JP 0:26
Welcome to Whose turn is it anyway podcast all about our gaming group and being a cardboard hoarder. I'm JP who's not the current first player, but filling in for Davey whos feeling under the weather. And I'm joined by other players, Adrian and Kerley, as we return for another round of niche number ones. How we're doing, chaps?
Kerley 0:42
Very good. Thank you.
JP 0:43
Yeah, shame about Davey, bless 'im.
Kerley 0:46
It happens, it happens.
JP 0:48
So yeah, we have an unplanned, pretty much unplanned episode. So pretty much like every other episode, but yeah, there's actually no change we're always last minute, we're all thrown in. But we're talking about board games, which we can do forever. So again, anything happening in your lives, that's of notable interest?
Adrian 1:06
Nothing for me just life got in the way of living I think is the best way to put it. So yeah, I've kind of been out of the board gaming group for a few weeks now. Sort of squeezed in whatever I can. But ya know, for me, it's kind of been a bit, only a handful of board games over the last sort of month or so for me, but you know, these things happen. So that's me. Absolutely.
JP 1:26
How about you Kerley, been on holiday?
Kerley 1:28
Yeah, I've been on holiday kind of more like off work. My friend's been visiting from Korea. I believe he's now a listener. So hello, James, if you're listening. Hi, James. Thanks for listening. So yeah, he's been over, staying at mine for the last 10 days. We went to Cornwall for a few in between. But it's nice because I've been introducing him to some boardgames. And I've got him hooked. So another one bites the dust.
JP 1:47
I've heard a lot.
Kerley 1:48
Yeah, quite a lot. We played boardgames every night.
JP 1:51
Every night. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.
Adrian 1:53
We don't have a TV in this house. You must play board game.
JP 1:57
What is this thing you speak of?
Kerley 1:59
We didn't watch a single episode of anything.
JP 2:01
Sounds amazing.
Kerley 2:02
Yeah.
JP 2:03
Kinda jealous. Now. There we go. We returned back from France. Literally last weekend. So going through the holiday blues pretty much. Especially when you have one day off in between the holiday and going back to work, which just sucks. Yeah, let's get the violins out and cry for us now. Shall we move on and talk about games? Let's move on? Let's cheer ourselves up. Yeah. Cool.
So let's talk about hex, what's been hitting the table? What have we been playing? So Adrian, I'm gonna start with you. Because you said you're not been playing much? No, but what have you been playing?
Adrian 2:43
So I've got quite a few games off of the shelf of shame, as it were, or like off my bucket list of games that I wanted to play. But I thought I'd talk about Raiders of the North Sea, I'm very late to the party on that one I appreciate, but just another worker placement game that sort of shows you how much you can do with that basic core mechanism. Have you guys played Raiders?
JP 3:02
No, I haven't heard about it never played No.
Adrian 3:04
So essentially, what you do is there's different coloured workers, you own one worker at a time you put it down into the spot, and depending upon the colour that you put in, that will give you a different bonus. And then where there is another one, you pick it up, and you get the bonus off of that one. And you do that every round. So you put one down, and you pick one up, again, colour bonus, the one you put down, and the colour bonus of the one you pick up. And it's just it sounded like, oh, that sounds quite cool. But man, there's a load of strategy in it. I don't really want to put that down there because that means they'll get the bonus of picking it up. And I know they want that. But I also know they want that thing as well. And so you're kind of really watching for what they want. So you kind of do that to start off with. And then slowly because it's Viking themed, you slowly go raiding, which means you put down your coloured worker, and again, only certain coloured workers can go. So if you want to read a harbour, you can kind of put the lowest value worker if you want to, if you want to raid like the big inland village, fortresses, I think they're called, you have to use the highest value workers. And then once you've raided it, you then pick up the other colour worker that's available. And what it does is it slowly shifts the low value workers out for the high value workers, but they're only high value workers in the sense of raiding, they're actually quite often low value workers at your home base. And it's just a it's a marvellous mechanism. And again, every time I say to myself, I've got too many worker placement games, I play another one. And realise, actually, I could have a whole library of worker placement games and I think I'd still be happy with them because it's just yet another little twist that you know, we've played Architects and we've talked about what Shem Phillips has done with that to worker placements before and just all of these like little twists on worker placement so just, I find them amazing and it's just another game that I sort of thought, 'heard lots about it, I'll give it a go'. It's another worker placement but whatever, and just come away from it going 'yeah, it's different to every other worker placement I've played by quite a bit.
JP 4:54
Yeah, I love the fact. I mean I love worker placement. I think a lot of people love worker placement games. I mean, again, how many times can we say worker placement?
Yes. Record. Worker placement.
But no, it's it's, I just love when they twist that mechanic. And rather than just be 'I put a dude down, I get a thing your go'. It's like you say you put a dude down, you get a thing, but you also get something else because they're different colours or whatever it is. I love the subtle twist. And yeah, I can imagine that that kind of easily breaks your brain but makes you think about the players and the interaction of the other players a lot more rather than just 'I'm blocking you ha!'
Adrian 5:31
Yeah. You still ,you... In this one, you're almost not blocking someone, what you're doing is you're giving them an opportunity. And see,
It's the reverse, isn't it?
Yeah. And instead of thinking 'what am I blocking' up the board is, but your home base, which is you play the first four or five turns easily without really like raiding or anything like that. You really are thinking about what do I want not want to give my opponent, as such, rather than what do I want to block? It's just that interesting twist. Yeah, on that play on that mechanism?
So is it the same publishers, Architects, it's all the same?
Yeah. Shem Phillips and Garfield games. Okay, yeah, so it's got the same art style. So Raiders of Scythia was the kind of natural evolution of it in took some of the most of the Raiders of the North Sea mechanic and put in some of the expansions. Yeah, but totally different art style. Yeah. And I wasn't so taken with that art style. So that's why I decided to get raiders and we'll see what came up on a sale. And I was just like, Yeah, I'll grab that. And, and yeah, it's got exactly the same art style as Architects and the designers in the...
JP 6:31
Mihajlo does the art?
Adrian 6:32
I don't know. I just know. I love it. Oh, yeah.
JP 6:34
It's got a very unique art. style. I think it is. I might be wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, guys. But yeah, it's, I do like it's that kind of cartoony style, I think it's the same as Endless Winter. That's coming out.
Adrian 6:48
Yeah. It's kind of got, I don't know if it the same artist or not, but certainly got that same feel of sort of, it's, it's cartoony but it's got a sort of a classical twist on that cartoony look, it looks like it fits in with like Vikings and medieval and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, no, it's, so I really enjoyed it amongst all the games that sort of came off the shelf of shame. It was the one that sort of made me go, yeah, no, I can still have more room for these kinds of games in my collection.
Kerley 7:14
I really, I really, really like worker placement games, and anything that can put I say, a little twist and maybe make you think a little bit more maybe thinking about other people a bit more always just adds more depth to the game, which is always a positive. Like, you know, I'm coming round to the Lord's of waterdeep we were talking about, how it's really good, but it is actually quite low level.
Adrian 7:35
It's the base level for worker placement. Yeah, right. And then everything else, I think, like there's quite a few games that can be a bit like that where you're just like 'I'm blocking the space'. And that's all it's really doing. But yeah, I think there's so many people now that have managed to put a twist in or do something different, or whatever. So...
Well, you've definitely make it sound more interesting, because I've heard of Raiders for a long time, but I've never really been intrigued by it, to even give it a try. But now you've explained some of the core mechanics on that. Oh, yeah. Come on. I'd enjoy that.
Well, I'd heard it was a comparison to Champions of Midgard. Dice chucking thing, and yes, they're both Viking themed, but I would say they're very, apart from coming out roughly the same time, and being Viking themed. I think there's quite a bit of difference between the two. So yeah, we'll have to get that to the table some time, I really enjoyed my playthrough of that
Kerley 8:22
Yeah, count me in
JP 8:23
I'm keen, how about you Kerley?
