Ep. 85— Play, Presence & The Power of The Container — with Sara (Sigh) Goldsmith

Welcome back to the HEAR HER podcast!

In this playful and deeply grounding conversation, Heather sits with Sara (Sigh) Goldsmith—mindfulness guide, circling facilitator, and creator of The Container Podcast—to explore what it really means to be held.

Together, they dive into the idea of “the container”—the intentional spaces that allow us to feel safe enough to show up fully, be witnessed, and explore who we are without performance or pressure. Sara brings a refreshing blend of curiosity, honesty, and play, reminding us that growth doesn’t have to be rigid or heavy.

This conversation is an invitation to soften, to experiment, and to let yourself be met exactly where you are.

We Explore:
What “the container” means in healing, relationships, and personal growth
How structure and boundaries can actually create safety and freedom
The role of play, curiosity, and experimentation in transformation
Letting go of performance and the need to “get it right”
Being witnessed—and learning to witness yourself
Creating spaces where your full humanity is welcome

We Mention:

The Container Podcast Episodes with:

Carolyn Elliot/Lovewell https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/existential-kink-the-best-form-of-shadow-work/id1714481300?i=1000666596520
Susan Campbell: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/facing-the-fear-of-death-with-susan-campbell/id1714481300?i=1000701528017

Connect with Today’s Guest
Website: https://sighgodsmith.com
Podcast: https://thecontainerpod.com
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thecontainerpod?si=qW8MRQkdieWGhP4z

Work with Heather

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Thank You for Listening
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Until next time, may you remember to quiet the chaos, tune inward, and HEAR HER. ✨

Transcript

Speaker 0:06

Hello, lovely listeners and welcome back to another episode of the Hear Her podcast. It is so wonderful to be here with you if you're new around here. Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm Heather, founding mother of Divinely Sensitive, an energy doula and spiritual guide. Us Walking Women Home to themselves and at the heart of my work is the Hear her sister. An online space to come home to yourself again and again and again. It's a place to explore your intuition at your own pace, rooted in the sacred feminine, the seasons, and the natural world. Inside, you'll find monthly guided journeys. Meditations, Oracle Readings, live gatherings. Simple yet potent practices and so much more. All alongside a loving community of like-hearted women, learning to trust themselves in these uncertain times. So if you're feeling the pull for connection or support, there's a link in the show notes to join our online community. And if you're local to the Charlottesville area or passing through, come see me at Overs, soul Healing Center. It's such a cozy spot. I offer Reiki, private sound, bath, and intuitive energy medicine sessions. I would love to meet you where you are.

Speaker 2 1:43

Today's guest brings a deep reference for presence and the in-between spaces of life. Our conversation really invited us to slow down, listen more closely, and notice what emerges when we meet one another with care. Cy is a mindfulness guide, circling, facilitator and companion at the thresholds of life. Through her hospice work, teaching and the Container podcast, she creates spaces where presence, intuition, and authentic connection unfold. Her work weaves, embodiment, subtle awareness and deep listening, inviting others into resonance with themselves and the living field of connection. Mm. So beautiful and so needed in our world right now. You are in for a treat. I am so excited to share this conversation with you. Okay, my loves. Here we go.

Heather 2:45

Sarah, thank you so much for joining me here today on the Hear Her Podcast. It's lovely to be here with you.

Sara 2:54

Yeah, thank you for inviting me. This is wonderful and exciting.

Heather 2:59

Yes. I am so excited for our conversation and as we do on the Hear Her Podcast in this loud, crazy, modern world. Let us ground in together. Let's just take a moment for myself, for Sarah, for our lovely listeners to take a moment if you're able to, and it feels safe for you to close your eyes. I invite you to do so. To just feel the energy in your feet in this moment, and just notice where your breath is. No shame, no judgment, just bringing in awareness, and as you feel your feet. Inviting you to connect to the energy underneath you, to the ground, to the earth. We're recording this episode on Earth Day, so connecting to the mother, the energy of the Earth Mother before we begin feels quite right. Inviting you to breathe in that beautiful energy of the mother of the earth, mother through your feet, up through your body, and on the exhale releasing anything that was before you landed here with us. Anything that you're anxious about that will be after you leave us. So we'll take three nice deep cleansing breaths, springing in that earth energy and releasing anything that is blocking us from being here in this present moment together. Breathe. Inviting you before this next breath to place your hands over your heart space. If that feels good for you, breathe. One last breath together. Breathe beautiful and inviting you all to show gratitude to yourself for being here now. For showing up to this beautiful conversation and when you feel complete, I invite you to open your eyes and land here with us in the present moment. Thank you for being here with us. We're so grateful. Sarah, thanks for being here. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you, and if you've been listening for a long time, lovely listeners, you know, we start each guest episode the same, and it's incredible to hear all of the different responses to this one. Simple question, which is, Sarah, how do you spread your magic? How do you share your magic in this world?

