Deals & Dollars: Real Estate Investors and Entrepreneurs
Welcome to the Deals & Dollars Podcast, hosted by David Choi, Eric Panecki, and John Libretti, three real estate executives from the New York City metro area. Every week, they bring on the best real estate investors and entrepreneurs they know to learn about how they got started, how they source their deals, and -- most importantly-- how they make their dollars.
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Deals & Dollars: Real Estate Investors and Entrepreneurs
How to Run a 90-Year-Long Building Material Dynasty w/ TJ Shaheen
Today on the show we have the Executive Vice President of Builder’s General: TJ Shaheen.
Have you ever walked into a place that felt like history was built into its very walls? That's the sensation TJ Sheehan, of Builders General, shares with us as we explore the rich narrative of a family business that's been the bedrock for builders, remodelers, and homeowners for over 90 years.
Delving beneath the surface of business transactions, we uncover the art of building relationships that last a lifetime. Builders General doesn't just sell lumber and windows; they forge partnerships and trust through hands-on product engagement and a sales team that knows the value of a handshake and a conversation. Listen in as TJ reveals the secret to their impressive employee retention and how treating customer interactions as more than mere financial exchanges has cemented their reputation as a reliable pillar in the industry.
Let's get into it!
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Wow, ninety years, over a hundred seventy employees, six locations, seven, seven, seven locations.
Speaker 2:That's absolutely incredible, man, when you have boots on the ground since 1931, that's huge. You're able to leave trails behind you and you can always go back and kind of learn, maybe from something that didn't work right. You have the knowledge that's being passed down from generation to generation. Three, two, one.
Speaker 1:All right, we got TJ here from Builders General. Builders General has been in business for over ninety years and they pride themselves on having grit, passion and perseverance. Tj, it's an honor to have you on the show. Why don't you just give the guests a little background on who you are?
Speaker 2:This is first time long time. I'm happy to be here downtown Newark at the Rock. You know it's been a long time, but I'm glad you brought me up here. Yeah, so I'm executive vice president. Builders General Supply Company, fourth generation. My great grandfather started in 1931. Today we have seven locations, 170 employees. We work out of four different counties Warren, mammoth, ocean, middlesex County, new Jersey and we sell primarily to builders, remodellers, homeowners, anything that really goes into a home. So think about the framework of your home the sticks right, lumber, windows, you go inside, we have cabinets. The finished work right. So you have decking, all that stuff. That is when you go home, right, you want to be able to just, you know, chill. Right. So you got windows. They look great, they function. You go out, you have your family out on the back deck. So we're really into all that finished work that really goes into a home, but also the skeleton, the bones of the home as well.
Speaker 1:Wow, 90 years over, 170 employees, six locations, seven, seven, seven locations. That's absolutely incredible, man. I mean starting off, I guess there's a question I could ask your great-great-grandfather right, is it? A great-grandfather? Yeah, it's. Do you have an idea of where the business started and how this business came to be?
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, it was really a real estate move. They were in Cranford, New Jersey and they wanted to just start a business, you know. So there was a calling back then for just everything, right, Anything that went into a home. We're talking the 1930s, Think about it. You know, we still got World War II going on, coming out of depression, and it was the old school. Like Cranford New Jersey today is a transit town, but back then it was a real small community.
Speaker 2:I worked there for a long time Out of their store we had there for a while, obviously, but it was just more a. It was like a catch-all. So if we sold appliances, we sold lumber, we sold anything that went into the home. We're not just talking about before. I said like the framework, but it was everything that kind of went into it. We sold coal, you know everything, Just crazy stuff like. Back then people needed something, and this is before the big box stores, right. So they needed something and we were able to provide that for the community and from there it spread. So from there my grandfather came along, loved the shore and they wound up moving down there in Momoth County, in Rumpson, New Jersey, and we opened a store in 1978. At that point that was our second location in Little Silver, New Jersey, and from there it just went, from there.
Speaker 1:It just started taking off from there, so he started supplying to builders contractors. What would you say? Your 80% of your business comes from.
