Transforming Hospitality: A Dialogue with Red Carnation Hotels’ Leaders - Victoria Tollman and Jonathan Raggett

Ever wondered how a family-owned hotel business can transform into a luxury boutique hotel collection that stands out in the global hospitality industry? Join us as we unravel this captivating journey with Vicki Tollman and Jonathan Raggett of the Red Carnation Hotel Collection. These leaders offer a unique insight into the Tollman family's rich history in hospitality, dating back to more than a century. They share how their passion for exceptional guest experiences has shaped the Red Carnation Group's reputation today.

As we transition into the second segment of our chat, Vicki and Jonathan touch on the exciting, and at times, emotional process of property acquisition and expansion. We discuss the sentimentality involved in cherry-picking properties to add to their collection. Listen as they share the delightful story of how the iconic Oyster Box Hotel in South Africa became part of their portfolio. They also highlight their commitment to nurturing their employees, exemplified in many success stories like that of their first employee.

In the final third of our conversation, we dive deep into sustainability in the hospitality industry – a buzzword that Red Carnation Hotels has molded into concrete action. Vicki and Jonathan discuss their initiatives like the Tread Right Foundation and how they involve the community and their employees in sustainable practices. They highlight steps taken towards waste reduction, support for local farmers, and their ongoing journey towards transparency in sustainability. Through our discussion, you'll discover how these values and practices have firmly placed Red Carnation Hotels at the forefront of the hospitality industry.

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Transcript

Robin Cline: 0:08

Have you ever wondered how the pros put together epic, tailor-made travel adventures? Welcome to the Intrepid Traveler Podcast. I'm your host, robin Klein, and I'm going to explain to you just how that is done during my conversation with today's guest. When it comes to luxury adventure and expedition travel, the possibilities are endless. In each episode, you'll hear from an expert in his or her field about how these experiences, and more, are created.

Robin Cline: 0:37

This episode of the Intrepid Traveler is brought to you by Klein and Co Travel Consulting, a luxury adventure and expedition travel planning company specializing in un-Googleable experiences. You can find us on the web at KleinandCoTravelcom. On Instagram, at Klein and Co Travel, we have a private Facebook group you are welcome to join. You can find us on LinkedIn or catch the video version on YouTube. With that said, let's welcome today's guest. Okay, good morning and welcome back to another episode of the Intrepid Traveler Podcast. I say good morning. It's good morning here in the United States, but it is good afternoon in London, where our guests are. Today, we have got Vicki Tolman and Jonathan Raggett with us from the Red Car Nation Hotel Collection. Welcome to you both.

Jonathan Raggett: 1:31

It's great to be here. It's great to be a guest. Thank you very much for your invitation, robin.

Robin Cline: 1:36

Absolutely. Vicki is a co-owner of the group, the hotels and properties that we're going to talk about a little bit today. I appreciate you taking the time to be with us. It's really special, thank you.

Victoria Tollman: 1:49

Thank you for giving us the opportunity. We both are happy to be here to support this. Hopefully she will insights into who we are and Red Carn ation and what makes us take yeah, absolutely Well, that's what we're going to get to.

Robin Cline: 2:05

But why don't you tell us first a little bit just about your family's history? Because you are in a very unique situation where your family actually founded this business and it's still family run owned. I just love that you're in that position to do that. So tell us a little bit about the history.

Victoria Tollman: 2:28

I think hospitality is in all of our blood now because my grandfather bought a very small hotel in a very small fishing village over 103 years ago. It was called the Patanasta Hotel. My father grew up in the early first few years of his life there. At the time there was no running water, there were no indoor toilets, so it was very basic hospitality. But the years after that, as my father got older and he joined in the business, he was actually starting to be a pharmacist and his parents went away and at the time he would go away on these long overseas trips. So they were away for six months and his father had said keep an eye on the hotel. And when his parents got back my father was running the hotel, had given up pharmacy, fired the manager and was ready. And that's how my dad got into hospitality. So he grew up with it. He knew the challenges. It was a lot of.

