"Me Being Me Wasn't Enough" - Stepmum Expectations, Infertility & the Picture in Your Head

this episode includes an open conversation about infertility and pregnancy loss. 

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If you came into stepfamily life carrying years of hope, and found that reality felt nothing like the picture in your head, this episode is for you. Lucy spent years trying to conceive on her own before meeting her now husband, and she didn't realise how much that history had shaped her expectations of what this family would look like. This is an honest conversation about stepmum resentment, the spiral of overthinking, and what it actually takes to stop trying to change what you can't. This episode is especially for stepmums who are independent, high-achieving, and completely blindsided by the fact that working harder isn't fixing it.

WHAT WE COVER

• Why the grief of infertility and pregnancy loss shapes your expectations of stepfamily life in ways you don't see coming — and what to do when reality doesn't match the picture
• The specific moment the honeymoon period ends and the real work begins — and why it hits independent, capable women particularly hard
• Why resentment towards your partner is more common than resentment towards the stepchildren — and how to have that conversation without it turning into a critique of his parenting
• The fact, feeling, need framework — a simple tool for having difficult conversations without sounding accusatory
• Why "just disengage" doesn't work for women who genuinely care — and what actually helps instead
• What being comfortable with being uncomfortable really means in practice — and why acceptance is not the same as giving up

Head to stepmumspace.com to book your free clarity call

Transcript

Katie South 0:01

Before we start today, this episode contains an honest conversation about infertility and pregnancy loss. If that's something you're navigating right now, please take care of yourself as you listen. Lucy had done five rounds of IVF on her own, three miscarriages and two rounds that didn't work. And eventually she made a decision. Stop IVF and focus on finding someone instead. When she met him online, his kids were in every photo. Lucy wasn't put off, she thought, ready-made family, more love, not less. And why would anyone push that away? What she didn't know was how much the years of hoping for a family of her own had shaped the picture in her head, and how hard it would hit when reality looked nothing like it. I'm Katie South, stepfamily specialist and coach, and this is Stepmum Space, the judgment-free zone where we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of stepmum life. So whether you've been a stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the stepmom in your life a bit better, this is the place for you. My guest today, Lucy, talks candidly about what she was really walking into and what it took to find her place in it. Lucy is also one of my clients, and I've had the privilege of working with her for a little while now. And I know that you are going to love this chap. She's got so much insight to share. I'm really happy today to be joined by Lucy, who I've gotten to know quite well. Welcome Lucy. Thank you so much for joining us. It's great to be on here. And as always, I'd love it if you could start by just sharing a little bit about how you first became a stepmum.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

So I've been single for many years, bad dating in London and all sorts. And then during COVID, I moved outside of London and started Tinder and met my now husband on Tinder five years ago. He had two kids already, a girl, 16, 16 now, 14 boy. And we met and hit it off dating during COVID to start with, social distancing and all that. And there we got married about 18 months ago.

Katie South 2:19

Oh, lovely. It's funny how COVID just amplified this dating for people, which is really ironic because the whole thing was about not being connected. But then for some it was definitely a really interesting time. And how did you feel about the fact that he had kids when you first met?

SPEAKER_01 2:35

I was quite excited by that prospect because I I wasn't able to have kids of my own. So I it was like, cool, if I meet someone with kids, then it's a ready-made family. I can go in, I can do my thing. I don't need to go down the path of I might not be able to have kids and disappoint someone if they wanted them and blah blah blah. In that sense, it wasn't a daunting concept. I didn't have any stepmom friends to hear any horror stories. So I in my mind it was a cool, I'm getting another family. I'm I'm this is my chance to be a sort of a motherly figure, if you like.

Katie South 3:10

Yeah, it's almost that hope and naivety all messed up as one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah.