Kerley 8:23
I've played a whole plethora of new games, as we said at the start. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it to be fair, they're they're all games for me trying to introduce my friend some, you know, favourites of mine that I think he'd like. Yeah, but the, probably the pick of those I would talk about is Gugong. He absolutely loved it. It's based in China. But it's basically around when a new Emperor took over and they outlawed bribery. And the whole of the system was based around bribery at the time, and when the new emperor came in and outlawed it, they had to find inventive and clever ways around that new law that had come in. And the new law, and basically what they actually did was they would say, I give you a gift Adrian of apples, and you give me back a golden statue. Yeah, means you're bribing me, basically. Yeah, yeah, they're exchanging gifts. And that's, that's the idea behind the game. And apart from the fact that it's not work placement, it kind of is because you've got cards instead of workers. And these cards have a different value on them depending on the gift that you're giving. And the idea is that you go to a space down on the board, and you have to swap one of higher value in your hand for a lower value one on the board itself. And if you do that, then you get performed the action of that space, which is essentially you visiting a large land and doing something in those areas. And then that way, you've taken the one up from the board where you've swapped it that becomes your hand for next time. So it becomes an interesting kind of rotation where you don't want to go too silly and go too hard because then you're next hand'll be rubbish for next turn. And it just, yeah, there's a lot of complication though. And a lot of kind of deep thinking. But the actual to teach it is really easy, which is one of the reasons why I selected it. But just really good fun, really satisfying. And I love the theme, like the artworks amazing. The theme in Feudal sort of China is just yeah, really interesting to me. So you guys have played it to?
I own it, so yeah, I've played it quite a few times, think I introduced you to it?
I think you probably did back in the day.
JP 10:35
And you've played it Adrian?
Adrian 10:36
I just played it recently, with yourself, Kerley. And I'd kind of done a bit of research because it'd been on my list at one point to buy and the bit that I'd never really seen in a very small bit of like, 'Oh, let's see what this game is about' is the idea that your your hand that you, all the cards you pick up off the board becomes your hand next turn. And as soon as you realise that, as soon as you sort of... like, now this game makes sense, like, because it is that I literally want to trade where I can just one up, I want to trade, you know, I want to take a seven off the table and put an eight down, ideally, because then you're getting the most out of it. And so yeah, I found that that made the game. Otherwise, I'd say it's kind of a bit of action point and a bit of worker placement or card placement in an area. But that idea of you are setting up your next turns hand, are you happy to have a rubbish next turn for a good this turn kind of thing, or doing exactly what you want? Or do you have to play that little bit of a, this isn't exactly what I want, but it'll give me a much better hand next turn. And I found that little puzzle was the lot of the crux of that game and where the, where the puzzle came into it.
Kerley 11:41
And I like the little extras that it throws in as well. And we won't go into all of the rules now. But you've got you know, if you if you swap over and and at the end of the turn your hand has certain numbers, you get extra workers. You know, you go down and you trade. And that allows you to have different type of worker and it allows you to have more cards in your hand, which effectively gives you more turns. It's just there's a lot below the surface on that game. I always think considering the fact that it doesn't take very long to teach. Especially because my friend who I taught it to had barely played a board game ever. I mean, it was Lords of Waterdeep I mean, it literally went from I play games when I was a kid to Lords of Waterdeep, to Gugong, to Terraforming Mars in the end, you know, so it was just a... yeah.
JP 12:22
Didn't wheel out On Mars then?
Kerley 12:24
Not on Mars just yet. It took me two games, and I'm still like 'Okay, I got some victory points for that. I got no idea how...'
JP 12:31
Friends stay with you for nearly two weeks and you've got them to a Lacerda game.
Kerley 12:35
That would be the aim. Yeah, well done.
JP 12:37
No, it's a cracking game. As I say, I own it, it's great fun. I think the puzzle is what interests me every time with that whole hand management. As you guys have said, it's just Yeah, it's interesting. And what I've really enjoyed about Gugong when we played a lot of it over lockdown, obviously not during lockdown when we couldn't see each other, but during when we could, once the rules are relaxed, and we play quite a lot didn't we? I know 3,4,5,6 games with Becky as well. And they were just like really competitive. Yeah, like score-wise ended up being so close like 'aahhhh might have this', 'Git, you won!'. But yeah, I just really enjoyed the kind of get into a game and and kind of get into that level with that game. And yeah, a lot of fond memories of Gugong need to try the expansion Yes. Panjun or whatever it's called.
Adrian 13:28
Yeah, that's loads of little expansions, like little modules Yeah, yeah. Interesting
JP 13:33
Puts the you know, you got the stairs on the path to the Emperor. So yeah, puts little obstacles and gates in the way that you know, randomises. It's got this whole peasants revolt thing that's going on. It's quite interesting. But yeah, I love to have a go
Adrian 13:51
How about yourself?
JP 13:52
Me? Obviously, I've been in France. So we took a few games on holiday. With Rob, obviously from the podcast as well. And it wasn't just me and Rob, go to France. We were with our families. I played, we played a bit of Dice Throne, Marvel Dice Throne. We played a bit of Imperial Assault, we managed to bring all of these boxes. Because we drove there we had the boot space. We brought all that, we only played it once.
Sorry kids, you can't bring the bucket and spade, I've bought Imperial Assault instead!
But the game we played the most of was Netrunner. So, and this was a bit of a surprise for me. Because you probably heard if you listen to the very very first podcast episode that we did, or maybe even episode one. Netrunners a game that I got Ian into the hobby. I got Rob into the hobby with Netrunner, and it's kind of one of my old school games that I've very, very fond memories of and collected a lot of cards, realise that never played them and then sold it, sounds familiar with Marvel Campions. But I haven't sold that. But for those that don't know what Netrunner is, Netrunner is a cyberpunk kind of dystopian future card game, asymmetric card game where one of you plays like a runner or hacker, and the other one plays as a corporation. And the kind of the point of the game is that the corporation has these agendas, these cards that they're trying to advance and score. And and once they get to seven agenda points, they win and the hackers then trying to break through their servers and steal those agendas, and basically score the points that way. So you've got this very asymmetric puzzle of the corporation trying to create this maze for the runner to try and not get through essentially, and the runners then kind of installing like resources and hardware and programmes to try and circumnavigate these firewalls that the the corporation's laying down. It's just a bloody... I love it. And I kind of regret selling it back in the day. And I watched the Shut up and sit down recent video on it, which is 'can you get int Netrrunner in 2022?'
Adrian 16:00
I saw that. Yeah.
JP 16:01
And I just thought I'd give that a watch. And I just thought, I really want to play this again. But it really just like spirals.
Kerley 16:09
What was the verdict that they gave?
JP 16:09
Yeah, well, because because of it's been reignited by project NISEI. So whenever it was... 2017? Netrunner died, got abandoned by Fantasy Flight Games. And they kind of kind of continued it as a community. Fan, charity, not charity, but a fan, Coop, nonprofit nonprofit, that's the word I'm trying to use... organisation to keep the game alive and keep people playing the game. And I knew about it at the time, and I just thought 'It's dead, it's going to go away'. This thing's gonna last six months, and away we go. But kind of just looking into it and researching it and looking at actually what they've done over the past four years, it's been quite impressive to be honest. And, and they've kind of redesigned a new kind of core set that you can buy. And you can kind of bolster that with some of the original cards from the other core sets, the revised core sets that you got, and I kind of have just the desire to have a smaller collection of it. And that's it. Yes, keep that. And that's the game of Netrunner that I can just wheel out. It's a bit of deck building in there that we can do, but not be this big array of cards and stuff that I'll probably never ever play. So that's what I've done. So I've kind of bought two packs. You have to buy your own tokens because it doesn't come to that anymore like the old core sets do. And just give it a go. And we played a lot on holiday it was a blast, honestly loved just running servers. And that, I think there's a good memory where Rob managed to actually kill me, he played the corp most and you've managed to do, play some Jinteki cards, which you'll know Kerley, having played a lot of Netrunner, where you kind of bait the runner into traps and kill them. And he managed to pull something off, which was pretty good. And he's very happy with himself. Actually that was my favourite game even though I lost. Because it was kind of like, it got competitive. Yeah. Got to a place where now this is competitive. This is fun. Yeah. So yeah.
