2018: Green Panther: Infinity Book

It's 2018, and Marvel is lurching towards the climax of ten years of interconnected movies, while the Academy manages to trip over itself. The Oscar went to Green Book, now considered one of the century's biggest blown calls, but is it a bad movie, or just a bad pick for Best Picture? Claire, Erin, and Dan discuss, before moving on to the Marvel movies that ruled the box office. Black Panther brought audiences to the kingdom of Wakanda, while Infinity War finally bring Thanos to the forefront. But which works better? Who's got the hotter lead? Listen in and see if you agree.

Find all of our episodes and the rest of Writing Therapy Productions' various entertainments at www.writingtherapyproductions.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Previously, on Academy vs. Audience. Driving this Daisy isn't even, in my opinion, the best Oscar-winning movie about someone learning to be less racist via chauffeuring, featuring a scene where the passenger is horrified that the driver pulls over to P.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Oh God. I'm horrified that these are sentences, right?

SPEAKER_05 0:22

You're gonna watch the other one someday.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

We will. Oh no, it's Green Book.

SPEAKER_06 0:28

Tonight on Academy vs. Audience. Since 1928, the Academy Coaching Picture Arts and Sciences tended out awards to what it considers the best films of the year. And all that time audiences have had their own opinions. This is Academy vs. Audience, where we revisit all the best picture winners and the corresponding Fox Office champions. I'm Dan Gibbons with Beast Always is Aaron Weir. How's it going, Aaron?

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Dan, it is so good. I was in the sun for so long today. I had some beverages. I did not talk about any movies, but I had such good times with friends. So I can't complain. How are you?

SPEAKER_06 1:15

Uh, I had work, so I didn't do any of that. Although, there was cake and there were canopies, one of which was just various salamis surrounding a corny Sean, and that was obviously delicious. Oh my god, amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Sounds great.

SPEAKER_06 1:30

And Claire Bolton, what's up, Claire?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

It was my birthday, so that's how I'm doing. And also, cakes and canopes. The best. I feel like we're all here just to celebrate with these three movies that are These movies are particularly attuned to Claire.

SPEAKER_06 1:52

I'm sure all of them are about Claire somehow. And some of them are about curing racism with a road trip.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Correct.

SPEAKER_06 2:02

So before we find out if it's easier to dissect Peak Marvel than it is Star Wars, let's talk about our best picture winner. Originally published in 1936, the Negro Motorist Green Book was a curated guide to help African Americans navigate the worst, dumbest, cruelest parts of the United States of America, finding hotels and restaurants safe for them under segregation. This invaluable travel aid now comes to the big screen as a prop in a movie about an Italian bouncer learning not to be racist by driving a concert penis in the Deep South for two months. Green Book!

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Yep. The movie that is non-derogatory, a reverse driving Miss Daisy. It is. It is a reverse driving Miss Daisy. Also, I do enjoy how it's called Green Book, and the titular Green Book? The Green Book appears like two times.

SPEAKER_06 3:02

Twice. They put a lot of mustard on it the first time to try to justify that title. And then one other time later the movie is just like, uh just find us a hotel. It's like, alright, flips open the green book. That's like it's been like an hour and 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

He barely even opens it. It's really just like a panned green book where he's like, oh, we gotta find somewhere to stay. It's also because he literally says, I can't read. So that's where we're at.

SPEAKER_06 3:34

Well, he's a little more limer literate than Hoke was.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Yes, yes. He he he can read. However, his writing style is only about food. God, okay, his letters are cute though, right? Like, when you think about a dumb guy writing to the girl he loves. Okay, I literally was like, Dave, can you write to me? And can you only write about the food you're literally eating at the moment? The food you ate 10 minutes ago, and the food you're going to eat.

SPEAKER_06 4:07

It is one of the most interesting parts of Tony's day, being Tony.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Wait, what the day that Tony gets to eat steak and eggs for breakfast? It says best day of his life. But then for lunch, he has to eat spaghetti and meatballs, and the spaghetti taste like ketchup on noodles. And that's bad.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

He was very sad about that spaghetti and meatballs.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

That's the day where uh Dr. Stanley?

SPEAKER_06 4:31

Shirley.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Shirley. That's the day where Dr. Shirley is like, okay, we're done with this. I'ma write the letters now, sir. I also this is skipping to the very end, because this is where we're at at this movie.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

This movie's all over the place. But when he arrives back at his house and Don Shirley is meeting his family, and his wife, Dolores, is like, thank you for helping with him with the letters.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

You're like, obviously she knew. You do love that Dolores knows, though, right? The entire time she's like, yep.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

The minute, the minute the letters stop being about literally the food he is currently eating, she's like, somebody else has a hand in this.

SPEAKER_06 5:14

Somebody's helping him, and I bet it's not that Russian cellist.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Okay, so I'm gonna put my cards on the table as we talk about this movie because I think one of us needs to. I know this was a controversial winner. I don't know why this movie was made. I don't know that it needed to be made. But I did kinda like it. I liked it too.

SPEAKER_06 5:42

This is what I've been saying. Like, number one, in my blog post reviewing this back in the 2021s, I did say now they flipped the races between the chauffeur and the driver. Does that make it better than driving Miss Daisy? It is better than driving Miss Daisy. That's not necessarily why. The thing is it's not a bad movie.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

No. I feel like everything around it maybe made it bad.

SPEAKER_06 6:10

It's kind of an embarrassing Oscar nominee, let alone winner.

unknown 6:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:16

But it's not a bad movie. I've now seen it three times. It's light, it's entertaining, it's well paced, it's often funny, the two leads are really good, it's ridiculously shallow, and an Italian Goomba teaching a concert pianist how to be properly black is not a good look.

unknown 6:37

No.

SPEAKER_06 6:38

But at least there's one scene where where Dr. Shirley gets to refute it right at him in the classic yelling in the rain dramatic moment.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

The f a moment that he sets up where he's like, No, you stop this car. I could yell at you in the car, but no, but no, you yell at you in the rain. And then they immediately walk back to the car after the yelling is done. Also, can we say that both of them, the two of them, are children? Like, yeah, they're they're babies such children. They've never had to navigate the world, they've never had to like deal with an actual repercussion of their actions. No. They're both clueless about the way the world works. Yeah. They live in their own little bubbles. And like, yes, yes, there is the greater picture of the movie and the greater story of Don Shirley's life, which is they're real people. Awful.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Like, and let's never never forget that segregation in the 1960s was still fully in uh in swing. Yeah, like it was awful. It was really bad. But these two are children.

SPEAKER_06 7:50

Yes, they are not people who are used to compromise and dealing with other people's needs. Even though Tony's got a wife and multiple kids, so you know, get your head in the game, Tony Lip.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Yeah, but like I do appreciate they're both jackasses all the time. Like they're both dicks to each other all the time.

SPEAKER_06 8:09

This learned to be dicks in respectful ways.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Yes. Yeah. And I do love that the movie is centered around their relationship and not the foursome, because let's never forget, there are two other members traveling with this band. One, weird Russian. Two, uh, American guy who, when he gets screen time, is good though. Right? Doesn't doesn't know what to do. Very sheltered. But good though, respects the black man and the Italian.

SPEAKER_06 8:45

Yep. When Dr. Shirley gets mixed up in probably a majority white or whites only bar in the wrong part of the southern town. He does know something's gotta be done, but this feels like a Tony job.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Mm-hmm. Yep. And then, I mean, it happens off-screen, but I also feel like he's also the one when Dr. Shirley gets arrested, the YMCA. I think he's also the one who calls. I do too. He's the one who like tips everybody off to be like, no, you have to call this guy. This guy is the one that's- We don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_05 9:22

He's handcuffed to a pipe.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

I am literally not equipped to deal with this. I am a cellist.

SPEAKER_06 9:29

They are classical musicians. They do not know how to deal with difficult legal scenarios.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

But you know who does? The Kennedys! The Italian who refuses to be a mobster, and then yes, the Kennedys. I love the scene where Dr. Shirley's like, okay, well, F this. I'm calling Kennedy the friggin' Kennedy.

SPEAKER_06 9:49

I'm calling Attorney General Robert Kennedy to sort this out. And we'd all love to picture what Robert Kennedy said to the governor of this particular southern state. Possibly, do you want to be absorbed into Ohio? No, get Dr. Shirley out of prison.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

It's such a baller move. It's such a baller move. For audience who does not know, this is the 1960s. Early 90s, like pre-JFK assassination, 1963. Like we're we're here. So the Kennedys big power. Big power. Big power, baby.

SPEAKER_06 10:30

Oh, 62 at the latest, because we make it all the way to Christmas. There are two alive Kennedys.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yeah, exactly. Kennedy's strong. But it's just like the most baller move in the whole movie that is so understated. It is the most understated move ever to exist in a movie. Like it's it is a delight. Oh yeah. Because you do wonder, you're like, oh, who did he call? The cops are so afraid. Yeah. It's friggin' RFK. Not the RFK now. The RFK. But the good RFK sucks. RFK in the 1960s? Good RFK.

SPEAKER_06 11:06

The RFK who died before he had a chance to develop opinions about vaccines.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yeah, and to be fair, that RFK could have maybe become a bad RFK, but we don't know.

SPEAKER_06 11:15

We do not know.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

No.

SPEAKER_06 11:17

I mean, he was probably pro-vaccine. Most people were because polio went away.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Yeah. It's true. Polio was bad, guys. You know what else is bad? A lot of other diseases, including COVID. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 11:28

I did note before the YMCA arrest, or at the YMCA arrest, I wrote, Stupidest thing Dr. Shirley could have done in the deep south for 600, Alex.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Oh my god. Oh my god. Okay. It's yeah. I didn't know this movie was based on a true story until the end. And I will say, when we got to the YMCA scene, I was kind of like, okay, how many hats are we putting on this hat? Like, how many things are we going to do that are like socially unacceptable in the 1960s about this man? Because Dr. Shirley is a black man with three doctorates. Three. And he's not accepted by his community. He's also not accepted by the by the white community. He's also an alcoholic. He's also at least bisexual, maybe gay. We don't know. He was married at one point, but we don't know enough about that marriage to know if it was like a violet marriage or not. Lavender. Actually, not lavender. We we don't know if it was a lavender marriage or not. Like we don't know enough, but like the movie comes and the the hits they keep on hitting. Anything that can make it suck for Dr. Shirley in the 1960s is gonna happen in this movie.

SPEAKER_06 12:39

Oh yeah, it's all there.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Well, and the thing is, is because it is a true s well, I'll use quotation marks, true story.

SPEAKER_06 12:48

It's inspired by a true story, which is the wine drink of narratives.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Exactly. It's the thing of like, we need to add these elements in, and it was not written or produced, or starring any of Shirley's relatives. That's true. But Tony's family. Because Tony's rel Nick was an executive producer.

SPEAKER_06 13:16

Tony Lipp's son co-wrote and produced this movie.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:20

I think there are two Velalongas in the cast, including the co-writer, who I believe was Augie, the mob boss, who says, Now you're not in trouble for beating up a maid man at the Copa Cabbana. You shouldn't have been throwing fists at the Copa Cabana in the first damn place. That's against the rules.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Yep. That's a good point about the movie and the way it's framed.

SPEAKER_06 13:42

It did get some pushback from relatives of Dr. Shirley, especially he knew very well how to eat fried chicken, thank you. Okay, but that scene was cute though, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:55

It's so funny. It's like it's a really sweet scene because it's in this movie, like this movie, you know what it's trying to do. Like, there's no surprises. This is not a surprising movie. So in the Kentucky fried chicken scene, of which Tony is just so happy that there's literally Kentucky fried chicken in the state of Kentucky. God, why is that scene so cute? Like, when he's like, where else are you gonna see that? Why is that so cute? It's Vigo Morgan Mortensen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:30

He's suddenly such just a big old golden retriever about this whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

He is. He is. Also, can we talk about the fact that he won like $50 in 1963 money by eating six hot dogs?

