Get To Know Clean Water's New CEO! Jeff Carter

In this episode, we are pleased to have Clean Water Action's new CEO & President Jeff Carter! Prior to joining Clean Water, Jeff led Physicians for Social Responsibility (PSR), a physician-led organization in the US working to protect the public from the threats of nuclear proliferation, climate change, and environmental toxins. Our conversation with Jeff covers his vision for Clean Water, his background and success stories with PSR, and why every community has a right to safe, clean and affordable drinking water. This is an episode you don't want to miss!

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Transcript

Jeff Carter (00:01):

I think access to clean drinking water, like literacy is a fundamental right. It's a fundamental justice issue. The fact that there are people in this country, this is the wealthiest country in the history of the world, the fact that there are people here who don't have access to clean water is completely ridiculous. And it's so solvable. This isn't, this isn't nuclear weapons. This does not involve complicated international geopolitics. Okay, we can do this.

Jenny Vickers (00:38):

Hello everyone. Welcome to We All Live Downstream, a Cleanwater action podcast. In each episode, we will be interviewing leading environmental cleanwater activists about their work in the field. We'll dive deep into topics from drinking water and climate change to environmental justice, plastic pollution, and toxic chemicals. I'm your host, Jenny Vickers, the National Communications Manager for Clean Water Action. Today, I am super excited to introduce you to drum roll, please, Clean Water Action's new CEO and President Jeff Carter <laugh>. As some of you may know, our former CEO and president Bob Wendellgass retired after being with Cleanwater Action for 32 years, and we wish him our very best. We are excited to introduce you all to Jeff and learn more about him in today's podcast. Jeff, welcome to We All Live Downstream. So happy to have you here.

Jeff Carter (01:30):

It is great to be here to, to, to be in this job and to be in this pod. I would say though that I'm, I'm like I'm nervous because you said at the beginning you're gonna, this podcast interview's leading environmental and clean water activist <laugh>, and I'm, I'm still not sure I'm in that category, but I'm, I'm looking forward to giving a try.

Jenny Vickers (01:49):

Oh, well, I begged to differ. I'm very excited to hear all about you today and learn more about you. So, and I'm sure our listeners are too. So congratulations on becoming Cleanwater actions new c e o and President. So I'm just gonna dive right in. What do you see good <laugh>, what do you see as the biggest strength tha Clean Water action right now?

Jeff Carter (02:12):

Wow, there's, there's a lot to say about that. I think, I think it's, you know, it's, it's the people and it's the commitment to, to this work, and it's long history of doing that work. I got to know, I got to know Bob when the last little bit over the last few years, and I've just always really admired him. And I always thought that that was, that he probably reflected a certain kind of set of values at the organization that he represented. And it appears so far that that was true. It just felt right. You know, it's funny. I I, it wasn't really until I had a chance to meet with the board of directors and the staff who were involved in the process as well, of the recruitment for the new ceo. It wasn't until then I was really sure once I got to meet people, I realized that this was a place that I, I really thought I would feel at home at. And so far that's been true.

Jenny Vickers (03:10):

Yes. I, I couldn't agree with you more. I think one of the, you know, most inspiring things are the people around us that we work with here at Cleanwater Action. I'm just constantly in awe and inspired by the work that everyone does. And so I just wanna know, what are you most looking forward to in your new role?

Jeff Carter (03:30):

Well, you know, right now I'm, I'm really enjoying meeting all the people who work at cleanwater. And I'm really looking forward to continuing to do that. I got a lot to learn, and that learning process is really exciting and fun. I plan to go out and visit all the states in which we have an office and learn more about how they work, right. You know, right on the ground. So that's really exciting. And then, you know, long-term I'm working to, I I'm really looking forward to working to help the organization grow and expand both nationally and at the state level, and to strengthen our impact.

Jenny Vickers (04:06):

So what inspired you to pursue the president and CEO position at Clean Motor Action?

Jeff Carter (04:12):

You know, it's, it's really a lot of things. So I already mentioned the people, so I start there. I, I think I see, I saw Clean Water as a culture that was in part already, and also striving to be a culture very similar to what I was trying to build at physicians for Social Responsibility, which was my former organization. I, I, I really, really like the commitment that Cleanwater has to environmental justice, the fact that so much of the work we do is happening at the local and community level. Before I got involved way back, before I got involved in environmental movement and the Peace movement after that, I got my starting advocacy in adult education. It's adult literacy, ESL and things like that. And I, what I really loved about that, and I sort of forgotten about, was that I really love working to support community-based adult education in particular.

