Deals & Dollars: Real Estate Investors and Entrepreneurs
Welcome to the Deals & Dollars Podcast, hosted by David Choi and Eric Panecki, real estate executives from the New York City metro area and founders of Leverage Companies. Every week, they bring on the best real estate investors and entrepreneurs they know to learn about how they got started, how they source their deals, and -- most importantly-- how they make their dollars.
If you're interested in being on the show or want to receive exclusive invites to our networking events, you can reach out at (http://www.dealsndollars.com)
Deals & Dollars: Real Estate Investors and Entrepreneurs
How Pace Morby is TAKING OVER the Real Estate Industry
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What does it take to build a real estate community of 30,000 investors doing billions of dollars worth of deals? We were so excited when the one and only Pace Morby asked to come by our new offices in Newark, NJ. We got to spend the afternoon with him, give him a tour of our new facilities, and sit down with him for an hour long discussion on the incredible things he's doing in real estate... and how his future plans will blow it all out of the water.
Pace shares how he went from working as a contractor—just another service provider in real estate—to becoming a creative finance investor who now buys over $100 million worth of property each year, often from his own students. A mentor named Bethany played a pivotal role, reminding him that “no matter how much you read about water, it will never teach you how to swim” before pushing him to dive into real estate head-on.
He explains why new investors should focus less on how to get their first deal and more on who will buy it. That mindset shift helped him wholesale 70 properties in his first year, all thanks to one reliable end buyer. He also shares how an escrow officer, Eileen Brown, introduced him to the possibilities of subject-to transactions and seller financing—strategies many investors keep quiet.
Community is at the heart of Pace’s approach. Instead of the negativity that often plagues online forums, he’s built a culture where seasoned investors actively help newcomers. He visits 120 cities a year, meets thousands of people face-to-face, and hosts events where beginners can partner with experienced investors on real deals.
Looking ahead, Pace envisions a “Sub-To Economy”—a platform where community members can connect with trusted partners for every stage of the investing process, complete with social proof and gamification. His bigger motivation? Helping others achieve financial freedom, especially his team members, who share in his portfolio through shadow equity.
If you’re ready to move beyond theory and finally jump into the deep end of real estate, this episode is for you.
Join the Deals & Dollars community today. If you're interested in becoming a guest on the show or receiving exclusive invites to our networking events, sign up on our official website.
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Meeting Pace Morby
Speaker 1Ladies and gentlemen, we have not done a podcast in over a year, but today we're rolling out the red carpet for the one and only Pace Morby.
Speaker 2You guys have been too busy lending out money, bro. You guys will do $700, $800 million this next 12 months. That's incredible.
Speaker 1Thank you, man. We have been busy pumping out loans, doing deals. Take a break, just because, honestly, there's a lot more money in the actual real estate business, for us at least. Yeah, we'd missed doing the podcast. There was a ton of value, not only for the audience but for us to learn from people like you.
Speaker 2So yeah, you get it. The cool thing about a podcast is you get to meet new people and like busy guys like you and your partner and your team you don't have a lot of time to go grab coffee, right, so it's like a podcast really checks that box where you can get to know people and simultaneously give some value to your audience as well.
Speaker 1Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2By the way, guys, everybody in the audience, this operation that these guys are running is top notch great culture, great product, great. Everything else and that should tell you something about the people that you are watching is that they know what they're doing.
Speaker 1They're not full of crap because there's a lot of people I stopped by that are just full of fugazi. You guys are awesome, man. What you guys are doing is really cool. Thanks, man, praise the Lord, thank you All right, so let's dive into it. Pace, if the people don't know you, can you just give a little background on who you are?
Speaker 2Yeah, I used to be a contractor for a long time. Came from a family of 12 kids and my dad was a contractor, so what did I end up doing? I ended up being a contractor and had somebody when I was 30, probably about five years older than where you are right now when I was 30, I had a lady come and change my life and showed me how to get my first deal and I got so obsessed with that transformation of not just flipping houses but flipping people. This lady flipped me right. She completely flipped me into a full on. She renovated me like she would a house and I had a full transformation and walked into a new life which was understanding how to get into real estate deals with no money. And then I passed the torch to somebody else. I got obsessed with it.
Speaker 2I got that helper's high that you get you know, you feel that the word purpose when you help somebody else out, and I got so obsessed with it that I started building a real estate community that all follows the same core values, and that real estate community has now grown to 30,000 people strong and now I buy more real estate from my students than I ever bought on my own, which is actually the best acquisition model you could ever imagine. Like, I bought a hundred million dollars in real estate from students last year, so I teach you how to go find deals. I buy those deals in excess of a hundred million bucks in a year and I didn't have to pick up a phone call. It's kind of it's kind of cool.
Speaker 1It's incredible.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1So 30,000 strong right now? Yeah, Going back to this lady that changed your life. What does she teach you?
Speaker 2She told me a great quote. And the quote she told me was no matter how much you read about water, it will never teach you how to swim. I was like, wait what she says no matter how much you read about water, it will never teach you how to swim. And I didn't know what that meant until she applied it to real estate. She said you could read all the books, go to all the seminars, take all the courses, but until somebody actually throws you to the deep end, you're not going to learn how to swim. And I said but you know, jumping in the deep end is hard, like cold calling and doing these things. I don't know how to comp. I don't even know what the acronym ARV stands for, but people say it all the time. I have no idea. I was 30 at the time. So this is now 12 years ago. And what she did is she said pull out your phone, I'm going to throw you in the deep end. And she made me pull out my phone. And she made me go to a website and spend money on mailers which I don't use mailers now, but at the time, 12 years ago. Mailers and post cards, all that kind of stuff. So she makes me spend 5,000 bucks Right there on the spot. Right there on the spot.
Speaker 2Now, where this lady came from is somewhat important. I was her contractor, so I was flipping her houses for her. And then, on the third house, she says to me why aren't you in real estate? And I go I'm in real estate. Look at me, I'm a contractor. She's like no, no, no, no, you are a slave to my real estate business. I am in real estate. You are not. You are a service provider to someone who is in real estate. And she goes do you know what a notary is? I go yeah, I know what a notary is.
Speaker 2She goes, would you say that they're in real estate? I go no, they are a service provider. She goes that's you. You're just as important to this transaction as a notary. I could replace you with a Google search. Wow, what Lady dropped bombs on me, dude, it was just pumping like punching me right in the gut.
Speaker 1Holy smokes she was good man.
Speaker 2She was really good. She was mean and sassy and it's what I needed. I needed at the age of 30, I needed a wake up call. Yeah, and I just recently gone through like an early midlife crisis where I I'm turning 30 seems old at the time. Now I look back at 30. I'm like that's the youngest I would ever go back to. I'd never go back previous to 20. I would never go back to my 20s. It was horrible.
Speaker 2I was going through this thing where I told my friends I go, we're turning 30. Let's go do something cool. So I invited my friends to go play Torrey Pines golf course in SoCal. We go out there, we play day one, then day two pops up and they're all like kind of lollygagging, not getting ready to go play golf. I go guys, we have a tee time at nine o'clock. Oh yeah, we're thinking we're not going to go play. Why Come to find out they don't have the money.
Speaker 2I'm at 30. I'm 30 years old and my friends that are like my diehard friends can't even afford to play golf two days in a row and they're like let's just go down and hang out on the beach. I'm like four dudes are not hanging out on the beach, dude, let. So I pay for their day two, I pay for their day three and on day four I'm like I'm flying home. I can't hang out with you guys.