Sara (2) 6:52

Thank you for that question. I would say, this is actually a question I have been, pondering myself. Um, like, you know, kind of how, can you kind of backtrack or, um, look at how can I look at what I do and, and, you know, kind of reverse engineer. Like what is it that is the magic? Um, I guess the, like a simple answer is that, um, it's, it's in actually like. The non-doing this of, of being, um, in community or, and with others. It's like over time I've, I've discovered this unfolding of, uh, or like, kind of unlayering of access to my authentic expression. And it's, so it's, it's like, but that is actually doing less, right? It's like doing, um. Non-doing to, you know, quote lazu or it's like, um, what is, what is coming in and, and how is it able to express itself? And, and what do I need to remove to like, allow that process to happen? And then can I do that when I'm in a room of people or when I'm with someone who's, you know, having a really intense experience. So the magic is, is in like this, this, uh, constant sort of yoga of, of, uh, allowing or something.

Sara 8:40

Hmm.

Sara (2) 8:41

That's, and I really feel in this moment, very grateful for the opportunity to answer that question because that is. That answer has been unfolding too, which is funny.

Heather 8:54

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that question, the answer to that question will be unfolding for as long as we have the gift of life. Right? It's such this spiral journey that we're on, coming back around again and again looking at life through a different lens. Each time we learn something new. And I love that you're talking about doing less. And being as opposed to doing, and you said, can I do that when I'm in a group of people? And I would love to explore that with you. It felt very much to me like, This just really compassionate hug when you said that of like, it's it's holding space, right? And so if, if you would talk a little bit more about. That and how you do that within in the community. That would be lovely.

Sara (2) 9:50

Yeah. It's, um, yeah. It's funny because the, the phrase holding space is again, like this action, it's an action, like I'm holding space, but it's, it's. It's in this surrender actually to, to the group or to the community, or, you know, to the, the room. And I'm particularly referencing the practice that I'll, I often hold space for, um, circling and authentic relating. Um, and where I am now in, in, in that practice is, is. Being, um, with everyone and being in, in a deeper surrender at every moment, like to, to the extent that that's possible. And then in through that, that is the, the space is being held, um, because it's, it's like through example, maybe not, not going in with that intention, but that is like the, the, um, like if you were to again, reverse engineer and look back and go, oh. The space holding is actually the, you know, the, the surrender that is available. And that's only available to me through this constant prac or, you know, frequent practice of, um, finding my presence in, you know, within me. Within you and like what is that space between. And, um, I

Sara 11:32

think,

Heather 11:34

yeah. Hmm. Could you share with the listeners who may not understand the term circling or authentic relating,

Sara (2) 11:44

or share

Heather 11:45

a little bit about that? Yeah.

Sara (2) 11:48

Yeah. It's funny. I, um, that is, that is a really great question to ask. It is. Um, you know, I started a whole, my partner and I started a whole podcast on the subject because it is such a. You know, having the 62nd elevator pitch of what is circling is, um, you know, there's an infinite number of responses to that question, and that's what we've learned through, through this exploration in, in our, in our content. So right now, the way I would, uh, describe circling is that it is a practice, um, where we, uh. Meet each other in the present moment and see what it's like to be there. It is a combination of three things, maybe like with a kind of a Venn overlap, like Venn diagram overlap of, uh, mindfulness presence and relating. And so all of those are very, you know, presence and mindfulness are very similar, but. They have, you know, their own sort of distinctions and then relating, so, so, whereas you could sit and meditate on a cushion and your, your object of the meditation perhaps would be on the breath. The object of meditation in, uh, circling practice is the re is the relational space.