(05:06):

Then there's some aspects of clean water's work at the local level. That sort of reminds me of that. The other thing was, compared to where I was clean water has a a much bigger toolbox to work with. At, at p s r part of our work was, for example, was working on nuclear weapons disarmament. And that, and that work in particular just doesn't have enough of a political movement, building infrastructure to make enough of an impact in the US right now. Not just P s R, but just in general. Clean, clean water has built a movement over the years and, you know, we have the canvas, we endorse candidates for office. So I really wanted to learn more about that and hopefully make that even stronger. There's lots of things. The the other thing I was thinking about before I started thinking about changing jobs was the fact that, you know, we had just passed this legislation federally, the infrastructure bill, the Inflation Reduction Act, and I realized that this was a fantastic time to I was, I was about to say dive in to water issues which I'll try to avoid making those kind of bad punch, but the really,

Jenny Vickers (06:14):

I like it. I'm here for

Jeff Carter (06:15):

It. <Laugh>, thank you. But, but I thought that this was the right time with the, with the federal support coming down, the, the, the investments coming down, I thought this was a good time to get stuff done on water. Things like lead pipes. I still cannot believe lead pipes is even an issue in this country. So I think it's a great time to really make, make a difference there. And a couple other things, well, at least one other thing I can think of, I, I, I really, I'm really interested in, in environmental justice. P S R has a very clear commitment to environmental justice, but I'm eager to do more. And again, it seemed to me that there were more things I could learn, and again, a bigger toolbox here to work on that. I, I do wanna say it was very hard to lead psr. It is like Cleanwater, it's a great organization, great history. I got to meet several heroes of mine, people like Richard Rhoads and Daniel Ellsberg. And met some new heroes like Beatrice Finn, who's the former executive director at the International Campaign to abolish nuclear weapons and a bunch of others I'm not thinking of now. But it's a great, it was a great experience. And yeah, so I'm, I'm very lucky that I'm going from a place that I love to this other great opportunity.

Jenny Vickers (07:28):

Yeah. So you, you mentioned P sr, and I was gonna ask you a little bit more about that. So you recently served six years as executive director. I know you've been a lifelong advocate, but and I wanna learn a little bit more about that. But for listeners who may not be, you know, familiar with P S R, can you just tell us a little bit more about your work there? Some background?

Jeff Carter (07:49):

Well, P S R, it's a great model. It, it, it's our membership is or I say, I still say our, when I talk about P sr, the P SR'S membership is mostly health professionals. It mobilizes those health professionals to speak out on the dangers posed by what are really the two great existential threats to the planet, right? Climate change and nuclear weapons and the health, we, you know, the health message around the, the issues associated with climate change and nuclear weapons can be very effective in advocacy. People tend to care a lot about their health. You can talk a lot, there's a lot of things you can talk about with climate change without even using the phrase climate change when you're talking about how it affects people's health. And so both the credibility of the Health voice and the way in which the issues are framed can be very effective. It's a great group. So that's the, that's, you know, mainly from the policy. PSR did not have a big grassroots at least at the time I worked psr, the grassroots on nuclear, which was really big back in the eighties. Not as strong nowadays. And that's not just psr that's across the board. But it's a great organization and I really learned a lot working there.

Jenny Vickers (09:09):

So, yeah. So you mentioned climate change. We, we always say climate change is water change here at Clean Cleanwater action. Yeah, that's right. So excited to see where we go with that. Given your background so what led you to a lifelong commitment to advocacy work you've been an advocate for, for a long time?

Jeff Carter (09:26):

Yeah, that's a great question. And it's only been late in life that I've re <laugh>. I've sort of come to realize that that is the through line in my professional career. And I don't really know, I think it's always been there. The first time I can remember really being conscious of it was when I was a, I was a, this is how I got involved in adult literacy. I was a volunteer tutor in Boston. And I was struck by the fact that just so happened that the person that I was, I was tutoring, he'd grown up in, in, in the city, and I grew up in the suburbs, and we were the exact same age. And he was a smart guy. He was, he was you know, everybody as smart as I was, really good person. But he had, essentially, the way I looked at it, he'd been gypped out of the educational opportunity that I had had growing up in a suburb just outside of Boston.