From Contractor to Real Estate Investor
Speaker 2I realized in that moment I just didn't have anybody in my life that was pushing me, showing me options, new ways of making money. I mean even even at your level and my level. I meet new people like I had lunch with Gary Vee this morning and I was with Gary Vee and in 45 minutes of spending time with him he made me feel like I wasn't thinking big enough. Right, I didn't have any of that at that age. Bethany then comes into my life like three months later. She says spend five grand on your phone right now and I spend five grand. Leads start coming in like in a week. I have no idea what to do with these leads. So she says call me when you get a lead, I'll go on the appointment with you. And so she just started going on appointments with me. She'd fill out the paperwork, she'd comp the property and I sold her 70 deals in my first month, my first year. 70 deals. I made like $1.2 million.
Speaker 1Well, you wholesale 70 deals to her.
Speaker 2Yeah, I wholesaled 70 deals to her in my first year. Like, think about it, she's my only buyer. I didn't even know how to find buyers right. Like now, like if you're wholesaling, one of the top questions people ask all the time is, like, so how do I get started in real estate? And I go find a buyer, because you're not going to buy the first deal you go, you acquire, you're going to assign it to somebody else. Go find a buyer that's credible, right. And so I was lucky. I got so lucky.
Speaker 2I found a lady that was buying and flipping over a hundred houses a year. She was a gangster and she was pushing really hard at that point in her life because she was trying to retire like be done. So she'd flip 70,. She'd keep 30 every single year, right, and that was her model. She built a portfolio large enough that she went and retired and that was my last year or her. Her last year in the business was my, my first year with her. And so she calls me up a year later and I've made a like $1.2 million and I'm like just wholesaling right to her.
Speaker 2Yep and I. You know, I was a contractor too for like open door offer, pad and Zillow.
Speaker 1Oh, wow.
Speaker 2So I was making really good money. I was taking home a million dollars a year back then. But as yeah, so anyway. She retires and I go oh crap, like what do I do now? I had no idea where to find buyers. So I run into a guy named Jamil Damji. I don't know if you follow him.
Speaker 1Yeah, I know, jamil.
Speaker 2And Jamil buys 150 deals with me that following year.
Speaker 1Partners up with you.
Speaker 2Say I just kept, oh, you kept wholesaling it to Jamil so. I'd make like 30 grand. He'd pop them for five grand, so he'd I'd bring a deal to him. I'm direct to seller right and I'd be in the living room. I'm the one getting the contracts. I'd send them over to Jamil. I still have no idea how to find buyers myself.
Speaker 1He's astro, is it? What is it called Astro flipping? Astro flipping, yeah, he's just popping.
Speaker 2he's just finding his buyers. He's got his own buyers list and he's making $5,000. I selling my stuff Really, yeah.
Speaker 1And then a couple of years and you're a one man show at this point.
Speaker 2Me and my wife. Right, my wife started being coming in my TC because I just was like Slinging deals all day.
Speaker 1I'm doing 10 deals a month, right yeah.
Speaker 2I'm doing two deals, three deals a week, and I'm in three or four appointments every single day. And I had no idea how to get. I just spent money on postcards and mailers.
Speaker 1No, CRM just hitting your phone? No, crm, I didn't have a.
Speaker 2CRM until 2018. So this was six years later.
Speaker 1People are just hitting your phone. You're answering the phone going on an in-person appointment. You're locking up a contract, just old school hustling.
Speaker 2Yeah and my, I learned that I was doing it all wrong at the time. My wife goes hey, I, we don't have any files to TC, I'm all caught up on transaction coordination. Um, how can I help out on the acquisition side? And I go well, maybe you could help out on the followup. So at the time I was doing like seven, eight contracts a month on my own. And she goes into my.
Speaker 2My CRM was basically a Google drive link and I was just going through Google sheets and as the leads came in I just popped them in there just chronologically and then I go, I would segment them by the month. I'd get about two calls a day, so only about 60 leads a month. They're inbound, so I didn't have to do a lot of like lead management. So my wife then started going back the last 30 days and calling everybody I went to appointments with and said hey, I noticed that you sold the house to somebody else other than my husband. My name is Laura. You met my husband a couple of weeks ago. Why didn't you sell the house to my husband? And they were like he never followed up Because I was literally just going to the next appointment, pulling the easiest hanging fruit on the planet.
Speaker 2So my wife started doing follow-up and transaction coordination for me and in 2018, I then was like, oh, I should maybe learn how to do this. This was seven years ago. And then I got a good partner, got some good team members and I scaled out of the business in less than two years. Wow yeah. And then COVID hit and I started buying a lot more, started doing tons of acquisition outside of state so apartment buildings, rv parks, mobile home parks, stuff like that Things that cashflow on day one that I could just buy with seller finance.
Speaker 1Back then were you doing seller financing, so off rip you were doing.
Speaker 2Yeah, like right, finance stuff, yeah. So what happened was, um, bethany tells me, when I'm working with Bethany, bethany tells me go down to this title rep, open up your contracts with her. She'll just get everything done. And I meet this lady. Her name's Eileen Brown. She's now retired as of a year ago and I kept her in the business an extra 10 years because I just I brought up her name so much that everybody would just open up their files with her. She was like the Oracle of creative finance.
Speaker 2So I went down there this is my first month in the business and I open up three contracts and I sell them all at Bethany. I make 50 grand my first month in the business. First deal was 25K, next one was 15. Another one was 10. And I assigned them to Bethany. Bethany is now flipping these houses and I opened these escrow and I didn't know what that meant open escrow. I didn't know you could do it digitally.
Speaker 2So I went down to the escrow office, met the people, shook their hands. I wanted to see. You know, it's like being in your office is a magical experience. I wanted to feel that experience. So I go down there and I'm talking to Eileen. Eileen goes. Who the heck are you that you got three contracts in, like you know your first month. Who are you? That's impressive. Where are you getting your leads? I tell her she goes line them out on the whiteboard. So I pull out my laptop and I show her my Google sheet and she goes you should have six contracts in here. I'm like why? Well, why, she goes you have 20 leads. You got three of them.
Speaker 2Your conversion, like this is an escrow officer telling me this. It'd be like a closing attorney sitting down with you guys here, going you're not converting, right, she'd been an escrow officer for 40 years, bro. She was like 67 years old, she'd be an escrow officer. So she goes. Let me tell you what all my best customers are doing. They're going to all their leads that want too much money or don't have any equity. I didn't know what that meant. They're going to the ones that want too much money. They're offering seller finance and they're going to the ones with no equity and offering sub two.
Speaker 2And I go what's sub two? Wow, and now it's on my hat, like I got obsessed with it, and I I'm sitting there laying on the carpet of this escrow office, cause I was in disbelief. I was laying on the carpet, like if I laid just down in the middle. It's like if your team told me oh yeah, we're doing $60 million in revenue this month. I would want to lay down Cause I wouldn't believe you. Like it's such a big deal, like what you guys are doing is such a big deal.
Speaker 2And she tells me what sub two is. You can buy these people's houses, pace, with no money out of your pocket. You just take over their mortgage. I'm like that sounds illegal. She's like it's not. Let me show you in the Supreme Court this, the this, that and the other where it says in the IRS, she taught me, like where Fannie Freddie teaches people how to fill out these forms, and she shows me like a 15 hour. Like one week I spent 15 hours with her and she taught me everything.
Speaker 2Yeah, wow, I go back to those leads and I get three more contracts Seller finance deal. My first one is a sub two deal. Second one is a sub two deal. My third one is seller finance. Like straight up, no money, down, 0% interest. I still have it in my portfolio to this day.
Speaker 2So I'm like I, why does not everybody know this? She's like Well, I'll tell you the truth, they make the water muddy so you think it's deep. I'm like what the heck does that mean? She says the old men in this business don't want people to know about seller finance and sub two and lease options and wraparound mortgages and contract for these. They don't want you to know because they're picking up your dead leads and they're making, they're converting them and so they keep it really hush, hush. And if you want, if you find somebody that does a mentorship around this, it's like 50 to $75,000. And I'm like okay, like who are these people? She goes you don't need these people. They all use me as their escrow officer and I'm still teaching them how to do it, even though they're charging people 50K.
