Episode 88: Playing with your mind (Dungeons & Dragons)

Instead of board games Rob takes us to another part of his hobby space which is Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) and invites his DM and friend of the podcast Stewart to join in on the conversation.  Lets hope he rolls a natural 20 people.

FIRST PLAYER: Rob
OTHER PLAYERS: Becky
GUEST PLAYERS: Stewart

In this episode you'll learn:
- about the new Ada's Dream by Alleycat Games from our guest player Stewart
- Rob is enjoying his solo adventures in Star Wars Outer Rim by Fantasy Flight Games
- that Tenby is not only a Welsh town in Pembrokeshire but also a pretty good card game
- all about why the gang play Dungeons and Dragons, from DM'ing, to playing and all elements around this side of the hobby.

LINKS REFERENCED IN THE SHOW
N/A

EPISODE CHAPTERS

0:00 - TURN 1 - Player Count

1:03 - TURN 2 - Let's Talk About Hex

1:17 - Stewart - Ada's Dream

7:28 - Becky - Tenby

11:20 - Rob - Star Wars Outer Rim

20:17 - TURN 3 - Main Event: Playing with your mind (Dungeons & Dragons)

29:49 - What led Stewart to becoming a DM & why?

32:57 - Beckys first proper D&D experience

35:55 - The reality of prep time for D&D sessions

41:06 - A lot of pitfalls for starting DMs

45:06 - Getting started in creating characters

51:15 - How does a relevative newbie feel going into D&D for the first time

58:04 - D&D can be whatever you want it to be

1:12:54 - What advice would you give a group to start their first sessions?

1:20:12 - TURN 4 - Konn4ct F4ur

1:23:49 - TURN 5 - The Penultimate Turn: What's Coming Next?

1:29:23 - TURN 6 - The Final Turn

Chapters

• 0:00 TURN 1 - Player Count
• 1:03 TURN 2 - Let's Talk About Hex
• 1:17 Stewart - Ada's Dream
• 7:28 Becky - Tenby
• 11:20 Rob - Star Wars Outer Rim
• 20:17 TURN 3 - Main Event: Playing with your mind (Dungeons & Dragons)
• 29:49 What led Stewart to becoming a DM & why?
• 32:57 Beckys first proper D&D experience
• 35:55 The reality of prep time for D&D sessions
• 41:06 A lot of pitfalls for starting DMs
• 45:06 Getting started in creating characters
• 51:15 How does a relevative newbie feel going into D&D for the first time
• 58:04 D&D can be whatever you want it to be
• 1:12:54 What advice would you give a group to start their first sessions?
• 1:20:12 TURN 4 - Konn4ct F4ur
• 1:23:49 TURN 5 - The Penultimate Turn: What's Coming Next?
• 1:29:23 TURN 6 - The Final Turn