Kerley 18:07
This is really a game similar to, I guess, Ian, is the fact I got into it through Ian because I knew Ian before I knew you, of course. And he introduced me to Netrunner, my mate JP, who I didn't know at the time, has introduced me to Netrunner. And we played the hell out of it. We bought a whole big bunch. And we played it a lot, I think I overdone to be honest. And I ended up when Ian moved out because we used to live together at the time. When he moved out. He bought me out of the the Netrunner set. But I'm not saying I'll regret it because I haven't played it and I haven't wanted to play it, but now you're talking about it. It's making me like 'Oh, I loved that game'. Yeah, I really do. It's one of my favourites. It's my favourite card game, and I've played them all. Well, I haven't played your Pokemons and Yu-Gi-Oh stuff but...
JP 18:55
Well, stop making wild claims!
Adrian 18:56
I was gonna say 'I've played them all apart from two of the three most popular sets'
Kerley 19:01
Yeah, but...they're for kids, Adrian
JP 19:06
Oooooohhh, no! You didn't go there!
Kerley 19:08
Deliberately!
Adrian 19:09
Please post all complaints directly to....
Kerley 19:14
But yeah, anyway, really looking forward to giving that a go. So I might even be tempted to invest a little bit as well...
JP 19:19
Yeah, I've got a couple of sets now, we can do a little bit of light games and get back into it. So yeah,
Adrian 19:24
Anyway, Shut up and Sit down strikes again. Yeah. Thanks, everybody.
Kerley 19:27
Responsible for a lot of money.
JP 19:31
Cool. Let's get on to the main event
So let's talk about the main topic of the day, which is niche number ones, Adrian, it's good to have you on this episode because you're the brainchild of niche number ones for the first round.
Adrian 19:51
I was, yeah
JP 19:52
So it's really cool to have you back for the second round.
Kerley 19:55
You can tell by his smile he's really proud!
Adrian 19:57
I am! It's on my CV at this point.
JP 20:01
'What have you done?' 'Niche number ones, what have YOU done?' But we're back with a whole new set of niche number ones if you don't know what the hell we're talking about I'm gonna ask Adrian, what's a niche number one? It's your baby.
Adrian 20:13
How do you... I described it last time a a top 10, apart from it's just a top one but the categories are useless and no use to anyone really, it's just, find a very obscure thing to say oh, what about 'what's your favourite game in this very obscure category' and then we come up with it and hopefully have a bit of a chat with it and give you some ideas even if, even if the category is obscure hopefully the answers we give gives you a little bit of taste of something that you know, you might want to play.
JP 20:37
That's so much better than what I was gonna say.
Kerley 20:40
You know, it's like every everyone does the top 10s And your top threes, it's quite unique and interesting. Yeah,
Adrian 20:45
It's like a different...
JP 20:45
I really enjoyed recording the last episode and I wasn't supposed to be on this one, I don't think you were, we're you?
No, no, I wasn't.
No so I think me and Kerley are kind of stowaways on this episode just because of the last minute shuffle around. But yeah, I'm really pleased to be doing this. I enjoyed it a lot. Should we crack on with the first one? Right, what's your favourite game that has no VPS or victory points?
Kerley 21:11
Well, with this one I can cheat a little bit because there is kind of a whole genre of game that doesn't have VPS that I love which is, if you want to say as a genre, as Co Op games yeah so for me Spirit Island, Mansions of Madness, all these type of games I absolutely love and they don't have VP's so yeah, I'll go ahead and claim Spirit Island if we want.
Adrian 21:33
I thought you were going to claim 'All coop games' then!
Kerley 21:35
I was like 'Ah Ha!!' I got in there first!
Adrian 21:38
That's ruined that...
JP 21:40
Now suddenly realising this question maybe not be that niche, might not be niche enough but there we go...
Kerley 21:45
Well, still an interesting thing to talk about. Because most do, don't they?
Adrian 21:49
Talk about, talk to us about Spirit Island for a second then
Kerley 21:51
I won't go into too much details I think we did a couple of episodes but Spirit Island is just absolutely fantastic sort of game where you basically... you play a whole bunch of different spirits fending off colonial invasion from you know, when you do the more difficult side of the game you end up having the invaders or like the Swedish, the English, the... I forget what other nationalities are are Danish, I think maybe different countries during that kind of 1700s or 1600s exploration
Adrian 22:21
This is my land!
Kerley 22:22
Yeah, that's it. You're a, an isolated island that has it's own indigenous population, and you're their spirit Gods basically, and, and use your powers and your cause to fight them off. I mean, to say there's good mechanics in that game is an absolute understatement, because it just feels so satisfying to like, play your cards and get money and swap cards and get new cards. It just feels like yeah, just like a journey from the start. When you're really struggling to like, yeah, I get that card now really powerful. It's like it's, and it's quite challenging as well, especially with a different mode. So I think keeping it fresh is going to be Yeah. Easy. Nice. So yeah, looking forward to getting the expansions to that. And given that a go as well
Adrian 23:05
There's plenty of expansions.
Kerley 23:07
Well, you know, they've got kind of two or three of them already
JP 23:10
You're gonna get them all.
Adrian 23:12
I found with that, because we played at the 24 hour board game event, what I wasn't expecting is actually how much conversation. Some coop games, you kind of just play your own little bit and you're like, right, you can deal with over them, I'm gonna deal with over here, there's quite a lot of 'right, let's stop and, like, analyse the board a little bit and work it out'. Right. 'Okay, have we got this part of the map covered? And we got that part of the map covered?' And yeah, I was just really impressed with that level of actually cooperative conversation that was naturally built into the game, I wasn't expecting it. So I think it's great choice.
Kerley 23:39
Well, because it's so asymmetric in a way that it's... every one has like almost like a key purpose, a strength so that you can't do everything on your own. So I think I played a defender at the time. And if you're an attacking type, and it's really like, dumbing down the way you play this game. But like if you play an attacker, you can't defend your own lands, mostly. And so you have to rely on other people to... Like you said, heavy on interaction but yes, yeah.
JP 24:05
Right, you Adrian?
Adrian 24:06
I had the same thought was, I listed like a whole load of coops off and then sort of looked at my other board games that weren't cooperative and kind of went, what do I do here? And I'm just gonna mention, I say, I'm gonna be like a little bit, sort of, say, I'm gonna write coops off then because otherwise I could just list all the coops and just say Tsuro. If you've not played, so you move a little pebble around, you put a tile down, the tiles kind of got some wiggly lines, you move your Pebble, which is a dragon along the lines, and next person around puts theirs on, and it's the last dragon, last pebble on the board that wins. So everyone else eliminates themselves by putting stuff down and ending up wandering off the board by accident. And yeah, there's no victory points in it. It takes like 15/20 minutes to play. Like, max. If you sit there and study half the cards that you've got in your hand that you're putting on that little board. And yeah, it's just, it's a real simple game. I know it's not for everyone. I've seen a few people to sort of try and go, what's the game here? And I can kind of understand that it's not... It's not a high-brow game, that's for sure in the sense of really analysing everything, but it is the first one that I thought, oh, that's competitive, but doesn't actually have any level of victory points, because even certain other games I thought of it was like, Well, best of three. And I thought, well, is that victory points? If I win 2-1, have I won on two victory points to one? Yeah, that's the only game I could think of that was competitive that I've played plenty of and loved.
JP 25:30
You could cheat and say, well, the game doesn't call them victory points, it calls them prestige points, or it calls them...but we all know they're VPS. Yeah, I'll be quick on mine. Too Many Bones. I mean, it's one of my favourite games full stop. And it doesn't have victory points. So there you go, easy. Done. Wanna know more? Listen to Episode Four.
Adrian 25:52
You haven't mentioned much on this. Could you tell me more?
JP 25:56
Episode 4. I did a whole episode on it. I'm very proud of it. It's very good. Davey has given us his suggestions. Okay. As he can't be here today. He said Chess. Okay, it make sense. Yeah.
Kerley 26:10
Not a game for me.
Adrian 26:11
There is points in chess, I mean, I'm going to be mean, and say
Kerley 26:14
You're gonna pull the points card?
Adrian 26:15
I'm gonna... 'cos there's points for if you have like a stalemate, or if you run out of time, every piece has a number of points. So you score points at the end. So the ultimate win condition is not around victory points, but like your, your stalemate win condition is around points.
Kerley 26:28
I think, probably a, I think...
JP 26:31
Controversial
Kerley 26:32
Maybe count it as one that does count, but
Adrian 26:36
I mean, I love chess. I've played a lot of chess, as I said before, so like yeah, as a game love it, but might have to partially veto...
