but on the weekends when you guys had the children, you would stay at his mum's, which was close to where they were.

Speaker 1

Yeah, got you. And it was it worked really well. It we all everyone just got along. I'd say to them, I know this is chaos. I promise you, we're like six months and we'll be out of your hair kind of thing. And they were they were great, allowing us there for two weekends a month, and it was chaos. And then we got our house, so that would be three years ago, and then it's like the real work started, really, because I guess without really realizing before we had our home, there were so many adults around, there weren't really rules, boundaries, it was all blurred. Bedtimes were sort of there, dinner time, sort of there, but when it's in in our home now, it's very noticeable.

Katie South

I have quite a few stepmums talked to me about this, and they're always worried about sounding materialistic, and I don't think it does at all, but kind of with your stuff, like you know, things that you've worked really hard to buy, nice sofas, nice carpets, and just that sense of there suddenly being loads of kids around, maybe not respecting that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and that is something I personally struggled with massively because it's done a lot of investment for me, and I love my things to be nice and looked after, and basic things like shoes off at the door, that took forever to drum into them. Like shoes off, we don't wear our shoes in the house.

Katie South

I'm laughing because the shoe thing went on for years in our house, absolutely years, because I'm I'm the same, and you know, part of it was that we had babies, but part of it was also like we go and walk in the woods and we get muddy, and I don't really want mud everywhere. But it was massive, and those little things become like these big power plays, don't they?

Speaker 1

Yeah, and luckily I got my partner on board because we had bought a new build, we got brand new everything. I don't want this like wrecked. We can get eye rolls when family members come in. Like, I would say, Oh, could you take your shoes off? They'd be like, Oh, who are you, kind of thing. Like, it's our home. But my partner's now, a few months in, is now on my level with keeping it tidy and respecting it because it's both our money and our investment in things, and we don't want our things trapped, and we've had things, braid can stains here and stains there, and he's like, Oh my gosh, there's a stain on the carpet. So we're very like seen as strict and regimented, but food and drinks consumed in the kitchen because I don't want squash built on the carpet. That kind of me not basically, but to to children can eat in their rooms at their home with their fingers in their bed, spill it on their bed, and that's all okay. Well, that's not okay here.

Katie South

And I do think your point is valid. Children can tell the difference between different rules in different homes, like they are, particularly the ages that yours are now, are old enough to figure that out. I mean, I'm always thrilled or horrified. When my kids go to my parents' house, they literally, and if I take them around, they do this, and I always stand there aware that I am probably the one who has not, you know, been consistent enough in my own home because they'll walk into my mum and dad's house, they'll take their shoes off, they'll pick them up, they'll put them really neatly in the corner, they'll take their coats off, they'll hang them on the peg that my dad's put low down so they can hang their coats up. And I'm always like, whoa, whereas they come into my house, and and I'll still have to say to them, put your shoes away, hang your coat up, and then I may have to say it to them two or three times. But but they do, and for the longest time, I can't really remember a time when they haven't done that because they've always been told to do that. And I I I understand it's hard when children are moving between houses, but if you're consistent enough in your house, they can get it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and they do get it, they do know exactly with very it's been very clear the rules and boundaries. And we've sat down together as a four and we discussed it, and uh you know, in my opinion, they actually quite like it here because it's clean and tidy and everything's got a place, it's not chaotic like their home life.

Katie South

And when they want their crayons, they know where they are, or when they want to play with sticker books, they know where the stickers are. Like it's it's it is nice for children, and and I'm I think it gets mistaken a lot between like people who have the sort of point of view that I think you and I probably share being like, Oh, you fun stoppers, you're boring, and it's like, no, it my kids they they and I see it. If their bedrooms are a mess, they get frustrated, they can't find things once they've sorted out their bedrooms, and I will help them because they're only seven and nine, but they'll know they'll be like, Oh, right, like my older one likes to listen to music, so he's got his headphones and he's like, Right, I know where everything is, now I'm charging them now, and it's just helpful, isn't it?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean, I'm like you say, I'm always accused of oh, you're span sponge or why is there so many rules? Why can't they do this? Like, they can, but I just don't want the house trash. They absolutely can get all that stuff out, but they're gonna put it away or at least take it up to their room. My partner will always say, Oh, you all they ever hear is no from you. I'm like, I don't think that's true, but okay, maybe you step in then. If it's always a no from me, you step in.

Katie South

And it's hard when you're the parent who has to be the one who's always saying no, because the other parents are always saying yes.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

Katie South

And once you were settled in your house, and you said there was a bit of a change when they started coming there every other weekend.

