Mastering Trade Shows with Mark Ghaffori

In this episode of Coffee in the Barn, we dive into the dynamic world of trade shows with industry expert Mark Ghaffori, who brings over 15 years of experience in organizing, strategizing, and elevating exhibitions across every sector imaginable. 

From agricultural expos to tech conferences, Mark shares what truly makes a trade show successful—and it's more than just flashy booths and freebies. We explore how to create meaningful connections, maximize ROI, and design interactive experiences that leave lasting impressions. Plus, we tackle the evolving challenges of balancing family life with professional commitments in an industry known for its hectic pace and constant travel. 

Whether you're an exhibitor, attendee, or event planner, this episode is packed with actionable strategies to transform how you approach trade shows—before, during, and after the event. 

What You’ll Learn in This Episode: 

✔️ How to stand out as an exhibitor without relying on giveaways 
✔️ Pre-show, during-show, and post-show tactics to boost ROI 
✔️ The future of trade shows in a hybrid and digital world 
✔️ Why location, experience, and purposeful planning matter more than ever 
✔️ The importance of avoiding the "same as last year" trap in event planning 

🔹 Guest Spotlight: Mark Ghaffori 

•  Founder of AlphaTooth, a company focused on innovative trade show strategies and experiential event design 
• 15+ years in trade show and exhibition management 
• Specialist in experiential event design and strategy 
• Advocate for balancing professional success with personal well-being 
• Expert in optimizing event ROI and customer engagement 

🎧 Tune in for behind-the-scenes insights, fun trade show stories (including concerts on the 50-yard line!), and tips to make every event count—whether you're on the show floor or planning from behind the scenes. 

Resources & Links: 

🔗 Connect with Mark Ghaffori on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marc-ghafoori-20753a55/
 🌐 Explore Mark’s work and event strategies at AlphaTooth: https://www.alphatooth.com/
🌱 Learn more about Animistic: https://animistic.co/ 

Looking for a way to express your unique personality and support your favorite podcast? Check out Buy Blackett—your go-to destination for hilarious, heartfelt, and stylish coffee mugs, apparel, and more! With every purchase, you’re not only adding a little fun to your daily routine but also helping Coffee in the Barn continue to bring you the latest in agriculture and beyond.

Visit www.buyblackett.com/Animistic and use pro

Transcript

0:00:00
(Casey Bradley)
Welcome to Coffee in the Barn, where every cup tells a story. With a rotating lineup of hosts, we invite you to join us as we explore the diverse challenges and triumphs of modern life and the heart of agriculture. From the fields to the classroom, from innovators to everyday visionaries. Each episode brings a fresh perspective and a new voice. So brew yourself a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's uncover the stories that shape our lives, our farms, and our communities.

0:00:39
(Morgan Hart)
Welcome back to this week's episode of Coffee in the Barn with Casey and Morgan.

0:00:49
(Morgan Hart)
Today we have Mark Ghaffori, who works with trade shows and exhibitions and could you tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you do, Mark?

0:01:02
(Mark G.)
Yeah, so I have worked in trade show industry specifically as a general service contractor with trade show organizers over the last 14, 15 years. So every industry sector, every vertical that's out there, I've worked with it from heavy to light industrial to religious shows, to tech, to finance, you name it.

0:01:25
(Mark G.)
I've helped to put some of those in and done some creative stuff with those guys.

0:01:30
(Casey Bradley)
Have you ever done any tractor shows?

0:01:32
(Mark G.)
I have actually. Case New Holland was a client of ours that we would do their event every... They didn't have an annual. It was like every three-ish years that they would kind of throw something together. So that was always a fun one.

0:01:47
(Casey Bradley)
Well, that's cool.

0:01:48
(Casey Bradley)
And we should also tell the audience, you are related by marriage to Tracy Snyder.

0:01:54
(Mark G.)
So that's true.

0:01:55
(Mark G.)
That is true.

0:01:55
(Casey Bradley)
How we connected, but your stuff was like, we connected because well, A, you're related to her, but B, you commented on one of our posts about talking about trade shows and how a lot of people Said the attendance bad. It just hasn't been high quality this year it's come up in a lot of conversations that I've had professionally and As curious, what are some of the most successful trade shows that you've helped organize and what made them stand out?

0:02:24
(Casey Bradley)
Let's start with the positive here some of the most successful trade shows that you've helped organize and what made them stand out?

0:02:25
(Casey Bradley)
Let's start with the positive here.

0:02:27
(Mark G.)
Yeah, so the most successful ones that I've been a part of, I've had the pleasure to be a part of, are ones that are focusing into the experiential aspect and what's creating like a connection between connecting multiple people or the different parties that are involved there.

0:02:46
(Mark G.)
So the one that I've kind of as a feather in my cap that I'm most proud of is PCMA. Gosh, I'm going to, I'm going to butcher the acronym, but basically it's a, it's an industry association for meeting planners and those folks that are associated with the events. And the reason I like that is because it allows

0:03:06
(Mark G.)
for like a deeper dive into why and how we do events. And we were, when I was with Heritage at that point, we were the general service contractor for them. So we were responsible for the physical execution of branding and graphics that were in the facility, setting up everything from

0:03:26
(Mark G.)
the boring side, like the tables and chairs and drape, carpet, and all of that. But what was interesting is we were involved with them on the strategy for producing the show. So it was where and how the sessions were taking place in the facility, where the expo hall, which they don't call an expo hall, it's the district, and the booths, which they don't call booths,

0:03:46
(Mark G.)
they're activations, how they all interacted with each other and how it fed in the facility between the general sessions, the breakout sessions, the expo space, and everything in between. And that was interesting to me, to think about it in the way of like the interconnectedness

0:04:05
(Mark G.)
of the attendees, the exhibitors, and the show manager that is putting this event on, because it's kind of a shared relationship to execute that event that really makes that being successful. And they always thought about that front and center

0:04:19
(Mark G.)
because it's a meeting planner organization, so they have to, you know.

