Carrie Gillon: Hi, and welcome to the Vocal Fries Podcast, the podcast about linguistic discrimination.
Megan Figueroa: I'm Megan Figueroa.
Carrie: I'm Carrie Gillon.
Megan: Well, we're both here. We haven't melted.
Carrie: Well, no.
Megan: If anyone's concerned about us here in the desert.
Carrie: It's slightly cooler than it was. It's still too hot.
Megan: Yeah. Actually, in Tucson yesterday, it was the first time that the high temperature was under 80 since May 23rd or something like that.
Carrie: Wow.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: I don't think we got that low.
Megan: Yeah. No. It was raining all day yesterday. It was lovely. I was like, of course, like I have these really cute rain boots. The only time I get to wear them is if it's monsooning. I look ridiculous half the time. I'm like, "Maybe it'll rain." But yesterday, you actually needed rain boots in the desert.
Carrie: Nice. Yeah. I'm always jealous because we have barely gotten any rain this summer. We've had a few storms. In one of the first storms, there was rain technically, but it didn't hit the ground.
Megan: Strange.
Carrie: Because that's how hot it was.
Megan: It evaporated before it got to the ground.
Carrie: Yes.
Megan: Wow.
Carrie: Yeah. It's been very strange. We've had some monsoons. It's not a non-soon season [inaudible].
Megan: Are people saying that? Okay.
Carrie: Yeah. In 2011, remember that huge dust storm that rolled in?
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: That year, people called it non-soon because there were no monsoons.
Or very few, I guess.
Megan: I remember that, Haboob. It was yesterday.
Carrie: It was massive.
Megan: Yeah. It was something to live through. My allergies still hurt.
Carrie: Yeah. The next day, I went to a restaurant with a friend and we sat outside and I was like, my nose was itching like crazy. It wasn't until halfway through, I was like, "It's because of the dust storm yesterday. This was a bad idea. Why didn't we sit inside?" We sat outside because it was actually cool enough. That's why.
Megan: Yeah. The asphalt was just a very thin layer of dirt. Everything had a thin layer of dirt.
Carrie: Yeah. A fine layer of orange everywhere.
Megan: Yep.
Carrie: Living in the desert is weird.
Megan: Living in the desert is weird. I hope everyone else is having a better summer, weather-wise.
Carrie: Yeah. I mean...
Megan: I don't think so. I mean, the [inaudible] in the US doesn't look good. It's pretty hot and disgusting.
Carrie: Yeah. Alaska lost all of its sea- or not just Alaska, the Arctic, I think, lost all of its sea ice. Like, all of it.
Megan: Oh, my God.
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: We're going to dark territory here, Carrie.
Carrie: I know. To bring this to linguistics, I did see someone posted something like the Arctic ice has completely melted. Someone complained about the use of completely because they were like, "Well, it will come back in the winter," which it's true, it will. Right now it is completely melted. It was a strange interpretation of the word completely. Like, completely to them also meant forever.
Megan: Like extinct ice or something?
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: It was like, "That is strange. I-" No. I mean, when something's complete, it doesn't mean that it can't happen again. Like, you can complete, I don't know, a workout or whatever.
Carrie: You complete a jump...Yeah.
Megan: Then you can go work out again. I don't know [inaudible].
Carrie: Exactly. No.
Megan: I don't know. That's interesting.
Carrie: Or you like, you got completely dressed. Doesn't mean you're dressed forever.
Megan: That's true. Yeah.
Carrie: Anyway.
Megan: Unless you're Tobias in Arrested Development.
Carrie: Well, even he is not completely dressed, he's just never completely undressed.
Megan: I know.
Carrie: By the way, when I was in high school, I had a friend who claimed that he never was completely nude. I knew he was kidding. But we would always just ask him, like, casting questions. "Well, what about in the shower?" Basically, he claimed to be a never-nude before that word.
Megan: Before that was a thing. Before Arrested Development made it a thing.
Wow.
Man: Stop booing. There's nothing wrong with it. There are dozens of us. Dozens!
Megan: Representation.
Carrie: Pretty sure he was kidding, though.
Megan: Yeah. You can't trust high schoolers.
Carrie: Shout out to Jason.
Megan: We have another shout-out because of Patreon.
Carrie: Yes. We want to thank Mimi Everett for supporting our show.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: Once again, if you want to support our show on patreon.com/vocal fries pod, that would be most welcome because we are an independent podcast, and any little tiny bit helps.
Megan: It really does. Tell your friends about us or, I know that we have so many lovely people that take time out of their day to interact with us. It would also be great to do an Apple iTunes review. If you-
Carrie: Or whatever you listen to, there are multiple ways to review.
Megan: There are other ways to review. Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah. Whatever is your favorite way. I mean, Apple's the biggest.
Megan: Yeah. I mean, I don't mean to give Apple even more of a monopoly than it has. I don't think I don't have that power.
Carrie: No. It just exists as it is right now.
Megan: Yeah. Anyway, we're thankful for you all.
Carrie: Well, speaking of that... Yeah.
Megan: [inaudible] a letter you told me that we had.
Carrie: An email from Alice.
Megan: An email. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it was an actual letter with a stamp on it.
Carrie: Yeah. This sounds a little too formal.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah. Just wondering if you have a place for folks to talk about your work. You asked for responses from your latest podcast, specifically with some questions about sign language interpretation and the difficulties in getting sign language interpreters for asylum seekers, migrants, or other deaf people visiting from countries that have few interpreters. I had the sense that you have a community that discussed your podcast online, continuing the exploration of your ideas. Where is that to be found? I responded, just in case anyone else is curious, mostly it seems like the biggest sort of most interactive community is on Twitter, and we're at vocalfries[od on Twitter.
Megan: Yeah. I actually retweeted a thread, a lovely thread that someone had posted about some resources, how we could help asylum seekers and immigrants with interpretations, with legal services and stuff. I will re-up that as well. We can put it on the blog post on our website too. Yeah.
Carrie: Right. Yeah. We do have a website, VocalFriesPod.com. We're also on Tumblr, the same, I think it's tumblr.com/VocalFriesPod. Like everything's VocalFriesPod.
Megan: Yes.
Carrie: But also we do have a Facebook group that is small, and I'm happy to come converse with people there if you want to join us.
Megan: Yeah. I am not on Facebook as much because the algorithm has messed it up so much that I just see things that make me angry. Yeah. I'm mostly on Twitter. Although you are much better at switching over to the VocalFriesPod Twitter than I am. I often interact with people under my own. Yeah.
Carrie: Well, that's okay. I mean, you should go back and forth, but it's okay.
Megan: Yeah. Anyway, I tweeted, I asked if people could tell the difference between us when it's on Twitter. I think it's obvious, but how could it be obvious to other people?
Carrie: You're more likely to use an emoji.
Megan: God, ain't that the truth? [inaudible].
Carrie: I'm more of a GIF person myself, so.