JP 26:49
Yeah. Suck it, Davey! Shall we go on the next one?
Kerley 26:53
Yeah, do it
JP 26:54
Favourite game you don't own? So shall I start with this one? My favourite game I don't own. And I didn't realise this until I had a games day at my house and it's Concordia. And I just loved playing that. I just... why don't I own this game? And the answer is because I don't need to, because two people in the group have it, that's the answer that I tell myself. But just one of the things I love about the game is it's just rapid. Like, yeah, you play the card. You do the thing, next, you get on with it. Play the card. Do the thing now and what yeah, what was it five players?
Adrian 27:31
We had five players
JP 27:33
Yeah, in two hours, roughly maybe a bit longer. I love it. I just love that game, it's fun.
Adrian 27:38
I really enjoy that. And I've played it a lot at two and three player as well. And I've played it now a couple of times at five player, it just scales really well. You just need different maps because a two a five player map is not going to do a two player game. Yeah, but as long as you buy a couple of spare maps, there's plenty in there for people
JP 27:56
Love it. Brilliant game. I think we talked about it in the pod before. But yeah, another Euro game set in the Mediterranean trading stuff, doing stuff, building stuff, but it's the hand management that's the best.
Kerley 28:10
It's a really satisfying game to be honest. It's really good. It's one of my favourites as well.
Adrian 28:14
When you look down at the board, and there's all the houses out and you got all your workers out and all that lot, and the board just looks full. And you think yeah, we've done well here.
Kerley 28:21
I remember I was really pleased myself because I think you fancy yourself at that game. And I drew with you
JP 28:25
Again, that was a day where you drew about four games. Played six or seven games and you two drew on four of them.
Kerley 28:34
Yeah
JP 28:34
And then I can't remember if you lost out on the tie condition.
Kerley 28:37
Yeah, I did on nearly all of them. I mean, a metaphorical draw, but literally lost.
JP 28:43
Yeah, it's like 'Is your name Kerley? If so you lose the tie'.
Kerley 28:46
Yes, that's pretty much
JP 28:48
Okay, what about you guys? What's your category?
Kerley 28:51
Yeah, there's loads of games actually, that I don't own that I absolutely love. And the reason being is because we've got such a good group here, which I would advise anyone to have as well,
JP 29:00
Saves you buying things
Kerley 29:01
Well, exactly, but more than that, it's good friends you know? But, you know, saves me a bit of cash as well. It's never gonna hurt. But no, I've got a whole bunch of them but if I had to say favourite, I mean most of them you own JP, it's you who's got all my favourites and I really want to buy them and I'm just like ' I don't need them!' But I would have to say... oh my god... I'm gonna have to make a decision. Okay, I'm just gonna have two, you can tough, tough... I think basically. It's Eclipse and Nemesis
JP 29:28
I knew Nemisis would be
Kerley 29:29
They're just... right, totally different games, but I love them equally in different ways.
JP 29:34
Best thing I read today on BoardGameGeek on the Eclipse forums... The two species expansion packs that are coming next year, early hopefully next year, and they have two species per pack. Adds more player counts to the game, like we need a 10 player game?!
Adrian 29:56
What kind of size table are you gonna have to fit that...?
Kerley 30:00
Can't Wait.
JP 30:01
Have to get back in your car-port together. Again, this might sound a bit weird to the listeners going back into your car-port during the COVID days. Kerley's got a car-port we were gaming outside he had these... was it your...
Kerley 30:15
Plastering table
JP 30:16
Plastering tables, and you the big kind of green felt thing you used for Warhammer back in the day that you could probably comfortably get 10 people around. Yeah, that was great, great.
Kerley 30:27
Great times, but it was it was bloody cold on some of those days.
JP 30:31
We were pushing it, the summer was up until about October wasn't it yeah? It's getting a bit nippy now. Anyway. Yeah.
Kerley 30:32
I would say those two but I am struggling to separate those two to be fair.
JP 30:43
I mean, they're solid choices. Yeah, I would say that, I own them.
Adrian 30:48
Mine is one that Kerley owns, and a couple of other friends I've got outside the group own. It's Architects of the West Kingdom, mentioned it before. There were plenty of big games I thought about, Too Many Bones and Nemesis and Eclipse and a whole load of other ones that we've played, including Spirit Island, which just had one game, and I'm already like, can't wait for the next one. But I think Architects is one of those where I've played it quite a few times now. And I always look forward... when it turns up on the group or when someone says, I fancy playing that I'm always like, Yes, I'm there. Let's do it. It's just it's a simple enough game. But it's got just a nice set of different strategies, depending upon either the starting character you have or what's available out there from buildings and stuff like that. And it's just, yeah, just breezes along. Again, it's, you know, it's, I think we mentioned it slightly before, but you have a whole load of workers, it's worker placement with like 20 workers, something like that, and you put them out and then you can round up those workers, send them to prison, for no apparent reason and get the money for it. And then someone has to go to the prison to basically get them back to get their money for it as well or whatever. And it's just, it's just a nice different twist. But it's just yeah, it just breezes along. I really enjoy the game.
Kerley 31:56
Unlike most worker placement games, I think it plays really quickly. I don't even know why, I can't put my finger on why but I think it may be because you've got so many workers, you know, agonising so much over every decision, but it seems to play really quickly. And that's what I love about I think that's a key part of every game for me, because that whole AP waiting 20/30 minutes to come round to your turn is what really turns me off.
Adrian 32:18
Yes, you know, each worker you put there you normally gain... so for each...when you put a worker down, for each worker you already have there you gain a bonus essentially, so if it's a third work of yours that you've put in that area, you gain three stone, whereas if it was the first you gain one stone, and so I find that my AP disappears and I do get a little bit of AP occasionally, I have noticed! But you know, it totally goes out the window because I'm thinking well they're gonna get rounded up and sent to prison as soon as I put a third one there. But I've got two there already, like I might as well put a third one down now get the stone and then deal with the fact that they've need to go and get them
Kerley 32:52
Because it's more obvious what the correct decision is
Adrian 32:54
Yes. And you don't feel so bad over making a wrong choice because it's again, you you're placing so many workers down over a single game that I tend to find you kind of can't easily pinpoint where you went went wrong a lot. There might be lots of little mistakes and little choices but you feel good getting a whole handful of...
Kerley 33:11
When you've only got two or three per generation or whatever the thing may be, it's a much bigger deal
JP 33:16
I need to play it more, I've only played it twice I think.
Kerley 33:21
We always come out of these episodes with a list of games we're like 'Must play that!'
JP 33:28
Honourable mention from Davey: Dune Imperium, which I can testify he keeps borrowing my copy. 'Can I borrow Dune tomorrow?' 'Yeah, whatever'.
Kerley 33:37
I didn't know there was a JP library, might make a few withdrawals myself!
JP 33:43
The old me would have said no. But but then I kind of got over myself a little bit.
Is it you getting over yourself? Or you know us more, or a bit of both?
I think when I started the hobby, I was quite like these are my precious babies and no one else could touch them. And I'd get really like quite funny about it. Now I'm kind of like, life's too short.
Kerley 34:04
To be fair, we've had pizza-gate, lemonade-gate Yeah. Coffee-gate
Adrian 34:10
Curry-gate.
JP 34:10
Tea-gate as well.
Kerley 34:11
Yeah, Liam... that was epic, that was. You kind of have to after that don't you I suppose. Or you'd never get them out.
JP 34:18
Yeah, otherwise you'd never play anything, would you? Keeping them in a kind of air sealed vacuum. Forever.
Adrian 34:25
Dune: Imperium. I've shown it to so many people,and on their first play, they're like, 'this is good'. And you're like, yeah,
Kerley 34:35
We've got it coming up haven't we? I'm looking forward for Sunday. Yeah, Looking forward to that.
JP 34:38
It's happening. Right moving on. Your favourite game that you hated on your first play but then liked. I found this one so tough.
Adrian 34:46
I found this really tough. I feel like I stick to my convictions of if I don't like it then it's not getting another play.
JP 34:53
Burn it!
Kerley 34:54
Do you thik that's a bad trait of yours out of interest?
