Ep. 81 The Creative High: Addiction, Expression & Finding Your Way Back - with Adriana Marchione

Welcome back to the HEAR HER podcast! 

In this episode, Heather is joined by Adriana Marchione—filmmaker, expressive arts therapist, and founder of Art Cures—for an honest, expansive conversation about addiction, recovery, and the healing power of creative expression.

Together, we explore addiction not only in the traditional sense, but as the many ways we disconnect, numb, and move away from ourselves. Adriana shares how creativity can become a powerful pathway back—not as performance or perfection, but as a way to feel, to process, and to reconnect with what’s real.

We talk about The Creative High, her work supporting recovery through expressive arts, and how engaging with color, texture, and the senses can gently bring us back into presence. This conversation is an invitation to meet yourself with more honesty, soften judgment, and discover new ways of being with your inner world.

We Explore:

• Addiction and the many ways we numb or disconnect
• Creativity as a pathway for healing and recovery
• The Creative High and expressive arts as an alternative to substance use
• Letting go of perfectionism and self-judgment
• Engaging the senses to return to presence
• Simple, creative ways to process emotions and reconnect with yourself

Connect with Today’s Guest

Website:        https://art-cures.com
Instagram:    https://www.instagram.com/adrianamarchione
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/artcureslifeart

🎥 FILMS

The Creative High:          https://thecreativehigh.com
When The Fall Comes:   https://whenthefallcomes.com

🎁 Free Gift from Adriana
A beautiful 10-Day Creative Gratitude Practice

A simple, self-guided journey using creative expression to explore gratitude, presence, and connection through your senses. Each day offers a prompt to inspire reflection, play, and a deeper appreciation for life.

✨ Access the practice here:
https://art-cures.com/creativegratitudepractice/

WORK WITH HEATHER

✨ Join the HEAR HER Sisterhood: email us at divinelysensitive@gmail.com for your personal invitation OR set up a 15-minute complimentary call with Heather to explore and ask questions

✨ Book a Session at OverSoul (Charlottesville, VA) - https://oversoulhealingcenter.janeapp.com/#/staff_member/35

Let’s Stay in Touch

Join the Email Community:   https://artisanal-teacher-5816.kit.com/2212c835d6
Instagram:                                https://www.instagram.com/divinelysensitive/
Facebook:                                 https://www.facebook.com/hearherpodcast
Email:                                         divinelysensitive@gmail.com

Thank you for listening!🙏

If this episode resonated, inviting you to like, subscribe, or share the podcast with your people — it helps this work reach the hearts it’s meant for.💗

Until next time, may you remember to quiet the chaos, tune inward, and HEAR HER. ✨

Transcript

Speaker 0:06

Hello, lovely listeners and welcome back to another episode of the Hear Her podcast. It is so wonderful to be here with you if you're new around here. Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm Heather, founding mother of Divinely Sensitive, an energy doula and spiritual guide. Us Walking Women Home to themselves and at the heart of my work is the Hear her sister. An online space to come home to yourself again and again and again. It's a place to explore your intuition at your own pace, rooted in the sacred feminine, the seasons, and the natural world. Inside, you'll find monthly guided journeys. Meditations, Oracle Readings, live gatherings. Simple yet potent practices and so much more. All alongside a loving community of like-hearted women, learning to trust themselves in these uncertain times. So if you're feeling the pull for connection or support, there's a link in the show notes to join our online community. And if you're local to the Charlottesville area or passing through, come see me at Overs, soul Healing Center. It's such a cozy spot. I offer Reiki, private sound, bath, and intuitive energy medicine sessions. I would love to meet you where you are.

Speaker 2 1:43

Today's guest weaves intuition through art in the most. Moving ways. Our conversation was vulnerable, beautiful, and truly inspiring. A little fun fact, I graduated with BA in Theater. I sing, I play piano. I am on the Arts and Western education board here in my hometown, and I have always been an advocate for the arts.. Weaving, healing and arts together creates the most stunning fabric. I was beyond excited when today's guest said yes. Adriana Marc has been involved in the arts for over 30 years as an award-winning filmmaker dancer photographer, and is internationally recognized for her work as a movement-based expressive arts therapist and educator. Since 2002, Adriana has mentored thousands of students as a faculty member of the renowned Tamala Wheat Institute in Canada. And through her thriving business Art Cures where she coaches clients and teaches courses, she has presented her creative healing approach with a focus on addiction, eating disorders, trauma and grief at festivals, conferences, and treatment centers, including South by Southwest, the National Council on Drug and Alcohol Dependence, and the Commonwealth Club. Her films include when the fall comes 2014, which is based on her own life story of encountering intimate grief and loss when the fall comes, was translated into French and Korean and streamed in universities across America. And Canada through Canopy, her latest film, the Creative High 2021, a feature documentary featuring artists in recovery from addiction has screened at film festivals around the United States. The documentary has received numerous awards including Jury Prize for Excellence in American Profiles from San Francisco Indie Fest, and best documentary for women in film at the Austin Indie Fest Notably, she received the Artist of the Year Award from In Recovery Magazine in 2016. You are in for such a treat. This is such a beautiful, intuitive conversation and I cannot wait to share it with you. Okay, loves. Here we go.