(10:17):

And that really bothered me. And it was one of the reasons why I wanted to, I wanted to, to spend some of my time helping people like that. And there's unfortunately far too many people like that through no fault or their own, or essentially been cheated out of a decent education in this country. Then I went to law school and I worked my, my final year in law school, I worked as a, as a student court appointed attorney in Dorchester district court. And I spent a lot of time there. And, you know, you could just sit there and watch the struggle for justice play out every single day for a brief time. I, I, I thought about becoming a criminal defense lawyer. But I, I don't think I would've been a very good, good one, <laugh>. I just didn't quite have the trial skills to do that. But I think that, that those experiences are young person is what kind of led me down that path.

Jenny Vickers (11:09):

Yeah. It's so interesting when you think back, it made me think back on my moment when I knew I wanted to do this work was I was canvassing and I was knocking on some doors in Tom's River and I was having a hard night, and I knocked on the door and a woman answered the door crying. She invited me in, she became a member. She told me she was struggling with cancer, and she hugged me. She hugged me. And later on I learned a, about the Times River Cancer cluster. And so I just, from that moment, that hug is, was my, you know, my commitment to advocacy. So it's, it's really interesting. I always wanna know what, what, what that spark was, you know? 

Jeff Carter (11:44):

Well, you know, you, you hit on something really important, Jenny. I think it's often that personal connection, you know, justice is not an abstract, it, it's not an abstract concept, a thing thing you, you, I think you learn about and get a sense of it from being with people who have suffered injustice. So I, it's interesting that that was what you remember about sort of triggering it for you. I think it's the same with me.

Jenny Vickers (12:06):

Yeah. Yeah. So, yep. Still doing this work. That's what, that's what I'm here for. So I was doing some research on you before the podcast. I listened to podcast you were in, and I read that PSR was just a little background real quick. Cause P Sr was a co-founder and US affiliate of international positions for the prevention of Nuclear War and shared in the 1985 Nobel Peace Prize PSR is also a member of the international campaign to bosh nuclear weapons, which won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2017. So I just wanted to know, what does it feel like to be part of the Nobel Peace Prizes?

Jeff Carter (12:43):

It's weird. <Laugh> the first one, I wasn't around for that, obviously, but the, but that, you know, it's still in that peace prize medallion is still part of the P s R letterhead. And for those of you listening who remember those days, the nuclear weapons disarmament movement in the United States in the 1980s is really an inspiration. So even though I, I wasn't part of that, it was kind of surreal to be around people who were you know, who are, who are among the million people that marched on Central Park and whatever that was against nuclear weapons, people who were mobilizers during the freeze movement. It's, you know, it's something that I really hope we're, we need that kind of a movement again with nuclear weapons. And it's just fascinating. So that was just like being a, it was like, started being a little bit connected to a piece of history that I knew about from the outside.

(13:43):

And then, then coming into it, the, the second piece prize, you know and, and by the way, I'm glad you're we're talking about this, even though it doesn't have anything specifically to do with clean water. Recently the, the chief seven countries met in Hiroshima, Japan, which is of course the site of the first atomic bombing. And I'm really hopeful that you know, this offers an opportunity for G seven leaders to reflect on the horrors of the, of a nuclear war and start to think about taking some steps to bring us back. We're, we're, we're unfortunately seemingly headed back towards potentially a new nuclear arms race, which I don't have to tell anybody li you or anybody listening would be tragic. Anyway that second Nobel Peace Prize that was strange in 2017, I had just, I really just begun the job at P S R.

(14:40):

Within months in starting that job, I'm at the UN and I'm, I'm actually, I've never been inside the UN before. And I'm watching these deliberations on a treaty to ban nuclear weapons, and I'm hanging out with this group I can. And which is to this day, one of the most amazing groups I've ever worked with. And incredibly small, I don't know the ratio of size of an organization to impact, to work with every country around the world to try to encourage them to slide onto this treaty to ban nuclear weapons. It was so inspirational. So inspirational, in fact, that they go and win the Nobel Peace Prize at the end of that summer, after the, the UN has approved the treaty. And so then all of a sudden that morning, and they announced it at like six in the morning, and I'm, my, my communications director is calling me saying, I've got all these interviews lined up, so I'm going on, you know, TV and the radio to talk about, you know I'm being, I'm going on the radio as a, as a, a leader in this field, a field that I just entered less than a, a few years before.