SPEAKER_06 14:47

Not even at like a big event, just hey, fat Nick or fat Louie or whatever it's. His fat buddy. Better get more hot dogs than you.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

He won. He won like $50. Like, this is all he's gonna, which is also a great scene in the movie. The scene where they're um in Pittsburgh, which is one of their first stops, where Tony plays cards with the other chauffeurs and so on, and he wins a buttload of money because this is what he does. This is his life. And then um Dr. Shirley's like, you have dust on your knees, like, wipe your pants off. You could choose to be inside, they can't. Yeah. And it's like it's a beautiful commentary, but it's also like showing who Tony is.

SPEAKER_06 15:39

He would very much rather be just throwing tice with all the other hired help than hanging around the snooty party where all these high society learned men cannot wrap their heads around the name Valalonga.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

I also tr truly believe he cannot read. In his in the scene where he's like, I can't read good, and then he's like, can't read. And you're like, correct, correct, sir, you cannot.

SPEAKER_06 16:08

But he can, he just needs to sound some things out.

unknown 16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

He's also, he became an actor. Like, if you look up Tony Lip as like an actual person, he is credited as an actor. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because he was um Carmine, like the boss Carmine in The Sopranos. Huh. Yeah. Uh after all of this and his life, he went on to be an actor and was in one of, like, arguably the best mob TV shows that we have to date. I mean, he was hobnobbing with Glitterati, even though he hated the Glitorati, other than Dr. Shirley, after a period of time.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Can we talk about how Dr. Shirley is an asshole? He waits until he is driving to give him instructions about what to do. And I'm not talking about the like 10-4 or like hands on the wheel where he's like, um, so when we get to the place where we're gonna be, here are your instructions. Come on, sir. If you're a good boss, do that in a sit-down place where this poor Italian man who you know is poor, and you know has mob connections, because you have been told that you sought him out. Tell him that when he can write it down, of course he's gonna eat your sandwich. Yeah, it also it's a beautiful scene where Tony is talking to his wife Dolores, and he's like, he was literally sitting on a throne.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

He's like, I went to his house, he lives above Carnegie Hall, it's decked out, and he was sitting on a friggin' throne.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

And you're like, yes, that's who he is. And it it's such a beautiful portrayal to be like, this is a man that is scared of who he is, like scared of being who he is as a black man in 1960s America, touring the deep south. But also, dude, you're not nice. He's not nice man. The conversation with addiction, where he's like, Tony, you huge addiction, and Tony's like, in what way? And he's like, the only way the word is ever used. There are some beautiful like in this movie, there are some beautifully funny, funny, true moments. Like Tony's letters, I love them. I love his letters, and like even though Shirley is helping him, it's so beautiful. When he the the most precious moment is the final letter. When they're like, they're in Birmingham, they're in that gross motel, and Tony's writing it out. He's like, Do you wanna uh here, read it?

SPEAKER_01 18:52

And he's like, Dolores, you're a house. And I was like, This is perfect. Racing, this is everything. And he's like, a house with lights, and everybody's happy.

SPEAKER_06 19:04

And you're like, Oh, he did figure it out. He's just making it a little bit more his own.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Yeah, and it's the beautiful moment of Shirley being like, Yeah, you got it. Don't worry, buddy. Now, like, don't get me wrong, Tony is also an asshole. He plays dumb all the time about things that he is not dumb about. When he's like, Oh, I shouldn't smoke inside, you just should have said something. You didn't say anything.

SPEAKER_06 19:30

He's been saying stuff for like two months, Tony.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Yeah. But like, it's nice that they're both assholes in this movie. Yeah. I think. I think it's nice. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 19:42

Tony's a good asshole to have in this situation.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:47

Some little things like going upside the head of a roadie stagehand guy who got the wrong piano and is being uppity about it.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's also a great scene. Because also, the guy in that theater did not expect to be open-hand slapped in the ear by an Italian man. He did not expect it.

SPEAKER_06 20:12

You tried to be all big and tough about look, I only gotta answer to you. Suddenly, it reached a point he's less prepared for than he thought.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 20:22

Suddenly, they find a Steinway.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

But it's like those beautiful moments that show their true friendship. And like, I l I really I I like this movie. I like the way it showed the development of their friendship because obviously none of us were there for this, and none of us are privy to the based on a true storiness of it.

SPEAKER_06 20:48

Yeah, it is written by the son of a guy who identifies himself in the movie as a world-class bullshitter.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Exactly. The portrayal of 1960s, both casual and overt racism, I found was less cartoonish than driving Miss Daisy. I agree.

SPEAKER_06 21:11

A little bit, yeah. The first big house that they stop at, the one that won't let Dr. Shirley use the indoor washroom. The big that's the big overt racism. But then the smaller microaggression, like Tony saying, What? You're you gotta like fried chicken. How do you not like fried chicken? Uh that they pushed that a little, it could have been just why does this have to be a race thing? Everybody loves fried chicken. There was a cracked article about this once. Someone's saying, Why do we make liking fried chicken racially problematic? I'm so white like passes through me, and I shove my own mother into a puddle for fried chicken. It's never done anything to you but be delicious.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 21:52

But the rich people saying, Gosh, we didn't know what to cook for Dr. Shirley. So we ask the servants. Proudly bring out this plate of fried chicken. That is some offering your Asian Exchange student a bowl of plain white rice for Thanksgiving. Bullshit right there.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah. But in the context of the movie, it is a beautiful scene because we have just seen the two of them in Kentucky where they're talking about the fried chicken and also Aretha Franklin and Lionel Richie, like and Chubby Checker and Stevie Wonder. Like they're talking about all of this, and they have this beautiful exchange, and it ends on the fried chicken. It does, because they're in Kentucky. And then we leave it for a second. And this is where the movie is really great because it brings it back. And it's like, yeah, yeah. The servants. We wanted him to know that he was really loved.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

And the only food we could think of was fried chicken. And you're like, you all suck.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

And they get the tiny woman of Vico Mortenson being like, hey? Yeah. He's like, I told you, right? Because also what we've seen from him with the letters, which was like I joked about it before, but it's he likes food. He likes food. That's also brought back multiple times. And it's the thing of he's like, I told you. I told you fried chicken's really good. So it's like this beautiful moment of filmmaking that's also social commentary.

SPEAKER_06 23:32

I do like the bonding of her throwing the bones out the windows.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

And then he throws the drink out. He goes out the window.

SPEAKER_06 23:39

And that's a bridge too far for Dr. Shirley. It's like, well, yeah, nature is filled with bones, not take a tops coated in white.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Which is also, I will say, for 1960s America, a step forward. Because they would just throw stuff out the window and it would be fine. I mean, seeing Dr. Shirley treat Tony as a child repetitively was really interesting. Because he really he really does treat Tony like he's his dumb child. Yep. That he needs to take care of. With the stone, the Jane Stone scene.

SPEAKER_06 24:16

Yeah, for the cellist narks him out for having grabbed a obviously one of the for sale polished stones that fell onto the ground, and now he thinks he can just take that.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Man, the cellist sucks though, right? Like that man. He's being a dick.

SPEAKER_06 24:31

Why are you gonna drop a dime on Tony Lip over a rock?

unknown 24:34

Right?

SPEAKER_06 24:35

You might need this guy to save Dr. Shirley from racist thugs at a bar tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah. Exactly. Who else is gonna do that cellist? Not you. Not you, because you're also a Russian, and though you have the line of the Cold War is over, it's not over. This is the 60s. It's not over. I don't know. Going into this movie, I had like my expectations were in the basement. I thought this movie was going to be offensive and boring and bad. And like I don't think it was revolutionary. Like I don't think it said anything new. But it wasn't what I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I agree. I thought the same thing.

SPEAKER_06 25:16

It's not deep. It's no segregation was bad 101.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:22

But it's still pleasant.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah. It is a biopic. Like we've seen many a biopic. And it's one of those ones where you're like, why now? Like, what about it? Because because both of them, real life people, died in 2013. Within months of each other, because they're best friends. And it's so cute. Because Tony died in, I think, January, and Shirley died in November. It's like almost a whole year, and it's really cute. Like it's that whole cuteness thing, but also we're in 2018 now. So like why between 2013 of their deaths and now, and also the 1960s of when this all was happening. What what coalesced to make it the now movie?

SPEAKER_06 26:15

I don't even know.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:18

Like somehow the son of Tony Lip, I guess, spent some amount of the next three to four years shopping around a screenplay about his dad and a famous pianist until the director of There's Something About Mary finally said, This is my ticket to high society.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Oh, and is it because because Tony Lip, like the real person, did the Sopranos, which once again he was in the like second to fifth seasons question mark, maybe second to fourth seasons, he was a major player. Like he is he's a boss. He's very old. He's very old in in those. But the Sopranos ended as a series in 2007 question mark, 2006, 2007.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

So we still have like 10 more years after the the end of that to also the end of when the real people died.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

So like, what? What made it special? I mean, I I guess it takes time to like shop movies around and stuff, but it's it's just wild because we're gonna talk about another movie coming up that is The Box Office Champ. Yeah. And to talk about that, like black story versus this story, you're just like, one seems archaic. It seems like like things we've treaded upon. And then the other one is like, oh, this is like an interesting new exploration that we haven't seen on film.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

There's nothing wrong with Green Book.

unknown 27:47

No.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

It's not offensive, it's not bad, it's just not new.

SPEAKER_06 27:51

It's just it one best picture the year there were two other contenders with the word black in the title.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

And that's it. Because we're like, we also have seen biopics before. You know, like we've we've been on this podcast a while. Biopics are not a new thing.

SPEAKER_06 28:09

People wanted biopics to be deep and challenging. Why has Michael made $900 million?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

It is the bet it just surpassed every other biopic as the most wittiness ever in biopic history.

SPEAKER_06 28:26

Previous Contender was is coming up on Art Factoids, but so it's one of those There was nothing inherently wrong with this movie until somebody called it the best movie of the year, and everybody stuck their hand up and said, Fucking what?

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Yeah. Yeah. Because, like I said, I liked it. I would watch this movie again. Yeah. It's it's not a bad movie. I actually really enjoyed it. I wasn't mad that I watched it. I actually had to pay some money to watch it, and I was like, okay with that. I my money went to a fine cause. It's not a bad movie. I just I was like, this one? This one. However, that's not the first time we've all been like, this one?

unknown 29:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

For best picture.

SPEAKER_06 29:11

Happened more than once.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:14

I believe that is my letterbox review of the greatest show on earth. Is this the movie he gave Cecil B. DeMille an Oscar for?

SPEAKER_05 29:22

This movie. Yeah. This is the movie.

unknown 29:25

This one?

SPEAKER_02 29:26

We should take a moment to talk about the scene, though, where um Dr. Shirley is playing the piano in the orange bar. Oh. The orange bird. Which is like, so this is really like very close to the penultimate scene of the movie. It's like the big moment where he's been doing a tour of the states, the southern states, playing the piano in states that would love to uh put a black man up as a sideshow, but do not want to invite him into society. And they finally arrive at the final venue on Christmas Eve, and he needs to eat dinner before he plays piano for a bunch of wealthy people, and the restaurant just will not let a black man in to dine. Yep. They wouldn't do it when the Knicks were there. They will not do it for Dr. Shirley. The Celtics, they're like, no. And so, like, ultimately, Tony and Dr. Shirley call the bluff of the restaurant. The restaurant does not like that. And they just walk out into the night. They drive. They're gonna drive home. They're gonna go back to New York. But first, they are hungry. So they go to the restaurant that was recommended to Dr. Shirley, which is a bar. And is a bar for the black citizenship of Birmingham, Alabama. Yes, thank you. I was like, Baltimore, nope. So they go in there and they are having their drinks because Dr. Shirley, as I said earlier, is an alcoholic. He is. Will drink a bottle of whiskey every night.

SPEAKER_06 30:56

That's part of his rider. He will not share that bottle of Cuddy Stark with Tony Lip even one time.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Nope. So they go in there, they have their drinks, and then he sees a piano. Is it the fancy piano he always wants to play on? It is not a Steinway. And so he gets to become a man of the people for a night, and he loves it.