Speaker 2:It's basically new construction, right? You see all these massive homes on the shore. You see a lot of interior remodeling that's going on as well. So we'll do both right. So our customer, our primary customer, is the custom builder, the remodeler. Homeowners do a little bit with us as well. They'll come in because they want to see and touch stuff. I always say the internet can only take you so far, right, everyone's on Google these days. They want to look something up. They go to social media and they'll see. All right, I want an Anderson window. That's all well and good. You can't touch the Anderson window, right, you can see what color it is, but you can't see it in person.
Speaker 2:So we have showrooms at all of our locations that help that homeowner make those finishing touches, because when you're building a home as a builder, you need to get on and move on to the next one, right? You can't be held up, and a lot of homeowners will be like I got to figure out the plumbing, I got to see what type of bathtub I want, I want to see what the electric, what type of lights I need. We don't do any of that, right, that's not our jam. But when it comes to windows, it comes to doors, it comes to decks, it comes to cabinets. That's huge because they can come into our showrooms and see exactly what it is, feel the weight of a door, how a window opens. It's again the home is where that's your heart, right there. You come home, that's your little, that's your spot, right, and you want to make sure that it's cozy. And if you have kids, you want to make sure it works for them so we're able to really offer all those services to our builder so that they can keep moving forward.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, gotcha, I love that. To be in business for 90 years, man, I've been in business for six and it's been kicking my ass left and right. Yeah, so 90 years. You have to have something that differentiates you, that allows your customers to not only just keep coming back but refer business and keep driving revenue right. What would you say is the core differentiating factor that has allowed Builders General to stand the test of time?
Speaker 2:I really like to think that it's the relationship all right and it can't be really authenticated enough. When you have boots on the ground since 1931, that's huge. You're able to leave trails behind you and you can always go back and kind of learn, maybe from something that didn't work right. You have the archives, you have the knowledge that's being passed down from generation to generation. You know surviving financial crisis, surviving the depression, everything like there's always. You know these peaks and valleys with the economy. So we're going through one right now. Right, so we're seeing interest rates that are being crazy. They're trying to cool the market off.
Speaker 2:We went through, you know, the pandemic and the crazy stuff that went on with supply chain and pricing, inflation, not being able to get stuff and when stuff came in it was broken, wrong and incomplete and having to deal with your customer. So, for us, having that knowledge and being able to go back and lean on our forefathers right, for lack of a better term, but my dad went through a bunch of stuff like that. My uncle went through that with him and being able to go back and kind of learn from that wisdom as we, the next generation, start to go through what's to come right, but I believe the relationship is everything, because your relationships with your customers they stick to that. It's magnetic Relationships with your suppliers same thing magnetic. And your employees. They see that, they see that there's longevity there. So for them we offer a career path and we have employees that have been with us.
Speaker 2:We have 170 employees. Let me break this down right 170 employees Over 60%, have been with us for five plus years 60% we have employees that are 20 years, 30, 40 years. That is that's testimonial in the works right in front of you. It's visual, it's audio, it's all that stuff. So you see all that and that's that's all. Magnetic. It sticks to builders. General allows us to keep persevering and powering through.
Speaker 1:I love that answer, man, and it's all relationships and it's something that. It's something that that your employees can look to and say Okay, this is a relationship business. There's when we get a customer, it sticks and it's reoccurring revenue, right, yeah, what would you say are the most important aspects of maintaining and building relationships with your customers?
Speaker 2:I always say that the biggest thing is you have to start somewhere and you have to earn the trust right. It's a process. So when you prospect or you get handed an account, because maybe one of your guys went on to retire so you get a new book of business, right, it has to start, but it's it's the starting process of building trust. And if you can go down that road and build that trust over time and it takes time it's not the flip of the switch. Now, being builders general, yeah, they can say, Well, you guys have been here, we know the Sheeheen family, we know they've always taken care of me. But you know what? You just got handed this account.
Speaker 2:I don't know you from anybody, but you work for builders general. My guy just retired after being with me for 30 years. So how are you going to? What are you going to do for me? You got to show me some value. You got to. You got to be there when, when, when I call it's. But it's a process, it's habits, and you got to keep doing it again and again and again. So the moment that you don't, the moment that you're not there, you just set yourself back to zero, right? So for me. I always tell our sales guys you got to be, you're starting that evolution of trust and it's a journey. It doesn't just happen tomorrow and it doesn't happen with a switch of you know, of just. It just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1:Right, you know I'm saying right. No, I totally agree, totally agree. I run the sales team for for leverage, and I always say if you want to earn someone's business, you have to build trust. Trust beats rapport. And the way you build trust and, quite frankly, we don't have years to build relationships it's a very transactional business and so, for us, the way that we try to build trust is through three methods it's being account, it's accountability, transparency and it's authenticity Right, and when you could show a client that you're accountable and you're and you're transparent, look like we may not be the best guy for the job, right?