0:04:24
(Casey Bradley)
They can't feel themselves. it's a meeting planner organization, so they have to, you know. So that was-

0:04:25
(Casey Bradley)
They can't fail themselves.

0:04:26
(Mark G.)
Right, well, and that's the interesting thing there is they test the waters and they're like leading the pack on a lot of things and it opens up opportunities for failure. But if you're honest about it and you talk about like why it failed, you can use that as a case study for the you know 5,000 attendees that are meeting planners that are showing up that are learning from that too because they're the tip of the spear

0:04:52
(Mark G.)
They're the ones that are really paving that path to show what's possible You're gonna fail when you're testing that you're trying to figure it out Now obviously you don't want to fail on the entire thing but you want to you want to pick those moments and pick those opportunities when you can choose to fail if you really have to. But I would say those moments were reduced and minimized

0:05:15
(Mark G.)
across the board to not have something that was really a detractor or adding a bump or a friction point for that overall experience that folks were having there.

0:05:26
(Morgan Hart)
So as in a, you know, Casey and I exhibit at a lot of different animal science meetings over the year, you know, World Pork, Isle Pork, Minnesota Pork, whatnot. As a exhibitor ourselves, whether we have a booth or we're just attending, how, I guess, this is, I think, I'm going to learn from you, because I would like to know how do we stand out as an exhibitor, as an exhibitor, compared to everyone else? Like, you know, we always see people having some interactive game or giving away freebies or something like how,

0:06:06
(Morgan Hart)
how do we attract meaningful conversations at our booth with our targeted customers without, you know, just giving away free stuff all the time?

0:06:19
(Mark G.)
Yeah, I think that is the, that's the best question to ask about someone who is having a physical representation there. Because you can think about it this way, like let's say, I don't know how much it costs to attend these, but let's just say it costs $5,000 to have just the space rented for your booth space. That's really just the tip of the iceberg for what the costs could be that are associated with

0:06:41
(Mark G.)
participation there. It could, in terms of like what your footprint actually is at the event and how to solicit and have those meaningful conversations there, it goes well beyond the 10 by 10 space or the 20 by 20 or what have you space that's allocated to where you are there.

0:07:00
(Mark G.)
That could go into sponsorship items that are with the show organizer to get your brand in closer proximity to where most of the other attendees are outside of the expo hall. The networking opportunities that exist within breakout sessions are also a really big driver

0:07:17
(Mark G.)
that help pull people over into the space because you can then just kind of rub shoulders in a non-sales way and a learning opportunity with other folks to be able to draw them back over into the booth space. But then the biggest component that I feel like a lot of people miss though,

0:07:36
(Mark G.)
is that the booth space that you have there is kind of a culmination of what is done up to that point. You know, it's a representation of your brand that has already been in place. It's a representation of communication with clients that have already been happening and you may be using those as a case study. So what you want to do is focus on the period of time leading up to that show for kind of

0:08:01
(Mark G.)
building hype and building momentum for what's going there. And that's not just necessarily putting a social post out there of saying like, hey, we're gonna be in booth 123 at an ABC Expo. You wanna actually talk to, if you can get your hands on the attendee list

0:08:16
(Mark G.)
to be able to find out what your clients, which of your clients are actually going to be there to have conversations with them one-on-one. And then potential clients of using case studies, using marketing materials to then feed into what your messaging is and what your communication is to them to lead up to that. And that bespoke kind of conversation, that bespoke

0:08:38
(Mark G.)
kind of interaction with them leading up to that is what will lead to them actually

0:08:50
(Mark G.)
Being aware of your presence on the floor because there might be a thousand other booths there if you're in a larger larger show

0:08:52
(Morgan Hart)
um Yeah, the last few years we've actually at world pork and iowa and minnesota Have uh actually been renting out a room also to have customer meetings And you know if we know our customers are going to be there ahead of time, we will be like, hey, we have a room available. Can we meet at this room to have a meeting to discuss XYZ?

0:09:17
(Morgan Hart)
So I think that's helped drive a little bit more, I don't wanna say private discussions, but more purposeful conversations.

0:09:29
(Mark G.)
I would say that's 100% spot on to book appointments and to book those scheduled conversations is extremely important before you actually get there. Because like if you think about a busy show program that's jam packed with sessions, you know, you're running from one place to the other. And that's a lot of times they put food and coffee

0:09:48
(Mark G.)
in the hallways. You're just grabbing it and running to the next thing. So as much as you can plan out ahead of time, maybe it's just me, but I struggle with the entirety of the agenda and being able to just do it on the fly, as much as I can have a conversation like this on the fly.

0:10:05
(Mark G.)
When I'm on show site, there's a lost opportunity of not going to the right session, not being in the right place to be able to talk to the right people. That if you plan that out methodically

0:10:16
(Mark G.)
and have those appointments scheduled ahead of time, people can, they can plan their day and plan what they should be doing. And same thing for the team that's representing the company in that space too.