Victoria Tollman: 3:30

My grandparents were running the hotels during World War II so there were all the challenges at the time.

Victoria Tollman: 3:38

So I think they learned the fundamental importance in hospitality is just taking care of that one guest, and one guest builds two, and so that's how my family got in the business.

Victoria Tollman: 3:52

Then my father met my mom and they actually had their first date at one of our properties that we now own, the Oyster Box, and he had said to my mom I really hope one day to own a hotel like this, because I came from a very humble background. My mom was studying to be a nursery school teacher I think she was 17 at the time and my dad was 20. So, yeah, I'm in full of dreams. And then they got married a year later and through the wedding gift money they bought a very small hotel called the Nacket in Johannesburg, and my mom had never worked in hospitality but she learned how to do everything. So she started in the kitchens and they slowly built what I think was the first collection of boutique hotels in South Africa. And they were side by side all those years and continued to work together All their life until my father unfortunately passed away two years ago. But they worked side by side in hospitality and the hotel business was the greatest passion and love that.

Robin Cline: 4:58

I love that. Oh, that's great. We'll get into the evolution of how the you know the properties that you have added over the years in just a minute. But let me ask Jonathan to speak to a little bit about your story and journey into hospitality and joining the Red Carnation Group.

Jonathan Raggett: 5:21

Thank you, robin. So, yeah, my story is now 25 years with Red Carnation Hotels. Prior to that, I'd left school, I'd done a higher national diploma in hotel management, a Westminster here in London, and then I joined a managerial program and then worked on departments and I had an opportunity to work in the UK, in Europe, and actually prior to meeting the Tollman family, I worked in South Africa for a company called Southern Science. Okay, anyway, back in Europe I had the good fortune to meet with Mrs Birkes Tollman and Mr Stanley Tollman you know Biggie's parents who then to stay at the hotel that I was managing at the time. Cut to a long story, they offered me a position within the company, which at that time was to run a hotel that had just been purchased for improvement and there's lots of fucking dollars. I'd also see the heart of a new hotel that Mr Stanley Tollman had provisions of build, called Hotel, what he Was, and I remember very well thinking I was very happy in the job I was in. But Sam, Ian, Mrs. Tollman are so charismatic. I was a fairly young man and I remember he said to me if you do a good job for Mrs Tollman myself and I need a really good job. You'll be part of our journey as I go on the search to build a hotel company, because at that time we're only three. Okay, and it was a great carrot and stick.

Jonathan Raggett: 6:53

So in 1998, I came to London to manage those properties. London was doing very well at that time and the Rubens Hotel, porty One, really did very well indeed, and so he's worked. Mr Tollman said right, you can now be the managing director of the company, working for Mrs Tollman, we're the father of the president and over the next 20 years they were to buy another 16, 17 hotels to get the collections where it is today. And I honestly say it would seem a bit new being on this call, that I've been in this company now so long, because I work for a company that really care about the properties. We care even more about the people that work in the properties and we all work just for one thing and that is to be successful together and so that we're big so where we can build against all that competitors and to make it so.

Jonathan Raggett: 7:51

That's the way we are today and it's that whole feeling that runs throughout the company. That's he's absolutely wonderful and last came from Mrs Tollman and he still obviously runs our company and again, without being too patronizing to Vicky, who's on with that, I'll look here with us right now and she's taking the reins now and doing all we can to make sure that branding is right and, I think, relevant to, because, you know, we've had some pretty shocking years where we had to close our hotels down throughout the world and we all had to come out of this and one thing we've learned is that we do things like we've always used to do them. That isn't right for today. So we've done a lot of things over the last couple of years to make sure we're relevant to where we are today and how we come out of this, actually even stronger than we were at the whole.

Robin Cline: 8:41

That's a huge testimony there and I can say, having been to the hotels in London myself and visited and I was lucky enough to stay at the milestone and meet several of your hotel managers and so forth that you know the people that are working with you are just above and beyond and you know they're so friendly and kind of just really truly have that heart for hospitality that you could, you could tell that the people that are part of your I'm going to say family of the Red Carn ation family it's not just a job for them.