Heather 4:02

Welcome, welcome, welcome, Adriana. It is so good to be here with you on the Hear Her Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Adriana 4:10

I'm so happy to be here. It's, it's great to meet you.

Heather 4:14

It's great to meet you too. My lovely listeners, as we always do, let's start with a little grounding meditation, something to bring us into the present moment. So inviting you if you are able to close your eyes and that feels good and safe for you. And to just begin to feel your feet on the ground. Notice where your breath is in this moment. No shame or judgment, just bringing in awareness, noticing if maybe you have some tension somewhere in your body. Inviting you to breathe in to that space. Breathe in the energy of healing love, and on the exhale, releasing whatever energy is ready to leave the body. Beautiful. And as you breathe, allowing yourself to let go and release anything that was happening before you landed here with us. And anything that you have going on after letting go of that energy. The friendly reminder to yourself that it will all be waiting for you when you're finished breathing, and giving yourself the gift of being present here with us today. Breathe. I am inviting you to tap gently on your heart space as you breathe. Calling up with that, tapping anything that might feel heavy on your heart today. Anything that you're able to call up and release in this moment. And if you're still tapping and you feel complete, you can stop. Just do a little brushing and sweeping of that heart space, maybe placing your hands over your heart gently. Breathe. Breathe. Beautiful, and maybe one last deep, deep breath. Maybe the deepest breath you've taken yet today. And when you feel complete, inviting you to open your eyes, maybe stretch a little bit. If that feels good, shake out your hands to release some more of that energy. And welcome, welcome, welcome to the present moment. It is so. Wonderful to be here with you, Adriana.

Adriana 8:18

Hi. Hello.

Heather 8:22

Well, as we always do, we're gonna start with how you sprinkle your magic on the world.

Adriana 8:32

For me, it's just being a creative person. It's really being. Tuned into creative expression, creative impulse, and also how art can heal us.

Heather 8:46

Mm-hmm.

Adriana 8:47

I really do that by working with people in a therapeutic way, by guiding people in group settings, by training people to do that with others. Uh, and yeah, I think that's where I'm the most. Effective and I feel like the most alive.

Heather 9:09

Hmm. That's beautiful. In a world of consumption, creatives are so important.

Adriana 9:18

Yeah.

Heather 9:19

Yeah,

Adriana 9:19

I think more than we sometimes can acknowledge or really give permission even to ourselves to take time for it or see how art is everywhere. Like it infuses our life constantly and, and just, you know, in our homes and in our environments and nature and, um, and the things we love to. Take in even Netflix is art. Depends on the show, but

Heather 9:53

Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. So hear her. We talk a lot about harnessing the power of your intuition and so I would love to start. Um, back when you were younger and I'm so curious, was intuition, inner wisdom something that was, um, something that you grew up with? Was it something in your family? Is it something that came from Right? We all have intuition. It's just a question of when we awaken to it. So I would love to hear a little bit about the beginning of your journey and, and how you came through to what you're doing. And how intuition really wove itself through all of that.

Adriana 10:39

Yeah, I really, I, I feel like there wasn't any clear access to it in terms of getting that information in. It would've been nice. Uh, but I, I don't think that was, that wasn't the strong suit or even really the FI mean, the framework was so different. You know, when I was growing up, it was just so different and I, I do know deeply that I was a sensitive person from the very start that I was born with a very tuned in nervous system with a very, uh, just clear sense of. What was around me, you know, it's like what I would tune into what felt good or I would tune into what felt uncomfortable. I had really strong dreams from early on. Um, and we also did a lot of traveling when I was younger, some international and some national, you know, within the states and, um. Change was hard for me. So I think that I would really, like, it would take a while for me to kind of orient myself to new environments and to me that, um, that gave me the opportunity in some ways to really dig into my own, my own sense of safety or just trying to find. Hmm. Trying to find a ground. I mean, yeah, obviously that's what I've seen in retrospect, but my imagination was a place to go to that was a solace from the beginning. And whether it was sort of fantasizing about one thing or another, um, or just going into another world in my mind, or sort of having wild dreams that would just take me into different places. Um. That was definitely a, um, an early place of learning or early place of understanding who I was. So intuition as a idea, I don't think came to me, uh, informed. You know, like coming to me like, oh, you can follow your intuition. Uh, you have an intuitive voice inside of you. Uh, until I started making art, I think art really was a way for me to. Follow my impulses. Like, oh, this looks good with this, or I wanna do this next. And um, and I did creative things when I was younger, like crafting and rug hooking and just things that were brought to me through my, especially my, my, well, both grandmas, both. Families

Heather 13:21

bug hooking.

Adriana 13:22

Yeah. Right. Ing I know I used

Heather 13:25

to do it. Yeah.

Adriana 13:26

Crocheting, roses or carnations. And so I did those kind of things. But when I started doing photography and, and doing art when I was in high school, I think that's when I really started tapping into a different sensibility, different intuitive sensibility through creative work.