Speaker 1

Yeah, because me and my partner were then got them, and we're now laying our rules and boundaries, and that's how it's going to be. They were really excited at first until it became normal that this is what's happening now. Bedtimes are like you say, bedtimes are important, they're very important to me because I say to my partner, because he'll say, like, why are you getting so hung up on it? I said, Because they've bled me dry all day. They haven't bled you dry, they're bleeding me dry because they want to craft and do things, and you won't do that. I'm doing that and trying to do the dinner and trying to, you know, balance all the plates, and you're you're just sat on your phone on the sofa. Like, I said, I want bedtime. Yes, I do. So that's something, yeah. If so, for instance, like if he's watching football and it doesn't finish till till past the youngest one's bedtime, he's like, Oh, you can just stay up. And I'm like, and I'll say to him, Well, no, because they're they're they're with me. Like, I need an evening, I want to do stuff for myself. If they're staying up, go and sit down with them then. And he'll you're just causing a scene. I'm like, No, I'm not actually put them to bed on time, be consistent.

Katie South

And what you've described just then is such a common pattern that I see with stepmums all the time, and it's that over functioning of you know, I'll do the craft, I'll do this, I'll do what they want to do. My husband's kids, they would get up at like 6 30. I'd be doing fucking marble painting with them because that's what they wanted to do. Like now, with my own kids, if they say, Can we do marble painting? I'm like, this afternoon, not right now, but it's ridiculous because you want to do the right thing for them because you care about them and you want them to be happy in your home. So you're doing all of this. But if your partner is having a lovely, relaxing Saturday watching the football, and then slams you with the oh no, we'll just let them stay up. It's so unfair on you because, like you say, you are done. You've had enough. I find even if a child is just sitting there and they're not really doing anything, maybe they're watching the football as well. Mentally, you still know, right, I've got to take them upstairs, I've got to go through the teeth brushing, I've got to go through the pajamas, I've got to go through the, you know, good night, maybe a bedtime story. Like you, you're still like on, I find anyway, until my child is in bed. I'm still on, even if I'm not kind of actively doing anything. And I think what is something that I do observe a lot with dads is they'll talk about how they love their kids so much and they want to do the best for their kids, but often it's like, but not if it puts me out. Yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 1

That is fair. Yeah, I think that's how I feel, and that is kind of what happens in our house, and I'm raising it and raising it more, but I'm the bad guy. They'll say, But I don't want to sit and do craft, and like, but but you chose to have children, so so what do you expect? Like, you got to find a common ground with them or something because you sit and watching football on your phone and shouting from the sofa is not productive.

Katie South

It sounds like back then, like you were giving an awful amount. You said it was three years since you've moved in together. So, how have the last three years developed in your home?

Speaker 1

They're up and down, actually. We we have good weekends, we have horrendous weekends. My partner will say, I guess me and him obviously get I don't know, 13 days of it together, have the greatest time, very good relationship, and then there's an atmosphere brewing in the lead up to handover on that Friday, so it might even start the Thursday, and we can both feel an atmosphere between us because I think we're both getting anxious because what's the handover going to be like? Because what are they told? Sometimes they're screaming being forced into his van, other times they run. He's just like, What? Sometimes they ignore him on the way home, sometimes they don't. So it's kind of like, what are we gonna get? We never know what we're gonna get, it's very different. And he'll say that's because of what's being fed to them. Home, that kind of stuff. You're missing out on this this weekend, and you're missing out on that. Who knows what's said? We don't know. I've worked very hard to not be so hung up on what the ex is saying, every message, every call. Now we've got to a point where I don't even ask, I don't ask a single question. And that took me a lot of work because we got into this routine of he'd get in from work, we'd have dinner, and I'd be like, What's the lowdown? Because he would have had a stream of messages, abusive messages, constantly, day in, day out, for years and years. And sometimes he would engage with it, and other times he wouldn't. So he would blur the boundary too, and he'd spend a whole day out. And we're like, Why are you arguing with her? And then we're over-analysing every little thing that's said. And one day I'd have said, This needs to stop. We're giving her this airtime. She don't need our airtime, she's getting exactly what she wants. She called mediation a year ago in February, and that for us has been a game changer. Absolute game changer. It was probably the most stressful thing coming up to it, but what we got out of that was life-changing for us. So the mediation was always thrown about as a threat in all these horrendous messages. He would have stream and streams, but nonsense messages. Um, because the meeting place for drop-off was exactly in the middle of where both of them lived. And that had worked well for over a year, and suddenly she thought, I'm not gonna do that anymore. It's working too well, I'm gonna cause a scene. So he just kept pushing, pushing, pushing. No, I'm meeting at the middle. If you're not there, I just won't have them. Obviously, he wanted to have them and he was panicking that she wouldn't arrive. She arrived every time, like I said to him, call her bluff, she will be there. She doesn't want them, she's moved on, she's got two more children and married, you know, like she needs a break. Fair enough. Anyway, ended up in the January said I I've filed or whatever it is for mediation. So he was instantly terrified. And I was like, it's nothing to be terrified about. This is our time to get our point across. So we worked really hard and putting everything on a bit of paper and summarising what we wanted out of it. And what was that? So she wanted him to do all the driving for the drop-off and pickups, which he was a bit like it's really unreasonable, but if I have to concede to that, I will basically. And was her logic that he had chosen to move away? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We were punished, probably because they were happy in our home. We would also be bombarded all the weekend from seven in the morning until the Sunday with FaceTime calls from her. So that was on the list boundary. They were crying all the time. She was showing them, Look what you're missing out on we're with the family, you're not at all, what have you done today? And one time we'd we'd been out with my family, my cousins, they've got children, everyone had a lovely day. So they're like, Oh, we met Jane's cousins. Well, you're not to do that ever. They're not your family, they should be doing that when you're not around. So then they were just like, Oh, like, we were not meant to have had a nice time, and then they're crying, they won't tell us why they're crying.