(15:49):

I, I mean, I think I did okay. And actually I think that's good. It's a good lesson. You don't need to be an expert with 30 years of experience. Like many people have a clean water and many people associated P s r you just have to have the basic knowledge and some passion and the willingness to learn. And you know, that's probably what I, it was the whole thing was surreal, but I, I learned a lot during that process and I, I really can't say enough about, again, about I a n

Jenny Vickers (16:18):

That's, that's super cool. Thanks for sharing that. I wanna talk a little bit more about P S R, but, you know, move on to like clean water action. Like what whatcha are you gonna do here? Yeah, <laugh>, I wanna hear like some favorite success stories. Yeah. Some things you've learned that you wanna bring here to Clean Water Action to help us achieve our goals.

Jeff Carter (16:38):

Yeah. Well, you know, I think about the things that I'm, so, of course I've, I've just started, so I'm, I'm starting the process of thinking what did I learn at p sr and in another positions in the past that I can bring to these organizations? And one of the things I've been thinking about is I'm really proud of the way that while I was at P S R, we worked to reframe the whole discussion around nuclear weapons, at least in part, in terms of justice, particularly racial justice. Nuclear weapons are obviously incredibly dangerous. But that's only part of the story. The story of nuclear weapons development and testing the way that nuclear weapons armed states continue to use their arsenals to and threaten people around the world is steeped in racism and injustice from the mining of the uranium to the places where the, the weapons have been tested.

(17:35):

 And I think, and I, and I can't take much credit for this other than the fact that I am a good listener. And I started talking to young people and people of color about, about the threat of nuclear weapons. And this is the framing that made sense to them and giving the space to develop that. I'm really proud of that. For years, the, the framing around nuclear offices, basically, we gotta get rid of these things cuz they're gonna kill us all. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm really happy about that reframing and I think it connects the nuclear weapons abolition movement to the, this the broader discussions around racial justice in this country. I'm also really proud of the young leaders we developed, particularly in our nuclear weapons program. And I'm going to name them. So I, cause I want people listening to this to know about them, starting with Jasmine Owens, who's now the associate director of P SR'S Nuclear Weapons Abolition Program.

(18:28):

 Alan Hester, who works now at the Friends Committee on national legislation, Mary FAEs, who works in organization nuclear Weapons abolition organization, or Disarmed organization, not sure which they call themselves, but anyway, see it's an organization called Global Zero. They do great work. All three of them really got their career started in that work at psr. And I'm really proud of that. And there, and all three of 'em are developing into emerging leaders in that space. I don't wanna, I, we also did a lot of climate work and I wanna neglect that and I'm really proud of the work, the staff at PSR is done there as well, led by Barb Gotley. I think, I think I did a good job there giving her the opportunity to grow that program. And she really did a fabulous job. So those are kind of the things I think about in when I, you know, coming into this position.

Jenny Vickers (19:21):

What are some of the things you learned at P S PSR that you'll implement here at cleanwater to help us achieve our goals?

Jeff Carter (19:28):

Well, that's a again, a little bit of a challenging question cuz I'm still so new here. But my initial thoughts are this, one thing I tried to do at P S R was to bring more accountability to the organization across the board. That <laugh>, that doesn't sound fun. I know that <laugh> it sound a little scary. But it's really not. What I mean by that is, or what I should say about that is that I actually found people are really motivated by knowing what they're supposed to be doing, what they're being held accountable for. And if you accompany that with a message that their contributions are valued, that their judgment is trusted, and if it's clearly aligned with their values and they can see how it contributes to advancing the mission of the organization, you know, you put all that together and accountability actually becomes something that people actually, I think, really appreciate.

(20:20):

 So, you know to the extent that I can bring some of what I, that accountability framework that I set up at P S R to Clean Water, definitely gonna be looking at that. I'm also a big believer in assessment. There's a phrase I used to always say to our board about being ruthlessly honest about the impact of our work. I think that's really important. I, I'm, I'm sure we'll have conversations like that at Clean Water. So what do I mean by that? What I mean is we have to constantly evaluate what we're working on. That what we're working on is actually working and actually making an impact. The thing I find, and I I know it's true here, we are doing so much work. We're doing more work than I, I can, I can't believe how much we're doing at the state level nationally for an organization this size.

