Academy Vs Audience

Ever since 1928, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences has handed out trophies to what it considered the best in film. Sometimes they were absolutely right, sometimes they were entirely wrong, sometimes they were so, so basic. But in all that time, audiences have had their own opinions, sometimes better, sometimes much worse. And sometimes, when the stars align or the fates allow, they even agree. Academy Vs Audience is a deep dive into Oscar history, revisiting film history from the 1920s to the 2020s; from the Studio Era to the age of the IP Franchise; from the age of the silent film to the age of the novelty silent film. Claire, Erin, and Dan take on each year’s Best Picture according to the Academy, and the Box Office Champ selected by audience dollars*. It’s a fascinating look at enduring classics and a descent into madness, because History Is Always Terrible and audiences make questionable choices.(*Based on revenue earned during its initial run, and the year said run began in. No re-releases. Lots of movies become audience favourites years after their initial release, you are not special, Billy Jack.)

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Academy Vs Audience

2019: Avenging Parasites

July 23, 2026 • Claire Bolton, Dan Gibbins, and Erin Weir • Season 9 • Episode 15

0:00 | 1:39:10

Is 2019 the apex year for Oscars and audience? Some say the Oscars made one of their best choices ever as embarrassment over Green Book caused voters to look overseas to South Korea, and Bong Joon Ho's class-warfare comedy-thriller Parasite, as a poor family worms their way into a wealthy family's life, only to find they were novices on an expert's turf. Audiences, however, were never going to choose anything but the big conclusion to 11 years of Marvel movies. Avengers: Endgame narrowed the focus from every character possible to the core six Avengers (and four friends) as they conduct a Time Heist to undo Thanos' victory, briefly claiming the all-time box-office record. Is Parasite the greatest Oscar winner? Is Endgame the best of the MCU? Claire, Erin, and Dan are here to find out.

Find all of our episodes and the rest of Writing Therapy Productions' various entertainments at www.writingtherapyproductions.com

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Since 1928, the Academy of Picture Arts decides its stand-it-out trophies what it considers the best films of the year. And all that time, audiences have had their own opinions. This is Academy vs. Audience. Rewatch all the best picture winners and the corresponding Fox Office Championship. I'm Dan Gibbons with Lee as Always is Aaron Weir. How's it going, Aaron?

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Dan, uh my brain is we closed a show very recently, and all of my coworkers left their jobs. So I'm doing awesome. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Oh, doing great. It's the peak of summer, and it's a wonderful time to be in the hospitality industry. I would legitimately some days rather deal with the grizzlies than the phones. And Claire Bolton, what's up, Claire?

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Oh, you know, hot on the heels of closing a show is Summer Camp! So that is what I am doing. It's week one. Kids cried. All sorts of things are going on. A girl almost ripped her toe off. It was gross. Well, don't do that. Yep. Yeah, she opened a door onto her foot. Had to pretend it wasn't as bad as it was. She's fine. She's gonna lose the nail, but she's fine. Summer camp, everyone. Summer camp. Summer camp.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Speaking of people crending up crying because of removed body parts. 2019. I'm not gonna explain that segue, but I'm going to stand by it, and we'll all just hope it works out. So in the wake of Green Book, Academy voters took a long hard look in the mirror and said, Maybe we need to be a lot less white for a little while, and by a little while I mean precisely one year. And thus became open to the idea that great cinema exists outside of the United States and United Kingdom. So Claire, tell us all about Parasite.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Alright. So, an encounter with a long I was gonna say lost, but lost isn't the true word for this friend, but for dramatics, we'll say lost. A chance encounter with a long lost friend brings a young man from a very poor neighborhood to the other side of town. And he is hired on as an English tutor for a very wealthy family's daughter, and he finds a way to infiltrate this family, bringing his sister, his mother, and his father all on board. They infiltrate, things go horribly wrong in ways nobody can imagine. There's dogs, there's froggin, there's brutal, brutal death, and a very awkward table scene parasite.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Just just real quick, real quick, did you say there's froggin?

SPEAKER_03 3:24

There's froggin. I did. It's where somebody lives inside your house unbeknownst to you. The term is froggin.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

I had not heard that term. I thought maybe there was some chance it had to do with finger blasting your wife on the couch while the servants are underneath it.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Okay, but does he finger blast her or does he just rub her over her like silk pajamas until she comes?

SPEAKER_03 3:49

I think it's that one, but regardless, he licks his finger and also touches her nipple a whole bunch, but it has to be clockwise. Counterclockwise is bad.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Not sexy.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

I think Korea has some harsher potentially uh rules about sexuality than Hollywood does, but I can't verify that. I started to I started the sentence and then the two words old boy started entering my head and was like, well, they can't be that gentle.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Yeah. This movie be wild in. Like, I I'd never seen it before. And I I obviously heard about the table scene and was like, oh, that's weird. I wonder how we're going to get to that. And then when we got to it, I was like, oh, this is so Oh man. Oh, this is weird.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

It's not the groping over the pajamas that is really cringy in that scene, though. It's the talking about them like they're animals and not knowing that they can hear you.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

Yes. And it's that's the whole scene that's the catalyst for the ending with the other murder. There's multiple murders in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

There's a lot of murders at the very end, all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

Yeah, all of a sudden we're murdering all over the place. But for the the murder that the dad commits, that scene, this weird s couch sex scene, is the catalyst for that. Because that's when he's like, oh no, do I have a smell? And then he just can't let it go. Which is valid. That's a valid thing not to be able to let go.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Don't like being described as carrying the stench of poverty. And then the wife was like over the top gagging about it in the car the next day. Yeah. And this follows what I think is one of the absolute key scenes for this movie's commentary on class divides is how these two families are affected by the same rainstorm. The rich family has to call off the son's birthday camping trip and come back home early. And the poor family gets their apartment flooded and loses nearly everything.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yes. And what's so I I was like, oh, they're because looking at their toilet, I was like, oh, that's an interesting place for a toilet. Like, why is it so high up? And then in looking into it, I was like, oh, it's because flooding in these sub-basement apartments in these sort of areas in Korea is very common. So your toilet is elevated to hopefully stop it from overflowing. This flood, that was not the case. That was not the case at all.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Their toilet was wasn't overflowing, the world was overflowing. Yeah. Just sewage down the streets.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Just all over the place. Super gross.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

I also had never seen this movie before, and I was under the impression that it was a horror movie. Which there are certainly some horrific elements. In places. But it's certainly and like it's commentary on the horrors of modern society. Incisive. Not a horror movie, though.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

I would I would say comedy thriller.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

I think that's and perhaps not being a horror movie is why they've never used the tagline I came up with that I thought sums it up perfectly. There's more than one way to eat the rich. Is all these underclass people just sort of latching themselves onto the ri wealthy family like tapeworms.

unknown 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

But the wealthy family are also parasites.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Yes. I thought that was actually like really well done in this movie. Because you're sort of left of like, who is the true parasite? Like, what is actually parasitic within this movie? Is it the infiltration? Is it the way that they're treated? Like, what is what is parasitic in this?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I mean, yeah, all rich people are parasite because they live off other people's labor.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Yep, exactly. I liked it. I liked it a lot.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

It went by really quickly, so I didn't catch it. What does Mr. Park, the dad, do?

SPEAKER_03 7:43

He was a developer of some sort. That's what I took away. Like software development?

SPEAKER_02 7:48

There was like I guess I would have never figured it out. There was that one scene where it flashed to a news article about him, and I now realize that the news article would have been in Korean, so I wouldn't have been able to read it.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Would not have helped, and I don't think they subtitled it.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

They did not. Yeah. Uh so Korean audiences, please tell us what is his job? I'm sure it's lychee.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Previous owner of the house was an architect, but I don't know offhand what Mr. Park does. No. I like that it did not take us long to get a case study and why maybe you shouldn't have your pizza boxes uh assembled off-site. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. They get sprayed down with bug killer.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Oh. But you know what? That's not the problem. That's not why she doesn't like them. She doesn't like them because these people are bad at folding boxes, even though they watch a YouTube video about it.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

They rushed, they did a sloppy job, they're not all folded correctly.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Yep. And I will say, the girl in the YouTube video, she was a master pizza box folder. She sure was. She likes it. Nobody could compare to her. I do though really like how this family, they're all really good at what they can do. Like the way that they infiltrate and the skills that they have are not core skills. Like they know what they're doing. But they're kind of bad people. Oh, they're awful people.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

I think a lesser movie would make them good people in bad circumstances, making choices they never thought they would. And certainly the Mr. Cam the Dad, when he does kill Mr. Park, is doing something that he never thought he would do. But that's not because he was a good person. That was because he was kind of a weak person. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

And like when your daughter is bleeding to death and you're being told you have to leave that person because my family's more important and you work for me, and that person also works for me, and therefore she's lesser, that's re that's that's not a great scenario. You might stab a man. Yep. You might stab a man.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Might stab a guy a little.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Yeah, when he rolls over the guy who'd been living in the basement, who I bet he also does not smell good. And based on Mr. Park's reaction to touching him, he does not smell good. So when you're like trying to save your daughter's life, have been told, no, don't, because neither of you actually matter, my son matters. And then having the smell brought back, yeah, I understand 100% why he stabbed him.

unknown 10:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

All of this makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Well, and Mr. Park is also not a good man. No. Like No. He's he's not like cartoonishly evil by any means. He's just like, he's just a gross rich guy.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

He's a guy who's thrived under extreme capitalism and that doesn't tend to breed a good person. Sure, he theoretically pays him a good wage, although I don't know that we see much evidence of that since they're mostly trying to be in the parkhouse all the time.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Well, they're spending all of their money at that uh that driver's cafe.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Mm-hmm. They're eating real food. Which is also like so sad. But it then pays off. The like saving their and rationing their food pays off at the very end. And audience, we're gonna spoil it for you. So get ready. You don't want to spoil her. Get out of here. But when he's eating at the very end, when he's now living in the basement and he's eating the like tiny bits of tuna from the can, you're like, yep. He knows how to do it. He knows how from all of his sad, sad years of not having enough food.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

His life has put him in a place where he's capable of living in a secret basement tunnel indefinitely.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah. Do you guys think that Mr. Kim is going to become insane? Because the man who lived in the basement, oh gosh, I don't think we ever learned his name. I don't think so. She just calls him Honey. Honey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Think I think we might know the former cook's name at some point and could infer a last name from that, but I don't recall it.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Well, and I don't e like, even the Kim's don't really know her name because when she shows up, the mom's like, wait, what's her name again? Who who is she? That's just an old housekeeper. Because he was down there for four years and three months and two days or whatever. And he is insane. His brain has gone bye-bye. Mm-hmm. He uh worships Mr. Park like a god because Mr. Park houses him and feeds him, even though he doesn't know he does any of that. And I'm just curious, has Mr. Kim also become insane?