Megan: I mean, emojis are just, yeah. What can I say? But I realize that some people still can't tell the difference between our voices.
Carrie: No. I know.
Megan: I wonder if it's just a phenomenon of having two women.
Carrie: It could be. That's my intuition, is that as soon as you have more than one woman, you can't tell them apart until you listen long enough.
Megan: Yeah. I did the same thing with My Favorite Murder. It took me a while, and I feel like I'm really in tune with trying to figure out whose voice is whose.
Carrie: Yeah. But there are some men I can't tell apart. I don't want to be like a blanket statement, but I do think that in general, we're just not as used to listening to women's voices.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: That's all right.
Megan: Yeah. No. It's true. It's fine. If you like to listen to our women's voices, make sure to join us at patreon.com//VocalFriesPod. One more thing before I get to the guest. On Twitter yesterday, so Bryn Hauk retweeted, so the original tweet is this. The least political book in the English language is, you guessed it, the dictionary.
Carrie: But context, it's [inaudible]. It's at drill.
Megan: Do you know who that person is?
Carrie: I thought you knew.
Megan: No. I just...
Carrie: Okay. He is like a super...Well, I shouldn't say nobody knows who he is. He's been outed, but we all pretend that we don't know who he is. He just posts ridiculous things all the time that are like very perfect for the political moment often. Like sometimes you'll go back like seven years and there's this, the perfect tweet for what's going on.
Megan: Is he a troll?
Carrie: He's like a shit poster. He's not a troll.
Megan: Shit poster. Okay. He knows what he's doing when he tweeted this.
Carrie: Yes. It's a joke. That's why, like...
Megan: I have no idea who this person is. Wow. You know something more on Twitter than I do.
Carrie: Well, I think my knowledge of Twitter is a different subset than yours.
Megan: Wow. This person has 1.4 million followers. No. I have no idea [inaudible].
Carrie: Including me. Yeah. [inaudible]
Megan: Okay. Well, I said, I think Bryn might know this because I think she's like just calling out linguists who would actually believe this. I'm guessing now. I have no idea. Linguists who think that just doing science and sticking to, "the facts," absolve them of the moral responsibility to consider the impacts their work will have on vulnerable people; then the original tweet. But this is a really big problem in our field. Like whether or not she was just making a point of knowing it was a shit post or whatever. It's a really good point. If we're talking about just like the dictionary, which is just like a way to bring or to talk about a certain point or a certain bad point of linguistics.
The dictionary is so political.
Carrie: Yeah. There was a recent conversation about, so there were some, mostly women, I believe, who asked the dictionary to take out some of the bad synonyms for women. There was a lot of pushback with some of the lexicographers, not all of them because they were like, "Well, this is reflecting what's going on in the speech community," which is true.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: Maybe there's a way of downplaying the worst parts. Anyway, I think that what the decision may be is that it gets pushed further down on the page.
Megan: Okay.
Carrie: Lexicographers can correct me if I'm wrong.
Megan: Well, we have a great interview with lexicographer Jane Solomon, who has the most amazing dictionary out for children and adults alike. Listen to that episode if you haven't.
Carrie: We explicitly talk about the politics of her choices. It was really great.
Megan: Yes. It was really great. I even asked her like, kind of like because I'm always trying to get people to talk about, like, who's missing from the table.
I'm like, "Who's making these decisions?" Right?
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: She said that it's a very white field.
Carrie: Yes, it is.
Megan: Just think about all those people that are being erased, not like, consciously. I mean, sometimes consciously, some people are bad people. But a lot of things are happening, because you can't even think to ask these questions or to include these words because you're not part of that community.
Carrie: Yeah. It's not your speech community. You don't reflect it.
Megan: Yeah. That's a really big thing in the field right now. The dictionary is just one example of it. But linguistics has that problem, like, generally.
Carrie: Yes.
Megan: But yeah, no. I really appreciated that tweet, just because this is something I'm often thinking about. The "facts" as Bryn stated. Facts are different for different people. I mean, that's just the truth of it. We think science is objective. But we're people, and we do science. We bring shit to the table.
Carrie: Right. Like, sure, maybe you can make some claim that science in the abstract is objective. I don't know how that works exactly because science is done by humans. Yeah.
Megan: Yeah. This is artificial intelligence as well. Very relevant. We have a couple of episodes on that, too.
Carrie: Oh, God. Yeah.
Megan: Yeah. Seems to be getting worse. Seems to be getting more racist and sexist. Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah. I don't think that's going to go away, because nobody seems to be, like, even consider... Well, I shouldn't say nobody. Not enough people who have enough power are considering these issues.
Megan: No. Yeah. Ableist, that's another...
Carrie: One hundred percent.
Megan: Yes. That's very relevant in the artificial intelligence world. It's not important because they're talking about it. It's important because they're not talking about it, or not thinking about these things.
Carrie: Right.
Megan: Yeah. But anyway, so. Here we are.
Carrie: Anyway, let's switch gears completely.
Megan: All completely.
Carrie: Because this episode is about acting. It's very different from what we normally talk about, but it was such a fun conversation.
Megan: Yeah, maybe it'll be a nice break. Because the world is trash.
Carrie: On fire.
Megan: Yes.
Carrie: I mean, the literal Arctic is on fire.
Megan: Yep. The world is scary, but our guest was lovely and had some lovely views about life. Which, what is acting if not [inaudible]? Just a way to, I don't know, an analogy for life.
Carrie: Yes. Today we talk with Duane Daniels, who some of you may know from Veronica Mars.
Megan: Yeah. Enjoy.
Carrie: Enjoy.
Megan: Today, we have a guest who is very different from all the other guests that we've ever had.
Carrie: It's true.
Megan: We have Duane Daniels, who's an actor, both stage, TV, and film. But he's best known for his role in Veronica Mars as Vice Principal, then Principal Van Clements.
Duane Daniels: [inaudible]
Megan: Also a director and producer. Founded the Fritz Theater in San Diego and he was just in Stray Cat Theater's production of Let the Right One In, which I saw and I loved, as Hakan. He's also an acting coach for Actors Workhouse in Phoenix and the Barrage Program in France. A current Arizona winner for Actor in a Major Role for EAR, which I've never heard of before. Been nominated for the LA Critics Association, LA Weekly, and Garland Awards. Welcome, Duane.
Duane: Wow. Thank you for that lovely introduction. That was nice. Who is this guy?
Carrie: I know.
Megan: It's always weird to hear you being read to you.
Duane: Yeah. I did some stuff when I was 14, you missed it.
Megan: Darn it. I thought I did enough research.
Duane: That was pretty impressive. Thank you. That was really nice.
Carrie: Well, you didn't even say the one, the new factoid. Was it? The...
Megan: Yes. Well, okay. While I was doing research, I discovered, according to your IMDb page, that you also used to be in an opera.
Duane: That's correct. Yeah. I was an opera singer for a while.
Megan: Wow. Cool.
Duane: Yeah. I've always been a singer person and opera was just one of the styles that I was involved in for a period of time. I still sing, but not opera.
