Davey  0:26  
Welcome to Whose turn is it anyway? a podcast all about our gaming group and of course, board games. I'm James Davey, who's been King Made and is your new current first player, suck it! I'm joined by other players...JP 

JP  0:41  
Hello,

Davey  0:42  
Tambo 

Tambo  0:43  
Hello 

Davey  0:43  
To talk about cardboard arcade. How's everyone doing today?

JP  0:47  
Yeah, pretty good, mate. Pretty good. I have to say I'm slightly nervous, like you've taken over the reins. Your first player, I've got the bleep machine on standby. I think we need to put like a little warning to our listeners that, maybe the language is gonna get a little bit salty for the next few....

Davey  1:04  
I know there was a swear word in the title, but I don't know whether to keep it in or not. I might just I might just get rid of it, it is in brackets.

JP  1:09  
Might suprise everybody? or not surpise. But anyone who knows Davey, he loves saying shit and things like that

Well, it's just I like using it in a.. you know, 

All the time. 

Davey  1:22  
Say emphasis Yeah. Can't think of the word, so we're moving on. Right, Tambo?

Tambo  1:27  
Yeah, I'm all good. Thanks

Davey  1:29  
He's back again. Again.

JP  1:31  
It's good to do an episode with you Tambo.

Tambo  1:34  
Yep, it is

Davey  1:35  
Definitely so. So as a brief update to our podcast schedule, because I know it's been a bit 'Here, there, everywhere' expansions and all of this. JP is just going to fill us in the anal man. He is. Off you go. 

JP  1:48  
Thanks, mate! I just wanted to kind of highlight that we've obviously been releasing a hell of a lot of expansion pack episodes. And if you don't know what the hell we're talking about, expansion pack episodes are kind of our side hustle side projects of doing kind of content maybe with guests that we've had. Previously we've had Paul Grogan, we've had you Eurydice Games, designers and publishers and manufacturers of FlickFleet and also Dan Apsey from the 24 hour boardgame marathon and then we've got a lot more kind of in the chamber to kind of carry on, but essentially, our main episodes are still going to try and stick to our fortnightly release, and I would just have to shuffle the last one around a little bit. But generally we're going to try and keep the main episodes to every fortnight and we'll sprinkle in the expansion packs.

Davey  2:39  
The content cannon is firing, don't you worry. Yeah, we

JP  2:45  
We've created a lot more work for ourselves. You know, the stress is getting higher but they're so much fun to do, aren't they? And... and it just gives us that.. I think as a podcast that flexibility to explore, tests things as well. Maybe we test different episode ideas, I got loads of things that I could try, they might work they might not might be a bit shit. I've sworn twice and...

Davey  3:10  
We're hoping to have a Wargaming one with maybe some guests coming up soon as well. So dabbling into the different side. Yeah. And

JP  3:17  
I mean, I'm happy to kind of just do some like solo ones. Probably just me on my own talking...Having a little ramble for 20 minutes. Who knows? We'll see how it goes.

Davey  3:34  
So let's talk about hex, the little segment where we just kind of talk about what we've been up to.

JP  3:39  
You're not gonna do the intro like Adrian has been doing in the past four weeks.

Davey  3:43  
What intro's that again, remind me 

JP  3:46  
I can't remember. It's based off the song isn't it? Let's talk about sex.

Davey  3:50  
Yeah i know, but I know it's based on the song but I couldn't remember what he was doing. I wasn't gonna go down that avenue. 

JP  3:55  
I've put you on the spot. 

Davey  3:56  
Yeah, that's fine. Put me on the spot as much as you want. Don't have a clue. I've listened to a lot of times but it isn't... obviously not gone into the, into the cortex so

JP  4:05  
I'm winding you up, carry on

Davey  4:06  
So over to JP what have you been up to?

JP  4:08  
Yeah. As always lots to choose from but we always have a rule to say pick one because the whole episode would literally just be this, might be quite fun one time but 

Davey  4:18  
We can sit around for hours and hours talking about board games. 

JP  4:21  
And we do so but I'm actually going to pick Burncycle, mainly because it's probably been the game that I've played the most since the last episode I've been on, and obviously I've missed the last one and a bit of the one before so yeah, Burncycle is a game published by my favourite publisher Chip Theory games. No surprise,

Davey  4:43  
Suprise surprise! Yeah, shock horror. Yeah, but everyone's mouths hit the floor.

JP  4:48  
Really? It's more poker chips. Yes. It's more neoprene I know. But essentially what is it? Burncycle is set in the future. You are all kind of robots that are a resistance group called the 404. And you're essentially infiltrating nasty, horrible corporations run by horrible people. So pretty much like real life. And, and the premise or the story behind the game, if you want to attach a story or lore to this, is that humans created robots, robots developed artificial intelligence, humans ended up wiping themselves out, the robots ended up bringing humans back because they were nice. And then the humans enslave the robots.

Davey  5:32  
The Terminator just with a whole middle section chucked it

JP  5:40  
And, and you are this, like resistance group that's trying to not overthrow the other corporations, but you're trying to get back your code that you can become free again, essentially. And so you kind of pick your plucky robots, and it's got this kind of it doesn't take itself seriously whatsoever. So it's got that 'Too Many Bones', pun vibe to it, which I quite enjoy, and, and it's essentially a stealth game. So think Metal Gear Solid

Davey  6:08  
Snake Snake,

JP  6:09  
Like Metal Gear Solid, where you're going into like these kind of buildings and facilities, and you're trying to sneak past guards and distract them, lead them astray, get to your objective, do the missions. And what's quite cool about it is that it's there's developed over multiple floors in the building. And you have objectives that you have to do for each floor and work your way up. Just like Too Many Bones, but not as much in depth customization that you do have with your Gearlocs, that every bot is different, they all have a series of...

Davey  6:44  
More programming though...

JP  6:46  
And there's a bit of programming element in there because one of the bots you always have to take with you is called the Command Module and the Command Module is like the, the bot that's running the Burncycle. So, so essentially, the Burncycle is the action programming selection mechanism the entire game, if you can think of free slots, which is what the Burncycle is kind of created on and you can alter the Burncycle by putting these chips in by adding like a physical action chip or a tech action chip or utility one. And if you match your action to that chip, you get an optimised action so you get a better kind of return on your efficiency essentially, if you programme your moves in a certain way. And and that itself is quite an interesting puzzles to mess around with.

Davey  7:30  
It's quite like Marmite, I hear though, from certain responses?

JP  7:33  
Yeah it's, it's, it's not gonna be a game for everybody. I mean, if you want more, I want to go and beat things up. It is not that game. It's very puzzly. And actually, for me, I can't see me playing 4 player ever. Because I think it will just take too long and probably it doesn't need 4 players and I think 2 is probably the maximum I'd ever want to play at. But I play a lot solo and I think it's just a fantastic game to play solo. It's surprised me actually how much I'm enjoying it. And, and it's yeah, a lot of variety in there a lot of bots a lot of different kind of abilities that the bots do. You know, one comes with a drone that you can send off, one can do something else, ones like big muscley you can break walls down and  again, it's just it's more puzzly I'd say, you have to try and work it out

Davey  8:27  
I'm quite intrigued, it does look good.

JP  8:31  
It's pretty cool. But yeah, is it better than bones? No, course it's not, nothing's better than Too Many Bones, but am I enjoying it? Absolutely. Has it got flaws. Yeah. I think it's... it's not perfect. But I'm surprised how much I keep coming back to it to

Davey  8:51  
Well enjoyment's the main thing isn't it you're enjoying it then?