Sara 13:18

Mm-hmm.

Sara (2) 13:18

So the attention is constant, is always coming back to. What is here, what is here in me, what is here in you, and what is in between? Like how in that blending and trying to look at that and describe it and tease it out. Um, and of course, you know, getting thrown in and out of, of, of that, of that contemplation, of that yoga, of uh, that returning, um, because with other people and in relationship. There's, you know, there are things that pull us out of, of that, that we space of that and back into ourselves and back into our patterns or our stories or hurts or our pain. Um, and then there are things that bring us closer into that, that space of connection and blending. And so we, we take time and we slow down and we really try to examine it like, uh. For hours at a time. And, uh, and you can do circling in a group of two or in a group of 20 or a group of a hundred, um, and you can even do it yourself. It's, you know, it kinda gets the goods more with other people.

Sara 14:42

Mm-hmm.

Sara (2) 14:42

Um, the practice, the authentic relating is, uh, more of a series of activities and games that are more facilitated. Um. To practice skills of relating. So, you know, authentic relating certainly happens in circling. Um, but it's, it's a little more kind of, uh, workshop feel. You know, there's, there, there are dedicated activities that practice certain aspects of the relational, uh, dance that we do.

Sara 15:16

Mm-hmm.

Sara (2) 15:17

Um, and so they, they kind of overlap and blend, but. One is a more dedicated practice. The other is a, again, like a, a compilation of games and activities that sort of get at these different relational skills that, that we can break, bring back into, you know, into our family life and our work life and our day-to-day, day, uh, interactions with other people.

Heather 15:47

That's. What's coming up for me now is, is there, uh, an activity, a practice that you use, uh, in the work that you do, that you could share here that would be something simple for listeners to take home to themselves, to them, to their family, to their friends?

Sara (2) 16:08

Yeah, for sure. There's so many. Um, I would say that sort of the, the most simple. The, you know, you can do this today. We could do it right now. Yes. Would be, um, noticing the notice, the, uh, a noticing activity where, um, we could set a timer for say three minutes and, um, we'll just go back and forth and use the sentence stem. Being here with you. I notice and hearing that I notice, and the goal here is to be paying exquisite attention to, you know, to the other person in this, in our dyad, you and I, Heather. Yes. Um, and to really try to feel what the other person is saying and, and. Mm. Where, what are you noticing? It, it could be sensation, it could be an emotion or a feeling state that arises. It could be a thought, uh, that comes up or it could be a desire. Mm-hmm. Um, so, and then trying to just put some words to what it is that, that you notice.

Sara 17:34

Hmm.

Sara (2) 17:36

And we've, I've found that the longer you do this, if you, you could even do this for 20 minutes with a person, and it gets really far out, it gets very blendy and like, uh. You go into an altered state, like pretty quickly with, with something like this.

Sara 17:56

Hmm.

Heather 17:57

Um,

Sara (2) 17:58

so yeah, the noticing.

Heather 17:59

The noticing game. Love that. I love that. I would imagine doing this work and facilitating this work that I. I'm just making an assumption here. You and your partner do together or is it just the podcast that you do together?

Sara (2) 18:12

Yeah, we, we do everything together. Do it all

Heather 18:14

together. I love it. That's so great. And so I would love to go back for a moment and, you know, hear her, the podcast for me is so much about quieting the chaos of the world and coming home to our center. I say home to her or, or you know, hear her. That's just my terminology, but really it's inner wisdom, intuition, inner knowing. And so I would love to hear a little bit about. Your past. What's led you to this work And was intuition, was inner wisdom, was getting quiet and, and paying, you know, closer attention to yourself, part of your world, always like something in your youth or was there some spiritual awakening that brought you to this point? Hmm.

Sara (2) 19:04

Yes to all of the things you said. So what brought me to this work was, um, was a dark night of the soul. Like a really, you know, there it was, there was like a lot of people, there was for me, a lot of, turning inward and, feeling very isolated through COVID. Mm. Um, and then emerging out of that and like not knowing what. I wanted, or who I was or, and going through a breakup and, you know, and we find, I've noticed over time, like people who find their ways to these practices often have, you know, there's, there's some kind of maybe a, a big life upset, uh, you know, losing a loved one or some sort, or a breakup or, you know, maybe, uh, empty nest or, you know, some sort of big. These like little pivot po or big pivot points that occur in a lifetime?