SPEAKER_00 12:24

I think he will. If he hasn't yet, I think uh prolonged isolation in a confined space, living off scraps and crawling out at night to try to find replacements. That would drive anyone crazy before long.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

And it's even worse for him because at least we we will call this man Honey. That is the name he has in the movie. Yep. At least Honey, his wife would visit him and bring him actual food. Like I think she said like once a week. Yeah. And he still became insane.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

And he still went nuts down there. Now Mr. Kim is just alone with himself and his nightly flashing of a message in Morse code, hoping against hope that his son is nearby to see it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Which he is.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Eventually took months.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

No. It's also the ending is so bleak because he gets the note, and then we do this like dream sequence flash forward to like, I'm gonna be rich and I'm gonna buy the house, and you're gonna know it's time to come out. And then we flash back to present time with him just reading the letter. You're like, oh that's never going to happen.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

No. We can tell that this is not a flash forward, it is a fantasy on a couple of fronts, but the main one is I'm going to earn a lot of money is not a plan. It's it's what you it's the goal of a plan. Yes. It's the thing you make a plan to accomplish.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Yep. But Dan, his dad said never make a plan. So he's done exactly what he's supposed to do.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Yeah, there's no plan.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

I have no doubt though that that man might be I mean, he now has had brain surgery, so maybe not. But I have no doubt that he would be able to make a lot of money. He is like a wheeler and dealer.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

He is, although his now late sister was better at both of those things.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

It's true. Yeah. I love how she just googled a bunch of like art psychotherapy and then was like, your kid is clearly troubled and might turn into a psychopath later in life and maybe murder you because he drew a black box in the corner of two drawings.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

So you definitely need me.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

I'm going to need multiple sessions a week and it's going to be expensive, but I'll turn this kid around.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

And you can never be here when I do this.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Well, the best part was like he her brother didn't even set that up. Like she he set her up as an art teacher, and she was like, Oh, look what I can do, baby.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

I got a better plan. All kinds of trauma, so meanwhile, I will just soft dumb him into being a normal kid more often.

unknown 15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

That kid just needs ADHD medication, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Oh, yeah. No, that kid, that kid is also like, what is he? He's eight? Yeah. He's just an eight-year-old boy. Like, in all honesty, that kid is just an eight-year-old rich boy. Who, like, he's never been told no in his life. So he just does what he feels. He's shooting everybody with those arrows. His parents bought him everything to do with indigenous Native Americans. Like, that's that's just what he does. That's what this kid's whole personality is. Knowing nothing about any of the indigenous cultures of North America.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

His only problem is having been traumatized by a ghost that was actually the weird man living in his crawl space.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

I mean, that man though, it's a scary shot. I would be terrified. I'd be terrified even if I weren't a child.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, that would be a terrifying thing to see. And it just so happens that I would personally find ghosts less troubling than the actual story.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Correct. Correct. Ghost I could deal with. Frogger, no. No, I want you out.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Man, I thought this movie was about the entire family hiding in the house, though. I'm a little disappointed it wasn't. Instead, they just have one very sad party where they drink all of Mr. Park's liquor and eat a bunch of food and don't know what ramen is.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

It's so funny. I also love that whole sequence of them trying to get out of the house and being trapped in various areas. It is so tense. Because also at this point in time, like, we don't really know who we're rooting for in this story. Like, we've got people in the basement. We've got this family who's infiltrating, and we've got the other family. And you're like, everything's intertwined. I'm not sure who who I'm supposed to like root for. Do I root for anybody?

SPEAKER_02 17:19

I think the person I root for is the daughter of the Park family. Because she liked, he called himself Kevin when he was treating her. She liked Kevin so much that even though his head had been beaten in, she was trying to carry him out of the party on her shoulders. That's true. She really did like Kevin.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

That's where Kevin loses me, is oh, they're not bad people, they're just doing a bad thing's revive. Like, she is still 16, Kevin. Slow your role on as soon as she graduates high school, I'm gonna date her officially.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

But that's what his friend was doing too. Exactly. Normal?

SPEAKER_03 17:56

I'm not sure. But it's also okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

I refuse to have South Korea age of consent laws in my browser history. I might need to go through immigration again someday.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Valid, valid. T. They say college, but when do you go to college?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

And is it one of those situations like in the UK? Sometimes they call what they call college, we call late high school.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Yeah, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

It's like he he could be like 18.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Yeah. I mean, he's also the one that his long-lost friend is like, no, you're the only one that I can trust with this person.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, that's an insult.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

It's real bad. It's awful.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

I I didn't feel bad for the friend at all. No. Son, aka Kevin, is snaking his gig and his planned, I'm gonna finish grooming this teenager and then date her and marry into the family plan.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Yeah. I mean, that's in all honesty, that's not a bad plan. Like it's gross and weird, but also in the circumstances, it's not a bad plan. Kevin's Kevin's thinking about how he could do this. He didn't really think about what his family would do and how that would roll out, because now they're all there.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

I think there was some talk of hiring an actor family for the wedding.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Yeah. And then being like, goodbye, actor family, we'll call you again on holidays.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

I did like that the Park daughter was getting worried about him bringing his friend Jessica over to be the art instructor. Like, is she your girlfriend? Oh no, he says. I'm like, yeah. Not being Jessica's boyfriend is gonna be a real easy cover story for him to maintain.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Yeah. Anyway, Key Jun is my favorite. She's the one I was rooting for because she might be my favorite con artist not in a movie starting with the word ocean. She's real good. So good.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

So good.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

When she's like doing the Photoshop and smoking in the internet cafe.

unknown 19:54

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

That's so good scene. She's just so cool. Right. She's so good at everything.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Yeah. I love that she wrote a little song as a mnemonic for the cover story.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Yes. She's a genius.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

My name is Jessica. I'm from from Chicago.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Yeah. Like if she was a boy, she would have been in university, but you know, this is a a family in poverty, and they hang their hopes on the son who failed the entrance exam to college four times. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Yep. And don't worry. He's just starting a little late. He just got the documents printed before he went there. Don't worry, Dad.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

He's still gonna go. He's still gonna go. He's gonna go. He's gonna he's gonna graduate top of his class and earn a lot of money and buy that house. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

I also don't think he knows what the word metaphorical means.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

I love your TV twice as big words.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Like, I I've gonna give the movie credit and not assume that they just translated that badly, and he is just bad with big words.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Oh, I think he is certainly bad with big words.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

That's what I took from it.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Well, he also doesn't know how to tutor English. He just knows how to nag her. Yeah. And she likes it.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Because she's 16 and he's a pretty boy. That's where she's at. She's like, well, the last tutor went away and he was pretty hot, so now we got this one.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Cool. Well, he and his sister's educational style does not appear to be teach important skills so much as enact a system where they're desperate for my approval and force them to earn it. Which is not not working.

unknown 21:37

Right?

SPEAKER_02 21:38

It's not not working. But like he also he is the tutor, and his friend was the tutor because the mom thinks they're hot, right?

SPEAKER_04 21:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

That was a full implication that the friend said when he said that she was simple. I was like, oh, she's hot and she thinks you're hot. That's what I took from that. And then I'm also not sure like what she had going on, because she just really loves sleeping. She had Rich Lady Sleeping Syndrome. I feel bad for her. I feel like she was like deeply lonely.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Oh yeah. So deeply lonely.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah, Mrs. Park has her own issues.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Including wanting to go to second and a half base while facing the teepee that their son is camping in.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Oh yeah. Look, when you're a parent, sometimes it's hard to know when you can have sex. You can't have it when you can.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah, grab the minutes you can when everybody's distracted.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Yep. Like kids sleeping in a rainstorm teepee. It's fine.

unknown 22:46

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

I do okay. I will say once again, let's go back to this escape scene. I love the shot of the two kids have made it down the stairs to the garage, and Mr. Kim is crawling out from under the table, and then the kid wakes up the dad with the intercom and the lights, and it's like, emergency, emergency. And it's just such a beautiful shot of like these parents who whose faces could see, like if they turned their head slightly, they could see him. But it's just dark enough. There's a big beam of light coming in from their son's flashlight, and they're they have post sex sleep parent disorientation, and it's just such a intense, beautiful shot.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

They do such good shots with that big glass wall. It's a wall window, a window wall, and it's awesome. They make so many beautiful shots through that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Uh film theory I come across a while back and kept meaning to wrap into analyses more often, but it's a hard one to track unless you're really, really trying. This idea that usually there is some big twist or big plot development that will kick in right at the one hour mark, because uh an idea of the film industry is that 60 pages in, your audience is now invested in the world, and the real stakes can kick in. And it just so happens that at one hour and three minutes, the old housekeeper shows up saying, Hey, can I come in for a minute? I left something in the basement. Oh that's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

She did so good. She left her whole husband in the basement. Her whole ass husband, who's also a criminal. Let's not like blowbite. He's a criminal. He's a criminal and he owes a lot of money to loan sharks.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

He is hiding from the mob.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah. No, but it's not his fault. He's not a criminal. His bakery just went under. What was he to do?