Megan: Right.
Duane: Yeah. Opera is too stressful.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: [inaudible] stressful.
Duane: It's really stressful. Yeah. I thought it was too stressful. I think singing in general is stressful or can be, certainly. I like to do it for fun more than for... The stress is really high on opera.
Megan: You mean physically?
Carrie: Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. Physically, there's a lot going on. But the mental aspect of things, because I grew up mostly as an actor and a lot of singing too. But when you're acting, there are no wrong notes.
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: But when you're singing, there are wrong notes. If you're supposed to sing a C and you sing a B flat, everybody says, that was terrible. But when you're acting and you want to sing a C and you sing a B flat...
Megan: It might work better.
Duane: It might work. Yeah. Totally. I like the freedom that comes along. There's stress with having to sing because everybody has an expectation of what the notes are supposed to be. In acting, you can do it your way. There isn't the stress of matching expectations. Yeah.
Megan: Yeah. Emotional and physical stress.
Duane: Yeah. Exactly. Opera was pretty stressful, I felt.
Megan: You did that in the States or in France?
Duane: Yeah. I sang with the San Diego Opera for a couple of seasons. Then back in the day, I was also a classical singer. I sang with the Cleveland Orchestra a long time ago. Yeah.
Carrie: Wow.
Megan: Is that where you're from, Cleveland?
Duane: Yeah.
Megan: I cannot help but think of the 30 Rock episode where they go to Cleveland.
Carrie: Yeah.[inaudible].
Megan: What is that big line about?
Duane: Hot spots got the hippest groove.
Woman: Cleveland.
Duane: Where all the real gone daddies move?
Woman: Cleveland.
Duane: Dig that sweet Cuyahoga glow.
Woman 2: It smells so good.
Duane: Cleveland. That's why I left there at like 16 and a half.
Megan: Right.
Duane: Like as soon as I got out [inaudible].
Carrie: Because [inaudible].
Duane: Yeah. Exactly. No. Actually, of course, a great place to be a kid, but came out west.
Megan: We mostly want to ask you about your coaching, your acting coaching. But since you're here, what was it like being on Veronica Mars?
Duane: It was really great. I'm very grateful. If you get picked to be in a TV show, it's like, it's awesome if it ends up being a great show. It's just that you just get lucky like that. Because I could have just as well been in some show that was terrible. You know what I mean? It just so happened that I got really lucky the show I was in was really fantastic. It was great. It was all the things. It was a couple of years involved there. It's like sometimes you're a little tired today or there's stuff going on or whatever. But really, ultimately, it was a great working environment. The people are fantastic. With Kristen at the top of the pyramid and Rob Thomas, who created the show, they both happen to be really warm, loving people. They don't have to fake that or whatever. Then everybody that they bring on board is like that too. The cast is really warm and loving. All the guest stars that come in go. I loved working on that show. Because just like the atmosphere on set and the crew and the cast and everybody involved is just really a great place to work. I'm super grateful that I got to be a small part of that great show.
Megan: I've heard many good things about Kristen Bell in particular. She's on The Good Place now. Then there's a Good Place podcast that goes with the show. Everyone who talks about her on that show loves her.
Duane: Yeah. She's really uniquely like warm and funny. There's just a lot of warmth there. It's something that I think that's the quality that made her become what she is today. Well-known and so popular. It's because that stuff is really genuine from her. She's a really warm, beautiful person. She doesn't have to fake that. It just comes out. I think the best actors are really the best people and Kristen is a great person.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah. It's funny seeing her play an asshole on The Good Place.
Megan: I know. An Arizona asshole too.
Carrie: Yeah. An Arizona asshole.
Duane: Yeah. That's right.
Carrie: Yeah.
Duane: She's really a lovely, warm human being. I'm very excited for all of her successes and that we're pals.
Carrie: Yeah. That's awesome. It's not a given that people are nice in LDuane: Not a given in the acting industry, I'm guessing.
Duane: Yeah. I guess not. But I have to say that because I've been hanging around that scene for a while. I've run across a lot of people who are A-listers and whatever and pretty much everybody, there's one or two in my head right now. I'm kind of going, not so much. But really, pretty much absolutely everybody is a lovely person. I don't think you really get there without something underneath it. To me, I feel acting is really a study of compassion. Because we're walking miles in other people's shoes. You do that for a lifetime. You begin to really understand people. You communicate well. You can kind of read people and body language. You get very sensitive to what people are about. I think that's just a natural byproduct of being an actor at all. The people that I've met have all been really pretty wonderful human beings.
Megan: That's great. Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. It's really, you hear a lot of stuff. But I think people just like to say stuff.
Carrie: People like to talk.
Duane: People like to say stuff. They like to have some outrageous things they can say. But everybody that I've run across has been really great, with the exception of one or two people.
Carrie: Right.
Duane: Yeah. It's been one or two.
Megan: Yeah. When you were talking about actors having to walk in people's shoes, you become more compassionate as a result. I think it was Matt Smith, one of the Doctor Who's, who was talking about how the only character that he couldn't figure out at all was Charles Manson.
Duane: Wow.
Carrie: Wow. Which you do not want to be able to understand, probably.
Duane: Right. It's probably best that we don't. Yeah. That's interesting.
Megan: That is interesting. Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. By the way, this is a great segue, because I'm talking a lot of the stuff I'm saying right now is from my book.
Carrie: That's fantastic. Yeah.
Duane: That is being published as we speak. It'll be available in a few hours or whatever.
Megan: Wow. That's exciting.
Duane: Did you not know that? Yeah, [inaudible].
Megan: Not that it was going to be now.
Duane: Yeah. Not that it was going to be now. But it's the Kindle one that's already up. The paperback one will be up in a few hours, I think.
Megan: Yeah. Wow.
Carrie: What's the name of the book?
Duane: It's called, You're Not Really Hamlet. Everybody knows it.
Megan: You're breaking so [inaudible].
Duane: You think so?
Megan: But you're going to uplift them after, I guess.
Duane: In a sense, I know it sounds pretty jaded, but it's actually, maybe it a reality check because the point of view of the book is that we can spend our time trying to become our characters, or we can really understand what is actually happening, which is you're playing the character. Instead of being magic, it's a magic trick. We want to become good magicians. We can't be fooled by the magic. Let the audience be fooled by the magic.
Carrie: Got it. Yeah. Right.
Duane: You have to understand you're a magician. The magician knows that there's a rabbit in the hat. He's not surprised. We have to be good magicians, not get fooled by our tricks.
Megan: Right.
Carrie: Yeah. That makes sense.
Duane: That's something that is the point of view of the book. But it is ultimately very uplifting.
Megan: Yeah. That is nice the way that you phrased it. Because now, I'm thinking of how just being a human, I'm not an actor. I can never be perfect. Trying to be perfect is just a useless endeavor.
Duane: One hundred percent.
Megan: If you can't ever be Hamlet...
Duane: Exactly.