JP  8:54  
One: it makes you feel clever. So when you kind of navigate around the the guards or even manipulate them to move in a certain direction so you can do something else. And you feel like... when you pull that off and you're like my plan has worked, 

Davey  8:54  
It's that light bulb moment. It's all come together. Eureka

JP  9:01  
Yeah. And then it all comes together. Yeah. And then like in Metal Gear Solid. Sometimes it doesn't work and you get that noise. then they all come after you and beat you up. So it's yeah, it's all good fun, though. I recommend giving it a whirl. 

Davey  9:21  
There we go. How about yourself? Tambo.

Tambo  9:24  
So recently JP was kind enough to host, we played Nemesis: Lockdown. Oh, yes. Yeah. Which is a standalone expansion, isn't it? So you can get Yeah, so you don't actually have to have Nemesis to play it? Yeah, it was great. Really good. I'm a massive fan of Nemesis anyway.

JP  9:40  
I think we all are 

Davey  9:41  
Yeah, we do enjoy Nemesis

Tambo  9:43  
Yeah, it was very punishing as it always is, very punishing.

Davey  9:47  
What game hasn't been? I mean, out of the games we played I think people have escaped like twice and done their mission?

JP  9:54  
About three wins.

Tambo  9:55  
Three. It's very base... Basically like Nemesis, the cards... Spending your actions... is very similar, but there are a few different extra things you can do on it which was... the power which was the main one wasn't it? It was, we didn't realise how punishing it was we can switch the power on and off or try and keep it on because it keeps turning off. 

Davey  10:14  
More bad guys come out if the powers off then?

JP  10:17  
Erm, not necessarily no, the power is a mechanic that's linked to the Nightstalkers which is the new alien bad guys, bat-like creatures, and they thrive in darkness. Okay, so you know how you pull the tokens out of the bag? Yeah, they've got two numbers on, one is if you're in the light, one is in the dark, also event cards punishing you.

Tambo  10:40  
There's always a Darkness event on the event cards, which is horrible. So it's yeah, it's a bad event. Then even worst

Davey  10:46  
Good thing if you're evil then, you can keep turning light off

Tambo  10:48  
Absolutely yeah,

JP  10:50  
Or not fix the lights altogether.

Tambo  10:52  
Well, in this scenario we were playing I was the blind person. So actually, I was wasn't that bad in night, so it didn't bother me that much. Lab Rat, Yeah, so she's already blind. So in your, in darkness, you've got cards that affect the darkness and events. So... and unfortunately, I started near the power room, which we found, and then, so these guys wanted me to turn it on, but it didn't intrest me to turn it on, but it was punishing in the end. But um, again, really, really, really good game. Nice. Yeah,

JP  11:20  
Yeah, the the mechanic it has on the time track is essentially, it starts switching certain power sections off as the time track moves along. And if you don't activate the backup generator, then the power switch off happens more frequently. And to be fair, it was our first game with it, with the new characters and then I realised about halfway through that, oh, I can use an elevator without the power, damn! it was my ability, if I'd figured that out earlier, I would have nipped back down activate the power generator and then we might have been alright,

Davey  11:54  
How are the new characters? 

Tambo  11:56  
Yeah, they seem quite good. Yeah. What else? The Lab Rat. There's a janitor, who was the janitor?

Davey  12:01  
I was gonna say with the lights going on and off and you need to fix the lights is there going to be a janitor? And of course there's a janitor. Yeah.

Tambo  12:09  
There's more staff people now isn't there on this one

JP  12:11  
Yeah, there's more facility staff and Kerley was the...he was like a guard/sentry. That was it. And we had a hacker. Yep. Which was Jay, 

Tambo  12:19  
Which he couldn't find a computer. So it's hilarious. So he was actually useless. He ran around and he got really frustrated as well.

JP  12:26  
I think he'd had a bad night in general and then played nemesis, which is probably not the best idea

Davey  12:31  
Yeah, can be quite punishing. 

JP  12:33  
But no, I enjoyed it.

Tambo  12:35  
The other extra mechanic is on the computer. When you play you could be this computer deck now, so each computer has different effects. You can choose to use one or two or three,

JP  12:44  
yes, it's a lot better, 

Tambo  12:45  
And you burn the card, and there's another one. So all computers have different...

Davey  12:47  
Effects. That is nice. It adds another layer to it. Because sometimes you do feel quite limited with what actions you can do in a room. So that gives you...

JP  12:56  
 Close windows, close doors, you can move power around the facility; just gives you a bit more flexibility in helping people or shafting people. Yeah.

Tambo  13:05  
Which we didn't get to do much anyway, because we couldn't find a computer. So maybe next time we'll try next time. So yeah, no, that was the biggest game I played, I've really enjoyed, I play a lot of other games, but we can only choose one. So that was the one.

JP  13:18  
Briefly before we probably wrap that up, but the coolest bit I actually really enjoyed was actually the contingencies. So what that is, is at the end of the time track, you pick one of the, oh I don't know, seven or nine tokens facedown. And that sits at the bottom and then every player gets dealt one of the other ones. So essentially, you have a reference card, and you know that the token you get is not the contingency that's in play. Because you've got it, you're trying to deduce what that contingency is. And it's basically what the corporation is going to do at the end of the time. And it's a case of if you're in a  CSS pod, you die, or if you're in the bunker, you die. Or if you're in this particular place you die, or if you've sent the signal

Davey  14:02  
So it's not always good to get an escape pod or something. 

JP  14:05  
Whereas before it was always like 'get to the escape pod, get home' you can say...

Tambo  14:09  
You can do your whole goals, and then suddenly you might just die. Yeah, yeah, we'll figure that out. Yes. Yeah.

Davey  14:14  
Who dunnit, a little bit

JP  14:16  
Its like Cluedo, but with horrible shit. Poor Tambo got shanked on his last turn

Tambo  14:24  
I was so close to getting in the buggy. I had to get through one event first

Davey  14:28  
Could you not see it coming as that character no?

Tambo  14:30  
No, no, no. I was blind, so no.

Davey  14:34  
Right. So, I have been playing, Return to Dark Tower, but I was going to talk about our later, so the main one I was going to talk about was Bitoku. So we, me and Tambo had a game of Bitoku, real nice dice Euro game that also has a bit of deck building in there as well. And like a board management. Two player was really good. I feel like 4 player would have better contention. But it is a really pretty game. The dice values matter, you never roll a dice, but your dice values matter. And you always have to manipulate them. Worker placement aspect, but you're putting your dice out instead. And the value of that dice gives you other benefits which are down or means that you can't go to certain spaces, and then that dice will then ascend and you lose a certain value of that dice and you get another action. And you kind of end up chaining these actions together to give you VP's. And, and basically just do cool things.

Tambo  15:32  
While we're on about VP's, there are so many different ways you could have got VPs off that game.

Davey  15:36  
Yes

Tambo  15:37  
You can go down four different routes. Yeah, just choose one and do it, which is really nice

Davey  15:41  
Really nice. I think the more you play it, you'll have more effect on other people, because you will see where they're going. And you're trying to stop them in other aspects. So it's definitely got it's replayability.

Tambo  15:52  
There'll be definitely more to think about with 4 players. Yes, yeah,

Davey  15:54  
Because with two players, there's only one slot in each area. So there's not really much contention, whereas with four player, you have three or four slots in each area. But you can't go there if a dice value is more than your dice you're putting out. So it starts adding this contention of, you've got to wait till that person ascends that dice before you can get out there. But then you don't want to wait too long, because you won't be able to asend because where the ascension is, there's less slots,

JP  16:23  
What's the theme of the game?