Adrian 34:56
Possibly. I think the thing is, is that I've had that confirmation bias with the number of times I've played a game that I don't like. And I've played it a couple more times and still not liked it, that I kind of feel like maybe I do know my own self. But I am sure there are games that I probably would have liked where I've got no, I didn't like the first play or the first two plays. I'm done. I don't want to see it again. And then whereas potentially, I could have just had a bad play or two plays out of it.
Kerley 35:21
I've actually got a fairly solid answer for this one actually
JP 35:24
Go on, chuck it in the ring.
Kerley 35:25
So it's kind of... it's not, I don't know, you might not accept it. But it's actually to do with player count. So I've played now Star Wars:Rebellion. I played that at four player as my first play, hated it
JP 35:39
It's shit at four players
Kerley 35:42
Thought it was awful. Same goes for War of the Ring. Played that at four player, hated it. But I didn't hate it, because I love the Lord of the Rings. But it was like, a bit too cumbersome not enough to do, split decisions always frustrate me.
JP 35:54
It's like do you want to play the game with one arm tied behind your back?
Kerley 35:57
Well, I'm not. Yeah, it kind of feels that way...that's you know, for the people I've played with I don't mean that you're absolutely so rubbish that I'm tying my arm behind my back
JP 36:04
He does
Kerley 36:03
I've got a reputation round here! What I really mean is when you're not making the decision... all the decisions that mean whether you win or lose, it kind of feels a bit frustrating. But the same goes for, like it's happened in reverse like Spirit Island's a good example that I know you played it with 4 and really enjoyed it. But actually, it plays so much better two or three that I think if I'd had played four first, yeah, I'd have struggled with it. Because it was just so much more like everything going on at the same time. It was almost, you know, not overwhelming because I played it before. But I was surprised you liked it as much as you do.
Yeah, no, I really enjoyed it. I have heard two and three plays better normally. So you do kind of... if you hear these little things, sometimes you take it into account when you're playing it, but I could see the puzzle I could see the love there. I think that for me the thing with Rebellion obviously I've played War of the Ring with yourself but played it two player Played Rebellion four player and it just felt like someone had just cut the roll down the middle. And that was all they've done. And so you're playing, you're just playing half of the game. And that was what I was like, Yeah, maybe this isn't the best
JP 36:35
It's a two player game
Kerley 36:40
They shouldn't have made it 4,
Adrian 36:46
'Well, we can make it a four play game if we just divide the roll up in half. Yeah, let's put that in as a module. But we know it's crap. Crap. It's crap, isn't it? Yeah, but throw it in anyway'. They didn't need to ever recommend playing it four player.
Kerley 37:20
But anyway, the point was, I played it two player because I thought it's got potential. Played it two player, absolutely loved it. 100% . Like me and you I think played a few times as two player and we just absolutely loved it.
JP 37:32
It's great. How it was designed to be. So mine, I struggle with this. I struggle with this. Because I tend to like most games I play. But the one game I have kind of picked is Dice Throne. And I still don't know whether I technically like it. But I have had a better time with it since my first play. So we played ages ago on the original Dice Throne right?Just before
Adrian 38:01
Just before the last Niche Number ones because then you trashed it in that episode.
JP 38:07
And I just, it didn't click for me for whatever reason and I think probably, again comes to player count. So we played it 3 player. And the luck of the dice ment I was getting hit by you, and I think Davey at the time? Yeah, got eliminated and waited 40 minutes for the next game. So it was kind of one of those. This is a bit rubbish. But since I've been on holiday, Rob's got the Marvel version that he took. And we've played it a few times and it's gone up. I still don't know whether it's for me. Personally, I still don't think there's enough in it for me. But will I play it? Yeah, I'll play it. Yeah. Is it my favourite? No, no. So that's what I'm picking because I just can't think of anything else to kind of go in this category.
Kerley 38:50
It's definitely a low depth game. Fun, but fairly low-depth for me.
JP 38:55
I think that might be why I don't think there's just enough.
Kerley 38:58
I'd go along with that. I still like it. I still find it fun, me and Rob play it, but yeah, I agree.
JP 39:03
Adrian?
Adrian 39:03
Thanks. Yeah, no, I'm gonna sort of take the other end of the scale to what you did JP and I'm gonna say, this is a game that I was kind of on the fence about a little bit, I kind of could see what was going on. And then the more I've played it, it's probably the level, it's like the game where I've had the most extra appreciation over more plays of the mechanics, that's Villagers. So Villagers is a Sinister Fish Game, sort of thing. It's an engine builder kind of thing where you're drafting villagers off a road and then playing them into your town that again gives you victory points as you go on, I suppose.
I just think thematically, you're like these villagers come into my village.
See for me. Like this is where I think...well this is it! It's like... so basically you kidnap them off the road. This is the way I sit in my head is it's... they walk down the road and you go they look good, bonk! And if you don't they get a coin on them where they clearly have got richer and then you think, well, I kidnap them now they've got more money. The way that it worked in my head when I was first playing this, I suppose the reason why going back to the point, I suppose the reason why I appreciate this game more is the first time I played it, we played the rules wrong. So basically two players split the entire deck of cards between them. And I was like, 'Man, this is a long game. And we seem to have very much similar like things between us'. Second time played, we've got it right. But I was just like, I'm not quite sure how much of a difference it's going to be between games. And the more I played it, the more I could see those little. Again, it's maybe not the deepest game, but it's just got... depending upon what cards are available to you can change your tactics on the fly, and I just enjoy the way it grows and the options you have for quite a simple game. So it's the one where I started off maybe a bit cold. I definitely didn't hate it. It was in the collection. I was definitely going to play it more. But as I've played it more, it's sort of shot up the list of my sort of top ones.
Kerley 40:58
I've only played it once, and I've really enjoyed it, so definitely be up for going again.
JP 41:02
You're gonna get the big box aren't you?
Adrian 41:05
That's Village, not Villagers.
JP 41:07
Oh, Villagers.
Adrian 41:08
Yes,
JP 41:08
Sorry, the tile one.
Adrian 41:10
Yes.
JP 41:11
The one I have played?
Adrian 41:12
The one you have played, yeah.
JP 41:13
Oh jeez.
Kerley 41:13
I did wonder that because we played it here! Wasn't gonna argue with you mate!
JP 41:17
Oh, that one we played at the game day at MY house? I was thinking Village.
Adrian 41:23
I do enjoy that. And I will be getting the big box. But this is Villagers, the Sinister Fish comes in the little cards and
JP 41:30
Keep up Parnaby, keep up. So cool. Davey's mentioned Anachrony, which I remember he didn't enjoy that first play.
Adrian 41:41
Yeah, Davey seems to be a little bit cold quite a few times with his Mindclash games when he first plays them, and then really sort of gets into them, it seems. So I'm wondering if it's a
JP 41:49
Yeah, I think Davey's approach to kind of heavy Euros is to lock onto a strategy and try to go deep on that strategy. And Mindclash games don't kind of work that way. They kind of need you to have your fingers in many pies to actually be successful. And I think it's just this way of attacking the game, and it just didn't pay off. And he went 'I did all this hard work, and I thought everything through and I've only got 20 points'. And I went 'Yeah, well I got 60'. 'Damn you!' And he's quite a competitive player.
Kerley 42:17
I was gonna say like, like I hope Davey's not listening,
JP 42:20
He will be!
Kerley 42:20
He will be.
Adrian 42:21
He's gotta edit the episode
Kerley 42:22
I know, I do think that if Davey does badly at a game, I think it over represents itself in his opinion, then of the game afterwards. So as he gets better at a game, the game becomes better in his mind, you know, and that's natural for everyone. Of course.
JP 42:35
Yeah. I think when you do I like the game. It doesn't excuse you, but the endorphins are 'bloody hell, I'm well happy with that'. Like, this just naturally helps, does't it? Right, let's crack on. Favourite game you've bought on a whim.