Speaker 1:Right, I'm sorry to be honest with you. We might not be able to get you the price that you're looking for, and I feel horrible about it. Right, I wish I could be the guy that could get you this ridiculous price, but I might not be the guy for you and you might be better off going to X person, right, but I would love to an opportunity to earn your business, and it's it's little things like that that that make a big difference as far as conversion goes from the appointments to to a deal signed. Right, but for me, I'm having a really hard time taking this business to the next level, right? We? I think we have 30 US based employees, about 30 overseas.
Speaker 1:Okay, and man, I've been through so many rounds of sales hires. I mean I'm talking like I guess. I mean it's nothing compared to what you've been through, I'm sure, but for me you know, like maybe 10, 15 rounds of three, four people, that that haven't stuck and we have a pretty high attrition rate when it comes to sales hires, because you need to be an absolute animal if you're going to make it here. Right, you can make a lot of money, but you need to have the skill sets to do it. So I guess my question is is how are you creating sustainability in sales growth, revenue growth, retention? How are you? How are you finding the right talent? Like what are some gold? Like some gems that you could drop for for a young entrepreneur trying to build out a sales organization?
Speaker 2:Well isn't? I'm no spring chicken either, right, so, but I like where you're coming from. You hit me with that transactional thing, right, when you're describing some of the relationships For us. I've always said that, and maybe it is because we have customers for as long as we have and maybe it's one of the benefits for being in business as long as we have, right. But I say you got to take it up another level, right, it's not transactional with us. You have to have emotionality behind it. Right, you have to start become as a salesperson as you grow and you've, you develop with us, to start to have a sixth sense. Right, have a head on a swivel.
Speaker 2:Now, what I mean by that is don't be transactional. Find out about your customer. Know what they like to do. You know, you got to break through those barriers to to really get to know who the customer is as a person. Right, he's a person, just like you and I are. He might like to go see the next, you know, madison Square Garden. He might want to see the Rangers. He might want to see a play. He might want to go. You know, whatever it is, find out what it is that he likes to do, but you don't have to be like intrusive about it.
Speaker 2:Yep, when I say sixth sense is that you just got to. You got to get to that level where you just have that that sense to know when to ask the right question, when to when to break through. And you got to find and pick your spots, because some guys are hard, ass right, they're straight up. Some other guys are just they're, they're soft, it's the other side of the pillow. There's all different shades of of customer customers that are out there. So for you as a salesperson, you have to be able to identify, adapt, tuck and roll and find out what works to make that, that relationship, magnetic. That's the bottom line for me anyway.
Speaker 1:Gotcha Gotcha. So I mean I guess it's a lot easier said than done, right, but with the retention rate of like 60% staying for five years, is it? Do you feel like it's a? You have a gut feeling when it comes to hiring? You just kind of know how are you finding your talent?
Speaker 2:It's in this day and age is hard. It is real hard, especially what we went through with the coming out of the pandemic as well. There was so much pent up demand it was going crazy. It was almost like we don't need any more business, but we need help. So let's find a way to sell our company so that Builders General becomes a place to work, not only a place to buy. Start your career with us. So we're trying to do that across different marketing ways of trying to get that message out.
Speaker 2:But I believe that if you can tap into people that are coming out of college maybe college isn't for them and you say look, we're offering a career path. You don't want to be saddled with tuition, you don't want to be just parents, don't want their kids sitting at home and they're 25 years old playing Xbox. So come down to Builders General. We're a family-owned and operated business and you can see from our other employees. Hopefully you get into that ecosphere where you're part of Builders General and you're working along with somebody that's been out there for 10 years. He can mentor you and you hope now it's not always going to work that way, but you know what, if you get half, I think you're doing a pretty good job at it and those employees start to see that what other employees are doing? So now you have like a testimonial that's going on real time in front of you. So if I'm a new employee and I see you even work for 10 years, you and I are talking right.