Katie South

That's so cruel. And I just I don't get it. Like, I understand missing your kids when they're not with you, but you've got to let them be happy somewhere else. Also, why wouldn't you want that? Like, why wouldn't you want them to be happy? That's lovely that they've got that experience. What was your ask on the FaceTime? Because this is one that I hear a lot, I've experienced a lot.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so we felt that actually they're here for 48 hours. There probably isn't a need for a FaceTime. If there was anything wrong, my partner would contact. However, he said to me, because of how she works, we're gonna have to put something in. So he said, six o'clock on a Saturday, six in the evening, one phone call. If you call any other time, I won't be answering. That was all agreed at mediation. And I was thinking, wow, that went through quite easy. They also agreed to talk on a parenting app because the c the abuse was constant and it needed to be recorded. However, she refused to do that as soon as the mediation call ended. But when you talk about the abuse she used to send, like what sort of things would she say? Oh gosh, there's I've got reams and reams of it. You're a shit dad, you don't do nothing for these kids, you don't even pay for them, they'd be better off if you and Jane were dead, all things like that. He pays every single month, he's never missed a payment. We have the whole separate wardrobe here of clothes, shoes, coats, everything you could think of. But they would then come and the little one would be playing dollies when she was a bit younger. She'd be like, Daddy doesn't pay for us. Oh my god. He does pay for you, sweetheart, and then we'd move on. They know the ins and outs of everything because she tells them. So we remain silent and just be like, okay. FaceTime used to be, oh, you can answer, can you? Because Jane's not around. And I'd be sat there, and they're sat there mortified because they can see that I'm sat there. Um I just leave the in the end. I said to my partner, if they have a call, they go in their bedroom and they shut their door. Um, did it get to you? Yeah, because I'm always the bad guy. Like, yeah, I'm doing my best. I'm clothing the children, I'm planning events, I'm making sure we do all these lovely things, but still be the bad guy. Like, you're evil, you're an evil stepmum. You make them go to bed. I don't know, it's just a bedtime, actually. Oh, you know, we sit at the table, we eat together. That's evil because they should be on their screens eating with their fingers in their room. Well, not here. I've had all sorts of allegations made. Um, we have cameras in the house now, just to keep me safe. What happened in order to make you need cameras? So we had a difficult weekend a while back. I personally think the trigger in change of behaviour was that their mum got married to their stepdad, and the eldest one is still to this day, Adam, and she wants her mum and dad together. So I think that big gesture has really knocked the behaviour. Like she's thinking, oh great, mum and dad can't get back together. My partner tells it all the time, we will never be back together. I'm sorry about that, but we never will be. So then we had a few weekends of awful, and I say awful behaviour, ignoring me for that the entire weekend. I would say, What do you like in your sandwich? I'd get met with either bursting into tears or just being ignored. And like that stressful. And my partner's stress, and I'm stressed, and we're like, what on earth is going on? I haven't done anything wrong, you've just come here. What's going on? Won't come anywhere near me, won't come in the same room as me. And it's been awful. This is since the summer, and it's been on and off since we tried every strategy possible. Let's ignore it, let's carry on doing what we were gonna do. Yeah, it's just been awful. So the cameras, so one day, I can't think what happened, but me and my partner ended up having a massive argument, and I was just like, Oh, it's always on the weekends, they're here. Why is it like this? I left the house because I was like, I'm not having another weekend like this. I went out for the day, came back, and the eldest one said to me, who never really says anything. She came up to me and said, I've been scared today. And I said, Oh, why are you scared? She said, Because you weren't here and dad shouted all day and been really moony. And I was like, Okay, I'm sorry about that. I said, I couldn't take you with me because you're not my children. I can't be here when it's like that. And she said, I just don't want to come anymore. And I was like, Okay, well, what do you think we should do about that? She was like, I'm too scared to say it to dad. And I said, Oh, do you want me to be your voice? And she was like, Yeah. I said, Well, what is it you want to happen? So I thought we were having this really open, adult-ish conversation together, thinking, Oh my gosh, she's never said anything like this. Anyway, she said, I just want to come for one night. I was like, Okay, I will talk to Dad when you've gone. Can't promise you anything, but I'm gonna do my best. If you're unhappy and he's unhappy, it's making me unhappy, this isn't working. Anyway, they go home and he calls me when he's dropped them off and he's like, Oh, it's so nice, I'll drop them off. My daughter said, Can't wait to come next time for two nights. And I said, Ah, I said, She's asked me to have a conversation with you about coming for one night. She's too scared to say it to you to hurt your feelings, but she only wants to come for one night. And he looks at me like she's just told me that in the van. I was like, Well, okay. Followed up by, I have we always joke, like, what's your feedback on Sunday after you've dropped them out? Got your message yet? Followed up by the message that said they don't want to come if Jane's in the house because she makes them uncomfortable. And I said, Right, let's piece this triangle together of what she has gone and done. This is dangerous. So, yeah, that is why we've got cameras because I need to keep myself safe, basically, about things that are said, lies, anything like that. That to me is quite a big accusation. If you're gonna say I'm uncomfortable in the house, or and I said, Okay, this is where I live, so have them somewhere else. Let it backfire. Like, I'll call your blah. And when we called her out on it, like we had a family meeting on the four of us, she started sat there laughing in between crying. I said, We've caught you out manipulating adults. So you and your partner and the two kids had a family meeting. Yeah, because he was like, This this ignoring cannot continue what's going on. They don't offer anything up, they won't speak. We speak and we're car, and we say, you know, it's really unfair. You come here to have a nice time, be with your dad and Jane and do nice things, but why are you mistreating Jane? What's she done? They won't comment. And then I spoke about to the big one, who I sat and listened to you, and I was your voice, and actually, what's unfolded is what you said to dad and what you've said to your mum. So, what is it? And she's smirking as if to say, I know what I'm doing, basically.