Heather 13:44

Mm. That's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. And as a highly sensitive person myself, I can relate to a lot of the things that you were saying, especially when you said, change was tough. I still find that for myself today in terms of transitioning, even like the smallest transitions, it's like now I've learned and I know myself better and I know my sensitivities and you know more about intuition and so I can really support myself through transitions more than I used to. But I do remember that, um, as a younger person being really tough, like watching all these other people who were able to just. Move through, or at least it seemed that way, right? We really never know what's going on beneath the surface. Uh, and thinking to myself, oh, why is this so hard for me? Or like, why do I care so much? Or, you know. That was always a question for me as well, and so, so really resonate with the idea of change being difficult and, uh, I think it's very different for, for younger generations. Like, I know my kids are growing up understanding about intuition because I talk about it, you know? Um, I'm sure not every kid grows up this way, but so many more. Than when we were younger, because I also was not taught about being sensitive or taught about Right. Uh, inner wisdom or intuition or anything like that for me. Um, I was in theater, so like you. That was when things really started to like bubble up and like, you know, that, oh well I feel like I want this. And like those feelings came up and, and really intuition I talk about a lot is our senses. It's our feelings. So, um, so that, that is really, really interesting and spot on to my own experience. And there was something that you said, you said imagination was a solace from the beginning. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that? 'cause I feel like people, especially as we get older, we just kind of like poo poo the imagination a little bit unless we're like in a creative space.

Adriana 15:57

Yeah. Because it's so much about responsibility and work and kinda showing up and paying the bills and it's, it's easy to forget about those spaces where we just get to, we just get to dream a bit or we get to just be in a more. Relaxed state where the mind can wander. I mean, I, I also think it's just a different time and sadly, the screens and social media and, you know, being plugged into the phones and that, that reflection or just wander time, that to me was more, I would, I would just go and play around or run around in the woods or, you know, when I was younger it was just like there was all these opportunities to just get off. Get off the grid now, you mean that wasn't even a term back then, but you know, it's just like, go and, and um, and be in the moment, be in the present. And often with that, in those places, like I would fall into books, you know, read books and I would just go into this other world or, um, yeah, I would do, do things out like create forts in nature and explore, just explore the environments with friends or on my own. And, um, yeah, so I think. And one thing that you were just also talking about, about not being taught, um, I, I grew up in a Roman Catholic family, Italian. My dad was Italian, so dad went to church every week. And um, and that, it was interesting because in some ways like. Anywhere. You know, that was maybe a place that I was being taught contemplation, but I didn't connect with it. It really didn't. I didn't connect with it. And I would sit in church and my mind would just wander to imagination. I would just go into another world. I wouldn't necessarily be plugging in to the moment of what was happening. Um, but there was something there that did feel. I could feel a set sense of sacredness. Mm. And so to me, I, I do think imagination and sort of having the mind wander into places that are spiritual or that are intuitive, as you say, um, that there is a lot of peace there if we can access it and give ourselves the chance to, to listen. Like creative listening is something I often talk about, like, how can we. Really listen to our inner selves in a, in a creative way.

Heather 18:28

Hmm. So a listener is out there thinking, well, what does that really mean? Can you dive a little deeper into that? Yeah.

Adriana 18:39

Well, so many people journal, right? I mean, that's a big thing these days, and maybe it has been for a long time, but I feel like there's so many avenues like apps and things you can do to journal. Um, but that in itself is, to me, is creative listening. It's like we're tuning into our inner world. We're listening to our emotions. We're listening to our, you know, thoughts and feelings about things, and our experiences, our memories, and we're writing them down. There's a form of expression. We're finding words to describe our inner experience. Uh, and then in the work that I do, which is called expressive arts therapy, uh, which is multimodal, working with many different mediums, um. We'll find also creative, other creative modalities, right? So you can do a sketch like, what am I listening to? What is my body? What's happening in my body? And how could I describe that in color and shape and texture? Uh, or maybe I could create a dance that, that really, you know, it can be really simple, just like, just with one hand. Or you can put some music on and just find, find the movement that. It allows that inner world to come alive.

Heather 19:57

Hmm. I love that. I'm seeing, in my mind's eye the word allow, right? Allowing ourself the space to sink into, to something so juicy like that. I love intuitive dancing. I love, even for me, intuitive reading, I'll just be drawn to a book and I won't read it in a linear fashion. I'll hold it to my heart space or my womb space. Ask for the most. What is the most potent message for me today? Just flip through till I feel like I wanna stop, you know, and just kind of put my finger down. And there are so many beautiful ways, um, I think for creative listening and, uh, I love that of just like being quiet and tuning inward, which I think is also like going back to what you were talking about with, um, social media and screens and all of that. I think it's become more difficult. To do that these days because everything is so loud, right? This modern world is chaotic, it's loud. It's like consistent content, right? When you and I were growing up, we were not dealing with this extra layer, right? We had time to be bored. And from boredom, I believe, comes creativity because you have to figure out, well, huh, I'm kind of bored. What am I gonna do? I'm not gonna just, you know, I didn't have a phone to pick up, which is, I think even as, um. Adults in our society, this is what happens.