Jonathan Raggett: 9:20

It's really, really nice to be saying that. And look, we don't always get it right. We don't always get it right, but I think we have some phenomenal people in the world with so many years and we have a really, really active management program. So a lot of our system managers, deputy managing GM, have been on this program. We have people that have been in a certain department, that had been in this training. I think that's really important to say that already, because I think it seems to be very often for most people to a position that aren't ready for it. So you have very blessed with that, very high powered people and culture seem to make sure we're getting this the train wall of competence. So the person takes the job they're ready to do so and then you know Vicky, myself and obviously our great general manager you do everything possible you can to support them in their roles.

Robin Cline: 10:07

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean. A wonderful testimony to that is Michelle Devlin at Edgerton House, correct?

Jonathan Raggett: 10:17

Well, she was appointed many years ago as our executive housekeeper just to go to a hotel and you know, one thing that Vicky and I do do well is we have a if he calls it a nose, and you can see the right people. You can see it's not just people being nice to us with people of our respective positions, right company, you see it throughout the hotel. And she was a lady we both saw that, you know, had great integrity, had great respect for her team. I'd be, more importantly, wanting to get on because, I mean, you just remember, a lot of people that are executive housekeeper are very happy in that role, so they're not upsetting, that's what they want to be. Enjoy them in that position. But Michelle, in this case, would always have the hunger to get to the top and be a general manager. So it is just the most wonderful cocktail when that happens, because you get the best of everything.

Robin Cline: 11:12

Yeah, I love it. I love that you know that somebody can make that transition and that you allow them to. So I think that that's just a huge, huge testimony to you all your ethos in your business, the culture there and yourself. You know, jonathan, well, you're now the CEO, you know, and now you're the. You're the man.

Jonathan Raggett: 11:31

Well, I'll be just and we'll bring Vicky in after this. I'll just answer this one a little bit more. Four more questions. You mentioned your stay that in milestone in Kensington, which is our flagship property in London. I didn't buy it because the brand GM there. He was the first manager I ever appointed and he joined me at the Rubens where I joined. He's 25 years in now.

Jonathan Raggett: 11:52

Yes, yeah, and the even better story than Michelle's of many one is he's Adam Lait. He's the general manager at the Chesterfield Hotel and whilst I was at the Rubens with Andy Pye we spotted this man that sat, was in the back of house and counting the dirty union, bagging out to be sent out to be laundered. And I just I mean he was doing a phenomenal job and it's a very, very important job in that hotel. Yes, but he had a certain sparkle. I thought I want the guests to see that sparkle. Anyway, fast tracking this a little bit, we've got everyone's lots of trade going into the front office tea. The last five years he's been the general manager of the Chesterfield Hotel, the manager, the managing director.

Jonathan Raggett: 12:35

Now we've bought Stavicky and myself in South Africa. He's been with the company 18 Wars. Again, he was on our marriage program. I went back and said you know, I know there are lots of small examples, but I think it's just proof that you know, if you're, this company will give you every opportunity. You'll work, johnny hard. You will work Johnny hard, but you'll be respected, for one day you'll be given the tools to do the job. And yes, when we make a mistake, yes, we do. You know, we were very concerned with all the kinds of big sit them all. They want to make sure we don't make the same mistake.

Robin Cline: 13:11

That's right, that's right, I love it. That's fabulous. So, and that's a great segue what you just said as far as the properties. So, vicki, tell us a little bit about like I'm just going to sort of go down the list because I think it's really impressive. You know, I know that boutique hotels, you know luxury and boutique and also properties, because you have a couple of properties, one being a wilderness retreat in South Africa as well as a safari property. There's one property in Geneva and Switzerland. We've got Ireland where we've got a castle. There are city hotels in London. So how do you all go about making the decisions about which properties fit your company model and you know why you want those properties to be part?

