The Grief Nobody Talks About in Stepfamily Life

When your partner’s children live hours away, stepfamily life can start to feel like constant emotional whiplash.
 This episode is for the stepmum trying to hold love, anxiety, resentment and hope all at the same time.

 When Grace met her now husband, one of the things she loved most was the way he spoke about his ex-wife. Respectfully. Calmly. Like two people who had simply grown apart but still cared deeply about co-parenting their children well.

But once the relationship became serious, everything changed.

In this conversation, Grace shares what it has really been like navigating stepfamily life after her husband’s children were moved three hours away. She talks honestly about the grief of watching children grow up through motorway services and FaceTimes, the emotional toll of hostile co-parenting dynamics, and the anxiety that can quietly build around every pickup, drop-off and handover.

We also talk about something many stepmums feel but rarely say out loud: loving your stepchildren while also carrying tension, vigilance and emotional exhaustion alongside that love. Grace speaks candidly about the pressure to get everything right, the overthinking before the children arrive, the emotional “crash” when they leave, and the guilt that can come with difficult feelings in blended family life.

There’s also an important conversation here about loyalty binds, nervous system responses, and the reality that even in healthy relationships, stepfamily dynamics can leave women feeling emotionally on edge for years.

If you’ve ever found yourself trying harder and harder to make stepfamily life work while quietly losing parts of yourself in the process, this episode will probably feel very familiar.

WHAT YOU’LL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE:
 • Why “healthy co-parenting” can change dramatically once a new partner enters the picture
 • The emotional reality of long-distance parenting and stepfamily life across two homes
 • How chronic tension and hostile communication can keep a stepmum’s nervous system permanently on alert
 • Why many stepmums feel pressure to create the “perfect” environment every visit
 • The hidden grief of loving stepchildren you only see intermittently
 • How resentment, anxiety and love can all coexist at the same time in the stepmother role
 • The difference between genuinely difficult children and a nervous system that has learned to brace itself

THIS EPISODE IS FOR YOU
 • If you’re a stepmum who feels anxious before pickups, drop-offs or changeovers
 • If you’re struggling with feeling emotionally consumed by co-parenting conflict that isn’t directly yours
 • If you’re a stepmum trying to love children while also carrying resentment, exhaustion or hypervigilance
 • If you feel like your relationship changes when your partner’s children are around
 • If you’re navigating blended family challenges where distance, court orders or conflict shape everyday life
 • If you’re exhausted from overthinking every interaction and trying to keep the peace

 If this episode felt painfully familiar, you’re not the only one. Please follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future conversations, and feel free to share this episode with another stepmum who might feel seen by it.

If you’re looking for more structured support, The Stepmum Reset is a small-group workshop designed to help stepmums feel calmer, clearer and more like themselves again inside stepfamily life. You can find more support at Stepmum Space.

Head to stepmumspace.com to book your free clarity call

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

When you meet someone with children and they say their co-parenting relationships healthy, your nervous system breathes a sigh of relief. Maybe it won't be that hard after all. Hello, I'm Katie and this is Stepmum Space, the judgment free zone where we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of stepmum life. So whether you've been a stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the stepmum in your life a bit better, this is the place for you. My guest today is Grace. She's a stepmum to two, a biological mum to one, and a thoroughly lovely woman. I know you're gonna love this chat, so let's get into it. I'm so happy to be joined by you today, Grace. We've been trying to set this up for a little while, so welcome to Stepmum Space. Thank you. Yes, so lovely to be on here. Yeah, it's been almost a big event because I've used the podcast as almost my crutch, but then actually coming to the point where you talk yourself is a bit of a it's so strange. You want to, but you think, oh, it's so intimate almost. You think, can I do it? But I've already now, so yeah, I'm glad. And I'm really grateful to you for saying that because it is a lot for somebody to come on and talk about their story and share all of that. And like you say, it is really intimate. So I always say to people, like with me and you, it's just like a chat down the pub. But obviously, thousands of people are listening to it. Yeah, no, but it's so important because, like I said, I think without the podcast, I would have really, really struggled mentally, and knowing there's other women that have felt like that or have approached things in this way and that way, it's just been yeah, amazing. So I thought if I can help just even one my stepmum that's felt like I felt, then that's brilliant. And I know that you will, I really know that you will. So, do you want to share a little bit, Grace, about your family? Yeah, so I met my now husband five years ago. We met on Bumble, which was brilliant. When I put a two-mile radius because I couldn't be bothered to go travel any further than that. You must live somewhere with a really good standard of men because so many of my single friends have been like, I keep having to widen the radius, I keep having to widen the radius and you know meet someone hundreds of miles away. So good for you. Yeah, I think it was a fluke and faint, and I don't really believe in fate, but he was definitely meant to be, so we were very lucky. So we met, got on really well. I have my own biological son, and