Adriana 21:22

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I mean, this morning I woke up and I like to sometimes write in the morning. I always meditate and I often do some movement or stretch. And um, and I knew I had a, a sharp deadline this morning, so I didn't have as much time. And I said, I'm just gonna go down and look at my phone for just. Five, 10 minutes so I can just see if there was anything that I need to attend to and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, half hour later I had to, I had to go and do five minutes really quick of my meditation. Ended up doing no movement, no writing. And you know, that, I mean, it's just, it's like this bottomless pit. And, and I'm someone who's really conscious. I'm someone that really has very clear intention to not do that and still get drawn in. I mean, it's very addictive. So, um, yeah, so there's so many ways we have to push against it or get support with it, or, you know, find, find some bottom lines for ourselves so that we can take that time.

Heather 22:24

And I know a lot of listeners, including myself, are sitting there going, mm-hmm. Yeah. I've been there. When you're like, I just need five minutes. I'm gonna check one thing. And you go on, and literally it's like a, a complete time warp. Sometimes I'll look up and go, what? I did that for 40 minutes. How is that even possible? I was just sitting there. Do you know? But they are designed right to distract us and Oh yeah. And they do a really good job. And so it is, uh, important for us to have practices and ways and boundaries. To continue doing, um, you know, things like our journaling and meditating and, and whatnot. Um, and you know, you spoke about it being an addiction, which it most definitely is. And I know when I was enjoying looking at all of your beautiful, uh, work online, uh, addiction came up and I would love to, I'm really feeling drawn to that right now, if you would. Just speak a little bit about how you came to connecting art and addiction and, and, and helping people who are, uh, in that place.

Adriana 23:36

Yeah, yeah. Well, when I just started describing some of my younger experiences and finding art and sort of around the same time I feel like I found art, I also found alcohol. And for me, you know, it was, they, they came together in a good way. Like art was like, oh, I get to have this different identity and, and play with it. And also it was, it was opening up my world and then alcohol was a relief. It, it allowed me to be more social. It quieted down the voices and it broaden in this edge that made. Believe on some level I was craving like some rebellion, you know, rebellion against like Catholicism, rebellion against just, I mean, just being in my teens and wanting to, wanting to be my own person. And so alcohol really just became this, just like art, alcohol also became this companion that at first was fun and, and allowed me some freedom, and then turned into a real trap and turned into, um. A real problem over time. And so, uh, a lot of people in recovery circle say, you know, first it's fun, then it's fun with problems, and then it's just problems. And so it really turned into just problems for me and, and also being a really sensitive person. Um, I mean, in some ways I'm so grateful for this because things, things, um, went down really fast, really quick for me so I didn't have to, you know, have a 20 year, um. 20 year cycle of drinking and kind of running myself into, into the wall. It happened over seven years and then I ended up, you know, finding therapy and recovery. And so it really all started with my own journey. And then I wanted to create in a different way. I'm not, you know, the art that I was doing, the art school and, you know. Exhibiting and kind of being an artist in the world and had this edgy San Francisco lifestyle. 'cause I had moved there, um, a year before I got into recovery. Um, like that just wasn't working. It just was, it just felt really toxic. So finding art in a more healing, therapeutic, intimate, I mean, it was very intuitive back to intuition. Like it was really like. I wanna create an image about how I'm feeling today. I wanna create, I did a lot of collage. I wanna do a collage that just, it just gives me a, just this moment of quiet with myself and see what arrives. And so that led into this idea of going back to school for artist therapy and, um, so, so, really. I mean, there's so much to say about how that all evolves. But I went into, um, I did a training and then got a master's in psychology and started doing this intermodal expressive arts, which is, you know, was movement based and visual art and poetry and performance and music and just all these really wild ways of, of, um, being. In my own journey, but also being in community. Um, and then I, I knew that I wanted to focus on recovery. That was my first impulse. It's like, oh, I'm gonna work with others, struggling with addictions. And so that was the beginning of my career, like 25. Plus years ago now. Um, and I still have that as one of my prongs. You know, like a lot of people with recovery issues or who struggled with addiction or eating disorders and um, have, have worked with me. And I, I just i's really deep, deeply rewarding. It's deeply rewarding and, yeah.

Heather 27:28

Hmm, that's beautiful. So, what came up for me when you, when you were talking about like, you know. The idea of the intuition and the creativity and like, oh, I wanna, you know, create a collage or something that like represents how I feel today. Um, and I wonder if you could speak to the listeners out there that do have that, um, desire, but maybe feel a little bit intimidated. Because I feel like in our society, you know, you can feel like, uh. You know, am I really gonna spend time producing something that brings me nothing or I don't make money off of, or doesn't get me further? You know, is that, does that mean that I'm wasting my time? Or you know, where would I even begin with something like that? Is there something that's coming up for you that you could share? Yeah.