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Oh, it's never anybody's fault.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

Borrow that money and never pay it back. I also like how that was their solution. You know, like, don't worry, just hide in this rich person's house indefinitely. That was the solution to his problem.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Okay, so what happened to her face? What happened to her face is definitely that the mob beat her up, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Oh yeah. I think so, because she's out because she's out of work now, so she's not paying them back anymore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

And someone came looking for her husband, wondering where the money was.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Yeah. Because as long as some money's trickling in, the mob's happy. You know, like they they'd rather all of it.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

What is with Bong Chew to Ho and failed bakeries being the reason you have to go to extreme lengths to avoid your creditors? That's also how Mickey 17 enters. Or opens.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Okay, so this man lost a bakery at some point in his life. He's just reenacting childhood trauma, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:49

I believe it. He's like, oh, this one, this one's got a bakery loss. I'm in. I'm in.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Is that also why they're all on the snow piercer? Just gonna ride the rails until they arrive at a land with more successful bakeries?

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Obviously. Bakery business is hard. That's what's happening. Bakery business hard, y'all. Bakery business is hard.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

I mean, I guess, yeah, but got a lot of gotta sell a lot real fast. It's business, it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Anyway, this movie I really liked. It was like weird and gross and creepy and such a good commentary, and I was here for it.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

It was not what I expected, but it was equally good as what I expected.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

I think it's okay that it's not clear who you're supposed to root for, because I think the Hollywood remake of this that I would hate would absolutely go with they're all good people who are just forced into this life of shenanigans to get by. Whereas uh Korean or European cinema is gonna be much more okay embracing their kind of SCSI people who have found a kind of scuzzy way to drain the wealth of even of different scuzzy people.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

But well you see who's in the basement? Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Okay, so now we have to do it. We have to do the Munsey thing and do the bad North American remake casting. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Tom Holland is the the son, the main the main person. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Ki-woo. Now actually Kevin.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Yep. He's just Kevin.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

He's just Kevin. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

So who is just Jessica?

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Aubrey Plaza.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yeah, because she's smart.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

She's smart? She's also like 43 now or something.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

She is, but we always think of her as 20. So who's the younger Aubrey Plaza?

SPEAKER_00 27:44

I mean, literally Jenna Ortega, but I was gonna pitch Indy Navaret from Superman and Lois, and also this little movie called Obsession. Oh yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Now, parents. Dad is one of the Chris's. Specifically, I think Chris Pine.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

It could be Chris Pine. I was also kind of thinking I'm not stalling because I have to look up his name. That's crazy talk.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

We never do that.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

It's not going very badly at all.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

It's absolutely fine. Everything's fine. Yeah. We'll ponder the mom while this happens because we all have to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Joel Kinneman, he said instantly and without having to go on Wikipedia and really, really skimming through the text. Perhaps I know as best as Rick Flagg from the bad and the good Suicide Squad movies. Probably better known from For All Mankind, but I don't have Apple Plus. That's not how I know it.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Oh yeah, this guy.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah, look at that jaw.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

That is the jaw of a man who plays the dad.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yep. And he could get, I feel he'll get that sense of desperation. Not that I have or could imagine any negative things to say about Chris Pine.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

You know who Chris Pine can be? He can be Mr. Park. Ooh, that's true. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Yeah. Okay, so the parks are Chris Pine and the mother from How I Met Your Mother, who was also on The Penguin, and her name is Kristen Miliotti. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

I didn't even have to look that up. I just have to start the process to kick my brain into go and hear it again.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Mm-hmm. Which then means, because if we still want to go for like a comedy thriller and we're kind of in that ballpark, are we looking at Allison Hannigan as Mrs. Kim?

SPEAKER_00 29:36

I'm going to say Tony Collette.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Oh, Tony Collette would be so good. But Tony Collette's gotta be in her late 50s now. I will say, okay, here, what if Tony Collette is actually the old housekeeper? Because I think Tony Colette could do a really good job at that.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

And then also I would believe that she would keep her husband secret in the basement.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

And Tony Collette, I'm so sorry, you're only 53. You're young.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

No, you're also amazing and gorgeous. We love you, Tony Collette.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

My only concern is if Tony Collette is the old housekeeper to set give the third act away too much, but No, because she's she's done stuff like that before.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

And Tony Collette has final girl. Final girl energy. Mm-hmm. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

So we're never gonna believe she dies. Yeah, that she gets kicked down a staircase and actually dies. Although I thought that she was dead, not Tony Collette in the real movie. I thought that she was dead as soon as she hit that back wall. I was like, oh she dead. She's so dead. Horrifying.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah. I think it took a while, and that helped push Honey into a more berserker rage.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Oh, yes. Well, and that's oh, her dying, where she's like, remember this name. I can't see it's so sad. But she's like, I can't see you.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Maybe Kiwi wouldn't have gotten hit in the brain with that rock quite as many times, if not for that.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

Yeah. Yeah. But that's his metaphorical rock. That he really understands what that word means.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

So, okay, so I think the only person we've not cast is Berserker Honey.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Steve Buscemi.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

He does have basement energy.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

He does. I could totally see Steve Buscemi living in a basement and then crawling up. Like, especially the scene where it's just his eyes above that stair. Like, you can picture Steve Buscemi's eyes.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Whoever it is, keep him out of the marketing and go for an interstellar surprise Matt Damon kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Yes. I do have an alternative pitch, although it is too obvious and you might not be able to keep the secret. But it's Justin Long.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

Oh. He would also be good at that. He does also have I've been trapped in a basement for four years energy.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Plus, he is a legitimate scream queen. He sure is.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Oh no. Now I can't stop thinking about Tusk.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

But not a final girl.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Oh no. He's not a final girl. No Tusk. Why? Nope. And then some cool kid actors will play the kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

But also accept Bill Skarsgard as honey.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

I did also think Skarsgard. I was like, we're missing a Skarsgard in here. And Bill is the correct one. No, no.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Bill is the correct Skarsgrd. No, you want crazy eyes off of Skarsgard. You go for the one who played the homicidal sewer clown.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Even in his handsome movie, Barbarian was still unsettling.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Barbarian is unsettling.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Now, we have made a good cast for this North American remake, but it will not have the grit and grime needed for this movie.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Unless David Fincher directs it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because he managed to keep a certain amount of grit and grime in the girl with the dragon tattoo. I think.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Like, luckily, because it won Best Picture, now it's not going to be remade. Now we can just accept that movies can come from different countries.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

I feel like it was threatened, but it didn't get far.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

It I think, okay, I think there is a TV show, but I don't know if it's actually based on it.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Well, and I I know the director wanted to do a spin-off movie that was based on the relationship between the old housekeeper and the uh architect.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

I don't think that happened.

unknown 33:29

No.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Instead, he made Mickey 17.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Well, there we go. Same movie. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Basically the same movie. Oh no, it's in. I think it was Tony Collette in Mickey 17.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

Could be.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Playing Mrs. Bark Ruffalo.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Because she's great. We love Tony. She is great. I have chosen to uh access the information in the worst way, which is not by looking up Mickey 17, it's by looking up Tony Collette.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

It's gonna take so much longer. I looked up I just looked up the movie. She was close enough to top the call sheet that it did not take long to verify.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

What has Tony Collette been in? Let me see. Oh, lots.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

So much. But her best project, oh no, what is it called? The one where she pretends to be a drag queen. Oh, um, oh my gosh. It's not called Tony and Tina's wedding, but it is called something very similar to that. Tony and Carla. There it is. Gosh, that's a masterpiece of a movie. I own it on DVD.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

Because Tony Colette, Tony Collette is fabulous. Really, now we're just a Tony Collette fan club podcast. That's all this is.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Well, that's just any podcast that isn't the manosphere, and I would rather throw away every microphone I own than end up in that particular part of the internet. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now I do remember in the campaign an article coming out Parasite doesn't need the Oscars, but the Oscars need Parasite. And maybe some voters read it, and it did help propel this movie to be nominated for six Oscars and win four. Okay. Picture, director, original screenplay, and foreign film. And Bong Jun Ho did the only thing that makes sense when you surprise win two Oscars, he made them kiss in front of the press corps.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Yeah, that's amazing. Just like your Barbies. Just smooshin' together.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

It lost editing and production design, but hey, how weird. Zero nominations for acting. First time that's happened with the best picture winner since huh, Slum Dog Millionaire.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Oh. Is there something in play with this? Can't think of what it is.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

What could possibly be the reason? Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

And now I'm just like Jenny Nicholson when she loses her racism post-it in the Vampire Times video.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

That's weird. Weird? What could it be? There's something under the Bonnie problem. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

I mean, that dad. That dad should be a nomination.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah, there are a few people who definitely deserved one. And that's without even trying to remember who all the nominees were, I can just see at least one coming up. It wasn't the Darling the entire campaign trail and that it lost the critic's choice, the Golden Globe, and the BAFTA. But it was the third film ever, and the first in 64 years, twin both the Oscar and the Palm Dor at C at Cannes Film Festival. Oh!

SPEAKER_03 36:41

Okay, you know what? I didn't I knew it had won at con at the Cannes Festival, but I didn't know that it Ooh, fascinating!

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Good job, second film to pull off both, if like me you don't consider Lost Weekend counts because there wasn't a Palm Dor. There were just participation trophies for every country, but that's just me at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Also, Lost Weekend.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

I love to take things away from Lost Weekend if I have any opportunity to do so.