Adrian 42:49
I'll go first with this one then. So mine was Magic Maze on Mars. This was one where a company who no longer exists, was doing buy six and get a certain percentage off, or by three and get certain.... So I've got my three. Got that. And I was like 'Okay, fancy those two' and then I couldn't work out what else I wanted to put in to get the extra percentage off. And so I just looked through all the cheapish sort of £15 quid games, and they had this one Magic Maze on Mars, quite heavily marked down and then it got me my extra percentage of all those extra board games. So it's one of the few games I've picked up where I haven't researched it a lot. And it is a silly game, you can't talk to each other you each have a colour you can move pieces along that colour. And you've got to try and get all the bits to the end and mostly you sit there infuriated that the person across the table hasn't seen what you've seen. While they're infuriated that you haven't moved the piece that you need to move. And so it's just yeah, you can't talk to each other you've got to move pieces along to get them to the point that then does something and then you've got to move the next set of pieces along to the right location, kind of all doing it at the same time. It's a good laugh It's good fun, it's not to be taken too seriously at all but I've probably had the most sort of actual like, like people sort of properly laughing at playing this game and just being infuriated with each other there's a big red sort of chunky pawn piece that is the 'I want you to do something' piece and the amount of aggression that goes on to like slapping it down on the table in front of someone to say 'will you just move the piece' is just unbelievable! It always has me in stitches so yes that was my bought on a whim didn't know what it was like, didn't really know what to expect and had a great time with it.
JP 44:27
The amount of tables that red massive kind of wooden piece has damaged because people just go Tap-tap-tap-tap-tap then looking at them going 'Go on then!' but you can't say 'Go on then' you just do something. I've only ever played Magic Maze, the original, not the Mars version, but it's the same principle.
Adrian 44:43
You've got up, down, left or right insted of the colours
JP 44:44
Except it's based in a shopping mall but with barbarians and, it's a weird thing. But it's the same principle.
Adrian 44:46
Yeah, Magic Maze on Mars is robots can only travel along certain routes. Which you control those robots to get them so build the maze on the Mars colony and then land the people that are going to live there, it's a, again an odd thing perhaps makes a little bit more sense than barbarians in a shopping mall can only go one way
JP 45:15
It's weird isn't it, but I'll be quick on mine Dune Imperium was my whim purchase. I went to see the film got hyped up, love the film. Oh, I know there's a game about Dune, and I didn't, I've already played the the Gale Force Nine version. And that was a bit like, wasn't that enamoured by that game personally, but I've heard a lot of good things about Imperium bought it love it, nothing else to say. It is what it is.
Kerley 45:45
Yeah, fair enough. So I'm in agreement
JP 45:47
What about you?
Kerley 45:49
So for me I'm gonna kind of lean heavily on the Kickstarters here because most of those are whims in my book. Especially over COVID, all of them are, but yeah the one that really I absolutely love, and it's not actually a group favourite. I know JP appreciates it, it's a game called Icaion
Adrian 46:05
I've not played this, I've just missed out on...
Kerley 46:07
And I just, something about it just really piques my interest but I only really bought it because there's a great big mech involved and it was like, and it's not really even about that. It doesn't do anything, it doesn't do a massive amount. It's called a Colossus. It just goes round occasionally annoys you every now and again. But nothing major,
JP 46:25
Steals these stone shards form you
Kerley 46:26
Yeah, steals the stone shards and that's kind of about it. But it's just such an interesting puzzle. And it's asymmetric kind of, you get dealt cards, which you get different equipment each time different character each time. I really like it. I played it a few times. Now we played it a lot to player which is not really the kind of game that leans into a two player but it was you know, it worked really well. And it's grown on me since as well, you know, I really think there's a lot of depth to it. So yeah, I'm gonna say on a total whim that was, my biggest success.
JP 46:56
Definitely a unique theme, unique kind of game. Yeah, that I enjoyed it every time I've played. It's been fun. Cool. Daveys mention: Bitoku. Okay, which was at the UK games Expo. He just wandered around, saw a very colourful box went, Ooh, that looks pretty. And he bought it. So luckily, it was quite good. I've only played it once and I thought was excellent. Yeah. Good game. Good fun. All right, let's crack on to the next niche number one, so that is favourite game without an available expansion. So for me, I interpreted this question as in it's a game where expansions existed and you can't get ahold of them. That's how I answered, but it could be interpreted in different ways. So for that way I picked Troyes because I cannot get hold of Ladies of Troyes for love nor money unless I'm really want to buy it from like, Switzerland. But yeah, I quite enjoy Troyes and I actually drove near it on the way down France from Calais. That tickled me, it's amazing how many board games you recognise, driving across France. Le Havre was one. Obviously, I say were quite near Carcassonne, we weren't , we were two hours away,
Kerley 48:16
But quite close.
JP 48:20
And yeah, it was quite quite good fun to kind of look for it. So yeah, that's mine. But I look at your kind of reactions. I think you've interpreted this in a completely different way.
Kerley 48:30
I've actually got a bit of a cheat because I think mine counts for both.
JP 48:34
Ooooh, now I want to hear it
Kerley 48:35
Because... Unfathomable, and BSG.
JP 48:38
Okay, yeah.
Kerley 48:39
Battlestar Galactica, because Battlestar Galactica, they're available, but not under £200 quid. They're out of print at the minute and although the initial cost for an expansion was what £40 quid, and now they're more like £150 to £200 apiece. So I'm not paying that. I love board games but not that much. And Unfathomable which is the reskin which is you know, they lost the rights to it, hence why they've gone out of print in the first place. But Unfathomable is the reskin set in the Lovecraftian kind of you know, aesthetic,
JP 49:16
Mr. Wibbles
Adrian 49:17
Mr. Wibbles
JP 49:17
We're waiting for it.
Kerley 49:21
Yeah, and that hasn't got an expansion. I hope, the word yet is involved.
Adrian 49:26
It's FFG Of course they'll be...
Kerley 49:28
I'm hoping so
JP 49:29
It might not be as soon as your think,
Kerley 49:31
No, might be three years away but they will come, they will come so yeah, I'm looking forward to that. So yeah, BSG being hyper expensive, and Unfathomable hopefully with an incoming one
Adrian 49:42
Nice. Well, I thought of this is one that doesn't have an expansion to it and just thought about it that way. But I've already mentioned Village before. Village was the one where...
JP 49:52
Not Villagers?
Adrian 49:52
Not Villagers, Village: Port and Inn were again, like, you know, £20/£30 quid expansions that suddenly people were charging £60/£70 quid for, so they announced the big box recently. So very excited for that. My choice on the assumption that what this question meant was that there were no expansions available was Brass: Birmingham. Yeah. Which I think is number two on BGG. So I think people will probably...
JP 50:13
It's pretty good
Adrian 50:15
But yeah, obviously, you've got the two versions you've got, you've got Lancashire, which is the original, and you've got Brass:Birmingham. So there are two versions of the game, but it doesn't have a direct expansion. Again, I haven't played it enough. Like, in my opinion, I've played four or five games of it. And every time I play it, I find a new strategy or something else clicks, or I think, yeah, that didn't work that time. Let's try something else next time. And I always feel like, I feel like I can play 20 games of it and still discover little bits and pieces that I think oh, you should have done that next time. You should do this next time. We'll try that. Solid game. It's a very good game. Yeah, I really enjoy it.
Kerley 50:48
Only played it once, but thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah.
JP 50:51
Davey said Ark Nova. So he's obviously gone down the 'it hasn't got an expansion' route.
Kerley 50:57
Not quite right anymore.
JP 50:58
I know it's got some zoo maps.
Kerley 50:59
Yeah. Well, it's got two maps, and they have announced the expansion.
JP 51:02
Have they? I missed this
Kerley 51:02
Yeah. An aquarium type one. So that is due out early next year. But yeah, and the new the most recent Expo, there was the two maps that came out. Yeah, the map pack one I think is called which means that there's going to be lots of different so Yeah, that one's available. You can you can get it online at the minute for about £35 quid, but obviously I'll just wait for retail release over in the UK cos it's onlt available in the US. Absolutely. So yeah, we'll wait for that to come, but I'm hoping that's gonna be sub £20 quid, so yeah, wait for that.
JP 51:36
Sounds good. Sounds good. All right. Okay. We'll go to the final Niche number one question. What's your favourite game that has the most useless component? So I had an answer straightaway for this because the game that I played fairly fairly recently before my holiday which is Champions of Midgard. And in the Valhalla expansion, you get a little board that goes on your sideboard, of your main character, your Viking leader that you play, and the sideboards only purpose in the game is to hold your dead warriors tokens on them that's all it does. Yeah, what's the bloody point, there is no there's no point it's like we got extra punch board let's just put some boards on and away we go. So it actually has two I think, two useless components because the other one in there is a circular disk that goes on your player bord to show everyone what colour pieces you are, even though t your meeples have the same colour and people could work it. Yeah, but I love the game but it's just one of those why why why would you do that? What have you got?