(21:09):

We're just doing an amazing amount of work. Much of it is, from what I can see, is really exemplary. The problem is, you know, you can get caught so caught up in doing the work that sometimes it's hard to focus on those things that are having the most impact. So I anticipate I'll be spending a lot of time working with staff on figuring out where, where's the best places for us to be focusing our time. Maybe we can't do as much, but maybe we should be doing more on those things where we can have the most impact. The other thing I learned at PSR is that it's critical to build trust both inside and outside the organization. And to be seen as a really strong and supportive collaborator at p sr. I, I, I think especially with the nuclear weapon work, that was a challenge.

(21:56):

 I, in a weird, in a weird way. I think it had to do with our, the organization's success in the past. I think there was a sense of p sr that because P s R had been such a leader on the nuclear weapons issue 30, 40 years ago, I think it had a tendency to go alone on things and not really emphasize collaboration with other organizations. Seen at it after all, P s PSR was the, the leader on this in the eighties. It was the expert. It had won the in part, you know, the Nobel Peace Prize. I think, I think going into partnerships, a little bit of humility and thinking about how much stronger we can all be working together, that's something that I really emphasize the p sr. And I think we do that well at Clean Water already. But it's certainly something I I'd wanna continue and expand upon.

(22:46):

And I think finally, and maybe most importantly, I spent a lot of my time at PSR working on diversity, equity and inclusion issues both inside the organization and in the fields in which we worked. Again, particularly in the nuclear, nuclear weapons disarming field. Because frankly, that field has had until fairly recently, a fairly dismal record on that. And I expected to devote a lot of attention to organizational culturally water, not just in terms of diversity, but really thinking about how we can support bipo leadership in our field. I, I really, really love that work at P S R and I, I'm really looking forward to doing that here as well.

Jenny Vickers (23:29):

That's incredible. Yeah, we've, we've made a lot of progress and steps in the fight racial justice and I'm, that's an area I'm very excited about here at Clean Motor Direction as well. And, and focusing too, honestly. I I, I appreciate that cuz I I sometimes feel like I do too much too, so yeah. Hone in on what you're, you're successful and making an impact on

Jeff Carter (23:51):

Yeah, I make that, I hope I don't make that sound too easy. It's hard. The the reason it's hard is because we, you, you find this at, at organizations like Clean Water and others there's so much work to do and there's so much expertise and passion for the work here that you spread yourself too thin. And I think it's, it, it, it's important for leaders of organizations to really work with staff and I really mean that work as a partner with staff to figure out and agree on what's the, what are the best places for us to focus because we'll be more impactful instead of spreading ourselves too thin. It's a, it's a process as a dialogue. It's, it's really rewarding when you can figure it out and yeah, I, I'd be, again, that's too early to know, but it's, it would be shocking to me if that isn't something that I think every organization needs to constantly be evaluating that.

Jenny Vickers (24:43):

Yeah, totally agree. So as you know, we just celebrated our 50th anniversary come a long way. We've been sharing a lot of success stories. And you know, I'm sure you're, you're familiar with, you know, the organization over the many years we've been around. But how do you see us evolving over the next few years?

Jeff Carter (25:03):

It's too early in my tenure to be sure to be sure. So I'm gonna answer this question sort of broadly. I, I, I think for sure it's time to look at the future of Clean water, especially our future leadership. Bob's Retirement. To me, signals should signal to us that we need to be looking at that next generation of leaders for this organization. And I, and as I said earlier, I think with an eye, not just a diversity, but can we, can we play a role in really developing bipo leadership within this organization in the field? So that whole question of what is this organization going to look like? Who are our leaders going to be 5, 10, 15 years down the road is really compelling to me. I know there's a lot of leadership here that is not gonna be around in 10 or 15 years. So I'm really excited to figure out how we, how we recruit and develop young diverse leadership here. So that's one thing. And I think the other thing, I touched on this earlier, I, I really hope we can expand our efforts to support environmental justice. And again, I'm sort of thinking of the same question. What is the best way for us to support communities and leaders of environmental justice movements in those communities? So I'm gonna be asking those kinds of questions going forward. I guess that's the best way I can answer your question right now.

Jenny Vickers (26:24):

Yeah, no, that's fantastic. I just, you know, I I feel like it's totally aligned with like the, you know, the current work that we're doing. So I I I love it. I'm excited about it. So this is just an broad kind of environmental clean water question. What are some of the challenges we're facing right now, environmentally speaking and how can cleanwater action members and supporters help solve them?