SPEAKER_03 37:07

I mean, it was the Lost Weekend for reasons. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Rotten Tomatoes at time of recording and for most of the last five years believes Parasite to be the greatest best picture ever made. In first place, right on top of Casablanca. I think Casablanca slipped back up on top for a while. Maybe when we recorded that episode, I don't remember. I don't know. I think you're right. Parasite came back.

unknown 37:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

I mean, Parasite holds up. It is has even more complex people than Casablanca. Yeah. Incisive commentary that's relevant to us today. Uh-huh. Also, I looked up who won the BAFTA and it's uh 1917. So Parasite had no chance.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

No.

unknown 37:50

No.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Sorry. Sorry, no, when you have the a war World War One movie, you can't no, no, not at the BAFTAs.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

BAFTAs were gonna BAFTA so hard on that one.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Yeah, yeah. Look at this movie.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

I personally rank this one number 19. I have a lot of respect for it. I just don't necessarily think it's the greatest movie ever made. And I don't know, maybe I'm gonna have to turn in my film Reddit bro card at some point later in this list. Uh I rank it two Underspots under Return of the King, two over No Country for Old Men, and in between two movies we somehow haven't gotten to. Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Okay, I'm intrigued.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

I may or may not have to rethink number 18. We'll see what happens when that happens.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Alrighty. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Me too. I don't think it's number one either.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

No. No, I don't either. But I'm I'm intrigued by this. Because it also, I just as I was doing the Google Enough stuff, it still is it's got 99% on Rotten Tomatoes currently. It does. So That's a lot of percents. It's all the almost all the percents.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

They used to display some sort of adjusted score calculation underneath so that a 99% but adjusted to a hundred and seven point eight percent. And that's how they dealt with the fact that it's ninety-nine percents all the way from all through the top four.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

Okay. Okay, okay. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

For Moonlight is the first to clock in at a dismal 98%. Oh, Moonlight.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Also a good movie. Also good movie.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

It's a good movie, but not in my top five, but we already discussed that.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Yeah, we already talked about Moonlight.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Our other nominees in my highly scientific and therefore correct rank ordering. Number nine, The Irishman. Martin Scorsese's return to mob movies with some old pals. The story of a hitman who befriends then has to deal with Jimmy Hoffa. The DH ing tech cannot make Robert De Niro move like he's under 70, and it is entirely too long.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

It's so long. As soon as you said it, I was like, oh my god, I remember watching it. It's so long.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

I feel like I have the Irishman confused with like nine other movies that are basically the same movie.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Did lead to Taylor Tomlinson in an old podcast she briefly had, giving the best review I'd heard of Goodfellas. So I'm watching this movie and I'm realizing that the Irishman is trash? At number eight, the lesser score says he flick, Joker, in which a mentally ill wannabe comedian decides society is unfair and he has to be the Joker about it. It wasn't an unpleasant watch, but it's paper thin and it thinks it's way more clever than it actually is, but nobody dislikes this movie's fans more than the actual director.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Do you want to know what was worse than Joker? Folly a duh.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Yes, the second Joker. Produced, filmed, and released as a punishment for everyone who liked the first movie.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

So bad. I watched it on a plane and I almost turned it off. You can't turn off a plane movie?

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I still haven't bothered, and you can turn off a plane movie. They have other movies.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

No, no, once you start a plane movie, you gotta commit all the way through. That's how planes work.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Why are you guys ever watching any movie on the plane on a plane that is not Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit? What is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Because it's it's only six hours to Mexico, not nine. And I don't want to have to disembark before the Rohiram finally prevail against the giant elephants. Just want to watch Denzel Washington equalize some people. At number seven, Ford vs. Ferrari. Matt Damon and Christian Bale star in the story at the time Ford Motors decided to try to beat Ferrari at Le Mans, and how the real villain of the story was Leo from Corporate.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

I forgot that movie existed. Me too.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

I mean, you would. It's not even the best car-based best picture nominee of the last ten years.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Nope, it sure isn't. Nope, that's F1. That sure is F1.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Number six, Marriage Story from Noah Bombbach, in which a celebrated theater director and famed actress find their amicable split turning ugly over the question of which coast their son will be raised on. At number five, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Tarantino's third historical revenge flick, which a fading cowboy actor and his controversial stunt man run afoul of the Manson cult. This took the critic's choice and the Golden Globe for best comedy.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

I like that movie. Yeah, I liked it. I liked the spin that they took. I like that it ended the way it did. I like that the Manson family got so murdered in the house down the street.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

That was a pretty incredible sequence, and Brad Pitt was hilarious throughout it.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 42:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

And I love that being set on fire became Mikey Madison's brand for a few years. Yeah. Why not? Lily One Reviewer I love to letterboxed, I think, Inora saying, Took me a minute to figure out who she was because no one was setting her on fire.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

She did get set on fire real good.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

That and uh Scream 5.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

And I'm probably gonna watch the spin-off movie when Netflix puts it in theaters for a hot minute in November.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

The Inoras? What who has a spin-off?

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Uh Once Upon a Time in Hollywood has a spin-off coming up. The further adventures of Cliff Booth.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Oh my gosh, yes. I'm here for that.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Okay, yeah. Written by Tarantino, but directed by David Fincher because Tarantino is obsessed with this idea of directing ten films precisely and then retiring.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Okay. You know what I love David Fincher, so yeah, I'm I'm here for this.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

I mean, that's an excellent plan B. Yeah. Like if if he just wants to write films for David Fincher or Sam Mendes or other people to direct, I'm down with that. I love true romance. Tony Scott directed that one, so it doesn't count towards the ten.

SPEAKER_03 43:59

Yeah. I'm here for this. This sounds like a great plan. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Mm-hmm. Yeah, number four, nineteen seventeen, as mentioned earlier. Sam Mendes's single-shot war epic as two soldiers try to make their way across no man's land in an attempt to call off a doomed push on German trenches. Obviously took the BAFTA and the Glove for Best Drama. And every best director trophy until Bong Chun Ho rolled up to the Oscars.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

I mean, I did like 1917. That is a theater movie, though. You watch that at home and you're like, uh. You watch that in the theater and you're immersed in the one shot, you love it.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Oh yeah, it was a chilling experience on the big screen. I have not attempted to rewatch it at home because I don't need to. Perfect. Correct choices. Do just love the bit that no no. Every time they started filming this thing, Benedict Cumberbatch is just sitting in that bunker. They'd make it 20 minutes and shout, Cut, and he'd go back to once. Perfect. Number three is where I would put Parasite, and that's probably costing me some Cinephile points for not even calling this the best movie 2019. However, I must stand in my truth and say that at number two is Little Women. Yeah it is. Greta Gerwig's masterful new take on the classic novel with a cast so strong you sometimes forget Meryl Streep is in it.

SPEAKER_03 45:17

I've never seen nor read any Little Women, so I have no opinion on it.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

There are so many bad adaptations.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

I believe it.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

I've heard, I've heard. I opened with this one and loved it so much. It is in that rarefied company of movies I'm afraid to watch a second time, lest it be somewhat less magical than when I saw it in the theaters and become just a movie again. Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

No, it holds up, don't worry.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

It's like that in the first Spider-Ver. And this would be my unquestioned favorite movie of 2019, Oscar nominee or otherwise, if it were not for number one, Jojo Rabbit. I love Taike White's story of a young boy in mid-40s Germany who finds his hero worship of Hitler at odds with his growing relationship with the Jewish girl his mother hid in their walls. This movie makes you feel every emotion.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

I didn't realize it was so new. In my brain, it came out in like 2016. Right? 15? Because it's made like such an indelible mark. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

That one I've watched so many times. Doesn't matter how much the butterfly scene hurts me every time. As soon as they start dancing under the end credits to a German cover of Hero, I'm in it.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

Oh. It's glorious. His little friend, his little friend who oh my god, I love him.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Bad day to be a Nazi. I'm going home. I need a cuddle.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

He just walks away, sad Charlie Browning.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Sam Rockwell made me the saddest I've ever been to see a Nazi get shot. Which that was not a hard bar to clear.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

No, I mean you're not sad.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

So Captain K.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

I know.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

He and Freddie just wanted to love each other, but the world wouldn't let them.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Wouldn't let them.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Would not let them.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

Ah, no, JoJo Rabbit is a glorious movie.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Now, when I first decided to make Oscar movies my personality, almost irrevocably, back in the pandemic and did this as a blog project, this was the final year. Because I started in 2020, and by the time I had finished the blog series, the Oscars were still a couple of weeks out. So I didn't yet know who was going to be the next best picture winner, even though we knew who was going to be the next best picture winner. But there was also something so incredibly satisfying about rapping the whole endeavor on a movie literally called Endgame. So take it away, Claire.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Okay, so when we last left our heroes, the Avengers, for those of you who didn't know, it was bad. It was bad. Thanos snapped. Half of all living beings were gone. Iron Man and Captain America were still at odds. But don't worry. Don't worry. The beginning of the movie happens, but then five years later happens. And we're all still sad. But guess who's back? Ant-Man! Little suddenly. I really decided to do a slim shady thing and then went, nah, nah, we're not doing that right now. We're not doing that.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

It's called response.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

It is Ant-Man! Ant-Man's back! And now it's a time travel movie! So we're time traveling. We got hijinks. We've got three hours and five minutes and an epic battle because Thanos is also back. Even though he was killed by Thor earlier. And we must get to our one. Our one time that Doctor Strange predicted where the Avengers will win and save the world. Will they? They will. They will because it's a superhero movie and it's called Endgame.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

And there's too much money these things to wrap them up completely. Yeah. On a downer note.