Kerley 52:47
Definitely Everdell for me. You've got two in that one. The tree does nothing more than hold... Alright, it's a little platform to put your little guys on you get, but I mean,
Adrian 52:58
The tree sold that game. Would it have sold as well if it didn't...
Kerley 53:01
No! Absolutely, I suppose from a marketing point of view it was very much required, from a practical game point of view is not required at all, but an honourable mention to the expansion in... oh God which one was it... Belfaire I think, that gave you a right angled board for you to put your... so your village was straight, your little Everdell town was straight, it's just a little board like a right-angle where you can keep your workers on one side and the other bit... similar to what you did with with the dead Warriors is just somewhere for you to put your little animals on ready. Not usefull, don't need it in the slightest but there you go it looks quite pretty.
JP 53:41
How many does Everdell play?
Kerley 53:41
Everdell plays, five or six? Yeah, definitely plays five Yeah, I just love the expansion.
JP 53:48
I can't remember but if it did play six it's kind of like, that tree, someone's going to have that tree right in front of them.
Adrian 53:54
Right in front of them and they can't see half of the board because... I suppose some of the expansions take the tree out
Kerley 54:00
Yeah, in all honesty, we don't play with the tree anymore. We just move it to one side and might have it a bit further back, but because it doesn't do anything not really.
JP 54:07
And then you put the cards on there and then you can't see them you have to stand at the bottom
Kerley 54:11
It's actively getting in the way rather than even being useless, actively getting in the way I know it's not a group favourite, but I absolutely love it by the way. What about you Adrian?
Adrian 54:20
So... he was gonna forget me did you notice?
Kerley 54:22
I did
JP 54:23
I wasn't...
Kerley 54:24
He was, he had forgotten about you already
JP 54:26
And Davey's point... No, carry on.
Adrian 54:28
So I went through originally, my mind just went to all of the first player tokens that are ridiculously oversized and have no point and I thought they are useful to some extent. They've just made them oversized for no point fill up a bit of the box or sell it on Kickstarter or whatever it is. So I've, my actual choice is going to be Quadropolis
JP 54:47
Not played that one.
Adrian 54:48
So it's very basic, city builder. Like, sort of thing, similar to Suburbia, but sort of much more basic. And when you set up between each turn, you've got a stack of tiles. Very much like Carcassonne that you have to shuffle. And then you put them out one at a time, so that you get yourself a nice grid. Now bearing in mind, it's a stack of cards, like stack of tiles that you can easily shuffle, they actually give you a bag that you're supposed to put all of them in, and then rummage around, and then pull them out one at a time to put on there. And I just thought that's gonna do so much damage to my tiles. There's absolutely no way I'm just shoving all these tiles in willy nilly to then shut like, like, sort of swish around inside this bag and then put them out. So yeah, that's my choice is you've got a stack of tiles that are shuffleable in a hand, like there's no, there's no issue with it. But instead, they've given you this, this cloth bag to put all of them in, which will never see the light of day.
JP 55:44
It worked for Quacks for about 10 games, and then...
Adrian 55:49
Buy coin capsules to put them in, but that was the one where I genuinely took the component out of the bag, put it on the side, read through the entire manual, and then went, I don't know why I have a bag in this. And then it wasn't until I read reread it through. And it just says put all these tiles that we had naturally shuffled into a bag. And I was like, No, absolutely not.
JP 56:11
Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, that's the end of the niche number ones round two. It's always good to get these we've got she got a large bank of these, havent we?
Adrian 56:19
Yeah, I think there's so many random questions we could ask of different bits and pieces. But hopefully it's given our listeners something to think about or a game that they thought, yeah, that sounds like it might be...
JP 56:29
Absolutely. And will no doubt do another round of niche number ones very, very soon as the first place takeover. So shall we get on to the question, then let's do it.
And we're back with a question. And this is from Stewart again. He loves his questions. I like picking them. So he asks, as we get more knowledgeable about game mechanics and game developers and publishers, etc. Do we find that we suffer from game snobbery? And do we dismiss some of the less complicated or entry level games as too basic as in they're beneath us? Is this something that we suffer from? Or are we just kind of like 'No!'?
Kerley 57:18
I think I'm probably in the middle on this one, to be honest, because
JP 58:16
Snob!!
Kerley 57:22
I quite like medium weight and low weight games like in their right... I like party games. And you know, we've done a lot of those we love party games, or like midweight euros or like heavy euros, I like whole range of different games. So I would say, with my increased knowledge, I've come to recognise what I would call a bad game. Or a you know, a game that could have been designed a lot better and is maybe a few years old and people just have a lot of nostalgia for or it's a good entry way for them to realise the hobby has a lot more better, advanced game now. I don't think that's snobbery. I think that's education as far as that goes. Because there are still some games that are really solid that are... do fit into that bracket that I've still got a lot of time for, you know, but I'm never going to say, you know, this is hard, and I don't even know wheter to say it, but like, that Monopoly is not a good game. It's not a good game. But I mean, people love it. And if you like that with your family, then that's absolutely great. But there are just so many games that do the similar theme better, you know, and so...
JP 58:16
There's a lot of games that do
Kerley 58:19
Exactly. So it's just I don't think that's snobbery. I think that's just having, seeing all these different things. But there's a lot of games like, you know, I've still got a lot of time for Risk and Cluedo and all those types of games, because I think they're fairly unique. There's not a lot like them. And they're quite interesting, you know. But yeah, I think there are some games that don't... when you go into the hobby don't age well. I don't think thats snobbery
JP 58:46
No, that's just, either you said on a previous episode where you're trying to compare like a Spectrum game to an Xbox series X. And Spectrum games are way better than some of them. Some of them are. Jet Set Willy for the old old school gamer fans out there.
Adrian 59:07
Dizzy the Egg
JP 59:10
Why is there not a board game version of Dizzy the Egg? Someone needs to make that.
Kerley 59:15
Yeah I remember that. I'm interested to hear what Adrian thinks about this one because I think you're probably the one with the bigger... biggest gaming history.
Adrian 59:22
Yeah, I think there are... so I started to nod along to this question. And he mentioned at the end, the complicated bit, you know, games that are more complex or less simple. And I suddenly like oh, no, because there are games I'm done with, you know, I've played them a lot. I'm done with. If someone cracks it out and says, let's play this, I'll be like, Yeah, fine, whatever. But my snobbery I think comes to do more with production value. So if the symbols don't make sense, if I look at a board game teach on YouTube and the pieces or the symbols or I start looking at a rule book and the rule book is dreadful, then I think I've got a level of snobbery around that where I've started to notice more when it seems I'm watching like a YouTube if I don't think it makes sense or the symbols or there's like just one really, really sort of botched rule they've had to squeeze in to make the game a little bit more... All those kinds of things. I feel like yeah, I've probably got bit more snobbery around that around the aesthetics and the production value of it. But like yourself, like, No, I still like some of those really simple games. You know, we've talked about Bandido. andido is just a maze, like you're creating a maze with, there's no level of complexity about it. But it's still one of my most played games, because you can play it in five minutes and have a good laugh. And like, Oh, why didn't we get the bend we needed at the right time and stuff like that. So complexity wise? No, I think that it's that, as you say, kind of, maybe not bad games. I do think yeah, I have spotted some bad games and gone no, but just, if it's a bad rule book, if it's got awkward symbols, or an awkward turn sequence that I can see just doesn't quite work, then yeah, I think I'm a bit more picky about that, where I've seen some games where after 10 plays, I'm still at a What was that symbol? Again, it looks identical to this symbol, or whatever it is. And yeah, I think that's where maybe I've my sort of snobbery or level of kind of, I'm just not going to play that again.