he has two children of his own. So we met, we'd probably been dating for about probably about six, nine months. He met my son a little earlier because I was like almost like a single mum, so it was very difficult to always arrange to see him without my son. So he met my son before I met his children, and then we met in like a kind of a bounce park, you know, where they could almost play and it wasn't so heavy and informal, and they got on really well, it was really lovely. When he talked about his ex-wife, he said, you know, she's a really cool girl. We just drifted apart, we've been together since we were really young, and that's why we've separated almost. And I was like, Yeah, fair enough, it happens. So that sounds quite nice, isn't it? When someone's like, Do you know what? Great person, and you think, brilliant, this is going to be great. They'll have co-parenting sorted, I don't have to get involved in any of that, and um, yeah. Yeah, and that's exactly what I thought. I really, really loved the way he spoke about her. That I found that so attractive that, yeah, their kind of marriage had broken down, but he still really respected her as the mother of his children, you know, they had a good co-parenting relationship. So I was like, oh, that's brilliant. But then it kind of became evident to her that he was seeing someone, and then it all went downhill, like I've heard on so many of the other podcasts, yeah. Which is just it's such a difficult emotion, and there's so many times that I've thought from her point of view that how I would feel, and my ex has got a partner, and she's really lovely, but I would never strive to have like a personal relationship with my ex's new girlfriend because and nothing against her at all, because it is a difficult emotion that someone is around your child, and you know, kind of those intimate moments of oh, you're going to bed now, no, have you brushed your teeth? Just little things like that that I think should sometimes only be a mother's place, and I would never say anything badly against her, but I can see why some women find that you know, another woman coming into your child's life quite a difficult experience. So I was always trying to look and see where my husband's ex was coming from. I love that you've raised that because I always say it's hard for anyone to share their kids. And of course, we've had lots of women on the podcast who said, Well, actually, my stepson's mother is very happy to share him and obviously would love them to have more of an active role. But generally, you know, mothers find it hard to share their kids, and I think especially when I hear from a lot of stepmums, you know, a woman that I don't know is having such a massive influence on my life, and that is absolutely true, but then from the biological mum's perspective, a woman that she doesn't know and might not have chosen to be around her kids is having such a big impact on her life. And the thing that really upsets me is that, yes, of course, there are horrible people, but I do think a lot of it is good people being misread or being put in difficult situations, both stepmums and biological mums. You hear high conflict bio mum, you can also have high conflict stepmums, and there are both, and I would love for there to be a way that both groups of women could understand each other's experience a little bit better, so it didn't always feel like they were battling each other, and it wasn't always stepmums taking over and bio mums are psycho. You know, it's not that binary, is it? I'm really grateful that you raised that, and I think actually it's fine as the biological mum to not really want a relationship with the stepmum. You can be respectful, you can be kind, you can speak positively of them in your own home. That's all being supportive of your child's relationship. It doesn't mean you have to have one. Likewise, I don't believe that stepmums should have to have a relationship with the biological mum. Um, you know, I think I think it's very difficult and it depends hugely on the circumstances, and people should not feel under pressure to have a relationship, but equally, if they want to, great. Yeah. So going into it, you thought, right, your new partner has a decent relationship with his ex. Then she finds out he's dating. Yeah, so then it almost got quite dramatic since then. From that point, she was very like kind of turned the table, like would message me saying, Since you've been with him, he used to be such a wonderful dad, now he's not, even though I was very pro him seeing his children like more than anything. Because I had always had such a terrible relationship with my father. So I really admire good fathers and I would always want that. And I think that's why it's almost been the whole experience has been almost so traumatic because I'm like, why won't you let him just be a dad? Why won't you, why are you denying these children that experience of having a supportive father? So, and that's something I've had to deal with separately, and it's really brought that to light. But but as time went on, she would just almost threaten all the time, I'm gonna move away with the children, I'm gonna move away with the children. And I don't think I've heard it in previous podcasts, but where a mother has then moved the children away, and that has been so difficult because they obviously used to live like 10 minutes from their father, and now they live three hours away, and you know, to not have that choice of it's so I just find that mothers can really, and I'm really generalizing here, but mothers can really just do what they want with the children, and then the father has to almost just try and keep up with what's happening, and then obviously, unless you're going through court and you spend a huge amount of money, which we did do in the end, but it it's just so awful that that can happen, and then that distance is made, and no matter how many kind of video calls you make, how how much you put effort to see your children, it it breaks that relationship. No matter how much you dress it up, that it completely ruins the relationship. So, how did he go from living 10 minutes away to