Victoria Tollman: 13:58

of it. That's a very good question because we're a very eclectic collection of hotels and I think very much this came about from my parents, my father's vision of whether he wanted to be places that mattered to us. So South Africa we're all originally South Africans. We left during apartheid and we never went back after apartheid and that was when my father wanted to get back into hospitality and travel in South Africa and the first hotel we found was the Twelve Apostles, then Bushman's Chur and then the Oysterbox came up. So I think there's some sentimental attachment to why we bought certain properties.

Victoria Tollman: 14:40

Geneva came apart because I had just moved to Geneva and I felt that there was room for a red carnation hotel, despite hospitality being as famous as it was at the time. And luckily enough the Angleterre just fit so well into what we feel is much more of a British sort of quintessential type of property. So the Angleterre fitted in well. Ashford Castle my parents went with my brother Brett when he was, I think, 12 or 13. And when we heard about that property coming in onto the market. So I think every hotel there's been some sort of sentimental link to it. And then I think the London hotels my father really wanted to be sure that we had something in most of the main locations, from Mayfair in Zington to Nightsbridge, Blue'sbury, Victoria so we could accommodate guests looking for different destinations. So there's not really a formula to the way we go about it. It was very much where we can spend time, where we have the resources to support the teams, and then sometimes sentimental reason.

Robin Cline: 15:52

Yeah, and I love that, because it's not that's not just driven by what the balance sheet says. It sounds, with the sentimental aspect to it, and you mentioned earlier about when they went to the Oysterbox, that your father's saying to your mother that someday he'd love to own a hotel like this and then ended up. So I'd be interested to know the story. How did the acquisition of the Oysterbox come up, then?

Victoria Tollman: 16:18

We feel it's a lovely story and we always say that's where the love story began. So, as I mentioned, they had their first date there and then the hotel had been in the hands of a family for many years and had never changed ownership. And when the original owner passed away and her family inherited the hotel, they were based, I think, in Australia and they really wanted to find a family that would not change the DNA of the Oysterbox. The Oysterbox has to be one of South Africa's most cherished and loved properties and whoever you meet in South Africa they'll say oh, my granny took me there for tea. Oh, my parents got engaged. There's so many South Africans that have so many memories that's been part of their childhood or their parents' childhood or whatever. So the family was called the McKays and they knew of my family being very hamster on, very caring being.

Victoria Tollman: 17:16

And I think one of the most important things is they knew we would keep the original. We weren't going to turn it into some high-rise modern thing. We were to hold on to what made the Oriester box so famous Keep it still. And it Exactly. Yeah, and it's quite funny, because we were so careful we got so many letters, whatever people heard that we bought the hotel. Don't change this, please don't change that. So we rarely listen to the feedback and we try to hold on to all the signature features in the hotel, whether it was the staircase or the tiles or and it was so funny we did change a lot of things, we kept a lot of things, but when people came back they would go oh, I remember that, but it never existed before.

Victoria Tollman: 18:01

So we definitely managed to achieve the familiarity and really it was um. It was a wonderful opportunity to turn this hotel into the best it could be, and I hope you'll have the opportunity to go because it is a very special property. So it was 60 years after my father said that that we had the opportunity. We took two years to renovate it and today I think it's probably one of South Africa's most iconic um properties that definitely all South Africans know and have maybe experienced.

Robin Cline: 18:37

That's, that's wonderful, I love that. And, um, while we're in Africa, let's talk for a minute about the newest edition. Uh, or I believe it's the newest edition anyway, in Is it Xigera? Is it Xigera? Yes, very hard, okay, all right. Well, it's a little bit dispelling, just so for those that are listening. Starts with an X, and so you know, you never quite know exactly how to pronounce that, but I don't think I massacred it too badly, oh, but but it's pronounced the last of the case.

Robin Cline: 19:10

So, chitra, oh okay, it's okay Great, and this is in and this is in Botswana, in the Okavanga Delta, so, and I, um, I definitely have a passion. I have not been to South Africa yet, or or Botswana, so, um, these are all high on my list, the things we're talking about, but I love the story and the care that you all took in getting this property ready and introducing it, and so tell us a little on on about that story too.