See I don't think I'd noticed some of the stuff you're... because I can take your point exactly about Dune: Imperium. First time we met, I think, yeah. And you had a big issue that, like you love the game. Yeah, it was we all did. But you had a big issue with the aesthetics looking too close to each other. You weren't sure which space was which. And I wouldn't have even noticed. But you're absolutely right. In Dune: Imperium. That's its probably only weakness, in my opinion
JP 1:01:34
That's fair isn't it? I think, kind of for me, like, I've evolved through gaming, like I think most people do in the hobby, right? You start off with certain games, and you kind of you feel like you level up from them. And like you said, Adrian, I've done with that one. Don't think I feel the need or desire to play these particular games, again, because you found better versions or other ones that scratch a better itch, etc. So I think that's just the natural kind of progression in the hobby of just getting on to different games. But for me, I kind of will play anything. I'm kind of like, Yeah, whatever, I'll play anything. I'll try anything once regardless of weight. So I'm not like, that's a light game.
Says it's 2.9 on BoardGameGeek. I can't possibly play something that low.
I don't entertain that at all. But then equally I quite like the fact that there are games out there that are in the higher end and we go 'Yeah played that'. That's quite nice. So suppose there is an element of, yeah, we've managed to crack over a four plus complexity game and it was fine. I must be really intelligent!!. No, you're not
Adrian 1:02:43
Especially if you lost
JP 1:02:44
Yeah, I did. A lot! And I didn't know what's going on. But no, I don't think I suffer from snobbery apart from the usual Monopoly bashing because I just can't, I can't do it. I literally gave my copy away to a family member because they wanted to play on New Year's Eve, and I just refused.
Kerley 1:03:03
I just think I don't think any of us are snobs when it comes to this, but I think there are some games we personally wouldn't play. Yes, like Monopoly as an example. But that's not like, they all have their place. I would never look down on anyone for playing them. But I'm not interested any more, and that's really what it comes down to
Adrian 1:03:22
And it is interesting, because I do think that while board games have less Gatekeeping in them generally, I do still think it's susceptible to Gatekeeping. I have certainly seen people sort of say Oh, well, you know, this person isn't into Brass: Birmingham, or Eclipse? Can we really consider them like, part of our gaming group? Or are we happy to play games with them? Or are you real gamer if you haven't ever played Twilight Imperium? And it's just like, No, that's not a thing. Yes, the Monopoly bashing thing is odd. And I kind of understand why some people don't like it. But yeah, to a point earlier, I think it's a game that has a quite high level of complexity. But because people it's in the sort of Zeitgeist people know it, people that think it's a simpler game. Whereas I think the actual... what you get out of a quite complex game, I could show someone a much less complicated gaming, they'd probably get more out of it, if they knew. Yeah. But yeah, I do still think that part of this question is around that. Is there Gatekeeping involved? Where as you, as you've got on in the hobby, are you now considering gamers who've only been in it six months, three months, whatever less than? I'd like to think that we don't, but I have certainly seen it. I've seen out there.
JP 1:04:34
I've definitely seen it. And yeah, it shouldn't be in the hobby at all. But like most hobbies, I'm sure it exists.
Adrian 1:04:42
Having having been part of things like you know, trading card games, Magic: The Gathering and stuff like that, and you know, it's Horus Heresy, it's just re-released for Warhammer. And the Gatekeeping going on in that at the moment is crazy. But it's like, you've got loads of new players who are really excited to play this game, like get them involved. Get them... Yeah, you might have to teach them, you might have to put up with these niche rules that they don't know. Because Games Workshop games tend to have a level of weird rules, complex interactions like Magic does and other games do. But just get them involved. Get them excited. Yeah, maybe don't invite them to your like, crazy tournament evening or whatever, if you, if you're worried that they're going to dent into it. But that's not to say, Don't ever play them. Don't invite them along to events, just maybe warn them. This is going to be uber competitive. And you might, it might make you cry. Because you don't know the rules. And yeah, but you then set that expectation and you invite them to the big narrative event, so you invite them to the game days where anyone can come along, all that kind of stuff.
JP 1:05:38
Great point. Yeah,
Kerley 1:05:40
Definitely. Yeah.
JP 1:05:40
Thanks, Stewart. Thanks again, mate. Keep them coming in. Right, let's get to our Penultimate turn.
Now it's time for us to talk about what we're excited for. So what's coming up? What are you looking forward to, holidays are over? I need this. I need some excitment, something fun. So what what we got coming up? Adrian, I'm going to you first.
Adrian 1:06:12
I've got a couple of birthdays coming up actually where people have decided that they want to play board games all day. Which I'm more that on board for. Listener of the show and someone who regularly comments Marcus has a birthday day coming up where we're going down to Exeter and playing a few games. I don't know what I'm going to be playing but I'm gonna take a load long and see what we end up playing. I got a few other friends you don't get much chance to play board games. They're coming along as well. So we're quite excited for that one. Right. And then we got Keley's coming up. I won't name an age but
Doesn't bother me mate
JP 1:06:43
It's got a zero in it
Kerley 1:06:45
I'm quite proud I've got this far frankly.
Adrian 1:06:48
Yeah, but yeah, obviously we've got like a games day coming up for your birthday as well and looking forward to that and see what we fit into that as well. So yeah, ironically, like two weekends in a row, I've got two big birthdays. Like let's play some board games.
JP 1:07:02
So yeah, sounds good. Good options. Kerley?
Kerley 1:07:05
Yeah, definitely. So I'm gonna take a bit of a different approach although I am looking forward to my birthday and stuff like that. And there's a few games that I do want to try out, I'm really looking forward I've got a couple of Kickstarters coming very soon that I'm really...
JP 1:07:16
Are they nearly there?
Kerley 1:07:16
They're nearly there mate. We've got well, we'd like to say we've got a few but the Northgard is probably the one I'm most looking forward to. I do really want to get to the table Europa Universalis I wonder whether it will be too much for me, so I'd say I'm looking forward to it but with a little bit of trepidation if I'm honest.
JP 1:07:17
It's Excel 97?
Kerley 1:07:40
Yes, exactly that so yeah. Yeah, so we'll wait and see on that one. But yeah, both of those are due very soon and there were other stuff as well. Frosthaven has just announced that it's likely to be Christmas to January for a potential delivery so, bit far in advance but I'm looking forward to that one but yeah,
JP 1:07:58
Nice, good
Adrian 1:07:59
Yourself? What's gonna get you out of the post holiday blues?
JP 1:08:02
Hopefully anything man! No, there's two things actually, one is Kickstarter related and one isn't and the Kickstarter related one is GenCon they have shown off the Chip Theory Games. Surprise! Shown off the Hoplomachus: Victorum production copy, which is the Ggladiator fighty battle game and, it looks bloody stunning. So I'm like really really hyped and excited
Kerley 1:08:30
That's right up my street
JP 1:08:31
So yeah, you'll love it. I mean, Victorum was a solo only experience, but they remastered... Of course I've got that, that's a full on coop, like bash each other team v's team all that kind of stuff. So that, I'm looking forward to that just because it just looks really good. But in terms of gaming events next week we start the Perseverance Chronicle mode. Yeah, and I forgot about that, completely.
Kerley 1:08:56
I forgot about it until two seconds ago!
JP 1:08:58
I was like, Oh shit that's like next week and I really need to learn the rules for that and get it going but because we've already booked the four games in! Yeah, because if we don't, it will be forever. And actually looking forward to giving it a go, see what it's like see how it develops.
Kerley 1:09:16
Me, you, and T-bone isn't it?
JP 1:09:17
Yeah, we kept it three players because actually it's just the sweet spot I think for that game. Just plays that little bit quicker
Kerley 1:09:23
Slightly too long between turns at four, I think
JP 1:09:25
Yeah, it's the fact that you've got two actions like their primary secondary action on your go. It just takes that little bit longer to get round. And I think the three, it's just a lot slicker. So looking forward to it. Yeah.
Kerley 1:09:39
So there we go. We got there. Definitely.
JP 1:09:41
Hopefully Davey we've done you proud, and hopefully you get better soon. And return and hold the reins. If not one of us will be carrying on. So yeah, we've got to the end of the show. Just want to say thanks to all the listeners as always, and if you've liked the show, please like subscribe and review on your podcast player of choice and if you want to get in contact with us on the show you can on our email address which is players@whoseturn.co.uk , or check out Facebook at Whose Turn Is It Anyway Podcast, on Instagram @whoseturnpodcast , on Tiktok @whoseturnisitanyway and we'll be back again in two weeks with another episode so stay frosty everyone
Transcribed by https://otter.ai