0:10:32
(Casey Bradley)
Oh, wow. I feel totally different because I hate to go to shows with a planned agenda because I missed the authentic connections of people. Because if I have a planned meeting, I don't want to say to somebody, I'm sorry, I can't talk to you right now. I have to get to this meeting at 11 10 and I mean I had to do that I sacrificed my bathroom break this week because I was tearing a session I'm like I'm not looking at my clock because I want to not talk to you but I have to be back because I'm the chair and you know I don't like to have that agenda I had a cut even at IPPE this year. I have I had booked appointments in

0:11:07
(Casey Bradley)
Specific spots. So I use one of my customers booths to meet at I mean I was literally five minutes late and he left and he was upset because of the culture of Where he comes from and I'm like, you can't give somebody five minutes grace when I'm running across a gigantic expo hall to get there. And so that that kind of irritated me for the fact that there's no flexibility for people in that sense. And I'm like, well, fine, I'll just say, come find me. I don't know.

0:11:41
(Morgan Hart)
I think that's the thing, though, is though, is when you're trying to get to an appointment or a specific time of, okay, I need to be here at this time. That's when you run into the people that you wanna talk to on your way there. And it just always happens that way.

0:11:58
(Mark G.)
And what I would suggest is like, if you, you can think about it this way, is like the agenda has like anchor points of things that like have to happen while you're there. And what I would suggest is once you've established what those anchor points are, you can then manage to have meetings

0:12:12
(Mark G.)
around those anchor points and say like, hey, I'm gonna be over in this session room. Why don't you meet me outside of that session room at X time? And if it doesn't work for them because they're somewhere else then you kind of have that conversation to meet in the middle and you

0:12:25
(Mark G.)
Say like I might be late if that's the case but I I think there's There's so much truth to what you said there though Casey because it is hard to actually like you're having a really good deep conversation with somebody and then Sessions are popping up or something else is pulling

0:12:45
(Mark G.)
your attention and trying to like trying to split you in two. And that's where a challenge comes in, especially for folks that are both exhibiting and going to present on stage that are then also going for education. It's really difficult to split yourself like that across the board. And that's where I look at the show organizer of them having the responsibility to make sure that people have the ability to actually do things appropriately.

0:13:15
(Mark G.)
And that's where I lean into that experience factor of the customer journey, being the attendee, the exhibitor, or whoever that they look at throughout the entirety of that conference to see what is actually most conducive to them viewing the best and being the best

0:13:30
(Mark G.)
and having the best experience in that interaction. Because you could shut down the trade show floor and have sessions going live at this point in time. So that way you don't have to split staff, you don't have to split the need to be able to have somebody always in this space over here

0:13:45
(Mark G.)
to then also service this over here. It doubles your staff needs if that's the case. And some people may actually need to be over in the other areas and it just creates a difficulty there. But I get it. There's a time constraint.

0:13:57
(Mark G.)
You can't have the hall. You can't all be there for a week straight to be able to get every single thing done. And that's the nature of events sometimes is you walk away tired because you maybe only slept four hours a night for four or five days straight and you come back sick because you're trying to maximize every amount of time and every single thing that's there. And I like that aspect of it too, because it's kind of fun. It's the adrenaline rush of being on show site.

0:14:28
(Casey Bradley)
Well, at IPPE this year, I thought we had some really fun engagement that came over. So I partnered with Profile Animal Health, one of my clients, and we did a quiz bowl. And then we did live podcast interviews at their booth. And we brought a different set of people to interact

0:14:45
(Casey Bradley)
with them than normal. Obviously, yes, Morgan, we gave away winner, you know, prizes for the winners, but it's really fun to get people to come to the booth and engage. So kind of in that mind is how can you create more of an interactive and memorable booth experience to get people to want to come see you, even if they don't know you, right?

0:15:07
(Mark G.)
I think the biggest key there is instead of being in an opportunity where you have like a booth stand that I'm going to call it, where you have a pop-up that has messaging on it and you think you've checked the box and you're done. It's like, no, that's like telling someone about your brand,

0:15:24
(Mark G.)
telling someone about your company, rather than them being able to experience your company or experience what it is like to actually be a part of your organization and be a partner to what you do. And so like, I really liked that you were saying you, you kind of did two or three things there, Casey,

0:15:40
(Mark G.)
by what you just mentioned. You have an activation inside of your space of having a podcast or in the space that occurred there. And you're also bringing in the appointments, you're bringing in booked time with folks that you wouldn't traditionally have, or maybe they're existing clients or potential clients that are coming together to activate that experience in that space. And then by doing so, you're creating hype in that space. So passersby are then looking over to see, well, what's actually happening over there?

0:16:07
(Mark G.)
Like, what are those guys talking about? And that's the thing that you really want because it's hard to get eyes, in a several hundred booth show or even a 50 booth show, people are walking the aisles, they're walking by and they need something to be able to grab their attention

0:16:24
(Mark G.)
in a meaningful way and not in a hokey way. I mean, sometimes that works too. But, you know, and that's what I think is a really successful situation where you're kind of bringing them into that to experience what that relationship is by doing the podcast in particular, because it leans into a deeper conversation onto the subject matter at hand. It's a back and forth. If you're able to do it really well at an expo or at a trade show, you're able to have really deep conversations with

0:16:57
(Mark G.)
somebody to talk about what your product is and what your offering is, have them talk about their product and what their offering is, and to be able to figure out that dirty corporate word of synergy to be able to have like a true relationship that's symbiotic and beneficial to both parties. And that's like the true nature of a business event really is being able to learn what these two separate entities do to be able to have them mesh together in a really meaningful, powerful way that goes above a one plus one. It's like an exponential effect

0:17:30
(Mark G.)
of what that relationship could look like.