Transcript

TURN 1 - Player Count
0:00
[Music]
0:17
Hello and welcome to another episode of Whose Turn is It Anyway, where we invite you to join our gaming group and talk
0:23
about all things cardboard and meatballs. Today I am joined with Becky. Hello. and our very very special guest,
0:31
Stuart Enu. Good evening. He's getting full into character, which leads us nicely into this week's topic.
0:39
But I'm going to ask you first, how are you both doing? I'm good, thank you. A bit sort of damp
0:45
cuz it's very, very wet outside. Horrible, isn't it? Absolutely hoofing down. Yep. But that's fine. Good. She
0:52
Yeah. I mean, not bad. I mean, it's nice to be back. If only to prove that you can have too much of a good thing. You can. It is possible people. And with
0:59
that, let's move on to let's talk about hex.
TURN 2 - Let's Talk About Hex
1:12
Stu, as our very special guest, I'd like to start with you. What have you been playing, mate?
Stewart - Ada's Dream
1:17
Um, I have literally come this evening from playing Adah's Dream. So, that got delivered the other week. Um, and I've
1:25
just got that out. had a two-handed play and about to start the solo on that. Nice. Very good. Nice. It looks It looks quite pretty.
1:31
It is very visual. It's not as heavy as it looks like it should be, but it's a
1:36
decent There's lots of options, lots of ways to get points. So, yeah, I'm really enjoying that. And I had also just tried
1:42
out the Tokaido Duo solo mode from Stonem games as well. Is there a solo mode for that? Is there
1:48
a solo mode for solo mode for the duo and a solo mode for the main Tokaido game? And I've got them both now. So, I'm trying. Oh, that's really cool. Back to Adah's
1:54
dream. Is that the picture that you put on? That's a table hog. Yes. Is it that one where you were like, I need a bigger table?
2:00
How big is your table? About the size of the one we're on right now, which is quite a hefty table. 2.4 by
2:07
I don't know 1. It's about 6T by 3T. Something like that. And it's that that's two player. And if
2:13
I tried to do four player, I'm going Yeah. Not sure how I'm doing this. Cuz what what's Aida's dream about?
2:19
So it's about Aydah Love Lace, who is in theory the the mother of computing. She was the first person to create it, but
2:25
she died at the age of 36. Um, she is the daughter of or was it the granddaughter of Byron? No, she was the
2:31
daughter of Byron. Yeah. The poet. Um, and she was inventing this computing machine and she worked with Babage and
2:37
another other people, but she became she had a lot of health issues. So, she didn't survive, but it would have been
2:43
the first computer and Cheurion used her. She wrote wrote the first kind of what? Yeah. The punch card programs. Yeah. One
2:49
of the first things I mean and and the game does come with a little history booklet. So, it just gives you a little bit of background, which is quite nice. I I do like I do like games that give
2:55
you a little bit of extra beyond just the thing. And it's quite thematic. You're you're
3:00
meeting patrons. You're gathering resources to build your computing machine. You're doing research. So,
3:06
yeah, it it's got quite a thematic feel to it. And it is very pretty. I've got the deluxe version obviously. Of
3:11
course you did. Of course I have. Um sucker. And there are some very nice blingy bits in there. I mean, the little books you
3:17
use to publish, I mean, they are the best little books I've ever seen. And as for computer punch cards as actual components that you slot into your
3:23
board, it's just like Oh, yes. That's that's good. That is good. I love I love it when any any kind of
3:30
medium, movies, books, when they kind of interlace reality with with fantasy.
3:35
There's there's a really good author, Simon Scarrow, does it really well with ancient Rome and Benanovich, he does it
3:42
with the Rivers of London series, book series. It's similar thing where it's a fantasy world that's intermingled with with real world. And I love I love it
3:49
when things do do like that. So the fact that you actually get programming cards Yeah, they are very exciting. It's just another like slight bit of
3:56
immersion into it, isn't it? That really kind of brings it to life. It's completely unnecessary because you're putting the cogs into your
4:02
machine and you're connecting it all up with the dice. I mean, I don't like dice games, but the dice are used as just a a
4:08
piece of resource effectively. And you put these cards on the end to boost the score of those rows. You wouldn't need
4:14
to do it. You could just put a token. You could just put anything, but you literally have a nice card and they have all the different patterns and all the
4:20
holes. They are just fantastic. If we got rid of all the things we didn't need in board gaming, we'd be
4:25
left with very little cardboard and dice and that would be it. Yeah, some of them wouldn't even have dice, I
4:31
don't think. So, but yeah, it's it's got some very nice components. The metal coins are
4:36
really nice as well. They got decent coin. Um, so yeah, it's it's altogether it's a nice package and the rule book's
4:42
actually pretty decent. Are there what a rule book?
4:48
I Well, that's the weird thing about Adah's Dream. There's very little content for it. There was like a preview
4:54
series a couple about a year ago where they did a load of preview videos from various content creators. There are no
5:00
how to play videos on BG and there's I found one full playthrough, no solo playthroughs
5:07
and it's only just been delivered now. So, you have to use the rule book because there's just not enough there to learn the game.
5:12
Yeah. So, kind of forced down that avenue, which like you said, if it's a good rule book, it isn't the end of the world. I mean, I'd like an index because you
5:18
are you will there's a lot of iconography and you will be flicking backwards or forwards um on the first
5:24
couple of games, but it's it's easy enough to follow and it's not as hard as
5:29
I thought it was going to be and I know cuz I think JP and Davey had a get play of it two essence ago,
5:35
possibly. And I think they said they had a bad demo and they weren't sure about the game. And I'm thinking, I don't know how
5:42
you bad demo this because you've been walking around a hall for three days, you're exhausted, and your feet hurt
5:47
and you can't hear what they're saying. Yeah, probably. No, but it's just I'm just think they they said the guy was demo it wasn't it wasn't clear what they were trying to
5:53
do. And I'm going but it's actually pretty straightforward. So I don't know how you screw that up.
5:59
How can you mess up? Well, but I mean, you know, it is what it is. I've never I've never demoed, so you know, I don't know what I'm talking about. You
6:04
know, it's it's easy enough to pick up and once you get used to it and there are lots of little combo combo bits, so you know, it's going to appeal to some
6:10
people in our group. It I must admit games like that a few years ago would have been like a hard no. I'm
6:18
not interested. Thank you very much. But now that sounds really cool. Yeah, I I would definitely like to.
6:24
And by cool, I mean like really nerdy. Lur me in with the fancy blingy bits and then I'll stay for the game.
6:29
Yeah, you'll stay for the shiny bits. It's like Yeah. Talking about shiny bits on games. Um,
6:34
Curly and JP played Hoplamus. Um, I don't know which one it was. Victori.
6:39
The one with the heavy metal dice. Yes. Oh my god, those dice.
6:46
They are so lush. Just holding them and then they roll so beautifully. And I
6:53
think he said he got them as a present. So he didn't know how much they were exactly. Whatever it was, they are
6:58
absolutely worth it. Why can't they be used for other games? because they've got like pictures of like I think swords
7:03
on or whatever. So, it's it's not a it's a D6, so I guess you could like get a
7:08
pen and write numbers on it, but why would you do that? But they felt so nice. I was like, "Okay,
7:15
tell me you're a nerd without telling me you're a nerd. This dice feels nice." I'm just playing out there for any board
7:20
game developer. If you want Becky to buy your game, just bling the hell out of it and she will take it. Thank you very
7:26
much. Yeah, I'm I'm a sucker for that. Speaking of which, Becky, what what have you been playing? So, um, lately I've been jenning up on
Becky - Tenby
7:33
Tenbby. Um, I'm going to play it fairly soon um with another friend of the pod.
7:40
And it's just a really lovely game. The artwork is so beautiful. So, it's made by Cozy Cup Games. I think it's been
7:46
recently distributed by is it Mighty Boards, I think. Um, so you can you can
7:52
buy it. it is available and it is a drafting kind of tableau building game,
7:58
but you're building a street in Tenbi, which is a lovely little Welsh village. So, you've got cards that are town
8:04
cards, so they've got pictures of houses on or businesses or whatever. You've got um peer cards, which is kind of a pier
8:12
on it, not uh obviously. Um you've got kind of landmarks, which might be say, I don't
8:17
know, statues, that kind of thing. and you have got residence which is like your sort of I don't know like a VP
8:23
multiplier or like a like an aim kind of a thing. So you're basically taking turns drafting certain um cards and
8:29
you're adding them to your street. So for example on the card you've drafted maybe when you put it down the cards
8:36
left or right of them um if they've got birds on you're going to score one point for a bird on the card left or right. So
8:43
it's all about placement and it's about putting it's like comboy type stuff. Um, but the really clever thing I liked
8:49
about it is the turn order changes. So, if you you kind of decide what turn
8:55
order you get. It's like like a bidding mechanic sort of a thing. You've got three op if there's a two-play game. You've got three options. You can decide
9:01
which one you're going to get which determines how many cards you draft or the kind of stuff you get. However, if
9:06
it's a really good one, you're going to go last next time. So, it's quite a good sort of catch-up mechanic. So, you can't
9:12
just go along and steamroll her and just pick up loads of cards. you're then going to get the kind of I don't want to
9:18
say the scrapings, but you're not going to get the prime optimal choice next time. Um, and the artwork is so
9:25
beautiful. It's really really I don't want to say childish. It's it's really childlike. It's really clear and it
9:34
reminds me and I've just realized why I liked it. When I was a small child, there was like a learn your letters kind
9:40
of a thing and it was like A for apple, B for whatever and N was nurse and it's these really clear lovely pictures and
9:46
it's it's like that. So it's like an outline drawing. The clouds have got little happy faces on. There's little
9:51
birds in it, little seagulls, um little lamps in the street. It's just really really I don't want to say twe. It's
9:58
sweet and lovely. I've only seen the the front cover of the of the small box because it's quite
10:04
a small box game, right? It's not very small box. And it reminds me of a wish you were here picture.
10:09
Yeah. The post the old school wish you were here like color scheme and and uh
10:14
it's really lovely. Yeah. And I I you've you've spoken about this in the past and and again it's just
10:21
the artwork seems it's just so lovely. Seems really really nice. It seems like a really nice walrus in it. It's just lovely. Um the
10:28
guy that created it um Benji Talbert he's a really nice guy. Um, he let us
10:34
have a copy of the game as like a prototype that we have to like send to another group and bless him, he sent me a copy of the game, which was really,
10:40
really lovely of him. He absolutely didn't need to do that. I was 100% going to buy it. Um, yeah. So, I'm really glad that it's
10:46
been picked up by a big distributor cuz everyone should play this game. Awesome. So, yeah, even Curly liked it.
10:53
Wow. Even Curly liked it. Curly likes a lot of games, though. I know. I know. But you I didn't He was
10:59
going to play it with me cuz I wanted to have tried the game and he he even he was like, "Oh, that's got a lot more to
11:04
it." Actually, it's it's really good. And I love it when you're surprised that way. Yeah. As opposed to the other way
11:10
around where you think it's going to be it's going to be amazing and then it's No, this absolutely absolutely
11:16
um exceeds expectations. Awesome. Oh, I'm really glad. Well, I I I want to mention a game. I want to talk
Rob - Star Wars Outer Rim
11:22
about a game. Oh, well, you can change the rules cuz it's your episode, mate. You can do what you I'm first player, aren't I? So, I
11:28
might as well. We got together last week and we played Nucleium with the is it the Australia
11:34
expansion with the new Energy Institute expansion and we had the Court of Progress expansion.
11:39
JP chucked it all in. Yeah. Oh, he never does that. JP traditional fashion. He's gone overboard with the f with the standard
11:46
game. Not even that. He may not have even played the first game and just throwed all the expansion. Chucked it in. And I forget how much I
11:51
love that game. Yeah. It's just so I can't
11:57
I can't figure out the puzzle until the end of the game because I don't I don't play it enough. But every time I play
12:03
it, like we nearly broke tea at one point. That was just hilarious. The first hour he was literally head in his hands for
12:08
an entire hour. Like, well, that's gone well. This is This is Curly 2.0. It was sound like fun.
12:14
It it was fun. So, I mentioned that because that I found out it's got solo mode. So, I'm like, oh, yeah. No, it's it's awesome. But I
12:22
want to talk about another game that I played solo. I do have friends people, I promise. Not really. No, but still I Boy Can,
12:29
right? Um and I bought a long time ago um Star
12:35
Wars Out Rim and I still haven't played that yet. I really should. And I've played it with Tambo a lot and
12:41
it's been sat on my shelf for a long time. There are reasons why I didn't play it, but I was like, "No, screw it. I'm going to play it." Um, and I had the
12:48
expansion, the unfinished business. So, I I took out a shrink and I popped it
12:53
and I was at the table and I was like, "Right, okay." Because I've never set this game up. I've only ever gone gone over to Tambos and Tambo knew all the
13:00
rules. So, I didn't have to I just kind of had to learn my my what I was doing and that was it. So, I learned the game.
13:05
I set it all up and I played it the next day. And it's such a wonderful Star Wars game
13:11
because it doesn't focus on the main characters. It doesn't focus on the Jedi or the Sith. It's not a It's not even a
13:18
fighting game. You can't fight each other. So, you are either a bounty
13:23
hunter or a smuggler um trying to become the most famous
13:29
bounty hunter or smuggler in the galaxy. And you do this by doing jobs and completing tasks