Katie South

And what does the child expert part of you, aside from the stepmum side of you, see is happening?

Speaker 1

I think she's got a lot of deep-rooted trauma. Uh I think she needs a lot of help. She does have anxiety, facial ticks. Nobody will listen to me. Uh, they can see it, but everyone's like, oh, she's just a kid. I'm like, in a couple of years' time, she may be self-harming, she may have an eating disorder, she may be running away from home. Can we sort this? I can't, because it's not my role. I've been told it's not my role. That's down to mum and dad. Okay. It's been a year, they won't start anything.

Katie South

It's so painful, isn't it, when you can see it unfolding. I hear so many times where step mums will be saying this child needs counselling, let's get them support, let's get them somebody to talk to who's outside of the family, and the mother. Sometimes the father, but often the mother. Nope, nothing wrong with my child, they don't need that. Like, really, even if you think there's nothing wrong with your child, why would you be so against it?

Speaker 1

Anything can help. I think she's seen a lot, she hears a lot. She's had access to a mobile phone since she was six, and then it got broken, and then she brought one to her house. I think she was nine. That's another boundary. It's not used in our home, switched off in the cupboard. She's just not online savvy. She will write horrible things to friends, she yeah, and this all erupts at home. And I said to my partner the first weekend she had it here, it was a disaster. And I said, I think the phone needs to go. That took a lot of work. We were the worst people ever. She's not gonna come to our house then. She's been amazing at putting that boundary in and keeping to it, and now it's just normal, she just doesn't have it here. And it's possibly a relief for her. This is what I say. She'll never admit it. I think it gives her freedom to be a child. She plays, she engages, she's yeah, off screens. We don't have anything, we don't actually own an iPad or anything, so we don't have anything to offer up. Telly is it really?

Katie South

They've never been on our phones, so and maybe it gives her a little bit of space from her mum if her mum's kind of always on at her. Yeah, and we found that she'd message and be like, Jane said this to me today. It's that thing that bless her, and I know it's really hard when you're in it, so I I understand how hard it is, but you can see it's someone just trying to get approval for their mum. Yeah, yeah. It's horrible, horrible for you. So, where are you now with everything?