0:17:33
(Morgan Hart)
So as you've been working within the trade show space for the last 10, 15 years, how has the integration of the customers at the trade shows as well as the exhibitors at the trade shows, have you seen the audience change? Or even the attendance-wise of both parties, do you think trade shows are still going to have a value in the next 5- 10 years?

0:18:03
(Mark G.)
I think, so I'm gonna use the pandemic as a case study for why trade shows are not going anywhere. Over that course of time in 2020,

0:18:16
(Mark G.)
to let's call it early portions of 21 in a very meaningful way, everything happened virtually.

0:18:24
(Mark G.)
There were some events that happened, but still with caution, and there was a hesitancy to really engage. And what we saw over that course of time was like, once events started to happen, like the floodgates were open

0:18:36
(Mark G.)
and people like fled to the show floor and they fled back to it because there's so much revenue that's generated there in those interactions. And it was a really good opportunity to figure out how to make hybrid work and how to make virtual work to a meaningful way and what place and what opportunity to insert

0:18:54
(Mark G.)
that into a program in a beneficial way because we were forced to. And we learned what does and what doesn't work of the physical and what does and what doesn't work of the physical and what does and what doesn't work of digital. And the reason that I say that it's not going anywhere is that, you know, everyone fled back for a reason. And that reason was the experiences and the shared knowledge that's distributed over that course of time. That precise small moment of time that's never over that course of time, that precise small moment of time

0:19:26
(Mark G.)
that's never going to exist again. And there was so much growth that happened from that. Like if you look at the global economy that really shifted over the course of the pandemic, it was also because of supply chain issues that occurred, but it was a large factor of that was based on the lack

0:19:48
(Mark G.)
of business development that occurred from the trade show floor and from those business interactions that occurred while they're at those specific events. And you saw a delayed start or a delayed effect from folks that didn't necessarily need

0:20:04
(Mark G.)
that face-to- delayed effect from folks that didn't necessarily need that that face to face interaction from folks in, in like the corporate sector or in the tech sector, because they already had relationships built for them to be able to leverage outside of the trade show floor, and corporate strategy and the physical planning on their side was on an annual basis. So they couldn't recommit their marketing spend and their marketing budget to jump back into the trade show world until like early portion of 23

0:20:30
(Mark G.)
for how things were affecting. And you've seen that ramp up over that course of time to be into a really meaningful place again. The one thing that I would say right now that is throwing things into the process is anything that has grants

0:20:47
(Mark G.)
or anything that has international attendance is seeing things that are in fluctuation based on where things are politically. And I'm not trying to go into any political spectrum of what's good, what's bad, but it's a reality of where we are right now

0:20:59
(Mark G.)
of the attendance being affected by that, by those factors, as well as what the executable product is for a lot of folks. And that's going into a lot of different areas in logistics and industrial sectors and folks that are having attendance coming from international areas are seeing challenges in visa acquisition

0:21:25
(Mark G.)
to be able to participate on that side. But for those folks that are US based and that are that are producing here in the US, it's fantastic. So that's why I'm like, I don't I don't want to get into the politics of it at all. But what it is, it's a situation of change that if it's leveraged appropriately, there's going to be some folks that win, and

0:21:46
(Mark G.)
there's going to be some folks that lose in the process of that. I'm not saying it's going to be balanced, but the ones that are that are here and the ones that are able to leverage that change are going to be successful in the process.

0:21:58
(Casey Bradley)
I want to talk about families and trade shows. I mean, we talked a lot about family. And a lot of these trade shows are in vacation destination places. And I'll use SuperZoo as an example. I had to pay fifteen hundred dollars to be at SuperZoo. And obviously, if I wanted to bring my son, I would have had to pay the fifteen hundred dollars for him, how do we make trade shows more where we can integrate our children and our families to kind of get to know what mom and dad do and meet the people we work with and see that

0:22:33
(Casey Bradley)
we're not just, you know, when my son first started speaking, we explained what mom did for work was on the Fed pigs to grow fast. And now he's understanding more, but how do we make trade shows that can integrate family, working parents, things like that. I mean, we've talked a lot about that on this podcast and things that we have done and tried to push to advocate for working moms and things,

0:22:58
(Casey Bradley)
but what is your mind of how do we integrate family and that experience in to get people behind our brand that may be the next generation of buyers or decision makers.

0:23:12
(Mark G.)
Yeah. So that is something that has to be that has to be enacted within the association or the show manager that's actually planning and putting on that event. They have to think of that from the get-go, purposefully, how to cater to and how to allow for those folks to actually be there and participate. So something that's been there for years is like a space that's devoted to new mothers that are breastfeeding or that are needing to take care of things. There's little pods that you can rent

0:23:45
(Mark G.)
to plop down onto a trade show floor in those spaces of high activity so they don't have to walk maybe all the way, you know, a quarter mile back over to the facility to do that. There's also like family spaces or family rooms

0:23:58
(Mark G.)
that can be established to not necessarily drop off your kids, but to be able to go there and decompress for a little bit and spend some time in a quiet space to be able to actually be okay in that situation. To have kids and have family participate in the trade show, it's a lot easier.