13:36
um to gain fame. And with the expansion is the first to eight um eight fame wins
13:41
the game. and you've got a personal with this you've got almost like a personal story that you need to fulfill. So it
13:46
gives you a bit of direction throughout the game and it was just wonderful. Um I've only ever played it four player
13:52
which is a long it can take a long time cuz what it's typical game it starts real slow where nobody gets any fame for
13:59
like you know sort of an hour or two and then all of a sudden it ramps up massively. So, um, to play
14:06
it on my own, and I I played it with a bot, and I've only ever played with a bot twice before in any games. Um, so I
14:13
wasn't really sure how it was going to go, but it was really easy to follow. You drew a card, you did what it said on the card in the order that you could do
14:19
it in. So, I was like, "Oh, okay." But it actually really felt like a player in regard that they they were just
14:25
constantly getting in your way. And I was going to go up against somebody who steals your your parts if he can get to
14:31
you. So, I'm constantly trying to stay away, but at the same time, a damn it, I need to go that way. So, if this card
14:36
comes out, I know I'm losing parts off my ship or or things like that. So, and I I played it for about 5 hours on my
14:43
own because I was taking it really slowly and just thought, I you know, I'm just going to sit and enjoy this game. And for my first solo playthrough, yeah,
14:51
I got a couple of things wrong, but it's a solo game. Who who really cares? But I
14:56
loved it and I had an absolute blast. and I love the Star Wars universe and I love the the sort of fringe characters
15:01
that are included in this. Um, and and yeah, I just had an absolute blast with
15:07
it. So, I've put an event up. It's on a Sunday day, so I don't know if anybody can make it, but I thought screw it. I'll just put you
15:12
have a nice time on your own if it doesn't anyway. Exactly. Worst case scenario, I get to play a game I love regardless. So, um,
15:17
so yeah, I I had an absolute blast with it. and and the artwork, typical Star Wars fashion, you can tell who the
15:23
charact, you know, the the the character artwork is done really well, but it's done, it's a really simplistic
15:28
sort of design on on the mat. The mat is a um it's a semicircle that represents
15:34
the the kind of galaxy. So, and and it they almost come like puzzle pieces, so you can always switch these around.
15:41
Okay, that's cool. So, there's a standard setup, and then after that point, you can just shuffle it and put it um you know, in any order
15:48
that you want. The only problem with that is you just about learn where the planets are on this semicircle
15:54
and then if you change that, you then have to relearn where all they all are. So you're constantly just reading names
16:00
of planets. That that's the only downside. Where the bloody hell is that planet? I got to pick up this cargo and take it there.
16:06
Um but for a Star Wars game, it's it's quite chill in that you're not fighting
16:12
anything. You can pick up crew and if a bounty hunter needs
16:18
if there's a bounty for one of your crew members, they have to come and get it off you, but they fight the crew member. They don't fight you and all the crew
16:24
members have got stats. Um, the only kind of time you can really have a fight is when you're fighting against a NPC or
16:32
you're fighting against the patrol. There's four patrols in this game. There's the the Rebel Alliance Imperials, there's the Huts, and there's
16:39
the Syndicate. So you've got two kind of crime Yeah. sort of organizations and
16:44
then you've got the the the big two. Oh, and as you do tasks, you've got a tracking board that puts you in favor
16:50
with some and lowers you with others. Oh, okay. And if you encounter their patrol and
16:55
you're either sort of neutral or you're with their favor, then they they kind of just don't really bother you. If you're
17:01
neutral, they stop you. So you stop your movement at that position, but nothing else really happens. You pull a card and
17:06
do what's on the card. But if you're if you're in favor of them, they just let you pass. And if you're not, you end up
17:11
fighting that patrol unit. But if you defeat that patrol unit, a new patrol unit comes out to the point where
17:17
there's four levels. And if the fourth one ever comes out, it cannot be defeated. They're bringing out the big guns
17:23
because they know you're a bit of an So just hope that you don't bump into them or you have to plan kind of your routes
17:30
around them. There's always two routes between planets. So if they're on the bottom run, you you
17:35
take the scenic route. Yeah. and and that can hinder you and that it's actually going to take you longer to get to your destination, but
17:41
you're you're not having to, you know, you're not having to go against these ridiculously powerful sort of starships
17:47
and you've got like a little smuggling little smuggling ship that's just smuggling Robin Relion going. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
17:53
War going through space. So, like I say, it's quite thematic. You buy new ships and and there's a story to
17:59
tell. I just I just bloody love it. I absolutely love it. only because well mainly because it's got the ghost from
18:05
Star Wars Rebels as a ship in it that you can buy which I love that ship. Um it just it's just wafting over my head.
18:11
Yeah, two say looking. Sorry, I'm just spewing nerd over you. I apologize. Yeah, I've just I've wiped it off. It's
18:17
fine. Um I mean I apologize. It is I mean it's a game I see a lot on solo lists and it's I must admit I am a
18:24
sucker for a decent thematic one and to be honest what you're describing sounds very much like the Firefly game that
18:30
came out from Gale Force. I've heard that's really good. I got that and I had all the expansions, but those were in the days before I did
18:35
solo, so it was never going to get played. So, I got rid of it and I now kind of regret it because it was very much you would take jobs and depending
18:42
on who you pissed off, you could be in trouble with them and then you've got the Reavers out there in space and so it was all there and it and the board and
18:49
everything and you could get all the different chips. It was really good. This is why you don't get rid of your games. See, you talk about some people
18:56
have to. No, but you all talk about there's always somewhere else to hide them. It's always somewhere.
19:01
Your house is not a Tardis. Sooner or later, you're going to open a cupboard and die under an avalanche. We have actually already planned that we
19:07
need to get some more catac. We have At which point you have an extension.
19:13
We're getting rid of the garden you barely used. Just build out to that. Yeah, that's it. Perfect. Don't need that.
19:18
Nice. So, opposite the board games where they are now, there's going to be another Well, that we also need somewhere to put
19:24
the Lego. So, that's what that's for. Yeah, that's a problem I now have is Lego is now becoming a bit of an issue cuz it's too big and I don't have enough
19:30
space and there are kits I want cuz I really want the Gooni pirate ship now. It looks cool, doesn't it? Have you seen the new Star Trek?
19:36
Well, the Yeah, the Enterprise looks so good. It's big, but I'm not that fussed about it. Oh, it looks so cool.
19:42
I'd rather I' So, I'd rather have the Gooni pirate ship. I mean, it is just the Gooni pirate ship. My ultimate one is the Titanic, but that
19:48
is massive. Yeah, you can keep that. That is massive. But if you get rid of your games, then you always regret it. You
19:53
see, I'm not going to have that problem. Yeah, I'm I'm not going to have that problem. To be fair, I'm compensating quite
19:59
nicely. This was a Kickstarter free year. It's not gone well.
20:04
Hey ho, you can always sell them. Then it's like you've rented it out. That's what you got to think to yourself.
20:11
So, yeah, that's that's what I've been up to. Cool. Sounds good. So, with that, we can move on to the main segment.
TURN 3 - Main Event: Playing with your mind (Dungeons & Dragons)
20:18
[Music]
20:27
So, this episode uh is about something that's become one of my favorite parts
20:34
of gaming. And it's something that I guess subconsciously has been through
20:41
different stages of my life without me realizing. And I'll explain why in a minute. But this this episode is going
20:47
to be about Dungeons and Dragons. So that's the reason that Stu, I've invited you on this one. One, because you're a
20:53
DM for for two groups that I'm a part of and do a fantastic job in it. So you
20:58
you've got a lot of experience. And Becky, somebody who's fairly new with D to D and D.
21:04
Yeah. Well, I had a little a flirtation with it about 20 odd years ago. Dirty girl. I had one Yeah. one kind of we can't
21:12
even call it really a campaign. Um it was just an excuse to get together with mates and eat loads of crisps.
21:17
Yeah. Which was cool. Yeah. Which was cool. And roll dice. So the the reason I say it's been sort of subconsciously with me is my first
21:24
encounter with D and D was the TV show. Which one? What? The 80s cartoon. The cartoon which had absolutely nothing
21:31
to do with D and D. Well, I had a dungeon master and that was about it. Yeah. And the dragon. What was the
21:36
dragon called? Oh, the I can't remember the dragon. And you had each of the character classes. You had a barbarian, a ranger, a wizard,
21:42
a rogue. And a rogue. I think there's a check with the the invisible hood, right? Yeah, and a goat for some
21:49
reason. I I don't know what the goat was about, but that was my first That's how I know of Dungeons and Dragons
21:55
as a kid. And then it cropped up in Ready Player One when I was reading that. Um, it cropped up in in the '9s
22:04
for me when we started painting minifigures and you could get D&D minifigures. I, oh yeah, I kind of
22:09
forgot about D and D. Then most well most people probably now know it through
22:15
um uh Stranger Things. Yeah. Yeah. And but and again before that
22:21
there was Tiny Tina's um uh Dn D adventure in uh Borderlands 2.
22:28
It was an expansion that really made me laugh and I said that that to be honest that's what kind of gave me the kick to
22:33
try it. Um and then most recently Boulders Gate. I mean, how you know, a lot of people now after playing Boulders
22:40
Gate kind of understand the mechanics of it or not the mechan but the but kind of the spells and the abilities and and
22:45
everything else. It makes it a lot easier to create a character having and I know it's not 100% accurate, but
22:51
it's not bad. It's enough to get your foot in the door. So, um, so yeah, like the only
22:56
reason I know Gary Gyax's name is because it's mentioned a lot in in Ready Player One and D and D was created by
23:03
Gary Gyax and David Arnison. Yeah, there's some sort of historic debate
23:08
about some of it, but yeah. Or or at least that's when that was the first publication that was made by them and it was made in 1974.
23:16
Yeah. Um which was as older than I thought it was. I thought it was out in the 80s,
23:21
but um but yeah, that's a good 10 years before I realized it'd come out. So, um
23:26
and then of course you had all the hysteria. Like a lot of people think that, especially my daughter who has no
23:32
clue, thinks that the hysteria around D and D is hilarious in Stranger Things,
23:37
but it was a very real concern in the 80s, wasn't it? It was I think probably more in America.
23:42
Yeah. I remember doing something to do with it when I did sociology. Mhm.
23:47
Back in college back in back in the It wasn't quite the '9s, but it almost was. It was year 2000,
23:54
so it was almost the ' 90s. Um, and I remember as looking at and I I already
23:59
knew what D and D was because I've only ever had nerdy boyfriends, so I knew what that was. Um, and yeah, I can I
24:08
remember knowing like I know that's nonsense, but I know why they're worried about it. You know, this whole sort of
24:14
demonic thing. Oh my good, you know, all of that. Yeah. Well, it it um got a lot of
24:20
negative publicity in the early 80s from a lot of Christian groups. Yeah. who there was also the film as well, Maze
24:25
and Monsters. Yes. Tom Hanks, which is all about a group where someone has a breakdown basically
24:31
and someone goes missing. Well, that that was based on a true story or or you know, like a true story
24:36
like um like most horror films are based on a true story, you know, in that um that was later discredited by um the So,
24:44
it it follows a person who can't separate fantasy from reality and there are those people out there,
24:51
aren't there? But that's the thing, like if you get if you any any group of people where you haven't got to take a
24:57
test to get in it, there are going to be some weird people in that group, right? Regardless of you just need to hang around a a comic
25:02
book shop for any length of time and your point is proven 100%. But that can be any group.
25:07
Oh yeah. Like you know it's any group you don't have to take a test to prove that like who kind of your you know your
25:14
mentality. Um you're going to get some in there regardless. And um
25:21
and I think it it's kind of it's got a similar kind of board game adjacency, hasn't it? It's going to it's going to
25:28
kind of appeal to slightly insular. Yes. Like you know, kind of house cats rather
25:34
than people that are going walking in woods and doing outdoory type things. Cuz for for our younger listeners, if
25:40
you had a PC at home, you were a nerd. Can you remember that when like oh my
25:45
god you've got a computer geek that was not a good thing but I think it it also it's one of those hobbies I mean
25:53
board games to an extent but I think now it's too mainstream that board games don't have
26:00
the the stinking legacy of nerdiness has gone away whereas D&D's always had it anytime anybody talks anytime you see
26:06
mainstream D and D on the news they hawk out this 1970s clip of three accountant
26:12
men in shirts going and hello. Yes, we like to come together and roll dice and go, "Dude, seriously?"
26:17
Adoid nasal problem. Yeah. And it it that is an image that's never left. No. Well, yeah, but it's perpetuated by
26:23
by people all the time. Well, it is. And and Stranger Things, to be fair, hasn't done a lot for that in terms of it's still this small group of
26:29
nerdy kids playing D and D and you got like the likes of Eddie, but but nerd culture now so much more
26:34
acceptable. Oh, yeah. It's it's very it's very different and it's got his own movement, but it's outside looking in that's all they see.
26:41
Yeah. And I mean the concept that people of my age in the early 50s are playing
26:47
things like this is is a concept that most people can't grasp. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And I think that is a stigma
26:53
left over from from that time because it it spanned I think 74. I mean it's