Speaker 1

Well, it's a little bit of a disaster currently. If I dare to give an instruction, when I say an instruction, something so menial, like, have you changed your knickers today? Those kind of things. I then get ignored. Or we have a tantrum because I said something. So I said, Please don't stamp down the backs of those new trainers. Undo the laces and put your feet in them. Oh, wow, all hell break loose. Oh, tantrum, crying, hood up on the coat. They're 11 and 6 now. So yeah, six-year-old and they ha are like little besties. She's warm, loving, kind, absolutely loves your attention. She'll bleed you dry. Like she'll ask you 400 questions in the space of a minute, but she's lovely with it. And actually, when you watch her out and about, everyone's the same with her. So it's hard when there's two and they're so different. The other one's gonna be cold, reserved. My partner likes like them to be loving, whereas the younger one gives fills his cut because she's cuddly and she's like, Daddy, I love you. Like, whereas the elder one, whoa, no way, like no. And has she always been like that prior to 11? Yeah, not really that warm. He gets the odd occasion, he's just like laps it up, like, oh my gosh. So, yeah, we had this tantrum about the sh the shoes anyway. He was taking them out because I wasn't very well. Um, gave me a little bit to have a little nap and stuff. Normally I'd be made to feel so guilty because I'm not involved, you're not doing it all. And this one time I thought, oh my gosh, you haven't made me feel guilty. And he backed me in the whole instruction about the trainers. And when he'd left, I messed up like, Thank you so much for not making me feel guilty for feeling poorly, and secondly, for backing me up, like that's huge for us. Anyway, I forgot about the whole thing. They were out about four hours, came back, but she clearly hadn't let it go because she came in and ignored me, and I was a bit like this is weird, so I let it go for a bit. Anyway, went on and on and on. And I said to my partner, will you address that, please? She's ignoring me. He says, No. Uh, and I said, Then I'm gonna address it. No, you're not. I said, I am because there's an atmosphere in our house. So I go in and I've got a bit of a tone by this point because I'm really like, I've had enough, really. What have I done? I've literally asked you not to ruin your trainers. Anyway, I said, Why are you ignoring me in my own home? She smirked and looked away. Dad comes in, like, I told you to leave it, and then she turns on the tears. Ah, trump card, in my opinion. We escalate, escalate, escalate, have a massive row um on the Sunday. I'm like, I think you lot need to go. I've spent long enough being alienated in my house. So, from that, me and my partner cannot agree on what went on at all. He thinks he was right not to address it, I think he was wrong not to address it. We can't come to an agreement. This was two weeks ago, so it's quite fresh. We sort of left it unsaid and said, Okay, fine. And I said, then you're gonna have to have them somewhere else until they can learn about respect and you can back me and we can be on the same page. I'm not having my weekends where I'm alienated, sat in my bedroom on my own. I'm just not doing it. So that's where we're at. So the weekend just gone, actually. He had them at his mum's. He said it was a nightmare. Rules and boundaries are blurred because nanny's given what they want. He's then saying no. Said, not sure where it leaves us, but I think he said that they can't really go there every other weekend. So in two weeks' time, I guess they'll be here and I'll have to go away for the weekend. I feel like I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. I've had lots of input from people that made me just go a bit like, I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do. And so I stepped back from all of it and thought I have to look after myself here, and maybe he'll accuse me of disengaging and you don't want to be part of a blended family, and you're not going about it the right way. Whereas I'm like, I need to support my own mental health because I'm spiralling otherwise, and I've been doing this for so long, and nothing's changing, so there needs to be an impact, and I need him to be the lead parent, so yeah, that's where we're at at the moment.

Katie South

It is a mess. It's such a point to get to where you said to him, You're gonna have to have them somewhere else for your sake because you deserve to feel emotionally safe in your home, as does anybody. What is his response to that?

Speaker 1

It's met with negativity all the time. How I came into this role, I knew he had children, uh, I need to just basically get on with it. Um, yeah, I do back you. You do, but not when I needed it the most. You do sit on the sofa, I'm the lead parent, it's not my role. Instead of it being met with this is a mess, how can I help? What can we do to make this better? He goes to worst case scenario every time. You're leaving me, you don't want to be around us, how are we gonna move forward from this? What do I tell them? Tell them, tell them the truth.

Katie South

Also, it might be very lovely for him because every other weekend he gets to see his children. He also doesn't have to give up the football or anything he likes, he doesn't, by the sounds of it, have to cook all their meals and a lot of the boring shit that does come when you have kids, he's got someone to split it with. So for him, you are a massive, massive gain, and anything that you step back from means he has to pick it up.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. So you're right. I do all the cooking because I like cooking and they love my food, and I know that's a time to get really good food into them. They spend a lot of their time having takeaways and beige food at home. They'll come and be like, Oh, can we have a pasta bake? And I just ram it full of veg that they've got no idea about. And I'm like, Oh, that's a win for me. Like, I know they've eaten some really good food. I and I think because I jumped in so early, I jumped in and wanted to make it all just amazing, and this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna give it my all. I'm gonna make sure you've got all these amazing presents for Christmas, and we can do all these great events. And now my cup's empty, and everyone else is judging me because I'm like, I can't sustain this. Yeah, it's a lot, yeah. So I do need him, and I have asked him, you need to step up and be the lead parent. I need to just support, especially if I can't give him simple instruction.