Speaker 2:It's like dude, these guys are great. They hooked us up, we got a snow day. They still paid us. They had a Christmas time, we do bonuses, all those little fluff things, but after the end of the day you're still there, monday through Friday, 9 to 5. So what's so good about it? Well, you know what? You're getting a steady paycheck, you're getting benefits, which is huge. You have a retirement plan and for somebody that's 25 years old, sitting at home doing nothing if a parent hears that message get out to house, go down to Builders General, start somewhere and hopefully that career path it's going to stick. Because we have an aging population within our own company, because all those guys are 20 and guys and girls. Then with their 20, 30, 40 years, well, they're going to start to retire, right. So we need to backfill and find a way to fill our farm team roster, because a lot of our varsity. People are going to start moving up and out, so yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that. When you said grit, passion and perseverance, it sounds like it not only applies to just your customers and how you serve them. It's how you serve every single person that works for you, yep, and that's how you retain. I guess that's the key to hiring and finding and retaining great talent. You just take care of your people.
Speaker 2:Right, and the ownership, like I said, we're family-owned business and we have a lot of different family members that are involved in the business on a day-to-day operation, day-to-day basis rather. So they see all that, the employees see all that and then, like I said, then you have that next year of employee that's been with it 20 and 30 years, those other employees see that and it just stacks on down where it builds back up, Because that is, I guess, again, that's got to be for me. When you see all that, you can believe as an employee that the company is going to take care of you and you're just not a number and it's just it's got to be doing something right, because the stats are there and those numbers don't lie. So our job as owners to keep this business going down the line is to make sure that that secret sauce of ours doesn't get diluted and that we've grown.
Speaker 2:Like I said, seven locations when I first joined the business I was 20 years old and we had maybe three or four locations that time. We've doubled since then. So for us we've got to keep making sure that what we're doing is not diluted either, Because sometimes just staying and doing what you're doing, because you're doing it pretty well. You don't want to just start to go too crazy Because all of a sudden that dilution can ruin what you work so hard to put in the first place. You know what I'm saying. So you got to. If you're doing something you're doing pretty well, just manage that for now, Because it's working for you. Don't go crazy.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, totally, Totally. I'm curious, man, because Eric's got a kid on the way and he's always talking about little Mikey and he wants little Mikey to come here make some calls, negotiate some deals, close them. And obviously me and Eric have planned on hopefully having kids that want to be in the business and, from what I see, four generations of family owned and operated business. That's not an easy feat. Most kids see their parents in business and they want to go the opposite direction. What was it about your family that made the kids and the next generation want to stay?
Speaker 2:Well, I can only speak for myself, but I know that I was 10 years old, we grew up on a farm and I was the oldest of four and my grandfather just passed away in 1978. So then my dad got saddled with running the business going forward. So now, fast forward, he's got four kids and my mom at home and she was like, look, you've got to take one of them to work. I can't, I just reduced the population of the household by 25%, please.
Speaker 2:I take TJ out. So I started working in the lumber yard and I went to college. I worked outside. I didn't get any special nothing. I was out there driving a forklift and I was getting hazed by guys doing all sorts of stupid things. So then I went to college and then I stayed over. I went to college up in Vermont, at St Michael's College in Burlington, and I stayed over one year just to take classes during the summertime and the only thing I could think of was go work for a lumber company. So that's the only time I actually worked for another company.
Speaker 2:I was working for a lumber company up there and then I came back and I just started working in the business and I really felt it was to be really just real was that I just felt I had a calling to be there? It was one of those things for me, and maybe it was just being oldest, firstborn, whatever, but I always felt like this was not destiny, but there was just this drive to go and work in the family business and I always wanted to make my dad, my uncle, proud and also my grandfather, because my grandfather, I remember him, but I was young, I was like four or five when he passed. But I just felt like it's a Shaheen family business, this is your birthright, you've got to do it, this is something you have to do. So for me it wasn't anything else, it was just my DNA, I guess. But I never had another thing to work, any other business really, than to continue doing what I was doing.
Speaker 1:You knew what you wanted to do when you were 10 years old. This was it Question for you, any of your other siblings in the business?