Carrie: Yeah.
Duane: Let's stop trying to be Hamlet. Let's understand what the actual process is, is I'm going to play Hamlet. How do I do that powerfully? What's my relationship to me right now, to me playing the role? Get a real actual understanding of what that is, as opposed to going, "I'm Hamlet" because you're not. No one's ever been Hamlet. Not one time. Not even once. We can all keep trying, or we can instead kind of look at the actual process. How are we going to play the role and be powerful in that process? Because that's what's really happening.
Carrie: This is kind of like anti-method acting.
Duane: Well, I think people might look at it like that. I know that different things work for different people. There are even times, like the role that you just now mentioned, that I played recently, I used kind of method in that particular role.
Megan: In EAR, right?
Carrie: No. In Let the Right One In.
Duane: No. Let the Right One In.
Megan: Okay.
Duane: I was doing a little method stuff because I keep on coaching kind of away from method. But then I was being method-ish when I was playing this role. I just felt like this role required that kind of investment.
Carrie: Interesting.
Duane: But for the most part, I think this process that I'm talking about is kind of the working man's everyday actor. We're striving for the greatest work. But we understand what it is to succeed is not what we thought it was. We're trying to embrace that.
Megan: Well, how could we keep having all of these productions of Hamlet if the individual actors that are acting don't bring something special and unique to it?
Duane: Yeah. Great. Right.
Megan: Like, why would we keep watching these things? It makes sense that...Yeah.
Duane: Right. Yeah. Terrific. If Hamlet was really there, he wouldn't know his lines or his blocking.
Megan: I never thought of it that way. Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. We don't need Hamlet. We need you to play Hamlet because you went to rehearsal. Hamlet didn't. We need the guy who was at rehearsal and that's you.
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: Yeah. Why did you feel like you needed to use more method techniques for Hakan? Yeah.
Duane: In this role? I didn't want to go out on stage and be surprised by what state of mind I was going for. I didn't want to, like oftentimes, I'll just kind of be in the green room or doing whatever and then like they'll say places and I'll kind of walk to the stage and they say go and I walk out there and I'm all good. But in this one, I just really felt a responsibility to create and bring with me because I'm one of the first entrances of the play. I wanted to bring with me the mood of the piece and I wanted to walk out there already having that mood and already having that reality. I didn't want to go out there and start creating it then. I think largely it was because I was one of the first things to happen in the play and I really wanted to help set the time, place, and feel of the show and I felt a responsibility like that was something I was going to try to bring on stage with me. I needed to spend some time in the wings making sure that I was already there so that when I walked on stage, I had it to bring with me as opposed to creating it once I got out there. That's something that, and every show is different. Every role is different. Every actor is different. There's no one way to do it. I don't really think I'm anti-method because if it works, use it. But there are other ways to approach that can be more empowering to my way of thinking. We don't have to plunge ourselves into depths of despair.
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: Do you know what I mean? Because like actors-
Megan: Yeah. [inaudible], the terrible example of Heath Ledger.
Duane: Yeah. Exactly. All that stuff. It's like the actors are known for like, because...and they work themselves. I don't know Heath Ledger's story particularly, but actors are prone to morbidity in their approach to their art.
In my book, I'm asking us to choose love instead.
Carrie: That's nice.
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: We can cry because of grief and we can cry because of beauty And let's cry because of beauty.
Carrie: Yeah. That's good for life too. I feel like I'm in therapy right now.
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. Kind of. I mean, it's a very Zen book. It's kind of got, I think it's going to appeal to more people than just actors because a lot of people talk about some of the theories that we talk about. They're like, "That's going to help me at work. Or that's going to help me make a presentation." I work with doctors and they're like, "That's going to help me talk to patients." Do you know what I mean?
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: There's a lot to be gained from kind of a shift in our thinking and relationship to our task. That's kind of where my book tries to help us like a kind of breakthrough from what we thought we were trying to do. Instead, let's really do something else and get a grasp on how to do it. Again, it's not magic, it's a magic trick. How do you perform this magic trick? We learn a bunch of techniques that help us become good magicians. Understand again that we don't believe in magic, but we perform it.
Carrie: That's really cool. Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. I'm excited. That's called You're Not Really Hamlet and everybody knows it. It'll be available later today or something. By the time anybody hears this.
Carrie: Yeah. Absolutely.
Duane: Yeah.
Megan: Then, I mean, it might seem like an obvious question, but then does an acting coach, what does an acting coach do? Do they teach the tricks?
Duane: Yeah. I think so. I have something in my philosophy called the answer to every question, yeah? It's one answer to every question an actor would have. The answer to every question an actor would have is whatever will serve the audience's experience. My point of view on acting is audience-centric. That other kind of acting we're talking about is actor-centric.
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: This here is really like the book kind of bridges the gap between actor and director because you're kind of going, "Well, I'm an actor, but how do I direct myself?" What does a director do? But they put the show together so that it's a package, it's a gift for the audience. We can take that on in our own work as well. As a coach, it's whatever will serve the audience's experience is what I'm going to have us try to do. That might be technical things like diction or projection, or that could be physical things like nervous habits or something. That's also like, how do we interpret the material in order to tell the powerful story? The one that gets the audience's belly. Yeah. We're looking for ways to create that dynamism. The book's got a lot of ways like actual understanding of opposing ideas creates dynamism and all those types of things. There are many things that we talk about, but there's always something to talk about when the sessions with actors.
Carrie: That's really cool. Reminds me of the writing process as well. You have to think about your audience when you're writing.
Duane: Yeah. I think a lot of actors and are going to, are thinking it's about them. I really try to turn that and make us understand that every producer knows it's about the audience and the producers are the ones who hire. Let's try to learn what the producers know and not worry about our experience. Because you know, a lot of times actors will really feel something, but that doesn't mean the audience is having the experience.
Carrie: That's true.
Duane: It doesn't really matter what, what matters is your audience. We put them at the center of our universe, which is what directors do. Now as actors, we can learn what directors know and how to, how to like hand our performance over to the audience as a gift.
Carrie: Wow. That's really cool.
Duane: Yeah. Thanks. I'm really having fun and excited about the process with the book and all the coaching and whatever.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: Does then the fact that you're a singer help with this? Do you feel the same way about singing? This is your gift to an audience like you need an audience response kind of [inaudible]
Duane: Yeah. From a singing perspective whatever serves the audience's experience is what I'm after. But oftentimes, because we talked about like the...Am I allowed to swear or anything?
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. We talked about kind of the mind fuck of singing cause it is a mind fuck. Do you know what I mean? Oftentimes, you kind of have to turn that on its head because it's like, if I go at this process with a certain kind of expectation, I'm going to be intimidated in relationship to the task, which is to sing for a room full of people or whatever. That's a scary thing for anybody.
Sometimes, we have to turn that on its head, and kind of in that case, it's like in order to protect myself emotionally and mentally, "I'm not going to sing for them. I'm going to sing for me." Do you know what I mean?