Adriana 28:24

Yeah. It's. The first thing that comes to mind, and I know this is different than just doing it on our own steam, but I do feel that going to a class or a group or, you know, there's so many resources out there. Uh, obviously there's things I have offered and continue to offer and there's so many colleagues and there's so, I mean. If you just google, you know, art therapy or just even mindful art or um, art and meditation and et cetera. I mean, there's just tons of resources out there and tons of exercises and tons of groups and, um, so sometimes I find that people need to have a guide to get started and there's nothing as we know, there's nothing wrong with. Um, getting some inspiration or some clarity about first steps. Um, so that's just one thing I wanna put out there. Um, and everybody's creative, just like art is everywhere. Like we're all creative and it just shows up in different ways. And I mean, cooking can be creative, baking can be creative. Gardening can be creative. Um, sometimes even just. Yeah, being an art appreciator is a creative act because you are enjoying and taking in, like having that sensibility to receive the beauty or the, just the intensity of what art offers us. So I think that's also like a mindset shifts sometimes for people to think like. There are so many ways we are being creative in our lives that we don't register as that. Um, and that like anything else, it's a practice. Just like meditation is a practice or a yoga is a practice doing art in a therapeutic or a mindful practice, right? Using that intention, um, just requires some materials, some clear exercises. Back to kind of that play and imagination, like just an intuition, like, oh, okay, what, what color appeals to me? Or, I mean, even coloring books, sometimes people start with that, like there's already a grid and they just fill it in as a way of just to enjoy how something might come alive in color. So, yeah, I mean, I could go on and on. 'cause whether it's with movement, whether it's with writing, you know, with poetry, with, with collage, I mean, there's just so many ways to, to create and to get, just feel deeply rewarded from the experience. Mm.

Heather 31:04

I'm so glad that you shared. Um, all the different ways that we can be creative, that we are all creative. 'cause I think, and, and I am working on this, but I also have a tendency, right, when I hear the word art, to think that it's drawing or painting or sculpting and like, I'm not good at it, so I can't, you know, do it. I remember being in a women's circle, um, locally and. Each time we met, part of the circle was doing art. And I remember feeling very like constricted and kind of like, I'm watching this woman next to me draw this incredible dragon and being like, I'm not really that talented. And I'm looking at her like, what am I gonna put on this piece of paper? You know? Um, and so many times I've had facilitators say to me, this isn't about. Creating, you know, something of perfection that you're gonna like, hang on a wall. This is about like bringing out what's inside of you onto a piece of paper, which I think is so important, um, for people, for the listeners to understand that we are all creative and there are so many different ways that we can create, and I imagine, right, because this is your profession, you're probably telling people often like, this isn't about perfection. This isn't about. You know, creating something like so specific, it's about bringing up what's inside.

Adriana 32:32

Yeah. Yeah. And, and I mean, it's so easy to feel intimidated and also to feel self-critical. I mean, often people, you know, it's like afraid to look foolish, afraid to do, you know, to share something that's gonna, that maybe seems really childish. Sometimes people like draw and they say to me, they say to me, Ugh, you know, I'm not a good drawer. I'm not a good artist. And then, and then they create something out of. This a very deeply personal feeling or emotion or body, body sensation or pain. And it's so alive and there's so much there and there's so much we can work with and examine and, and even develop. So, I mean, I think both are true. So I, I always wanna sort of have the caveat that if you, I mean, I often say to you like. If you really want to be more creative, like learn some techniques, you know, then there's, again, so much you can even find on YouTube. Like learn a few things that might make it feel more satisfying to create a collage or. Get some art materials like oil pastels that are really soft and they really can mush together. And, and then you can start seeing more texture in what you're, you're making, rather than just picking up some markers, which can be often very, uh, they just don't have a lot of nuance. And so I think it's a combination of if you really do want to be more. Creative and feel more satisfied by the product of it. But there's a lot of ways to do that. But on the other hand, it really is about listening. Like it may be something completely abstract. It may be just one green circle that gets drawn on the page, but it has some really strong association for that person. So, um, it's, it's real. It's, it's just, there's so much. Possibility if we allow ourselves to drop the judgment and know that our inner life wants to be expressed, and often that doesn't come in words, it wants to come in other forms.

Heather 34:47

Mm-hmm. Of expression. Of just, of, yeah, just, just

Adriana 34:52

different forms.