SPEAKER_06 31:16

But only after he takes the glass of whiskey off the piano, having previously established this as the stereotypical black musician image they want him to fit, smoking a cigarette glass of whiskey right on the piano. First thing he does when he sits down. He's eyeballed as a big thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

He doesn't want to be Stevie. No. No, he he is a concert pianist. He was trained to play classical music. But the white people, they hate when he plays classical music. And also the black people, they hate when he plays classical music. Which also, I will say, Marshallah Ali is so beautiful. Because the last time we saw him, he was drug dealer kingpin. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 32:00

And it's dramatically different role for him.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

So different. And he learned, like, it wasn't him playing the piano in the scenes, because an actor cannot be doing that. But he took three I was reading up, and he took three months of piano lessons to learn the finger placements. Because obviously, Shirley, Don Shirley was a real person. A concert pianist. So he looked up like how your fingers were placed, and he did all of this research and he took lessons. And it's so beautiful to watch. Like the scenes that he's playing, even though they did like super camera tricks and so on. Him playing the pianos is beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

And like so good.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

The joy on his face when he is just playing piano in the in the orange bird. Like just playing. Not for all these people who hate him. No. Like just playing for people who want him there.

SPEAKER_06 33:06

Just jamming with the band. He does one of his big songs first, but then the rest of the band comes up and they're like, all right, just follow along.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Just play. It's also such a beautiful the moment where he walks away in the rain after they're released and they're driving, and he's like, Who am I? It's such a beautiful moment. Because he's like, Yeah, I'm not Stevie Wonder. I'm not Aretha Franklin. I'm not any of these people. Like, because I love classical music. And that's what I was brought up. And he was. He was born in Florida. He played the panhandle. Like he was so good at classical piano. And Chopin's not hard. Like, Chopin, sorry, Chopin is hard to play. Like if you want to do it well. And at this point in time as well, a black man playing Chopin is unheard of. So like he playing a classical piano, anything classical, but then also adding his own, because he took inspiration from jazz and from blues. Like he took the inspiration. And it's so beautiful to watch those moments, to be like, he knows, he knows it. And then also to be like, watching him be like, Who am I? Who? Who am I?

SPEAKER_01 34:33

And you're like, we're just lost. You're a lost little soul. And it's so sad.

SPEAKER_06 34:39

Doesn't fit in with the black folks, can't fit in with the white folks. And he's a little too gay for a lot of folks.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Yeah. Which also that scene at the YMCA. Oh, that's a good scene.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Whether or not it's realistic, because I like I I understand there is controversy around this movie, specifically from Dr. Shirley's Estranged Family.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

Yep. Who were like, well, that's not accurate. And then the people who wrote the movie were like, we didn't know you existed. Anyway, I know there's controversy around the movie, and I don't know that we have like the nuance to dive into that. But the way that scene is depicted, and when Tony walks in, sees Dr. Shirley handcuffed to the pipe of the YMCA, naked, and is just like, Alright, just another day at the office.

SPEAKER_06 35:30

Like his summary of I work in a nightclub. I know life is complicated.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:36

And it brings it just reminds me of exchange for the pilot of a TV show called Sleepy Hollow, where I love Sleepy Hollow. Ichabod Crane is brought from revolutionary times, the modern day, to help solve apocalyptic crimes. Actually arriving in the 21st century is being driven around by the straight laced detective he's working with, because that's how these shows operate. Man in a baseball cap kissing another man in a coffee shop. He's like, I see some things have changed. And the detective's like, Yeah. Well, courts even say they can get married now, and he stares at her. I was referring to a gentleman wearing his hat indoors. I know about homosexuals.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yep. Yep. That whole scene, like following the YMCA in through because we've also seen Dr. Shirley being beaten for having a drink. Like, yes, he's an alcoholic, but we've also seen we've just seen him being beaten for having a drink. The green book is literally in existence for where he can stay, and the rest of his band cannot stay with him.

SPEAKER_06 36:46

Mm-hmm. No, because the point is not just make sure the blacks are someplace worse. The point is to segregate them. So white people aren't supposed to stay at the colors-only hotels. That's against their whole point.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Yeah, so it's like we've seen all of this, and this moment comes, and what makes it also like gut-wrenching is one of the two police officers is a man of color. There is a black police officer in this scenario which drives home the point that it's not just his race, it's his sexual orientation.

SPEAKER_06 37:26

And it's a gay crime, not a race thing.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Yeah. And it's a YMCA, which now we know that was a safe place for uh men to go. Literally, it was a song. But also, like it was a safe place for gay men to go in this time period to just be who they are. And the fact that this is where they're like, meh, meh, meh, no, no, no. And you're like, ugh.

SPEAKER_06 37:59

Well, the cops did like to raid the safe places for an easy bust. Yeah. And I did like the exchange where Dr. Shirley is mad that Tony bribed their way out of it. It's like what they did was wrong and now they've profited from it. And Tony's point is I'm not here to win a civil rights battle on your behalf. I am here to get you to the next city in time for the next show. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

That was why you hired me. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 38:28

For these skills. So that's what I did. I made this problem go away by any means necessary.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Mm-hmm. My job, which was also my job working security at the Copacabana, and also my job probably working sanitation because sanitation is quotation marks. Sanitation.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

We're real. Sanitation is the mob adjacent. It's the mafia. Let's be real here.

SPEAKER_06 38:57

He's deep with the mob. It's just trying to avoid a certain kind of deep, which is why when Augie, played by the, I believe, Tony real Tony Lipson, was saying, You can come work for me. Like, doing what? Things.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Things and stuff.

SPEAKER_06 39:18

Just lies about being broke. He's like, no, I'm actually flush right now.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

So I have a question for you guys. When he runs into his mock friends when they're on tour, and like when they're going to the hotel, and he's like in telling, he's like, oh no, no, no, we can't talk about this now. We'll talk about it later. And then Dr. Shirley catches him, because Dr. Shirley clearly speaks Italian. That is like a song that operas are or a language that operas are are in.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Do you think he was actually going downstairs to be like, hey guys, no? I just could not have the conversation in front of my boss. Or was he considering a yes? I th I I personally think he was considering the yes.

SPEAKER_06 39:59

I do. I think maybe, but I think he was leaning though, because again, he doesn't want to be deeper with the mob than he is.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

I also thought it was a no. I I think he will take the sure thing. Yes. And I think when Dr. Shirley caught him going down there and like doubled his pay, he was like, oh no, this is the sure the sure thing, and that just like cemented it. But I don't think he was gonna say yes.

SPEAKER_06 40:22

Plus he is a man of his word in that he doesn't take the offer of enhanced title and doubled pay. He's like, no, we agreed on this, this price, and that's what it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

It's also he offered more. Like he upped his offer in the the scene where they first meet. He's like, no, 125 or it's nothing. So and like I think at this point in time in their tour, he's also they're friends. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, no, no, no. We buddies. Because it's the same thing of like when they get pulled over by the cops twice, but also when they get pulled over by the second cops. I know. And he's like, And it's just like, no, no, no, you have a flat tire, buddy, and we want you to get home.

SPEAKER_06 41:17

You can tell. We're back in the north where people treat each other right regardless of race. Don't fact check that.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

No, no, no. It it's untrue. And again, that's why this movie is not an Oscar winner, because it is like, it is taking racial relations in the US and like making them excuse the reference, black and white.

SPEAKER_06 41:39

Yeah, like there's no nuance. As soon as you're out of Virginia, racism goes away.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

It's true. You're in Pennsylvania now. It's fine. It's not, it's not fine, everyone. But like, it's also Tony is that guy. We've established through this movie, at this point in time in the movie, we've established he's he's okay. He's fine. He's no longer putting cups that black men have drink drank from in the garbage can. We're beyond this.

SPEAKER_06 42:12

Not like his family call Dr. Shirley unpleasant names. And this is the movie that taught me why, after not understanding it for over two decades, why in true romance Dennis Hopper tells Christopher Walken, you are part eggplant. Never understood that. Now I know. The Italian word for eggplant is a little similar to the Italian word for term for African Americans. I'm not gonna say on the internet.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

No, no. I did love, though, when Dr. Shirley showed up, Linda Cardellini's character, Dolores, hugs him right away and then says, Thank you for helping Tony with the letters. But I think that woman would have hugged him, like her friends be damned, at the beginning of the movie. Because she was okay. Like she took those glasses out of the garbage. And she didn't need those men to come over and watch baseball because there were black handymen in her house. Like, she didn't care. The men saw the handyman arrive and were like, we're coming.

SPEAKER_06 43:16

Yeah. She's the one who said, and do you want a drink of water?

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. No, Dolores, we love Dolores. She's in the movie for 20 seconds.

SPEAKER_06 43:26

She is there to read those letters and lug a man. Any amount of Linda Cardalini is good, right? There's almost never enough, but I'll take whatever Linda Cardalini I can get.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Also, once again, can any man just write me a letter about the food he is eating currently, thinking about eating, and also ate this morning? I will read it to my girlfriends. It'll be perfect. And also their husbands are gonna be so on board with it. It's an Artie family. Yep. That's all I want. I just want someone to write a letter about the food they are currently eating. Man, and like I don't know, Vigo Mortensen's way too old for me. I did like him with his like little beer belly in his like white tank tops throughout this movie. Something about it like really did it for me. It's because he's so charming. Cause he's a child. Like, literally, he's a child the whole movie. Claire, I don't think that makes it better. No, it doesn't. He doesn't. But like, in the most endearing way.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Like, honestly, the Jade Stone scene is the most like, hey, no, no, no, no. And he's like, dad, I'm mad at you. Scene in the whole movie. This man is 45. Like, everybody is 45. He's like, no. You caught me doing something bad, and that man told on me.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

He's like, no, you gotta put it back or pay for it.

SPEAKER_06 45:04

It's my rock.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

I hate you.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

You're so mean. It's perfect. It's everything you want it to be.

SPEAKER_06 45:15

I just remember the audience when I saw it in theaters cracking up when he folded an entire large pizza in half and ate it like a taco.

unknown 45:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

So I've been watching a lot of Sopranos, and that did not surprise me at all. Because I'm like, this seems correct.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

Pizza is supposed to be folded.

SPEAKER_05 45:36

Have you guys never been to New York? That's how you eat New York pizza. That's how you eat a pizza. It was the early 60s. It was still a very experimental food.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

I mean, you're supposed to fold up your slice, not the entire large piece. Not the whole thing. It's glorious. Once again, I would like a full-grown man to write to me about the food he is currently eating, the food he ate earlier that day, and the food he is thinking about eating later.

SPEAKER_06 46:07

Dear Claire, I got myself a giant pizza today. They were gonna slice it up, but I said, nah, you don't do that. I'm only eating one slice of pizza for dinner.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Perfect. Yes. Never change. No notes. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 46:25

So you know the controversy was settling in so fast over this as an awards can't contender that I remember Bill Murray was presenting Best Picture that year, and as soon as he announced it, he held the card up to the cameras as if to say, don't pin this on me. This is not a La La Land situation. I am only the messenger here. And in total it was nominated for a whopping five Oscars, of which it won three. Picture supporting actor for Maherschal Elie and original screenplay. It lost lead actor for Vega Mortensen and editing. Somehow, the director of the movie, where Matt Damon and Greg Kaneer play conjoined twins, did not land a Best Director nomination. I also recall how perplexed Samuel L. Jackson was announcing and the Oscar goes to Green Book for screenplay, as contrasted to his utter joy at announcing Spike Lee for adapted screenplay immediately afterwards. Green Book won the Golden Globe for Best Musical Comedy, but lost both the Critic's Choice and the BAFTA.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Wild then.

SPEAKER_06 47:32

Time of recording, Rotten Tomatoes ranks at number eighty-six out of ninety-eight under Gladiator and over Braveheart. I'm more generous, I have it number seventy under American Beauty and Above the King speech. Because again, it's not bad. It's just thin.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:49

And is ill-served by having been put in this conversation to begin with.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 47:54

Our other nominees at number eight by my ranking, Bohemian Rhapsody, an utter empty calorie biopic of Freddie Mercury and Queen, which proves why people in the biopic should not produce the biopic. And was the highest grossing musician biopic of all time until about a week ago, time of recording.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

I was gonna say until right now. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 48:17

Oh, if the Academy makes me watch that later this year, I'm gonna be so mad.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

We're all gonna watch Michael. The kids are all about it.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

His nephew question mark plays him? I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 48:34

Mean his nephew does play him.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Okay, good, good.