Sara 20:00

Hmm.

Sara (2) 20:00

Um, I'd say my whole life I've been a seeker. I've been interested in, uh, in the present moment and, uh, you know, in practices like meditation and yoga and, spiritual type things. Uh, but this discovering the practice of circling and my, and authentic relating really it, you know, it changed everything. It was the catalyst for a spiritual awakening. But I got there through this, this pain that I was going through at the time. And, I discovered really quickly that, you know, there, like I have sat on a cushion and meditated and gotten the goods, you know, gotten like some more peace of mind. Felt a little more slow, slow in my like, way of walking through the world, like felt a little more grounded. Um, but. I practiced circling for the first time, and I realized I was like, this is, this is, it's revolutionary. Like the insights I had about myself and about how I show up in the world. It was, they were just so quick and so many in the early days. Uh, and then this unfolding over time. It, it doesn't stop. It's like it just gets richer and richer and deeper and, yeah. Um, but. A little more about my personal history there. I've, I am a recovering alcoholic. I went through a big Saturn return in my early thirties. Um, I lost my mother to the disease of alcoholism and, uh, you know, and got, got sober through Alcoholics Anonymous, and that was a really big, a really big kind of turning point.

Sara 21:51

Mm-hmm.

Sara (2) 21:53

And then having children, of course I have two children, that those are like the reason that I keep, you know, like bringing this stuff back to, to my home, into my family. It's like it's, I'm now like living the life of my dreams with my children that I never thought I could do before. Um.

Sara 22:23

Hmm.

Sara (2) 22:24

I've always been a, like, for 20 years I've been mothering in some way, parenting in some way. Um, and it's always been, uh, so deeply challenging, like not something that came naturally or easy or in that I even necessarily enjoyed, like, it, it felt frustrating and hard and now, and I've just, but yet. It's like mally. The thing that I'm here to do is to be a mother. And so yeah, this, these practices have allowed me to be, to be actually like loving that experience and yeah.

Heather 23:07

How old are your children?

Sara (2) 23:09

Five and 14. Okay. Yeah. And I have a 23-year-old stepson as well.

Heather 23:17

Amazing. Amazing. And so you shared a little bit, um, are you sharing these practices that are feeling so good to you or how does that. How does that go? How does that weave into your family? How does that weave into your kids' lives?

Sara 23:35

Oh my gosh,

Heather 23:37

yes. They,

Sara (2) 23:38

um,

Heather 23:39

how lucky these kids are. I mean,

Sara 23:41

that's amazing.

Sara (2) 23:43

We they love it. They are, yeah. They're, they're influenced in every way by it. Um, the 5-year-old. Is often using nonviolent communication strategies like Marshall Rosenberg, um, he, he will say things like, mom, I have a story. You are upset. Is that true? So he'll learn, you know, like we don't make automatic assumptions about how other people are feeling. Um, he will never say, you made me mad. He only says like, I had an impact. I was impacted by the way that you were talking to me. Hmm. This, this idea of like just deeply owning our own experiences is our, like a, is a value that we've infused in, in the household. And it makes for some really funny conversations too. I mean, it's like, you know, it turns into kind of humor at times. Um, sure.

Heather 24:48

A 5-year-old saying that, right?

Sara (2) 24:50

Like I had a really big impact when you yelled at me, mommy. And then for the teen, uh, lately we've been working with these, spiritual axioms for the teen. So she is, uh, you know, um, learning these, these simple axioms. She's also really deeply into tarot. Um, and lucid dreaming and, um, witchcraft like that is, those are things that she goes to, um, to, to understand herself and to understand her, her relationships. The other day, um, she was like wanting to get home to clean. She set up this altar in her room. It's this beautiful altar that she does spells and, um. She's like, I need to get home and clean my altar. And I was like, well, why is it, why is it dirty? And she's like, it's not that it's dirty, it's just that I feel morally wrong if it is not ex very tidy at all times. And I was like, wow, that's, I said, you've become very religious, just kind of jokingly. And she said, well, it gets the goods. She said it works. It gets the good.