Speaker 2I was like how did I get so lucky to find you? Anyway, in my book that I wrote a couple of years ago, her and Bethany were like the whole first chapter and her business blew up. Everybody across the country calls her up and uses her. Anyway, I love that that. So she taught me everything I knew and anytime I ran into an issue, the escrow officer knows way more than anybody else. She's like oh yeah, offer them this and this is how you should structure the deal. I'm like how do I handle a balloon payment? Like, what if I get a? What if I get a seller that wants a balloon on their seller finance deal? That's, the seller wants a balloon. Well, either you didn't build rapport enough. I'm like an escrow officers teaching me about building rapport.
Speaker 1She's a gangster. She's a gangster dude.
Speaker 2She's God bless this woman. So she teaches me, um. One of the first things she teaches me that was like not common knowledge in the industry. Now everybody's doing it. Obviously I have a big community, so people have learned from me.
Speaker 2But, um, seller says, no problem, I'll, seller, finance my RV park to you for $5 million, but I want a five-year payout. In five years I want you to pay me all the way off, right A balloon. I'll give you 30-year payments, but I want a five-year payout, meaning your payments are affordable. They're adjusted for a 30-year loan, but at five years I want you to sell it, refinance me out or pay me off in cash, right, cool. So I go, eileen, what do I do in that situation? She goes oh, it's easy. Just create what's called a balloon extension clause. Like what is that? She says? Say in the paperwork that if the property does not appraise for the value that you bought it for plus 20%, that you can get an extra five years on the balloon in automatic defaults.
Speaker 2I'm like I can do that. She goes Pace, you can do anything. The world is so I did this thing a couple like my second year in the business. She goes let me teach you how crazy you can be about on these contracts. So I get this deal out of Atlanta and I have this lady her name's Jillian sells me a $1.3 million house. I turned into an Airbnb for like five years, no money down. And Eileen goes let's put in the documents that she has to buy you a steak dinner every time you go to Atlanta. I go I can do that in a real estate transaction. He goes yeah, it's a promissory note and the terms of your promissory note are determined between you and whoever is the other party. I'm like I can legally force her to take me to steak dinner. She goes yep, let's put it in the document. So we put it in the document.
Speaker 1You did it?
Speaker 2Yes, we did. It's on public record. So, like you can, it's the craziest thing what you can negotiate on these seller finance deals. And so she just expanded my mind, showed me what was possible, and she gave me options. You know, I I'm sure there's been times in your life where you know the option of doing 700 million dollars in loans and doing acquisitions and having a freaking office like this was not the option. It wasn't even your in your mind's eye to even have this idea. Somebody came into your life and gave you options that led down a pathway. Who, who was that for you? Who's somebody that, like, made a big difference for you? Well, I got a great business partner.
Speaker 1He's, he constantly just wants to blow things up, Scale, scale, scale, higher, higher, higher. So and I'm like, let's take it down a notch. But he's always. He's always pushing the envelope.
Speaker 2But, it was was that the thing that opened your guys's like? Why did you guys partner in the first place?
Speaker 1Well, we always wanted to create a multi-billion dollar company. Okay.
Speaker 2You're gonna do that with your lending business for sure.
Speaker 1Yeah, and when you guys first got together, it wasn't lending. No, he was actually brokering loans. Okay, he was brokering hard money, loans, and I was wholesaling houses Got it and we got together. We both wanted to do what each other. Who got you in the wholesale? Um Jamil Damji, no, no, I mean I was 19 and I was just YouTube. I was going on like bigger pocketscom. Got it Okay cool I started showing up to networking events. Spent four years trying to learn the business. Take, you know.
Speaker 2She said you could read a book about water all day long, but it ain't going to teach you to swim.
Speaker 1Exactly so. Then I met a mentor and he's like I'm like how much money do you make a year door knocking on weekends? It's like I make about half a million dollars a year. It's like can I come door knocking with you?
Speaker 2You're like show me a check for $70,000. It's like the Wolf of Wall Street thing. Yeah, I weeks. Isn't that amazing that you went four years learning, learning, learning and then it took two weeks of earning just door knocking, door knocking. So I tell people, anybody watching, right now you don't have the guts for it. I'm gonna tell you right now you're just a sissy, you're not going to do it.
Speaker 2But the reality is, if you told somebody to go door knock pre foreclosures, it's different out here a little bit, but anywhere in the country for the most part I shouldn't say that Anywhere in the country I will bet you, if you go and knock 100 pre-foreclosure doors, it's impossible for you not to find somebody that's like I will sell my house to you right now. It's impossible, 100 doors, I agree. So I had this guy. I did this on YouTube. I go. If you can prove to me out there on YouTube land, if you can prove to me you knocked 100 doors and you come to me and you did not get a deal, I will write you a check for $10,000.
Speaker 2Shut up, you did that, yeah, I did that. So it's never happened. Nobody comes to me and says, hey, I did this thing and I still. The offer's still out there. So this guy's kind of a cocky guy. We've become friends now, but this cocky guy he sees me in San Diego. Now San Diego is a challenging market. It's very similar to like Jersey and New York, right. So he comes to me at a meetup about two years ago and he goes I'm at house 96. I have four more houses to go and I still haven't gotten a deal. I'm like, wow, like there's, you're sharp, you're smart, you're articulate, like you're, you brush your teeth, you don't look like an idiot. You might be the first person I have to write a $10,000 check to. So I go here's my cell phone number, let's coordinate, I'll get you the $10,000 check. That day he goes and knocks his 98th door, gets a check, gets a deal. He makes like 40,000 bucks up I did.
Speaker 2I just did a podcast with him we're releasing in a week. He's like I almost got paces ten thousand dollars, but I instead I got 40, but you got, so your first deal was a foreclosure or what yeah, I was going to share a sale.
Speaker 1Had a crow and a t-shirt on joggers so good just talked to the guy. I was like, dude, don't get foreclosed on, we could.
Speaker 2We could make sure that you walk away with some money here but you didn't have that confidence at that level, right like you didn't say it that way, I were you timid, or you've always been confident I've always been.
Speaker 1The guy was just a regular dude yeah he had a beer in his hand. I want I had a beer shirt on, like let's just talk. And then I called my mentor. He came driving in two hours later, signed a contract right there as well I think, that's the thing that people really need to understand.
Speaker 2The game really is easy, but in the very beginning you need somebody that will buy the deal Right, like you had the same thing I had. Yes, literally, you had a Bethany, I had a Bethany. And people hate to hear that because they're like I want to figure it out on my own, okay, well, you tried to figure it out for four years. I tried to figure it out for seven years, bro, I was like demoralized to my wife, like I would tell my wife I'm going to get into real estate, I'm going to get into real estate, I'm going to get into real estate.
Speaker 2Men out there, you know the number one thing women want in their life not a good looking guy, not a guy that's doing $700 million in loans. Every woman wants a guy that does what he says he's going to do Integrity, integrity, number one thing. Everything else out beyond that is a cherry on top right. So I had gotten to the point where my wife was like, yeah, sure, yeah, you're going to do this thing. That's the worst thing.
Speaker 2A guy and it was me, it was all on me, it didn't. It wasn't six months, it wasn't a year, it wasn't three years of me lying it wasn't five years, it was like at the seven year mark I could feel, oh, you're going to another meetup tonight, oh, you're doing another thing, you're doing a da da da. Okay, got it See you later. And she was just like whatever, it's seven years of no anything. And so I could feel that. So what did I do? I gave up. And then, a year later, bethany came into my life and I got my first deal in two weeks. Same thing as you, dude. It's crazy. It was two weeks from the day Bethany told me to the day that I had a signed contract. Wow, Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it's amazing. So how long did you knock?
Speaker 1doors. I knocked doors while I was in corporate America for six months and I picked up like five contracts.
Speaker 2I'll just go every.