Victoria Tollman: 19:41

Well, I would stick Chitra where my father's last and greatest swan song, because he had always wanted to have a red carnation safari experience and my family were very involved with wilderness safaris, which you may know, and I think when we became involved in wilderness in 95, there were eight properties and then they became the largest African specialist and tour operator with, I think, over 70 lodges. So we were very much part of the wilderness journey. But my father always felt he wanted to create a safari experience that had the DNA of red carnation, so the warmth, the love, the generous hospitality, making our guests discover the best of Africa. And so we had an opportunity that Chitra came about. And in fact, when we just did from wilderness, chitra was part of that arrangement. And now the chose Chitra because it offered both land and water experience, which, as you know, often safaris are either one or the other right, and we were in a very lucky position to be able to offer both land and water. And also, where Chitra is located, there's no other camps very close by. So, as you know, many safaris, when you go and they see a lion or a leopard, suddenly you get every camp in the area. Well, you know the 20 vehicles we so blessed because we don't have anybody else. So when there's that, you'll only find guests from Chitra, you know, looking at the game or whatever.

Victoria Tollman: 21:17

So he then wanted to make it an example in several areas. One, how we treated our staff, because a lot of safaris in the past you had these amazing suites, yet where the team lived was not right, necessarily the most comfortable. So we built a staff village where every single person has their own accommodation space facilities. I can't tell you some of our recognition hotels in London would love the same behind the scenes as Chitra, and my parents have always believed if you keep your staff happy, they will take care of your guests and make sure your guests are happy. So I think that was something very important to him was to ensure that our teams were equally well looked after as our own guests.

Victoria Tollman: 22:08

He then wanted it to be a sustainable footprint, which we all know how important that is. So we brought in that I think it's the largest private property with solar energy, so everything in the large is 95% is run through our solar program and our other sustainable efforts of food, matter, waste and all different initiatives. Then he wanted it to be a place where our guests could discover the talent of Africa. There's such incredible art and design and artists coming out of Africa, so we decided to turn it into a place where artists could showcase their work and our guests could discover the incredible talent that is coming out of Africa today. So we have over 80 artists that have featured at Chitra. Oh my God, yes, it's amazing, and if guests love something, they will love it Right through the park where we worked for. So it's a lovely full circle as far as supporting the artist.

Victoria Tollman: 23:14

He then, from his years of experience of being in the bush, understood that 50% of a guest experience is your interaction with the team and food and beverage and things like that. So we've really tried to cultivate an experience for the guests that they are having the most delicious food, that we're working with the local suppliers. We try and encourage our community. So there's been so many different wonderful pillars that we've been able to integrate in Chitra and I believe the success is speaking for itself today as far as guest recognition and the wonderful relationships we've built with agents and, most of all, how the team are so proud to be working there. So that's really, pedro. I hope that answered what.

Robin Cline: 24:12

Yes, no, it does, Absolutely, and I've just I've heard wonderful things about it and certainly can't wait to get there myself, but to itself like that First of all. So, yes, absolutely, yeah, we'll talk. We'll talk after we finish recording about that, see what we can negotiate. Well, let me go back to Jonathan for just a second here, because I know that you, like most people in your position, are very modest about this, but I do want to say that you, just like two days, three days ago, had a very significant award that was well deserved from is it caterer? Is that correct, and I'm not on that to get from any hospital.

Robin Cline: 25:00

Oh, that's right. I read it on caterer, sorry, yes, okay.

Jonathan Raggett: 25:03

Absolutely. Yeah, the star ratings out and the rosette smoke.

Robin Cline: 25:08

Yes, yes, exactly, and you had a lifetime achievement award, which you don't see hardly enough old enough to have anything that's considered lifetime, but hopefully there'll be another you know number of years to carry on with this one.

Jonathan Raggett: 25:23

Maybe I can win it again in 20 years time.