27:00
50 years old. It's one year after I was born. Exactly. Like it's it's been around a long time. And back then as well, you
27:07
know, nerd culture wasn't what it was now. like to the point where I I just had a quick look on Wikipedia about D
27:14
and D because I don't know the history of it. I haven't I've been playing it for for just over a year now, but again
27:20
I don't know I didn't know a lot of the history. Um and it was saying then that people who played it face social
27:26
ostracism uh unfair treatment and false association with with the occult and satism. Yeah.
27:32
And I think there that obviously people now know that people don't worship the devils and this is the point some people
27:38
probably do. They probably don't play D and D. But in the same way that there are some football fans who probably follow Satan
27:43
and there are some ballerinas who probably do you know what I mean? There's enough real world nastiness out
27:49
there. You don't need to go looking for it and trying to create a hysteria that's not there. 100%. But I think you know I've said
27:55
before to somebody that I've pulled D and D and the face that they pulled was like, "Oh yeah, I like licking my own
28:00
toes." Do you know what I mean? Is that same what Yeah. I mean, it's it took me a long time before I was comfortable telling
28:06
people I play board games or do D and D because you just you just know the reaction you're going to get and the way
28:12
they're going to look at you and you just think I can't be dealing with that. But I mean, if you actually think about it, Dn D is probably one of the oldest art
28:18
forms because it's just advanced storytelling. Yeah. And human beings have been telling stories since the beginning of time. I
28:24
think that that fact is lost on a lot of people potentially who who haven't experienced it before cuz
28:30
the first D and D session I did Chris Ninja um volunteered like really bravely in my
28:37
opinion to DM a session and he'd never done it before. He he I think he played before like loosely but he said I'll DM
28:44
a session. Um, and of course he's dealing with like six people who who want to go off and do these weird things
28:51
and and he he did a brilliant job for his kind of level of expertise in it's
28:56
like trying to wrangle cats in it, you know? It's just it still is. Trust me, it still is. Exactly. And you've got so
29:01
much experience in it. Um, and that was my kind of first experience messing around with it a little bit. I bought a
29:07
starter kit and and we just did it. And I think then realizing that
29:12
there doesn't have to be any hard rules at this. You don't have to be an incredible storyteller to play this
29:18
game. It it it helps with uh with a lot of things, especially the impromptu stuff, which we'll get to in a little
29:24
bit. Um but I but I think there's, you know, there's definitely a skill level,
29:29
but but it is ultimately improv. Yeah, it's ultim, you know, it's kind of on that fly on, sorry, on the fly
29:36
storytelling. Um, and I I kind of liken it to an interactive
29:42
book that's going on in in people's heads. It's that shared collective of making up a story,
29:47
group, choose your own adventure. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. So So with that, Stu, that leads quite nicely because you've been
What led Stewart to becoming a DM & why?
29:53
DMing for how long? Um, consistently now since co.
29:58
Since co. Yeah. So already that's 5 years which is how can it be 5 years mental cuz we keep blacking that bit out the
30:04
year. Is that like 2 years ago? No, there were a few in between. We don't talk about those. Yeah, we don't we don't we don't
30:10
we all deserve a bit of a refund from those years, don't we? Oh, 100%. Definitely. So I mean you're you're our DM and you
30:17
do a wonderful job. Um but kind of what led you to becoming first of all, so
30:22
yeah, what led you to becoming a DM? And secondly, do you prefer DMing in the the
30:29
control element? Control the project management oversight control
30:35
of everything happening or do you would you prefer to play but you've you've almost got too, you know, comfortable in
30:41
that DM role that that you don't really get the opportunity to play anymore? I think I DM.
30:49
There's one probably driving reason. I have an active imagination. It's never off. It's it's always on. I mean I mean
30:55
I've done you know if we've played a board game that's grabbed my imagination I'll do a little write up for it because my brain just goes
31:01
which now people because of Discord people can read. Yes. As well which and they are fantastic. They are fantastic.
31:06
So my brain's always doing that. I mean I could literally you know walk the dog see an old tree see a squirrel and then suddenly there's a squirrel. Perhaps
31:12
there's a clan of squirrels. Perhaps there's two clans of squirrels. Perhaps there's a sacred tree. Perhaps there's some rats trying to undermine the tree. And just literally and two steps later
31:19
I've forgotten it's gone. So my brain's never off. So storytelling is kind of there in my head. DMing fits with that.
31:26
And typically if I want to do D and D, there isn't a DM around. So if I want to
31:31
do it, I'm doing it. And I'm fine with that because it to be honest, I'm not
31:37
that fussed about playing. I'd probably want to play, but because I've done so much DMing now, and I'm not a pro by any
31:43
sense, because I know so much of what's in the background and I've read so much source material,
31:48
I probably wouldn't be a good player because I'd want to know more or my inner head would be going, "Oh, I
31:53
wouldn't want to do that. What have you, what have you rolled or what have you done? I'm not sure you were playing that right." And I don't think I'd be a good
31:59
player. So, I'd much rather just DM now because I'm comfortable with it and I'm it's enough of it and I've got a screen
32:04
to hide behind when you guys drive me mad. So, it's time. you don't hide very well because we can still see your face
32:10
like a for sake. I mean, yeah, it's we'll get on to it a bit later, but yeah, it is the one golden
32:17
rule. It really doesn't matter what you plan, they're not going to do it. Yeah. No, after after playing our
32:23
campaign, we've experienced some some kind of interesting choices. Yeah. I mean, shall we say, just defies
32:29
logic beyond any measure whatsoever. I mean, D and D is fantasy. D and D is being what you want to be, being that
32:34
character. I mean it it's whatever you've seen on telly, whatever you've read, whatever you've got in your head, whether you know it's princess and
32:40
flowers or whether it's some raging barbarian with two syllable sentences and stuff like that. It's whatever you want to be, but you still assume at some
32:47
point a human brain is in there somewhere doing logical stuff and it's like, no, that's an assumption on your part.
32:54
Yes, that was a very bad assumption. So, Becky, after having your kind of
Beckys first proper D&D experience
33:00
first, would it say fair to say proper play through so far? Yeah. So this the session I did a long
33:05
time ago with our friend Jason. He was a great DM cuz he's in a similar there is maybe quite a lot of sort of
33:11
correlation. So he's very the storytelling the ideas. So that he was a really he was a really good DM. Um and
33:18
he worked in crackers so he had all access to all the stuff. So that was probably quite helpful. Um but yeah I
33:24
you I think just the sheer amount of work that the DM puts into things must
33:30
be phenomenal. And I think so it must be quite annoying when the players don't do
33:35
what you want them to do to end up going to the thing. But hopefully that can be recycled. Like we've had a chat about
33:40
how that kind of works. And yeah, you can recycle some stuff, I guess. But I think the the the interesting thing for
33:48
me is yeah, you don't you don't quite know how these things are going to turn out, which is kind of like life, isn't
33:53
it? you've got a group of four people or however many you've got um and you're
33:59
you're making up a story at the time and it I think it's a really good way of kind of in the same way that board games
34:05
do it. It's you can learn about confrontation and you can practice it without it being real life and having a
34:14
any not any sort of um ramifications
34:19
ramifications. Thank you. Yeah. So you can practice that kind of stuff and you can kind of because I think I'm
34:24
definitely better at conflict and not at conflict at um dealing with other people's conflict perhaps and getting
34:31
into it rather than being completely avoidant and that's definitely due to board game and like I said I've not done
34:37
enough D and D for that to make a big impact on me. But I think there's definitely some of that there you can practice doing these things and the kind
34:43
of negotiation thing because it's that's what you have to do for these games. Yeah. And ultimately it will come
34:49
down to a dice roll anyway. So you and I've got a D30 and student like it. Our fireball is always the answer
34:56
without question. But but but the orphanage hasn't cleared. You know what I said? Such a great meme.
35:04
I love it. Yeah. It's just I mean Yeah, fireballs. I just ban those for life. I I heard once it's not about the the
35:11
battle. It's not about the battling. It's not even about the story. It's about the war crimes that you're you and
35:16
your best friends. your lovely nice friends are going to commit along this journey. That's what it's all about while doing it.
35:21
Exactly. Exactly. So Becky raised an amazing point there is obviously the
35:26
amount of work that goes into this. Now I know this because of our private conversations
35:32
and I guess it's something that I didn't really take into account of how much time it takes from from your point
35:39
of view as our DM. And when you told me this, I was like, "Oh I need to up my game a little bit and appreciate the
35:47
story a little bit more." Um, so obviously we were playing what, once a
35:52
Fortnite? Yeah, we were pretty much averaging once a Fortnite until And how much time do you put into
The reality of prep time for D&D sessions
35:57
preparing for an event? So one of our D&D sessions is what, two and a half, three hours typically. Um,
36:03
prep time for that session, depending on what we've got and what we're doing is probably around 5 hours.
36:10
on top of that, which is almost like a part-time job on top of a job that you're not getting paid for.
36:15
No, I mean it depends what I'm doing and I mean there are a number of there's all kinds of resources out there. I use um
36:21
slow flourish um has the lazy DM's guide which is just quick ways to do prep and cut prep time down and it is very good
36:28
and there are lots of ways to do it. I'm not there yet. But the thing is, you turn up with your characters and I'm
36:35
going to put stuff in front of you and there's an implicit bargain that says I will put things in front of you and you
36:40
will choose to do those. And that's that's kind of the deal here because I mean if it's like, "Oh, that's a spooky
36:46
cave with some dodgy noises in. Let's go back to the pub." That's not really how this works. There is an expectation that
36:51
the phrase is, "Grab the torches, boys. We're going in." So there's there's a little bit of I'm going to put stuff here. I'm expecting you to do this. But
36:59
at the same time, I want to give you choice. I want to give you options. So, if there's a fork left and right, I want
37:05
you to go left because there's the village and all the characters and there's your next set of breadcrumbs for your trail. Guaranteed one of you
37:10
muppets, he's going to go, "Actually, I want to go into the woods and find some herbs." Oh, for sake. And I've got nothing for that. So, I have to try
37:17
and cover off some bases and then have something in reserve. And a lot of my
37:23
prep time is also we use a tabletop. I've got maps and stuff. I've got little tokens because I think it's easier for
37:28
guys to visualize D and D's theater of the mind is a big thing. But when you're doing combat and you're trying to work out distances and placing, having
37:35
something to visualize just to make it easier. Yeah. So, I put a bit of time into I don't need to do that. That's a choice I do,
37:40
but it makes it easier for everybody to see what's going on. And I guess it saves being badgered by
37:46
So, so how far away am I away from this creature? Just measure. Even then, I put on like a nerdy voice.
37:51
I don't know why it's me doing it. That's why you're putting on the nerdy voice. Well, yeah, there is that. So yeah, I
37:56
mean prep time is every every DM is different. I mean I don't do a lot of world building. I use a lot of pre-prepared resources and I just blend
38:04
it with what I'm thinking or what I know you guys are doing. So I I I it's a mix of world building and a mix of someone
38:10
else's resources and stuff I've just nicked. I mean D and D half the time you nick it from books, films, anything you've seen that you want to do.
38:16
But the films, books and TV series nicked it from D and D. Yeah. In the first place. Like it's almost entirely so.
38:22
There is no new stories. Yeah. Yeah. just recycled. So, because I I mentioned on the last podcast the the
38:29
episode that we did um the the Halloween mansion thing, those porcelain dolls were horrific
38:36
and I mentioned them as well. The fact that you actually screamed out loud at one point. Well, it just it just shows how how rich
38:44
a a world Stu is creating. Um Okay. Yes, I am terrible at a jump scare, not going to lie. Um, but it
38:52
you're kind of listening you and you saw a bit like when you're watching a film, you know, the spooky music started,
38:57
somebody's going to jump out from behind that bush, tree, window, whatever. But I
39:02
still jump every time because because that's what it's designed to do. It was great. That's why it's designed. It was so good. And And we all laughed
39:09
about it afterwards cuz And not laughed. We didn't laugh at you. They laughed at me. No, we didn't at all. We we we laughed
39:16
at the fact that Stuart managed to do this. And that's because that's because I was I was there.
39:21
But you weren't the only one. All five of us were. And and it was literally telegraphed. It was like, you know, it's
39:26
coming. That's what made it. You could have had the scary music playing that. You could have had that. And I But I would have still because I
39:31
was I was absorbed in which is the kind of the whole point of it. I think this is not something for people who are not
39:37
prepared to get invested and involved. If you don't want to do it, please don't waste your time on everybody else's.
39:42
And I'm not talking like turn up and stay in character the whole time. Please don't come. Well, well, actually, you could come on in and
39:48
Dave, if you're listening, please don't. Davey plays a very stinky wood elf.