Speaker 1Saturday I was like, what am I doing? I'm going to make more money on these deals than I am working 80 hours a week in private equity. Right, Let me just go for it. And then the first year I got I was just door knocking and cold calling foreclosure. I got 26 deals Wow that's impressive.
Speaker 2Just sheriff sale, just sheriff sales, your guys' sheriff sales. You guys have a redemption period, right?
Speaker 1Yeah, we do so.
Speaker 2it's like so you get the contract, you have to wait for that redemption period, all that kind of stuff. It's like three months or something, or you don't remember. So, ours is six months.
Speaker 1Six months of redemption.
Speaker 2Yeah, so every state's different. I don't know what your guys' is.
Speaker 1I think it's a 30-day redemption period.
Speaker 2Oh, that's great, Like, if it's 30 days, then that makes sense. Now, our sheriff sales are different than our auction sales, right? So sheriff sales are only done in Arizona. If it's an HOA foreclosure or a tax lien foreclosure, okay. If it's the mortgage that's foreclosing, you go through the trustee, that's a law firm no sheriff is involved, really, yeah, so it's like courthouse steps.
Speaker 2I buy the house, the freaking police, go to that person's house the next day and they're kicking them out of the house. Like arizona is the wild, wild west, wow, texas is even worse, bro. Like so, sheriff sales in arizona. We stay away from them unless you're willing to wait that redemption period, but you obviously. We have six months, you guys have 30 days.
Speaker 1Yeah, very rarely do they actually redeem here.
Speaker 2Yeah, it makes sense, you're in and out but we were trying to go in there flipping or was he keeping something Flipping them Okay?
Speaker 1Yeah, I would. I would try to go to these guys before they would get foreclosed on and just be like you have a hundred grand in equity here, you have three weeks to take action, like let's do something, let's make sure you get something here.
Speaker 2And um, knocking doors is not for the faint of heart. Um, until you have somebody backing you up, you know what I'm saying. Like you know you have a buyer, that's there. You know you have. You know you guys have an, you have an info product. They have an anti coaching mentality of like, oh, people are selling coaching. Yeah, dude, so does Harvard. Like Harvard also is selling education. And how many people go and get a college degree that end up going? I didn't want to be in corporate America. Literally 95% of people. So what really people need to understand is, like who is going to buy your first deal? So, if you guys have not done your first real estate transaction, ask the question, don't ask the question how do I get my first deal? Say who's going to buy my first deal and that will be your first step. Literally, I was your first step, it was my first step.
Door Knocking Success Stories
Speaker 1That's a good point. You have the confidence now to know that when you make an offer it's going to stick and you can close.
Speaker 2I got my proof of funds. Yeah, I got my contract. I don't have to learn contracts. You're telling me I don't have to learn contracts because your mentor is going to come down here and just get the thing done. And, more importantly, I have no idea what a transaction coordination looks like. I have no idea what X, y, z, pdq I don't know what it feels like. I don't know that contracts can fall out of escrow. I don't know any of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1But if I have a buyer that's seasoned, is like walking through the whole entire thing and just do it for you. I have a question on that. You bring that up because I accidentally started doing that for my mentees. Yeah, yeah, like I just had a bunch of people from New Jersey lock up a deal under 30 days, make $20,000, $30,000, $40,000., and I look back and I was like, wait a second. Everyone that got a deal in my community seemingly in under 30 days were all New Jersey people that made a cold call, didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1I sent one of my vps out to go on appointment with them. They lock it up. I put up all the money, we close the deal and then they they took the profit and they learned the game right. So I was like why don't I just open this up for every single person in my community? Yeah, set up an appointment, my team will go out, lock it up, we'll we'll handle everything and then we'll partner on the deal. Right? Is that what you've done? It's exactly what I've done.
Speaker 2It's exactly Now. I've done it. I hear. Here's why, when people say Pace has built a crazy community, this is what I've done, okay. So, like yesterday, I came in, I spoke for Aspire. I spoke for Aspire, I'm there with, like, mr Wonderful, you know, kevin O'Leary. I'm with David Goggins, and David Goggins sees me and says Pace, what's up, what are you doing? Blah, blah, blah. I'm like I'm going to a meetup with my community. He's like again, with these meetups, you know type of thing, I spent more time with my community yesterday in Jersey than I did at the Aspire tour that I was paid to speak at.
Speaker 2I use the speaking engagements to go spend time with my people, and then what I do is I build up leadership in every city. Okay, just like Jesus would with his disciples, you treat it like a church. Okay, you've got the leader of the church and then you set it up where you have apostles, or the 12 apostles, and then you have people that work underneath them, and so Jesus can't touch everybody by himself. That's why he had a team right. So you go out and you get deputies, so to speak. So in every single city I have about 100 leaders. I mean, we're 30,000, bro, I better have at least 5,000 leaders. So in every major metro which is about, I'd say, 150 major metros, I have probably, on average, 100 leaders. So about 30% of my community is somebody who will go.
Speaker 2I will buy your deal, I will fund your deal, I will go on your appointment, like that's how big we are and the way I cultivate, that is, I literally travel around the country. So, like on October 15th, I leave with my wife and my kids, we pull our kids out of school and I will go to 120 cities back to back to back to back to back to back to back, and I will meet 100,000 people in person. And 30,000 of those people will be my students and I will meet them face to face, shake their hand, make sure they all get a deal. And the way I structure those meetups is I go, anybody's included. Like, even if you're not a student, come out to the meetup, they're all free. You'll have to buy a taco because we'll have a taco truck. Well, you have to buy a taco.
Speaker 2So, creativenationtourcom, check us out. I will go to. I'm even going to Fargo, north Dakota, sioux Falls, iowa places I never even knew existed, right, and what I do is I go four hours every night, so from five to nine, five to seven, we're doing deals. So what we do is we go, all right, we're doing direct to agent outreach. What we're going to do is we're going to find, you know, 500 listings that have been on the market over a hundred days.
Speaker 1Wait, sorry, 500 listings that have been over On the market for over a hundred days.
Speaker 2So agents are in pain, they don't know what the heck to do. We'll then filter those down to low equity, which will probably be out 40% of those. So we'll have 40 houses that have no equity, that have been listed for over a hundred days, and we submit sub two offers and what ends up happening is you have 10 teams and all 10 teams work on those four houses on each team totaling the 40. And we'll everybody walks out with at least one, maybe two contracts on every single team. So you walk away with 20 contracts in a four-hour period. Like, think about it. They've already been on the market 100 days. You already know the game very well. They already know their client doesn't have any equity. We already know that their interest rate is 3% or lower. And we're going to them and go let us solve your problem. Boom, the buyers are on the teams. So I'm not going to buy the deals because I don't buy. In Fargo, north Dakota, the Fargo, the in Fargo, let's say Chris near, like I know every member that's a leader personally, right, hang out with them, go to dinner with them, right, I'm a lunatic. So if I go to Fargo, north Dakota, I know Chris near and I know Preston doll and I know all the other leaders. I will pair them up on teams where newbies that have never done a deal before will be underneath them. That is their Bethany right or your mentor, and so I'll go in there, I'll create the energy, I'll stir everything up. We go very fast and we make sure that everybody in the community does a deal, and the way we make sure they do that is we pair them up with somebody that's going to go on the appointment or do the thing, or has the proof of funds, or you know the same way. You're doing it. Wow, now how you cultivate.
Speaker 2That is hard because like being you know, being Jesus ain't easy the Jesus of real estate or whatever you want to call it Going and leading a team is not easy. Leading a team is not easy. Leader. Leadership is sacrifice and the sacrifice is I got to take my personal time taking care of myself a lot of times to make sure that I go out and I do the hard thing. So, for example, like if you went out to your lending team right now and you slaying deals all day long for a week and you set the new record for the team. Would your team perform better or worse? Probably better, way better. Right, because the leader who they look up to is like this is what's possible. So I have to go out in person. This is the thing that the algorithm can't do, youtube can't do, instagram can't do. I have to go in person and go.