Heather 26:03

That's amazing. Oh, I love that. She has an altar in her room. That's awesome.

Sara (2) 26:08

Yeah, so she's feeling really low on her, on her, maybe her cell, you know, her physical appearance or, um, you know she'll do these, these spells and all of a sudden she has all this like renewed self-esteem and self-confidence and. To her. She's like, I even look different when I see myself in the mirror after I do these like intentional practices. And so yeah, it's, it's really wonderful. She, she hasn't circled with us yet. She, she's still in that teen, like that's stuff's weird. She is influenced, you know, we have people here. A like one night a week, or a couple times at least a couple times a month. So there, you know, it's, it's around, it's in the air, in the field.

Heather 26:54

That's so beautiful. And how awesome for your children to be in a space where they're learning this just by you modeling and being held in what is true for them? Right, right. You're not judging her or shaming her for having to go home and clean her altar. It's like you're holding the space and just, you know, inquiring why, which I think is so beautiful. Uh, and do your kids like, do you talk about intuition? Is that something that's part of the family life? Do they understand inner wisdom and intuition?

Sara (2) 27:37

That's a

Heather 27:37

really good

Sara (2) 27:38

question. I, I don't think so. I mean, it's not that they, maybe they intuitively understand it. Intuition has been on my mind, that is a contemplation that has been very alive for me. Trying to get in touch with, or, you know, effort, like efforting toward, or, or putting my attention on, uh, on intuition. Um, so it's certainly something that we talk about. I, I like maybe in passing, but it isn't like an intentional value that, I think we, we talk to the children about, I think more than anything it's how, how are we caring for the field that we're creating in the home? Like in what, what things are maybe taking away from building, uh, more connection or more wonderfulness in the field versus, yeah. Um. Yeah, I think that that is the, the current priority or something is

Heather 28:44

Mm,

Sara (2) 28:45

that's maintenance of the field.

Heather 28:48

Yeah. Which is so important. I have teenagers, I have two teenagers and maintenance of the field, you know, energetically. Right. We all bring so much. Right. Come from a household of, of almost all highly sensitive, empathic, both my kids and myself. So there's a lot of energy there. And that's so beautiful to hear that that's something that's really prominent in your family's life of, of like what is going on within the field here.

Sara 29:15

Yeah.

Heather 29:16

I love that. That's so beautiful. Could you share with the listeners a little bit more about. Community and how you feel community helps us, with relating to ourselves with, uh, trusting ourselves with maybe not feeling so alone. And how you and your partner support c community, whether it be, um, in person or online.

Sara (2) 29:44

It's such a process. The what came to mind, the word that kept coming to mind when I was considering community. Earlier this morning was, uh, the word was gathering. Gathering, but, um, I was thinking of like gathering, uh, like flowers or, or like gathering sticks from the yard. And the way that, um, like as you gather, like things will fall and, you know, you won't be able to hold every, like the more you're gathering the like. You're losing track of some of the things like it, that was the kind of image that was coming to mind and the way that, um, a community of, of practice, a community of practice versus, say, a community like of like-minded people or of, um, a community of practice sort of unfolds over time. There's, you know, there, it's like you're gaining people. That are wanting to, to really do the work and really keep coming back and do the practice. And then some of them things will happen and they'll, they won't be there anymore. And then these new people arrive and, and just over the course of years, it's very, it's just like such a beautiful dance to watch of like, um. You know, the, there's like this, these core groups that form and they're like really intensively always there and like really, really in the practice. And then again, like something will kind of mix up or there's a contraction or maybe there's, maybe there's a, a rupture, you know, and then things rebuild again. It's, it's like a river. It's like a moving, an organism that's changing and reforming and, figuring itself out again. And and then there's these deeper, at least in, in my experience and my partner Jonathan, and i's experience, uh, these deeper relationships that form that become these like really beautiful like. Family friendships, you know, like really like core. Um, and I just feel so grateful. That's, that's something that has come of, of these events and these, uh, groups that we've hosted over the last couple of years are, you know, having these incredibly close friendships. And then these other, these larger, you know, than a larger form of that group that are the people who come and go sometimes. And, uh, and we, you know, we, we host very consistently in Charlottesville, in person, um, and have been exploring more, uh, with online more recently. That's a whole nother type of community. It's a whole different animal. Because there's more of that coming and going. There's like more of that in, in an online community it seems like. Um, and both have, you know, have their benefits and they're, and there are ways that they don't serve as well. You know, there's, there's logistical challenges of like having space to meet in that's consistent and not too expensive and, and being consistent with dates and times. And, um, and then this energy exchange of like, what, you know, how much does it make sense to charge or not charge? How much time are we, you know, dedicating to this process? And. For us, the podcast is, is a really great, um, a really great way to engage a larger community and, um, and really get like at least an exchange of like, we are actually learning so much from this, we're getting so much back. Um, yeah, so.