Speaker 2:Yep, I have two brothers in the business, I have a cousin in the business and I have two aunts in the business as well. My sister number one wanted to be in the business. She's a nurse out in Denver, Colorado. So again, and my other two brothers they didn't always come in the business at the same time, they went off and did their own things, and that's great that they could do that. And sometimes I wish if I had something. Yeah, maybe I would have done it too. But for me, like I said, I just felt this inner drive to come work for the company.
Speaker 1:Awesome. How do you manage that you got two brothers in the business? I get in enough fight with my brother, you know. Yeah, to be in business with your family must be both incredibly rewarding and incredibly tough it.
Speaker 2:You know what it is it there's. There's a lot of times where in the past you have to find a way to manage personalities, but everyone's got their strengths right and you got to figure out. All right, you're in that swim lane, I'm in this swim lane and don't cross the streams. I can go spustered. So it's just like don't cross the stream. So, and for me, you know, I just I feel that as long as everyone's doing what they should be doing because everyone does a great job of what they do do and for me, you know, it was just matter of just sorting things out Because, yeah, family businesses are tough.
Speaker 2:It's just like being family at home. But at the same point in time, you know it's it's not always going to be Rosie 100 percent of the time, but everyone's got the right, the right, the mental approach to things to say we all want the best for the company. So you're going to have some, you know, friction sometimes, but I feel that for the most of the time, if everyone stays in our lane and does a great job, but what continues to do a great job of what they're doing, the business is just going to be fine. And as you mature in the business as well. You come out of college, you get in your 20s and you're in your 30s and then, as you get older and older, you find that you start to realize that you also have wisdom now and you can share that with others, and I feel that maturing in the business as a family member helps immensely.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that answer. People staying in their lanes is so important. Me and Eric, when we, when we first start our first company together uh, we're both captain type, you know, type A. We want to rule the world, we have to be the captain of the ship, and we used to butt heads all the time on every matter. But it despite us butting butting heads. We both wanted what was best for the business at all times, and the mentality was right we were going to persevere, we're going to make this thing work, no matter what. Um, but it wasn't until we both decided, like all right, dude, I'm running this part of the business and you're running this part where we finally started to take ownership and responsibility of of of the things that were assigned to us. Right, no more stepping on each other's toes, no more crossing each other's streams, right, right. And that's when, really, we found we started having the most joy. Yeah, no more bickering about my new you know the small decisions.
Speaker 2:Right, the little, the little shit stuff, because you wind up just getting wired in that minutia and you completely just get an envelope shoe and then how long that that cloud will hold over, because some people hold grudges, some people can just shut it off like it's nothing and that bothers a person that that might be sensitive versus somebody that just could give two shits, right? So like all right, well, that was yesterday. I see that with like different families, he can just shed something like water on a duck's back. It doesn't matter that we got in a fight today. Tomorrow they wake up. It's just like they're like puppies, are like wait, what, what? What happened? What happened?
Speaker 1:I'm the sensitive one in the relationship.
Speaker 2:I'm like dude, you don't remember. I mean I blood for you, like what the heck happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah so but yeah, no, I feel that it's. It's, I mean for you too. Like you know, you got two captains and one ship. You're going to have to either get two ships or find, like you know, some focus on what your strengths are, and sometimes we can all also work with a consultant that can help kind of, you know, meander through and give guidance as well. So that always helps to to sit down and say look this, this, I love your passion, but you know what. It's better over here rather than, you know just you know, button heads with somebody over there, because it's just completely anti productive and, on top of that, it's just not good for your own mental health in business because you know, like I said, it's a family owned business. So you're not leaving today, you want to keep doing this for the rest of your career and it's got to be a healthy relationship for sure.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Do you? How do you guys operate your like, um, what are some entrepreneurial operating systems that you guys use to keep the company rolling in the same direction? Because you know, obviously, like the transparency was a huge thing for Eric. For example, I'd be working on sales and marketing and I would just be going. I had this huge plan in my head. It wasn't written out. You know, this was early in the in in our business, but I was, I was going and uh, I didn't really care what he was working. I, when he was working on, I said you know what, if Eric's working on it, it's going to go great. Right, I trusted blindly. But Eric was like dude, like I want to know what that's going on in the company. And so we had to start developing like these operating systems so that way we could start setting goals and, you know, keep everything transparent. What, how do you operate a hundred seventy person company?