Katie South

In this situation now, what's your goal? Where do you want to get to?

Speaker 1

That we are all back together, that everybody respects everybody. They can take a little instruction, like hang up your wet towel. My partner's in the lead, and he's like, right, today we're gonna do this, or uh please don't speak to Jane like that, or you know, those kind of things without the ignoring, without the tension, the anxiety, and the lead up to them coming. Just want it to be like normal, I guess. Like, I don't know what normal is, to be honest, but when I speak to friends, they're like, gosh, no, we would never have ignoring behaviour. Like, oh no, and another thing, I don't look after them on my own. That's a barrier because of safety, because there's a lot of lies from the older one. I haven't been able to look after them. I did at the very beginning, I had to stop just again to keep myself safe. So that's a barrier. If we need bread or milk in the morning, my partner can't go, I have to go. You have to take them with you. And he's like, This is ridiculous. I'm like, I know.

Katie South

You mentioned that your partner would say, Oh, you're disengaging. At some point, I wonder, is there a healthy level of disengaging that you choose to do? Because as you say, like your cup is drained.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and sometimes I happen like dead to go out, should we say, and I'll say to him, I'm gonna be out on a Saturday for a bit, coffee with a friend, and he'll be like, Yeah, great, great. But when it comes to it, without him saying anything, I know I'm made to feel guilty for doing so. Or if I make up at home and put someone on the TV, why are you disengaging? I'm like, I'm not, I'm just having a cup of tea like I normally would. But it's okay for you to sit on the toilet for half an hour on your phone or to sit watching football. Are you disengaging? No, because I'm their dad. Oh, okay. There's these things that I'm like, you're creating the stigma half the time. Like, I am allowed to go and have a shower on my own, you know. I am allowed to sit in my room for an hour on my own and read my book.

Katie South

Like absolutely. A lot of the time, the mental health of a stepmum ends up on the floor because she's soothing the tension, she's managing the meal plan, she's thinking about giving them healthy food, she's arranging what they're gonna do for the weekend. She's thinking, oh, have they grown out of those shoes? Do I need to get them some more? And it's so much, and we do it because we care, because we want to be a good stepmum, probably deep down because we're pushing up against the narrative of the evil stepmum. But then you end up in a situation where you're giving, giving, giving, and who's giving back to you? And you don't do it because you want someone to give back to you. You just don't want to be ignored and treated like shit in your own home.

Speaker 1

100%. And that you've summed it up because that is exactly that is me. I'm a giving nature. I just am. I'm just always willing to give everyone before myself. But then I say, who's looking after me? I'm just the bad guy and the verbal punch bag. And why me? I haven't done anything wrong. I provided you this lovely home and all the things you've got. And yeah. That's crazy. It is like when people say you knew what you were getting into. No, no, no. Yeah. I'm not sure I'd ever. Not that I even want to leave my partner, but not sure I'd ever do it again. And that makes me sad because I think it should should it be this bad?

Katie South

It's such a small sphere of influence you can have in that every other weekend setup. And it's so difficult when your values, by the sounds of it, are so different to mum's. Oh, massively.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And a friend said to me only last week, actually, she said, You're fighting a battle, you're never gonna win. She said, All days a month, you're never gonna undo it. She said, Stop. You're draining your cup, you're exhausting yourself. Don't worry. If they want to let them do that, let them. And you know, to me, that's been liberating because I listened and I thought, you're right. If you don't want them to brush their teeth before you go out, okay. I'm not gonna fight the battle. If you want them to be rude to your family, okay, as long as they're not rude to me, that might be the best approach for me.

Katie South

Sometimes what I've done with clients of mine, it might be helpful for anybody listening. Note down the things that aren't aligned with your values that you do struggle with, and then almost go down, okay, which ones am I prepared to let go? So food is always a massive one. There's a lot of women who really value healthy eating, and actually that's a battle. Does it really matter? Yes, it's not what you would do if they were your children, but are you prepared to really pull on your own mental health to force meals? Or do you say, right to your partner, you're doing all the meals? You might go through the list and you might say, actually, the way they talk to me is not something I'm prepared to let go of. So have a conversation with your partner about what that might be. And then you might find actually all these things that I do care about how often they shower, like you say, how often they brush their teeth, but all it's doing is taking from you. And no one's gonna turn around and say, Oh, thank you so much for making sure that my kids ate their five portions of fruit and veg a day. You're just gonna get hard time for doing it. So I wonder whether working out what you are prepared to let go might be a really, really, really helpful exercise for you.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I think that's really good advice because I think I do get so hung up on the little things, and I think actually I can't I'm exhausting myself, like you're saying, and no one cares, really, apart from me. Okay, if you don't want to wear clean clothes. So another thing was clothing. We go out or just really want them to look nice, they've got beautiful clothes. The eldest one will deliberately find something that's either too small or dirty or anything to get a reaction from me. Used to work, and now I just say, Today the weather is really wet and really cold. We're gonna be outside. You choose your outfit. She will 100% come in, shorts and a t-shirt. I'll be like, Cool, you're gonna be warm. She's like, Yeah. I was like, Okay, great. I'm gonna be warm because I'm in like a jumper, long sleep top, da da da. I'm okay because I'm gonna be warm. Don't want to hear from you that you're cold. This is your opportunity. That seems to work, yeah.