Heather 34:53

Yeah, so beautiful. And, and what's coming up for me is like, I resonate with that so deeply and I'm seeing the word grief and I know that that is a lot of, uh, your work as well. And you know, my creativity, typically I gravitate towards playing the piano or singing or moving my body and dancing. Um, you know, I, I do color with my daughter as of late. She's really gotten into it. She's 15 and she's like, I want some coloring books. But like, sometimes at night, it's just such a relaxing. Thing to do, but in terms of the grief, what I wanted to share, and then I would love to hear, uh, from you a little bit about creativity and, and grief, because there's, there are a lot of people grieving, there's, there's so much grief and you know, for me, um, 10 years ago. My mom passed away and it was very sudden in terms of like diagnosis to death was like five weeks. I wa not that you can really prepare right to ever lose somebody, but it was very just out of left field. Um, and I was very close with her, so it was just left this really huge hole in my world. And what I started to notice was I inherited her piano and hadn't really. Played in a long time 'cause I didn't have a piano. I was like, I sat down at this piano and. It actually took me four years to create the entire thing. But I worked on it through those four years and created this incredible song that like every day that I played it, I would cry or, you know, something different would come up for me or different lyrics or like, but it wasn't like I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna write a song and you know, I just melted into that piano and it was like everything inside of me like came through my fingertips. You know, and then like words just kind of started to like come into my, like mind's eye or just like fall out of my mouth. I remember when she first died, I went to Google and I typed in, how do you grieve? And my husband was standing behind me and he was like, put his hands on my shoulders. He's like, oh honey, like you're Googling how to grieve. And I was like, I'm lost. I don't, I don't know what to do. And, you know, I don't even remember what came up. But the music and the piano, and also because it was such a connection point for my mother and I, because we spent so much time at the piano, it was like this incredible way to process. My grief, um, through that creativity. So I would love to hear a little bit, 'cause I know grief is a big part of, of your work and I know your film when the fall comes, it's a story of love, loss and art, which sounds amazing and I can't wait to watch to watch the film, but I would love to hear what you have to say about grief and, and processing and creativity.

Adriana 37:43

I'm so touched by what you're sharing about your loss and how, and, and how this music and the song just came flooding in, and, and that sounds like it was an anchor for you. It was a place to connect with your mom. It was a place to, you know, just allow your emotions to come out in a, in a deep and full way, and that. Grief, uh, really drops us into this liminal space, which that, if people, listeners don't know what that word means, it's really kinda this, this limbo space we could say between life and death or it's just an, an altered space that we can drop into that often comes up in a creative process, in a creative space is we're in this liminal, um, very. Tuned in to ourselves. Tuned in sometimes to the environment, sometimes tuned into others. Um, and grief is just, it's like this continual liminal space because when someone's left, all of a sudden we're torn between these two worlds of, you know, they were here with us in this life, but now they're not here. And so how to still connect with them in some way and. Because it's so hard, like you said. I mean, and I really agree that it's so hard to figure out how to move through it. And art for me was when I went through my own loss, um, which was first, uh, my husband who had lung cancer, then my father died a year later from a very sudden, uh, heart condition. And so just how it's like. Your world turns around who you know, who, who am I now? How do I, how do I navigate day to day? Um, and art, it's like, it kind of pushed me into like, I don't have a choice. I don't have a choice but to feel weird all the time or feel altered in some way all the time because, um, the ordinary just feels unfamiliar. 'cause all of a sudden life feels very, very strange. It can be very foreign. Uh, so. I think art is this great solace, is this great place to go in whatever form. Again, like some people, it's, it can be even like kind of like a walking practice and soaking in nature in, in some way or, um, yeah, listening to music that's very soothing or again. Painting or making music or finding a dance or, I, I did a lot of tango dance. It's interesting when I was going through loss and I had already been dancing tango, but part of it was just when I would drop into this social dance, um, there would be music. I would be with another person. I would be in a space with other people moving. And it wasn't about thinking. Mm-hmm. It wasn't about. Hmm. My loss, it was just about me being moved and, and really, yeah, it just, it felt like an a, a really good escape for me. It was a really good escape where I could just drop everything and, um, being in the present. Hmm. So yeah, there's so much to say about, about it in terms of my own experience, but. I do think that people sometimes open up to the creative process when they're going through grief because everything is kind of drops away. Some of the masks drop away. You realize how precious life is and art is, can meet us right there with, with the full experience of being human.

Heather 41:29

Hmm. Art can meet us right there with the full experience of being human. That is just stunning. Hmm. I love that so much. And when you said it, was it like that when you were doing the tango and dancing, it wasn't about the thinking, like getting all teary-eyed because as humans, right, we can live so much from the neck up, especially when we're going through some kind of trauma or loss or dealing with grief and. Right. People are always like, 'cause they're trying to be kind, but they're always like, how are you, are you okay? How are you doing? How are you doing? And it's like, I remember feeling this feeling of like, I, I don't even know how to answer that question. It's, it's such a broad question. How much time do you have? Right? Like, do you really wanna know all the things about how I'm doing? And yes, when I sat down at the piano. You know, or when I was dancing or stretching, it was like something to be more like movement and in my body and less thinking, which I think is really beautiful in the, in, in those times when you feel so stuck in your head.