living three hours away? What so she got a new job which was three hours away and kind of dressed it up. Well, I've got a job now that's three hours away, and that's that basically. And she just moved them away and it was done. And by the time my husband found his speak with it all, it was all too late. And I don't know if it happens often or if it doesn't, but he just had no say in that, even though he does have joint custody. There's really nothing you can do because the courts will always say, as long as they have a house, that's it. They really don't care for the tit for tat of what should have happened, how it should have been approached, how you should respect the other parent. It really doesn't matter. They just care about that the children are okay and have a home. It's really sad, isn't it? And you think for you know, my husband and I, we both always wanted to live abroad, and it was always in both of our early life plans before we met each other. But of course, when we met, we both already had children, and we both said we wouldn't move abroad because obviously neither of us would want to move away from our children, but also I would never have moved abroad and taken my son away from his dad as much as I might have liked that for me, it's not the right thing for my child, and it's not it's not fair on his dad at the end of the day. So I find it really, you know. I guess if you if you need parental support, if you need family support, some people don't have a choice, but to move for a job unless there's like huge extenuating circumstances just seems like really, really, really rough on your husband. Yeah, and it really was, and you know, she had no family there, nothing. So it was just her and the two children, and just them, and the children are so close to my husband. So, how old were they when they met? So his daughter was seven, and his son was nearly ten. So, like really impactful years, and I can see the effect that it's had on them, and now every other weekend they have to travel three hours to our house, and then on a Sunday travel three hours back, and it's like children shouldn't be doing that every other weekend, I don't think, but that has to happen because otherwise we wouldn't see them, and I just find it all so upsetting and that you know they know that their parents don't get on at all, and I just there's just no thinking about the children in between any of it, and they've been ripped from their friends, ripped from where they grew up, and I really think she's done it just to hurt him, but then there's obviously hurt the children in turn of that. And how long had you guys been together when they moved? Probably about nine months. Oh wow, quick. Oh, it was so quick, it was so quick, and I I think it was honestly a reflection of her being like, Well, you've moved on, you've hurt me, so I'm gonna hurt you because I know that obviously he loves these children. And he she knew that that would kill him, and it's I'll get upset now, but it's almost like this like elephant in the room that he's forever lost his children, and it's just awful, and it's just there's nothing you can do about it because you know what's done is done, and she will never ever kind of move back, or and there's been lots of situations where she's had partners and it's broken down and things like that, which I kind of won't go into because it's just such a long story, but there's so many opportunities where she could have moved back, where she would have had support from her family, her friends, but I just feel like she does it just despite my husband. I just wish she could just think, yeah, I don't care about him, but it's the children, she holds no weight on their relationship with my husband, even though it's such a healthy relationship, and it's just been so traumatic. And I just think as well, people don't really talk about kind of meeting your children and like services on their M25 every other weekend, it's just yeah, yeah. And I feel like sometimes these mothers just get away with it because the children live with them, and that's that. And it's like little things like he'd say, Go to meet them on the services, collect them, and they wouldn't be there, and he'd be waiting in the car park for an hour before they turned up, you know, and that's not the children's fault, it's because she just does not respect my husband at all, or just thinks, oh, whatever, he can wait. And that's when we got to the point where we went to court because we were just like, we need to have something in place. So there's a court order that at this time we meet here, and at this time, you know, they're collected here, but and that is what we do, and it cost us a fortune, and it was literally just to put timings in place, and it just makes me so sad that there's so many step families that have to hold this weight of court dates and financial strain and just so they can see their children. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more on that. It's unfathomable to me that unless there is serious risk of harm to the children, that a mother wouldn't want her child to have a good relationship with their father. Even if you don't love him, even if you think he's an absolute dickhead, he's your kid's dad. Yeah, exactly. So they were seven and ten, roughly, you said when they moved. How old are they now, Grace? His daughter is 12 and his son is nearly 14. And how's it been for you then, going through you know, kind of five-year relationship of trying to get to know children who you only really see every other weekend? Yeah, it's been it's a really difficult emotion actually, because I can almost feel myself being quite harsh, not with them, but where in internally I'm thinking, oh, whatever, like whatever, they come every other weekend, just kind of ride it through and just kind of turn off. But then when I see them and when I'm with them, like I obviously love them, and it's so difficult. But I think we all kind of put up this facade that it's really difficult. And say, like, we get half the half term, so when they are with us for a half term and we get into the rhythm of being together, we have the best time, and we know that