Carrie: Yeah. Absolutely.
Duane: Because if I worry about whether they like it or not. It's like, there's a game that we have to play. There's a balance always. We can't pander to our audience, but we definitely have to make sure that they have a positive experience. Singing is, again, it's a bit of a mind fuck more than acting is, but singing actually is, there's a rehearsal process. There's a physical process to it. Once you've done stuff enough times, you know where the placement is, you know how to achieve a certain sound because you've done it. But it's when you don't know how to do it that it's risky, whether you'll succeed or not. But once you've really got things figured out, you understand the placement and the support and all that, then it's like, it's okay. You know how to do it, how to manipulate your body to create the sounds.
Carrie: You were telling me a few weeks ago about how most people don't think that they can sing, but most people actually can sing, which I did not know. [inaudible]. That's really cool.
Duane: Yeah. This is a really important aspect to me is I think it's part of our cultural whatever here in the United States that like only like like Beyonce can sing and like I don't know who else, Christina Aguilera, so she can sing. There's like two, you know what I mean? There's like, maybe there's five or six or 10. Those are the people who can sing and the rest of us can't. I was lucky enough to get to go to Dublin and do a show there. I was there for like nine months, like a couple of years ago. It was great. I had a blast. One of the things I liked the most was that you go to a pub and everyone sings and everyone gets in front of the room and starts singing out some song, you know what I mean? It doesn't matter. No one cares who's good. No one's trying to be the next teen idol or whatever.
Carrie: Right.
Duane: That isn't what it's about. They sing for joy and for love and for beauty.
Megan: Yeah. It's part of so many, like you think of folktale, like everything, like singing is at the heart of a lot of things, a lot of storytelling.
Duane: Yeah. Exactly. It's so great to see people who are just not self-conscious about it, but just invest in it, and raise their voices. That is really great. Taking that back because I do a lot of coaching with actors and I coach singing as well. A lot, so often it's just crazy. Like so often I'll meet an actor and I'll kind of say, "Well, I'll get to know them a little bit." I'll say, "Do you sing?" They go, "No. I don't sing." I'm like, "Really? Why not?" "I just can't sing." Almost every single time, like literally almost every single time I've ever run across that, I say, if I can get them to sing, they can sing. People can sing. It is true that 5% of people are tone-deaf. One person in 20 is tone-deaf. That person will not ever be able to learn to sing on pitch or whatever. But the other 19 out of 20, that other 95% all of us can sing. Now it's a matter of practice.
Megan: My boyfriend says he sings and he says this to me, he's like, "You can learn how to sing." I'm like, "No. Have you heard me?" This learn a thing from being in this culture. There are a lot of people afraid to do karaoke because they're like, people are going to judge me. It's not like in Dublin. I have the same thing where I pretend I can't like, I'd get really measly, just like, I might as well be annoying or embarrassing since I can't sing. Yeah.
Duane: Ninety-five percent of us can sing. Obviously, the first time we try is going to be maybe like our worst time. The second time we'll get a little better. The third time we get a little better. A lot of times we'll try it that once and kind of go, I'm no good at this. Well, you wouldn't be able to hit a baseball the first time you swing that either. Do you know what I mean?
Megan: Exactly. Yeah.
Duane: You got to practice these things. No one's going to hand it to you. But if we're willing to try to do that, then yeah, 95% of us can sing. It's so often I see, and I'm kind of like, "Let me hear you sing." People open up and they can all sing. They can all sing well. People have really good ears and they sing in the kitchen anyway. They sing in the shower. It's like, "Well, you don't know it, but you could sing in front of people." It's a huge fear obviously that people have. There've been times I've been able to not even be able to get a student to open their mouth. Not because they're not willing, but because they're afraid.
Carrie: I actually had some singing training when I was in elementary school.
Duane: Okay. Nice. Well, let's hear something.
Megan: [inaudible]. Yeah.
Carrie: No.
Duane: Just a little ditty would be nice. Yeah.
Carrie: Do you have a ditty in mind?
Duane: Yeah.
Carrie: I'm bad at this stuff. Let's see. I just watched Rocket Man. Surely there's a song for [inaudible].
Megan: What about Rocket Man?
Carrie: I don't know if I know Rocket Man.
Megan: [inaudible].
Carrie: Just sing the word Rocket Man and then you know it.
Megan: Yeah. [inaudible].
Duane: Anyway. Cool. That's okay.
Carie: But yeah, I at least learned a little bit. Yeah. It was kind of fun.
Duane: Yeah. Singing, I think, is really freeing for people.
Megan: I love singing.
Duane: Here's the thing. Everybody when they were a kid, their older brother or their dad said, "You sing terribly." You know what I mean? You're in the backseat of the car and you're singing away. Then your older brother covers his ears with his hands and goes, "You're a terrible singer." Then people spend the rest of their lives thinking that's true. That is something that I think is really a crime.
Carrie: Yeah. I agree.
Duane: Yeah. I'm all for letting people raise their voices and then as good as you are today, tomorrow you'll be better. That's all that matters.
Megan: In most things in life, practice helps you a lot.
Duane: Yeah. We need some experience. You can't buy experience. You can't cheat on experience. You have to earn that. But experience always helps us improve.
Megan: I think so many of us are so willing to leave the idea that people who are good actors or good singers have been doing it since they were this tall and just naturally did it and gravitated towards it. But it's like, we don't know...I'm sure something in their environment made them gravitate towards it. It's not like all of us low people down here didn't have the opportunity. Maybe the culture wasn't there or maybe it wasn't encouraged in some way.
Duane: Yeah. Exactly. Often I see people now as students who come in older, whatever, and they never did it. They always wanted to or they were in a play in second grade or whatever and they took 40 years off and now they want to try it again. That's all good. Acting is just being a human being in front of people. We all are qualified. Everybody's qualified.
Carrie: Yeah. There's a part of me that kind of wishes I'd gone into acting.
Duane: Well, let's do it.
Megan: [inaudible]. You have an acting coach right here for you.
Carrie: I know.
Duane: I'm right here. I'm already on the clock.
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: All right. I wonder how many people come to you later in life who are like, I've been afraid of public speaking my whole life or all these things. Now, I'm finally kind of getting over it because I know that it's just kind of like, fuck it. You only live once kind of thing. Do you get that a lot?
Duane: Yes. I do. I had people like real estate people have to talk to potential buyers like anybody public speaking at all.
Carrie: [inaudible].
Duane: Yeah. For instance. Sure. People fear public speaking. There's some studies suggest they fear it more than death.
Megan: Yes. I've seen that. Slow death. That's why.
Duane: Yeah.
Carrie: [inaudible] in front of everyone.