0:24:16
(Mark G.)
Breakout sessions, that's another story because there's room for distractions to occur on that side that's a little bit harder to manage. But what can be done is programmatic elements, like things that are not centered around alcohol are obviously much easier to do for those situations

0:24:36
(Mark G.)
when you have a high family attendance situation, as well as offsite opportunities while the show itself is going on for maybe a spouse and kids that are attending that are going to join up with you later, they can go participate things on their own. And it's a revenue generator for the show organizer too on that side, because if they're organizing that aspect, it's a sellable component. Maybe it's not the $1500 attendance that you're talking about, Casey, but maybe it's an a la carte purchase that's associated with that. And a lot of the industry, for better or worse, is a situation where the line in between professional and personal is really like bled together. And it's really hard to differentiate

0:25:21
(Mark G.)
there. And I say for better or for worse, because you could work 20 hours a day sometimes because of that. But then the other side of it is, you might have a really good relationship with another family, another person in the industry, and their spouse, and their kids,

0:25:39
(Mark G.)
and that offers up the opportunity for just a better, deeper connection with the folks that are there. So if you offer up the opportunity for just a better, deeper connection with the folks that are there. So if you offer up that opportunity for something else to happen, outside of the typical programming here,

0:25:53
(Mark G.)
you can create that separate, but still beneficial experience for the families and the folks that are attending, and then coming back together for a shared experience too, with the overall conference and the overall activity. There's the deeper connection that you have to the personal

0:26:10
(Mark G.)
and to the actual like human element at any event in any industry sector, the more beneficial the experience is and the more that there will be value that's obtained from that. Because a lot of the opportunities are created in those moments.

0:26:30
(Casey Bradley)
Well, Morgan, I think we should try to get the slides going at World Pork this year or something, or those swings that go around the fairgrounds.

0:26:37
(Morgan Hart)
Oh. Did they have-

0:26:40
(Casey Bradley)
I'll just see if I take my kid or not.

0:26:43
(Morgan Hart)
Did they have the trolley, not trolley, the, not the swings, but they have that, yeah, the swings.

0:26:52
(Casey Bradley)
They go?

0:26:53
(Morgan Hart)
I don't know, have they in the past? They're never actually, I mean, they have the stuff there. We can have some family fun,

0:27:01
(Casey Bradley)
besides all the free barbecue, but.

0:27:06
(Casey Bradley)
Yeah. fun besides all the free barbecue. But yeah,

0:27:07
(Mark G.)
well, I guess that's ultimately what you, what you have to do is you have to think about the persona of the folks that are being there, the attendees, the exhibitors, the, you know, any, anybody else that's there and association with those folks too. And the more that you can integrate them into the program of what's happening on the daily basis, the,, the better the situation is.

0:27:28
(Morgan Hart)
Yeah, I have some colleagues and I think it's relatively common, especially in the if the show's two days long and they are close enough that they can drive, then one goes one day and then has to come home and like relieve the other one and then the other one goes the next day. And so there's, there's a lot of juggling that goes on. For some people,

0:27:59
(Mark G.)
there's a big opportunity there for someone smarter than than me, to come up with a way to get some money and some way to be able to come up with a way to generate some money and some way to be able to activate that in a really beneficial way. I haven't seen a situation like what you described that someone is doing it to the best or to a high degree of being able to have the entirety of that family to be able to integrate it. 

0:28:22
(Casey Bradley)
Well, the one school that does it and I've not been is NPIC up at Wisconsin Dells because the kids are in the water park while the adults are attending the sessions.

0:28:34
(Morgan Hart)
Yes, they do. And then the, then the, yeah, so I took our family three years ago. But that's when we only had one kid and my husband was able to

0:28:47
(Morgan Hart)
manage on his own. But it's a little hard to juggle. The kids in water are scary. Yeah, maybe my other in-law will have to come next time. But yeah, like the opening reception, they have like a band and it's super like family friendly.

0:29:07
(Morgan Hart)
And then the afternoon of one of the days is just designated to just being outdoors at the water park. And each company has their own villa. And then, you know, families come eat, you meet with people that you need to meet with, or you just sit and eat and drink

0:29:24
(Morgan Hart)
and go down some water slides. But yeah, that's a very good example, Casey.

0:29:26
(Casey Bradley)
Wait, Mark, you keep mentioning money and MPIC is not a cheap conference to attend or sponsor in participating in because of that, right? Because we want to,

0:29:40
(Casey Bradley)
it's investing in the family, but putting on my company owner and this is my debate I've had working for companies we don't do trade shows I don't believe it we only do select ones we'll spend 200 grand on IPPE but we won't do anything else the rest of

0:29:56
(Casey Bradley)
the year but sponsor different things and then I hear like well we're not getting any ROI and it's and I would say at IPPE this year, it was so nice to say, I'm either going to be at this booth or this booth. That was almost more valuable to have a landing pad to find people and connect with people. But how do you, what's some strategies exhibitors can do to get the best return on investment from trade shows? Because you mentioned pre, and I'm sure there's some post and during, like what is your mind of,

0:30:28
(Casey Bradley)
and how do you look at ROI? Like next 12 month sales cycle, how do you look at that investment over time?