SPEAKER_03 49:32

Yeah, so no, they will. They will and they do. And it's Captain America's story because he ends the movie.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Yeah, he does do that.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

He sure does.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

You know what? I don't care about this movie. I only care about Thor. Sad Thor is my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Oh, sad Thor.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Because I need to finally do something good. I actually teared up. I only care about Thor. Thor is my favorite. Oh no, that's not true.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

Fat Thor is an excellent depiction of depression, much in the way that Infinity War Thor was a great depiction of smiling through the trauma and he's putting a brave face on being at the absolute end of his fucking rope.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Yep. Yeah. Thor is the best character. He's better than Captain America. Oh, he's so better than Birdman. He is.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

This time they do kind of undercut it with the string of fat jokes from the rest of the team.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Yeah. Yeah, but you know what? They also made that fat jokes about uh Chris.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Pratt.

unknown 50:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

I was like religious Chris. The other one. The third Chris in this movie. And he was just like slightly less chiseled than when he normally plays Star Lord. Yeah. Because he's barely in these movies.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

He is. Because he got dusted away.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

We know everything's gonna work out this time for two reasons. Number one, this isn't the goddamn umbrella academy, and we don't end on a massive downer. And number two, Hawkeye's back.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Yeah. He starts this movie. He literally starts this movie. He's there with his family.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Okay, so I think on this podcast I have talked about my ongoing need to know if Jeremy Renner always has huge hands. Right? Yes. So in this movie, he does have huge hands, but I did not look up whether or not this movie was filmed before or after his accident where he almost died. Because I have a theory that him almost dying made his hands enormous.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Oh, this is definitely before. The accident happened at some point after his Disney Plus show.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Okay. So his hands are in fact enormous. So they've just always been large. Mm-hmm. He is puffy and angry in this movie, and I like it. He sure has a Mohawk. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 51:47

Oh my god. I love that after his family gets dusted away by Thanos, he just goes on a murderous vengeance rampage.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

No, I get it. Like he lost everybody in one moment, and I can absolutely see, given his background and his training and his skill set, going on a why do they die, you get to live rampage against the criminal element.

SPEAKER_03 52:15

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. He he goes on a super rampage. I also love how they bring his rampage back to Scarlett Johansson and they're like, yo, dude, he rampaging. He's in like Japan right now. I don't know, taking on the Yakuza. And she's like, don't worry. I'll go talk to him. And then just shows up with an umbrella and is like, you don't have to do this. And he's like, I kind of do. And she's like, don't worry, bro, I got you. And then they just disappear.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

And she's like, what if no? And he's like, you're correct. What if no? Because they have a connection that no one else has that is never explained in these movies. They just have it. They just have it.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

I don't know if they need to explain it. I feel like they demonstrate enough right from the moment where she says, You can't pull me out of this assignment until Colson says Barton's been turned and suddenly she just wipes out the entire Russian mob boss.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

It's like, nope, gotta go.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

Isn't it wild? Because neither of them had movies before, and you didn't need movies before. Like they do enough in the Avengers movies and the ancillary products that you're like, no, I get it. They love each other in like a thoroughly platonic, war-caused, trauma-bonded way. The same way she loves Captain America. Yeah. But not the same way she loves Bruce Banner.

SPEAKER_03 53:38

The two of them want to bone down so bad. Well, they do. She's the only one who could stop him from Hulking out before he became Smart Hulk, as the subtitles say.

unknown 53:48

Smart Hulk.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Smart Hulk, Professor Hulk, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Smart Hulk is my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Subtitles are so dumb and they make me so happy.

SPEAKER_03 53:56

So good. Smart Hulk, and you're like, it's because he's wearing glasses and apartly is Bruce Banner. Is that why he's Smart Hulk? They make friends. They make best friends. And Banner are friends. Yeah. I love okay. Speaking of Smart Hulk, I love the scene in the diner that is just 90% giant platters of food that only Smart Hulk is eating, and the others are just sort of sitting there with cups of coffee. And then the kids come up to take you their picture.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

So I'm posting a list of spoilers from Endgame you would not believe were true if you hadn't seen it. And the two that come to mind are Hawkeye and Black Widow literally fight to the death and Hulk dabs.

SPEAKER_03 54:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

As he says, dab. Like, oh no, it's so bad. It's so it's so cringy.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Because he's a big old science nerd.

SPEAKER_03 54:50

He sure is. It's also that scene, because Paul Rudd is so endearing, but also like the most dad in that moment where he's like, Yeah, take my picture. I'm Ant-Man. And they're like, We don't know who you are. And he's like, that's okay. That's okay. You don't need to take a picture. And then they're just fighting over whether or not the kids want to take his picture.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Paul's like, he feels bad. He had a picture. Like, no, it's okay. Please take the goddamn camera.

SPEAKER_03 55:16

Like, just for the love of God, go away.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

I don't like this anymore. To be fair, Paul Rudd, you were in the quantum zone. For five years.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Ant-Man isn't that public yet. They haven't made the Rogers musical yet, nor has he writ has he written his book about having been part of this whole Antithanos thing.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

I mean, really, he is the whole reason it happens. Oh yeah. He is a key piece. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

I always say the movie really kicks into full gear the second Paul Rudd shows up. And it's partly because Ant-Man gets the plot in motion.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

Because there is no plot prior to that.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

No, there's an attempt to have a plot. I love that their fake out is that they do the title drop when everybody is rounding up to go after Thanos. Because they're like, yes, it will in fact be that simple. Sure thing. Here's the title card, as opposed to after they realize they can't undo the snap, and Thor just kills Thanos out of spite, and we do our five years later title card, which I will come back to in just a second, but but say that it's also a lot Paul Rudd's energy that gets the film going.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he he has the Tom Holland energy, right? Like anytime Tom Holland as Spider-Man shows up in these movies, you're just like fresh air.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

Yeah. And that's Paul Rudd. Yes. Because we can't have Tom Holland yet because he got dusted away. Oh my god, it's so cute.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Their biggest tug of the heartstrings is Peter's dusting. Scott finding his daughter really gets me each time. I think the actress who got recast for not having been in 13 Reasons Why really sells that pause when she sees him through the screen door.

SPEAKER_03 57:04

It's so sweet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

But as to the five-year time jump, if I could ask Kevin Feige one question other than where the hell is my second season of Moon Knight? It would be if you knew then that Fanbross would still be bitching about you not telling enough stories or setting enough shows and movies during the blip six years later, would would you still have done a five-year jump? Or would you maybe have done the six-month jump?

SPEAKER_03 57:35

I didn't know why it needed to be five years, other than five is a nice number, and that gives us the good setup for all of the math that comes later.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

Was it in the comics?

SPEAKER_00 57:49

No, in the comics, uh Thados wiped out half of all humanity for about uh s four days, maybe? It's been a while since I read these. And Munsey's not here to fact check because they read it again for our mini episode, in which we covered the fact that this whole I must balance the universe because we're using the match resources thing was made up for these movies. In the comics, he's just like real horny for the anthropomorphic personification of death. Seems more confusing.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:23

It would have been at the time. Now that they've cast Aubrey Plaza in that role, we would have had no questions. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 58:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Why did he wipe out half of all life? He was flexing for Aubrey Plaza. No further questions, Thanos is right.

SPEAKER_02 58:37

Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay, but the thing is they had to do the five-year jump, though, because they had to make it so, so sad that Iron Man has a daughter who will remember him.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

Yes, and that couldn't happen in six months.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

No. No, she has to be of an age. Also, Piper Potts has to recover from the birth enough that she can be there for the final fight. Because everyone who has ever been in a Marvel movie must be there for the final fight. Except for Vision and Blackwind. Tilda Swinton.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

And Tilda Swinton. She shows up early.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

She she's there earlier, but yeah, Vision's not there because Vision Vision is dead. Dead, dead.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Yeah. As is Black Widow.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

Tilda Swin's one of my unexpected legacy cameos. But yes, Black Widow had her final moment earlier in the movie. And Vision was dead forever until WandaVision in the previous movie.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess Gomorra was also dead forever, except not because time travel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

That Gamora is still dead forever. That's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

It's a different.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

There's still a sense of consequence.

SPEAKER_02 59:40

Isn't Paul Bettney the voice of someone though? So he was still in the movie?

SPEAKER_00 59:45

No, because he'd been the voice of Tony's onboard computer up until he became Vision. And now Friday is the voice. Yes. Right, right. Carrie Condon, who plays Friday. Okay. I'm just going to assume is in the Vision Quest series is coming out where all the AIs are like living in a virtual world in Vision's head or something. I don't know what it is. I just know that James Spader's back is Ultron, and two of the creators of the play that goes wrong play Tony Stark's original robots from Iron Man.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

Interesting. Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

That is fun.

unknown 1:00:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:21

Anyway, this movie is dumb, but also what until the final battle happens, and then we're like, we're here for this. This is what we wanted. We wanted this battle. Everything's making sense now.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

I'm into the origin the rest of the movie because it's a time heist and I'm not made of stone.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:42

No, time heist is always good. You can't get you cannot go wrong with time heist, especially when they compare it to Hot Tub Time Machine. When you drop Hot Tub Time Machine into something, we're here. Well, and I do like I like the pairings.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

You know, it's part of the reason why um Infinity War also kind of worked because they ended up in these like unique pairings that you wouldn't have gotten in other Avengers movies. Like Rocket and Thor going to have a sweet conversation with Renee Russo. I love Rocket and Thor.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

They're still a great combo. There's a just nice sweet moment between Nebula and War Machine about wasn't always like this. Me neither, but we use what we got. Uh there's a few moments before the time jump that I just want to call attention to. There is such a key moment in Nebula's character journey in playing foil flick football with Tony Stark.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

It's a very funny scene. And okay, this is what I really actually love about this movie, is we've got a lot of comedy in it. Like, yes, comedy was sprinkled through, but this one has a lot of that comedic element in it where you're like, this is actually really funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