39:55
Mushroom druid. Mushroom druid. So, yeah. No, he's not. He's not coming around.
40:00
Yeah. But this is in all seriousness, you do have to part of it. You have to kind of do a little bit of collabing with your the teammates like, "Oh, we're
40:07
doing this D." But I think if you're not going to be invested and actually give a crap,
40:12
just don't waste your own time. And more importantly, don't waste the DM's time because they put a lot of effort into
40:18
it. And that's that point is is obviously have a laugh, have fun, but if you're then
40:24
uh kind of ruining the DM experience to a degree, it's a very collective thing, right? If someone's having
40:30
together, you're play you're making a bargain with each other. We're going to focus on this and we're going to do the thing. And if if you're not,
40:36
that that's fine. But then it it's a bit like playing a 4hour game and going,
40:41
"Oh, I don't think I'm really winning, so I'm just going to leave in an hour." Like, you could
40:47
still play, but it's not going to be the same. And that's just a bit of a dick move unless
40:52
like, you know, you have to because your house is on fire or something, but it's still a dick move, isn't it?
40:58
We're going to finish the game. But my games are burning. Well, we started the session. You cast fireball, live with it. Yeah.
41:05
But I mean it's I mean it's one of those things I think it's one of the pitfalls that a lot of starting DMs find is you
A lot of pitfalls for starting DMs
41:10
go online and you watch Matthew Mercer and Vox Macker and you watch I I mean I watch High Rollers as a stream and there
41:17
you watch Matt Coleville and various other streamers doing streams and you try and deliver that. Don't that's not
41:24
your group that's not your style. Play to your group. I mean I like our charact I like our people to stay engaged and
41:31
sort of get with the story. And our Halloween, we had a bunch of new players there, but everybody was kind of trying to be the characters. And these were
41:37
just pre-made ones we just set for the session. So, they weren't ones they own, but they were still trying to do it.
41:42
Even though they knew, you know, I'm putting a door in front of you. Yes, you're going to have to go through the door. That's the deal.
41:48
I wanted to just run away when we got the the the creepy voice kid. Yeah, that's the one. Let's just run away. So, but it doesn't
41:54
have to be rigid. I mean, we have downtime at our game table. There will be little bits of side conversation. You just have to find that balance of one of
42:01
the key things of a DM is I know what I know. You don't know until I tell you. So, you have to let me tell you so that
42:08
you can then decide what you want to do. And if you're all busy talking about next week's dinner or tonight's meal and stuff, then that's a problem. But I
42:15
don't expect people to be in character from the minute they sit down to the minute they leave. You got to find a balance because everybody's there to have fun. And if you're not there to
42:21
have fun, then there is no point doing it. It does get to a point where you're like, we really need to crack on with this now. like you know if if we have
42:28
kind of gone off tangent a little bit because I think as well the more time you spend playing it like the beginning
42:34
is always a bit like but you're kind of warming up aren't you? Yeah. And and it gets to a point where
42:39
you you know you're having fun you're making decisions and you know that it's coming thick and fast and before you
42:46
know it you're you're kind of waist deep in an adventure that you know we we spent an entire session trying to cross
42:52
a creek once. Yeah. It was brilliant. And and to be honest, my favorite D and D session was
42:58
when we went to the county fair. I know. Did you win a goldfish in a
43:04
No, I fell off a mechanical ball. I could Okay, I don't want to know what your
43:09
saving role was for that. It wasn't great. I mean, any of his roles aren't great. Rob is terrible with dice. It really is.
43:15
It's one of the weird things of D and D that I have found quite a lot. And again, so I'm not, you know, massively experienced and don't run loads and
43:21
loads of groups, but players love making characters more than they love playing with them.
43:27
I've already decided who my next charact if people don't turn up to a session with at least three other characters in their back pocket, I'll be very
43:33
surprised. And players love a shopping trip. They will quite happily spend an
43:38
entire episode in a city shopping, buying stuff. Well, for no other reason than that. And so
43:44
yeah, every now and again I will throw in something like a fairground where it's an eating competition and a drinking competition and a bit of
43:49
it's just kind of a port for fun, isn't it? They're all skill challenges. There's no bad case scenario and you do get into it
43:55
and it's ridiculous the amount of excitement people get into trying to win it and all this kind of stuff I guess because before I've only ever
44:01
experienced story battle story battle story battle and then paid.
44:07
Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And and so to do something like that and I was like oh this is brilliant. It's probably you
44:13
have in a video game, isn't it? It's like the side quest. That nice little fun random. I think it was it in Fable they had like a guitar game or a card
44:19
game or Oh, there's so many in Fable. Yeah. And you you're playing your main thing and you're trying to achieve your stuff, but every now and again it's
44:25
nice to just have a little jolly bit very different as well. Yeah. So, um and we were doing and I I love chucking
44:31
dice. I think that's like you do, but you'd think you'd be better at it, mate, cuz you are rubbish. Oh, come on. I get enough from him
44:36
without It's not your fault, mate. You You're just unlucky.
44:41
Tell me about it. You're rolling it the same as everybody else. You're not doing it wrong. No, he isn't. You're right.
44:46
Really not. How do you mess it up so many times? I love the fact you're It's a dice roll. Well, yeah, but yours are terrible. So,
44:53
what are you doing? I don't know. Are you not like giving him enough love or are you just I'm not I don't think I'm praying to the
44:59
dice gods hard enough. Maybe. I I think I think they blocked your number.
Getting started in creating characters
45:06
That's very fair. So, in regards to starting then, you were talking about character creation. Um, I didn't realize
45:14
that all you lit as a as a player, not as a DM, but you literally just need a player's handbook. And I don't think
45:19
that's even a main requirement for online. Yeah, the starter kit will do it. I
45:25
bought the the the players handbook just because there was a lot of stuff in there that I wasn't aware of. And when
45:31
we started playing it, sort of Taz, Davey, Rich, they all had their copies and I was like, I really want a copy. I
45:36
bought I bought a copy of it. Funny enough, I don't own it anymore, which is really ridiculous, but I wish I did,
45:41
but it was like I don't know, was it third ed or fifth ed? I I can't remember what. Yeah, it might be the third.
45:46
They're probably about 50th ed now. Well, originally back in the day, the reason Dn D got so much heat was cuz it
45:52
depicted naked breasts. Shock horror. Shock horror. I mean,
45:58
typically they were on Succubi and Harpies, which I mean, that's a tough wank. Yeah, but I mean to be fair, you
46:05
don't look at you don't look at the mantpiece while you're stoking the fire. Oh, yeah. But still, um, but that that that kind of it all kind of went into
46:13
the hype, but the artwork of D and D, I suppose, for for an imaginative game,
46:18
the artwork is incredible. Yeah. I I I you know, the amount of detail and
46:24
stuff that are in those books unnecessarily. So, you don't need to see pictures and and things cuz again, it's
46:29
all happening in your head. But um I bought the I bought the players handbook just because it can be quite
46:36
overwhelming. Very similar to kind of Boulders's Gate. The the the amount of stuff you can do is well it's
46:42
ridiculous, right? I think I might buy one for my friend. I think with me I mean I know everybody goes out and they buy the players
46:48
handbook and they buy all this. To be honest, I wouldn't. I would just get one of the starter kits. It gives you enough to get comfortable with it and then once
46:54
you get comfortable with it then you can buy the books because the books can be overwhelming. There's all kinds of stuff and I mean
46:59
and then you start getting Tashas and then you get Xanithiles and then there's like 25 versions and then you're getting dual classes and it just goes.
47:06
Yeah. And I mean I use I still use Roll 20 which is a digital BTT platform.
47:11
Other ones are available. Um VTT two virtual tabletop virtual tabletop VTT
47:18
to um generate characters because it does it all for you and then you can just produce the PDS which is what I did for our Halloween specials um because I
47:26
don't have to think about it. If you actually try and build one from scratch where you're rolling the dice and you're going through and adding up all the multipliers, it takes ages at times when
47:34
you're trying to figure out I'm a class. Okay, I got to pick this proficiency that does that and that that goes over there. That's my saving throw.
47:39
It's a bit of a nightmare. Yeah. So, yeah, don't Yeah, don't rush out to get all the stuff cuz you'll look at it
47:45
and just get overwhelmed. That's fair. Yeah, I think if it wasn't for your help setting up my first
47:50
character, I think yeah, that book probably would have been too much. Um, but also there's uh there's there's
47:57
plenty of online options as well that that you can get you could get enough material quite easily. Oh, very easily. Yeah.
48:03
Uh, my daughter wanted to start playing, so I had to create four car her character and three other characters
48:09
from scratch. And it literally took me like two weekends. Yeah, it was ridiculous. So, there's something quite nice about
48:15
crafting a character, though. And I said it's one of the things players love doing more than playing.
48:20
It's bizarre, but it is. And and I'm with a DM, I'm kind of the same. I like creating NPCs. I like creating little
48:28
clever plot bits. I like crafting custom magic items for my players that are
48:33
exactly tailored for their kind of character builds because it just makes it more interesting.
48:38
See, you act like the big meanie. I'm going to kill your characters. Oh, no. They've all got a twist.
48:45
There's always a little something. I gave someone once a cursed haunted ragd doll. Oh, what is it with you and the
48:52
horrible dancell? So, it's really good. So, I gave it to this character and it starts off okay
48:58
and it would just talk to her in her head and then it started to turn her against the group and she kept leaving it behind
49:05
and the next night at the camp it would turn up again. Oh god, that's and she she had it for about four weeks before I let her get rid of it.
49:11
That's amazing. Burn it in a fire. All it was just a creepy doll. It didn't do anything. It was just a creepy doll.
49:16
Yeah, but just the thought of it is doing enough to me. Thank you. I don't want that.
49:22
So, you mentioned earlier as well about the the kind of premier campaigns that
49:27
are going on right now, the Vox Mackenas, the um the Mighty N, which is the same game
49:33
group um and the High Rollers uh and things like that. So, as an episodic
49:40
listen, I love the storytelling. So, I've not listened to any of these. Have you Have you heard of Volk Mina?
49:47
Isn't that a animated TV series? So the animated series is their first campaign.
49:53
Oh, I see. And they're all professional voice actors. I see. So that the the the production of their
49:59
D and D group is is incredible. I see. So I guess I'd kind of like you said,
50:06
like if I was going to be a DM, I'd instantly that that's what I'd lean to, but that isn't in my wheelhouse. I'm not
50:13
I'm not even capable of half of the things they that they do and they've been playing for you know god knows how long. Yeah. I mean there are a number of
50:19
things you have to consider is that you know the likes of Matt Mercer, Marshall Humes, these are guys who have lived and
50:24
breathed D and D for decades and are you know they contribute to official written material. They produce D and D source
50:30
books and stuff. These are you know these are pros and like you said particularly the 99 Vox Mack these are actors. So these are people who designed
50:36
to do this kind of output. The High Rollers group are actually all based in Bristol. Um, and I really like
50:43
them and they've got some really wellcrafted campaigns. They're on their third one now and there's a lot of depth to it and when they're playing they're
50:48
largely, you know, in character all the time and playing it and stuff. But again, it's a show. It's designed to
50:54
showcase it. I use it as a reference for certain scenarios like if there's going to be a big complex battle and there's
50:59
going to be stuff going on with the terrain and things like I want to see how they handle it. If there's going to be some sort of puzzles or travel or
51:05
stuff like that. There are things I use it for just as a reference point, but I would never use it to learn because it's just a level too high for
51:12
what I need for my group and the people I'm playing with. So, Becky, when you when when you
How does a relevative newbie feel going into D&D for the first time
51:18
started your first campaign as a as a relative newbie? What What were you
51:23
thinking and feeling going into it? Was it was it a little bit self-conscious? A little bit cuz I know I I know I was
51:29
when I when I first play through when you turned to me and was like, "Right, guys, what are you going to do?" And I'm
51:35
like, uh, I think the people around the table, I'm I'm not noted for my, um,
51:43
shy nature. Um, well, yeah, I've just realized I've never put
51:49
those two words together when when referring to as a child. I was very shy, but I don't remember that. Um, I'm not known for my
51:56
sort of Yeah. Um, retiring kind of, and that's not I mean, I am a gobby cow.
52:02
That's not what I'm saying. But I don't mind looking stupid. That Christ, if I minded looking stupid, I would have I
52:10
would have Yeah, I'm I'm very very clumsy. I'm always doing something that's and I'm okay with that. And I'm
52:16
the first one to say, look, like, you know, at work, look guys, I haven't done this before, so I I you know, I don't know. I'm happy to look like the person
52:22
that doesn't know, and I'm fine with that. So, I wasn't worried about I wasn't feeling self-conscious. I wasn't worried
52:29
about that really. I guess the most I was worried about is oh is my friend going to like this because she'd never
52:35