Heather 33:51

Hmm. Yeah. I, you and your partner have an awesome podcast, uh, where you explore so many cool things. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that? And Yes. Like the listeners, right? Being the community and all learning together is such a beautiful thing. Do you wanna talk about the podcast a little bit?

Sara (2) 34:13

Sure. Yeah. Our, our podcast is primarily interview, uh, a format of interviews with, with. You know, guests that we bring on, um, it's called The Container. And we, when we first started the podcast, it was with the desire to, create something that we wished we had as we were learning the practice of circling and authentic relating, which was more content, like content to learn about that, practice those practices, and, um, to hear from people who were like the leading, you know, uh. Leading minds on the subject. Um, so facilitators and authors and um, uh, just, uh, you know, people who had been practicing for a really long time, the masters, so to speak. Um, and so that was what, you know, what had us create the podcast and then through doing it, through bringing these amazing guests on, um, we've. We've had this incredible like, gift of gaining access to things like, uh, a four month long facilitation training course that we got to, to partic to be, to do, um, through the authentic Revolution, um, website and school. And then we met the founders of circling Europe who are uh. The, the most, they've, they developed a surrendered leadership style of circling, which is what we practice here in Charlottesville. Um, and we were invited to Europe, to their, to their festival. So we got to travel to Europe and have this incredible experience with them. Um, and then slowly it's more la like lately it's been shifting into, um. Now we've, you know, we've, we've been exploring this, this smaller niche of what is circling this inner, uh, very small. There's not, aren't, aren't a ton of practitioners in the world. Um, and now we're trying to turn the other direction and go, okay, like, how can we spread, I, you know, the word of circling to a wider audience, but also what other things, um, are we called to explore that. That, you know, through our spiritual development and our path, like have, where is that leading us now? Um, more into like the personal development spaces and spiritual growth and, um, in those areas. And so that is, we're in this like pivot point right now where, um. Rather than just interviewing people from circling, authenticating, uh, we're trying to find guests that are like from a broader place and then apply circling consciousness as we call it, like, to the conversations we have with those people. So, you know, uh, have these deeper, more, um, authentic present. Mindful conversations with, with people so that they can share it with their audience. Hmm. Um, and yeah, so it's, it's been such a beautiful journey and, uh, such a learning experience and a lot of fun. Yeah,

Heather 37:46

it's beautiful. And I, I feel. For me anyway, and, and what I've seen in the world. It takes practice to be in deep presence and to be able to be relating to someone else in that way. And I wonder, has that always come naturally to you or is this something that over time you've practiced?

Sara (2) 38:13

Yeah, this is the gift. Of the practice of circling is, yeah. Um, being able to, uh, to, you know, outside of the, the practice arena to be in, in connection, in conversation with someone else and, and be, you know, in, in my present moment in, uh. And, you know, awareness of what it might be like for you to be receiving me right now. Um, that returning, you know, to, to, of attention to what it is to be in, in this connection right here, right now. It's, it's like doing, uh. Vinyasa and yoga, you know, you do it, you do it, you, you do it over and over and over. And so it's, it is, it just becomes part of, part of you, you know? Um, so yeah, I've, I've practiced and I practiced. Yeah,

Heather 39:24

yeah, yeah. I am

Sara (2) 39:26

practicing.