Davey  16:24  
Theme is.. so you're a spirit, right? And you are basically wanting to become a God. One of the main spirits, and it's just about going round the Spirit Isle... it's kind of Japanese. Yeah, it, it just looks really pretty. And it's... I'm sure there's more to it. I'm probably quite liberal about the mechanics. Yeah, I know. It looks nice as well. And I mean, my missus she looked at it and went 'Oooh, I think I'd like to play that'. No you won't, I don't think you probably would actually.

Tambo  16:59  
To be fair, when you first look at it, it looks really confusing. But once you play it is actually very simple. Yeah, we play a lot of games, but it is actually very simple.

Davey  17:07  
Yes, it's simple in application. But it's complicated in developing a strategy. So it all your actions are simple and what you do, but then actually putting forward the strategy and putting them all together. I think there's... that's where the complexity comes in. Yeah. Yeah.

JP  17:26  
I'm looking forward to playing, we've got a game....

Davey  17:29  
The game coming up. Yeah. So

Tambo  17:30  
I missed out on that one. It filled up very quickly. Yes. Yeah. I've played it already, so it's good. Yeah, we must...

Davey  17:37  
They'll be more if people like it, there'll be more going in anyway. So there we go, that's that one

So today's episode, cardboard arcade, we're going to talk about the conversion of video games into board games. Fad, folly, or fucking fantastic? Let's find out

JP  18:03  
Beeeeep! Oh, too late with my machine.

Davey  18:04  
So we all kind of play a lot of computer games in our youth, and some of us still do. We've seen the early computer games when they turn them into board games, where it's just they're just doing it for for licencing and everything else. We're here talking about how it's kind of developed, changed. And now we're getting pretty much, not like for like, but just as complex, just as many mechanics all thrown into a board game,

JP  18:33  
The serious adaptation of the licence and intellectual property and the way that game works, right? This is this is what a lot of publishers are doing now. I'm still, I'm sure there's still the old kind of shitty stuff that's still out there. Like, oh, let's get a game but let's put that out and yeah, and see if it sells. But there was a lot of publishers that are actually doing the effort. 

Davey  18:57  
They've been kind of put their all into it. And it's just it's come so far that I feel like board games now are taking a lot of influence from computer games, and sometimes vice versa. But they're taking a lot of influence from computer games and adding in these mechanics and it's working because there's just, I don't know whether a lot of people have got more used to certain mechanics. So a lot of these games flow more now, or whether they've just implemented mechanics a lot better now rule books have got better, and it's become a lot more streamlined.

JP  19:31  
I think it's we're in this golden age of board gaming tabletop gaming right now. And we have been for more than a the past 5 6 7 8 years or whatever. And it's just, I mean, we think it's massively popular because we're in our little insular bubble you know, and I know as soon as you talk about this, this hobby to anybody else, they're like, What the hell are you talking about?

Davey  19:55  
Cluedo, monopoly all these things get a mention still. You think 'Nah, it's come so far'

JP  20:01  
Because we're in our bubble, but you know, within the bubble, the bubble is getting bigger. And there's a lot more people in there and you just have to look at UK, UK games Expo. And look how many people are just there in the UK, right, not counting Essen and not counting, you know, Origins Game Fair or whatever in the States and Gen Con and all those other ones that they literally 10s and hundreds of 1000s of people, probably millions. I, you know, know about the games that we play, and, and I think publishers of video games now are seen as a more viable market maybe to try and tap into and they know that you can't get away with just putting crap out there. 

Davey  20:41  
Also, it's also I feel a lot more accessible for people that because I used to play a lot of computer games, and I've kind of now start playing more board games than I do computer games. It doesn't really, I prefer the social aspect, I think of the board gaming side. And I've showed that my friends Lord of the Rings card game. And usually they're like big Destiny players like computer games, and wouldn't really play anything else. But they've been playing a lot more board games now. Because they've, I've been showing them all the different types that there are. And it's not just you know, limited to these like Talisman or, roll and moves. They've got a lot more complex mechanics, there's a lot more to it now. There's a lot more character building everything else. So they've, yeah, they've actually been playing a lot more. And I feel like that's kind of closing the gap now. And that's why it's becoming more popular.

JP  21:32  
Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think a lot of people that are kind of sharing, I mean Christ, how many times have we tried to get others into the hobby? It's kind of like, as soon as anyone mentioned board game, I was in the office, literally last week at work. And, and someone was commenting my wallpaper on my laptop, which was Nemesis: Lock down, weirdly enough. And he asked and he, 'Oh, what, what's that?' I said 'Oh, it's a board game'. And he's like 'What?'. And, and then we just started having a chat. And then I got really excited. And you know, the next thing I knew I was a Board Game Geek. 'Look, look, theres's loads, there's so many!' And and yeah, I think this particular person had dabbled and played like Betrayal at House on the Hill. Yes. Yeah. And usual Carcassonne and the other stuff. But yeah, it's it's just you get excited, don't you either? Yeah. Yeah, definitely come and join in. We want you to know about our secret club and make it not secret anymore.

Davey  22:35  
I guess the difference is probably, I'd like to say the cost? But I think computer games about the same cost as a board game. 

Tambo  22:42  
It's like £60 quid a new game now isn't it? 

Davey  22:44  
I guess space is a bit different because it you can download it onto a hard drive. Whereas the boards games, you know, 

JP  22:51  
You only need one Kallax cube for your Xbox or Playstation? Yeah. And and then have lots of terabytes of storage. And you're good, aren't you?

Davey  23:00  
Yeah. But 10 12. Out of all of those what's kind of your favourite conversion? Who's done it? The best?

JP  23:12  
God? That is a question. That is a question.

Davey  23:16  
What's your favourite? What do you feel has kept to its source material

JP  23:21  
For me? I've got one. Yeah, for me. Civilization. 

Davey  23:25  
Yeah

JP  23:26  
I think and I'm talking about the 2010 version that Fantasy Flight Games had published many moons ago. When you play that game, it feels like Civ, plays a hell of a lot shorter time, even though it is three/four hours long. Yes. But you know you can play Civ six for a while

Davey  23:47  
I think what makes that is the tech tree in it. That kind of links that over to in my eyes. 

JP  23:52  
Yeah, it's that, that pyramid structure you're building of your tech, I love that. You know you can't do a level two until you've got two level ones underneath and then you kind of building up the tech tree to that fifth level to...

Davey  24:04  
It creates competition between you and other players as well because you've always gonna be watching their tech tree and you've, it's kind of like a little bit of a race with your tech in that aspect

JP  24:14  
And I've not played Civ: New Dawn, all the Terra Incognita. I would actually really like to mainly because it's got the the action selection mechanism what's the same as Ark Nova because Ark Nova used the same one as Civ: New Dawn 

Davey  24:28  
Oh, really?

JP  24:28  
Yeah, it's the same thing. And I think that'd be quite an interesting take on it. But But yeah, when I'm sitting down and playing Civ, it feels like I'm playing Civ. They've done the mechanics, the feeling and, and again for me, when you're playing a board game it's what you touched upon Davey, is that social element. And even if I was playing Civ online, I'm, got a headset on or I'm, you know, miles away from the other players, but I can sit, look at people's eyes and just have that experience.

Davey  25:00  
I guess we're kind of old school gamers. So when we grew up with it, it was, it was couch, couch co-op, you know, a lot of couch play. So you'd always be playing with video games and your friends. And now I feel like a lot of that's kind of gone away from the social side of it because you sit on a mic online with each other instead. So we've gravitated towards maybe board games to get that social aspect.