we have that almost saved time to really relax into each other, and but then it's ripped away again, and then we won't see them or talk to them for two weeks. And we do speak to his son a lot more now because he's older and he's got a phone, so we can text him, but with the daughter, we don't because she's younger, she doesn't have a phone, and I think she finds it quite difficult to talk to her dad on FaceTime because it just makes it very apparent that he's so far away. I've heard a lot of stories, and it's happened in my world as well, where you can hear somebody whispering things to the child on the other end. Yeah, oh yeah, that happens a lot, or even kind of earlier days, we'd be on FaceTime and his mum would come in the room and he'd just hang up, and it's almost unbearable, and it just seems so unfair. There's so many families that go through these situations, and we all just have to put up with it, and you have to make the best of it, and there's just no way around making it more comfortable or easier because the damage is done, it's already happening. And how old is your son now? So he's nine, and he adores them, he absolutely adores them, and he used to find it really difficult when they go and he calmed down their days until they came back. But he's really good. He's got into the rhythm of when they're there, when they're not, and he has lots of friends and he has loads of hobbies, so you know, during the two-week break, he's busy. He probably can't remember a life without them. No, yeah, no, he can't. And I've really had to kind of work on it, not letting it affect my world. I used to almost obsess about it all the time, all the time thinking, oh, why can't she be more reasonable? Why can't she be more understanding that even no matter what she thinks of him, the children and my husband have their own relationship that's important, and yeah, it there's just but again, there's just no winning. So, what can you do? She never ever references me in anything, and I know there's a lot of women that have found that difficult, where obviously, when you're with them, you really care for them like they're your own children, and she would never mention my name, she doesn't acknowledge that I'm even anything. I've got a lot better with that now. But at first, I was like, why doesn't she acknowledge me? Why doesn't she notice that all I would do is love her children and you know, nothing else? But she just no respect, nothing. How has it affected your relationship with your husband? Do you think? Um, we are really strong and we communicate so much, but there was definitely I say the first three years where we used to talk about it all the time, and it used to really be this massive thing in our relationship. And I think I've heard it on other podcasts with you where you know you have to make a point of being like, no, we're not talking about this anymore. And I used to get in such a state the way she spoke to him, what she'd say to him, and we trialed him not telling me anything, but then I'd get really anxious, thinking, Oh, I don't know what's going on, and so it's really hard to get that sweet spot where you know enough information that you can support them, but you don't know too much that you get in a complete spiral of thinking, oh, why are they talking like that? But and more than anything, I find it so disrespectful that she talks to my husband like that. I'm like, that's my husband, you know. You don't have the right to talk to him the way you talk to him anymore. If that was the kind of marriage you had where you talk to each other like that, but I don't want you speaking to my husband like that. How does she speak to him? Oh, so badly. I could I couldn't even repeat the words, but really abusively, and I think if a man spoke to a woman like that, she could easily call the police and he'd get arrested for it. 100%. And I just think it's the whole frustration of how is this fair? How is this fair? He just brain rock methods here now, you know, he really doesn't reply to any anything apart from if he has to reply to a question about the children, but everything else he just doesn't rise to anymore. But again, that's taken a long time for us to get there because you want to defend yourself, don't you? Oh, absolutely. It's the most natural human instinct when somebody lies or says something negative, or says something that's completely not true. That you actually maybe have written evidence that aren't true and not get dragged into that defending yourself. But actually, you know, I speak to a lot of women who've had these experiences, I've had some of these experiences. There's no point because someone's already made up their mind about who you are, and they've decided that, and there's no point in you putting your case forward as much as you would want to. It's a waste of your time. Yeah. Yeah. But my golly, has that taken so much of like my soul almost to get to the point where I'm like, don't care, I won't care. But it takes such a long time to get to that point. When I work with a lot of women on this, is it's not necessarily about not caring, but it's about working out what's the response that's going to be the best for your well-being overall and going through that. And even though it might feel unnatural, you're doing it because you know actually that's the best thing for me. Because we're not dealing with people who are going to write back and say, Oh, you're right, actually. Thanks for flagging that. I have got it wrong. I'm so sorry. Exactly. No, she's never ever going to turn around and say, you know, the way I spoke to you, I shouldn't have done that, and I'm really sorry. That's never going to happen ever. And just accepting that, and like you're saying, if people think that way about you, you have to just let them think like that. Unfortunately, it is what it is. And but I have found through all this experience, there used to be a lot of times where I used to get so anxious that the way she spoke about us, the children, and the things she used to say about their dad to them. I was like, oh my, they're gonna think that, they're really gonna think that, they're gonna believe it. But I