Speaker 2Do we do 39 Zooms a week in sub two? 14 hours a day of live support every single day for a lifetime? But the number one thing is what you and the way you and I got our first deals, and so the way I set up sub two was hey, we can do all the things that everybody else is doing, but the one thing that was the difference for me is that somebody was face to face with me. I could smell their freaking breath, bethany, and she made sure I was. She was on the appointment with me signing the contracts, right. And it's the same thing If you just tell your Lent, your LOs, right, you tell your dudes down here, go sell a loan, and they've never done it before. It's not going to happen, yeah. So why would you do that for these guys? But not so you did a great job that nobody no other educator does that they're like watch the videos.
Speaker 1I did it by. It was by accident. I was like this is, this works, it does. It's incredible what you've done, by the way, it's incredible what you've done. By the way, it's hard. It is it's very, very hard. So how do you? So you go out.
Speaker 1I think this is what makes your community really special, is that you? I don't know a single. I used to. My slogan was if we'll hold your hand, but if you're not keeping up with us holding your hand, we're going to drag your ass to the finish line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keeping up with us holding your hand, we're gonna drag your ass to the finish line. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1And that for like nine months of my life, I literally did like nine one-on-ones with every student, um, every single day, just because I was like, yeah, we got to make sure everyone succeeds. And then it started to grow a little too fast and I was like I can't do one-on-ones for the rest of my life, as much as I. Honestly, I loved the one-on-ones. They were the one of the most rewarding things. I'd be praying with the students, I'd be giving them life advice, would be top talking shop, and everyone would consistently make progress. And then it just came to a point where I was like I can't, I can't do this anymore. I I got. I got other businesses that make way more money. This is the return.
Speaker 2My hourly rate isn't there, it's actually irresponsible for you to do it if you think about it, so it's like I can hear it in your voice. The same thing with me is like why I don't do a lot of one-on-ones is because it's not responsible for you to do one-on-ones. Why? Because you have a team of people that have families, they have wives, they have people that are relying on them to make good decisions, and one of those decisions was to work for you, which means they are relying on you to make good decisions, which is not putting all your time and energy into one-on-ones. That doesn't make them money. So balancing that is really really hard.
Creative Financing Strategies
Speaker 2The big difference for me is that Jersey is not, you know, for your situation, jersey is like your market. I'm nationwide, so for me, I can buy RV parks, multifamily mobile home parks, businesses. I'll build 5,000 car washes in the next 10 years. That's crazy. It'll be a $20 billion valuation, wow, yeah, that's. My big thing is I just partnered with a gentleman who just sold. He sold four companies to Warren Buffett in 2016 for $7.7 billion. Him and I are partnering on car wash development.
Speaker 1Sick.
Speaker 2For every 100 car washes you build. Build, you're valued at a billion right there. Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1So think about this what's it cost to build a car wash?
Speaker 2uh, the cost is it's three million dollars if I was going to do it with cash. But the way I'm doing is with creative finance. So I get the land under contract option option it. I go to the developer. The developer partners with us on the development. He gets paid more for getting paid late, if that makes sense. So he comes in with his lines of credit, he does the development, we stabilize it. Then we go get a refinance. Maybe I'll use your lending company, maybe you guys can create a product for me and we'll refinance after we're stabilized and we're in the deal for no money out of pocket.
Speaker 1No money out of pocket, but your total basis is like 5 million now.
Speaker 2Our total basis on the loan is about 5 million bucks 5 million. But our cost of acquisition, development, all that stuff, we're about 3 million bucks.
Speaker 1Gotcha, yeah Gotcha. Out of pocket almost $0.
Speaker 2$0.
Speaker 1Zero equity multiple is like insane.
Speaker 2It's infinite.
Speaker 1Infinite, yeah, so you're making $50 million on a hundred car washes. I'm making 500, $500 million on 50 car a hundred car washes. That you came out Zero dollars for.
Speaker 2And then the cool thing is like I'll go to the, I go to my students and I go hey, I will give you 10% of this car wash for bringing the land to me. So I teach them the creative finance. So they go negotiate the land, they go to the seller and go hey, seller, you want this. You have this half acre for sale for 300 grand. We'll pay you 400 grand, but we want to pay you in 24 months.
Speaker 1This is insane.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's creative finance. It's like forcing somebody to take me to a steak dinner in Atlanta, Georgia. So they go tell the seller hey, we'll pay you 25% over list, but we want you to give us 24 months to pay you no interest because we're bundling it all involved. We'll give you 400 grand. They subordinate, we bring in our development partner.
Speaker 1He brings the first lien construction financing, builds it out.
Speaker 2Yep, and I'm not bringing any of that stuff to the table. He builds it out and what does he want? He's the developer. So what he wants is he wants me to not nickel and dime him on pricing, and he wants to throw an extra $100,000 of cost in there so I don't have to bring any money to the table. So it's crazy. It's the smart way to do it.
Speaker 2Yeah. So think about this If I can develop those anywhere it doesn't, then I'm not relegated to one market. I can be in any market at any time. So for you, in order to do that with your mentees, there's two ways for you to do that. You either a find leaders in every market that it benefits them. To go hey, todd, you're in Houston, I don't buy in Houston. You're in Houston, I'm going to make you the leader. I'm going to let everybody go work with you and bird dog deals to you, like we hung out with April Elias yesterday. Shout out to April. April's my leader in Philly. She drove up from Philly to hang out and she goes.
Speaker 2I bought four deals last week just from newbies that joined sub two. I bought four deals from them because they bring me deals. They don't know what to do with them. I close on them. Now she's doing crazy stuff that I normally wouldn't do, like I would. I would normally just pay my newbie a five or $10,000 fee. I'd go flip the property, april's, like you bring me a flip, I'll fund it, run it, do everything and I'll split it with you 50, 50. Wow, so some of these newbies are making 50 G's. Bro. It's cool, it's really cool, oh she's, it's really cool, oh she's. That's incredible. But I make no money on those transactions.
Speaker 2So what's challenging is like how can I benefit from the overall ecosystem to justify taking time away from my dscr lending business? Yeah, the way I justify is I go what's the asset class I want to build as fast as possible and for me that's car washes and rb parks and I just have them bird dog land to me and I give them eight percent ownership of that car wash, so they'll get. They bring me the land. They get paid no money until we're stabilizing cash flowing. They get a check for like 3,500 bucks a month for about two, three, four years. Then we exit. They'll get a check for 400,000 bucks just for finding the land. That's absurd, bro, it's stupid. So when people when you hear people like oh, pays his community is insane, it's because I've strategically planned ways that I can make money like you. Look at like one of my info products loses 20 grand a month but I still run it. Why? Because I make way more money with my students than I.
Speaker 1Yes, the value that you're, that they get and you get from just being awesome it's the greatest.
Speaker 2I mean it's lunacy.
Speaker 1Like my partner was just telling me about this he goes, you, he goes. It's all about the community, it's all about the he goes. We just haven't figured out how to create the community where the everyone feeds off the ecosystem.
Speaker 2Yeah, spend a day with me in my Phoenix office and you'll see how I set it up and you'll just be like this is the most insane thing on the planet. Wow, now, how do I scale my DSCR loan company? I have 30,000 people that use my DSCR loan line Like I just go hey guys, I'll fund all your deals, I'll do all your deals, I'll even do your private money. I'll do the first lien position with my DSCR loan company. I'll even go in second lien position if I'm on, if I'm named on the LLC or or. It won't even be a second. I know this is over some people's heads. I'll if my, if the product I'm selling off, right, I'm selling my loan off and the person buying that doesn't want to see a second lien behind it. I just named myself on the LLC that if they ever default, I take the whole asset over, so I'm protected. Essentially, I'm in a stronger position than I would be if I was in first position right, the owner is in a stronger position than first lean position.