Katie South

And I think that's a really good thing. I've done that with my own biological child. He'll be like, I don't need a coat, I don't need gloves, I don't need a hat. And I'm like, Well, look outside, look at me and dad. This is what we're going out with. Your gloves and your scarf and your hat or whatever are in the drawer. You choose, but we're staying out for this walk, and if you're cold, I don't want to hear it, you'll be cold. Now it's so weird because I feel so comfortable saying that to my child. But if I'd have said that to my stepchild, you know, there would have undoubtedly been, you're so mean, you let her freeze, she was so cold. But I think you are right in that you say there are some things that you're just not gonna do anymore, and almost have the conversation in in the way with your partner that it's a productive conversation and it's not, oh, I'm disengaging, it's here are the things that are really costing my mental energy a lot and my emotional safety, and here is what I'm going to do now. And if that means I'm not thinking about what food they need for the weekend anymore, you're gonna do that. I'm not thinking about who's got a party and whether they need a gift for the party, you're gonna do that. What I am gonna think about is you know, whatever you feel happy taking on, and just to get on the same page as that, really for the women listening, don't be afraid to lead on that and to say, here's what I'm willing to do, here's what I'm not. Because it will the role will bleed you dry if you let it, particularly in a situation like yours.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and it currently is, so that's why I've thought for the time being, I need to step out for a bit, look after myself. And I've had so many people like you're doing the role thing, and I was just feeling so overwhelmed. You don't know what it's like for me in a situation. I have to step out because we can't have toxic arguing every time they're here.

Katie South

And you'll burn out, you will, you'll burn out, and that's when you start to become unwell, and the effect on yourself is so big. I think what people don't understand about disengaging or taking a step back is it doesn't mean you ignore your stepkids when they come around. You're still hi, how are you? You're still warm, you're still friendly, you're kind. It just means you don't take all the physical and emotional labour that's required to look after a child. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I want to be the one in the background that can enjoy them and can do the nice things. I've got so much resentment because I'm so expected to do absolutely everything as a mum, but not allowed to say mum or stepmum or anything like that, because I'm a nobody. Like you sit in your box and be quiet, but you do everything.

Katie South

And that's where the resentment breeds when you're expected to give, give, give, give, give, but you get nothing back.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's tough. Also, say to my partner, it'd be great if you could join some kind of group that's dads with stepmums, but you can't find anything really.

Katie South

Well, I work with dads, and I've got a section on the website dedicated to dads, and there's specific programs that I'm running for dads because it's the same thing you see time and time again: the guilt parenting, the overcompensating, the not being willing to put in the boundaries, all of that. And it doesn't come from a bad place, it's fear-based parenting, it's guilt-based parenting, it's not strong leadership parenting.

Speaker 1

And children need that. Yeah, I think he worries what will be said when they go home and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if we've had the world's best time. We went to Hamley's in London at Christmas, amazing day. They probably went home and said they had a rubbish weekend because they wouldn't dare say they had a good time, but they're fear that their mum would be like, Oh, you're not allowed to do that.

Katie South

Yeah, all he needs to worry about is has he showed up as the dad that he wants to be and the partner that he wants to be? If so, great. So sometimes maybe I can lay into the dads a bit, but it is really, really, really hard for them. And sometimes there's a lot of pain and grief for dads around not getting to be the dad they want to be, either because they don't see their children enough to be able to raise them with the values that they have and they think are important, or because they look back and maybe can see I had a child with somebody that if I had my time again, I wouldn't have a child with, and there is a lot of grief around that, and sometimes it's easier for a dad to go into hyper-defensive mode rather than to actually acknowledge that sadness.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and he does say that he's like I would never change for the world, but I don't know why I had children with that lady. Also, they're still what an hour and a bit apart, it is only every other weekend. I don't know, is it like the bond or the closeness is the gap might be getting a little bit bigger? They're not boys, so they're not into the football, they need they'd have a common ground. He said, I don't want to sit in craft and colour, so I don't really have to have common ground then.

Katie South

Like tough shit. I've got two sons, and I didn't think I wanted to spend my weekends on a sports pitch, but I do it, I actually really like it now. But you know, 25-year-old me would not have thought that 45-year-old me would be doing what I'm doing now on my weekends, but it's what you do, isn't it?