played at all. So that was my it wasn't a concern particularly cuz I knew she'd like it but I I was more concerned that
52:41
like I made sure that she had the dice in the right order cuz I knew that she'd feel a bit like oh I don't know what a d20 is. So I was trying to make that
52:48
kind of thing easier for her. Um whereas if I'd have been completely brand new at it I wouldn't have cared that I didn't know which dice was which cuz I'm not
52:54
bothered about not knowing. Um that's why I'm so poor at games. I'm not I need to care more about
52:59
about going, damn it, this is where I've been going. But that could ruin your experience for games. Maybe. Maybe. Um, and I think I really
53:06
liked the fact that we weren't level one, so we had a little bit of ability. Yeah.
53:12
Um, I think it would have been better had I done my homework a bit more and researched more into my um,
53:20
you know, the the your class. Yeah. Class and weapons. But again, I'm not noted for doing my homework um, very
53:27
effectively. So, I'm more than happy to just make it. I love I love the fact that it's only
53:32
you that's guilty of D and D homework not being done because she's shaking his head. It's really not. I mean, I I because
53:39
obviously there were a bunch of newbies at the table. I did produce a lot of references to material. I'm sure somebody read it. I don't know who.
53:46
No, we we did read the what you mean the like the diary entries and stuff. Yes. Or you mean the the actual
53:52
these are all the dice you've got and this is what you're going to use. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I read all of that, but I did know those things
53:58
mostly. So, I was okay about that. I was okay about that. Um, and
54:04
I think it was nice that, yeah, like I say, Stuart made these characters because I think, yes, I would absolutely have gone involved in making my
54:11
character and probably spent far too long doing that or maybe then got bored halfway through and not finished. So, it was nice that there was a pre-made
54:17
character that did seem to be the kind of thing I would be interested in doing. I think what I'm always trying to
54:23
recreate when I play this kind of thing is a favorite character in a book that I've read before. I want to be that
54:29
person because that was she was cool or he was cool or whatever. So there was a
54:34
se there was a and I think probably the first D and D I ever did ever long time ago. I was probably trying to recreate the same thing. There's a book by Juliet
54:40
E. McKenna called a thief's gamble which is about a woman who you get the
54:46
impression that maybe back in history a bit maybe there was bit of elf fish going you know that kind of obviously very attractive probably I don't know
54:55
mid20s I guess and she was like a thief but then kind of got kind of blackmailed
55:01
into being a thief for a group so she knew all kind of the dodgy people in town it's like I want to be that
55:08
person and that's always kind of the character that I'm trying to recreate. I think it's like Livak in that book is
55:14
really cool, so I want to pretend to be that person. That's fair, though. But that's the thing with D and D. You can do that.
55:19
Exactly. Yeah. And then you named her Princess Donut. Yes. Well, I named her Princess Donut because of anybody that's listened to
55:25
podcast and has heard me talking about Dungeon Crawler Carl knows that if you're going to be a cat humanoid
55:31
person, you've got no other option but to call yourself Princess Donut. You two haven't read it and you're
55:36
missing out. What about the book that I've been banging on to you about for the last six years through that book you
55:42
got? I will read I will read it. I will. I like books. But you wait till you've read it. You'll be
55:48
calling all your characters Princess Donut. No, they won't. Have you read any of the D and D books?
55:54
No. Drist and and all those. No. Um it's interesting enough for any of the sort of
56:00
novel actual stories I' I've not read. The only stories I read are the source materials. I do research some bits and
56:06
pieces if I'm looking at a particular story arc, but I've never read any of the actual content that's just, you
56:11
know, there for reading purposes like Drizz and all that stuff. And to be honest, I I Drizz it had even passed me
56:17
by until I started getting more into some of the aspects where it became relevant. I've listened to it cuz I used to listen
56:22
to books cuz I was doing so much driving. And that's how I became aware of what
56:27
the Underdark is in in the in this in the D&D universe and and kind of the the the races that live in the Underdark.
56:34
Um, so the fact that when I got there in Boulders Gate, I was like, "Ah, I know all this." And and when you when you
56:40
know in your campaign when you're talking about the Underdark and and that it's very dangerous and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm staying the hell away
56:46
from there until I'm a few levels higher." And then seeing it in the movies and I just love how there are so
56:53
many stories to tell in that universe, almost endless. Yeah.
56:59
And yet there are certain things there are certain pillars of that universe that don't really change
57:05
through through the telling of those stories. I think that's the mark of a good story though, isn't it? It's got these certain landmarks that kind of anchor you to a
57:12
thing. Yes. Because if it's something is completely open world, it it's almost too much, isn't it? You need these kind of becomes something separate then,
57:18
doesn't it? Yeah. You need these certain either tropes or common things that everybody knows like
57:23
folklore or whatever and it kind of ties you in. It makes you a little bit more hemmed in with what can happen or what
57:29
can't happen or what people think about things. If it was completely free for all, that makes it too too open. I think
57:37
you got that shared understanding though, haven't you? The shared reference points that like you you know you all know what water deep is.
57:43
I do now. Because of the game, right? Well, you know what water deep is, Becky? Because of the great game. The greatest.
57:49
It's not the greatest game. I just want to game. It's a good game. But again, you know, that's
57:55
but that's what put me off playing it as I've mentioned many times because of the stupid artwork and it's like boring like
58:00
just fighting, not interested. Yeah. And that isn't what D and D is either, is it? It Well, I mean D and D is whatever you
D&D can be whatever you want it to be
58:05
want it to be. And if if you've got a bunch of players who are all want to be whack axe wielding
58:11
barbarians, trudging through dungeons, slaying goblins left, right, center all day, every day, there are ways you can
58:17
do that. Yeah, it'll get old real quick. But if that's what your group wants to do, that's what you do. But you don't have that's not
58:25
the only thing you can do. You don't have to you can do entire three four sessions where you don't see a single
58:30
creature you want to hit with a stick. It's there's there's any number of ways you can do it. And I think
58:37
if you look at the evolution, so when I was a lad back in the day, so obviously I came to D and D in the in the 80s in
58:44
the days of the what they call the red box. So they used to come in little boxes and there was a red box which was the basic and the blue box expert
58:50
turquoise box was companion, black box was masters and then the gold box was immortals and that was basically
58:56
evolving through the levels and becoming more and more powerful to like godlike status. By the time they got to like companion, they'd lost their way and it
59:01
was just no one ever really played to that level. But all the basic stuff and the expert stuff has stayed through time
59:07
and it's still there. But it's never been just roll dice, hit things with sword, move on, find treasure, come back
59:14
out. There's more to And if you look at all the richness of the source material now there are any I mean there's an
59:20
anthology book came up called candle keep mysteries which is about this fantastic library structure and there
59:26
are a number of different adventures in there and one of them is basically like serving a m solving a murder mystery in
59:32
a beauty salon. So okay I mean that that's not D and D trope in anybody's imagination.
59:38
It's not what you think when you hear D. No it's but that it's it's a world and it's there for everybody and there are any number of things that are there. You
59:44
can make it what you want. And that's the good thing about it because it's just storytelling. There's a framework.
59:49
Use the bits you want. Don't use the other bits. There's no hard and fast rules. It's it's the one thing that makes board
59:54
games more constrained. There are rules. You can only move so far. You can only take so many resources. You can only go
1:00:00
to so many spots. DND doesn't have that. As long as you agree what you want to do and don't want to do,
1:00:06
do what you like. It's like you got to agree on your safe words and then in that kind of
1:00:11
parameter, then it's fine. But that is a serious point. I mean I that is probably the one serious point I would say is we
1:00:17
talk about how you start in session zero and stuff and you talk about what kind of campaign you want. Do you want a mix of narrative and combat? Do you want a
1:00:23
lot of combat? Do you want a lot of mysteries? Do you want a convoluted plot? Do you just want to do free form oneshotss every now and again? You do
1:00:30
need to talk about the topics you do and don't want to cover. And if people have genuine phobas, phobias about spiders,
1:00:35
confined spaces, creepy dolls, you need to get that out creepy dolls
1:00:41
because the last thing you want to do is traumatize one of your players while you're doing it. So, you do need to have some grown-up conversations, which is
1:00:46
why session zero is quite important just to set the boundaries of what everybody wants out of this and what everybody's comfortable with just
1:00:52
to be sensible. It doesn't have to be heavy or complicated. You just need has anybody got any phobias I need to know about so that you don't freak someone
1:00:59
out mid session like so there are a couple of things you need to think about. Yeah, the sessions are whatever you want them to be. What do you think about gaining your
1:01:05
DM's alignment? Now, that's going to sound really nerdy, but there's there there's certain class
1:01:12
alignments. So, you can be evil bad, you can be lawful, neutral, lawful, good, and then the whole range
1:01:19
in between. So, you can be, you know, kind of it's a kind of
1:01:25
a thought process for your character. It's like one of the kind of 16 personalities kind of types, isn't it?
1:01:30
Yeah. Yeah. So, but it's but it's on like a on an axis like you say. But I saw a video the other day and it
1:01:36
was like you should always get your DMs alignment because if they're evil bad, they're going to
1:01:42
really try and mess you up and try and not kill your character but but like kind of make it incredibly difficult for
1:01:48
you cuz that's what they find fun. Or you've got the other one where they're just like, you know, we're good and
1:01:54
anything you do poor in anything bad that your character does in that campaign potentially you're going to get
1:02:00
punished for because you've pissed off the DM who is ultimately in control of the your entire universe.
1:02:06
What do we think Stu is? Maybe chaotic neutral. I think he's going to say one thing, but I think he's different.
1:02:12
It's Well, it's weirdly enough because I mean alignments is one thing I don't pay a lot of attention to. Yeah. mostly because you watch players
1:02:20
pick their characters and they come up with this idea of who they want to be, you know,
1:02:25
Captain Jack Sparrow and all this kind of stuff. And I'm going to pick the alignment to do these kind of things.
1:02:31
But it only takes a couple of sessions before they're basically playing themselves with a twist.
1:02:37
And the alignment and the traits. So when one of the things you do when you can set characters now is you have these four personality traits of your goals,
1:02:43
your flaws, and all this kind of stuff. And you can get them, you write them yourself or you can get them generated and people look and go, "Oh, yeah, that
1:02:49
makes sense." And within two sessions, they've gone. Half your backstory is gone, half that's gone because it's just
1:02:54
you with a twist or whatever you're doing. And you're having fun, but what you thought you were going to be doing with this character and your alignment
1:03:01
doesn't really exist. So, it's not something I think about. I'm actually
1:03:08
I'm not chaotic neutral. I'm probably I'm borderline lawful neutral because I'm very conscious about my players
1:03:15
having a good time. It it matters to me a lot. I mean, I sweated our first session with the noobs because I
1:03:21
thought, how do I know if they're enjoying this? Cuz I don't know them. I don't know what their facial expressions are like. I don't know what their temperaments are like. I need them to
1:03:27
have a good time. This is their first exposure. If I this up, they're never going to play again. And that's my fault and I don't want it to be like that.
1:03:32
But at the same time, a lot of pressure to put on yourself though, isn't it? That's a lot. It is cuz but if you think about it, I'm
1:03:38
setting up a scene and a situation for you guys to have fun. If I get this wrong, you don't have fun. And that's to
1:03:45
a degree on me. So, as a DM, you do you can put an awful lot of pressure on yourself. And to an extent, it's there
1:03:52
because you you are running you if you don't create the right vibe, then it's going to be a problem. It's only partly
1:03:58
on you, but I think yeah, I like my players to have time, good time, but I'm not going to make it easy for you
1:04:03
because my job is to let you be epic and epic isn't free. That's a great saying. Let you be epic.
1:04:11
Oh, that's brilliant. I love that. But that's this is one thing I think some DMs do make a mistake with. This is
1:04:17
not my story. I can create the world. I can create the scenarios and all these interesting characters and all this kind of stuff. It's not my story. It's yours.
1:04:25
I'm here to help you tell your story and be epic heroes. Heroes or dastardly
1:04:30
villains. That's what I'm there to do. And if I do that, you have a good time. I have a good time. Everybody wins.
1:04:36
I will kill you if you dick around. That also is a very good line.
1:04:44
I mean, yeah, there will be a fireball in a box if you're not careful or or a horrific demon in a box that
1:04:50
looks like a really interesting little little kind of puzzle. Oh, I think I've got the answer. Oh, brilliant. and you
1:04:55
open it and some that entire world of falls out. I mean, let's explore the scenario. Demon possesses child. Child draws