Speaker 2Yeah, right, so I just position myself on the operating agreement saying if you default, I take over the whole entire llc. So I've got the safety and security. I'll give them first lean dscr and I'll come in and bring second lean at like 18, 19, 20 percent. That's, there's stupid money in that. Private money lending is, as you already know. It's a great business. It's a great business and what it is is like people. What was our biggest hurdle when we first jumped in business or the real estate side? Where does the money come from? You became the answer. Like, think about how cool that is, dude. You became the answer yeah. Like to your biggest problem, you became the answer yeah, like to your biggest problem, you became the answer where does the money come from?
Speaker 2yeah well, here right here I got. I built a whole entire organization here.
Speaker 1You guys have done a freaking great job, dude, it's pretty cool eric's not here right now, but he's done a great job for sure, eric, you've done a great job.
Speaker 2Dude we're proud of you.
Speaker 1But the real money is in the community. Like becoming a bigger like what you have right now is better than BiggerPockets.
Speaker 2Without a question. Hey, BiggerPockets, I love you, but I took their lunch a long time ago.
Speaker 1Yeah, what you've built is incredible. We're trying to figure out how to do something like that.
Speaker 2They're a forum.
Speaker 2Right. I'll tell you my experience with BiggerPockets when I was a BiggerPockets user. The people on BiggerPockets in the forums are freaking rude. They're hateful. They're they're licensed people that are pissed off that non-licensed people are making a bunch of money. And there are a bunch of people using traditional real estate thinking they know more than anybody else.
Speaker 2Guys, great, you've been in business for 30,. Like they'll go out of their way to spend all their time telling you how long they've been in business. Congratulations, you went to kindergarten 30 years in a row. Like you, telling me you're an agent for 30 years. Tells me you've been in the business 27 years longer than you should have been. Like nobody should be an agent for 30 years, okay, um, and it's just. I mean, do you not agree with that? Like, grow, it's time to graduate from kindergarten, okay? So my experience with bigger pockets is they were always rude to me in the forums and they would say we're the bigger pockets community. No, you're not. You're a bigger pockets forum. Who's the leader of your community? Where does the tone come from? Anytime they have an influencer on that platform that gets too much power, they get rid of them. Brandon Turner, david Green, rob Abasolo. I could keep going on. They got rid of they got.
Speaker 1I didn't know. I thought there was like an amicable. They just booted them.
Speaker 2I love that, with no warning, rob abasola is one of the smartest, funniest, most entertaining guys on the planet. They got rid of jamil. They got like jamil had just launched his wholesaling book with them and they were starting. He was starting to get a ton of love and a ton of whatever else. It's like man. Well, we can't, just we can't. What are they fearful of? They're fearful, fearful of brandon turner 2.0. Brandon turner was so good for BiggerPockets.
Speaker 1Dude Brandon was the reason I got into real estate.
Speaker 2Everybody. So why would you ever let that guy leave? Why would you ever let that guy leave, even have him come back and maybe be a board member, whatever else? It's because a private equity company bought BiggerPockets and they lost their soul. A lot of people don't know this that BiggerPockets has been purchased by multiple private equity companies, like it's exchanged hands two or three times. Who even know? I don't even know who the owner is anymore, but I do know that there's incredible people there that are just missing. They're just missing community and missing actual connection, and there needs to be a vibration of culture. Telling you, telling me you have a webpage where people go on there and bash each other and make fun of wholesalers is not a great way, and even david green I've teased him about this a little bit, but even david green on that pot, on bigger pockets, would go. Wholesaling is basically borderline illegal, first off not even close not even remotely close.
Speaker 2It's so. It's so ill-informed, right? So they just hate wholesalers, they hate the off market thing and I'm like do you know that most whole fix and flippers buy their deals from wholesalers Like I don't know where? That just tells me you're not doing much business If you don't understand how important a wholesaler is to a local market.
Speaker 1Oh, they haven't listened to a bigger pockets podcast in a long time. Is that how it's gone? They won't talk about creative finance. They taught me about creative finance. They bigger. Brandon turner came out with the book how to buy uh properties with little to no money down the yellow book. He was the first real estate he was bigger pockets and he's.
Building a 30,000-Strong Community
Speaker 2He's a good friend of mine, I love him. I think rob abbasolo is probably one of the most entertaining. Anyway, I look bigger pockets, I think can be revived if somebody comes in and steps in with some soul and like actually connects with people. Yeah, it's like is it you go to church? Why do you love you? What do you love about your church? Like jesus is cool, so let's put jesus to the side. Do you have a great pastor or minister? Just a community in there, who's?
Speaker 2leading it. I got a great pastor. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's the. That's the key. Who's leading it? Where's the? A great pastor? Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's the. That's the key. Who's leading it? Where's the tone going? What is that person doing to forge it ahead? What ideas? It's just like you. The culture of this company depends on you. It's not the product, it's you and your partner. Actually, do you guys have a great culture here? Okay, so just because you have a company doesn't mean you have culture, and so when you're building a community, it comes down to the same thing. It's the impossible stuff, the non-scalable thing. So, like, how do you scale the unscalable right? You have already hit the resistance of like crap. How do I stretch myself? Well, dude, you're an amazing leader. What did Jesus do? Disciples.
Speaker 2He created disciples, and so what you guys, all you have to do I hate to turn this into a religious podcast, but we did pray at the beginning, so you know I guess it already was. So you, what you've got to just got to do is go. What is the asset type you want to go and scale? That would be national. So you give your students nationally the ability to do deals with you. No matter what we did in sub two, we did over $10 billion in transactions. I only did 100 million of them, so it's less than 1%. So 99% of transactions are not happening with me. However, I am still participating at a significant level. I set the tone. There's always an opportunity that any student in the whole entire community can do a deal with me, but I'm on a very specific asset type that they're not all focused on.
Speaker 2The beautiful thing about creative finance is you can do anything. So we buy businesses, we buy. We even had somebody buy a train depot the other day. They buy hotels. They buy RV parks, mobile home parks, apartment buildings like crazy single family co-living Airbnb. So, like you want to learn something in real estate, our creative finance community obviously does it. So I am only on one of the hundred niches. I'm one, but I'm nationwide. So now my students have the ability to submit deals to me and do those deals with me, and I do it. In a way it's like I will fund the land, I will do the construction, I will run the management, I will handle the branding, I will launch the product, I will get the recurring revenue going, I will stabilize it and qualify for the loan for the stabilization. I will then start sending you a monthly check for the 8% that you own and then, when we exit that deal, you'll get a check for the exit of the 8% you own. You'll get a check for 400 grand.
Speaker 1So you've basically found an operator in the bit in a specific asset class that knows that our own run and operate specific niche things across the country.
Speaker 2I also have a traveling asset manager named Heidi Silva student, so they think about this too. If you really wanted to build a strong community, recruit people from your community that are better on your team than they would be on your be on their own, and one of the only ways to figure that out is go build that out Now. I'm a lunatic.
Speaker 1You are a lunatic. I've never met a man more committed to his community than you my entire life. It's crazy.
Speaker 2Last night we were in Hoboken and 300 people out there till 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock at night.
Speaker 1I wish I knew about this. I would have been there.
Speaker 2Every one of these people. I take photos with them, which I don't care about the photo they do. We get past the photos and I talk to every single one of them. I know Shanice. She's a woman married to another woman. She's worried about what's going on with her wife. I'm talking to Gabriel Gabriel. I'm talking to Gabriel Gabriel has a problem with his minister. Blah blah, blah blah. I'm understanding everybody's situation. One, it makes me sharper on educating them. Two, I can create products and services that actually brings value to them right. And then I can also go. What lender are you guys using? Why aren't you using my company.