Adriana 42:40

Well, and back to the addictive impulse is, is that when there's a lot of pain or struggle or you know, loss that can feel so dismantling. It's easy to want to find an escape that is quick fix. So I, you know, I'm gonna go drink some wine or I'm gonna go and, um, you know, maybe just binge watch TV for three hours or whatever it is. Everyone has their version of, of a, of an escape or numbing and numbing out and that maybe. For, you know, temporarily that might work, but in the long run, you know, obviously that can turn into something really destructive, but we're not really moving through it. So to me it's like finding that nourishment or solace that actually is feeding the soul or that we're really listening to what we need and allowing ourself to, to be expressed in some way and. Art to me always is, has been. And, and I know for obviously so many people I've worked with, um, becomes that that place of true nourishment and as. It like literally moves us through, it moves us through pain, moves us through grief. Um, we can dance through it, we can paint through it. We can write ourselves out of the whole, into a new reality. And um, so that's always a tricky balance. And I think back to the screens too. Like it's so that's another way, right, of course. To, it's like all of a sudden, like down the rabbit hole of social media. Comparison and fear and you know, dropping into all sorts of strange states that we can get into versus really listening to ourselves in the moment.

Heather 44:33

Hmm. Yes. And even listeners, just paying attention to, like, I did this recently, how your body feels after you get stuck in that scroll. You know when you're like, I just need to sit down and relax and look at my phone, like, I'll hear some people say that, and I think to myself like, oh, I wonder, like, let me tune in. Like what does my body feel like I'm typically like, even if it's. Things that I'm like, oh, this is nice and I like this, and you, I still get this kind of like energy, like this. Whereas, you know, recently, uh, neighbors and I decided like we all love to sing and, and play guitar. Like, let's do like last Friday of the month, we're gonna get together and like have a jam session. And the way that my body felt after that, like the aliveness and just like how amazing I felt in comparison to when I'm like sitting. You know, on my phone and scrolling was just this like, you know, of course we know this really, but to pause and actually feel the body

Adriana 45:33

Yeah.

Heather 45:33

Is, is something that I don't think a lot of people do. Uh.

Adriana 45:37

Right. And the escape, I mean, in some ways, right, if often the stopping and like, how do I feel in my body sometimes it's like I'm not in my body. Often it's, it is a disassociation that, that we're doing all the time. I mean, it's natural, like, you know, we're in our bodies, we're not in our bodies. It's part of life. But I'm also, you know, focused a lot on somatic therapy with people because like nervous system regulation, finding ways to safely. Be in our bodies and, and not always be in flight from them. Um, yeah, that, that's a, that's also a skill that I feel is so good to, to learn early on and often very missed. But luckily, just like the intuition, I think people know now so much more about. About embodiment and, and pass that on to others, young or old?

Heather 46:29

Absolutely. And, um, gosh, I can't believe we're like almost coming at time here. I could talk to you for, for many, many hours here about all of these amazing things. But a while back, I want, I would love to circle back to community because we are talking about community. This season on the podcast and how important it is, you know, post pandemic and with everything that is so divisive going on in the country and around the world. Community is important. And so I would love for you to speak just a little bit about, um, you know, what you have learned about community because you had shared in the beginning when I asked, you know, for someone who may not know how to get started, you said it's okay to have a guide or to work within a group, or, I love group healing. It is one of my most favorite things. I love sitting in circles and, and doing art with people or doing meditation with people. And so, uh. Could you speak just a little bit about, uh, community and how it has affected your journey?

Adriana 47:32

Yeah. Well, as a person in recovery, that's, I think first how I've learned about community in group settings, in recovery, group settings, because. People were being real, they were being honest. They were talking about their feelings. They were there for a common goal. And I had been in community in different ways, like in college and art community. I mean, I'd been, and, but it was often a lot of posturing. It was often a lot of maybe just joking around and, and I mean, I have, I mean, I'm lucky. I, I definitely feel like I've always been able to have people in my life that I've. Felt close to, but the community aspect was just a really different focus. So when I started learning about, oh wow, being in community in a way that is really about connection, what just changed the game for me because I could be more vulnerable, I felt like. People are thinking and experiencing life like I do, and I'm not alone in this fear place or this anxiety or, you know, so it was really, um, it was such a relief. And that has been consistent for me. I mean, even moving to Charlottesville, like I knew, I was like, I have to find recovery community. Like that's the foundation because for me, like. Staying away from a drink one day at a time, you know, maintaining a, a certain equilibrium in myself. Recovery community has always helped me with that. So, um, so that, anyways, just to say that, 'cause that's really such a important and foundational piece for me. And, and so that helped me learn like, oh, now I can do this in creative community, like when I went to my training program, it was all very similar, like we're connecting, um, about. You know, art and, and wellness and, you know, movement from a very mindful place and a healing place. And so we were learning about this and everyone was being very vulnerable and real and talking about their own stories and traumas and, and um, whenever, you know, I can share space with others where it is just, again, the masks get dropped. Life is so much richer, and I love guiding people in those spaces too. I mean, I've just been so lucky to be able to facilitate people going through creative and and healing experiences and just witness what changes and then how the ripple effects of that.

Heather 50:11

Hmm.

Adriana 50:11

Memorable effects of that. Yeah.