Megan: [inaudible]
Duane: Yeah. There's a lot to overcome there. But one of the things I talk about in my book is like the fight or flight impulse because when we're nervous and our voice quivers and our hand shakes a little bit and we get a little some our heartbeats and we get some sweat on our forehead, that's our flight impulse. We can turn that same energy into a fight. Suddenly everything changes. Our body's not saying run because that's what the flight impulse is telling us is trying to get you to run away. But once we say, "No. I'm not running. I'm here to fight." The same adrenaline now shifts into a more productive aspect for us. We are now we're ready to meet the challenge. That's part of the game there is to switch that flight reflex reflex over to the fight reflex. We can make that decision anytime we're in front of an audience.
Megan: That also reminds me, I mean, I always heard mind over matter and thought it was just one of these cliches that people say to make you feel better or to make you ignore something. But like learning how much all we know about like neuroscience now and even therapy methods. It's like you can change the way you think about the situation. All of a sudden, you can feel better in that situation. You can use that nervous energy for good.
Duane: Definitely.
Carrie: [inaudible], you know?
Duane: It's just we can find an empowered approach to whatever the task is, whether it's like being in front of an audience or having to make a presentation or whatever those things are, a sales pitch. We can find an empowered approach to that if we just kind of realign our thinking and how we're thinking about the task at hand. I've got a phrase I use called, of course, which is like, "Of course, there's an audience" as opposed to, "Oh my God, there's an audience." We just change that little bit of thinking. Of course, there's an audience. Of course, there's applause. Of course, a critic is here watching my performance. Of course, this is a big audition. Of course, we're really just...It's just a matter of just shifting our thinking a little bit and we can find a much more empowered approach to whatever it is that we're that we have in front of us.
Carrie: Let's talk about voice a little. Do you ever focus on a voice when you're doing acting coaching and if so, how?
Duane: Yeah. Well, it often comes up that breathing is an issue for actors because they're not breathing using kind of their entire carriage. Instead, they're kind of just using their kind of shoulders and upper areas and so I want to help get breathing all the way down to the beltline as much as possible. That comes up quite often, and oftentimes the musicality of our language can be something to discuss because all of our language has musicality to it. Sometimes, we can be a little bit more proactive in our application of musicality and that can help sometimes, and then other actors I might say pull back on that. Some actors might have a monotone, that kind of thing. I'm trying to invite more musicality into their language. There are lots of challenges in voice and certainly diction is an important part of what we do and projection too for stage actors.
Megan: Diction would be [inaudible]. Yeah.
Duane: There are a lot of things that come up when you work with actors.
Megan: They're like healthier ways to project.
Duane: Yeah.
Megan: Again, it is back to the deeper breathing.
Duane: Yeah. I like to think of the breathing and the diaphragmatic kind of support as the same as if you go to the circus and you get the big kind of the big mallet and you hit the thing and the bell rings.
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: The diaphragm is that thing on the bottom that we hit with the mallet and we want to ring that bell.
Megan: Okay.
Duane: If we've got enough diaphragmatic support, it's going to ring the bell and that is where we'll find our projection. It doesn't really happen up there where the bell is. It happens down here where the mallet is and so that's where the projection kind of helps and if we're really projecting properly, then you'll notice that like three-quarters of the way up, it's a smooth ride as opposed to oftentimes three-quarters of the way up we have our throats in the way. That's where things close down and that's where we can might get some challenges. Instead, we really bang that mallet hard, hit that ding that bell and it's a smooth ride. There's no actual stress or friction happening in the throat. That's the support really helps with that.
Megan: Yeah. I'm just thinking that shallow breathing is going to make you like, they always tell you if you're nervous, the deeper breathing too. There's like kind of killing two birds with one stone there.
Duane: Yeah. Definitely.
Carrie: [inaudible].
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. Exactly. Whenever you see an actor and when they're taking a breath, their shoulders rise, that's a bad sign. We want them to like if your shoulder's rising, then you're breathing high. We want your belly to stick out. That's why opera singers have those big barrel chests because they've been breathing, their lungs have gotten so large down low that they start pushing everything else out. That's why there are so many barrel-chested opera singers because of that breathing, which is one of the reasons I quit. I don't want to [inaudible].
Carrie: [inaudible] people. Okay.
Duane: [inaudible]. Yeah. That and the mindfuck. [inaudible].
Carrie: Right. The mindfuck. Yes.
Megan: I'm thinking about that. Is that something that's hard to teach another human being to do?
Duane: The singing?
Megan: No. Just the simple thing is breathing.
Duane: The diaphragmatic breathing. It's not necessarily hard. An accordion is another good example because an accordion, you filled with air and then it's the stress against the air that makes the sound, right? It's like the air being contained causes it to, now it makes a sound. Our diaphragms and our breathing kind of work the same way. We fill the chamber and then we are very careful releasing it. That's how we're going to get, now there's like this thing happening up where we create our sound that is very much like the keys of an accordion because it's the resistance against that air. If the air just escaped like whoosh, we wouldn't have any sound in the accordion. It's the containing of that air that causes the sound now to happen. We use the same principles as singers. It happens quite naturally. There's not a lot of effort there.
Carrie: More like a bagpipe.
Duane: Exactly.
Megan: I was actually imagining a bagpipe when you said accordion because that's how much I know about instruments. No. But now I got them both.
I got them both now.
Duane: Good. Yeah.
Carrie: Isn't your boyfriend a musician?
Megan: Yes. But he doesn't have bagpipes [inaudible].
Carrie: [inaudible]
Megan: One of the things that I'm thinking of as we're talking is how like we're talking about insecurity when it comes to singing. I'm thinking about how many people, I mean, I'm thinking about myself specifically, feel a little insecure because they're not like, maybe their diction isn't like where they want it to be or maybe they feel like they don't talk as well as people they see on TV or films, but there's a reason for that. There's scripted, and there's acting, right? Do you have anything to say about that? Because of the kind of like the zen idea, you wouldn't want people to act or these films or TV ads make anyone feel bad about the way they speak.
Duane: Yeah. I guess that's not the objective, but when you're an actor, speaking is part of your job, like in broadcasting or whatever.
Megan: Yeah. Absolutely.
Duane: There are certainly some approaches that I take really to energize our diction, one thing I say is to fall in love with consonants because consonants are what tells the story and every consonant is actually an opportunity. There's a visceral feel that you get, like if I said the word strict. There are five beautiful consonants in that word, strict. They're all opportunities and they're all gorgeous. Really, it's a matter of us in our thinking and in our understanding to kind of go, "Okay. I'm going to prioritize consonants." Once we make that shift, it can become quite natural for us. At first, it feels clunky and we feel weird. Pretty soon, it becomes quite natural for us and we are able to really energize the consonants. When I'm reading a script, I see the consonants as opportunities. They're like little gold stars, just like, "Oh" It's like some Pac-Man game and they're like fuel or something, you know?
Megan: That makes sense. Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. Consonants are really opportunities. If we really take advantage of them and don't miss any, we'll be good.
Megan: That reminds me of the word important because I listen to a lot of podcasts and I've noticed everyone says all those, like I've been listening to this word specifically, people say all the consonants and I don't. Maybe that's one of my insecurities. I'm like picking up on it because I say important.