Katie South 3:17

So after you met in lockdown, became serious with your now husband. How was the first meeting with the kids?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I was the most nervous I've probably been in my life because I we met after six, about six months. So we were partly because of COVID, but also because we just didn't want to rush it. They had no interest in meeting kids, and in my view, forming attachments to kids that may not then stay in my life. And my husband also then didn't want to introduce anyone else into their life that wasn't serious. So it was about six months, and we met at a coffee shop, and it was nice. They're quieter kids, and I think they would have been quieter even anyway, meeting someone they don't know. But I was introduced as a friend, although the eldest who would have been, oh, I don't know, about 11-ish, 12-ish at that point. She later said she knew it was more because we'd shared a brownie. So she'd figured that out, which she then told us later. But so yeah, we had an hour's meeting, and that was that. Of the way, that's like the framework for other eating. I know. Yeah, we shared a brownie. The boy was eitish at that point. I can't even remember now, but death awareness. But it was fine, it wasn't too high pressured. It was probably, yeah, half an hour to an hour or something. And uh, but yeah, I was I was scared, very scared, more scared than excited.

Katie South 4:45

What do you think you were scared of?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

I knew I really liked this guy. I'd waited my whole life to meet someone that really was like the one. And I knew I was gonna hopefully marry this guy, and I really wanted all of that, and I didn't want it to. I didn't want to be a negative person. I didn't want the kids not to like me. And so I think I can't remember if I tried too hard or not, to be honest. It went fine, so maybe not, but and in half an hour, there's only so much trying too hard you can do. But uh yeah, I think that's why I was just so nervous and scared that I was gonna mess it up.

Katie South 5:20

Obviously, we've had conversations before this recording today, and you've talked a bit about how you've got a lot of friends with kids and a lot of godchildren. So you're someone who naturally kids gravitate to you get on well with them. How was the first meeting with his children compared to other children that you've met?

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah, I don't it's weird, isn't it? I think because the pressure was on, there was more because I wanted it to work so badly, and I guess I had this vision that we'd become some kind of family and we'd spend more time together. And I knew he only had them once in the week and then at the week every other weekend. So I knew it wasn't like a full-time role, if you like. But I think it was the pressure of that made it made it different to meeting my friend's kids and being involved in their lives. And I think to be honest with you, meeting friends' kids, most of them I met when they were babies, and I've so I've they'd grown up with me, I'd grown up with them. And I guess I didn't connect it. I was just so worried that I wanted it to work that I didn't think my neighbours who have teenagers that I get on really well with now. I met them as teenagers, and that relationship was fine. So I didn't overthink it back then, other than I just want it to work. I think.

Katie South 6:29

And I guess you don't you don't think, oh, my best friend might ditch me if her kids don't like me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

This is very true. It's very true. Yeah, exactly. So where did it go from there? So we went slowly, and then yeah, we I brought in I have a dog, and that was quite a like a good, not a middle thing. I don't know how to describe it, but it was quite a good way to bond with them in some ways, and we did dog walks, and so there was never any high-pressured meeting, and then there was a a sort of a family member death in their family, and so on, and so I was around a lot more. So it then it was Lucy's gonna stay over now, and so it gilt up, but it felt slow enough. It was probably over the period from after meeting them at six months, it was probably two to three months that then I was very much dad's girlfriend, and uh they knew that I might be around, and and and that was how it how it worked, really.

Katie South 7:30

And how was the relationship between you guys? How did they take to you being around more?

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Do you know it's quite hard to remember the early days, like the really early days, because it's easier to remember when we all started living together in those times because they were around more. But I think I felt I was still I was dad's friend. There wasn't the I say opportunity or need for me to get involved with the more parenting things because we were meeting to go for walks, we were maybe having brunch together, or we were doing little activities in bite size. It wasn't until they started to, which was about 18 months, that they started to come and stay for a weekend at my house because my husband moved into my home, which we now share. And so that was when I, you know, I say it started to go, it started to go differently, but it it certainly starts to feel different because it was less about, I guess, dating each other, the getting to know each other part. It was more this is real life, or I don't know, the dynamics of day-to-day, that sort of thing.

Katie South 8:36

And when you moved in together, obviously big shift for you. You said you'd lived on your own, you'd been single for you'd got the man of your dreams living with you, which in some ways must have been wonderful. How is it suddenly having two kids there every other weekend?