Speaker 2Oh well, your girls didn't get back to me. Oh, thank you. Live feedback, that's good. Oh well, this person charges one point, you charge two. Okay, well, I'm not going to change that. You keep going with that idiot that's willing to do it for one point. But you want to build a community that will actually you can benefit them. Are there crappy lenders out there, crappy DSCR lenders? Okay, so you have a responsibility to get your product out to the masses, right, because there's people being underserved. So why not just build your market? Now for us, what we're doing is here's the next thing for us. This is cool and it's going to take us another two years.
Speaker 2I'm going away from community. I'm going to another level that's never talked about. Nobody's ever talked about it. You ready for this? I'm ready.
Speaker 2I brought community to real estate. Nobody was talking about Alex Ramos. He sends me a text, like four years ago, and he's like you hacked the system, bro. You figured out what people really need. They really need community. So he goes and buys school and he starts calling them school communities. I'm like Alex a school community is not a community. That's called an HOA because they're getting billed every single month, bro, like so you want a community. They got to pay a one-time fee. They're in for life, and why would you kick them out? By the way, that's how I built mine. If somebody learns from me, are they going to be better or worse in two years? Better, way better. Yeah, why would I ever want that person to leave? They will buy the deals from the person that joins today, so why would I ever want to have a monthly recurring model if I'm actually building a real community? Right, this person joined, they paid their dues, they're in Now. The reason they get to stick around is they're providing value backwards. Yeah, they're a disciple. Right, they're helping the new people. They're bringing people into the fold. So, for us, we are building an economy that you join there's, not there's. You get your lenders, you get your deals, you get your partners, you get your TCs, you get your anybody you want to recruit for lead management, any anything. You get everything you want all in the same exact platform and it's a social system.
Speaker 2So like, let's say that I do a deal and I'm a student. If I join your community right now, can I go in there and find a student that's done a deal in the last week with verifiable HUDs that's been uploaded into a platform. He has social proof that other students have done deals with them. The answer is no, it doesn't exist. So I'm building that. I'm building a thing where a student can join in New Jersey or anywhere in the country Fargo. They type in Fargo, pulls up every student in Fargo. Then they filter by multifamily, then it distills down to the multifamily people, then it goes to the people that have done deals in the last six months and it goes here's the people that have done deals in the last six months. And oh, and this person's currently hiring.
Speaker 2I'm building a full-on economy. Smokes, yeah, I will destroy the. When I say bigger pockets, I'm coming for your lunch. That's crazy. It's crazy. That's insane. And it here's the cool thing you learn.
The Sub-Two Economy Vision
Speaker 2Let's say you join sub two or you know, in your communities there's an idea for you. I want everybody to build communities, not forums. I don't want people doing the crap that they did in the past. I got burned by educators in the past that charged me $50,000 and had no deliverables that were actually helpful. They're not bad people, they just had a bad model. The right model is what you were doing, bro, like holding their hands doing the thing and loving on people. That's the right model.
Speaker 2It sucks. Being a leader sucks, dude. It does. Yeah, but you are a leader. You're freaking. You're a phenom, right, you and your partner are phenoms and you have a. You have this insane calling to go and change people's lives. You know that. You've known that for a long time. So, and, by the way, again, bigger pockets. I love you so much and I think what will happen is bigger pockets will reinvent and they'll see the error in the way of not building actual community. But what's going to happen is in less than 12 months, I will have I you will start hearing me talk about I'm the sub 2 economy, meaning you join. There's not a single thing you can't find within 30 seconds and it's not just a find, it's ver. Do you have students that borrow money from each other in your community? I'm sure it's happening.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm sure it's happening. I'm not aware of it. I'm not tracking.
Speaker 2So we are aware of it. I encourage it, but we have like safety course and ethics course and stuff to make sure that they're doing it the right way. We're creating a social system where it's like, if I want to raise money in the community, I will have badges and awards that say I've paid my lenders back. Here's a video uploaded for my lender that says this person pays their money back. Here's the proof. Da, da, da, da da.
Speaker 2So now what you'll do is you'll create a point, a points-based system that shows people like here's the most vetted borrowers. So it creates a gamification and then, once a year, whoever hits 100,000 points in my community gets invited out to like Tony Robbins house or something cool like that, and I'll go spend a million dollars creating this special event for them, for the people that earned rewards. Guess what it costs them Nothing. What it does is it brings deals to me, it brings loans to me and it is a full on economy. So I like I will take over all of real estate in less than three, four years. That's incredible. Yeah, and you guys, you guys are welcome to copy everything I do. We're going to try our very best.
Speaker 2People with people. People with a good heart should be doing it Right, Like I'm sure you've. Before you were the creative director, I'm sure you worked for people that you didn't like working with, right Cool. So like, think about how you've changed people's lives, dude, like you deserve to get you. You people deserve for you to go bigger.
Speaker 1Thanks, man.
Speaker 2Yeah, thank you so.
Speaker 1I'm going to part, I'm going to side with your partner and say let's go, triple this whole thing. I just got to slow down a little bit, you do, you do, and what about?
Speaker 2So you have kids.
Speaker 1No, why not? I just turned 30.
Speaker 2How long have you guys been together? A little over a year and a half, okay, good, a year and a half, alright, cool.
Speaker 1She's the best, she's the best, but she doesn't want kids. She doesn't want kids For another, like four years. I'm gonna have to Freeze my sperm. This is.
Speaker 2Tell me, tell me, vaman, no, my sperm. Is she Hispanic?
Speaker 1She's Hispanic, yeah, 24. She's a little younger.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, she's young, yeah, so I? Here's the thing you are ready for kids. It makes sense that she's not quite ready for kids. I didn't, my wife and I didn't have kids, so she was 32 and I was 36, so like you got time yeah wow, dude, so half asian, half hispanic yeah, um, good for you, bro.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm the the black sheep of the family oh, you're the one.
Speaker 2You're the one asian that shows up to a dominican party dude. Koreans are the most racist people on planet earth.
Speaker 1Oh, you know I lived in korea for a couple years, did you? Yeah, I knocked.
Speaker 2I was a missionary for two years in koreans are the most racist people on planet earth. Oh, you know, I lived in korea for a couple years, did you? Yeah, I knocked. I was a missionary for two years in korea, I not. That's where I learned how to knock doors shut, I speak speaking right korean, yeah no dude yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, I mean not as well as I used to wow. I was a translator for for years. You lived in korea, door knocked as a missionary yeah, I knocked two years I knocked 89 000 doors in korea.
Speaker 1Door knocked as a missionary.
Speaker 2Yeah, I knocked two years I knocked 89 000 doors in korea to sell jesus door to door in korea. I lived in seoul, I lived in. I didn't, I still haven't been to like busan, I haven't been all the way down there, but like 89 000 doors yeah, documented, verified 89 000 doors.
Speaker 2You know how many people I baptized from knocking doors? Zero, but I kept doing it anyway. I baptized people, people, but I baptized. It was interesting, like what I did. It's actually kind of shows up in the way I build my community. So the way I baptized 18 people in Korea, koreans are really hard, like they're so ultra Catholic or they're Buddhist right. So like going having them convert to Mormonism I'm a Mormon is a big deal right and although we believe in Christ and we're Christian, it's like you all aren't Christian.
Speaker 2Like, yeah, we are. We believe Christ is the Redeemer. We believe in Christ's sacrifice for us.
Speaker 2You know, we believe all the same things you all believe in. Yeah, yeah, we just have some other weird beliefs, like Joseph Smith found some golden things in New York City and some other weird stuff, but we believe all that. We believe in the King James Bible. We believe all the same stuff, anyway. So I baptized 18 people, but the way I baptized those people is I went to active members of the church and I was like, hey, how do we get the energy of this Our? We call our churches wards. What do you guys call your church?
Speaker 1You call them wards yeah.