JP  25:25  
One of the best moments in my life as a kid.. Having a SNES, Super Nintendo was getting the four player multitap, so we can have four controllers and play Bomberman. Four player Bomberman, man. Oh my God, changed my life. Really?

Davey  25:42  
Do a boardgame Bomberman,

JP  25:46  
A deck builder Bomberman. Oh my god. We played that for weeks. Yeah.

Davey  25:52  
So much fun.

JP  25:52  
But it's the same principle though,  because you're there, the banter is there. Someone messes up? You're laughing. Yeah. It's the same kind of thing. Yes. anyway, Civ.

Davey  26:01  
Okay, how about you Tambo?

Tambo  26:03  
To be honest, I'd probably have to say Doom was quite good. You know? It's a dungeon crawler. Yep. The monsters were there. They look really good.

Davey  26:12  
Yes. very thematic.

Tambo  26:13  
Yeah. And then all the weapons are there. So yeah, Doom was one of my favourites, I think

Davey  26:17  
It feels like... I was gonna agree and go with Doom as well. It feels like Doom. It's fast action fast paced. Lot going on. Maybe it's a little bit imbalanced. And the the evil guy probably needs to be a little bit stronger.

JP  26:34  
No maybe about that.

Davey  26:36  
You definitely feel... You definitely feel like you're kicking ass as the Doom characters. You just go around. Just blowing everything up. 

JP  26:44  
It's definitely more fun to be the Doom guy or one of those, than it is to be the I forget proper...invaders or whatever they're called. Because I always remember a game where we had, I was the the bad guys. And Chris and the group was just using the teleporters or one of you was, and you were just teleporting left and right. It was just like 'You broke the game. I can't do anything. This is not fun'. But you're right when you're playing as the good guys, and you're comboing that card because it's like a deck of 10 cards right? Yeah. And you're chaining and like 'do this and then do the chain that off, chain that off' 

Davey  27:19  
Blow him up and I'm destroying him. 

JP  27:21  
That is fun. Yeah.

Davey  27:23  
Got a new gun, got the BFG, blowing them up. So yeah, it feels like Doom, which is quite hard to do. But it probably needs an AI element to it. So you could play it four player against the computer. Yes, that and then you will feel overpowered and great. And... but it can maybe chuck more enemies at you.

JP  27:45  
 I 100% agree. I think they did something similar to Decent 2 edition Imperial assault. And just

Davey  27:53  
Haven't they done that now as well, or no? It made it co-op mode

JP  27:57  
It's not an app driven. But I think yeah, if it had the app that was just driving the bad guy. That would, I think be brilliant. Yeah.

Davey  28:04  
So talking of Fallout. I think that for me, going the other way was one of my biggest disappointments of a computer game that's gone into a board game. It just didn't just didn't fit for me. Maybe the theme was slightly there. But it just didn't have any oomph about it, had no depth. It felt more like a roll and move again. But yeah, it just, there was some cool equipment you could get. But it just ,it wasn't enough. Fallout is a very deep story-driven game. The cards once you had seen a couple of them, you probably kind of done with it. It didn't have any, a lot of them didn't have enough consequence. Or you didn't have enough weight behind your actions. So on that topic, how about?

JP  28:52  
Yeah, I, I owned it. I don't own it anymore, but I did own it. And actually, whilst I owned it, I enjoyed it a lot. What I didn't like about it was the fact it was a competitive game, which I felt didn't make sense. Until they released the expansion, they actually did a co-op scenario, which was a hell of a lot better. Just felt more fallouty than 'Let's have a co-op...'

Davey  29:18  
Did we ever do the co-op?

JP  29:18  
I definitely did. You did. Yeah. But it's the fact that you, you kind of play the game. And you go on quests, and it's all good. You know, I quite like the the cards that they had, and the system aroundthat, thought that was quite cool. I think it's a fair point. Once you've played it a few times, you might be seeing the same thing. You know, it's one of them. But the fact that yeah, you get to a point you're kind of getting into it, and then someone goes 'Yeah, I've got this and I've won.' Oh, okay. And it just ends like that. It's: Bang. End.

I maybe that's why I also didn't feel right is because of that competitive side of it doesn't click with the RPG or Fallout, you know, you're building your own story. You're trying to do this and then someone goes 'Yeah, I've ended the game'.

But I've won because I've got so many points. Yeah. And it's like, 'Well, but can we finish this scenario? Because it's kind of getting into it'. Yeah. But then might lead into the problem of: if it was fully... because it is fully co-op now with the Atomic Bonds I think expansion that, that they've released. Once you've done that scenario, how replayable is that scenario again? Don't know. I don't know what that adds. It might add a lot more flavour, more variability, but I did like it. But I very quickly got to a point where I'm done with this now. 

Davey  30:30  
Yeah,

Tambo  30:31  
I really enjoyed it, three times I've played it. Yeah, and I've never actually played the game, so from that perspective... 

JP  30:35  
Oh that's interesting

Davey  30:36  
You've never played Fallout?

Tambo  30:34  
Not really, played it for a bit, then like played another game because there's so many other different games to play. 

Davey  30:36  
It's a big time-sink. 

Tambo  30:42  
I knew about Fallout and I knew the concept of it. But you know, I really enjoyed it. Yeah. 

JP  30:48  
I recommend you do play it

Tambo  30:49  
I've tried I've, again, I've tried but I don't have the time, that's the problem. It's a time consuming game isn't it?

Davey  30:52  
It's quite daunting. It's one of those open worlds that you come to it and you're like 'Don't have time for this' Elden ring all over for me. But yeah, so another game, which is coming over from computer game aspect is Cyberpunk. There's been a lot of hoo-ha about that. The actual video game, let's face it, it didn't live up to its hype. And the actual boardgame seems to be flopping a little bit as well. It's CMON which means it's always a little bit overpriced. Because miniatures, lots and lots of miniatures usually. But what are our thoughts about that? 

JP  31:31  
It's hard. It's flopping when it's what, backed or earned 650k

Davey  31:39  
This is the thing. People have deemed it as flopping, I did think when I looked at it 'That's a lot of money still'. A lot of people'll back that.

JP  31:45  
It's because it's CMON, and CMON have, the big expectation is that CMON gets the IP's, don't they? And they draw in the kind of punters for these crowd funds and they do tend to break a million.

Davey  31:59  
Yeah, usually Yes.

JP  32:00  
But I think, and I looked at Cyberpunk, and I saw the announcement, saw the video and I'm 'Oh, this is interesting' because I really liked Cyberpunk the video game. I...

Davey  32:09  
I've dabbled again.. back... I've went back to it. And now they've released the new update. Yeah, it feels like a world and I've been enjoying it. Yeah.

JP  32:17  
Yeah. No, I mean, mate I played on the old Xbox where it was janky as anything. But to be fair, I kind of just got into the game. And it was it was great for me. Yeah. But I saw the video and I thought 'Oh yeah, this would be great'. And then, and this isn't me bashing CMON, it's going to seem like I'm bashing CMON. But as soon as I saw CMON were publishing it, it turned me off. One: because I know that their crowdfunding campaigns are just gonna be bloated full of plastic miniatures, you just know they're gonna be, and two:

Davey  32:49  
One thing that pissed me off with that is space as well. It's not even just... the miniatures that will look really cool and everything but it adds...

JP  32:53  
Can you put them in the box? One box?