SPEAKER_01 8:50

So again, I think I went into it thinking, okay, this is quite cool. I get him to myself for a weekend and in the week, we can do whatever we want to do. And then every other weekend they're around and we get to the with this family thing, and we can do more cool stuff, but like family and kids stuff. So again, I think I was definitely like optimistic going in and hadn't really thought about it. And then I didn't really realize, you know, what happens when the kids don't want to do anything all weekend, and as they've got older into much more of the teenage years, they barely want to leave their room all weekend, let alone even come for a day trip somewhere or do something. And so I guess that's there was a bit of shift in terms of maybe they were letting themselves be normal with me once they moved in. They weren't playing a role. And I then saw this kind of this is the day-to-day of a tween or a teenager or whatever face it was over the last five years. And so that became more visible. It almost, not that it got boring, but it became a it was that mundane part, the getting to know you bit, the honeymoon period where didn't overthink things, didn't do it, and then you get into that what's the day-to-day and how does it all work? And I guess then that's when challenges started to come up. And I certainly started to overthink a lot more and topics like roles and where can I play and where can I not play? That certainly became a much bigger filler in my head, if you like, for when once my husband had moved in and we were then then we were engaged and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, that was the shift and the difference. I think it was that I'm like, I like process and I like to know my role and I like to know what I'm accountable for and all this sort of stuff. And one of the things I've definitely learned about step parenting is that it's a lot of grey, it's a lot of murky. One week it's one thing, the next week it's another thing. And it's also what could be right one week isn't necessarily right the next week. And I don't, I think I was looking for much clearer definition than what my husband, my stepkids, my like everyone involved, if you will, was able to give me. No one was able to say, these are your role and responsibilities, this is what you're applying for, and this is what it will be. Because I was like, is it my decision? Is it their decision? Who gets to choose? And I couldn't just I wasn't able just to let things be and evolve. Lots of people have said it could take it's seven years, this seven-year thing of being a proper blended family or whatever the word is. And I was like, Oh, that's a long time. I was like, how am I not going to live with understand boundaries and rules and how things work?

Katie South 11:35

I really hate that because it makes it sound like a everything's gonna be fine in seven years, just seven years.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Exactly, exactly. And I think, and it's only recently that I've let go of this seven years thing, and it's just been like, do you know what? It will be what it will be, when it will be it, and however it comes and goes. And it might get two steps forward, ten steps back, twenty steps forward, two steps back. And I think being comfortable with being uncomfortable was the biggest learning thing that I have I've had to learn, and I definitely haven't nailed it by any means. Uh, but it's that's the biggest thing for sure. Yeah. Being uncomfortable with the not knowing or the changing minds or the any part of the dynamic, that's the bit that I've had to adjust to for my personality style.

Katie South 12:23

Yeah, because like you say, if you're someone who you want clarity, you want to know what you're accountable for, what you're not accountable for, and then suddenly you end up in this role that really has no definition. Some things you should people think you should do, some people think you don't. And yeah, it can be so confusing for people. And I think when you talked earlier about how you had wanted to have your own children, so you probably go in with an even clearer idea of this is what I want our family to be like.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, and I think no, I think that's spot on, and I think that one again, that's my other like I didn't think I was bringing much luggage to the relationship because I'd been single for so long, and I was probably but I didn't, I don't think I really anticipated how much dealing with infertility, dealing with my miscarriage, dealing with not having my own family would play in how I, my high expectations of what I wanted this family to look like, the way I expected the kids to just respond to me, the way I hoped we'd be playing board games every Friday night, that I don't I just didn't appreciate how much that would that had shaped that picture. It wasn't just when we're little girls and we're all playing having getting married and having kids when we're five to ten and all this sort of thing. And whilst that may have been there from the stereotypes, it was much more around the five to ten years before I met my husband that had shaped my high expectations of what I would what I wanted this to be, and therefore the big sense of disappointment that it didn't reach those expectations, hopes, dreams of what I wanted it to be. Now I know quite maybe quite unrealistic, or maybe not, and maybe that's just fine. And I tried to find the right partner for a long time and I couldn't, so I decided to do it on my own and find a spam donor and go it all through. And I did about five rounds of IVF over about three, four years. Last one finishing the year before I met my husband, and three of those ended in miscarriages, two of them didn't work, all early miscarriages.