Well, there's a lot of good comedy pieces, but really what does that one for me is that this is the first time in Nebula's life that she's allowed to compete in something in an extremely low-stakes way.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

Oh, yeah. No one's gonna kill her.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

He's not gonna cut off a part of her and replace it if she does badly. She's not punished for not doing well and is encouraged to keep trying, then she wins and is congratulated.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

And I think that's what gets Nebula from Guardians 2 to Nebula from Guardians 3.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

And also the fact that for five years she and Rocket only had each other. Which is why her reaction to finding out Rocket's okay hits so hard in Guardians 3.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:32

Yes. Okay, and like the super sweet moment that relates to this after the jump when she's talking to the other Gomorrah and explaining what they become in the future. And she's like, Yeah, when she's like, you know, we tried to kill each other, but then we became sisters, and you're just like, Shut up, Karen. Why are you such a good actor with all that makeup on?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:51

I hate you, but you're so good. She is so good. She any yeah, she is so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Plus, Tony's reaction to Rocket for the first time is priceless to me. Swear to God, up until just now I thought you were a build-a-bear. Maybe I am.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:09

It's because Rocket's also such a good character. Because Rocket only cares about himself. And Groot. And Groot. And Groot. We can never forget about Groot.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:19

Oh my god, comedy moments when Gamora's like, I loved that guy from Star Lord. And Nebula's like, it was him or a tree.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:29

Or Groot, when Thor is back on the ship, and he's like, and they're fighting over who's actually in charge. And everyone's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Star Lord's like, oh, but we know it's me. And Groot's like, I am Groot. And everyone's like, and you're like, yes. Groot doesn't think it's you. Groot thinks it's Thor. It is Thor.

unknown 1:03:52

It's totally.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:53

Like I said, I only care about Thor. No, because Thor, okay, Thor's comedy started so strong in Infinity War. So good. Him and Star Lord together, glorious. Love every second of it. I love two Chris's battling for who is the better Chris.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

I mean, Ragnarok really kicked that off with reminding us that Chris Hemsworth is incredibly funny when given the opportunity to do so.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

But also here, yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:20

Yep.

unknown 1:04:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

Love his drunk rambling about how the ether works.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

He does this scene with her name.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

Endgame also corrects one of the failings of Infinity War as a Russo Brothers movie. Infinity War had no cameos from cast members of community. So Endgame has two.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The thing I like about Endgame is it has Joss Wheaton sensibilities without like the things that Joss Wheaton are is obsessed with. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Nobody faceplamps into anybody's moves.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:56

Yep. And he doesn't kill a beloved character without any consequence.

unknown 1:05:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

Which Joss Whedon loves to do. Loves to do. It's his favorite thing. Also, you know, I like Buffy as much as the rest of us, but it seems like there was consider considerably less creepiness on this project.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

So there was. The Russo's are allowed to be in rooms with all of their actresses.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:20

Yep. So I appreciate that we got like a Joss Whedon type movie for the modern day. I agree. And that we can learn it's not just him who can do this.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:29

Yeah. I also I love how it has to be Black Widow who dies. Because we know that Hawkeye has to go back to his family. Because at the end of this movie, because we know there's no surprise, they're going to win. That's it's going to happen. And we know that they're going to get everybody back, and Hawkeye is gonna go back to his family.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Well, Natasha would never let him not go back to his family. We don't know a lot about her at this point, but we know. Enough from the things they've shown us that Clint going back to his children is important to her.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

Yes. She's not gonna tell those three kids that her fa their father didn't make it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

Yeah, no, he is going back, and it's such a great moment, and it really solidifies their relationship. And then when he when they're at um Tony's funeral at the end, and it's him and Wanda together, and they're just both like lamenting their lost loves in different ways, and it's just so sweet.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

And we go to Thor, or not Thor, uh Smart Hulk being like, I tried so hard to snap her back.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:39

Yeah. And it wouldn't let me. Yeah. Like it's so it's so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

You get all you get so many stages of grief on that little dog. Thor's denial and bargaining of no, this is space magic, and you're all working outside your pay grade on this one. And Hulk eventually just hurling the bench saying, we can't. It it ha what happened happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

Unfortunately, the only person who could have warned them that that was what was gonna happen was Thanos, and he wasn't really in a position to do so because he was very dead or five years earlier.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

Yep, dead slash didn't have the stones yet. Yep. Also, he wasn't gonna tell them.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:23

No, he's Thanos. His whole thing was he's inevitable.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

He's not here to be helpful.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:31

Also, the best line. I'm inevitable. Yeah, well, I'm Iron Man. Yeah. Perfect, perfect one-liner for a superhero movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:43

You know, that a sequence of Thor and Iron Man and um Captain America fighting Thanos, like the three OG most powered Avengers fighting the space guard. It was incredible.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:58

It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:59

Thor is finally ready, and he does his magic and his beard braids, and he puts on his Thor costume, and he has his big thing and his small one.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:10

It's so good. It's so good. I love that. The moment where it's the three of them standing before everybody else joins them, and it's just the three of them, and they're like, here we go. We three got this, and it's so good. It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:27

And then everyone shows up, and that's amazing too.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

So, for that moment, one of my notes was that when Steve has to fight past Steve, and when they travel back to the the climax of the Avengers.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

Yep. I was like, okay, young Steve is using I can do this all day wrong. Right? It's not posturing. It's when he's gotten beat from one side of the room to the other and stands up and saying, I can do this all day, it doesn't indicate he will not stay down. That's when he busts that out, young Steve. But the moment to have done that was right before all the portals opened, and Sam was gonna drop on your left, and that's too many classic Captain America catchphrases in one moment. You can't do them both, back to back. And on your left was gonna hit much harder in that moment. So just having him speechless to hear Stan's voice again was the way to go. Portals is obviously a beautiful sequence. I did see one YouTube once with what if instead of the Portals song that Alan Sylvestri wrote for this scene, they all entered to their own individual theme music from their movies. I was like, I love this in principle. Unfortunately, only two of these people or sets of people have memorable themes.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:46

I was gonna say it would be too niche. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

That would be Doctor Strange and The Guardians of the Galaxy. I could not hum you any music from any Spider-Man movie that wasn't the original 60s theme song in an orchestral version.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:01

Yeah. I will say, I will admit this in the safe space, I've seen this movie before, and I think both times when I saw it, when Pepper Potts drops down in her little space suit, both times I'm like, who is this woman? I was like, and it flashes so quickly that both times I've been like, was that Captain, not Captain America, uh Captain Marvel? Yeah. And then no, she has her big moment where she space flies through the spaceship and explodes it. It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

Correct, Thanos' flagship. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:32

I love it so much. I also then love, because we've seen this before. We saw the lady moment in Infinity War, and now we're back for a lady moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

And it's it's a little empty and a little performative, but it makes incels mad, and thus I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:48

Yeah, exactly. It's great. I'm here for this lady moment, and we get all of them this time because every single one of them is there. Mm-hmm. Except for Except for Scarlett Johansson, because she's real dead.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

Arguably the most important one, but she is very gonna do to help there. The important thing to remember about Scarlett Johansson's character, Black Widow, is she doesn't have any powers.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:12

I mean, neither does Okoye. Okoye straight up kills Corvus Glaive, whose name you may or may not remember from our last episode. Yeah, but about four seconds after that moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

She did. But she uh was trained. She was. I guess Scarlett Johansson was trained by the Russian mob. I don't know her backstory.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

Also, one could argue uh Captain Marvel just one-punched a spaceship. What are any of these people gonna do to back her up? Why is she just laser blast the entire field and stroll to the van?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:46

No, we need a powerful lady moment. The men already had their powerful men moment. We need a powerful lady moment. That's kind of why she had to stay out of the fight, because she's a little too overpowered. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:58

She also says that earlier, because before, like, when they're like, so what's going on with you? Why weren't you here earlier? And she's like, there's a lot of planets, a lot of stuff going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

They don't all have you.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:11

We know. We know that she's gotta go do other space stuff on other planets.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

We also got like an awesome Spider-Man moment where he's swinging around and being so cute and like fangirling about everyone he meets.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:22

I love him so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

I love his need to introduce himself to everybody. Everybody. And the best one for me is just cowering on the ground clutching the scotlet. Hi! I'm Peter Parker. Hey Peter Parker, got something for me?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:39

It's so cute. I love him so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:43

I did time how long Corvus Glaive lasted because I honestly thought it was faster. He made it nine minutes, and he even managed to kill a couple as guardians, which is more than I thought, but still, once we've done the big all the ladies together moment, he lasts about three seconds. Akoye is a woman with a pointed stick, and we know he has no defense against that.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:06

Yeah, no, he can't he can't deal with pointed stick.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:09

He does better than whatever the big guy's name, though, who gets stepped on by Ant-Man in about two minutes.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:16

I love that. I love Giant Ant-Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

That is a good beat too, though, right? Like when it it's Doctor Strange and his buddy, right? Where he's like, I thought there'd be more. And his buddy's like, You wanted more than this? Yes. Ant-Man emerges. Big Ant-Man. It's so giant.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

Giant-sized Ant-Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:34

With Rocket Thor and Roadie.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

It's stop them from drowning. Yep. They could not hear him, they did not know he was coming, but he was coming.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:42

He was there. Ugh, it's so good. And it is, okay. If we're talking epic battles, this is an epic battle. Like, we are here in a movie called Endgame that is supposed to be the end of a franchise, even though it's not.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:58

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:59

No. This is what we're here for. We want this. And it's so frickin' cool. And we get to see the coolness from each person. Like, as it like Doctor Strange stopping the waterfall, um, Black Panther just being like, give it to me, and then doing his awesome Black Panthering through everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

Like Plus, he remembered Clint's name from when Clint introduced himself at the German airport.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:25