SPEAKER_06 48:38

Meanwhile, I have competing movies starring Nicholas Galatzine that deserve to be making hundreds of millions dollars more than they did that have come out in the last month. As he is in both Masters of the Universe, which was an absolute blast, and Sheep Detectives, which is everything to me.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Okay, I want to see sheep detectives. I am here for it. Obsessed. I am here for that.

SPEAKER_06 49:06

You think it's gonna just be a silly little rump about sheep solving a murder? You don't think it's going to be a powerful treatise on grief.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Yeah, no, I'm here for this.

SPEAKER_05 49:16

Uh I just remember all the TikToks about why did this sheep detective movie make me cry?

SPEAKER_02 49:22

I cry at everything. I will ball at this.

SPEAKER_06 49:25

There's every chance. A number seven is where I would put Green Book. A number six, A Star Is Born, the fourth go-round for the story of a romance between an up-and-coming young singer and an aging star on their way out. It just peaks when Lady Gaga sings Shallow for the first time and loses momentum shortly thereafter. And it lost me when Bradley Cooper was mad that instead of following him into country music, she decided to be a singer.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Yeah, because he has a whole scene with her in the bathtub where he's like, You're not pretty enough. And she's like, I'm on a billboard. He's like, I'm mad, and now I'm an alcoholic. And you're like. Then he pees himself. I understand. Yes, he does. At the Grammys.

SPEAKER_06 50:11

Probably weren't meant to spend an hour saying, Would you kindly reach rock bottom and die already, please? At number five, I place Roma about the struggles of a young maid working for a middle-class Mexican family in a time of civic unrest. It won the BAFTA and the Critic's Choice, every best director award available, and it is filmred's absolute favorite of this year, so I don't know, maybe I missed something.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 50:36

It's based on Alfonso Kira San's memory, so it is a very interesting filming technique, and then a lot of scenes there is a static camera placement, but it rotates. So it's like there is a fixed spot observing all this, but that's different than just a fixed camera angle.

SPEAKER_04 50:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 50:57

Okay. Number four is Vice, in which the writer and director of the Big Short attempts a similar approach to the life and times of Dick Cheney with mixed results.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Didn't Dick Cheney get shot while hunting? Is that Dick Cheney? Who got shot while hunting?

SPEAKER_06 51:14

Dick Cheney shot a friend of his in the face while hunting rouse. Yes. And the friend had to apologize to him on national television.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

There we go. That's that's what happened. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 51:25

Cool. The reveal of who the narrator played by Jesse Plemens has been this whole time was pretty killer. Okay. Number three, our domestic box office champion, which we will get to momentarily. Number two, the favorite, where Yorgos, Lanthamos, and Emma Stone found each other for the first time. The story of a struggle between a disgraced former noblewoman and her well-to-do cousin over who will be the most loved of Queen Anne, which also steers the state of the country. And at number one, the black clansman from Spike Lee, based on the true story of a black police detective infiltrating the KKK.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

Oh yes. I have not seen it, but I want to.

SPEAKER_06 52:10

Spike Lee does such a great job of portraying the clan as utter buffoons, while reminding us that stupid people aren't less dangerous for being stupid.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Mm-hmm. Seems like Spike Lee. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 52:23

Yep. These people are idiots, but idiots can still plant a bomb.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

They can. And here's the thing. When idiots put their mind duh to something, they'll they'll do it. They'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_06 52:38

Going further, but I would just be trying to repeat Chad the Bird's brilliant 10-minute video about the danger of stupid, which he happened to record in early November of 2024 for some reason. It's almost as if the danger of stupid people was on his mind after the first two, say November of 2024. Anyway. Moving along to the box office side. How good a filmmaker is Ryan Kugler? Ryan Kugler can get Oscar nominations for a Marvel movie.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

Right? Yeah, he can.

SPEAKER_06 53:10

As John Mullaney said about Angela Bassett getting an Oscar nomination for playing her character in this movie, though not it for this movie. She got an Oscar nomination for a Marvel movie. It's like getting a Pulitzer Prize for a Reddit comment.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

Also, because Angela Bassett? Awesome. Angela Bassett did the she great.

SPEAKER_06 53:31

Oh, Ariana DeBose. That line was not your fault. You just put a lot of mustard on it and people noticed.

SPEAKER_02 53:37

She tried real hard. She sang that song. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 53:40

To actually synopsize. One, two, princess deal before you. It's what I said now. Princess, Princess who'll rule for you. Just go ahead now. One has diamonds in his pockets. That's some bread now. This one, he wants to end the Western world with rockets. Ain't in his head now. Not long ago, during a big team up movie, we met a troubled hero from a hidden kingdom of wonders and technology, shielded from the outside world. After years in exile, the hero is called upon to claim his rightful throne. No. Wait. There's no exile. That's Aquaman. I'm thinking of Aquaman. Sorry. Immediately following the events of civil war, still grieving the loss of his father, Prince T'Challa returns to Wakanda to take the throne. However, a rival emerges. The half brother he never knew, who also holds a claim to wait, are they brothers in this? Michael B. Jordan, are you playing his brother? Ah we could Dang it That's Aquaman again. T'Challa's cousin, raised in America and known to the CIA as Black Ops Operative Killmonger, arrives to challenge T'Challa for both the throne and the mantle of Black Panther, with the plan of waging war against the nations that held his people down for so long. T'Challa's friends and family must pull together to find a way to block Killmonger from uniting the tribes in war against the world and declaring himself the ocean mass son of a bitch! Aquaman. From turning Wakanda from a secret paradise to just another colonizer state. Do I want to watch Wakanda forever this weekend or do I want to watch Aquaman? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

I love this movie.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

It was so good. I'd never seen it before. And I'm here, Black Panther. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 55:38

Don't let me point out that this has some plot similarities to Aquaman, which came out nine months later. So I'm not ten months later, so I'm not saying one is a knockoff. Distract from the fact this movie is really, really good.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

No. So good. The thing with this movie is somehow, well, no, it's Ryan Kugler, so I know how. He cast and also Marvel did it. The most charismatic people in this movie ever. Every single person in this movie, including Killmonger, Michael B. Jordan, you love every single person in this movie, and you want all of them to succeed. Even Killmonger. Yes, you do. You do. Because in his like museum heist. Oh god, he's so charming. Oh, with his little glasses.

SPEAKER_06 56:32

He's not wrong about this museum issue. It's a very good, but is he wrong though intro. But also we have Ulysses Clow here, so he can't be that right. Andy Circus having the time of his life.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

With his one arm eventually. Time of his life. Love him. Yes. He's like a hot tattooed man. He never gets to do that. Right?

SPEAKER_06 56:56

Basically, Ryan Kugler found every charismatic black actor who ought to be on the A-list but somehow isn't, and got them all into this movie.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

Yeah. No, it's so frickin' good. And at this point in time, like it's incredible in the way that, like, it's just so beautiful. It's so beautiful. We're here for it. We're in Wakanda. Wakanda forever. Like, all of it. So good. Daniel Kalula as his best friend slash turned nem Nemesis? Nemesis? Kind of? Yeah. But he's full nemesis. Is he's also because he turns because everybody's for Wakanda, but he like has the like, you're not doing it right. He wants the truth. I want this, and we're not, and I and like it's so beautiful. It's so good.

SPEAKER_06 57:53

Killmonger is getting shit done that he has felt has been neglected.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 57:59

And he's on the Border Tribe. The Border Tribe are the ones who actually have to interact with the outside world the most.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

Yes. I also I I love, love, love, love that they're like the way of uh not electing a new king uh a new king, but like the how they solidify is a fight at the edge of a waterfall with no super because they take away the Black Panther power. They're like, you don't have that. You're literally just a man. Just a man fighting another man.

SPEAKER_06 58:38

First of all, Black Panther and Monarch aren't always supposed to go hand in hand. And second of all, that is unfair.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

But like, boy, how lucky is it for Ticella that he has hung out with the Avengers over the past year. So he has seen nor I okay, most of the Avengers are somewhat genetically modified. But he still had to deal with like people in the outside world who can fight. Yeah. And so he's like prepared. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 59:06

Also, he's been the Black Panther for a minute. Like, you get the sense he came of age and his father said it's time to retire being the Black Panther.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

And also, we literally we also just watched, but as a full everyone who's watched Marvel movies have just seen his father be killed. We just saw this. We feel for him. We're on his side. Yeah. Yep. That poor sweet man. Yep. His daddy is dead. And and then his fr then he made some friends, and then he had to go fight some other superheroes. Right? He's had he's had a bad day. Also, his sister. Love her.

SPEAKER_05 59:52

Love her. She's great.

SPEAKER_06 59:54

And I just I love a Q branch sequence.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

Yes. And her Q is the bet the best Q.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:01

Yep. And the virtual car runs over one of the headshots. What was that? Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

She's so good. Love her so much.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:09

I didn't know shouting what are those at shoes was a meme until some chabroni on Reddit complained about it, but I still don't care.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Uh he's wearing flip-flops in a science area. Yeah, no, she's like, you gotta wear closed-toe shoes. Closed-toe. And as someone who has dealt with explaining what closed-toed shoes are to medical doctors for a decade, I felt it. No, I love her everything she is. She is the best. I also I love how Wakanda is both super feminist, but also super traditional. Like in like the what you would expect in superhero land to be. It's great. It's so good. Because the the guard, the like full-on guard girl ladies.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:04

The Dora Melaje.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

Yeah. And they great. They're the best.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:09

Oh yeah. Gotta love the Dora Melaje. That's why we've seen them the most of any Wakanda person in other projects.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

Yeah. I also feel like, because I mean, obviously in any any superhero movie, you need like the external conflict, which is Killmonger, but you also need the internal crisis of faith. And I felt like the way they did it in this movie was like quite well done. You're never like it was never like a Hamlet thing where you're like, oh my god, tich Tashalla, just take action. Like him learning about his dead dad and having a crisis crisis of faith was like really interesting. It didn't slow things down.

unknown 1:01:49

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

And it didn't paralyze him. He thought about it. Then he kind of half died. And then he came back and he was like, no, okay. I mostly died, and then the snow brought me back to life, and now I need to be a different king.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:03

He's not saying, Oh, I guess Killmonger was right, and we should absolutely become the colonizers that we loathe so much. He's saying, okay, yeah, but doing nothing was not the other option on the table. There were there are things in between conquer the world and just hang out and do nothing against about injustice the world over.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:28

Exactly. And it's so beautiful because it's so well acted. You have great like it's a superhero movie. Let's never forget this. Superhero movie, extremely well cast, extremely well acted, extremely well written. Like it is a good superhero movie. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I am here for everything. Even it and it's a s also it's it's one of the Marvel movies that you don't actually have to have seen the rest of them to get.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:07

I I think everything gets explained to you pretty well. The scene where they go to find Nakia as she's infiltrating to take down human traffickers outside the borders. That shows you what the Black Panther is. Like how that works. And feet established right up the top. And his father just died. And we have that cool animated sequence to give the full history of Wakanda. And Everett Ross is a white CIA agent who knows who Chichala is. That's all you really need to know about him. It's not like Civil War had any other rich deep backstory on Everett Ross that weren't we're not gonna pick up on all the nuances if we didn't remember it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:50

Wait, was I know we watched Civil War like not that long ago. Was he in Civil War?