Speaker 2:So we again, we fall back on what has worked in the past. Um, and, and we, we, we know that as long as we rely on again doing what we do, don't try to invent the the wheel here. Um, this business has become powering through for for over 90 years, and and again, sometimes you just got to stay on the track, right, um, if you try to go out and start pulling in all these different things, in some businesses that works, but in other businesses, especially in ours, we're an intimate business, even with a hundred and seventy employees, where, where, where, I like to think that we're all a family. I know a lot of them by name. I know a lot of them that I had at my wedding. Um, you know, it's, it's, we transcend all that. So there's a lot of relationships in the business, a lot of relationships out of the business, um, so I feel that as long as we keep doing what we do not get crazy. You start bringing all these different things with metrics and this whatever, da, da, da, da, da.
Speaker 2:A certain extent, yeah, that works for certain things, to attack and address certain things, but you don't want to get too, too rambunctious with things, because then it starts. People start putting their hands up, saying, like, what's going on here, right? So there's that, that moment of rejection, and how do you bring people back in? It's it. You got to just, again, focus on what you do and just keep doing that, because until something, something starts to break and that's not working for you anymore. Then you got to go back and say, all right, let's, let's, let's bring everyone together and say, look, we're off that track now, let's get. We got to get back on the track because we're starting to lose customers, starting to lose employees, start to lose sales, and that will still that'll start cascade down the line and it's like, wait, how did we get here, right? So for us, I feel that, because we are a big family, that we, we, we can, we can address it when we need to and, um, it's, and, like I said, it's, it's, it's working right now.
Speaker 1:I love that Stick to your core competencies. You have 90 years of track record saying this thing works. Let's just keep doing this thing, yeah.
Speaker 2:What, um, and staying intimate, you know, I mean it's like we're intimate with our, with our customers, were intimate with our suppliers, were intimate with, with our employees, it and when I say intimate it's like we, we, we just there's something there that works right. So for me, like you know, I wouldn't know it's above anybody, we just it, just that's the environment we create and I like to think that because that intimacy is there, it's why our suppliers will do what they can for us. We're in a, we're in a jam. They'll bend over backwards for us, our employees again, the roster speaks for itself and our customers, they see that they get in the jam on a job.
Speaker 2:I estimated something for 100,000. You know, you guys in voices for 125. Can you help us? Let's just maybe split it, do something. We look at it, we see what it is and it's like there's no black and white. We like a lot of color and we say, all right, man, we'll work with it, because we know that's not your last house, we know you need another house, you're gonna, you're gonna keep building, that's your job. So our customer seeing that, that we can, we can listen to it and be intimate. Again, it's about that magnetism, you know it's just helping each other out staying intimate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess I have a question. Um, as far as I have a bunch, I have a bunch of questions. But as far as succession planning goes, I know that's something that I don't have to worry about right now, but it's probably starting to to. Eric's probably started to think about how to make it effective. Or you're creating alignment of interest for your you know, your your employees, creating alignment for anyone, anyone that comes into the company. What kind of advice do you have for someone who's starting to think about that?
Speaker 2:Well for succession planning. I believe that you got to find the right successor. So you know, if you're in a family owned business, you hope that that it's there for that next generation. You know I have a daughter. I don't know if she wants to. You know, be that next, you know, family member that comes in the business my, my, my cousin and my uncle both have kids. So you know, that could be that, that, that that roster that we build up, that could be our forum team as owners to seed them and get them into. You want this, that's great.
Speaker 2:But if nothing's going to be given to you just like it was with us, you had to earn it right. So I didn't just become executive vice president. I was, like I said, I was out in the yard. Then after college I was working the sales counter. Then I worked, worked outside sales, manage a bunch of yards and then, you know, elevated from there.
Speaker 2:But you know I there's nothing there that I would say that I have not done that. Someone's going to come up to me and say, well, you never, you never driven truck before, you never dropped a load of lumber, unloaded a house load of Anderson windows. Yeah, I have a lot of times right, but but I feel that for, for, if you want to keep it in the business, a family owned business yeah, I think it's a great opportunity for the kids to come in and do what we did and what my dad and my uncle did, my aunts did. Having that, that, that, that that that that opportunity is is huge, because it can be easy but it can be hard, but at the end of the day you have to earn it, you have to put in your reps, you have to become that well rounded athlete and you have to be able to be.