Carrie: Which has kind of become the standard way of pronouncing it.
Megan: Right. But I think that there are people who are slower or being more mindful when they are talking because maybe there's a microphone in front of them. Yeah. I really pick up on things like that. I'm noticing these things. It can be hard, a little bit hard. Like maybe you're starting off and you want to be an actor to get past these things that the way you say it and the way you grew up saying them and you kind of feel like they're kind of deficiencies. It makes you feel a little insecure. I think I could see that.
Duane: Yeah. I think it can happen that way. But I really think it's a pretty quick fix. It really is a matter of shifting our thinking to understand the opportunities that the sounds of the word have. There's a visceral reaction that an audience has to like "st" sound like we're actually communicating more powerfully if we can use these consonants to create visceral reactions. We'll notice too that when we really accentuate the consonants, it helps energize our language. It cuts through to the ear of the audience more efficiently. Then it also adds conviction from my perspective about what I'm talking about. It's a win-win. It isn't really that difficult. It's just a new way of thinking about words and how much investment we're going to have in them.
Carrie: It also reminds me of singing, like when you're singing, the longest parts are the vowels because you can carry the tune.
Duane: Yes.
Carrie: It almost feels like the inverse. But do you think you're still also focusing on the consonants?
Duane: Well, in a sense, you're absolutely right. Singing is 94% vowel. Then with a little "st" at the end, right?
Carrie: Okay. Right.
Duane: Like, whatever the word is, you know?
Carrie: Like a flourish.
Duane: Yeah. We're going to sing like, if you're singing the word like a roast, yeah? It's like roast.
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: Yes.
Duane: It's all roast. Then you just like, throw the consonant in at the very last second. We don't really sing "rrr."
Carrie: No.
Duane: Right? Or "Roasstt." Right? We're singing the O. The vowels are what we're singing. You're absolutely right in that. It is pretty much the inverse. But of course, we still need the consonants to be just as energized because we have to end that O sound with something. There are very few cardinal sins when you're an actor but if the audience looks at each other and says, what do you say?
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: [inaudible].
Duane: That's it. That's one of the bases we have to cover. We've got to make sure everything we say is understood. Maybe what we're talking about is complex. Let them worry about that. But don't let them think, what did he say? Because now they're totally out of it. We can't be powerful if our words are fundamentally not understood. There's no way for us to have a powerful message if we don't have the audience understand the actual words we're saying.
Megan: Right. That makes a lot of sense. Especially since we don't know you.
It's like, if I'm supposed to have any sort of emotional reaction to your performance, I better be able to understand what you're saying because I don't have a personal connection.
Duane: Yeah. No.
Megan: Because like, I could miss 25% of what Carrie says, but I still have a personal connection. It might be more inclined to feel anything toward what she's saying.
Duane: Right. Yeah. We just have to like, help the audience.
Megan: [inaudible]. Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. The audience is making their investment in you. We can make an investment in them too. That is to energize our language so that the audience doesn't fall out of what it is we're trying to communicate. Yeah. They're working hard. We have to help them. We have to reward them for working hard.
Megan: Yeah. What about like these very intense, like crying or sobbing scenes, but you can still understand what people are saying? That ain't happening in real life, right?
Carrie: Yeah. It's a mess when you're really crying.
Duane: Yeah. I don't do a lot of crying and sobbing scenes, actually. I did actually some crying scenes and some stuff recently. Yeah. I guess every situation would be different as far as whether I'm going to be understood or not. Yeah. Whatever best served the audience experience. That's what I'll do.
Megan: Okay. There might be a time when you're acting and you're like, "Actually, this is going to be kind of not understandable."
Carrie: Yeah.
Duane: Yup.
Megan: Okay. Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. All the rules are there to be broken. Every single one of them. It's great to learn that rule and then find a time to break it. Break that rule too.
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: Break them all. Because if the audience doesn't know you're going to be willing to break rules, then there are no surprises. I mean, so we've got to like let the audience know that I'm not only going to play by the rules, I'm going to break them too. Then now we've really got a state of surprise for the audience.
Megan: Is that fun for you then breaking the rules?
Duane: Yeah. A big part of my book is called anti-acting.
Megan: What's anti-acting?
Duane: Well, let's look at...I talk about magic, right? It's a magic trick. I want to be a good magician. My magic trick is this, I'm not an actor. I'm the character I'm playing. That's the magic trick. Yes. I want to become good at that magic trick. The first part of that trick is I'm not an actor. Why don't I try to avoid doing things that actors do? What do actors do? They make sense. They look good. They sound good. They convince everybody. They keep going. We look at all this stuff and kind of go, What if I didn't do those things? What if I didn't look good? What if I didn't sound good? What if I didn't make sense?" Now, we've got something really exciting. A big part of the book is anti-acting, and that's what that is about. Let's break the rules, and all the rules look good, do it good, make sense, convince everybody, and impress everybody. What if we don't do any of those things? Won't we become better magicians because we're not doing what actors do?
Megan: It feels like that's where it should be going or is going anyway, because I feel like I can connect more to characters that I see on screen now because they don't look like they just woke up and were at a salon or whatever, like as a simple example.
Carrie: Yeah.
Duane: Yeah. Absolutely correct that we're like, we can see ourselves in that, you know what I mean? We can't all see ourselves in the perfect whatever, but once the actor starts embracing the flaws of the character, then now we can kind of go, "Okay. I identify with that. I made that mistake in my life." Whatever. There's a lot more fertile ground in characters' kind of flaws than there is in their perfections. There's a lot more there, dramatically fertile, interesting stuff. That's what I want us to do don't fix our characters, highlight how they're broken.
Carrie: [inaudible]. Yes.
Megan: That almost is like really showing compassion for other human beings, because if we're going to play someone perfectly as an actor, I mean, is that really compassionate? You're going to make people feel shitty about themselves.
Duane: There's nothing to care about if everything's perfect, you know what I mean? Like the basic acting kind of cliche is like to raise the stakes, right? To raise the stakes really is to make things a bit more discomfortable. That's what I'm looking to do each time, comedy or drama, how do we heighten the stakes so that now what's happening on stage or on camera is important? It can happen or it can happen and be important. Let's make it important. How do we do that? We raise the stakes. How do we do that? We kind of create more discomfort. That's how more stakes get higher.
Carrie: That's interacting with our environment, our society too, because I'm thinking about how I was watching something, probably justified, where I'm thinking like, so seeing someone who's supposed to be very manly, but then being emotional in a way that I learned was not manly by, this is what society is teaching me, was a really nice for me to see on TV. I feel like breaking rules is also very society-based where you are.
Duane: Yeah. It shows us like, I think, again, a lot of my book is like, how do we show the other side of every coin? That's just not, nothing's just heads, you know what I mean? There's a tail there. If I can bring that along with my work, so you might be on either side of the coin, but it's like you see yourself in there somewhere. You mentioned a little Zen and a lot of the thinking here is kind of the Zen as in what's the other side of every coin? Now, there's depth there. There's texture. It's not a facade. It has actual dimensions to it. That's the way we try to approach our work.