Speaker 1

Yeah, so I say to him, like, well, that's what you do, like you chose to have children, so you have to find some common ground rather than just completely not do anything or get stressed over an activity you don't really want to do. Yeah, so what happens from here for you? I don't really know. I'm hoping, well, no, we will. We'll come back together, we will, because I just want him to step up and be the lead parent. So for a couple of weekends, he's gonna have to do it on his own here, and I think that would be an eye-opener for him. And then we can have the chat of you're the lead, I'm in the background. I need it to look more like this than me doing everything. And I guess it's for him to have the conversation I feel about how the children speak to me. And then I guess we have a family meeting or chat around the table when the day I come back in. I want to do it gradually. I don't just want to be rot here on a Friday and have to just dive full in. I might come back Sunday morning and then come back oh the next time Saturday, like you know, and gradually I'm not just gonna be gone and then here full time. I think it needs to be a gradual process for me and for them, because actually he has said to them, you're not gonna see Jane for a little while. And he did say they're upset by that. And I said, Well, yeah, because I do everything. They need to see you doing everything.

Katie South

And they also, no matter how hard it is for you to feel that there's probably, particularly with the oldest from what you said, massive loyalty bind with her mum. So it's gonna be so hard, even as badly as she treats you. It doesn't surprise me to hear that she's sad you're not gonna be there. But again, that's not for you to take and to fix and to sort, that's for her dad. So I'm really pleased that you're prioritizing yourself. Can you come back and talk to me again in a couple of months and let me know how you've got on?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I would love to. I feel like it's been a really negative story, but I have to say, we have some amazing times together as well. Christmas Eagles Day was magical, and yeah, me and the little one definitely have a closer bond. Definitely, it's always been that way though, because I don't think the elder one wants to let anybody in for fear that you know, sometimes she might come and say, Will you do my hair? And I think for me, oh my gosh, that's a game changer. I'm like, Yeah, come on then, and then we'll do it. And then two minutes later she pulls it out, and I think, Oh, it's because she didn't want to go home with it like that, because she will say Jane did it. Things like that. You start to get somewhere, and then you're like, Oh, ten steps back. But I was surprised actually that he said she cried when she wouldn't see me. Because in my head, I'm like, she hates me. No, maybe she doesn't, I don't know. She just does everything in her power to make my life difficult. And that for me then says, but then you really just you you hate you being around. I said to him, if you hug or kiss me and she's around, her behaviour changes. She can't deal with that.

Katie South

I guess it's that it's that other it's that other reminder of mum and dad not being together or that fear of you becoming more important than she is. Yeah, and that's never the case. No, but you should be able to hug and kiss your partner. It it's not like you've been together half an hour at this point, so it's that, and then that puts you into hyper-vigilant treading on eggshells moment. Oh, can I like stroke him on the back while I'm cooking dinner, or is everything gonna kick off?

Speaker 1

Yeah, he'll say family cuddle, little one rounds in, she'll sit on the outside every time. Yeah, so I think I would absolutely love for her to have counselling or some kind of therapy. When she finds it, I feel like they're missing the boat a little bit. I worry. Do you know what? I spend more time, although we're not like really close. I spend more time worrying, worried sick about her than anybody even knows about because I'm like so worried for her future.

Katie South

Yeah, I see that, and I can I bet you're there googling a lot of the time and trying to find resources and trying to find I see it's I see it a lot. That it's that deep care for a child that ultimately is just a little bit too far out of reach, and it's so hard.

Speaker 1

I've spent time googling, researching the tics, what I can do to help her, what therapy. I've looked around locally, it's very difficult every other weekend on a Saturday, not many then. Yeah, we're out of luck here again. Like I looked at alternative therapy, like reflexology, things like that.

Katie South

And that's where maybe you have to get to the point where you can, in your little list, you can say that's something else that you're concerned about is her longer-term mental health, and you're worried about it, and you spend time thinking about it, but you're gonna make the choice not because you don't care, but because you need to protect yourself, so that's something else for him to carry. It's been really good to talk to you, and I don't want you to feel like everything's been negative because it hasn't, but what I think's really important is that your bravery and sharing how you feel will help a lot of other women feel very seen and very validated and a lot less alone. And I can tell you from the women that I've spoken to, you are not alone at all. So remember to prioritize yourself. Nobody else will if you don't in this situation, and please do get back in touch.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'd love to come back on with our follow up story when it's a bit more positive. Hopefully, it will be. I think I dived in way too soon, trying to fix everything, and now I'm yeah, my cup's empty. So, yes, a lot of self care for me and a bit of a switch up, I think, at home with me not being the lead and being the bad guy. That's what I'd like.

Head Shot

Katie South

Host