can say love has definitely won. They don't think that of us. And it's astonishing, really, because she's tried so hard for them to think badly of us, and it hasn't worked, and it's a miracle because they know who we are when they're with us, and I think that's a massive thing that kind of when set mums or dads are thinking, oh, they're gonna turn the children against me. I just think you know who people are, and especially if you're in a family, people really closely, and you do know who they are, but it doesn't make it any heavier on the children, and I really do hate that for them, yeah, and it will be sad because eventually they will grow up and they will understand those dynamics, but it sounds like it won't have ruined their relationship with you or their dad. Yeah. How's their relationship with your son? Because I imagine it's quite hard for them watching him be with their dad a lot of the time. Yeah, actually, they've been really brilliant with that. They have. I remember kind of early days her saying, you know, well, Daddy only likes my son, and you know, Danny's spending money on Grace's little boy, and like they've got a new family now, and you're not involved. And I really thought that that would have a huge impact of them not liking my son. But again, luckily it hasn't, and they're really all so close. And I do sometimes worry worry what they say when they're back at the house with in their kind of world with her. I wouldn't be surprised if they say certain things about their dad, about me and my son, to appease her almost and to not cause a storm. I don't know that for fact, but I can just imagine the way that she goes on at them, they're very like yes, mum, no mum, whatever you say. I think a lot of the time it is that it is like that entry ticket back into mum's home and mum's heart is to just drop a few negative things about the other house. I hear that all the time. I hear it from friends of mine who are adults who grew up in split households. He'll say, I loved my stepmum, but I knew I had to just say a few things about my mum just to appease her and make her happy. So you just have to trust, like you say, that that relationship holds. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I do worry about them growing up and the toil it will take on them, but again, that's lots of anxiety, worrying about the future and worrying about this, and it's just that kind of trying to let everything go a little bit and what will be will be. It's so important to do that, and it sounds hard, it's another thing I work on with a lot of women and couples because these things can really come in the middle of relationships, but just to realise that you can't solve problems that don't yet exist, so work on what you have got at the moment. But it's amazing that you and your husband have managed to stay so strong through this while there's clearly been so much emotion. Sometimes I see with couples almost the worse the bio mum is can almost bond you together because you're both in it together. I think that definitely helped. She was almost so adamant on us not being together that it kind of early stages of relationship. I thought, well, there's no way I'm not being with him now. But no, it's really kind of brought us together. Have you and the kids always had a good relationship? Yeah, we've always had a really, really good relationship. I've always been really close. But again, I do worry what they then say back at the other house. But I think that is just kind of to keep the peace and to keep their lives as you know, non-conflict as possible. So it never feels like a hundred percent a safe relationship. Whereas obviously, like with me and my bio-son, that relationship is so solid. Well, it's unbreakable. I could bet my whole life that he doors me into the end of the world. But I think that where they've had to learn to adapt and to make it peaceful everywhere, I worry that sometimes things aren't genuine, and that can be really hurtful sometimes. Do you find yourself not being completely you when they're there? Yeah, definitely. Um, definitely. And even still now, five years on, when I know they're about to say arrive at the house, I'm I can feel my heart start to beat and always I'm very wary of their reaction. Will they be happy? Will they be whereas if my son was coming in from school or coming being dropped somewhere, even if he didn't come and see me and went straight to his room, I wouldn't even cross my mind that he was being a bit off with me or anything. So I think it's just such a relationship that you overthink and you overthink and you overthink. But I have found, and I don't know if this will hurt any other slipmamas, but I've found kind of being in a book. I know this sounds a bit weird, but every time they are with us for like say a weekend or half term, I always have stages. Say I'm feeling a little bit anxious, I'll just go back into reading my book just for a couple of pages, just so that I'm not completely engrossed in the real world. And I found that really helps. It just takes me out of what's happening and say, I don't know, the mum's texting their son, and he's saying, Oh, well, mum said this. I just go and read just just for a little bit, so I don't get completely consumed by what's happening. Yeah, I've never had that idea. I like that. You talked a bit about the anxiety you feel before they come. When they're there, do you find that settles quite quickly, or do you still feel kind of, you know, I know a lot of the women I talk to, and I I've definitely been like this in the past to be like, I've got to get the dinner right that they really like, and I've got to, you know, make sure that I've got their fresh bedding on that they really like. And I've in almost trying to trying to do everything you can to make them comfortable and make them feel happy, safe, loved in your home. Yeah, no, I do, and I don't think that ever stops. Like, for example, my stepdaughter has a night light that you have to charge, so I'm always like, I have to charge the light, I change her bed, you know, just the little things that you know mean a lot, and you hope that they kind of feel comforted by it. But