1:05:01
family mad. Family kill child. Imprisoned demon. And you find imprison the demon in a box.
1:05:07
I mean, have you never watched a horror film? No. It's like, oh, there's a You saw how much I jumped when you talked about the thing. Do you think
1:05:12
I've watched a horror film? I mean, it was literally like, "Oh, there's a strange shape in the woods. I'll go out on my own and see what it is. Bye."
1:05:20
But yeah, I mean that's part of the implied deal of you might know what this really is, but you're still going to
1:05:25
open it because Yes. Because that's the story. That's what we're here to do. Exactly. Yeah. So, there was no way that when we had two
1:05:31
options. We could look in the little little cubby hole or there's a there's a box on the table. Now, there was nothing
1:05:36
in the cubby hole. We were still going to go back to that box on the table and open it, whatever happened. So, I guess as well, it's that kind of
1:05:42
forced to be uncomfortable and kind of powering through it in that safe space. So, so like there can be
1:05:49
quite uncomfortable topics because because there are no rules and constraints within D and D and like you
1:05:54
said, especially if you don't set those boundaries in the beginning, you you
1:06:00
you've created a character, you're playing this character potentially, you know, for for years. So, you've invested
1:06:06
a lot of time, emotion, effort into this character. And if that character's put into a situation that you personally are
1:06:13
uncomfortable with, for some people that can be quite difficult to deal with. Yeah. So, I'm guessing that that kind of being
1:06:20
forced in those situations where you as a person are uncomfortable,
1:06:26
but you're still safe. Yeah. But I think you're kind of living through you're living vicariously,
1:06:31
aren't you? So, I guess when I read that book, the reason I liked the main character so much cuz she was cool. And
1:06:38
would I be in any way a ever able to be like her at all? No. She had a great poker face. She was slight of hand was
1:06:46
amazing. I fall over with without any shoes on. Like I this is not. So maybe it's it's my kind of I wish I was more
1:06:53
like that. Maybe that's what we're trying to create. Or you're kind of going for a a funny character. I I don't
1:06:59
know. Whatever. But my characters are always they're always going to be I don't know. maybe those characteristics
1:07:05
that I don't have that I think would be cool. Yeah. So, there's that fantasy element,
1:07:10
right? It's uh, you know, it's it's I want to be I want them to be like me but just a little bit better than me.
1:07:16
Yeah. I Everybody wants to be Yeah. that little extra. And the bottom line is nothing bad can happen. The worst case
1:07:22
scenario is you're going to have to roll some more dice and find a new character cuz this one's a kebab. The story's come to an end, right? And I
1:07:28
mean, but even that can be quite emotional if you if you've put in a lot of time and effort into a character. That could
1:07:34
almost be not not but like a little bit.
1:07:39
It can be. I could see I could see that people do get attached. And again, one of the session zero conversations is
1:07:44
where are we with death? Do you want death? Are you happy with that if your characters get killed or do you want to
1:07:51
avoid that? Because there are DM tricks for getting around it. There are ways of resurrecting characters and bringing them back or pulling your punches. You
1:07:58
can do whatever you want, but you just have to know where people's boundaries are. I mean, I asked you lot when we first started. I went, "No, it's fine.
1:08:03
All right. No one's that attached." So, well, we didn't know what I didn't know what I was doing. I think it was Taz is
1:08:09
what second game ever. I think Babies played quite a lot. Rich played quite a lot. So, um, but I didn't know what I was doing.
1:08:15
I didn't know that I was eventually going to quite like this character that was on paper in front of me at day one.
1:08:20
And now I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I get him. He's cool." And like you said, like I've tried to keep the backstory
1:08:27
relevant to my character, but at the same time, it's not a hill that I'm going to die on if if if it's the choice
1:08:34
between me having fun and sticking to the thematic rules. Well, I'm you know what I mean? I'm going to choose fun
1:08:39
every time. So, it's having fun within what you think. Well, for me, what my
1:08:46
character would do, and it's kind of aligning that if I've created like uh every a character who goes against
1:08:53
everything I stand for as a person, this is kind of what we were saying before. You're not going to be able to maintain it, are you? It's going to be a sucky play through
1:08:59
because if this character doesn't embody at least some traits that I like, kill him.
1:09:05
Just kill him off. And also, you can't make that like, as much as I'd like to pretend I would be able to play like an evil character, I
1:09:11
just know that I'm just not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to make those choices correctly because it's just not it's just not you
1:09:18
don't enjoy that. I'm not Yeah. Yeah. I'm not evil, which is why I'm not like that. You know, like one of my um
1:09:25
predetermined things was something like over a choice between money and my friends, I'll always choose money. And it's okay. I've got to try and think of
1:09:31
that when I'm making these decisions. because that is not my innate choice. I'm going to have to remind myself of
1:09:37
that all the time and perhaps do things differently than my
1:09:42
normal intuition or my normal choices would would be. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons I tell people not to get too
1:09:47
hung up on a lot of the the the stock stuff that can be provided to help flesh your characters out. Go with what you
1:09:53
want and if you don't know what you want, let it evolve because all I'm looking for is stuff I can hook into.
1:09:58
Because the one thing I will always try and do is if we've got a long campaign is I will hook things into your
1:10:04
character that somewhere in down the line you're going to run into someone from your past. You're going to run into something that's going to be important to you and there's going to be a whole
1:10:10
side quest to deal with that. That's one of the things I really like is to personalize the campaign to each of the players. Everybody gets their moment
1:10:15
when they're the star of the show for a couple of episodes. So that's kind of what I want. So I don't need a 20page
1:10:21
backstory cuz a you're never going to remember it and b two sessions down the line you've been miles away from it. I mean, if we
1:10:28
look at your character, Rob, yours is a half or paladin. So, you're a religious character. They're typically your
1:10:33
strengths are about the undead. Then we've got Davey, who's a mushroom adult
1:10:38
druid who's hellbent on resurrection, untapping the necromancing side of his
1:10:45
class, not because he's an evil necromancer, because he, you know, resurrecting the dead and using that kind of. So, you've got two characters in the party who should basically hate
1:10:51
each other because of their classes and the way they do, but that's not how our group works. And I'm not going to
1:10:56
enforce that because then it would break what the group does. But you do give gentle reminders and be like, Rob, that that you feel very
1:11:02
uneasy about this. And I'm like, oh yeah, my character would like almost sometimes I need reminding because we're in the story and we're having and we are
1:11:09
we get into it, which and I'm not saying we like kind of act it out, but then you then you're tiptoeing into LA
1:11:16
category and we all know they're the real N. I don't mean that lapers. I don't mean that.
1:11:21
Yeah. Doesn't count unless you're running around with a robin sword. But but like you're engrossed in the story. It's like reading a book and and Yeah.
1:11:29
You know that it's a book through interactive form, right? Yeah. And you get a set in actually Rob. Yeah.
1:11:36
This this kind of this would annoy you a little bit. And I'm like, "Oh, yeah, of course it would." Right. I don't know how I feel about this. I need to take
1:11:43
myself off cuz I really hate them, but I really like him. So, I just need to go, you know, and and it brings and again,
1:11:49
it takes you even deeper into the story. So, so yeah, I'm guessing that as a DM,
1:11:54
you're almost like a shepherd. Yeah, I I have to guide you. And I mean, there are things like, okay, he's
1:12:00
cutting someone's toe off to keep it, and we're all fine with this. Okay, fine. Um, but
1:12:07
what is David? No, don't don't tell me. I love the way that you knew it was David. Of course, it's Dy. Of course it was David. So, don't don't
1:12:13
explain it. I don't. But in terms of the shepherdy thing, it it's more a case of you can do what you want. If you want to go around, you
1:12:18
know, robbing places, punching people in the face, that's fine. There are consequences to this. This is a real
1:12:24
world. Your characters live in a real world where there are law and order and authority and stuff. If you're going to
1:12:29
be dicks, I'm not going to punish you for it. But there's going to be reality checks for the fact that you've been dicks. And
1:12:35
if you go around asking for potions, stuff to make poisons in the middle of a city, you're going to get some attention
1:12:41
that's not particularly favorable because that's not a good thing. So it's it's just things like I want to poke you
1:12:46
to say look just remember there is a world here and there are consequences but if you want to do it you crack on but just remember that's going to come
1:12:53
back. So Stu as a as a wellex experienced DM
What advice would you give a group to start their first sessions?
1:12:59
what would be your advice for somebody who's planning their very first DND
1:13:04
session with three or four friends and it's and and they're going to be the DM. Don't do it.
1:13:14
I think it's I need this advice because I'm about to DM a session for my daughter. So I think the important thing is
1:13:22
it just needs to be a relaxed conversation about what they're trying to go. So the session we've just done with your two new f your friends and
1:13:28
then first session I'm not going to focus on the rules a lot. I'm not going to go into depth about all the different character
1:13:34
builds. We're going to be pretty free form. I'm going to be pretty relaxed about if I've made things too hard or too easy. I'll just bump the scores a
1:13:40
bit and stuff like that. People want to do stuff. I'm not going to worry too much about what kind of roles they need to make or whether that's really not
1:13:46
something they can do. I just want to let them get into it and get a feel for it. And I think for your first sessions, you want to get a feel for the group.
1:13:53
You want to have a conversation with them about, you know, what do they like? What do they like? Do they want to go around smacking stuff with a sword every 5 minutes? Fine, you can do that. Do
1:13:59
they like stories? Do they like puzzles? Get a feel for it and let it flow. And
1:14:04
don't worry about the rules too much. Do some prep so you're not flustered. But if they go off script, and they
1:14:10
will. That's the problem with there being no script, right? Once they've gone off script, don't
1:14:17
suddenly lose your head and go, I can't cope with this. And that's all that prep's wasted. Cuz it's not cuz they don't know what you've got. So they
1:14:23
might go off into the woods for 4 hours and inspect an obelisk. That's really interesting. And then all a sudden
1:14:29
they'll find a village. Wait, what? What? They may is very interesting. I
1:14:35
mean, the amount of time people spend staring at chairs. It's just a chair, boys. Move on. No, I want to check the
1:14:41
chair again. No, it's still a chair. Um, at the end of the woods, there's a village that mysteriously would have
1:14:46
been the village they'd have found anyway, but they don't know that. So, there's a way of kind of ringing people back. You don't need they don't need to see
1:14:53
behind the curtain, but don't stress about it. Just let it flow, get a feel for it, and then you slowly tighten up
1:14:59
as everybody gets more comfortable with it. But if you try and learn all the rules off by heart, you'll just have a meltdown. I don't know all the roles of
1:15:05
my heart. I don't know all of them now. It's not my job to. I know what I need to know. And if I don't need to know,
1:15:10
we'll make a decision there at the table and we'll come back to it later. Fair enough. Cuz you don't want that story broken, right?
1:15:15
No, because it's their story. Let them tell it. That's awesome. And just kill them later.
1:15:21
Just kill them later. So, Becky, the polar reverse of that is somebody who's who's kind of returned to Dn D, albeit
1:15:29
being a very new player. What would your advice to be? What would your advice be to somebody who is thinking about
1:15:36
joining or a game or about to play their first game? Okay, so buy all the shiny dice.
1:15:42
That's not good advice. And get a really nice uh dice board or dice box that you can roll your dice in.
1:15:48
That's not essential, people. Yeah. And make sure that you've got really nice pens and pencils for your
1:15:53
character sheet. Get maybe get a clipboard. Actually, a pencil. A pencil is a must.
1:15:59
Yes. in reality. I mean, I do mean all of those things I've just said. Obviously, I nearly made Katherine a
1:16:04
dice bag for for well, it was her birthday. But I thought, no, you know, she's got lots of bags and you don't
1:16:09
need to make her a dice bag, but I kind of wanted to cuz as with everything for me, it's all about the things I can
1:16:15
customize or make, which is why I think D and D is really good because it's all about customizing and making. That's the
1:16:20
whole point of it all the way through. So, I think try and do a bit of prep,
1:16:26
especially if your DM has given you the the source material because they're
1:16:32
spending a lot of time for this. Don't be rude. That's fair. Try and maybe
1:16:38
I'm not not saying sit here and don't saying characters the whole time. Yes, you're going to have a little chat. You're probably going to make a cup of
1:16:44
tea. That sort of thing is fine. But try and stay vaguely focused on it because they've spent a lot of time with this
1:16:49
and they're doing it for your benefit. So benefit from it. You almost got to let yourself enjoy it, right? Yeah. Maybe learn some if you're
1:16:56
completely newbie. I mean, I can't imagine this would be your first foray into D and D learning listening to this
1:17:01
podcast, but if it is randomly, cool. Have a great time, guys. Maybe just learn some buzzwords. Learn what the
1:17:08
number what what a d20 is. It's a 20sided dice. D everyone knows d20. It's a d10 and a