Heather 39:27

Yes, exactly. We're always practicing. I'm being led to the heart space, but before that. Uh, I, I'm curious, do you have a specific guest mm-hmm. Or a couple of guests that have just been your most favorite people.

Sara (2) 39:45

Yeah. Yeah. I think a really big one is, uh, this woman, Carolyn Elliot, who, uh, Carolyn Elliot, also known as Carolyn Lovewell, wrote a book called Existential Kink, um, which is, uh. A really great book to read. It's a, it's, it is about shadow work and about, I guess like a really, one short learning that I use all the time still from that book is, uh, having, is evidence of wanting the idea of like. If something is happening in your life, there's some part of you, whether you're conscious of it or not, that actually wants that thing to be happening, even if it is not, if you would claim that indeed you do not want to. Um, and so it's about doing, uh, shadow work to, to unlock, uh, the, the. Power in the, the life force that is actually like trying to give you a hint, like the using the things that you think you hate as, as like the material for, for exploring the exploring into the depths. And so the conversation with Carolyn is amazing. Um, and, and then another is Susan Campbell. Susan Campbell is. What we call the, uh, like the godmother of all things authentic relating. She wrote, she's 82 years old and she wrote a book called Getting Real, um, that all authentic relating practices were originally based off of. Um, she is an all, you know, og the original, the original of, um, of these things. And we've had two conversations with her. Um. One more recently was actually on the subject of the developmental stages of dying.

Sara 41:56

So she's

Sara (2) 41:57

exploring her own death and what that will be like, and how to relate to it in, uh, in a way that, you know, um, serves her. And that was just such a meaningful and beautiful conversation to have with this just. Incredible human being. And then to watch it and to, to, you know, to think, wow, this, you know, she won't be with us for forever. And, and now we have this, this conversation with her that was just went into these Yeah. Really deep places.

Heather 42:37

Mm. That's so beautiful.

Sara (2) 42:39

Yeah. So the inter developmental, uh. Aspect of, of these conversations as well, like what that did for my own exploration of death and, and for Jonathan's as well. And, uh, yeah, just, it's just such a gift to have to get to. To do that.

Heather 43:06

Hmm. Yeah. I love that you shared, is it Carolyn Lowell or Lovell? How, how Love Lovell Uhhuh. So I've listened to a couple of episodes and one of them was, what is a mystery school? I. Ah,

Sara (2) 43:21

yes.

Heather 43:22

Yeah. So I wanna go back now and listen to the, the episode about existential kink, because talk about it in that episode. So I love that that's what came up for you. That's amazing. That's that's great. Yeah.

Sara (2) 43:35

Yeah. The mystery school one was really, she just is an encyclopedia of, of knowledge, uh, of the history of, um, occultism and, yeah. Yeah,

Heather 43:47

it was a great episode. It was a great episode. I look forward to listening to these other ones as well. So beautiful. So what was coming up for me before that is if you would just tune in for a moment to your heart space.

Sara 44:02

Mm-hmm.

Heather 44:04

And share whatever is there for the listeners in this time of uncertainty. And. Fear and constant bombardment of change. And a lot of people are feeling very ungrounded now. And so I invite you to go to your heart space and, and share whatever is there for the listeners. I,

Sara (2) 44:30

I noticing that, um. I feel so connected in this moment with you and with with your listeners. I started off in the beginning and, you know, at the beginning of our conversation feeling unsettled and like, not kind of sure what would happen or what it would be like, and then sinking in and, and like really, really being. Having my attention on you and, and, and feeling that you're, you are deeply holding me in, in, in connection, um, has resulted in me feeling like almost like I'm kind of light in my chair. I feel, uh, I feel like a sense of love and a sense of peace, and. I think that is, uh, like that is the, that's the thing. It's like the, this is, this is the way, um, I was feeling uncertain and now I feel fine. You know, I don't need whatever answers I thought I needed at the beginning of this conversation. Um, because the connection is serving me and serving and, you know. Serving a, a group of people. And, and so, yeah, I wonder, I wonder what, um, making space for that type of, of interaction would do for everyone That, that may be having a feeling of not being grounded or feeling uncertain and, and, you know, in these difficult, difficult times that we are in right now.

Heather 46:17

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. I like the, the word that really just kind of hit right here for me, that you said was connection.