Davey  32:54  
Yeah

JP  32:54  
Not 17 boxes? I don't want that. But yeah, number two was the whole Marvel Zombies stuff that has been going on like, you know, the shipping on this bad boy is going to be... because of all the boxes probably you end up getting is going to be quite high. Okay, is that CMON's fault? Or was that economy's fault? Well, I'm not going to get into that. But either or, I just... for me, it's like 'Nah, I'm done'. And maybe that's what people are picking up on. Kind of around the world and going 'You know what? I'm a bit more cautious about backing CMON games now'. Because I kinda know how they're gonna go.

Davey  33:30  
Other conversion games just continuing our topic. Like, which Company of Heroes selling very well? Yes. As a, as a comparison to that. 

JP  33:41  
Yeah.

Davey  33:41  
So maybe CMON have kind of, tardied their name a little maybe?

JP  33:46  
Maybe it's an interesting topic, isn't it? And probably stray into that one and talk about them for a few minutes. But it's Yeah, going back to your kind of theme of video games to board games. I mean, do you guys know much about the Cyberpunk game? 

Davey  34:00  
Yeah, I think

Tambo  34:01  
Well, I watched a video on it. I haven't played it myself. But no, it's an area control game. And it's not... It's actually based about gangs. Not actually... well its gangs and cities. And it's like a control area game. And you get a couple of actions and you can do, you can put down a hideout where you respawn your characters and you spend euros and you got secrets... 

Davey  34:21  
Eddies

Tambo  34:22  
Eddie's Yeah. And then you can have... you attack each other with a couple of upgrade cards, and you need to put a card out. So it's kind of like that when you go into the areas.

Davey  34:30  
It didn't seem what I thought it would be from being a Cyberpunk game. 

JP  34:35  
Yeah

Davey  34:35  
It seemed to go down quite a different avenue with it with the gang building and and everything else was you'd kind of think it'd be more, not so RPG but going out having your own adventure. Yeah, but maybe they thought 'Aww, that's too obvious, let's go away from that'. Whereas they probably maybe should have continued down it because keeping on the point of... it feels like it's got the licence of Cyberpunk. But it's nothing like the game. It's just taking the aspects from the game and putting them in and out. And it's just taken the name.

JP  35:09  
Who knows like, that, that game, we haven't played it. So it's really hard for us. It might actually, when you play it feel real good, thematic, and actually, it's quite nice they have done a different take on it, rather than going you know, you play as 'V' the main coaster, and you're gonna walk around, you're going to do things, and then people probably would just go 'Well, it's too much like the video', you know? So you're never going to win. So we're just gonna have a completely different direction with it

Tambo  35:32  
Plus might be quite hard to make a game like that on a board game. So yeah, yeah.

JP  35:35  
Absolutely. It reminded me when I did look at some of the elements of kind of a Blood Ragey kind of thing and the fact that it's area control. I mean, just... it's just what I got feelings off... but mainly because of area control.

Davey  35:53  
I found myself drawn to it. And then I was, I had to tell myself, is it just because it's a Cyberpunk theme, and I do enjoy that theme. And then the more I looked at it, I thought, yeah, I think that is it.

Tambo  36:05  
I think it's very colourful. It's yeah.

Davey  36:07  
It's just feeling like Yeah, I think that is the only reason that it's drawing me in. Keeping on... kind of that topic of 'does it have to play like the video game?', I've got Darkest Dungeon on the way. And that, it looks like they've tried to do a board game version of the computer game. Yeah.

JP  36:27  
I understand why, though. 

Davey  36:29  
It works. I feel like it's gonna work pretty well. And it looks really fun, been waiting on it for about two, three years now. 

JP  36:37  
Longer than Frosthaven. 

Davey  36:38  
Yeah, yeah, longer than Frosthaven. It was, it was meant to be out two years, November, I think. But they kind of kept bringing out more expansions and stretch goals. And I just think 'Send me the game. I want to play the main game first', I might actually buy them, but I want to play the main game. But to me, from what of the video I've seen and everything, it looked like they've tried to keep it very much in... tied up with that game universe and tied up with the mechanics

JP  37:07  
It's turn-based, right? Darkest Dungeon, it's kind of a turn-based.... 

Davey  37:10  
Yeah, it's kind of, yeah. So you, you basically... if you don't know what it is, you have formations of your characters, and then you have an enemy formation. And your... your characters all have different abilities, but formation actually is a crucial part of combat. So you'll have like a chain, which will pull the back character of their... the enemy line to the front. And when they're at the front, you either do, you can do more damage, or you can stun them and you can do certain things, or you could push their main damage dealer right to the back. And it brings this extra element in.

It's all 2D, not 3D at all

It also has this cool mechanic of each your character feels human, and they get traits, and I can make bad traits, afflictions yeah, or good traits. And these bad traits are sometimes you know, they'll start robbing your other party members. Or they'll, they'll get scared, and they'll, they'll change their formation in the line if something happens. And then it's got these very little cool bits, which I'm very intrigued to see how they bring that into the boardgame as well. Because the exploration side, they've I think they've done in quite a clever way in the fact that it's just a grid that you have a lot of tiles on, and you just flick the tiles over as you go along. And it'll tell you what type of event you're pulling, and what type of thing that you're coming across. So you don't actually play on like a big board per se. You kind of do it all, do it through your, the decks and the cards and this little tile system that make it quite streamlined. Which you're venturing over

JP  38:45  
I can see it working well. Having played Darkest Dungeon I can see them doing a board game adaptation, makes sense and that it could work well you know, providing it's not 6 hour...

Davey  38:56  
As a little one shot I'm really interested in, it's a little one shot. You just go around and play like a two hour game and play that dungeon. Yeah. And then and then you might, you might fail and then you have to come back and do it again.

JP  39:06  
And that appeals to me. Yeah, I've got enough campaigns.

Davey  39:10  
Yes. And that appealed to me, as a little one shot. One shot game, but I was quite intrigued at how close they tried to keep it to the computer game. 

JP  39:20  
Cool.

Davey  39:21  
So yeah, got that on the way. On the note of cardboard arcade? Do we own any of these games that have transferred over from computer games? Did it, was it the selling point for you?

Tambo  39:33  
Actually, it was a video game for me because I've got Resident Evil 2, which I am huge fan... I loved back in, back in the day, but then the remake was really good as well. And I saw...

Davey  39:40  
It was that tension! A Licker coming down from the roof.

Tambo  39:45  
Yeah, that's it. Yeah. When I first saw the Licker coming through the glass. That scared the crap... Yeah, but it was the firt time I'd been scared in the game. So it was like a bit of nostalgia for me. But um, yeah, so I bought the board game couple... about a week ago, and me, Rob and Chrisy got it to the table, and it was very very good. I quite enjoyed it

Davey  40:04  
Does it feel like Resident Evil?

Tambo  40:05  
Yes, very feel like Resident Evil because you think 'Oh, it's just another zombie shooter'. It's really isn't. Yeah, because you really got to be careful where you move and when you do your actions because it's not 

Davey  40:12  
Manage, you're managing your bullets. 

Tambo  40:14  
Yeah, you got to be careful of ammo. Definitely one of the major things. 

JP  40:17  
Survival horror

Tambo  40:17  
Yeah, I mean you got... it's horrible dice, which is like one in the six chance they can actually get. But with the handgun, with the handgun that is, and then you've got one hit symbol, which only pushes the zombie back. Yeah, it doesn't actually kill him. Yeah. So you've got to be very careful. Yeah. And when you move and you do all your 4 actions...