SPEAKER_06 1:03:56

He was in Civil War. He was the like running the UN prison where they were locking people up.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

Yeah, he was the man who was mad at Captain America in Civil War. Was he played by the same actor?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:10

Yep. Yes. It was Martin Freeman both times.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

Yep. Obviously made no impact to me whatsoever. I was clearly just watching Buff Bucky.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:19

This is what I'm saying. You don't need to have seen Civil War to understand this guy. You can jump in fresh on he's a guy from the CIA who knows who T'Challa is.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

Yeah. I cannot believe he was in Civil War. But I like Civil War.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:36

It's a movie I know like numerous times. So bringing Martin Freeman back for this feels like a correction to how I identified Sterling K. Brown in the cold open of this movie, which is it's one of those this is the role you gave to that actor moments. Like you got Sterling K. Brown into the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and that's his role is T'Challa's brother who dies in the first scene and comes back for a Land of the Ancestors chat with Killmonger, where he realizes he taught his son the wrong lessons, or allowed his son to pick up the wrong lessons, but doesn't really have the time to correct that. He's just a brief ghostly visitation.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:19

That's the problem with being a ghost. You can't solve your your life's errors. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:23

It's gonna bug me all night if I don't say it. The common joke about the fact that the only two white actors of note were Martin Freeman and Andy Circus.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Glorious. Yes. Yes, they are working.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:42

Yes. Another note from the Cold Open. The guy who plays the young version of Forrest Whitaker's character gets the Forest Whitaker squint down.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

He does. He does. And then when they bring it back, you're like, oh my god, that's a Forrest Whitaker eye. Yes! And I I feel like when you see Forrest Whitaker as like priest who does ceremony, you like before the reveal, you're kind of like Well that that's James, right? That's James. We named him earlier. Exactly. And they also but they also give enough time, like between the open of the movie to the challenge of when we see Forrest Whitaker to be like, I don't remember anything from prior. Prior doesn't matter. That little kid that looked up at the spaceship, we're never going to need him again. He's not important. That was a big reason. He will not become Michael B. Jordan. Killmonger being that little kid gets me every time. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:47

And becomes him again for his ghost walk when he's taking the heart-shaped herb.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:53

But like this movie does those so well. So well. Where you're like, this, and then it like turns and you're like, that? Like, it's so well done. It's so well done. Because exactly. He's forced Whitakerine his eyeball the whole time. And it's not until they do a cutback that you're like, oh my god. And like we have to imma we have to acknowledge the incredible work that Chadwick Boseman does. Oh. In a Marvel movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:28

As I said two episodes ago, in a different timeline, you absolutely believe he would have been the linchpin of the multiverse saga.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:38

Mm-hmm. It's just uh Chadwick Bozeman, he's so good. And it's just like And like he was all he was already sick when he was filming this movie. He just hadn't told anyone. And he le there's no indication. Like he is No, he's so good. And he does two more movies.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:57

You can see he's lost a lot of weight by Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, but there's no hint of it here.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:03

What I've often labeled as the biggest problem with Wakanda Forever is that it was he leaves such a hole because he was so great in this role that it can't help but feel like the sequel is oops all supporting characters.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

Controversial statement. They probably shouldn't have made the movie. And it's a hard thing to do when you have like the money backing the movie to be like, well, we're already rolling forward. He happened to pass away. And you're like, yeah. He was very sick. He was very, very sick. But he is so good. No one else could do it. And you skirted around that.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:47

I think they handled as well as they could have.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:49

They could have, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:51

Maybe doing a like 45-minute one-shot to Disney Plus about the family dealing with the loss and then kicking off the movie a month later with the actual story.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:03

Because a two-hour 45-minute runtime doesn't help a lot of movies.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

No.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:09

Except for other things on our episode today.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

But that's what happens when Disney and Marvel come together.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:18

Yeah, they wanted this move. They wanted that sequel. They wanted that sequel so bad. And Ryan Kipler had to figure out how to do that. And he did it as well as could be expected.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

He sure did. You know what? I bet he was real sad that Killmonger died. I bet. Yeah. Because honestly, that battle on the waterfall. And then he's just sitting there watching the sunset. Sunrise. He's watching the sun.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:44

It was a sunset.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

So good. It's so good. But also when he takes off his shirt, because we only see his arm before, like and he's like, this is everybody of killed. Every notch.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

And then he takes off his shirt. Which also Michael B. Jordan. Oh, he is he's jack like hot. In Sinners, he's like thick muscular. In this movie, he is super. You you know he did not drink a drop of water in like the three days running up to filming the scene. And that sucks for him. But he hot. It does look good. He hot. And he takes up his shirt, and it's just all the entire body, the scars, and you're like, oh, that's how many people killed. But also, you're real hot. You're real hot.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:40

Another piece of internet lore, a woman confessed to Twitter, as it was still called, that when he took his shirt off, she clenched her teeth so hard she broke her braces and had to get emergency dental work because she was so thirsty she destroyed her orthodontics. And that became so viral, Michael B. Jordan showed up and said, I feel I should chip in. And paid like at least half the dental bills. Like, I feel a little responsible.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:12

Michael B. Jordan, you didn't have to. What a goodness! You did not have to do that. You're hot? No, you're just so freaking hot. It's not just his body. It's like his smile, his earnestness, and his charisma. Yeah. Like even when he's in museum mode where he's like got the glasses and the weird like top bun thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:39

Oh yeah. He had he had me write on nah, British soldiers stole it in Benin, but this is from Makonda.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:46

And then he's like, nah, I'll take it off your hands. Oh. Oh, oh boy. Oh.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:53

And then Kyle's like, is the mass vibranium too? Nah, I'm just feeling it. Like, that's an incredibly cool line, but I know I'm too white to try to work that into my lexicon.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:03

You know, he, Michael B. Jordan, we love you. Yeah, we love you. You know, you you can do anything on screen. It's fine. It's fine, baby. Yeah. Yeah. You good. You good. We got you, boo. We got you.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:18

Sure, you were fine in Space Jam remake. I'm trying not to find out, but I can't avoid a free.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

He was great in Space Jam. I don't care. He greatly. I didn't see it, but it's I bet he's good. He's great. He's great. Michael B. Jordan, we'd love you in Space Jam the Remake.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:35

He listens to us, obviously. He needs our validation.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:41

You know, he was feeling kind of good about the Oscar, but now that we've shouted him out, I think he's really going to be confident in his place in the system.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:50

Now the two white blonde ladies are like, Michael B. Jordan, we love you. He's like, yeah, obviously, yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:59

Took over one of the most beloved franchises of the 80s, made it his own, and got a full trilogy out of it. And counting. But yeah, Claire and Aaron say you're okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:09

So look, we love to objectify men. He is the next one on our list. He great. So Michael B. Jordan. Hello. You can what did I say? Where I was like, you can live in my house.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:25

You can come to my house.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:27

I would in my house, yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:30

70s Robert De Niro and 2010s, 2020s, Michael B. Jordan can come to your house.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

Um, yes, correct. Come to my house.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

We're here now. This is what's happened. Black Panther, great movie. Michael B. Jordan come to my house.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:49

Also, just want to say Lapita Nyango, great, as T'Challa's ex-girlfriend, Black Ops agent, Nakia.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:56

She's so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

Oh, yeah, she can come to my house too.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

Yeah, yeah. Also come to my house.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:02

I love that she figured out what the Killmonger crew were up to when they were breaking cloud of just uh two minutes too late to actually stop it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:12

Yeah. This this movie is so well cast. Oh my gosh. So well acted. And then so the ending is so good when they decide to do outreach and they go back to the basketball court.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:27

The very same basketball court.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:29

Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. It's also like, cause they lead up to it. It's like the the movie of nuggets, where they're like, well, this is what your father wanted, and he's like, is it? And then he has a dream slash in the sand about his father, and he's like, it might be what my father wanted. And then Angela Bassett is like, yo, I don't know. I don't know. He my husband, but I don't know. Can we talk about how cool and creepy the mountain men are, and then like very chill when you see them just in their home court?

SPEAKER_06 1:15:07

Yeah, because Mbaku's character in the comics is named Man Ape, and he is a super villain. So you are braced for Imbaku to not be the best guy. But then he turns out to actually be the best guy. Love that whole silence colonizer or I'll feed you to my children. I'm kidding, we're vegetarians.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:28

I love the jabaris. They're so cool. They're so good. I also love how they're set up prior. Yeah. Cause in the voiceover at the beginning, where they're setting up like Wakanda and how all the tribes are set up, and they're like the Jabaris went into the mountain and reached the water. Went into the mountains. Yeah, and it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:50

Cause he's just like, Yeah, no, we're gorilla people that live in the mountains. What did you expect? That's who we are.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:59

I'll show up and challenge you for a kingdom, but if I lose, we're just going back to the mountains and screw y'all.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:06

Yeah, it's so good. It's so good.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:08

And then they get their heroes' entrance when it looks like the scrappy band are gonna be overwhelmed by the the border tribe and their war rhinos.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:17

Because they said they weren't gonna fight, but then they fought. Oh, I love that the rhino stops because of love.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:25

He knows that lady.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:28

It's like, no. I like her.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:31

Rhino had more sense than Daniel Kaluga's character in that one. Like, Rhino, you need to stop this because Okoye said no.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:38

Yeah, he likes, no no no. I like her. She's your lady. Mm-hmm. And it's like, yes, she is your lady. I meant she is. Daniel Kaluga just needs a little bit of time when he realizes that his love will kill him for Wakanda. And he's like, oh no, I've messed up. Shh she a hundred percent will. She is correct if I'm wrong. His rhino is like, yo, dude. I told you you were wrong. Yeah. No. Love it. She's great. They're all great. They're all great. Everybody's great.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:12

The rhino is a good dog. And a little embarrassingly white to shout out Ross specifically in the climax, but his refusal to leave the virtual plane while the lab is under attack hits for me the same way as the bomb expert from Die Hard 3 who wouldn't leave the school.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:28

I mean, yes. The thing is, you love a nebish nerd who is out of his depth, who's like, no, no, I have to see this through. I'm not a combat boy, but now I am.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:41

I have to protect people. This is how I can do that, and if I die, I die.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:46

Yeah. And it's it's what we want from this style of movie. It's all been set up. It's not a surprise. I was thinking this movie is so satisfying. It hits all the beats you want. Yep. But it hits all of them in a new way.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:04

And of course, Afrofuturism, not made for me, but still so very cool. Just the idea of what if African society had just been allowed to evolve the same way white society was.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:18

Oh, well, Conda is so frickin' cool. And I think that's what makes this movie like just tip over the edge, is it's so frickin' cool. We get everything that's that's awesome. Yeah. And it's so good.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:38

It's aspirationally cool in a way that underwater kingdoms aren't, because any attempts of us to live in giant underwater cities are just gonna go full Bioshock, and we all know it.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:48

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, and the first so the image of them flying into Wakanda. Because we know about Wakanda from it, like if you know the comic books, you know about Wakanda.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:02

We didn't see it in the last movie other than Exactly Bucky going into the lab.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:08

And if we don't know prior, this is our first experience, and it's so frickin' cool. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:18

Um skyscrapers with thatched roofs, man in an elegant business suit and giant lip disc.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:24

Yeah, the the styling is so cool. The blend of like traditional tribal sound and battle techniques with the futuristic, like high-tech stuff. It's so cool. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:40

They all have spears, but they're all vibranium spears and cloaks that become energy shields and whatnot. So it totally makes sense. Like I'm staring at Clow's crew, going, guns. So primitive.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:54

And like that brings us back to Killmonger's point of view, where you're kind of like, yeah, you know what? Like, you guys did have all of this, and you have done nothing with it. And I know the Wakandans don't see the world as their people. Mm-hmm. But like Killmonger's point of view is not wrong. He just goes about it in like the worst way anyone ever could, which is the best villain in a movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:18

It's a great villain to have. You're not wrong, you're just being wrong about what how you're doing it. Yeah. Like, okay, Riddler and the Batman had some really good points. Probably didn't need to flood the city and try to kill the new mayor, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:34

Exactly. Oh man, what a perfect movie. Oh, so good. It's so good. And like I said, I'd never seen it before, and I wa I was like, I love this.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:44

I love this so much.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:46

There are people who like to complain about the CG and the final fight between Tichella and Kilimon.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:50

I do not care.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:52

Me neither. Maybe ten years of the Aeroverse have just permanently lowered the bar for me with Acceptable CG. But even watching, it's like it doesn't even look that ropey to me. I don't understand the complaint.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:04

No, it's fine. It is fine. It is great.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:08

Just feels like one of those things where they're saying it so that they can say, it's not because I'm racist, I just prefer Infinity War.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:17

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:18

The same way a year after this movie, they would be saying, I'm not I don't hate Captain Marvel because I'm a sexist. Look how much I like Alita Battle Angel. To the point where I still can't tell if any enthusiasm for Alita Battle Angel is real. I assume it has actual fans, but so many people are using it as a shield to be sexist to set Captain Marvel that I I can't parse it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:42