He did, he sure did. It's really cute.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:28

Okay, and seeing Chadwick Bozeman at the funeral is so sad because he was sick at this point. And like you can tell that he is much smaller than he was in Black Panther.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:41

Yeah. I feel like the one big concession to the fact that Black Panther was such a mammoth hit and they weren't able to account for that by the time Infinity War happened, is Tichalla being the first one through the portals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

I feel like in any other event, Sam would have been the first one through the portal. Yeah. But they knew how much people love Black Panther and Wakanda and all that, so first through is Tachala and Shuri and Okoye.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:07

Yeah. Well, because as we yelled about last time, Black Panther is so cool. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

He's very cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:15

Ooh, one minute seven seconds. The big guy lasted one minute and seven seconds before he got stepped on by Ant-Man.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:22

Amazing. But really perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:24

The Black Order was only here to indicate that they weren't new hires in Infinity War and had been around the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:31

Yeah. It's the same guys, because they came from the past. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:35

Other than that, they have so little to do that Carrie Kuhn isn't even back to voice Proximate Midnight.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:41

Yeah. Okay. So I mean the movie does kind of hit some of the same beats over and over because they need to give everyone their beat, and that's fine. That's the point of the movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

We still like it. They still give us the good music, so our heart like swells the way it's supposed to. Yep. I'm probably opening up a conversation to comic book bros that I don't want to wade into and I don't care about.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:02

Don't worry, I'm gonna make them much madder than you in a minute.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:05

I don't love that they killed Iron Man. I understand how it serves his story. It just seems weird that he's like the only one who didn't get a happy ending. Like all he got was Pepper being like, it's okay, everyone's alive. You can let go now. And it just didn't serve the Iron Man. I haven't seen Iron Man 3, obviously. I don't know why Pepper has a costume, so I clearly have not seen it. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:31

Uh the costume's not from Iron Man 3. The costume is set up by Morgan having found the helmet when we first meet her.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:40

Oh. Uh-huh. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:43

Being the joke, your mother never wears anything up here anyway.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:47

Okay, because I also haven't I've only actually ever seen the first Iron Man. So I don't know how Ironmans go.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:56

It just like it feels really unfair to me that like Steve Rogers gets to travel back in time to the 1940s and live an entire life with Agent Carter, and Iron Man has to die when his kid is five.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:10

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's it's also the way this movie was leading us to be, you know? Because now we have the epic death of the hero. He's already made his piece because he met his dad. He like he's done, he's done it. He's leaving his legacy. I'm not saying it's it's correct, but it's the way the movie was going for us. Like we knew that one of them, one of the big ones, had to die.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:37

Plus, turning comic books into live-action movies and TV shows introduced an element the comic books have never had, that being mortality in the flow of time. Because Green Arrow will be 35 Forever, but Stephen ML sure wasn't. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And Tony Stark is Forever Young in the comics, but Robert Downey Jr. is getting to a point where he's like, I don't know, I'd rather stop doing this and then go do a movie where I talk with the animals, squawk with the animals. Oh, that didn't work. I better do a supporting role for Christopher Nolan. And maybe they thought, you know, it's time we gotta wrap up Iron Man. If we don't write Iron Man out of this franchise, then we'll never be able to do one of these giant movies without leaning completely on Robert Downey Jr. again. Oh, hey, funny story.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:25

Wait, wait, he's coming back for us.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:28

Silly us. I'm just saying, maybe I saw the future when I saw this movie in 2019, and I was like, that didn't work for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:35

No, I agree with you. Also, one of the reasons I'm kind of crossing my fingers for a reboot of the MCU in the wake of Secret Wars is I would just I I just think it would be neat to have a continuity for film where Iron Man and Captain America and the Fantastic Four and the X-Men all exist together. Instead of, well, we've run out of founding X-Men or we've run out of Founding Avengers, so let's bring in the X-Men, and they can hang out with uh Shang-Chi and who have we not fired because the incels told us that we had to.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:15

I do love the X-Men. Me too. I do I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:19

Now, my piss-off Comic Bros thing is there's a lot of film bros out there on the Marvel subreddits who will complain about things that were missing from the giant end fight. That being, oh, but Drax never gets to fight Thanos. Oh, Hulk never got his rematch against Thanos. I'm like, why do you care?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:39

What would it have mattered?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:41

No. We get a super awesome fight, and that's really what we're here for. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:46

And Thanos is brought down by one thing and one thing only, and that is Iron Man's Counter Stab. Yes. The fact that we went from with all five stones, he could wipe out half the universe with a snap of his fingers to it specifically has to be a snap of the fingers or the stones won't work. Silly? But fine. That is silly.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:09

But so much of this is silly and dumb. Like I said earlier, this movie is dumb before stuff, but it's let Avengers wrestle with Thanos to Keep her from closing his hand.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:21

Okay? I'll allow it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:23

Yes. Yes. It's cute.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:25

That's how the gauntlet works. It it needs to be a closed hand or like a it needs to be a mental trigger to tell the stones and do it now, like breaking a one-wish willow.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:36

You also, it's so silly because if you close your fist, you a glove can't come off. You can't snap your fish. You can't snap your fingers, but a glove also can't come off. We've got two things happening. They just have to keep him in closed fist forever.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:50

Well, my thing is, why would it matter if Hulk punched Thanos three times before we got to the end of the state of the floor?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:58

Hulk even has to matter. Like, I know he's sad, but they're all sad.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:02

The people saying this are just mad that Hulk lost his first fight and never got a rematch. It's like, that's not what Hulk's Redemption is. Hulk's Redemption is a character is not taking Thanos' lunch money right on back. It's reconciling the halves of your personality. Sorry that happened during the time jump and none of us got to see it.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:20

Yeah, no, he's smart Hulk now. He's all here for making the time heist work.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:26

And his moment of it works off gamma energy. It's like I was made for this. It has to be me who does the snap.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:32

And it did have to be him, but then it did. Because it couldn't be anybody else in that moment. We still have so much more than that.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:41

That's also an awesome moment, though, when they're like getting ready for him to do the snap and they're all having like their different ways to be shielded. That's good. It's so good. It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:50

Armor on, armor on, big shield in front of Hawkeye.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:53

Sorry, no, it's really good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:56

And Rocket Yout shouting boo while Tony's putting the gems in the gauntlet.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:01

So good.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:01

And Above that really sums up the relationship of the comics of you're only a genius on earth, Stark.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:07

Anyway, I'm here for Avengers movies. I love them. Give me a good three-hour superhero movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:13

I had so many notes. I'm just trying to figure out if any of them are worth circling back to.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:17

I was gonna say, they really do though in this one. They denumaw for so long. Their denum is like an hour.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:25

Man, all they need to do was do the thing that Buffy did where they're like, here lies Tony Stark. He saved the world a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:31

Yep. But no, no, they they denouunted, and then they're like, oh, and by the way, we have to wrap up this storyline, and that's we have to put the infinity stones back. I know y'all forgot about it, except for like die hard fans, but we gotta put them all back.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:47

Because it's important, it's important we leave the time stream exactly as we left it, with the exception of the fact that Thanos created a new time zone, which he spontaneously disappeared in 2014 and nobody knows why.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:59

And Captain America is just gonna go back to the 1940s, which don't get me wrong, we love it. That's what he wants. Live your best life, hot Chris. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:09

We never found out who Peggy Carter's actual husband was. We don't know he didn't do that all.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:15

Okay, here's the thing. And because we started all of these we started the Avengers with um Captain America, the first Avenger. So we have to close everything with Captain America. I know we didn't start like start start, but we started.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:28

I mean that was the fourth movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:30

He's called the first Avenger. We have to wrap it up with Captain America.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:36

I think I don't care about Captain America. No, I don't care about it. Because I think he doesn't have stories.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:40

No, he's Captain America. He can never die because he's Captain America.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:45

And like his name is Steve. That's barely a name.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:48

His name is and also correct. Steve Rogers. His name is Steve Rogers. Let's never forget this. All of his names are not names.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:59

Anyway. We have to end. Do we help you?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:02

Do we help you? We we can talk about how hot he is in this movie again because it's his movie, and they shaved his beard because now it's Captain America's movie. And as we all know.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:12

I did also have that note that he shaves his beard because it's Captain America's movie. Yeah, he's hot now. So he has to be the hotter Chris. I just have a random note that might not make a lot of sense to people of look, there's probably nothing to the fact that Dominic Cooper played Howard Stark in the first Captain America movie, then on the Agent Carter TV show, and then as soon as the Agent Carter TV show happened, Dominic Cooper never played that role again, and it was John Slattery every time.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:37

Mm-hmm. They did a DH John Slattery.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:41

But, you know, there are in fact two Agent Carter leads getting cameos in this movie. So who's to say? Maybe, you know, maybe that's the one TV show that they liked at that point before they got bullied into liking Daredevil.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:55

People like Daredevil? Apparently. Do people even like Daredevil as a superhero?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:00

People really like Daredevil.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:01

Do you remember when Ben Affleck did the movie and it was terrible?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:05

Well, they don't like that Daredevil, but they like the Netflix show and the new Disney Plus revival. They neither forget nor forgive, but Charlie Cox is here now.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:21

I do like Charlie Cox. Generally. I don't know Daredevil.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:25

I'm gonna call attention to the fact that uh Happy Hogan telling little Morgan Stark your dad loved cheeseburgers too. I'm gonna get you all the cheeseburgers you want. That hit a lot harder on this viewing than the last several times I watched this movie. Yeah, heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:41

Heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:42

But in fairness, last time I watched this, I still had a dad. Yep. So that's probably a factor.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:49