Sara 46:27

Mm-hmm.

Heather 46:28

I think we can be so disconnected in this. It's so easy, right? It's so easy to be disconnected. There's our phones and news and if you have kids, all of the activities and the school and the things, or if you're running a business or going to work or whatever it is, there are so many things that can distract us and take us away from connection. And so what a beautiful message for the listeners to. Perhaps seek connection, whatever that may look like. Right. I think it's different for everyone.

Sara 47:02

Yeah.

Heather 47:05

So beautiful. And that's not always easy, so I do wanna share for anyone out there that's like, oh yeah, just, just connect with somebody or just do this, you know? It's different for all of us. And so maybe take a moment right now. And close your eyes and place your hands on your heart and feel into what does that mean for you? What does connection really mean for you? And you may not have the answer immediately. It may be something that you wanna sit with, over the next few days, over the next few weeks. I truly do believe that those types of answers really do live within us.

Sara 47:44

Mm-hmm.

Heather 47:47

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's been so wonderful to have you here and to sit in this place that truly does feel like love and peace. So thank you so much for putting your energy here in this field with us. And before we leave, I would love for you to share. With the local community. Right. We're here in the Blue Ridge area of Central Virginia. How can people find you? We'll have all of your information, of course, in the show notes, uh, but if you wanna share anything that you're doing, this will probably come out sometime in the summer, uh, ways people can connect with you, how you are creating community spaces for the people in this area.

Sara (2) 48:36

Yeah, sure. Well, the container pod.com is our website. Um, and that has the podcast and events and, um, uh, links to our coaching services. Um, we do, I do transformational connection coaching. Um, and the events that we have are, are, you know, about twice a month, sometimes more often. Um, there's a meetup for, you know, for those events. You can also find them on the website. Um, and they're, yeah, they're very consistent, very regular, usually at Tonga Yoga, uh, in Charlottesville, usually on a Saturday. And then we do, uh, some long, longer form workshops a couple of times a season as well. Um, so like authentic, the basics of authentic relating and, uh, workshop on friendship and how to cultivate and maintain friendship and. And other topics as well as, as you know, as we feel called or as the community asks as well. And, um, and yeah, the, we have the podcast is on YouTube, Spotify, apple, anywhere you listen to podcasts and it's called The Container.

Heather 49:50

Amazing. Amazing. And I would've liked to have asked this sooner, but it's coming up now, so it just might, might be the time that it's meant to come up for us. Could you share just a little bit about your coaching? For anyone out there that's listening that feels alone, that is in a place where they really feel like they need support, how is it that you would be able to help them?

Sara (2) 50:15

Yeah. Um, through. The practice of what I call transformational connection. Um, it is again, meeting, meeting the other person in the present moment and, and just staying there for, for a while. And, you know, I teach practices that that can help cultivate that connection, um, that people can bring to their family members, to their work life. The main thing that we do in a coaching session is practice circling together one-on-one and, um, and really delve deep into like, what is coming up right here, right now? And like, how can we use that as a sort of a holographic example of, of, you know, these larger patterns or, um, things that. That, you know, may present challenges for us in a, on a, you know, bigger scale in, in life.

Heather 51:14

That's beautiful. Thank you so much for shining that light in the community. You are so needed. There are so many people out there if you're listening, if you're one of them, just know that you are not alone. And there are many incredible coaches like Sarah Healers that are in this community here in the Blue Ridge area in Central Virginia. But also if you're listening from somewhere else. Uh, this could be an invitation to seek that out in your own community. So thank you so much, Sarah, for being here with us today. It's been such a pleasure. Mm, thank you. Listeners, as always, it has been so wonderful to be here with you today, wrapping you in so much love. Until next time.

Speaker 52:05

It was so wonderful to be here with you today. I know you're busy and that your time is precious, so thank you. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. If today's conversation resonated, it would really mean the world. If you'd take just a moment to rate and subscribe wherever you love to listen to podcasts, and if you feel called leaving a review or sharing this episode with someone who might need, it really helps the work. Reach the hearts it's meant for. You'll find all the links to connect to today's guest in the show notes below. Until next time, may you remember to quiet the chaos tune inward and hear her. She speaks your deepest truth.