No, this movie is so good. I had not, like I said, I had not seen it before. This is my first time, and I'm like, I I feel like the only OG because you know how like each of the Marvel superheroes have like their OG movie.

unknown 1:21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:59

I think the only one that's like in the running that I like as much, and I think I like it less, is the first Captain America. Because there's something about the 1940s aesthetic, there's something about his like 1940s crew, like his friend with the mustache and his Brooklyn boy. And like there's something about that that like really speaks to me. But that's the only one that's like as high as this. The first Iron Man, meh. The first Thor, let's be real. The first Thor is the worst Thor. I love Thor movies. The first one's the worst movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:31

The first Thor is aggressively mid.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:34

Mm-hmm. Yeah. What are the other first ones? We can't talk about Hulk. That doesn't exist. No.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:40

I talked about Hulk Unrecovered. You can find that episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:43

But like this, this first the first Avengers. Like the first Avengers were like the they all come together and the Yeah, where they actually where it's not just Captain America. I think this is first Avengers. Come for me, Internet. I don't care. No, no, this is so freaking good.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:03

The third act has emotional stakes all around, and it's not just an infinite battle against faceless minions in a magical space rock.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:11

Right. They run out of people. There's only so many bad guys on internet. And there's only so many good guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:18

The Border Tribe does not have infinite respawn.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:22

I also love that it's a sibling movie. It is. Like, even though they're cousins, they're siblings. Yeah, and it's like that system of like brother, sister, like you have to do this. And she's like, Well, you're my big brother and I hate you. Like, it is so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:41

Their relationship is so good. Cause it's so true. It's so true. Even though they're all adults.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:51

I wrote the note Killmonger burning the heart-shaped herbs is a decision a writer makes when he doesn't know need to know he's gonna need to come up with a new Black Panther in the sequel. But honestly, the fact that it was hard to make a new Black Panther really helped Wakanda forever. The fact that it took some doing before they had a Black Panther who could stand against Namor. The mid-credit scene is an absolute double beat, but I think I don't know that any Marvel director has ever had less interest in end credit scenes than Ryan Kugler.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:29

He cares not.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:30

His mid-credit scenes, not just here, also in Cinners, are reliably just the actual end of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:38

Yes. Yeah, he's like, no, no, no, we're done now.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:41

He's done four minutes of credits in between, and now he's going back to where he left off.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:46

Oh, you made me do this?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:47

Okay, fuck you.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:48

More movie. Oh, okay, cool. We're done now. So this is setting up literally the next movie. It's just my movie, guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:59

This is what's happening. Sorry. Not so.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:03

Don't leave the theater. You'll miss important things.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:06

But also if you don't, it's fine.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:08

The second end credit scene was just for everybody saying, wait, where was Bucky during all this? He's like, he was over there.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:15

Yeah. He's right there. Bucky is over there. He's the white wolf. We'll get back to him literally in 10 minutes. I do like Bucky, but like I did not care about him in this movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:26

Yeah, I never once thought, where's Bucky?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:30

Also, because Bucky doesn't matter in any of the fight sequences. Okay, Bucky does not help. Okay, Bucky is not here. I'm just gonna say, I know he's the winter soldier. Does Bucky actually matter ever? Or does he matter more of more as a symbol? I'm just saying. No, because who matters is Captain America and how hot they can make Chris Evans be as Captain America when he's saving Bucky, and or is just Captain America.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:01

So I think on that note It's kind of just a MacGuffin in Civil War, and uh I'd like to say he's important in Thunderbolts, but I think he's coming in at least fourth under Yelena and Red Guardian and Bob.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:15

Oh my god, he's a human MacGuffin. He sure is. He really is. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:25

It's why very soon when we talk about him, he just disappears.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:30

Before we move on to that, Black Panther was nominated for seven Oscars, of which it won three. Costume, score, and production design, it lost pictures, songs, sound editing, and sound mixing.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:42

Yeah, because we were not ready. We were not ready for it. No, no, it can't. It's a superhero movie. It can't it can't win those.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:51

But the fact that it made the short list.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:54

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:56

And there were only eight nominees. We weren't at the ten nominees come hell or high water and for the love of God try to get a hit in their face that we would be three years from now.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:07

There were eight? What a random number. I know you said that, but I didn't like do the math on it.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:13

Up to ten tended to be eight in the 2010s. Okay. Saying, oh, they didn't have room to nominate this popular movie. It's like they had two empty splots. Last Jedi got passed over in exchange for PASS. But a few months after this, came Marvel's other big hit. After six years of failed attempts to have Underlings collect the legendary Infinity Stones, the mad Titan Thanos gets to work gathering them himself. After claiming the Power Stone from the Nova Corps, off screen, and the space stone from the remaining as Guardian refugees, he sends his top lieutenants to Earth to claim the time and minestones from the heroes who once were or would have been avengers. Which also doesn't work. Come on, Thanos, you know this. Send a lackey embarrassing failure. Here, go yourself, super easy, barely an inconvenience. Get your head in the game. Thanos battles the heroes of Earth and the Guardians of the Galaxy in his attempts to restore balance in the universe and prevent overconsumption of resources by wiping out half of all life. There's one thing planetary populations do, it's stay the same size forever. Perfect plan, no notes, not just a desperate flailing stopgap measure or anything. And don't worry, it's only part one of two, if you think about the ending even a little. Infinity War.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:32

Okay. Okay, so I Yes, you go. Mmm. Infinity War was a highly sought-after, anticipated movie, and now watching it in the Year of Our Lord, 2026. Um They spin their wheels a lot, huh? They sure do. They want to introduce everybody. However, also I was in I've seen it many a time before. But also, I was really mad when I watched it the most recent time. And I'm like, I agree with Thanos.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:10

Get rid of all those people.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:12

Just get rid of everybody. Half of everybody, I don't care. Get rid of them. But Claire's take is hotter than mine. My hot take is just like Thanos was right.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:26

Come at me, Thanos.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:29

A lot of Marvel fans, especially on Reddit, will cite Infinity War as the best Avengers movie in one of their top Marvel movies. But I feel a lot of them are falling into that category we talked about last episode of Badass Yes No is kind of their primary, if not only, defining feature. Because a lot of them will talk about the action beats, and a lot of the big action sequences are cool and they're a lot less brown than the next Avengers movie that we'll talk about in two weeks. But I don't feel that they have the same visceral impact on Rewatch for me, because this movie is really concerned with making sure every big character gets to do something cool at some point in the movie. Except Vision, arguably.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:17

Well, he gets to die. He does. And he gives up his life. And he gets to be on camera without his vision makeup on. That's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:25

They did give Paul Bettney a day's break from the makeup. But the thing is that none of the cool stuff matters because Thanos gonna Thanos.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:33

Yeah. So that was the thing that I felt like on this watch is I was just like, okay, so we're just gonna put together the combination we think is the most interesting, and then everyone gets to go on a journey to find Thanos, and then they're just gonna like pop it. It's like a DD campaign where it's like each group just gets to be like, ha ha, my turn to fight Thanos in the endgame. Woohoo! It's also so Endgame is so well set up by Doctor Strange that there's you can't not see it coming.

unknown 1:31:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:12

Because Doctor Strange literally not even like halfway through the movie, he does his thing where he's like sorting through different timelines, and Mantis is like Does he normally do that?

SPEAKER_06 1:31:24

Yo, he does Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:27

And Doctor Strange is like, yo, there's literally one outcome. But we know, we know that that's going to happen in the next movie. It's not gonna happen in this movie, because this movie is already like an hour 45 in. So it's not going to happen here.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:48

Yeah, and they may have backed away from Infinity War Part 1 and Part 2 because of what happened to Mocking J and Allegiant, but we still know. It's still one and two.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:01

Yeah. It's still one and two.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:03

There was some desperate flailing from Kevin Feike saying, no, no, no, no, no. It's not a cliffhanger. This is a self-contained movie. Infinity War is Thanos' story and it ends with his victory. And I'm like, sir, no. The only way this isn't a cliffhanger is if there was any chance it would stick and not be undone in the next Avengers movie. And I'm sorry, everybody who got dusted in the snap had a sequel in the hopper.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:33

Now, let's be real, they did do the Joss Sweden thing. I know Joss Whedon is not involved in this particular project.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:40

Although they do say that they modeled Thanos to look like him in a bit of a fuck you.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:44

But like they did the Joss Whedon thing where they're like, okay, we're gonna kill a beloved character, obviously, really early on, and that's where they kill uh Loki immediately.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:55

And Heimdall, let's I know that's more heartbroken. Everybody loves Idris Elba.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:02

But that's also the Joss Whedon thing, right? Like they give one character a big moment where they die, like very obviously, and then it's like, okay, spoiler alert for this audience for the see the series finale of Buffy, which is like 20 years old now, I'm gonna say it. They kill um Anya in the final fight where they just like chop her head off, don't talk about it. That's what they did. They did the Joss Whedon thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:27

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:28

Because they kill someone with like a lot of fanfare, and then they kill also a beloved character with zero fanfare. That's what Joss Whedon does, and they do that ASAP in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:36

As if it sticks, though. Please, Loki is back for anything they want Loki for, because he's a god. Because he's a god.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:43

They just plucked an alternate Loki.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:46

Yeah. Thor flying through space, landing on the ship of the guardians of the galaxy, and then being like, I am Thor. Similar to I am Groot. And then meet my friend Tree.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:05

I love that Thor just speaks Groot.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:09

Thor Thor is my favorite. I we have watched so many Marvel movies now. I don't care. Thor is my favorite Avenger.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:16

Okay, so this is a thing that I came across on threads recently, describing how some people misattribute one thinking that a movie feels one character is right when they shouldn't. Saying that every movie has a protagonist, a hero, and a star, but they're not always the same person.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:35

Yep, I've heard that.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:37

And in this case, I would say Infinity War is a great example that the protagonist is Thanos, the hero is Thor, and the star is Robert Downey Jr.

unknown 1:34:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:50

Not Arthur Robert Downey Jr.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:53

It's He's in the B plot.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:56

You're correct. No, it's it's why Captain America, aka Chris Evans, because they have three Chris's in this movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:04

They have maximum hands.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:09

It's because we don't care about Captain America in this one. Claire. He's not the hot one. Oh my god, you made that point. Also, Chris Pratt is in his least hot in this movie. He is his least hot version version of Chris. Version of a Star Lord. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:25

He did Guardians won. He got super buffed for that. And then he started letting himself go to go back to parks and recreation.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:32

And then he was like, yeah, I don't have time to fix it. I can't. I can't. Please write around in the script, guys. Uh yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:40

So they put that in, like, you're what you're one sandwich away from fat.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:44

Which is a glorious line.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:46

Honestly, every line that they have when he's on their ship, perfect. Jealous Star Lord is so.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:56

James Gunn has an executive producer credit. I have heard it said, and I can't verify this unless I ask him on threads and he feels like answering, that he did oversee Guardian scenes to make sure everybody was functioning in character.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:11

Totally correct. And they they are. They feel like a Guardians movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:16

Tracks being imperceptibly still.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:20

You're eating a Zag nut! Go, I'm moving so slowly you can't see me.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:25

You didn't notice. So good.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:30

Perfect.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:31

So gold. For me, who like the action sequences fine, but don't think of the BL end all of my cinematic experience, especially when the payoff is sorry, Bant Thanos. The strength of this movie is that it gives us these character pairings that they've never been able to do before and for reasons can't do anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:53

Like Tony Stark and Doctor Strange constantly fighting to have the biggest ego in the room. Gold. Love it. And Peter Parker in there has just Jimmy Jelliker's comic relief. Thor and Rocket is good.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:08

Oh my god. When um Peter Parker is on Titan and he's trying to like save all the Guardians, and he's like, hey, whoop, ooh, I don't know your name! I forget what your name was, but I got you. It's so good. It's also it's such like a beautiful scene, because it's been set up in previous movies of him like loving Tony kind of as a daddy. Idolizing him. He's his daddy. He doesn't have a dad, but he has Mr. Stark, and he calls him Mr. Stark and Sir. And when it's so cute and it's so sad in this movie, because spoiler alert. Thanos gets all the infinity stones and then snaps. What? Spoiler! Thor didn't grab his head. No, for the head!