Speaker 2:You know that you gotta have that DNA in you, because if you don't and I think a lot of people are born with it or they're not when it comes to that DNA and you want to be a part of this business and you want to help run this business so that it goes to the fifth generation show us right and then at that time we'll be able to gradually six, you know, have that succession right. And I'm just talking about being in the family business. Everything else I don't know about.
Speaker 1:Wow. So, yeah, I love that. I love that. Where do you want to take this thing? Well, you know you're. You're the executive vice president. You're next on a totable to take over as president. Where, what's your vision over the next? I guess five, 10, 15 years for the company.
Speaker 2:I think that with our business again, new Jersey is a weird, weird state. It's a densest state in the union, right as far as people. We got 10 million people in New Jersey. There's. There's a lot. We're fortunate to be where we are, that there's a lot of demand there, right, people are always going to be wanting to build or remodel. We have the. We have the Jersey Shore. There's a lot of secondary homes there and same thing, as these homes age, we're seeing a lot of people on the sideline with handcuffs on because they got a low refi or mortgage you know for for 3% or high twos.
Speaker 2:We're looking at something where in the sevens or sixes now. So I feel where we can take this is we're fortunate to be in New Jersey. There's always going to be. It's a high demand area. They want a lot of high quality put into their homes.
Speaker 2:We're in those markets. They're very affluent markets. So we know who our customer is and our and our builder that's doing that home for that, that homeowner that wants that five, six, seven, eight million dollar home. They know what they want and they want it now and we're able to do that.
Speaker 2:So I feel that it's again it's about the chemistry, it's about our DNA, it's about us continuing to do what has worked for us the last 90 years and I feel that as long as we keep doing that, like I said, there's gonna be no shortage of demand and we're fortunate to be in that spot and and you know there's there's enough to go around with other competitors that market had that, that whole landscape hasn't changed too much. You don't see a lot of M&A going on in our business. There's a lot of family businesses that do what we do, but there's probably maybe a handful now. Right, but we all do a good job at servicing our customers. I do believe that as long as we keep doing what we're doing in New Jersey, in the spots that we're located, with the boots on the ground that we have, will just be, will be just fine.
Speaker 1:You're just gonna continue to grow by virtue of doing the right thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah of having long-standing relationships with suppliers, with customers, and and just and just doing what you know works time after time, at the time, and we've had opportunities to acquire and we have, and we bought a company up in Warren County who does a great job at, again, the interior doors and trim and mill work.
Speaker 2:It's such an important Part of the home and we found that would be a good, you know, in addition to our portfolio, because we weren't particularly good in doing that, that part. So if we can find ways that we can supply more of the home In in high margin product groups, that's gonna work for us because we're adding we're adding, you know, revenue and also increase in profits, right, so that that works, that works for us. Well, but yeah, at the end of the day, I think that we just got to keep our eye on the ball and that should take care of itself and we'll have to see again when the market does what it does. You just got to tuck and roll. We know that from our past experiences with all that. So, yeah, that's that's what we got to keep doing.
Speaker 1:What do you think the I mean I'm sure it's not. It's not easy for any any builder right now. Interest rates is has made it incredibly difficult to build at a yield that, that is, that you know, at a point where you're not borrowing at negative leverage and so, like Talk, it's, it's virtually impossible to build new construction apartments.
Speaker 1:I think, it's still pretty profitable to build like luxury homes. Yeah, an exit on that front. But how was business? How have you fared with with all the interest rate hikes? And you know what are you. What are you doing to kind of overcome those challenges?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that a lot of it rest on our customer, again the, the builder, the GC, the remodeler and who their customers are. And again I feel that, look, when you see these rates that come out, they're always scary. Right, it's 30 year, 8%, you know. Oh, my god, like what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2:We can't do anything. It's a yay, you can, yeah, you can. In the old days, it was double digits. Yeah, right, double digits. Let's not like it, you know. You know, the sky isn't falling here.