again, I don't think that emotion ever goes where you put so much weight on the bits and pieces. Where with your children, if my son got into bed and was like, Oh, well, you didn't um you haven't charged my nightlight, I'd be like, Oh, well, you get over it, use something else. You know, it's so true, it's so funny. I I picked up my two little biological children today from school, they're eight and nine, and um, they said, Oh, what's for dinner? And I said, Spaghetti bolognese. And they went, Oh, brilliant. And then I got home and I didn't actually have any spaghetti. So I was like, it's fine, I'll do like pasta bake with the bolognese sauce. Did it, put it out, and my son prefers that to his oh brilliant pasta bake. And my daughter's like, You said it was spaghetti bolognese. And I'm literally like, Well, dry your eyes, it's basically the same thing. Whereas I know if it was my stepdaughter, not they've never done that, and I'm not saying that they would do that, but I know I would have been like, it's fine, we'll go to the shop, we'll get some spaghetti, you know, everything will stop. Because it's just like you say, it still feels quite delicate, even if it is strong, it's still quite delicate, and it is a bit like walking on eggshells, and it's not to be critical of them because they haven't done anything, but you so badly want them to want to be there, I guess. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And even sometimes when say I've had a really heavy week at work and it's their weekend that we've got them coming up. I I still think now to this day, like, oh, for God's sake, like I would just love a weekend because I know I work harder, I know I think more, I know, you know, the whole, even like when I know the mum's gonna come and pick them up, that whole kind of hour before she comes on a Sunday evening, it's horrible. I'm anxious, my heart's racing. I and I don't even see her. They literally are old enough now to be like, bye, bye-bye, and go out the front door, shut the front door, don't even see her. But it's just, I guess, that past trauma of how it used to feel, what the interactions used to be like. I know, and your nervous system is still on high alert, it doesn't, it hasn't forgotten what that's like, so it's no surprise that you still respond like that because your nervous system hasn't been retrained to respond any differently yet. Exactly. So, in that last hour before they go, I do I fold the washing, I put the washing away, I've put another wash on. My house has never been so clean because I just can't sit with that feeling. I find it really uncomfortable. So I've kind of found these bits and pieces of way and it's what I do when I know it's really heightened of how it makes me feel better. So I always kind of get busy with washing on the Sunday evening, I read my book. It's so funny you say that. So I'm running a workshop at the moment over six weeks with a bunch of wonderful women, and there's a WhatsApp group that's going on, and we've had rage cleaning, we've had, you know, all sorts because you do need those things. I always say, like, when something's happened and I feel angry, and it doesn't even have to be in in stepfamily life, but I'll swim and I will swim fast in the one way. So it's good to have those outlets, but it's obviously even better to change the pattern. Yeah, I know it's very difficult because they're never gonna move back closer. I would know that. And I obviously we thought about moving nearer them, but I we feel like she would then move again to kind of despite my husband. And I just I don't understand the bitterness still, all this time on, she'll she's still so abusive to him, but you can't alter someone to behave better, so you have to find a way where you almost have to like build this kind of protection around you and your life and what's healthy, what's safe, and try and keep it as almost outside noise. Um you talked at the beginning about how her family still live near you. So, do her family still have a good relationship with the children? Yeah, they do. The children absolutely adore her parents, and that is such a special relationship for them. And so it's not just us, they're not near, it's them as well. I know no, not everyone lives popping around for a cup of tea distance away, but even like an hour, you know, you can make things work, can't you? And they don't get that with them. It has to be everything has to be very planned. Are you around this weekend? It's more than one night, otherwise, it's not really worth it for the drive for the children. So that has obviously affected their relationship as well. And now they're kind of in this almost like legal binding thing where they see us every other weekend because they have to, because otherwise we wouldn't, well, especially my husband, wouldn't see his children. And you don't ever really want that for your children, you want it to be a more fluid, like, oh yeah, I'll pick you up from football. No, I'm not meant to have you on Wednesday, but do you want to come around for dinner? No, everything has to be so precise, so planned. There's no natural relationship anymore. And I just think that is devastating. But I think it happens to a lot of people, and I think it's just awful when children are meeting their other parents in car parks or lay by to switch around. It just makes me cringe, and so many people have to do it, and so many children think that's a normal reality when it shouldn't be really, but it is. Yeah, I remember my husband and his children were only an hour away, but they used to switch over, had different sort of arrangements over the years, but there was a period where they would switch over halfway, and I think maybe because it was mutually convenient, it wasn't something my husband was told he had to do, but he hated it. The switch in the car park, it just felt so inhumane and cold, and we don't do that at the moment, it's always a house changeover, which just feels nicer, and I know a lot of families don't have the luxury of choosing or having a relationship where the other parent will collaborate, yeah. But yeah, that there is something about that switching over a garage