SPEAKER_06 1:37:59

Or even the elbow!

SPEAKER_02 1:38:00

No, he went for literally chest!

SPEAKER_06 1:38:03

Yeah, throwing an axe from like half a mile away, you aim for center mass.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:08

Guys, Thor is hot and dumb. He's so dumb, but he's so sweet. He's my he's calls he's my favorite movie. Like that type is my favorite movie, book boyfriend. No, it's so great.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:21

Plus, Chris Hemsworth does such a great job of smiling through deep trauma on the Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:27

Yes. Yeah, Chris Hemsworth, we love you. We have three Chris's in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:33

Hemsworth, you good. Usually Evans is my favorite, but oh boy. But Hemsworth, love you.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:40

I think in the press tour on this one, they were asking all the stars, their PG for broadcast television version, Mary, kiss, kill Evans, Hemsworth, and Pratt. And everybody else is hemming and hawing and trying to figure out the best answer. Gets a Tom Holland. Immediately, off the top of his head, Mary, Pratt, kiss Hemsworth, kill Evans. Sorry, Evans.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:07

It's just a pause and then sorry, Evans, that really sold it.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:11

I do also love, so we have a joke in our show that Steve is barely a name.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:20

And I could not help thinking about it every time Captain America's like, Steve, or somebody else is like, Steve, we have to call Steve Rogers. And I was like, Steve is barely a name.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:33

It is just less impressive to say we gotta call Steve.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:38

Thank you. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:41

Barely a name. I know these characters don't feel like they're on your radar for your notes here, but would I would just love to know what either or both of you called Thanos's four main henchmen.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:55

Uh well, there is a witch woman. Yep. I like Lady, badass lady. Slender Man. Religious Slender Man. Uh however, I didn't call him Slenderman, because Slender Man is also like an actual being in like culture. I called him Creepy Man with magical power.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:16

Creepy man with magical power. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:18

Yeah, yep. There was like Big Dark Hulk.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:21

Big Dark Hulk, yep. Spot on.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:23

Yep.

unknown 1:40:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:24

Yeah, and then the other one. And then there's the guy who got killed early on. That yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:30

Okay, so this is the Black Order. Henchman of Thanos created by writer Jonathan Hickman, one of his big Avenger sagas. And he named them by grabbing a bunch of 30-point Scrabble words and just throwing them into a blender.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:45

Perfect.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:46

Cool Lady one, who's voiced by Carrie Kuhn from Fargo Season 3, is Proxima Midnight. What? I couldn't make that up if I wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:57

I mean, that's cool that's basically Cool Lady one.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:02

And her boyfriend is Corvus Glave, whose superpower is Sucker Punch, and whose Kryptonite is Woman with Pointed Stick.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:12

Okay. I didn't even know they were a boyfriend girlfriend.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:16

They seem it a little. And it's a little ridiculous and hilarious looking back that these two basically walk all over Vision and Scarlet Witch, who will be revealed to be two of the most powerful Avengers available. Like the things we learn about what Scarlet Witch is capable of, and she can barely hold her own here. And then they get worked by two of the non-powered Avengers. This is like the biggest, this is why Hawkeye gets to be an Avengers moment, and he's not even here.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:48

No, no, he comes in later, which we'll talk about when we talk about endgame.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:53

Corvus Glave is this bad at fighting anybody who sees him coming that Black Widow drops him in about four seconds with his own stick. No, with Proxima Midnight stick. She steals his stick. Still. Because she threw it at the wrong guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:11

Of course.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:12

Very cool entrance for Captain America. I'll give them that. It was cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:17

The big floaty magicy spooky one is named the Obsidian Maw.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:23

Oh no, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:24

That's the closest they come to saying one of their names on screen. I take it the Maw is dead.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:30

Oh, they do say that, yes. They do. And when they like subtitle it, because I watch these with subtitles. And that's what they say for him.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:42

In the comics, he actually has no powers. He's the one of those he's the least powerful, but the most dangerous because he's always scheming kind of a guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:53

A classic vibe, yep. Yeah. In this one, though, he has literally all powers.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:58

They just give him hella telekinesis and he still dies first.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:02

Yep. Yeah, he's like, I'm great, and they're like, shrunk.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:05

He was like, uh I mean, my power is greater than yours, yeah, but the kid seen more movies was cute.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:12

It's a great line. It's really good.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:15

As was the best encapsulation of the initial action beat. He's from space. He came here to steal a necklace from a wizard.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:23

Yep. Oh boy. Tony Stark. Tony Stark is just gonna say a thing. Also, this is why Captain America is not hot in this movie. Because this movie is actually not about Captain America. It's about aliens. It's about aliens. So we're gonna give Steve Rogers a beard and a weird haircut, and he's going to be there. I I will say the bit where Thor points out that he has a beard is very cute. Because this is a Marvel movie, so the banter is always gonna be on point. No, that is great. And we know which Chris we're here for. It's Hemsworth. It is Hemsworth. That's the Chris we're here for. Oh, when he puts in his fake eye, so good. So good.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:10

Takes him a minute to get it aligned right, and even then he doesn't think it's working because the mid school forge is out. I've I'm just now noticing how few notes I have once everything starts happening in Wakanda.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:23

Now they did think they were very, very, very clever. The cleverest boys at school when they cast um when they cast Peter Peter Dinklage.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:35

Peter Dinklage. They thought they were so clever. Giant?

SPEAKER_06 1:44:38

A dwarf who is giant.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:40

Yep. It's so good.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:42

So he's like a he's a mythologically accurate dwarf. He's still a big, big boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:46

Peter Dinklage is a delight anytime he is on screen. He is a phenomenal actor, and he is full of charisma because he's in a marvel Marvel movie, so of course he's full of charisma.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:56

He is trying to go full Shakespearean tragedy on this role, with the exception of it'll kill you. Only if I die. Yes! That's what killing you means.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:09

Oh god. It's so good. I love Thor so much, guys. Thor? No.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:14

I also like when he's trying to steal the pod, and he's like, it's a four-digit code. Maybe a birth date. Tell me what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:24

He's just trying to type in numbers on the like pad to steal the escape pod. And he's like, tell me.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:34

And they're like, no, we will not. Wait.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:38

Can we also talk about how Bruce Banner, like, obviously the stakes are very high in this movie. Bruce Banner is finally having a good time in this movie. Bruce Banner has never had a good time doing anything ever. No. But boy does he like being in that mech suit.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:53

He's bounding around in the Veronica, I believe they call the Hulk buster suit. He's having a blast.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:00

He's having the greatest. I also love that he one day he's like, Hulk, come on. And Hulk's like, no. He's like, okay. Okay, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:11

What? We're gonna have to have a talk. We're gonna have to have a talk again.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:16

He and Thor, or sorry, he and Hulk are going to couples therapy.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:20

Yeah. It's great. It's so good.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:22

Thorussos did not mean for that arc to be Hulk is afraid of getting his lunch money stolen by Thanos a second time. But they cut the resolution to the arc that showed what Hulk's actual deal was.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:35

What is he afraid of, Dan?

SPEAKER_06 1:46:36

Apparently, this is thing this is what happens in a deleted scene. It's not that he's afraid. It's that he's annoyed that people, excluding Banner, only like him when there's a crisis. He's tired of being everyone's last resort. However, it's not in the movie, and deleted scenes aren't canon. So if you want to read it as he's afraid of Thanos, you get to. Sorry, Russos. Yeah, yeah, could have spent another two minutes on that instead of time jumping over the actual resolution to all this.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:09

Poor big boy. Poor guy.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:13

He just wants people to like him for him. He got that for two years on Sakar.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:19

Well, he doesn't have to worry because, not to spoil anything, but I know what happens in Endgame. We all know what happens in Endgame.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:27

Next time we see Full On Hulk, he has Banner's mind in Hulk's Braun, which feels a little like the Hulk personality just got deleted. But who's to say?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:36

Well, I will say, this is we've talked about this before, but this is the middle movie.

unknown 1:47:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:44

We know. Because legit Doctor Strange says we're in the endgame.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:51

He says it out loud. Still spent like six months pretending that wasn't gonna be the name of the next movie. Right? Yeah, no. He says it.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:00

We know. We know what's happening. Do you also think that maybe Hulk just doesn't come out because Banner's not mad anymore? Like he says in The Avengers that he's angry all the time, but it is very clear in this movie he is no longer angry. That's why Hulk isn't coming. He went to the therapy. He went to the like lodge in the middle of nowhere. He fought in the gladiator ring. Yeah. He's fine now. He was only there at the beginning of this movie to be the Hulk because we needed a cool action sequence.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:37

Also, that is how you introduce your big bad. Right? Yeah. The first thing Thanos does is he has decimated the As Guardians and he smacks Hulk around like dodgeball in fifth period or whatever. Metaphor for beating up somebody tied to your own schoolhood drama. That is how you do it. That's how you establish a threat. Whereas if this were Zack Snyder, we would have introduced Thanos by having him get absolutely rinsed by Red Skull or Ronan the Accuser.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:05

But Red Skull is just here to prophesize and get Thanos to throw Gamora off cliff.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:14

Sounding a cute little Easter egg. They get Red Skull back, but not Hugo Weaving.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:18

He's busy. Yeah, Hugo Weaving's doing other stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:22

I don't think he liked being in the first Captain America and wasn't interested in being Red Skull again.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:27

Look, I'm the only person who likes the first Captain America. Oh no, I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:32

Because once again, my only criteria is how hot is Captain America?

SPEAKER_02 1:49:38

Okay, and the first Captain America, which we didn't get to talk about, he is so when he like so when he scales up from Honestly, he's kind of hot when he's five foot four Captain America. But the one he scales up to full size per sevens, baby. So hot. So yeah, no, I'm here for it. I'm here for this, because that's literally my. My only criteria. Yeah, but we we like short-haired Chris Hemsworth, right? And his big shoulders. Yeah. No. And his being a god. I love it. And Rocket being like, no, that's a hot man. That's the hot guy. He's a hot man.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:16

You're a dude. This is a man.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:19

Yeah. Correct. Because once again, we cannot. This is why Chris Evans has a full beard and weird hair.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:28

It's because we don't care about Captain America in this movie, so he can't be the hot one. The hot one in this movie is Thor. Thor is the hot one. We have to we have three Chris's. We have to pick the hot one.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:45

This one is Thor. So they just put that little extra emphasis on his arc.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:55

They're not wrong. He he does almost nothing in the first Avengers. And the Age of Ultron also does basically nothing.

unknown 1:51:03

Correct.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:04

He goes to a hot tub and has a vision about stones, but that can't be anyone's favorite part of the movie, even if he does take his shirt off.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:12

His individual movies, I would say, are across the board kind of my favorite. Obviously, Thor one is mid. But the the Dark Elf one and then Ragnarok, I love both of them. I love them a lot. I don't know the name of the first one, but I don't care.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:30

Ragnarok's a- it's just Thor. It is literally just Thor. Yeah. Ragnarok is a Stone Cold classic. And I will not have it be smirched just because some people didn't like Love and Thunder as much.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:41

No, it's because we, as a society, have chosen our hot Chris's. And that's what we went with. He's also really hot in Isn't it Romantic? Which is the uh the rom-com movie where the woman who plays Fat Amy, Rebel Wilson. Rebel Wilson gets hit on the head and goes into a rom com. And boy, is Chris Hemsworth delightful in that too. That man can do no wrong. Chris Hemsworth, as a person with his brother, have a whole foundation where they clean up the oceans in Australia.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:19

Good for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:20

And they like pick plastic out of the oceans to save turtles. They're good boys.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:26

Chris Hemsworth, we love you.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:28

And his wife is Dom's baby mama in Fast the Furious 5 through 8.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:33

Correct. Yes. He can do no. I watched one of those.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:38

You definitely watched one of those. We made you.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:40

You did. Yes, you did, because we talked about it. I forgot it was in Brazil. You can forget about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:47

How can you forget? Dom shouting, you forgot where you are. Brazz!

SPEAKER_02 1:52:54

I can't, guys. I just like one thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:57

I worry about that every time I see the giant Jesus sculpture. The thing is a giant Dom Toretto shouting, Brazil!