Speaker 2:Everyone wants stuff for free. Well, you can't have stuff for free. You got a 2%, that's great. Well, look it's, it's, it's a lot of. It is, I think, smoke and mirrors. But at the end of the day, yeah, it does cause hesitation, it does scare a lot of people, it keeps and it's keeping a lot of people on the sidelines right now, and we see it. But we do feel that if, if the rates continue to drop and that's what the economists are saying, it's particularly to our market, new Jersey, that the end of 24, 25, that housing, will lead us out of this, these Doldrums that we're going through. So I think that the customers that are doing business right now, they continue to again, they've been in business for a long time. They're, they're, they're making adjustments on the fly as well. At the end of the day, again, we're fortunate enough to be in a market that's got high demand. There's a lot, there's a lot of opportunity here and and and we'll, we'll find a way to, you know, persever out of this, so I'm not worried about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I very much believe you guys will yeah. Tj, some parting wisdom here For the entrepreneurs that want to get to the fourth, fifth, sixth generation. What's the best piece of advice you could give them?
Speaker 2:I Think you got to start off right. If you're gonna start off, you just you got to find, you got to create a nucleus, right, and maybe that's just you. And Then from there you, you find a good product and then you find the consumer that matches up with that product or service, right and and and and find out what works. Some of them, a lot of entrepreneurs, I don't know what the failure rate is, right, but there's a lot of fails. But then you get that one win. You know, don't be frustrated because you have fails, like I say with prospecting all the time. Look, not everybody's gonna pick up the phone, but if somebody picked up the phone, you made that call as a salesperson. That's a win. You got something there. Don't put your head down because you didn't get the order. You got to build that relationship. We talked about it before building trust. It's an evolution, it's a process, it's a journey and it's a long one. But once you get to that spot, be able to develop a sixth sense of a salesperson as an owner, and and have a head on a Swivel and there's more to that than just that.
Speaker 2:But I feel with, if you're an entrepreneur and you're just starting off, how do you get to that next generation? You can't look too far down the road because that, that hasn't, that hasn't worked for us. What I'm saying is that you got to just look what's in front of you and just lay down those tracks and eventually, hopefully, those tracks go around your, your world, right, and that's how you build. But worry about yourself right now, that's all you can do. Build a nucleus, find a consumer that loves a product and service and loves you, right, loves the relationship, because you can offer a product and service and it's just transactional. They ain't gonna work for me. Yeah, you need to have emotionality behind it. Like, why do we love doing business with the Sheen family? Because the da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da da. It's multi-dimensional. There's levels there, but that's happened over time. So we developed our nucleus in 1931 and we've seen that grow. And then you fast forward and next generation comes along. Well, that can absorb that generation because the nucleus is, is bigger now, right?
Speaker 2:So if you, if you follow me, yes you got a, you got to lay down those tracks. Build your nucleus, find a customer, make them Love you and have a product or service that's gonna be consistent. Make improvements and adjustments down the way, but in this moment, in this time, have them love you and I don't care what it is, but whatever it is that you're given to them, they love you, they want it. They're gonna keep buying it. But be not transactional, be emotional, multi-dimensional and get to that sixth sense where that customer loves you. I love it, man.
Speaker 1:And you know what, dude? I could tell already that what you guys have is a great product and at this point in time, the product is starting to is selling itself. So, tj, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been a real pleasure. If the builders that are listening being real estate investors, that needs supplies or want to reach out to you, maybe for some advice, yeah, what's the best way to get in contact?
Speaker 2:So builders, general comm, you can hit me up in LinkedIn TJ Sheehan, I'm there. Social media is, you know, we're all over the place, do a good job marketing, so you'll find us. But, um, yeah, man, it's been great to be here and just what we? I think we cracked a nut. We got to shake the rest of the tree, right, because there's a lot more nuts up there, for sure. But again, yeah, I think it's again, just to go back, what you said that product is your heart, right. The. What you're selling is completely material. The service is the same thing, it's tangible. But you got to find a way to put the emotion and in the multi-dimensionality and build that over time and and again. It's, it's a process, it's an evolution. That's what I believe in, anyway.
Speaker 1:I love that man. That's great advice TJ really appreciated. Brother, thank you so much. Thanks for having me here.