0:30:38
(Mark G.)
So that's actually an extremely hard thing to track down because it changes for every industry, for every company, for every company and for every strategy that folks are doing. I'm not trying to give that blanket statement to give myself buyout here, but it's difficult to be able to tie down. And honestly, like so I left the industry for a short period of time for six, seven months and went to

0:31:02
(Mark G.)
a digital marketing agency. This will gonna, this will tie back in, I promise, just bear with me. The thing that really attracted me to that was that the agency had a direct tie to ROI based on the work that was being done. And I really liked that because their customer base

0:31:20
(Mark G.)
were small and medium-sized businesses and the ability to impact those businesses, the local communities that they supported and everyone else that was supported from them, like their customers, the employees and everyone would see a benefit from that service offering. So it was like a very black and white. You do this and you see this. With trade shows, it's not so much. With business events, it's not so much. You know, with business events it's not so much

0:31:46
(Mark G.)
because you have to really track of like where your customer base is, where your audience is. And you can think about it this way. You can track all of your expenses and all of your time that's allocated towards what's called marketing,

0:32:00
(Mark G.)
which is what trade shows are in the end. And you put that into a spreadsheet that's top to bottom, you can allocate costs in a column that's associated with that, and you can allocate time that's committed to that in a general degree.

0:32:11
(Mark G.)
But if you're not actually tracking where those things are in the marketing funnel itself, like you might be spending a tremendous amount of time at trying to secure leads or trying to secure your audience way, way high up in that

0:32:25
(Mark G.)
funnel when they're not, they don't really know who you are and they're just learning about your brand. Or you might be spending your time and energy way down here at the very bottom, right before it comes into acquisition of that customer actually signing on the dotted line to work with you. And that's extremely costly down here, because it's usually the folks that are leveraging that area and have the control over The the audience to be able to distribute to you know that and they're charging higher for that

0:32:52
(Mark G.)
so like if you if you're looking at it methodically of that funnel from from top to bottom of like where your spend is compare your Allocate where your spend is on your your spreadsheet that you have put together. You can then plot out where your strategy is and kind of where you're putting your focus on to see if it's misaligned. And then you can also go in and refine that

0:33:13
(Mark G.)
to see if maybe there needs to be some additional adjustment. And the way that you can think about that is, instead of looking at it as a pure ROI, you can think about what the progression is between those different phases

0:33:28
(Mark G.)
to be able to measure success instead of a pure ROI. Because showing up on a trade show one year might put your brand in front of someone else or might put your company in front of someone else and three years down the road, they're like, oh yeah, I saw them at this one point in time.

0:33:45
(Mark G.)
And it's funny how the brain works, you know, it takes, what is it, seven to 11 times to be able to have that brand recognition to click, to be able to have them progress into actually moving on and moving past just sitting. Like the number of times that you scroll past an ad

0:34:00
(Mark G.)
on Instagram or what have you. And that's ultimately what it is. It is trying to track that tip of the spear brand recognition to signing on the dotted line and closing that deal over here. Sometimes that could be a multi-year cycle

0:34:18
(Mark G.)
depending on the industry. Sometimes that can be down to the minutes which is a lot better because you can track that ROI with a high degree of certainty. But for those industries that have a long sales cycle and a long marketing cycle, it's really hard to track.

0:34:33
(Mark G.)
So what I always suggest is to try to track the progression through those different gate checks that you have. Okay, how many leads do you have coming in that are actually coming in here? And how much of those convert over into that next phase of the process? And you can measure successes based off of that to then determine at the very bottom

0:34:53
(Mark G.)
end where the ROI is, because at the end of the day, it's a numbers game. If you have enough feeding into the funnel off the top, there will be a certain percentage that pass on to the next and pass on to the next and pass on to the next. And you can then measure your success based on how quickly they move through

0:35:10
(Mark G.)
that,

0:35:10
(Mark G.)
what the quantity is that moves through that and what percentage actually moves

0:35:15
(Mark G.)
through that.

0:35:16
(Mark G.)
Those couple of different measures are what I always suggest because ROI in the trade show industry is just so darn hard to, to, to pin down.

0:35:25
(Casey Bradley)
Let's let you know on a high note instead of so serious. This is supposed to be a fun podcast. I mean, we talked about like the, you know, the best trade show you've seen. What has been the most fun experience or something, right? Like it just stands out out like this was just awesome.

0:35:46
(Mark G.)
They did it. Yes. You know kind of. I got I got one. I got one for you. So this was I don't know back in the back in the 20 teens. I don't remember what year exactly but I worked for this this analytics. I worked for a show that was in analytics and it was taking place in Dallas and they rented out the Dallas Cowboys stadium. I am not a football fan, you know, you can hate me for that, but I will say it doesn't really matter if you're a football fan or not. Like they had the 2000-ish people in attendance

0:36:25
(Mark G.)
on the floor and then they had one Republic at that time. It was like right before they had, like their album went like triple platinum or whatever. And it was like, they captured them right at the, that perfect time. And they had a stage on the field.

0:36:40
(Mark G.)
You could be on the 50 yard line, like right in the middle. And I remember I have a panoramic shot, like looking around the entire stadium there from the center of the field. And just being in that crowd, being a part of that with like 2000 people,

0:36:53
(Mark G.)
I was like, you know, five feet away from the stage with that amount of people, there's easy ability to get close. It was just like such a lasting fun experience. It's like, I will always remember that brand that was associated with that experience

0:37:08
(Mark G.)
and oh God, was it expensive, I'm sure, for them to be able to pull that off. But it was so worth it for me, from my perspective. It was awesome. It was just so, it was so, it was just fun, you know? Being there on the field, being there with the group that was there at that point in time.

0:37:27
(Mark G.)
It was one of the funner experiences that I've had.