Heather 50:13

Hmm. So beautiful. So beautiful. So before we leave, I would love for you to just share a little bit about maybe how you work within the community of Charlottesville or, uh, we have a lot of listeners that are not in the local area, so also how you, um, work with community and art therapy online. Um, we'll have. Everything for you to connect with Adriana in the show notes, but I would love to just hear from you what you you'd like to share. Yeah,

Adriana 50:46

yeah. Well, I mean, I think since COVID, COVID just changed so many things for us, I mean, there's just so many layers of that, but, um. I had, everything was really geared in person in San Francisco for me. And, uh, you know, I was teaching at studios. I was, I had an in person, I had a wellness center and, and an office that I had had for 14 years. And, and when COVID shifted things, I mean, I already had already had done some remote work. I had, I've been working internationally for a long time, for a variety of reasons, but it really just shifted things and my. And I just, everything became fully remote. And so that, that has partly shifted, also kind of translated to me moving here. I was like, oh, I can move. Everything can be remote. So I often am doing groups online or you know, one-off master classes for people. And in the work of expressive arts and creative coaching, do a lot of creative coaching these days too. Um. I'm also starting something called Lab Time, which is happens about a couple times a month, which is bringing people together to make art for an hour and a half. So we just come together, we make art together and whatever medium or. Whatever practice. So that is happening. One of them is happening this, um, Friday, just coming up this Friday and, you know, a few times in November, December. So that's something that people can definitely reach out to me and learn more about. Um, I'm gonna offer, I do in person here. I see people one-on-one in person. Near downtown Charlottesville, I see a lot of people remote. And I'm also gonna offer a group, uh, like a four-part series here in downtown, uh, like kind of, uh, near downtown. And, um. I think February and March is what I'm looking at. So really around like these different elements of creative listening and creative vitality and creative healing and allowing people to drop into a space where they get to gather together, they get to explore their own inner life, but also feel the support of being witnessed by others. So lots of, I'm always just, I always got my hands on lots of things.

Heather 53:01

Love it. Love it. Well, I'm definitely gonna check out some of your live and in person stuff since I live fairly, fairly close to you. And I love everything that you shared about community and what you are doing. Thank you for your service within, uh, you know, the local community and the online community because these spaces, these. I like to call them sacred spaces where we can gather and just like you said, be vulnerable and drop the masks. It's this feeling of not being alone, which I think so many people need to know. Right? It's like having that sense of belonging and being able to be who you truly are and share you know what's going on. So it's not always that surface, like, how are you fine. You know, we can, we can go beyond that, which I think is so beautiful and so important, and I just thank you so much for your time today. It was so wonderful to get to know you a little better and to hear more about what you're doing in the community and. Before we leave, I would love to invite you to share with us if you wanna just take a moment, if you wanna close your eyes or breathe or whatever it is. Any message that might be coming from your heart to our listeners today?

Adriana 54:18

Hmm. One thing that just pops up is. What we're doing is not, it's, I'm just trying to think of how to describe this in a way that is really clear, but I think that sometimes art therapy or energy healing or, you know, even, um, even therapy period, right? Some of these things can feel like. This work is tried and true and also, um. It's not woo woo. Like it's not woo. You know, I think that there's, there's times when I even get caught in that mindset of, oh, this is too spiritual, or this is too that, or it's too, you know, but it is this work of the soul is, this is what changes us from inside out. It's what, you know, this is the work that, that it can, it can again have these, like, it can have these, these ripple effects that, that shift the way that. Others also can experience life. You know, I've gone into treatment centers, I've gone into eating disorder clinics. I've, I've brought work to so many different settings and to see that when people learn some simple tools, all of a sudden, like they can start. Finding a different way towards their healing, their healing towards their wellness. Um, so I just wanna say that, and, and also this idea of, I, I love this idea of like creative gratitude that, um, art also provides us as a, like an anchor point for feeling joy in our lives. Um, and for really appreciating what is most precious. So.

Heather 56:17

Hmm. Beautiful. Thank you so much. I actually just signed up for your 10 day, um, what is it called? Art Gratitude.

Adriana 56:26

Yeah. It's a 10 day gratitude practice that I put together. Yes, yes. And that, yeah, that's something that I came up with recently and. And it's just, it's been really fun to watch people engage in that. So yeah, that's available.

Heather 56:39

Yeah, I'm excited for it. I'm excited for it. Well, we are gonna have all the ways to connect with Adriana in our show notes. Thank you, listeners, for being here with us today. We know that your time is valuable, so thank you for sharing it with us and Adriana, it has been such an honor and a pleasure to be here with you today. Thank you so much.

Adriana 56:58

Thank you, Heather. It's just, yeah, it is. It's really been great to connect and I, I love the way that you dive deep and also just bring such practical tools to people, so I'm very inspired.

Heather 57:10

Aw, thank you. Thank you, thank you. All right, my lovely listeners, until we meet again, sending you so much healing love.

Speaker 57:18

It was so wonderful to be here with you today. I know you're busy and that your time is precious, so thank you. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. If today's conversation resonated, it would really mean the world. If you'd take just a moment to rate and subscribe wherever you love to listen to podcasts, and if you feel called leaving a review or sharing this episode with someone who might need, it really helps the work. Reach the hearts it's meant for. You'll find all the links to connect to today's guest in the show notes below. Until next time, may you remember to quiet the chaos tune inward and hear her. She speaks your deepest truth.