Heartbreaking. It's so cute as well because okay, she's a really good child actor. We've seen a lot of children. I also work with children, but she's a really solid child actor. Because they've got her doing the cutest stuff, and she never disappoints. I love you 3000. So cute. What do you want to eat? What do you want? Cheeseburgers? So cute. She's a cute kid. They did a good job casting. They did a good job directing. My heart. My heart.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:25

I mean, everybody knows that the moment Chris Hemsworth hit just the absolute hardest was I'm still worthy. Don't spend a lot of time on that.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:35

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. So it's like the future spin apart on you. I love him so much. Now I'm thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:44

Him and his mom. Him and his mom. Everything about him is the best. Thor is the best.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:50

Thor is the best. I don't care. Come on. Thor is so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:54

I mean, I'm still a huge fan of Ant-Man pausing his sleep-deprived rant about the quantum realm with is that anyone's sandwich?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:02

Also good, because we set up the sandwich just prior with I'll throw his peanut butter sandwich at you.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:09

My final note was, no, Disney Plus, I don't want to watch Infinity War next. That is the wrong order.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:16

Yes. It offered that to me too! It wants us to go backward now.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:22

It's just a cycle. We're an aura horas. We just need our own tale forever.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:27

It's like, you're done with this, shall you watch them in reverse?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:34

I don't want to watch Infinity War next. I want to watch The Marvels next, because I was just sobbing over Morgan Stark, and now I need to feel joy again.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:45

So that's what I did.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:46

That's that's a good choice. You did good.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:49

I watched it, then I went to bed. That was the wrong choice. I had weird dreams.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:53

Also watched it and then went to bed. For this viewing. I've seen it many a time before, but

SPEAKER_00 1:28:00

I'm just also gonna give a parting thought of I hate Thanos' stupid overpowered helicopter blade sword. I hate so much. I'm glad Wanda took it away from him. But then he got it back. Stupid sword. Now, obviously this was the domestic and international box office champion. Nothing was really coming close to it. Number two, Disney abuses the phrase live action when they hork out an all CG version of the Lion King that nobody claimed to like, but still made mountains of money.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:31

It's because everybody went to go see it because of nostalgia, and then we were all upset. And Schortenfreuder. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:39

Doesn't explain why everybody went to watch the prequel too. No, that's right. To the same extent. Still way too many. Yeah. At number three, Avengers Endgame is forged out of a tower of fan service, which we didn't even cover. We didn't even mention the Russo brothers. Definitely bringing back the elevator fight as a reference. But down the hall at Lucasfilm came a tower of fan service which didn't land in Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker. I said what I had to say three episodes back.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:09

When we can reveal now. No, that won't matter. That's the movie I accidentally watched when we talked about The Last Jedi.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:18

I was just gonna say, this is the movie that Erin watched.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:21

If only there'd been some sort of hint at the very beginning as to which one it was.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:27

There's no way to tell. The casino movie?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:30

No. I can't explain what happened in my brain. We've just we've missed so many second movies that I was like, clearly the one we've missed was the second movie. It's also called The Last Jedi.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:43

So you still didn't get your casino planet.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:46

Nope. I never shall. No, we're done now. We can't go back.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:52

At number four, two sisters must grapple with their parents' colonizer past while one finds a connection with a mysterious female voice. It turns out to be herself! Boo! Cowards in Frozen 2.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:06

It should be her future wife, Frozen 2. It also didn't give us the banger that let it go was. It gave us a good song, Let's Be Real here.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:17

It just Into the Unknown is fine at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:20

It's no let it go.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:22

Let it go. But Olaf recapping the entire events of the first movie is uh is a great sequence.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:29

Perfection. Right. And Christoph's song, where he shows like the least toxic max masculinity ever. It's just a song where he tries to figure out how to love Honorite.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:39

And he's a one-man 90s boy band.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:42

Yes, it's so good. Young men need to see that.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:46

They do. Uh number five, when Woody finds himself supplanted by a sentient spork consumed by existential horror, he must finally grapple with what life after being the favorite toy could be in Toy Story Four.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:59

And now the fifth one's out. I've been seeing four. Four's four's pretty pretty alright. I mean it's pretty alright. You expect a trilogy. Three, peak end of trilogy. I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:13

But four has taken now what energy, but you know, sometimes that can work.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:19

Now what energy sustains supernatural for ten years.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:23

Truth. It sure did.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:27

At number six, before Endgame, the story of a Kree warrior discovering her secret past and how Carol Danvers became the Earth's actually strongest hero in Captain Marvel. At number seven, after Endgame, Peter Parker grapples with life post-Tony Stark while also trying to land MJ on a trip through Europe in Spider-Man Far From Home.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:51

Yeah. So cute.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:54

Number eight. Speaking of horking up live-action Disney products, does anything sum up how empty these things are, like Jasmine singing a girl boss song about not being silenced right before being kidnapped, and thinking Will Smith just standing in a street and singing Prince Sally normally recaptures anything about that number? And Guy Ritchie's take on it on Aladdin.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:15

Guy Ritchie shouldn't have been the one to do it shouldn't have happened to begin with, because I I'm not a fan of any of the live-action remakes, but Guy Ritchie was the real wrong person.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:27

Yeah, choices were made.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:29

Yep. Finally reached live-action Disney remakes of the movies we talked about.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:33

Yep. Yeah. No one's ever gonna be Robin Williams. Sorry. That's true. Sorry, Will Smith.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:39

At number nine, Joker. Audiences really went all in on this. And as I said, the five years later the director made a sequel about how much he hated them for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:47

Yeah, all the wrong people liked this movie. I will say though, I am a wrong person because I did like this movie. No, you're not the wrong people. Just people, the wrong people took the wrong things from this movie. Yes, yes. You liked it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:00

You didn't make it your personality.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:01

Oh god, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:02

You didn't put out a multi-hour YouTube ranting about how unjust it was that it lost the Oscar to Parasite.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:09

No, because that was that would have been wrong. You're a normal person who liked it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:14

You're not out there on Al Gore's internet saying what character means more to the American culture than the Joker.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:20

Yes, because they're also wrong. That's not okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:24

Don't identify with him.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:26

No. I have not watched that YouTube because I value myself too much to subject myself to it, but Amanda the Jedi had some good commentary on it. And at number 10, when friends grow apart, you can take drastic measures to bring them back together. Such as tricking them to getting sucked back into that haunted video game, along with one of their grandfathers and his elderly pal in Jumanji the Next Level.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:49

This is, I think, the No, it's the second last movie I saw in theaters before the pandemic. I saw it by myself, and then after that, I saw cats by myself, and I may have been the cause of the pandemic. Because the universe was like, oh, we're gonna make that your personality.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:07

Oh, I got a bunch of friends together to watch cats on the big screen, and then uh had to pee right before Skimble Shanks and was so mad.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:16

The only good song.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:17

Yeah, I clearly should have gone during Gus the Theater Cat.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:23

Internationally, it's the same ten movies they've just shuffled, mostly. Vengers and the Lion King are still at number one and two, Frozen Two comes in at three, Spider-Man at four, Captain Marvel five, Joker all the way up to six. Seven is Rise of Skywalker, Solo didn't make the top ten, something Disney didn't know could happen to a Star Wars. And internationally, Rise of Skywalker didn't make the top five, and that's how Disney got spooked, and we didn't get a Star Wars movie in theaters for another seven years. Well, six and a half. And then it came out, you know what? It's fine. It's fun. You could watch it.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:05

I will watch it.

unknown 1:35:06

I haven't.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:07

Toy Stories number eight, Aladdin number nine, Jumanji hanging in at number ten. For pairing. Apparently I forgot again.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:16

I went with um some stolen whiskey that you have to drink very quietly under a table while people have awkward sex beside you for parasite. And then some good old fashioned just American beer. Because we all know that Endgame is Captain America's movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:37

Well, I think we should all just drink some Sapporo Premium Lager.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:40

I myself uh would opt to get fucked up on soju. A clearing color is still the alcoholic beverage from Korea.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:47

Mm.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:48

Mm-hmm. Which, when flavored and served in a soccer ball at a Korean karaoke bar leads to a good night and a bad morning.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:56

Yeah, sounds like. Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:59

Terms of Academy versus audience. Not gonna sit here and pretend Parasite's not the better movie. I will admit that one of these I've seen three times, one of these I've seen probably closer to six.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:13

I can't imagine I will watch Parasite again in the near future. I can absolutely imagine that I'm gonna want to feel some things one day and watch Endgame. So I believe in that answer. I've picked neither.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:32

Pulling a Claire on this one. I mean, I might also say I picked neither because my heart belongs to JoJo Rabbit, but Are we all pulling a Claire on this one and going, this one's really good, and also I like this one? Yes, yes, we are.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:52

It's fair. It's fair. Sure, it's the question that at some point in the 1940s decided was the core question of our entire endeavor, but this is a podcast, there's no regulation. Next time, the Academy had to deal with the fact that a massive global health crisis basically killed the entertainment industry for most of the subsequent year. What would they do? How would they adapt? What would they do to make the Oscars the thing that would help welcome the world back out of a long year of isolation? And their answer was eight joyless festival darlings no one had seen. Meanwhile, being the box office jampu 2020 was really not very hard to do domestically, and opened the doors for the Asian markets to start claiming that title for themselves. So we'll see how all that went. Perhaps with the return of an old and dear friend, we hit our final part decade, the 2020s. In the meantime, we are writing therapyproductions.com. You can find all of our episodes there and all of our other projects for Oscar V audience on Threads Instagram and Blue Sky. Jump on there, tell me why I'm wrong to think Parasite is not as good as little women, and I will not invite you to my birthday party, but I'll hear you out. And I'm Dana Forth on All Those Places, plus Letterboxd where you can see how I rank Avengers Endgame amongst all the box office champions since 1927. I will admit, it is much, much higher than the Blackface District, but it would almost have to be.