0:37:31
(Morgan Hart)
Well, I think, you know, you mentioned that the, that specific trade show was in Dallas at the Cowboy Stadium. I feel like just even the venue and the location of where the shows are at as well plays into a big part into even if people want to even go. Can you talk a little bit more on like what makes the perfect trade show city?

0:38:03
(Mark G.)
So this is a dirty conversation that destination management organizations don't want to talk about. I am not a DMO, so I can talk about that. There's a very real challenge of destinations in being able to be categorized into certain levels of priority. You know, there are some cities that are just more attractive

0:38:25
(Mark G.)
based on the nature of that city. They've got some special sauce, you know, like people go to Nashville because Nashville's fun. They've got Broadway, they've got music, they've got so much. You know, people go to Orlando

0:38:38
(Mark G.)
because there's so much there. There's so much to name, you know. Las Vegas is a different scene and a different element. And those different cities offer different things. And you could, I'll say, you could, nothing kills an attendance more than going into a location

0:38:52
(Mark G.)
where it doesn't match with the personality of the attendee persona and the clients and customers who want to be there. So like looking at it from a perspective of like, what do people want to do? What are the interests of the folks that are there?

0:39:08
(Mark G.)
And i'm not saying that there's not something that you could find in any any of the locations and they'll say I love I love all cities that are out there. I've always found something that's awesome within every one of those places But some of those that are a little bit more than some of the others, um so more than some of the others. So I don't know if that answers your question or not, but I think it's hard,

0:39:29
(Mark G.)
it's really hard to say what it is within those cities that makes them special for what they are. Some of them have their like kitschy things, like Phoenix has cactuses that they always market, and you always see a guitar in Nashville at shows, and in Denver you always see you always see a guitar in Nashville it shows and and uh in in Dunbar you always see mountains in the in the graphics and everything

0:39:49
(Mark G.)
is produced there and they lean into that um but there's there's some things that are specific to those markets that um kind of create that little magic for them um that are unique to locations and some of them attract and draw more than others do.

0:40:06
(Casey Bradley)
And I just point out, so I've done a lot of technical event planning, especially at AV Vista a little bit. You know, Iowa Fork, we want to have it in Des Moines because that's easy for our audience to get to and it's kind of really important,

0:40:21
(Casey Bradley)
the type of audience, right? But when we, so two really successful events that we hosted to do a technical seminar, I had it out in Vegas, because they were looking in Orlando and different places. I said, why not Vegas?

0:40:36
(Casey Bradley)
We can do this. We run it, the stratosphere, and we did like some people did the bungee jumping. And so we integrated the locations activities. What I hate is I've been to a lot of trade shows or meetings and I go to awesome cities,

0:40:50
(Casey Bradley)
but I don't ever get to see it. I see the conference room and the hotel. Yeah, and you know, and maybe this, I did one in Chicago. We went up to Sears Tower. We integrated the city and the experience of that city

0:41:04
(Casey Bradley)
into what we did.

0:41:05
(Casey Bradley)
And I've had team meetings, you know, in Amsterdam, we took one of our dinners was on a boat tour in the canals. So I think that's my mind Morgan's more integrating that unique perspective of that destination into the meeting or trade show event itself. So people actually get to experience it

0:41:26
(Casey Bradley)
because there's reasons to have regional shows for family, you know, people who work on farms can't go, but if I'm gonna take a vacation and go, I think integrating that city's charm or activities into the event is absolutely critical.

0:41:44
(Mark G.)
And you're allied to be able to execute something like that from an exhibitor side, from a show manager side, is gonna be a representative from that local city's convention and visitors bureau. There's a convention visitors bureau in almost every city that has trade shows.

0:42:04
(Mark G.)
And their whole job is to make sure that the experience of folks that come there is fantastic. So like they welcome those conversations of where do I go? I'm looking to do something that's unique and fun and I want to integrate my team and they'll have that back and forth conversation to figure out like what it is that makes up your group and what they're into, what they're not into,

0:42:28
(Mark G.)
and be able to steer you onto a path, because especially for the folks that are traveling and doing road shows or going to different locations, it can be hard, unless you've been in that spot several times, and even if you have. To what she said, you may not have had the chance

0:42:41
(Mark G.)
to actually break out and see the city and see that area to a she said, like you may not have had the chance to actually break out and see the city and see that area to a higher degree. But those folks that are in the convention and visitors bureau, they live and breathe that. They know all of the new shops, the new restaurants and the new places that are all opening up

0:42:55
(Mark G.)
six months down the road when your event is just hitting the ground. And also the ones that are like, maybe overly hyped and busy and your team would be struggling with getting into there They'll be able to talk to those things to a higher degree. Oh

0:43:10
(Casey Bradley)
yeah, we definitely utilize those in our planning but We're just it's more the regional shows that I think a lot of people have talked about We can use this week's example, recording after Midwest Animal Science. Everybody was so happy to have it at Omaha because the way the convention center set up with the Hilton and the bar area and just the layout made it so much easier to interact and network.

0:43:39
(Casey Bradley)
That's why we like the venue. It's not really the city or the location. It was the ability to have that experience with each other. But then we go to these regional pork shows where they're saying a lot of people's not at. And to me, you know, we see we don't have foreign managers coming in.

0:43:58
(Casey Bradley)
It's that experience or creating an atmosphere or a value that would bring them back to come. A reason to want to come. I mean people are not just keeping them out because of the excuses we give it. If there is something really valuable for their employees to learn at these shows, they would be sending their employees. And so I think that's where we're at as an industry is how do we make all these shows valuable to the original target audience

0:44:29
(Casey Bradley)
that we created these venues for?