Carrie: What's your favorite part of acting?
Duane: My favorite part of acting?
Megan: Like asking what your favorite child is to a parent?
Duane: Yeah.
Carrie: [inaudible].
Megan: What makes you the most excited?
Duane: As I said before, I like discomfort. I really...I play a lot of bad guys. I played like this, you saw me in that play, I was a murderer or whatever, you know what I mean?
Carrie: [inaudible]
Duane: Really? [inaudible]
Carrie: [inaudible]
Megan: [inaudible]
Duane: [inaudible]. I'm kind of sweet in real life. Yeah. But no, I play a lot of bad guys and psychos and whatever. I really enjoy that. You remember that in this particular play, I play a murderer, but I was also one of the audience to feel sorry for my character. Have a lot of empathy for my character. That is like, to me, that's what's exciting, is that I can play a bad guy and make the audience love me. I was a very bad guy in this. I mean, there's a lot going on.
Carrie: [inaudible]
Duane: Yeah. There's a lot of going on. But I still thought if I could find a way for the audience to have compassion for my character, even though I did such incredibly despicable things. Now, to me, that's the energy and that's the kind of, that's the sort of dichotomy and depth and like the range of emotional value that I find exciting, is when I can sort of, again, I said both sides of the coin. The character who is on the head's side is a murderer and on the tail side is a sweet, vulnerable human being. If I can show both of those things and make those opposing ideas very far away from each other, now I'm extremely excited.
Megan: That is exciting, even just as a human listening to it, because we contain multitudes. It's nice to see that. Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah. Yes, we do.
Duane: Yeah. We've all got every opportunity somewhere in there. Every emotional value is possible for any of us, you know? I love it to make just whatever I can do to help an audience have a new understanding of something they thought they had all figured out and then we show them something and like, "Well, wait a second, maybe I should think about this again." That's always powerful.
Megan: Well, that's one of the biggest critiques a lot of like, I don't know, a lot of people of color might have about how they're represented on screen because it's just like black or white. If you are a Latino male, you're going to be a thug and you're going to be in prison one day or whatever. Like, that's how they're depicted and you don't get to see a soft side or anything that is on the other side of the coin.
Duane: Right.
Megan: That's why I think that this really resonates because I feel like more people understand that and you're actually seeing it on screen. Like, maybe people always understood it. Probably. Yes. Absolutely. But now you're seeing it.
Duane: Right. Yeah. I agree. I think that's really part of what makes everything exciting. We don't want to see one-dimensional characters. We need to know there's depth there. In order to create complexity, I need to show you this but have you also know that that is also present so that you can't just kind of put my character in your pocket and kind of go, "Got it. I know what you are." Instead, there's some depth there. There's something worth investigating. There's some curiosity our audience can have for us and that's a lot more vibrant.
Megan: That becomes predictable, right? Then we know exactly what your character's going to do next if you're one-dimensional.
Duane: Yeah. If you're one-dimensional, there are no surprises. We know exactly what to expect. Yeah.
Carrie: Why do you think you keep getting bad-guy roles?
Duane: Let's see. Well, I think maybe because I relish them so much. I have a bit of a kind of aggressive, again, I'm talking a lot about my book but why wouldn't I?
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: Yeah. Of course.
Duane: It's kind of everything I think, you know. Basically, the fundamental idea of being an actor at all is what I call the aggressive act is to make some shit happen and not hope it happens or wait for it to happen or allow it to happen. I gotta make some shit happen and when I'm playing a bad guy, I know how to make some shit happen, you know what I mean? I do comedy and whatever. I do all those things and that's all lovely but I love the challenge of scaring an audience or like in my head, I'm hoping you have nightmares tonight about whatever that experience was. I'm really coming after you in the audience. It's basically great powerful storytelling an emotional gut punch and I'm coming after your belly. Yeah.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah. Tell us a little bit about Ear because I don't know anything about it. Were you playing a bad guy in that as well?
Duane: I don't know if you'd call him a bad guy. Yeah. Probably. In that one, I played, it's a really amazing script. It's by a local writer here, Ashley Naftule over at Space55. He wrote this thing and it was absolutely wonderful and I played a character who's like a psychologist and I get a patient and I have like this Oedipal therapy thing. Yeah. It was pretty weird. My character was full-on Oedipal complex and it was nasty and scary and like really kind of skeeved out the audience and I won Best Actor.
Megan: Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah.
Duane: I just love that. I mean, again, that's where I really like it. If I can, I'm coming after you. You know the show, Sweeney Todd. I played Sweeney Todd three times. I played that role three times and that's kind of as a bridge between opera and [inaudible].
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: Yeah. That's true.
Duane: I played that role three times and I'm coming after you. I'm like each time I'm on stage, I'm coming after your belly. Sometimes certain roles, there's a little bit easier to attack with, you know? I always like playing bad guys. I seek out those roles.
Megan: Okay.
Duane: Yeah.
Megan: Yeah. I need to see that on stage. I've only seen the movie version.
Carrie: Yeah.
Duane: Of?
Megan: Sweeney Todd.
Duane: Yeah. The stage version is awesome too. Absolutely.
Carrie: I'm sure [inaudible].
Megan: Yeah. Would be fun to see a stage version of that.
Duane: Yeah.
Carrie: Yeah.
Megan: Yeah. Thank you so much.
Carrie: Yeah. Thank you.
Megan: Do you have any last words for our audience?
Duane: You're not really Hamlet and everybody knows it. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and all that stuff. Yeah. Everything's kind of how you think about it and I guess you guys are mostly into linguistic kind of endeavors and stuff. I think whatever it is we're trying to overcome or whatever it is that we're trying to, if there's something we're hoping to improve on public speaking or whatever, there's a way. There's a way to improve. None of us are deficient. None of us are no good at something. We just haven't learned the process yet and haven't been patient enough to apply it so that it becomes natural, and becomes part of our instincts. Once you do that, everybody can do whatever they need to do, but it takes some time, some patience and we've got to sort of put that fear away and take it on and understand that I'm capable of doing whatever it is I'm challenged with.
Carrie: Beautiful.
Megan: [inaudible]. Yep.
Carrie: Thank you.
Duane: Thank you. Sure. My pleasure. [inaudible]. Yeah.
Megan: That's great.
Duane: Cool.
Carrie: We always leave our listeners with one final word, don't be an asshole.
Megan: Don't be an asshole.
Duane: I'm trying.
Carrie: We're all trying. We're all [inaudible].
Megan: Yeah.
Duane: Exactly.
Carrie: Thank you.
Duane: Thank you.
Carrie: The Vocal Fries Podcast is produced by me, Carrie Gillon, for Halftone Audio. The music is by Nick Granum. You can find us on Tumblr, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at Vocal Fries Pod. You can email us at vocalfriespod@gmail.com and our website is vocalfriespod.com
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