JP  40:19  
Did you roll well?

Tambo  40:35  
No, none of us really did, it's a punishing game in that sense, but you, you want to kind of, want to kill everything, but you really can't.

Davey  40:42  
You can't, yeah, yeah

Tambo  40:42  
You've got to do a lot of 'evade'

Davey  40:43  
Pick your battles

Tambo  40:44  
Yeah. So then when you do want to, when you do all your four actions, they instantly react, but when you do an attack action they instantly react, so it's not like Zombicide when they have the whole phase of the zombies coming in

Davey  40:53  
Yeah

Tambo  40:54  
They're always moving. And they're always coming round for you

Davey  40:56  
That's quite cool, that adds a bit more tension then doesn't it?

Tambo  40:59  
Yeah, and you got to be very careful, cos you've got two players on the same tile, not same square, but the same tile, and he's attacking, the zombies will move. So yeah, it's really good concept in that sense. And that's what I think Resident Evil was all about, isn't it? It's like, yeah, what more... you can't kill all the zombies. You're trying to shoot him in the head, you don't do you? For the boardgame to the game is spot on. I think. Yeah. Apart from the puzzelling aspect, which I didn't actuall....

It's come a long way, hasn't it? 

Yeah

Davey  41:12  
It has come a long way. Because I remember, in the past, it used to just be about the licence and the boardgamistas  had nothing to with it,

JP  41:28  
Yeah exactly

Davey  41:29  
 How about you, JP?

I've got a couple. XCOM, which we've talked about quite a few times on the podcast, because it's the first game that got me back into the hobby. So XCOM is a stress-filled two hours of your life. App, completely app driven. So if you don't like that, you're probably ain't gonna like XCOM, but it does give you a feeling of the tactical base management of XCOM, what it doesn't do is the battlefield element.

It'd be nice if it did that though

JP  42:00  
Yeah, so if you're looking for 'I want to, you know, use my squad and manoeuvre them around the maps and take the aliens down'. It's kind of condensed that into dice rolls, essentially creations of squad members. I understand probably why they've done it from a design perspective, because they're just trying to...

It'd be quite hard to do. You would have to pause everything and then be like, right now we're playing a different game.

It'd be a different game.

Tambo  42:24  
If I remember, you assign your soldiers to a mission, don't you? That's it. Yeah. You put three soldiers on a card. It's depends on funds...

Davey  42:32  
Yeah. And then yeah, and then you roll to see if you can do it. Yeah,

JP  42:35  
Usually you're doing it whilst...

Davey  42:36  
It's usually Kerley, isn't it? 

JP  42:39  
It's usually him.

He's always he's always in charge of the funds

Davey  42:43  
He's always going 'No you're not allowed that', 'But I need it', 'No, you're not allowed the money' 

JP  42:46  
It's usually a lot of tutting, isn't it? Yeah. Have to give up, give up the budget. It generates the,

Davey  42:54  
Kerley the Bursar

JP  42:55  
It generates the stress. 

Davey  42:57  
Yeah.

JP  42:57  
Which XCOM does, it always feels like you're up against it. And it really brings that in spades. That's number one. Number two, actually, and I didn't realise this and it probably isn't a direct tie in. So don't shoot me listeners. But Star Wars Rebellion. In '98 there was a PC game called Star Wars Supremacy in the UK, I think it was Rebellion in the US. And I think it's a similar, similar game to what Star Wars Rebellion is, now in boardgame fashion. I bought it as a kid because I nagged my Stepdad at PC World. And I said 'Like Star Wars, it's gonna be brilliant'. And he's like 'Oh go away' and, and then eventually, I think he relented and bought it. And I got it home, installed it, and played it and though 'Oh, this is shit'. I really didn't enjoy and you know, it was that moment of crushing disappointment when you buy a game. It was that, because it wasn't what I expected, but then now having got the board game, it's bloody brilliant. Because, again, I'm not sure it's direct copy. But I don't know, there's something about the board game and just sitting there with all of the physical pieces: The Deathstar, sending your missions out on those...

Davey  44:05  
Pretty chess-like...

JP  44:05  
 Sending leaders on those missions, and yeah, is a bit like chess-like it's that strategic...

Davey  44:10  
Cat and Mouse, but chess

JP  44:13  
Absolutley, I think it's a fantastic bloody game, and one that doesn't hit the table often enough but yeah, that based off, loosely based off the video PC game

Davey  44:23  
It's gone the other way this time, the boardgame is actually better than the computer game it's ment to be imitating

100% better, although you know I'm going from a memory of of me being what, 17? Yeah, so you know probably wasn't ready for it anyway.

There's a lot more coming out as well that... or have come out. Stardew Valley but none of us have played, but I hear that's ment to be really good co-op

JP  44:42  
Saw that at the Expo

Davey  44:43  
 Yeah, we couldn't get, couldn't get to play it because everyone wanted to play it, so yeah. Witcher, which Rob's got on the way. 

JP  44:50  
Rob's got his, I think it's coming this year, end of the year. 

Davey  44:54  
Nice

Tambo  44:54  
Looking forward to that one

Davey  44:55  
Street fighter, I guess an arena type game?

JP  44:58  
Yeah, Street Fighter miniatures game. Very, very good...

Davey  45:01  
Shut up and sit down did a review of it, haven't they? And they said it was really good, but you can't get anywhere.

JP  45:07  
Yeah, yeah, essentially. It was a Kickstarter-only, but it's supposed to be good fun. The mini's...

Davey  45:11  
Bloodborne I was really looking forward to play, cos Kerleys had it, but he sold it.

JP  45:12  
I think he looked at it, and looked at about seven expansions that came with it and just went, 'Nope',

Davey  45:22  
I think it was more because it was like golddust as well. So thought, 'Well, I'll just get rid of it instead'. This War of Mine, Adrian had, but he didn't enjoy because it was quite a doom and gloom game which...

JP  45:36  
Misery in a box

Davey  45:36  
 Yes. Which is understandable. Yeah. Cuphead dice game. Yeah. I've never even heard of this, quite intrigued by this

JP  45:46  
I only heard about this the other week. It looks fun. You know Cuphead's a great game. Not quite sure how the dice game is gonna feel like Cuphead,

Davey  45:56  
No, exactly. But uh, whether this is just going to be another name tacked on. I don't know.

Tambo  46:00  
What are we talking about? What's Cuphead?

Davey  46:02  
Cuphead?

Tambo  46:02  
Yeah??

JP  46:02  
A platformer

Davey  46:04  
A 2d platformer done... it was all hand animated. So it was actually a really cool story behind it. It was two brothers. And they pretty much invested their whole life into this video game. And they were obsessed with old, like old Mickey Mouse Disney style. And basically...

JP  46:07  
It's quickies style animation. Yeah. 

Davey  46:23  
And they basically quit their job to hand animate and self produce this, this game. And they put their whole life behind it. They nearly lost everything. And then it came out and they've won loads of  awards. It's been critically acclaimed. And it's a hard game

Tambo  46:41  
Generally all platformers are.

Davey  46:43  
It's quite quite a heartwarming story between these two guys

JP  46:46  
The characters are basically cups, like mugs and, like what you happy coffee, and we have eyes on and our bodies, and then they shoot bullets out their fingers.

Davey  46:54  
Yeah.

JP  46:55  
So they go 'boop boop boop boop boop boop boop'

Tambo  46:56  
Who thinks of this??

Davey  46:56  
Yeah! And it's about them making a deal with this devil and then trying to get their souls back? Yeah trying to get their souls back.