Robin Cline: 25:25

right, right, there you go Be a repeat multi, but I did want to just publicize a congratulations about that because that is a huge achievement and I think anytime you get something like that, that is, you know, obviously your peers and people are industry wide have recognized you for the work you're doing and well, thank you.

Jonathan Raggett: 25:47

But yeah, if you're all right, I was.

Jonathan Raggett: 25:48

I was truly delighted and humbled to win your award.

Jonathan Raggett: 25:51

I do want to caveat that with saying that certainly in the last 25 years, the team and people I've worked with, and the ownership I've already mentioned, will be hugely supportive for this, and I also think that hotels are a wonderful business.

Jonathan Raggett: 26:06

That's that many of my friends out there are Italian and whilst we are competing and of course he was a bit out of each house I think he's a business, like many that are, so we'll share ideas and we'll welcome you to see what's going on. I know that you know there's a real sequence to our business, so clearly we don't need to remember the names of our key accounts, but we do share best practices or what we're doing right, and so you know he was very nice to have some very nice words from many of them for the awards. So it's great. I think, like all things that I already do mean this he's been a great, nice and great next day, but you move all quickly and that you keep relevance and that you make sure that you do your very best from the people in the hotels, but that makes you feel for recognizing.

Robin Cline: 26:58

No, no, absolutely. And you know, while we're kind of on that note, I think that something that I feel like sets you all apart are. There are two things that I noticed. Well, actually three things.

Robin Cline: 27:09

I'll say quickly that I really noticed when I was there how everybody in the hotels work well together, they're fine and respectful to one another, and that you don't have that feeling of there being this like hierarchy there's, you know, to go through the halls, you know it's such a family feeling among you, and I even and hesitate to say employees, even though they are, because it just doesn't feel that way. So it's a lovely feeling. The other thing is is you all have a very strong commitment to sustainability, which we'll get into here in just a second. And also in the hotels at London, I noticed the commitment to the historical integrity of these buildings, and I know that some of that is, you know, mandated, but I also felt like you all take that a step beyond and go over and above to really maintain, like I say, the historical integrity. When maybe you could get away with making some changes, I feel like you've chosen not to. Is that correct?

Victoria Tollman: 28:15

I think that was also very much the vision of my father that he there was a. You know, when the group was getting bigger, he would say I don't want you branding this as a red carnation. This hotel meets to stand on its own and one of the suit does not fit all in red carnation. So we've tried to balance where now the red carnation, the lineings being recognized as a collection of hotels, but where each hotel shines in its own right is its own family and then part of a bigger family. But I think we've, we've been so lucky that our teams do have this complicity, solidarity, support each other.

Victoria Tollman: 28:59

I think it comes from different reasons from our managers, from Jonathan, from my family, from our PNC department, the training, the things that matter to us. So I think it's a combination of things and that's also the hotel's heritage we have to respect the bones and so that helps define the style and very much the personality of each hotel. And then on the sustainable side, I'm sure Jonathan, who's one of our sustainable champions in TTC, where we have the Tread Right Foundation, and it's so important to us to do what's right For the environment, yes, for the communities and, just as a human being, like what is our responsibility in the business? And then the person, me. So it's a very important pillar and I think we've done a lot of things and continue to strive to do more things, and Jonathan, who's absolutely passionate about this, I'm sure will be delighted to share more I could, but I mean, I think he will be able to share other things too.

Robin Cline: 30:13

Yeah, why don't you just share a little bit more about that, jonathan? Because I think that, even though it's kind of a buzzword these days to be sustainable and all that, it's more than paper straws and plastic bottles. All the plastic bottles about make me insane. So talk a little more like a hotel as a whole. How do you go about looking at that and making the footprint less?

Jonathan Raggett: 30:38

while still providing. There's no silver bullets in this Robin.