1:17:13
d12 that I get confused with. Learn what they what what that means. And a d6 is a d. learn those words and I
1:17:22
think just maybe just learn some of the some of the words, some of the buzzwords. Look at a glossery. It's not
1:17:28
it's going to take you one minute. That's fair. And then at least you're not going to be completely
1:17:34
know nothing. But have fun. Let your DM kind of guide you if you're feeling a little bit I don't know what
1:17:41
would I know this thing. Don't be afraid to ask would my character know this? Cuz you don't know what you don't know. Don't
1:17:47
forget they're selling you the scene. And if there's something important they want you to know, they'll tell you about it. But they're probably not going to go, "Guys, there's a really important
1:17:54
dodgy looking chair, whatever you guys you were talking about a minute ago." Like, they're not going to say that because that's really just too obvious. But
1:18:02
they're going to tell you what you need to know. That's fair. I I'm guessing I've never really thought about it that way that
1:18:07
you are going to tell me what I need to know because you want the story to progress in in not in a way that you
1:18:13
want to, but in the way that you kind of imagine. So, I guess even that lie. I've never really thought that. I I thought
1:18:19
you had to be really clever to be a D and D player to play it well. Well, I lucked out then, didn't I?
1:18:25
But but yeah, I've proven that. I really hope you don't. No, no, no. Because that's that's the things you see, isn't it? Like people
1:18:31
making really cool decisions that that But that's because they know about the character. They know about the stuff. They probably isn't their ground zero or
1:18:37
first episode. They've got used to it. I mean, what you got to remember is your characters live in this world. This is their world. This
1:18:42
is their everyday. They know stuff. They can do stuff. They trust each other. All these kind of things. You're a player. you don't know that. So, I have to help
1:18:51
you understand what your characters know and what they can do until you're more comfortable with it, until you can start shaping that narrative. But there, yeah,
1:18:58
there aren't NPCs stood in the village with a glowing question mark above their head saying quest to pick up here.
1:19:03
That would make it a lot easier. And I mean, there are any number of things you can do and like the one we've just done in the town where the little
1:19:09
side quest you've just done, which was mental. It was, wasn't it? I mean, overly complicated in a world
1:19:14
that doesn't believe. We've spoken about it on the pod. I think I know it's just mad. Um, but it's all
1:19:20
that did was serve a purpose was for you guys to get yourself in the town, meet some characters that might be important,
1:19:25
might not be important, get your profile raised a bit because it'll help the plot further down the line. That's the only
1:19:31
purpose it served. But I didn't steer it. I let you guys go where you want because you'll get what you want out of it. I know what you need to do.
1:19:36
Told me was mental, but still it was funny.
1:19:41
It's just the classic of well, there's two clear options here. Oh, we'll go for option zed then. Are we fine?
1:19:48
So, so with that, but like with other games, it's the stories you tell afterwards, isn't it? 100%. And I think as a as a player, you
1:19:54
you just kind of got to have fun. Let the story evolve and and wherever it goes, ultimately it will go, but you're
1:20:00
guaranteed to be able to tell somebody about the weird that you did in your head somewhere down the line. So,
1:20:07
uh, so yeah, thank you for that, guys. Uh, with that, I think we should move on to the next section.
TURN 4 - Konn4ct F4ur
1:20:18
[Music] So, with that, we'll move on to uh our
1:20:25
game of the pod, which lovingly has been named Connect 4. Nothing to do with the
1:20:32
licensed version of Connect 4, where we pick four cards and try to link one game
1:20:37
that will connect them all. So, your words for this episode are I'm shuffling
1:20:43
away. Miniatures. I'm in. Rob's already bought it. I'm in. Oh god. Farming, meles, and
1:20:52
abstract. Oh my god. I mean, that's just the deluxe version of a grier, surely.
1:20:59
Well, it's interesting because you don't I'd never thought about this before, but you don't get many games that have got meeples and miniatures in, do you?
1:21:05
No. I I thought of one immediately and I was like, "Oh, it kind of goes in with farming as well, and then abstract went
1:21:10
and it all out, didn't they?" Just for a recap, we've got abstract, meles, farming, and miniatures.
1:21:17
So, mine instantly my mine went to Scythe. Oh, hello. Oh, that was good
1:21:23
because I played as the farming clan and they had tractors, which is the whole reason why I didn't enjoy the game.
1:21:28
Well, it's not the whole reason, but you live in the West Country, you didn't enjoy playing with tractors. So, somebody had like an ED 209 looking
1:21:35
thing and I tracked that. I was like, "This game's I'm out." Um, it's not a I I admit that now.
1:21:43
Great. It's not It's not my thing. Uh, but it's got meeples. It's got miniatures and and it had a farming element.
1:21:48
That's a clear ruined everything. No. So, what's the definition of abstract? I can
1:21:53
probably bend it. Absolutely. Go on. I'm all about bending rules. I mean, if you think about
1:22:01
cuz it's an alternative history, isn't it? Well, I mean, it is. I mean, size is an
1:22:06
alternative history. We basically got a steampunk post first world war genre. You've got this mysterious
1:22:11
factory in the middle where you can get weird upgrades. I don't think it's abstract though, mate. I'm going to roll. It is. And if
1:22:17
anyone's got a problem with that, it really isn't. Tell me on Well, can I can I can I do a saving skill check and see if I pass?
1:22:23
There's no point in me even rolling, is there? Don't let Rob roll. Jesus Christ. your saving throw. No death saving throw.
1:22:29
That's why. Yeah, there's no kind of shapes or colors or or kind of patterns for the
1:22:35
abstract. No, can't help you with that. Fair enough. Any come to my shoe? I can't think of any that abstract and
1:22:42
farming. Abstract and farming just doesn't link together. So, you instantly, like you said, you go to a gric agricola if JP's listening to
1:22:49
this. Drives him mad every time I say that. It's hilarious. I only say it to annoy him as well. I mean, I'm just trying to think is again, the miniatures
1:22:56
can also slightly skew it, but I mean, the abstracts just I mean, it depends what how you're defining abstract
1:23:03
because abstract has a number of meanings, but yeah, I I don't think I mean, I'm basically paddling upstream
1:23:08
with one leg right now. So, yeah, I mean, farming and meats. Oh, that's rake any u different games.
1:23:16
Yeah, most of them u say miniatures don't often coales with
1:23:21
meles, do they? No, that's more like a deluxe version basically. Just got the upgrade. Yeah.
1:23:26
Miniatures are miniatures in my book. That's what your wife says.
1:23:32
You're not wrong. Um I think SC's the best we've got with that. I can't think of one. Sc's not a bad chat.
1:23:38
I can't think of one that I can't get you any question. There's only more than two. Yeah. So, I think you've absolutely knocked
1:23:43
out the park with that one. Cool. Well, if let us know on Discord. Yeah. If you've come up with a better answer on Discord, then please let us
1:23:48
know.
TURN 5 - The Penultimate Turn: What's Coming Next?
1:23:57
So, with the D&D discussion over, I'd like to move on to our next section, which is penultimate turn. So, this is
1:24:04
the section where we talk about not necessarily all things board gaming, but what we've got coming up, what we're
1:24:09
excited to be doing in the near future. So, uh, Becky, I'll start with you. What have you got coming up that you're
1:24:14
excited about? I am currently at the start of a build of Riendell. So jealous. um out of Lego, not by Lego.
1:24:22
Well, it's by Lego, isn't it? But out of Lego. And that's that's going to look really cool. And along with that, we're
1:24:28
also going to get more Calax. We've put the we've like made the IKEA shopping list. But annoyingly, they've stopped
1:24:34
doing the color of the other IKEA stuff that we've already got. Oh, fortunately, I've got a lot of calax in
1:24:40
my hobby room. So, we're just going to swap the living room one with the one in my room, which is the right color.
1:24:45
Mhm. And then we're just going to buy more of that same color. Fair enough. So that's going to have board games at the bottom and then it's
1:24:51
going to have the Rivendell and Barador when we make it on the top. You still haven't made Barador. No, not yet.
1:24:57
It is massive. It is massive and we but we did buy it like over a year ago now. I think I think it was Christmas.
1:25:02
You bought it at a airport on the way to or from somewhere, did we? We did. Yeah, but we didn't take it with us. We left it. That would have been
1:25:08
mad. But it was our Christmas present to each other. So it is nearly a year ago and we haven't made it. that I I would say that's terrible, but
1:25:16
I've had a Lego set for about 18 months that I still haven't built. So, it's you've got to it's not something you're going to finish in a weekend.
1:25:21
It's it's a you know a easier to put your effort in. Yeah. Well, you may be Well, I I tend to
1:25:27
stay in bed till midday and I always I don't move at Rob's glacia 5 hour pace. We talk about
1:25:33
So, yeah, that's what I've got coming which is nice. Nice. Ste, what you got coming up, mate? I should have my Kickstarter of Nippon
1:25:41
arriving um around that time. So, I'm looking forward to that. But I've also got the
1:25:47
ultima solo mode for Tokaido, which I want to get out and play at some stage. So, that will probably come up next. And
1:25:53
then we have our final D and D session before this holiday break. Yes, very much looking forward to that.
1:25:59
I've been level five now for three sessions and haven't fought anything. So, I've got now double attack. I mean,
1:26:05
to be fair, there have been pitch battles you just can't hit for No, to be fair, I I I I I did all right
1:26:10
in the last one. Everything kept dying in one hit, which is nice. So, um yeah, I kind of a double bastard in in a
1:26:17
fantasy game. Nothing to do with my real life character, of course. U yeah, very much
1:26:24
looking forward to that. It'll be it'll be a good laugh. So, um yeah, we've had a bit of a break. It'll be good to go back to it. Yeah, 100%. So, I'm very much looking
1:26:31
forward to that myself. How about you, Rob? What are you up to? I have got a game of uh Apex Legends
1:26:39
coming up and J we've always done 2v2 where each players controlling one character, but
1:26:44
JP said, "Oh, I'd like to get the full full version." So, six of us 3v 3v3.
1:26:51
It's a game that I shouldn't enjoy, but I love it. And I get why I get why it's
1:26:57
had all the praise that it's had. It just works so well that skirmish games don't not they don't interest me. I just
1:27:03
never had the the chance to play it and I don't like being left on my own devices in those sorts of games, but
1:27:08
this works really well. Who's playing that? I I don't know who the other six are.
1:27:14
Uh, sorry, JP's won. JP's won. I think Adrian, I think Curly,
1:27:20
but I don't know off the top of my head. So, um, but JP said I was hoping to get six, and we got six, so I said, "Yeah,
1:27:26
I'll give it a go. Why not?" So, yeah, we got Apex Legends, um, and obviously our D&D session as you mentioned. And so
1:27:32
yeah, that's what I've got coming up. Um, have you played Apex? Nope. Have you played it? No. It's again, they're not games that
1:27:39
would appeal to me. I'm not interested in Miniature Skirmish. And I probably, if I played it, I'd probably enjoy it, but it's the same with Elder
1:27:45
Scrolls. I don't want to get into it. I haven't played Elder Scrolls, but I think I would like it.
1:27:51
I think you probably would. I probably I would definitely enjoy it, but I'm I'm not going to get into it.
1:27:56
I think you'd love it, Becky. It's like too It's like too many bones with a more story. No. Well, see, I don't I like the
1:28:02
silliness of Too Many Bones. Yeah, that's true. Kind of just silly nonsense. I They are different games. They are
1:28:07
They're similar design, but they are very different games. And I don't think I want to play a game that takes multiple sitdowns to play.
1:28:15
But now that you've played D and D with character investment and creation. Well, that's why I would I would only want to play not only, but I would
1:28:22
prefer to play a few like one shots in a row
1:28:27
because then you're not thinking, okay, this is another thousand years of this character. Well, the same character, but
1:28:34
I quite like the My trouble is I know what I'm like. If I have to do anything on a semi-regular basis, in my brain it
1:28:42
becomes a chore and then I don't want to do it. Even if I love doing the thing, when I've been in bands in the past,
1:28:49
even though I've loved doing it, whenever band night be like, "Oh, bloody band nights. I've got it." And I always
1:28:55
enjoyed it and the people I played music with, it was great, but it was a chore because it
1:29:00
was every other Monday or whatever. And I I hate it when things come like that because it's it's all totally in my
1:29:05
head. I know that, but I don't I I don't ever want those things to become a chore. That's fair. That's fair. I I I think
1:29:12
there will be a oneshot mode. I can't imagine them not creating that
1:29:18
Starite level five or 10 or whatever it is and kind of go through that. But that's that's talk for another day.
TURN 6 - The Final Turn
1:29:23
So, with that, after calculating bonuses to rolls and victory points gained and
1:29:30
have we leveled up? Have we leveled up? Have we leveled up? you have you Uh I'd just like to say thank you for
1:29:37
joining us. Uh if you'd like to support us or chuck us a few quid, we are on coffee. Um we'd very much appreciate uh
1:29:45
the support that we get from that. It's allowed us to do some cool things and hopefully some even cooler things in the
1:29:50
future. So um come and join us on our Discord. Uh you you'll get to hear about
1:29:55
those really cool things uh before anybody else. And uh come and speak to us and and chat with us directly. uh
1:30:01
we'd love to have you along. Um how to get in contact with us on all social media will be attached in the show
1:30:07
notes. Um so please go and check that out and please feel free to get in contact. We love our interactions with
1:30:13
uh with the members of the of the group. Um and just thank you for being part of
1:30:18
our gaming group. We we absolutely love it. So with that being said, uh whose dice roll was it anyway?
1:30:25
Not yours. Yeah, not anyway. [Music]
1:30:37
[Applause]