Katie South 14:43

I'm so so I'm so sorry you went through that. That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

It's uh it is, and doing it on my own was I was used to doing stuff on my own, so I didn't, I guess I didn't know I had some very supportive family and friends and stuff, but it's not quite the same as having a partner to try and start a family with. So I didn't know any different. I didn't know what it would be like to have someone support you when you're you're going through miscarriages and host hospital visits and stuff, but it definitely didn't kill all my hope. And so obviously it didn't work, and I came to the conclusion that I couldn't try again. I didn't I didn't have it in me, and I needed to instead focus on meeting someone. I had these two the two dreams meet someone, have kids, and I while I was doing the IBF, I'd had a few dates, but it's a bit weird to say you're doing this and then you're trying to meet somebody. So I said stop any dating activity. And I made the decision to stop the IBF and find someone. And if they happen to want kids, we'd try it. If I was open, but I was really prepared to speak to people that didn't that didn't want kids or had them already and didn't want any more because I wasn't resting it all on I need to find someone in in my 40s that still wants kids and because it's Slim Pickens by that point. So yeah, so that was the sort of lead-up to it.

Katie South 16:05

You talked a bit about how that experience of wanting to have children had shaped your ideas of what it would be like coming in family, and you talked about having a ready-made family and then you becoming part of that family. What were you hoping it would be like?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Honestly, I I watched so many Robcoms and so much American family TV shows where step parents, if they're even in it, get on everyone gets on with everyone, everyone's popping into each other's garden saying hi and all this. And I I think I just thought it would just work. I think I just thought there wouldn't be difficult issues with an ex. There wouldn't because I think I just didn't think. For someone who is an overthinker, because it was it's what you don't know, you don't know. Do you know what I mean? And I hadn't had any friends with difficult step family relationships. I had none, and I this day I still don't have many. Um so I didn't have any reason to think it wouldn't be anything like one of the nice TV shows or American shows where families are just they just work. Um the more love the better. And if you've got someone that's willing to help out and do things, why wouldn't you want to take it? I never thought that help wouldn't be welcomed or you do know I'd if there's stuff to give, there's love to give, and there's a willing person to be involved, why would that be a bad thing? And I so I I guess it didn't go any further than that, really.

Katie South 17:27

Yeah, which is completely understandable because in every other walk of life, like they say it takes a village, and then suddenly if a village includes a stepmom, maybe not apart from you.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, and I think this is and I'd played a role with neighbours' kids during COVID. I was bubbled up with another family, and I went round and I we did tie-dyeing and we did activities, and it's like and the f parents like, oh, cool idea, let's do it. And I think I guess I've just been really maybe I've been lucky, I've just been very welcomed into supporting friends with their kids, whether it's off them off their hands for an afternoon, taking them on holiday, or just coming in having a cup of tea. I've never had any pushback on that. I've never had you're overstepping the mark or you're not in you're not there. So I guess I didn't even think I needed to do anything different. I thought that just showing up and offering and being there would be normal. And where did the pushback come from? If I'm honest now, I think there was internal pushback for me because I don't think I offered as much. I didn't actually treat it in the way because I was one, I was so scared of it going wrong. So I wasn't probably my natural self. So I probably didn't push and offer as much as I would have done to my friends' kids and godkids and stuff. And then I guess the biggest barrier is that uh the kids are very different to me in terms of personality and hobbies and what they like to do. So before my ideas would be welcomed with hey, yeah, cool, fine, let's do it, let's great, blah, blah, blah. And they called flat. And there wasn't much they want to do that, or like clearly they didn't enjoy it, or and so I suddenly was like, Oh, this isn't working. This isn't quite going as I planned, planned, hoped, whatever. And then I was like, and that is really when I guess I started to slot more in terms of I don't know what I'm doing here. I mean a job wherever my stars have worked my way up. I'm like, okay, my mind I've failed here. Me being me isn't enough in this scenario. What the hell do I do? And I was quite lost in that, which is to be fair, is around that I found your podcast and I took Mac Offices and Therapy and this sort of thing. But um, yeah, the just that slight feeling of loss because I do what I know is work before. If something's worked before, I let's reuse it and stuff. And then I saw I was like, okay, I need to bond in a different way, and I now need to figure out what that is. And whilst that sounds very organized thinking in how I'm saying with it, that's not how I was having the conversation in my head at the time, you know. What were what were the conversations in your head? Oh, I think it was I'm fail, I've failed here, I don't, they don't get me, I don't get them. We can't be, we're not a family if this isn't working. All sorts of monologue in my brain around what can I do differently? Why don't they? What's wrong with them? Why can't my husband help out more? Even though if he was doing a great job. But I I think it was just a mess of this hadn't gone as I expected, my expectations hadn't been reached, and I was a bit of a lost soul in amongst it all, to be honest.