Jonathan Raggett: 30:42

It is a journey In any business that's going on. This journey needs to understand what they are doing. Yeah, and there's a lot of green watch going out there where I'm saying we're doing it, but I think they're going to be in trouble with years going forwards because what they're saying they're going to be true influence and people are stupid and they do want to know what's going on. So, again, very lucky. My entire show tells us. We're owned by the travel corporation which again, is part of the Victoria Tolman's family and it's directed from a fantastic way to support us. So we have some of these big travel matters and experiences where, again, we invite guests to come and stay with us and for them to get back to the communities should they wish to.

Jonathan Raggett: 31:35

And we find more and more today if we're looking to come and enjoy experiences. We've had very few people. Now I'm allergic. When you're just coming for a bed and a dining experience and a spa, I mean that's all part of it. That's taking the risk Right, playing out.

Jonathan Raggett: 31:51

People want to enjoy and see and just feel. You know they're giving something back, because the world we live in today obviously has the them and the don't have it. It's just trying to bring it slightly more together. So we work on, I think, a lot of parents today. They want their children to kind of understand as well that young children are on.

Jonathan Raggett: 32:10

Talking to young children, those people that live in towns and cities where you can know where fruits and vegetables even come from, because they go to supermarket and that's where it is We'll take you, how do you do it? So one of the experiences we do in the area is we take the only children and parents with their share to a place called Borough Market here in London where all sorts of juices local and it's that again it's people coming to sell what they have reduced. Yeah, yeah, it's all very local and the chef would explain to the family about where it's come from, what's needed, how we have to buy things, how the waste product can be used, take it back to the hotel and what we'll put with those ingredients.

Robin Cline: 32:54

That's my splash, I love to do this.

Jonathan Raggett: 32:57

Three, six, so that's not. I went with the chef. Actually he was like I'm not surprised, I'm just a seven year old child, a bright seven year old child. He's like asking all these great, great questions. And I had no idea that potatoes were in the grouse Right, and we had. We had a whole lecture of these. We very proudly put those onto our website and find more and more products Now, throughout all of that, around our 19,.

Jonathan Raggett: 33:26

Probably just the way we have. But that's one side of things we're doing. And then the more obvious one is we've been now for several years managing our waste, because you don't know what look thrown away until you measure it. And so we measure everything that we throw away. And then, more importantly, we see what we're throwing away these things, our cameras and then we adjust what we buy. So we used to buy far too much bakery, rather too much bread, so we've adjusted what we buy now so that there is less waste. I'm saying they'll be some wasted, so we're affected out through waste to get exactly the right things.

Jonathan Raggett: 34:05

There are so many parts of the world that have an update, so now hotels need to be generous, but you have to be able to do what they do. We don't have any single use plastic in our hotels anymore. We work really hard on that. The only thing we haven't overcome yet is the suppliers still bring things to us and a color of plastic. We will kick back once we come through this. It's, you know, everyone's having their challenges in the world right now in terms of finding people to do this that Now we'll kick back on it. We won't work with people that have that the same as us. So the whole string of things and that's just the final thing to say on this.

Jonathan Raggett: 34:42

You said, keep it short. The success of this isn't just myself and Vicky Tolman ownership being keen on this. This is about bringing people through. So we have a really strong community that will work enough of a towels to ensure that at the rather than town balls tea parties we have, we're making it a subject matter. We have a quarterly staff newsletters. We send out a guest. It's always a big feature of what we're doing. So now we're encouraging people to contribute, we're encouraging people to ask questions and we're showing the importance of it to us and we're making it one of the cornerstones of what we do the importance of where we are, which makes it because anything works in life and it's sustainable. He's absolutely right. If we just sort of grow a little wonder there and pretend we're getting it, you really need to get that.

Robin Cline: 35:30

I agree 100% and you know it's interesting. I am noticing in my clients that that is something that has become more of a conversation and they want to know who is. You know who are making these efforts and who aren't, and I love that. And I also love that. Who knows how many budding Jamie Oliver's you all are getting going there by doing this program. This is like fabulous. So, yeah, yeah. So, vicki, you wanted to say something, yeah.