0:44:33
(Mark G.)
Well, I think you're onto something there because what can happen over the course of time of putting on the shows, so they can fall into what I call a Sally category, a same as last year. And, you know, sometimes as a meeting planner,

0:44:53
(Mark G.)
a show organizer, contractor, or what have you, the, you can fall into that, that sticky situation of, well, we'll just, this worked last time, so we're just gonna redo that again this time. And it doesn't always work that way.

0:45:10
(Mark G.)
There's some statistic out there that says you should be changing, it's either 40% or 60%, I can't remember. 40 or 60% of your program, that's a big difference, but you should change that amount of your program to be able to have it,

0:45:23
(Mark G.)
have new life and new breath from a year to year, from event to event. And having a core aspect of that, though, is really important to be able to retain an identity of what it is that's actually driving folks there. And making sure that that stays true and that stays in the interaction throughout is really what's important. Because that can be something that really magnetizes folks to that event.

0:45:52
(Mark G.)
Or it can be something that repels folks. And that can be beneficial because it then removes the folks that are not actually there for the core purpose that's driving that event and that function. And that's a really important factor is making sure

0:46:06
(Mark G.)
that that core aspect is retained. And it's really showing through and what the programmatic elements are throughout the whole life of that organization

0:46:18
(Mark G.)
and those events.

0:46:20
(Casey Bradley)
Well, we've talked a long time and I have one more question to fill in. This is gonna be a longer episode so bear with me audience We've talked about event planning exhibitors. How can it attend me? Make a trade show very valuable to them

0:46:38
(Mark G.)
From my perspective being open to I would say, walking into it with not really any predisposed expectations. And that sounds overly broad and, I don't know, like cheesy. But honestly, that's what it is. I've had many situations where I walk into a conversation where I'm like, okay this guy's this guy's just gonna sell me

0:47:10
(Mark G.)
He's gonna lay it on but then I get there and after five minutes we talk about family We talked about what we do for fun and then I figure out actually oh, there's there's actually a connection here of something That's really valuable. And not to say that I haven't walked into those situations, and that has panned out the way that I thought that it was, but the majority of them have not. And because I was open to having the conversation, and I did shake the hand, and I did

0:47:35
(Mark G.)
have those opportunities present themselves in that way, I didn't say no. I continued through, and I followed through with that. And then the other thing that I would say is there's a tendency to go back to the room and try to get work done because it's always there and the inbox is always stacking up and you know there's things that need to be the call that needs to be made or what have you. But I would say don't. You know let those sit

0:47:59
(Mark G.)
and handle those in chunked time to be able to make sure that you're prioritizing the here and the now and why you're why you're on Boots in the ground like you committed a lot of money and time to be there. So so commit that don't don't split your focus Keep it at this as much as you can in that moment as you can to be able to Participate actively into what's actually happening around you If you're doing those two things then you, then you'll be pretty successful from that side. It's overly broad, but I think that is something

0:48:31
(Mark G.)
that has shown time and time again, for me at least, what can be done beneficially there.

0:48:39
(Morgan Hart)
I'm glad you made that comment because I think I find myself falling into that trap too. When you're at a trade show that lasts three or four days, the emails keep stacking up, you're still getting the phone calls, you have customers you need to service that aren't there, and how do you balance all of those things?

0:48:56
(Mark G.)
You're onto something there too. On the third day, it's really, really tempting not to go to that reception or it's really, really tempting not to go to that reception or it's really really tempting not to go to that breakout or what-have-you and Like fight that urge to not go like you can come up with a thousand Million excuses of why not to actually be present to be there, but just follow through with it like you know Just I like to think about it this way. What what will future mark like? More than what present Mark likes?

0:49:26
(Mark G.)
And if you make a decision for future self at that point, you'll be making, even if it feels wrong in the moment, it will be net positive for what will be good long term because you're making a decision that will ultimately benefit you in the long run. I try to use that filter, but it doesn't always pan out.

0:49:44
(Mark G.)
But it has proven successful when I try to I try to use that filter but it doesn't always pan out but you know It has proven successful when I think about it from that perspective of I'm not gonna regret going to this thing But I would regret not going because I won't have that connection. I won't I won't have that that FOMO That's that's associated with it too. Like I know that I'll have that but I I know that I won't have that

0:50:08
(Casey Bradley)
Well, this has been a great conversation we really appreciate it If people wanted to get a hold of you to help them create the best event ever. How do they get a hold of you mark?

0:50:20
(Mark G.)
So I would say the best thing really is to find me on LinkedIn I've got a goofy last name.'s hard to mix me up with somebody else. My first name is spelled with a C, so that makes life easier too. Just do a search for me on there and I'm happy to chat through and happy to help anybody on that site.

0:50:38
(Casey Bradley)
And we'll have you linked in the profile. With the Buzzsprout app, we can link hosts with their LinkedIn profiles. So we'll get that set up for you. So thanks again, Mark.

0:50:49
(Mark G.)
Yeah, thank you for having me.

0:50:50
(Casey Bradley)
Yeah, with that, thank you for providing some behind the scenes insight into how we should act and successfully pull off a trade show.

0:51:03
(Mark G.)
Yeah, this has been fun. I love talking about this stuff. And if you can tell, I kind of go on, I get on my soapbox and I keep going. So you gotta tell me when sometimes.

0:51:12
(Mark G.)
Okay, all right. Okay, all right.

0:51:13
(Morgan Hart)
I love it. Thanks. 🎵