Katie South 20:42

And it's it doesn't make it any easier, but it's something that's so common with women who are independent, successful, have managed their own problems, have have learned throughout their lives. If I work really hard at something, I can get the result I want. If the first thing I try doesn't work, I'll try another strategy and I'll get there. And then suddenly you're in the situation and you've tried everything and it's not working. You're not getting what you want. And what I noticed when you were talking, and again, it's something that's so common, is you turn it back on yourself. Why don't they like me? What am I doing wrong? What's why am I failing at this? What isn't working when more often it's that this system of a stepfamily is so complicated and nobody teaches us how to navigate it. So it doesn't surprise me that you ended up in that situation of thinking, what am I doing wrong?

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yeah. It's just and that there isn't because even if you meet another step parent, their dynamics are different. It's not like the job description that with your job, you go and meet a community of people that do the same job and you can all discuss how, and there's a lot more similarities. It's not like that. So you're even with listening to the podcast, okay, that's cool, but actually, this bit's different. So I don't know if that would work. You have to really like, and I think that's it's a real dangerous overthinking area. career and that can that's really damaging for mental health and women we often overthink things anyway I think a lot of women do but uh the problem with that is that then I found you get into a funk and it takes longer to get out of it. So things like the when the kids left on a Sunday evening if it's not if it's not been a great weekend rather than being like cool now I've got my time back you're in this funk because you've overthought everything at the weekend like where it went wrong and you start picking at things and you know it's harder to see the good stuff because you're so busy lamenting the bad stuff that it's harder to get yourself out of that funk on a Sunday night or weekday night whenever it is and so yeah the spiraling thing is just it's not a happy it's not a it's certainly not a happy place to be and it's not a healthy or these days don't have to be you can't make good decisions and you you can't tell yourself that you're not to blame and it's not your fault when you're feeling crappy. But easier said than done to get into a better headspace.

Katie South 23:11

And a lot of the work I do on the back in control program we do one week specifically on stopping that spiral and noticing it and the techniques that you actually need to be able to stop it in yourself. Because as you say once you're in that bad place you find that your time is not only dominated by the negativity and the low mood when the kids are there but it carries on when they're not there because you can carry it into the week.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah and some of the help and this was where I think working with you has been helpful because some of the stuff out there that is so I think I tried things like well they're not my kids so why am I worrying so much? Like why that's not my responsibility that's not that and you know what that wasn't me. I can't not be involved some degree and that didn't help me. That didn't make me feel like because that was just shifting it. It didn't help me deal with it. Whereas mantras and things like we're all different and that's okay felt much more like I'd seen it, I've accepted it, I've processed it quite quickly and slightly let it go rather than just pushing it. And there was quite a shift and I noticed like that's when some of those techniques were much better for me to like there's no point ignoring it but I also didn't need to carry it all like you said what's what's yours to carry what's not yours to carry. I don't have to carry it all but I it for me it's important I acknowledge it and like I because if I don't and I ignore it and I choose not to be involved and I choose this that's not that's really far away from me my values you know what I want in a family and stuff. So I think it's finding that middle finding that place which is still you and that you don't lose you and the acceptance like an acceptance of like we're all different and that's okay is such a karma for me. It's a few words and I can't tell you how much it calms me like when things aren't quite when I disagree with whether it's my husband to be fair even in the work environment it's sometimes like it's it's it's applied everywhere. It just calms it.