Victoria Tollman: 36:00

I also wanted to say how inspired we are by so many of the young members of our team who it's it's so important to them, and every single employee, in recognition, gets to paid volunteer days a year so they can use those days to support a charity they believe in. To be in a release to do so. I think we we try and walk the talk. You know there's been so much talk about sustainability and, as Jonathan mentioned, the make travel matter, experiences that our guests can have, but I think it's also the impact on the community around us. So helping smaller suppliers, yeah, I'd love to share another story and initiative that I think is quite special.

Victoria Tollman: 36:49

It's the Auschwitz, which our wilderness retreat in the Seedburg mountains. It's just outside Cape Town, or three hours from Cape Town, and they have Cape Mountain leopards and around the property there's quite a lot of sheep farmers and these Cape Mountain leopards. They very elusive. I can't say that guests get to see them or even aware of them. They would come and attack the sheep, the sheep farmers, and so the sheep would be all other. The farmers would always kill the leopards if they found them.

Victoria Tollman: 37:23

So once again, my father thought how could we prevent this happening and how can we help the farmers? So we started a project with Anatolian sheep dogs and we brought over sheep dogs and gave them to the farmers and the leopards are very scared of the sheep dogs. So it's been such a wonderful project and I think there's been one leopard that's been shot since then. I think they have over 15 dogs now at different farms. Guests can go and speak to the farmers. These they're not very friendly dogs. They live amongst the sheep so they can't really interact with the guests, but farmers do. So it's kind of such a nice trail, so to speak, and knowing that we're doing good and I think it's. Everyone in hospitality or the travel business today has a certain responsibility, as much as they can to make a difference or to raise the awareness of their clients or their guests or their teams. So we just take it very seriously and do the best we can with them.

Robin Cline: 38:35

Like you said, it's walk the talk and it obviously is what you all are doing on all fronts, and the thing that I'm hearing in all of that, too, is that what's happening here is, as you're doing, things like helping the community with providing the guard dogs, the sheep dogs for them and also the training that your employees are getting in the days that they get, they're going to be taking these practices home to their families, and then that's going to spread. They're going to their children, are going to learn these things and the new, younger generation that's coming in is going to learn these things, and then that starts to flow outward, and that's really the only way any of us are going to be able to make any of these changes. I mean, we can legislate all we want, but unless we teach people why these things are important and help them to understand that, that's not going to make a difference. I don't like it.

Victoria Tollman: 39:29

It's so true, it's exactly that. Yeah, yeah so oh my gosh.

Robin Cline: 39:34

Well, I could just talk all day to both of you about all this. I think, though, it's probably a good time and a good place to end our conversation, but I want to thank you both so much, and just know that I'm a big fan, love being able to have people come be your guests, because they're always so well cared for and everyone goes above and beyond, so I feel very, very fortunate to have learned about your properties and to be able to support them, and for you all to help take care of my very special clients.

Victoria Tollman: 40:12

Thank you. Thank you for giving us the opportunity, and the one thing I can proudly say is we will do our very best to take care of your clients, and it's all about the relationship. So thank you for allowing us the opportunity to speak with you today?

Robin Cline: 40:30

Absolutely yes, thank you and thank you, jonathan. I appreciate you taking the time because I know you are a busy man.

Jonathan Raggett: 40:37

I'm going to tell it to all of it it's we do these things and it's always nice when the person is as lonely as you just speak to you. So we genuinely thank you for your time and your friendship to both us and Rick on our nation. Those are really well, absolutely.

Robin Cline: 40:53

Like you just said, we all know, in this business it's all about relationships because and it's all about the passion we have for this business, because we wouldn't do it otherwise. That wraps up today's episode of the Intrepid Traveler. Thank you for tuning in and thank you to today's guests for joining me. I'll be back again in two weeks with another exciting episode featuring another guest with a story that is sure to pique your interest. Please subscribe to the Intrepid Traveler on your favorite listening channel and give us a review. Once again, today's episode has been brought to you by Clining Co Travel Consulting, a luxury adventure and expedition travel planning company specializing in un-googleable experiences.