Jeff Carter (26:53):

<Laugh>, that is it. Boy, no, we should, we should do this. We'll have to do this again in about a year and, and compare my answers. 

Jenny Vickers (27:01):

Cause

Jeff Carter (27:01):

I, cuz I, in some ways the honest answer is I don't know for sure. I can speak again broadly about some of the things that I think the environmental movement as a whole is facing right now. And then maybe a little bit about clean water specifically. We are obvi. I mean, I don't think anyone listening to this is gonna be a surprise when I say we are living in sort of difficult times in terms of our politics right now. Seems like in the last few years, every election is the election of our lifetime, most important election of our lifetime. And I used to kind of make fun of that. Like, how can every, every two years, how can it be the election of our lifetime? And the more I think about that, I think that's actually true. I think each election now, each election cycle is really critical in terms of, of, of ensuring that we continue to make progress on these issues.

(27:54):

 So I think that's a challenge because we're, we're at a point now where, especially if you look at what's happening federally, we've had some not perfect, but we've had some movement, some legislation that is going to provide us with some resources to make, to make some progress on clean water and in the environment and on climate change. We got a lot of work to do to implement that. And that's something that I'm definitely interested in figuring out. How can clean water help to implement those things going forward? And we gotta be quick. You don't know what's gonna happen in two years, in four years. And, and while we're doing that, at the same time, we've gotta protect those investments. So, got an election coming up, certainly in the presidential election coming up, we've got to be, we've gotta make sure that we are educating candidates and supporting candidates that are fully committed to continuing and, and expanding this work.

(28:53):

That's the stuff that I, I, I worry about. And then secondly, I I, my approach when I think about environmental justice, when I think about diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice, I mean, I really enjoy it. I, I I love it. It feels strange to say that because behind that work, I know there's a lot of pain. So when I say enjoy it, I enjoy making it, making progress on it. And, but I do understand that there are a lot of communities in this country that are hurting right now and fearful. And I think that's making our work more difficult. And I, I, I don't, I don't have a really simple answer other than the fact that we need to continue, we need to double down and push harder than ever to fight that injustice. And you know, I don't know what else to say about that.

(29:48):

I, I, I, it's something that really motivates me every day, but I do realize that what's motivating for me can feel like an incredible burden to those that are suffering as a result of injustice. And so that's a challenge that we need to both, we be, we need to understand that and we need to work with those communities thoughtfully. And I guess I see that as a, as a, as another challenge, but one that I think at Clean Water that we can, we have been and we can continue to address.

Jenny Vickers (30:26):

Yeah, and I, we always say here, you know, people power, strength in numbers and yeah, we are a very people driven organization. We welcome everyone here. So you know, if you're hearing about this issue, these issues right now and want to get involved, we, you know, we welcome you. So I just wanna know, we've been talking a lot about some serious issues and yeah. Climate change and, and nuclear issues and it's pretty heavy. I mean, when you think about it, it, some people, most people don't wanna think about it, right? So I just <laugh>

Jeff Carter (30:57):

I know, I know.

Jenny Vickers (30:59):

So, so let's get a little liked, I wanna know a little bit more about you beyond PSR and Clean Owner action. What do you like to do outside of work? What are some of your hobbies?

Jeff Carter (31:08):

I don't know, Jenny, you really think that you are, you think that that listeners of this podcast are are, are gonna be wor like, like I, they're already are, they're already concerned about clean water in the environment now I've given them something new to worry about. <Laugh> <laugh>. Yeah. yeah, well, that's kind of how I feel. Okay. So fun things. What do I like to do outside of work? Great question. Well, I guess the one good way, so I'm speaking to this is actually I'm speaking to you from my apartment here in DC and I'm surrounded by a lot of records and so I'm a big music fan. In fact, I just got, I just got back from New York for a benefit show that the musician Steve Earl puts together every year to support the Creswell School in New York City, which is the school for autistic children.

(32:04):

 And so I try to get out and see, and now that the, you know, COVID had, you know, I couldn't go and see shows for years because of Covid. I'm starting to go back out to see music again. So I'm pretty excited about that. And I do have, I do have a, I have big record collection. I was one of the weird people that held on to vinyl when the cd when CDs came around. I just had, I just didn't trust them. I just felt like, you know, the CDs are, they felt kind of flimsy. I didn't like them. I didn't like, by the way, the for here's a, here's a connect, I can connect this to the work we do. The worst thing about CDs when they first came out, and that it's not as bad now, but, you know, CDs all came in those horrible plastic boxes. What, and they all, and that's like a terrible, they didn't need to be in plastic. And they were, and they were ugly and they were terrible. And thankfully we've got, we, they, we've moved away from that. But yeah, love to collect records, love to go see music, and I'm a big reader. Love to read about history, occasional, novel, things like that.