SPEAKER_02 1:53:05

I mean, that's what I think of. Also, Groot is Vin Diesel. It's true. And he just yells, Brazil, and that's all I am Groot means is Brazil. I know we said this earlier. Family. But when Thor introduces Captain America to his new friend, Tree. Even though he understands I am Groot.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:32

I am Groot. I am Steve Rogers.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:36

That's also such a good moment. Also because it's literally in the middle of a battle.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:43

He's so polite and so earnest. He's like, I must introduce myself.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:46

Means our next movie that's gonna have the best reaction to Rocket Raccoon, but we'll get to that.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:52

We will. His name is Steve Rogers, everyone. We have not talked about this yet.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:58

It's a very white boy name.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:00

The most white boy. White boy from New York. From the Bronx. He's from the Bronx. But he does not have an accent, unlike Vigo Mortensen.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:10

Oh, he had so much accent, but he had to be uh he had to be an Italian Bronx guy. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:15

Well he did, because the Bronx in Italy, that makes sense. Whereas Steve Rogers was um kidnapped by the government.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:27

I mean, I g I guess he was in ICE for a long time, so I guess you lose your accent if you're in ICE for a long time. Yeah. Without a shirt. I mean, let's never forget he did not wear a shirt for all of Captain America the first Divinion.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:42

I do have one random tie-in comment to a very different Marvel movie we won't talk about. But I think there's the Doctor Strange views every future thing gets retroactively improved against armchair nitpickers if you watch Eternals. Oh. Because now my theory that it was canon until Kevin Fige tells me that it isn't, is that Doctor Strange is checking all these possible futures, figuring out how to how they beat Thanos, and every future where they stop him on Titan or even in Wakanda, Earth blows up six months later. And he doesn't know why. Because he never survives long enough to find out why. That makes sense. He can only see to the end of his own timeline. So he's like, okay, we beat Thanos on Titan, but then Earth blew up. Okay, we just tried chopping off half of his arm. Then we locked him in his cell here on Titan, ran off with all the stones, and the Earth blew up. What's the deal? Okay. I found one way in which we defeat him after he uses the stones, and then we retake the stones, and then we do all of this stuff to defeat him on Earth five years from now, and then the Earth doesn't blow up. Okay. It's gotta be the one. Alright. Don't warn anybody that Star Lord is gonna have feelings about what happened to Gamora.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:56

It's fine. Okay, Star Lord does wreck everything, right? Because he is the biggest idiot in school.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:02

He does, although I argue Thanos just would have taken the gauntlet back two minutes later anyway. I mean Thanos would. Like most of in-game climax is trying to keep Thanos from putting on a glove, and the entire lineup of the Avengers are hilariously unsuccessful at doing that.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:19

Well, they're so much smaller than him. He is physically so much bigger.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:24

He's very big, he's a big boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:26

Big boy. But they it takes like seven of them to even try and pry a glove off of him.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:33

So And like Spider-Man and Tony in his armor, it's not like their weakest ones.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:41

No, no, it's a it's not one of the unpowered ones. It's not like Hawkeye's trying to do it.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:46

My god, could you imagine? It's just Jeremy Renner being like with these massive hands. Have you guys looked at his hands? They're huge! I can do it! And like, I know you have big hands, Jeremy Renner. Like his hands would fit in the glove. They're so huge. Stop, Jeremy Renner!

SPEAKER_06 1:57:07

Hawkeye would have fired a Pimtek arrow at the gauntlet, shrunk it down, mulched Thanos' hand in the process, and then just swallowed it or something. That's why they couldn't bring Hawkeye. The earth would have blown up in six months.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:23

No, but we will see Hawkeye shortly, because I know we have to talk about Endgame.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:29

Yes, because that's why everyone who gets dusted is someone who had a sequel in the hopper. Like Guardians Volume 3 was written, Black Panther 2 was not officially announced, but felt an inevitability because, as we have just learned, in the fact that we talked about it, it actually outgrossed Infinity War in the US and Canada. Yep. And Spider-Man Far From Home was already filming.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:57

So As if you're not making more Spider-Mans. Tom Holland is.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:02

As if you're not.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:03

He is the cutest Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:05

They weren't gonna make one movie with Tom Holland Spider-Man and then segue to Miles Morales. That was not gonna happen. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:12

No.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:13

They did animated movies with Miles Morales and felt that they had all the time in the world to finish the third one. Yeah. But the next one was gonna be this one was about let's get everybody involved. And as such, everybody had about three minutes worth of stuff to do. And the next one is let's just drill back to the original Core Six Avengers.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:34

And the most charming men on earth.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:37

And Aaron's favorite, Roadie, and Ant-Man, and Rocket, and Nebula.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:41

Well, yes, because they alluded to them. But they made a specific point of being like, Ant-Man is also here, but not in this movie, because Paul Rudd is not here right now. Don't worry. Don't worry, he'll be back.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:01

Don't worry, Paul Rudd's coming back.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:03

I mean, he wasn't far away, as we're gonna cover in a second. But uh it was one of my favorite moments of Bruce Banner trying to catch up on the last two years, is there's a Spider-Man and an Ant-Man?

unknown 1:59:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:16

And my very last note was See, bitch, anyone could just dab someone from behind. You're not special. Yes. We might not remember to mention it next time because there's gonna be a lot to cover, but I am just gonna say uh Corvus Glaive goes down in about three seconds in the big fight. Akoye stabs and once and he goes down like a punk. Kryptonite, women with sharp sticks.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:43

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:44

Elsewhere in our top ten. So domestically Black Panther was first by $22 million over Infinity War at second. Number three, the first family of Pixar reunites as Elasticirl takes on a new villain while Mr. Incredible battles the diabolical foe that is new math and Incredibles too.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:01

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:02

Number four, cloning ain't just for dinosaurs anymore, as an underground dino auction exposes some family secrets in Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom. I'm pretty sure what that one's about. I only made it one movie in the Jurassic World, so this wasn't it. Number five, a different heir to the throne of a different hidden kingdom must stop a different angry relative from waging war on the outside world in Aquaman. Still a top five DCEU movie, top four for people who aren't me and didn't like the flash. Number six, Wade Wilson must bounce back from losing the love of his life in order to stop a time traveling cyborg from killing a mutant teenager, and stops said mutant teenager from becoming a world-ending threat in Deadpool 2.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:44

Number seven, Benedict Cumberbatch provides the voice as the makers of the minions turn Dr. Seuss's anti-Christmas icon into a lust object for Tumblr youths in the Grinch. Recovered episode 25, Grinches in the Art of Stealing Christmas sums it up. 8. Ethan Hunt's greatest adversary isn't quite done with him, while a new fanatic tries to engineer a global disaster in the hopes it brings world peace and Mission Impossible Fallout. Pre-COVID. Simpler times. We thought a massive disaster would unify people. 9. Marvel banks on everyone being really curious about what Scott Lang has been doing this entire time when they follow Infinity for with the admittedly very fun heist flick Ant Man and the Wasp.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:31

It is fun. Does it hold up? No. Is it fun? Yes. No.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:35

Part of the marketing was. So where was Ant-Man during all that?

SPEAKER_02 2:01:39

Where was Ant-Man? He's been snapped, obviously. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:45

And number 10, because audiences make great choices, Bohemian Rhapsody.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:49

Well, yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:51

It lost the title of highest grossing musician biopic to the wrong movie. Only Better Man deserves that, but came nowhere, knew it. Internationally, it's Ant-Man and the Grinch who travel the absolute worst, but we talked in an earlier episode about the Hollywood perception that black films don't travel. Well, Black Panther beat Infinity War at home by twenty-two million, but internationally Infinity War won by seven hundred million dollars. Oh wow. Meaning it still would have been the highest grossing film worldwide if it hadn't opened in the United States.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:27

But Black Panther still comes in second. Jurassic World up to third. Incredibles two at four. Aquaman hanging in at number five still crossing that billion dollar mark. Bohemian Rhapsody up to six somehow. Number seven, a reporter down on his luck makes an improbable friendship with a carnivorous blob in Venom. Mission Impossible at eight, Deadpool two at nine. And at number ten, the greatest dark wizard of the nineteen thirties is loose, and the one great hope to stop him is a neurodivergent zoologist in Fantastic Beasts, The Crime of Grindelwald. The most second chaptery, second chapter that ever there was. It's all exposition, no resolution.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:07

Yup, it sure is. I saw that movie. Yep. I saw that one in the time. It happened.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:13

For pairing, I feel like the Infinity Gauntlet colour calls for those seven layer drinks where you gradually pour seven colored alcohols on top of each other and they end up a rainbow.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:22

Yep. I just felt like these movies really called for like just like like three fingers of whiskey. Not a normal amount. That's no, no, no. That's how I felt as well.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:35

But also not an entire bottle of cutty sark, Dr. Shirley.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:39

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I have things to do. I am not a concert pianist. Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:45

I only play act as an alcoholic. I actually cannot drink that much whiskey in function for the next three days.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:51

No, guys, it's to imagine drinking a bottle of whiskey. It's too much whiskey. Your liver. It's it's gotta look like a pickle. It's too much. Too much.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:06

I I was having some emotions on a trip to Vancouver once and decided I wasn't gonna be able to get my remaining Crown Royal onto the plane anyway, so waste not what not. I was a wreck at breakfast.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:19

It was the wrong choice.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:21

Yep. I tweeted some very enthusiastic things about Scott Pilgrim at three in the morning. Glorious. In terms of accounting versus audience, I mean, obviously I'm gonna be team audience this week, because it isn't insulting to have either of the box office champions even in the conversation for Biggest Hit of the Year.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:40

Of the two, I do think Black Panther is the better one, and most importantly, it is a complete story.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:46

Mm-hmm. Correct. Yeah, it's Black Panther. Black Panther all the way up and down. Actually, Black Panther didn't make me want to drink whiskey. I did want to hydrate aggressively after watching that waterfall. Yeah.

unknown 2:04:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:00

Infinity War is the best Marvel movie ever. Have just let Kevin Feige think that he can once again release half a story this year with Doomsday, because we all know that's what it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:12

I don't know. I I've only seen Infinity War once before. Watching this time, I was like, it's not that good.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:18

No, no, Black Panther is the best.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:20

So many people on Reddit in my Twitter feed that summer were about re-watching Infinity War over and over again. I was like, no, I will watch this again the day before I see Endgame and not a moment sooner.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:32

Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, no, correct. It's like um oh no. Uh no, I I was gonna make a sex reference. It's cut this. Yeah, or keep it. I don't know. Edging. It's like edging yourself. Why are you gonna just keep edging yourself all summer?

SPEAKER_06 2:05:50

So at the end of the day, I can watch Endgame without Infinity War, but I watched Infinity War a couple days before we recorded. I'm gonna need to watch Endgame real fast.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:59

Oh, damn. I started Endgame as soon as I finished Infinity War. Cause that's what Disney wants me to do.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:07

If it hadn't been 12.30 at night, I might have started Wakanda Forever right after Black Panther. But it was late and I was out of wine.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:14

Fair. Fair. Oh boy. Okay, well, I'm real excited for next week. Oh next year.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:21

Next episode exists in conversation with this one because we talk about part two of two for the big adventures finale. And our best picture is lodded, is perhaps the most beloved best picture winner of the 21st century and close to of all time. But would it have won had people not been tweeting Green Book winning Best Picture sure as an aged well during the end credits of the Oscar ceremony?

SPEAKER_02 2:06:51

Guys, I have never watched the movie we get to watch for Best Picture next month, so I'm very excited. I know. It's so good.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:59

You're in for an experience. That's all I have to say. Except to say that we are writing Therapy Productions.com, and you can find all of our episodes and other projects there. And we're Oscar V audience on Threads, Instagram, and Blue Sky. Tell me why I'm wrong about Infinity War, and I'll tell you why you're wrong about She-Hulk, because I know you're one of them. I'm Dana Forth on all of those platforms, plus Letterboxd, where you can see how I feel these rank as box office champions, and how I think Green Book ranks as a best picture nominee of the 2010s, Black Panther 2.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:32

I'm Aaron. I'm over at EphlimusClan.com, and you can get to all of my socials there. And I'm Claire, and you can find me by following Dan or Aaron.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:41

Until next time, see you at the ceremony.