Speaker 2Like I go to my ward building. My ward meets at this time. My ward members, members, my fellow ward members, what do you guys call your? Call yours, uh, just church members, your congregation, congregation, okay, cool, that would be so our we, we also use the word congregation, but we use a word called ward. Okay, like because we have one church and five different wards meet at that same church at different times okay, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2So I would go to the ward. I go how do we get the vibration up? And they're like, well, I don't know, like there's a lot of members that have left in the last couple of years and it's just not as fun. You know, you know, uh, this person left and that person left, and blah, blah, blah. I go, cool, do you have a list of all the members in the town? I'm going to reactivate existing members. So I would go out and knock on the existing doors of members that got baptized a year ago or two years ago and go hey, I'm new to the ward, I'm the new missionary in the ward. We have a basketball game on Monday. I'd love to have you come out to basketball. So I would trick people into basketball, from basketball to get back into Jesus, yeah, cause that's what works. People want friends, they want to be connected, yeah, and what ended up happening is I just started getting referrals. People are like dude, I'm going to bring my friend to the basketball game on Monday, wow, and I baptized everybody through basketball.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, not even knocking doors. But here's what was interesting about guys. He hasn't done a podcast in a year, so don't judge me for talking about whatever the hell I want to talk about. Just go, go for it. Yeah, it's fun. So what was interesting is, if I stopped, so I'm not getting any baptisms from knocking doors, right? Yeah, I'm 20 years old, I'm in korea, barely speaking korean, and it wasn't until elder chun, one of my missionaries. He did not speak english and I was paired up with a guy that was born in korea, only spoke korean, refused to say a word to me in english. He forced me to get really good at korean. Wow, yeah, but it's like biblical.
Speaker 1Korean is anyway, whatever oh the hard, it's the hard crap, yeah.
Speaker 2So I kind of talk like an idiot. So I we would go knock doors and then we would not.
Speaker 2We would see zero success from knocking doors yeah okay, and then what would happen is, all of a sudden, my I'd quit, i'd'd go, I'm not going to knock doors anymore, I'm going to go focus on the one thing that brings in baptism, which is reigniting the community. Yeah, okay, and I'd go focus on this, and then baptisms would go to zero. It was like the Lord told me you need to be grinding every day and showing me that you're worthy of these blessings. And so, anytime I paused door knocking, which I never baptized out of 89,000 doors never baptized one time. It was just a great lesson for me.
Speaker 2So, like you got to chop wood and carry water every freaking day, yeah, you know, and I'm sure that there's times where, like your guys might question something, or maybe when the events you guys go to, it's weird how you'll be blessed with the weirdest outside things because you're doing the thing you know you're supposed to be doing, you know what I'm saying and you think, oh well, I should deviate and go focus on these things. Your lending company could be an example. Like we go to an event, we're with our cowboy hats, we're the wild guys, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but it wasn't somebody at the event that maybe uses your lending company. It might be a referral to a such and such that makes a deal happen, or something, whatever, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, I don't know the perfect example for you guys, but I just learned, like whatever the KPI is that the Lord tells me I need to be doing, I'm going to do it every day because I know that the blessings I'm getting from this other angle are coming as a reward from doing this thing.
Speaker 1What is your number one KPI?
Leadership Philosophy and Legacy Building
Speaker 2Currently yeah, oh, it depends. I have nine companies, the number one KPI. The number one obsession I have that I'm driving for that like gets me up in the morning is I have a team of women that run most of my companies and I want all of them to retire. And so, for me, if every deal I buy, I put 20% into an employee pool and I give them shadow equity, which means if you leave or you get fired during that time period, you lose your equity. So stick around, do your job, let's go, drive the company forward. But as that 20 matures, that goes into a pool for anybody that sticks around, and so they vest at like five, seven years, really, yeah, yeah. So a lot of them are single moms that like had a lady, her husband died, other ladies, whatever happened to them in their lives. I'm like I want to retire you.
Speaker 1Can you explain that to me a little bit more?
Speaker 2So you got, let's say, I buy an RV park. I buy an RV park for $5 million. I'm buying my stuff on creative finance. We need to talk about how I got the. I didn't get a loan. I obviously the seller, seller financed to me 5 million bucks. That's my basis in the deal. Yeah, 20% of that would be a million bucks, yeah, right. So what I'm doing to them is I'm saying, hey, as this asset appreciates and goes up in value, you guys will get. They get 20% of the cash Okay, cashflow that's coming in and they get 20% of the future appreciation. So, let's say it goes from 5 million to 10 million over the next 15 years. They split what would that? They get an extra million bucks in the pool on top of the cash flow.
Speaker 1Does it only?
Speaker 2vet it, they, it only, it only vests if they stick around, if they stick around, yep.
Speaker 1So the smallest is five years.
Speaker 2Okay, if they quit on four years 355 days, they lose all of it, gotcha, yeah, so like. This is why we call it shadow equity. They don't have a document saying they they have it, other than an agreement saying that there's a possibility for me to do this for you, and so it's not that I need to hold them hostage, it's just that I'm telling them it's only fair.
Speaker 2There's a greater reward for you here, because I'm building something and at the end of the day, like I was with Gary Vee this morning, he was talking about a friend of his that made $132 million on this one deal and he was upset that he didn't hold onto it another two years because he would have made 400 million bucks. And I'm like, okay, at some point, whether you're worth $300 million or $8 billion, your life really is not going to change that much, I agree. So for me, I look at it and I go. My mission needs to be more about the people that have not achieved what I've achieved, and so that's what keeps me driven and understanding how do I retire these girls? By actually buying real estate. And if that's my number one KPI, guess what happens. I buy real estate. Where do I buy the real estate? From my community, which then makes me want to push hard on my community to be successful, and it all trickles up to that one goal. So, whatever your guys' goal on buying real estate is, or doing loans, create that KPI and have it reverse engineer into how do we grow this community and benefit other people's lives.
Speaker 2Because at the end of the day, you weren't here. I know you're Korean, so you love money. Okay, korean, so you love money. Okay, I know you love money, but at the end of the day, what do you what? What were you born to do? You're born to freaking. Change people's lives, yeah, so go change. What's cool is change these people's lives in your community. They all make more money by the more focus you have. That money trickles down to your team. You and your partner. Take 80 of it. Give 20 of it away. What do you care? Yeah, make all these guys rich. Yeah, make it like wolf of wall street 2 up in here, like people, everybody in here wearing rolexes and stuff kind of have that vibe going up.
Speaker 1Our mission statement is creating millionaires to real estate. Yeah, and it starts with the people that are here right now our investors, our community, our borrowers. Um, and we're getting close. We're doing it every day. We're chipping away, we sell deals to people. You're 30 I.
Speaker 2I got my first deal at your age. That's wild. You are 12, 15 years ahead of me, dude. Like, think about what you will accomplish. I look at guys like grant cardone, good friend of mine, been on the tv show a couple of times Dean Graziosi these guys that are 55, dean's 56. Grant is 67, dude, grant's killing it man. He looks good. When did he buy his first multifamily deal? He was 52. Really, tell me you are not winning. Put that into perspective. Get a couple of these guys as your heroes and just look at them and go. If I have accomplished that by his age, I feel like I will have won. But then realize that you are 12 years ahead of me already. Maybe even more right. You and your partner are so far ahead, dude. Oh my gosh, you won't be Grant Cardone's age for 37 more years. Literally two and a half times your age.
Speaker 2That's why and look what you got, dude.
Speaker 1Praise the. Lord.
Speaker 2Yes, guys, I don't know. I don't know where you're putting this YouTube or wherever you're putting this, but give this man some freaking love. And if you, what's the name of your guys' community?
Speaker 1Deals and dollars Academy.
Speaker 2Deals and dollars Academy.
Speaker 1I really, I feel really inspired with what you taught me today. Um would love to I feel inspired.
Speaker 2I wish I could get jump in a time machine and jump back to 30 and know what you know. Dude Like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1no-transcript.