Katie South 25:17

Yeah and I think that that for people listening that's something that we had worked on because when we started our work together one of the things that you were finding so hard was that these kids weren't responding to some of the things that you wanted to do or that you were suggesting or some of the values that you had around new experiences were so alien to them and that was bringing down some of your experiences. So actually instead of dancing around it or find it hard when there's a lot of people who say oh you've just got to reframe your mind because it almost teaches you then not to acknowledge your own feelings and actually it's okay for you to find that really difficult that they want to go on holiday and eat cheeseburgers for a week or whatever it might be. So acknowledging the real feeling you have about it is so important. And I was working with a a a woman earlier um in the week who was talking about some of the things that she's had to give up to become a step parent and she said I've never really talked about it before because I chose this life with him. So it doesn't feel right that I complain that I had to give up all these various things. Actually that's really important that you should talk about that. And like both things can be true. You can have chosen the man but still feel really sad that you've had to give up parts of your life to be in this family. So I just I don't like the sort of toxic positivity of just reframe everything because it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

No and that and I think the this is where if you've got sadness from previous things whether it's grief whether it's like giving up things whether it's there's that such a risk of resentment and I think I I had that near at the at the beginning like resentment that these kids which are nice enough kids just very different to me and it was quite you know in my space but where's the common ground and anything and there's a resentment as you brought them into my life and that's not healthy either that was not a thing but equally we had those conversations because if we hadn't it like in fact we had loads of those sort of conversations for many we still have those conversations but that all has to be shared and dealt with it can't be ignored I'm really pleased you brought up resentment because it's one of the things that I get asked about a lot because it's classed as like a negative selfish even stepmother emotion.

Katie South 27:44

I've never met a stepmother who hasn't felt it in one way or another but it sounds like you were talking about it as some resentment towards your husband as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yeah because I think I had the I probably have more resentment towards him than I did towards the kids because in my head I was like you can't blame kids for that. I can't blame kids for not being who I wanted them to be. I can't blame the kids for not behaving in what I think is a normal kid way or anything like that. But I can blame the parent. That was my sort of that was where my brain went and that ended up in me being on the outside it was the three of them and me because that was like a I'm pushing whilst you don't use the word resentment necessarily in the conversation with your partner that's essentially what it is it's like why aren't you doing anything to help this what can why have you let them become like this why why don't they want new experiences why are they blah blah blah why what did you not do as a parent to make them better and blah you know and actually it ended up I was critiquing his parenting that's how it felt to him and and then everything he was looking out for everything and I felt that he was he told me he was stepping on eggshells because he felt that I was judging every move he made in how he parented his kids and I I heard that back and I was like I don't want that to that's not how I meant it to be but I can totally understand why you've come out with that and and so we had to shift a lot and again it ebbs and flows I think there's a there's always a case where for the biological parent I'm like you could have done that differently but it just doesn't it's not such a big part of conversations anymore. And I don't I definitely don't hold any resentment because I can see how hard it is to parent kids. A lot of my friends are now parenting teenagers and I'm seeing a lot of similar issues. So I was just a bit there before them so I hadn't had I didn't have any like the general parenting learning and I can see how hard it is so now I have a lot more compassion and I don't hold resentment in the same way I did. I can't promise that it doesn't pop up every now and again but it's definitely not as big as it was in those early years.

Katie South 29:59

There'll be people listening who will be thinking I would love to have that conversation with my husband or my partner but how on earth would I get started without them going into full on defensive mode? Have you got any tips?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

My big my biggest tip is to be as emotive with it as possible and talk about the feelings and stuff rather than the the actions so it's more around or at least make sure you say both I didn't why didn't you tell them to do that? Why didn't you do this? It's very accusational rather than saying you could say why are you why didn't you do that? It made me feel like I was whatever. I think adding emotions definitely for a start it softens a conversation so it doesn't sound so accusational and it that's the crux of it. It's about how it makes you feel not what the act because actually the action sometimes will get will sometimes you'll be annoyed by sometimes something and something sometimes you won't.

Katie South 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

And I think admitting talking about the emotion and timings of things was I think the biggest is the biggest aid to having those conversations.