JP  46:58  
It's addictive. 

Davey  47:07  
It's a really good game. So I'm intrigued by that. Then there's a Company of Heroes. So I played Company of Heroes on the computer. And that, I thought that was really good RTS (realtime strategy). And all your units were quite impactful. They all have their own little abilities. So your stormtroopers, the players, the Germans, the axis had SNGs, and good close range, but they're really good at close range. But you had to get in there first. Lots of tactical elements using cover properly. And apparently the boardgame is a little skirmish game, implements all of that. But into a tabletop game. People are really amazed by this. I can see.

Tambo  47:47  
I looked at it and I'm already amazed by it. 

Davey  47:49  
Yeah, yeah, it's rising really quickly on BGG (Board Game Geek). So yeah, I think we will be checking that out. And stay tuned, we might talk about it in a future episode

Tambo  48:01  
I saw a video of it and it's where you look back when we were kids, you get these little green army men right, in the pack. Now you get to put on a board game, roll dice, and kill everyone, how cool's that gonna be?!

Davey  48:10  
They all have...

Tambo  48:11  
Their army tanks

Davey  48:12  
Proper abilities

Tambo  48:14  
Buildings you put your snipers on, looks really good.

Davey  48:16  
Production value did look very high as well.

Tambo  48:19  
But looking at what you get for it, it could be you might not quite be happy to pay for it, I think

Davey  48:23  
Yes. Yeah. Seems to get your value for money. Well, as I said, the reviews on it seem to be... 

JP  48:29  
Let's check it out. 

Davey  48:29  
Worth... worth it. Yeah. But it just definitely seems to be a bridge over that gap now. Yeah. And we're talking about quite... you're talking about Nemesis: Lockdown. So Awaken Realms, they've seemed to do it retroactively. And after they make a board game, they make a computer game version of it. Because I've seen that Nemesis is now on Steam as well. And that looks really good. So it's... it seems either industry here taking influence from each other, just coming together. So I feel less and less than a licence is just used to sell a game, a poor...a bad game now, you know?

JP  49:07  
I'll also, like you say to jump on that point, Slay the Spire, right? As a video game, that and I know they're doing a board game version of it as well. But when you play the video game, it's essentially a deck builder. Obviously, it's a computer game. And it feels like you're playing a board game in the way that it works. And it's just fantastic. So obviously drawing a lot of those influences from the boardgame space, putting into the video game space. And it's just really interesting to see the... these two worlds collide and blend together. Yeah, like we've never seen before, which is great.

Davey  49:40  
This has been Cardboard Arcade. I know we've missed quite a few. But let us know your favourite, what ones that you're excited to see. Anything that you feel like we should have talked about. And yeah, that's been us because we've got more to talk about. We've got question time.

Question time. So we've got a great question from James McCann, who messaged us on Facebook. Your biggest boardgaming disappointment, and your biggest surprise?

JP  50:15  
This is a belter of a question. Yes, good. It's a belter of a question if we'd prepared for this 48 hours in advance James! So thanks thanks! To be fair to James he sent it in many many weeks ago

Davey  50:29  
Working through a list but I just really liked this question.

JP  50:31  
It's a great question. If you'd like, I can tee this one off if you like. Disappointment for me... Food Chain Magnate.

Davey  50:41  
Booooo!

JP  50:41  
 Davey you're, you're upset about it because you bloody love it, it's one of your favourites. But for me, it's, it's too punishing. I'm not strong enough. I can't hack it, whatever, whatever you want to kind of say, it's not for me, I just, I just, I'd need to play it so many times to even get remotely good it, and I've just got other games I'd rather play. And that's this long 'n' short of it really. And so it was a game I thought I'd love and I didn't, so 'bye!'.

It's gone in the bin hasn't it?

It's... no, I've sold it because it's worth a lot of money. But the biggest surprise to me, I actually was gonna say Too Many Bones. Because that's just my stock answer for anything positive, but I'm actually going to change my answer because, maybe I knew I'd like Too Many Bones, hence why I bought it, it wasn't bought on a whim. But the one that actually surprised me the most was Dune: Imperium. And I just thought about that as we've gone through the episode. I bought Dune: Imperium after I've watched Dune in the cinema, and I was all in a buzz, going...

Tambo  51:43  
'I've gotta get it'

JP  51:42  
'Dune is just brilliant'. I've, you know, made me feel really good. I wanted to know more about the lore. And I heard people go, you know, Dune: Imperium was really good. And I'm like 'Yeah whatever, oh go on I'll buy it'. I bought it, played it, and then I saw the light, and actually was hella surprised how tight and awesome that game is. 

Davey  51:43  
It's amazing. It's a really good game.

JP  51:47  
And it just, you know, that's the word 'surprise'. It did surprise me. I thought it'd be good. But I didn't think it'd be brilliant.

Davey  52:14  
How about you Tambo

Tambo  52:15  
This is a difficult question, but my biggest letdown and it's gonna be a shock to everybody, because it's everyone's favourite... is Ark Nova. 

JP  52:22  
*Audible gasp*

Tambo  52:22  
Exactly! Well the letdown part of it is, I enjoy the game. But then I hate the scoring system and it punishes you. 

JP  52:29  
You're not alone in the world

Tambo  52:30  
But I hate it. And it's such a shame because it's like a Terraforming Mars kind of based game when you play your cards, and I enjoy playing the game during the game. And then when it comes to the end, I just get so frustrated, maybe a personal thing, maybe, but it just really infuriates me that the scoring part you end with a negative, I don't know why.

Davey  52:30  
I can understand it, though I do understand. It is... it doesn't feel good to play X amount of time. And then someone to say 'You've got minus points'

Tambo  52:55  
And then someone's got plus five point, they got a lot of points, but then I got minus sixty. Like, I've done something really badly wrong here. Yeah,

JP  53:00  
I think we chatted about this, didn't we T? And I think what we kind of boiled down to was when you try and compare your plays of Ark Nova, and you think 'last time I scored minus 10. And the time before that I scored minus 24. And then the time before that I won a 2' or whatever it might be, it's hard to compare the games back to back or even, you know, together

Davey  53:23  
Such a variable end

JP  53:24  
 And it's because of the way the game ends. And it can end really quickly, it can end really differently and it's all relevant to who's rushing the ending or getting themselves set up, ready to end the game. So it's hard to know. Am I doing better? Am I getting worse? You can't, you can't see that. 

Davey  53:43  
You can't your progress. It's quite hard to quantify.

JP  53:45  
So what's your surprise? 

Tambo  53:47  
Well, I'm pretty surprised recently and I, I'm gonna say it... is Takenoko. Just before this, I went round Becky's and Kerley's. We were playing a game today. And they said, we've got a game where you just have a panda and a gardener and you move round with it... Okay, I'll try it

JP  53:59  
 Did you say 'Gun' or 'Gardener'?

No, Gardener!

Oh right! 'Gardener'. I thought you said 'A Panda and a Gun'! Could have been interesting!

Davey  54:06  
Shortest game ever, panda's not getting away very quickly.

Tambo  54:10  
No, no, no gardener. And then it's like, an Emperor just bought panda, and you've got to look after him, like okay, let's just try that. And we put it to table and I'll tell you what it is just a lovely looking game for a start. And it was so much fun. It's just so basic. But I'll just move this panda around the board and building a garden and growing bamboos. And then you eat other people's bamboo and, and it's very simple victory points for eating.... Yeah, green bamboo, for growing the garden. There's three different ways of getting good VP's. And it was very, very simple as well. So I just thought instantly 'Oh, this is really good'. And, and I've already bought it. So yeah, I've got it cos some family are coming and I know my niece and nephew will love that. So that'll be played a lot.