that just feels cold, doesn't it? It does, and just sad and sad for the children because they love their mum, they love their dad. So and the fact that she won't even look up at my husband to just pretend in front of the children, like, hey, you're right, you know, you don't have to be like, oh, hello, how's your week been? Oh, it's great to see you, you know. But just take that anxiety off the children, knowing that their parents, you know, my husband will still be like, Hi, how are you? Hope your drive's been all right, you know, but she will not even acknowledge him, and it's just the weight. And even when my stepdaughter the other night was talking about getting married, and she said, Oh, I would never get married, and my husband was like, Oh, why, why? And she was like, She looked at him like, 'Are you stupid?' She was like, My wedding would be flames because you would just be awful because you and Mum hate each other. I know, and she's 12, you know, and you just think, Oh, it shouldn't be like that. They shouldn't even notice that it's not about their parents on their wedding day, is it? God, that's a heavy weight for a little kid to carry. Yeah, and that's the thing, they've carried it so often, and they're constantly saying, God, mum, all she does is slag dad off all the time. And you just think, oh god, get a life. Like, but interesting that they say that to you. They obviously feel very comfortable with you being able to say that because I think a lot of children experience that but wouldn't go and say it in the other house. I think they don't know that I don't like their mum. I'm very, very neutral, you know. I just be like, don't know, you know, because I don't want to put any more weight on them. It's even more difficult. So I think they see me as a bit of a sounding board sometimes. That's really nice, isn't it? And interesting that whatever issue their mum has with their dad, she probably hasn't vocalized any issues with you. No, yeah. I think her daughter said um I was a bit loud. I was like, oh. I don't see her, but I'll take that. So it sounds like whilst it's been a good place you've got to, there's been some ups and downs along the way. Yeah, definitely. And there's still to this day very mixed emotions, and even though I a hundred percent love them, I do love them, sometimes I can feel in my body, saying they're playing up, or my stepdaughter can be quite braty sometimes, she's at that age. And I really think internally, oh, she's such a brat, she's so spoiled. And when I I'm thinking in my head, I can be almost quite spiteful about her, and I'm sorry to my husband as well. So she's being such a spoiled brat, and he's very defensive of her anyway. But then when I then see her, I don't feel that, and it's always this very mixed emotion of, oh, well, I'm not fussed anyway, because she's behaving like this, but then I do suffer to her, so it's definitely different to my biological son, where of course he can misbehave, and I can think, oh, but I never think badly about him and my thoughts. That's really interesting, and I'm really grateful that you raised that because there's so many women who talk to me who have really uncomfortable thoughts and don't have anywhere to raise them and think they're the only people who are having them. So when you have those thoughts of, like, oh, she's such a brat, is that more when you're not physically with her, like during during the two-week break? Yes, yes, sometimes more. Sometimes even in the house, she can be quite almost selfish. But I I'm comfortable enough to say to her, you're being really selfish, but then I feel it almost quite in my blood, if that makes sense. I'm like, you are being so selfish, but I think it's almost just a mix of everything, like this sadness that comes with my relationship with them. Whereas I can definitely think that my son's being selfish, but I don't get the same mixed emotions with it. I'm just thinking he's just being selfish and it's not tainted. And I feel like my emotions can sometimes be really tainted with my stepchildren, and quite just not a hundred percent genuine, you know, that kind of pure love. And I think it's because it comes with a lot of anxiety, my love around them. Yeah, and also from that place where tied up in them is the things that their mum has done, and you can logically separate it and you know that none of that is their fault, but sometimes in those moments, a lot of women will say to me, I see flashes of her mum in her. And that's hard for dads as well, right? To see flashes of their ex and their kids. But I think what you're talking about is so important in terms of recognising that you can have really difficult feelings about someone, yeah. And I think that sometimes I can feel like that, as long as I never make them feel attacked, or I would never say that to them ever. But I don't think people should be so hard on themselves if they're finding those emotions just pop in their head. And sometimes I do think it, and I think, well, that's how I feel, that's how my body feels. Because, like you say, it's not just about them, it's laced in everything that comes with them. It's laced in the fact that my husband has to drive three hours to see his children, it's laced in that his ex talks to him in the most disgusting way and he just has to take it because it's his ex-wife. It's laced in so many anxieties around it that, like you say, it's not their fault at all. But you can't help that your body, when you see them and you see their face and you see their mannerisms, that it doesn't tie in with other moments that you've seen them and you've felt that way, and your brain disconnects it all. Yeah, a hundred percent. And what you're talking about feeling in your body is something I work with women a lot on because your body will know before your brain does, and a lot of the time we'll say, right, that's your first signal. So whether it's your heart racing or your chest tensing, or a client said to me the other day, you know, I literally feel like my head's getting hot, like it's gonna explode. And it's those warning signals that your nervous system's saying, I'm not safe, I'm not safe, I'm