Katie South 31:08

Yeah I think something I always teach and try and use in my own life I call it fact feeling need. So you lead with the facts. Yesterday after dinner the kids just walked off and left their plates on the table then you go with the feeling that made me feel disrespected and like I'm supposed to pick up everyone else and then the need which would be can we make sure that we all clear the table together after a meal and as you say it it just takes out that accusatory you didn't teach your kids how to pick up after themselves or your kids are so lazy or your kids treat the place like a hotel and it's a much easier way of doing it. So fact feeling need if anyone needs something in their back pocket that is quite helpful and like you say the emotion softens things because you're saying I I feel like no one respects me or whatever it might be. Which can be really helpful. I also think sometimes it's really hard for the non-resident parent who's more often than not the dad to and I'm not letting them off the hook but sometimes it's hard for them to parent the kids in the way they want when they don't have as much time with them. And it's something I see with a lot of men who I work with one-on-one or even couples is that the dads will say I wish my kids were more like this but I only have the weekend and I can go so far with it but then if the other 80% of the time they're at mums where they don't where there aren't the same expectations or that it can be quite hard and I think there's not many men who admit it in public that they're maybe a little bit disappointed with how their kids turned out.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

And do you know what my husband has has can see some of that now because he's like and I feel for him because it's like well I haven't been in the family home for that many years and so how much influence has he had especially on the sort of younger one when he moved out of the family home when they were six and I think to expect them to cover that gap in every other weekend or an on a weeknight and stuff but I think if guys can actually acknowledge that and um it's brought us together by by him being able to say I'm disappointed that they're not more interested in experiences because it then allows the two of us to say these are the ones we're gonna push on like and then it made us it's made us feel more like a team so I guess if you can get your partner or your husband or whatever to dig into that hard feelings part that I know men struggle with sometimes and know what their fear is and know what they're proud of their kids or disappointed of their kids because all parents have that. They refuse to believe that not all parent loves 100% of all the things that their children do. Then it's a little bit of an area that you can probably join forces on and decide if it's one that you want to push on or not. Is it something that matters to both of you and work on it or not.

Katie South 34:04

And you're right because it's you've got to be a really you've got to be a man who's very comfortable with being vulnerable and admitting some of the things about your own kids that you don't love to somebody who doesn't have the same unconditional love as maybe you do. And you're right. I remember the other day one of my kids was doing something and I was thinking like it really winds me up that part of their personality but I think so many men feel that in things about their children that they're not particularly proud of or they don't particularly like it also brings up a lot of guilt for them because they think if they'd have been there even if they weren't the ones who left the relationship they think if they'd have been there they would have been there and been able to do it. And there's a lot of men who are walking round with stack loads of really complicated feelings and actually if if you can get to the place that you have with your husband where they can actually talk about it and like you say you can connect on it because you haven't got somebody who's sitting there going oh my kids are absolutely perfect they're wonderful you've got someone who's saying yeah I'm disappointed that they're not like this as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yeah. And you know what he was also it could work both ways because sometimes I could have been if I was feeling a bit in a thing I could be maybe too harsh and I think then he'd be he'd remind me when there was something good and a tiny thing the kid put the dishwasher stuff in the dishwasher without being arsed. So I did it that time so there's there was a there's a bit more of a partnership in that we don't always get the timings right whoever's or if we're both wound up we can both say that was a shitty Saturday wasn't it or that wasn't that Sunday was challenging and like the art of a debrief honestly is I think I thought again that we'd stew on it if we did that and there have been some Sundays where we've spoken for six hours and just gone round and crying and how do we make this work and all this sort of stuff and the complexity of it all. And then there's others where the debrief is five minutes and it was still a hard weekend but it was like okay we're so aligned it's the same thing we both noticed it cool do we do something do we not and then move on but I being able to have that level of conversation has been the game changer. I think I can't imagine what it's like having a husband or a partner that would be that would have blamed me for or said you're being too mean you're you you you're expecting too much from them and stuff I would have found that really hard. I don't know how I would have responded to that to be totally honest.

Katie South 36:40

And again it puts the blame right back on you when you're already carrying a lot of already blaming yourself.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Yeah.