JP  54:49  
Yeah, nice. What about you Davey?.

Davey  54:51  
So my biggest disappointment is Perseverance. 

JP  54:56  
Boooo!

Davey  54:58  
I'm not a massive fan, the second... episode two I enjoyed. It had a bit more depth and crunch. Episode One just didn't do it for me and I still feel like it's quite a lot of imbalance for such a game that seems a bit simple but...

Tambo  55:16  
JP's looking at you very evilly right now!

Davey  55:16  
 It's not my favourite Mindclash game. Episode Two, episode two did do it for me, but Episode One did not. So I've already told him that I'm not playing episode one again. 'I'm not enjoying this'.

JP  55:23  
'I don't wanna play!'

Davey  55:38  
Yeah, and my biggest surprise is Returned to Dark Tower. I thought it was gonna be gimmicky. You see this big tower there that ha,s that links to the app on your iPad.

Oh does it? Is it actually all connected?

It links to an app, and depending on what you do on your adventure, the tower reacts and spit skulls out into your part of the kingdom, or it puts a seal onto someone else's part. Which means they now have to start spending a resource to do their actions. And this tower spins around makes noises, chucks stuff out at you, and you go out off adventuring. And I thought it was just going to be a big gimmick. I was like, 'Oh, you know', because it's a remake of an old 1980s game. It used to use this little, like, lights flickering. And these like images that would spin on the tower. But they've implemented it into the app. So it's kind of video game-esque. Because you've got the app that will have all the campaigns on there. Very similar to Descent, which we'll talk about in another up and coming episode. But you go through, you get companions that come out, they build you up and it was just, it was a lot of fun. And it surprised me because I thought it was literally gonna be absolute tosh. But I was like 'I'll turn up' because I thought it did look cool. So I was like 'I'll turn up and play' and then it was like, really enjoyable. 

JP  56:53  
It's good when that happens though...

Davey  56:54  
Yeah, very good.

JP  56:56  
Brilliant question. 

Davey  56:57  
Yeah. Oh, thanks for that James. Good name!

The turn you've all been looking forward to, the penultimate turn. Just going to talk about what's coming up and what exciting things we've got in the works,

 In the calendar

In the calendar... 

JP  57:19  
Who's going first?

Davey  57:20  
Don't mind, I'll start this time. So I've got a couple of games, well a couple of games, I've got a lot of games coming up but the one I'm looking forward to most is... (yeah sorry, sorry Gemma!) is Barrage. Finally getting a four player game of it. I think it's the same as Bitoku, the two play game was good, but there's just not enough contention

JP  57:45  
Agree

Davey  57:45  
It's all about the map and where your waters go. Most boring theme ever, 'We're building dams, yay!'. Yeah. I'm gonna spend my day and build my dams! But yeah, I'm just looking forward to it. I think it's actually gonna, it's a really tight, lots of contention, it's going to be a really good game I think.

JP  58:07  
It's a mean game actually. I think it's the fact that you can just get in each other's way and steal the routes of water and direct the water flows to different parts of the map

Davey  58:07  
 There's going to be a lot of swear words.

JP  58:07  
A lot of people going 'You bastard, I was going to just use that to get power and now I can't do it' and all of that kind of stuff. It's a solid game.

I'm gonna miss you on the teach now though. You know how to play it!

I do know how to play it,  yeah,

Davey  58:32  
I know how to play it, but I'm going to be teaching them how I learned it, which is in little short bursts and segments. Have no conformity whatsoever

JP  58:39  
But I am celebrating my wife's graduation so, you know...

Davey  58:48  
It is a good excuse.

JP  58:49  
Sorry, 'Shell. She does listen 

Davey  58:55  
Well, how about you Tambo?

Tambo  58:56  
So the game I'm looking forward to is when we play Perseverance, chronicle mode. 

JP  59:00  
In your face, Davey!

Tambo  59:01  
 Yeah. That's gonna be quite interesting. Yeah, so that's that's the biggest game, it's the only game at the moment I'm going to. And also I'm looking torwards the extension to my house which we're getting a dining room, but we, this is related to gaming because it's going to be dinning room/gaming anyway. 

Davey  59:16  
Nice!

Tambo  59:16  
It's happening now. At the moment, so yeah, so it'll be a... that'll be good...and maybe if we our funds allow it, a nice gaming table in there as well. So a bit more space like you say

JP  59:27  
Who'd a thought, Tambo joining this game of Mansions of Madness all those years ago. And now having his own gaming room! 

Tambo  59:34  
D'you know a fact: I have... the only game I actually owned, which I never probably played, was Monopoly. And now I've...since I've joined this group, it's been four years, five years. I've got loads of games. 

JP  59:34  
You're welcome! Yeah, but less money. Yeah.

Davey  59:42  
Well, less arguing about monopoly as well.

Tambo  59:49  
Exactly.

JP  59:50  
And I'm looking forward to that chronical mode. I'll be honest, I'm intrigued to see how it just kind of strings those games together and gives you those like abilities and powers.

Tambo  59:58  
The carry on effect. 

JP  59:59  
The fact that you don't, you don't have to win the game to win the mode. And that kind of thing is interesting.

Would be good, if it was just Episode Two

It's kind of the point is that you're going through the the chronicle of the survivors

Davey  1:00:13  
I understand it thematically. Yeah, I do.

JP  1:00:16  
I don't know if it works yet, or whether it's any good, but we'll find out. Yeah. And me,

Tambo  1:00:23  
You JP

JP  1:00:23  
We've got Kanban or Kanban or however you want to pronounce it Kanban EV, which is a Vital Lacerda designed game, and that's the reason why I'm really excited to play it, because I've never played one of his designs. He's very well known for doing heavy interlocking connected mechanism kind of games that are very linked to theme. So Kanban is all about essentially work in a car... Again, boring theme. You work in a car manufacturer, right? You are getting designs for cars, you're getting parts for cars, you're building cars, you're testing cars, you're selling those cars, and all the while while you're going into these departments doing it, you've got the boss called Sandra and she kind of walks up and down the departments and goes 'Ooh, you've not trained very well, have you?' and she starts like docking you, and and you know, being a bit like you know, middle management

Do you get someone dressed up as that person in the actual...?

Yeah that's, that's a mandatory, that someone has to be Sandra. No, she's kinda like the AI that gets in your way 

Davey  1:01:27  
Thought you were gonna call her 'Karen'!

JP  1:01:31  
But she is known for being a bit of a bitch. And yeah, I'm just interested to play it. Ben's, Ben's gonna kind of bring it around he's just recently got it. I... I've been so close to buying that probably about six times, and I've never, I've never pulled the trigger but now I don't have to, so Iooking forward to that.

Davey  1:01:50  
This is when you... it plays a lot like Food Chain Magnate, and you want to throw out the window.

JP  1:01:58  
We'll see, We'll see.

Davey  1:01:59  
Yeah that sounds good. And with that, our final turn is wrapping up and victory points are about to be scored. I'm winning. Thanks, everyone for listening. Please like, subscribe, and review on your podcast player of choice. If you want to get in contact with the show on our socials you can either email us on players@whoseturn.co.uk Check out our Facebook page Whose Turn Is It Anyway Podcast, our Instagram page @whosetur podcast. And finally our tiktok @whoseturnisitanyway. We'll be back again in two weeks with another episode so until then, Whose turn is it?

Transcribed by https://otter.ai