not safe. And that's when you have to pause and listen to your body. So I love the fact that you've been able to tune into that and actually really notice it. Yeah, and I've found that what really helps sometimes, like when they do get picked up and they go, I just take the dog out for a really fast walk, just to almost break that okay, they've gone now, and just go for a really big walk, and then I come back and then it's almost cleared out of me a little bit. Yeah, definitely. So many. Women will say that moment when the stepchildren leave, and especially either if it's been a great weekend and you and your partner really miss them, or if it's been a shit weekend, or really anything in between, but a lot of the time you don't want the emotions from that to dominate the rest of your evening. So a good physical reset, a shower, a fast walk with the dog, a run, whatever it is, rage cleaning, even if you're not feeling rageful, can be really good at just like you say, getting out of your system and having a reset. I wanted to ask you back then. You said sometimes when you say something about the children, your husband can get defensive, which obviously isn't a new thing that we've heard. Can you share a bit more about how that shows up and pans out? Oh, so oh, she's so spoiled, she can be such a brat sometimes. And it's normally because I'm being protected by my son, because my son is younger, sometimes he'll go to bed earlier because I I just know him, I can see it in him when he's getting almost a bit too silly or I can see he's so tired. So I put him to bed a bit earlier, and then when she goes upstairs to bed, she'll be obnoxiously almost loud, she'll purposely try to wake him up. And I think that's more just being a sibling and being annoying, opposed to you're doing that to my son. But I have to really say to myself, she's just being a sibling opposed to your daughter is trying to wake up my son. But where I'm defending or my body naturally is like, oh, my, you know, you're doing that to my son. He's obviously thinking she's not doing that purposely. So we'll both get into a little bit of a thing like she's not doing that, and he's not doing that. But again, we're really good at communicating and we can comfortably say out loud, like, oh, she's really being a witch, and he'll be like, Oh, whatever. And then the next second we're fine, you know? Because he knows I love them, but he knows that I sometimes need to just say how I'm feeling, because otherwise I would start to resent, I think. And that is such an important point because the resentment when women don't have a space to speak up will just kill you. So if there is somebody listening who is at the beginning of all of this, Grace, and having been through, as you said at the beginning, some quite traumatic experiences, what would your advice be to them? My advice would be find something to keep yourself busy during either job flops, pickups, those times where everything gets heightened. That has definitely helped me. Just to not be kind of say sitting in the living room waiting for the door to go or one of the children's phones to say on mum's outside. Look after yourself above everything, just protect your peace of mind and no weight of what the other family say. They don't know you, they don't know you personally, they don't know any of your kind of past experiences, and as well, like obviously love your stepchildren, enjoy your time with them, but don't give your soul to everything because you will burn out and then you'll resent them and you'll resent the situation. And don't try so hard. People will love you because they love you, and if they don't, they don't. You can't buy that affection, unfortunately. And I'm sure if your partner has introduced you to their children, it's because they think you're a good enough person to be introduced to their children, so you just have to trust it, I think. Such, such brilliant advice. And I love that you said that at the end about not trying harder because it's so counterintuitive, isn't it? Like so many of the women I know who listen to this podcast, the women who come to me for coaching workshops, they are intelligent, they've got their own careers, they've grown up learning that they can solve problems, a difficulty comes along, you evaluate your options, you pick the best one, you saw, you know, and then you become a stepmom and it's like bam, none of that shit works anymore. It's so true. I have a really, really like intense job communicating with loads of different people, and then the thought of coming head to head with my husband's ex would literally terrify me. I would lose, strips my confidence. It's crazy, it's absolutely crazy because of what she thinks of me, and that's for no reason with no foundation. So you have to just think again and again, I'm not that person, I am who I am. That takes a lot of managing of your emotions and your mental state, I think. Yeah, it definitely does. Um that's why I'm especially grateful to you for being so open about it all and sharing about it. So at the beginning, you said I wanted to do this because I thought it might help somebody, and I can guarantee it will have done. So a massive, massive thank you for getting in touch with me and for sharing everything so openly. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much, Grace. What a gorgeous soul and a very, very honest conversation, as always. There was a moment there that I keep coming back to where Grace said that she loves her stepchildren, but that that love comes with anxiety laced through it. I think a lot of you will have heard that and felt something quietly loosening yourselves because maybe you've thought it too and never quite been able to say it out loud. If today's episode resonated and you want support with any of it, whether that's understanding your own patterns, working on your relationship, or just feeling less alone and being with other women who really understand, come and find us at stepmumspace.com. The support we offer is there when you're ready. I'll be back next week with another new episode. Hit follow in your podcast app and you will never miss a thing. See you next time.