Katie South 36:47

And I think some men they do believe that and I think other men it just it's just a like let's just pass that bag along so I don't have to unpack it myself.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah. And again especially when it's just a weekend or a weeknight you don't want to hash it out all weekend. You just want it to be and I think I've taken a learning on my side for that which is sometimes they don't want to pick up on everything that's gone wrong. They don't want to pick up on every behavior they don't want to parent 247 for a weekend because nine times out of 10 it's it's a that's wrong that's wrong. Why didn't you do it like this way? Why will you not answer me? Look up from your phone. All the naggy parent things they don't want to do it for a weekend. And I think at one point I was like that's your job you're a parent that's what you should do. But now I'm like do you know what if you don't have the energy that's fine I was like it can't always be the thing but like let's just ignore it for the afternoon. Let's just let's just let it rise above it. Let's pick our battles let's choose it for a more peaceful life and it at least now it doesn't feel like I'm like that before would have felt like I wasn't doing anything to change behaviour or to change the situation that we're in. Now it's this comfortable with being uncomfortable like which I've found a place where and again not all the time this is good weeks bad weeks but it's okay that we didn't handle that today. And I'm not going to dwell over it. I'm not gonna blame myself for it. I'm not gonna blame him for it. It just it's a day in a teenager's life who and it's a day and we move on.

Katie South 38:18

And some of it is about acceptance because as you say you wanted children in your life you had a view of what it would be like and you got there and suddenly it was so different. And actually there's a bit of relief in almost stopping trying to change it and accepting it. Obviously we're not talking you're not tolerating like abusive behaviour rude behavior from your stepkids that's obviously very different. But when you can get to the okay this isn't what I was hoping for but it's costing me so much more to try and change it than it would be to accept it.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

And I think ultimately it's more about me than it is about them. I could have sat here today and listed off all my issues with them and why they don't do this and like why we're so different but and but fundamentally people are they are who they are and yes some of the basics you tell them off for that's fine but I can't check they can't change me I can't change them and so nor should we want to and I think this is also the thing I don't I don't want them to change who they are. I just want to be more comfortable with how they are that's just because I hang out I'm used to louder kids very outer people in my life and things to then have the more introverted family now that I have it was a change and I think I I was too harsh to think that my way is the the best way my way is how life people should how people should experience life and how they should run their days and things and so there's definitely a again being uncomfortable being comfortable with being uncomfortable in their choices and actually starting to say good for you and I think that's where there's been a shift it's starting to appreciate their view of it and their take on things as a different way which I hadn't and I think that's where we'll go. I think that that's I hope what the next sort of period is where I learn more about why they think certain things are great so that I will then start to appreciate that which I hadn't been in my life before. And so that's my now my hope rather than a beautifully blended family of everyone being doing everything together and stuff learning about what drives them and what they do even if it's different to my preconceptions. And enjoying what you want to do without guilt exactly and I think that's the and I don't have guilt anymore. I used to have guilt if I took myself away to do something that I would want to do but actually I didn't get as much joy from it because again I was just removing myself from a situation. Removing yourself is not the answer to it. I don't think it's finding the best way to deal with it so that then you get to enjoy your stuff and you get to enjoy stuff or not with them either way but you can just be again you can just be you and not go crazy from overthinking.

Katie South 41:05

That's always a very good start. Lucy it's been so nice to talk to you today and I'm really grateful to you for giving up your time and being so honest. I get a lot of DMs that touch on many of the things we've spoken about today so I know that this conversation will be a real tonic for a lot of people so thank you very much. Thank you very much for having me on. It's been great Lucy said something near the end there that I keep coming back to. She said I don't want them to change who they are I just want to be more comfortable with how they are. And that's not about her being negative or giving up it's one of the hardest and most honest shifts you can make in this role from trying to change what you can't to finding a way to be yourself inside what actually exists. Lucy came into this with five rounds of IVF behind her, a picture in her head of what family life would look like and a genuine willingness to love someone else's children. And it was still really hard. Not because she was doing it wrong but because nobody told her what she was actually walking into. Nobody tells any of us. That's why this podcast exists and if today's episode helped share it with someone who needs to hear it. If this episode resonated I've made a free guide called the Influence Gap. It's for stepmoms who can't stop thinking about things they can't change. You can get it free at stepmomspace.comslash influencegap. The link is in the show notes. I'll be back with another new episode next week. Till then take care