Jenny Vickers (33:09):

Yeah, I'm, I'm a, the same way, I have so many records that they're, I have 'em in a storage unit as well, so <laugh> Oh wow.

Jeff Carter (33:16):

Yeah. Oh, you might taught me. Yeah, I'm getting it. Yeah. Yeah. It's coming close. Yeah,

Jenny Vickers (33:20):

I, when I was younger, I was a dj, so a vinyl only dj, so that's, wow. That's, yeah. And people keep trying to buy them from me and I'm like, cuz they're back now, right? They're trending now. Records are trending. I know. So yeah, actually a lot of my friends in bands, I'm, I'm a musician now are going back to vinyl and selling vinyl.

Jeff Carter (33:39):

I know

Jenny Vickers (33:39):

It's, yeah. It's like, it's, it's pretty cool.

Jeff Carter (33:42):

Every now and then, I look every now and then I look and see like, cause I know I have some things that are a little unusual or I dunno if they're rare, I don't know. I just look, I'll look up to see and I'll be like, oh wow, that's, that's actually somebody would pay that for this record that I got for five bucks at a used record store in 1987. Great. It may one of my, it may be actually one of my, be one of the best investments I've ever made. Weirdly. Yes.

Jenny Vickers (34:04):

There's like record stores in my record shows in my town now where you could go and yeah. And, and sell and everything like that.

Jeff Carter (34:12):

See, this

Jenny Vickers (34:13):

Is exciting. It's something interesting that I didn't know about you and I always like to just talk a little bit outside of serious issues for a second. <Laugh>, by the way,

Jeff Carter (34:21):

Can I just add, can I just add, I just had a thought, one other thing we going, but right back to the beginning we were talking about, you know, beginning in advocacy and, and thinking about injustice. You know, I don't, I think music had a big, big part in that, now that I think about it. I think, you know, I listened to I, I I think I, I think I listened to a lot of performers who were singing about, I think I learned about a lot of issues from listening to certain kinds of music. I I, it's funny, I I just thought of that now. I've always been sort of attuned <laugh> to, despite my own privilege, I've always been sort of in attuned to injustice. And some of that is some of that I think has come through. You know, there's a, there's a I I if you wanna, if people want to sort of understand my, my outlook on things, there's a kink song from way back in the sixties called Dead End Street, which I remember the first time I heard it I thought, wow, I can't believe there's somebody else thinks the way I do.

(35:18):

Cuz basically this was a song that was, that was recorded back in the middle of the swinging sixties. Everyone's talking love and peace and how wonderful the world's gonna be. And these guys made a song about, well, actually it might be for you, but there's still a lot of people who are being kicked out of their homes and living on the street and not, and unemployed. And it's kind of a real, kind of a real downer, but it, but it was a real truth telling kind of record that somehow in England anyway was a big hit. But if, but when I think about listening to those records, I and realizing that, you know, oh, I'm not the only one who kind of thinks this way, that actually had a big influence as well.

Jenny Vickers (35:55):

Yeah. That, I mean the arts and music and I mean, I just, I just love all of that too as well. I love the kinks as well. So what we're, we're gonna come to a close in a little bit on the podcast, so there's two more things I wanna cover. Sure. <laugh>, so one is, what would you tell people who may be interested in supporting Clean Water Action, why it's important, and then we end with a call to action. So kind of like why support Clean Water Action right now? And then what's your call to action? Like, how can people, maybe they can't financially support but they can do something else. What can people do to protect clean water right now?

Jeff Carter (36:33):

Well, first of all, they should be listening to this podcast on a regular basis. Very, very, that's very important. This is a great, you do a great job. It's a great podcast. It's a great way to learn about our issues. So I encourage people to do that. In terms of why people should be supporting our work. Well, I've been thinking about that a lot. I think I, you know, I mentioned doing advocacy work around adult literacy when I was younger. And I think, I think access to clean drinking water, like literacy is a fundamental, right? It's a fundamental justice issue. The fact that there are people in this country, this is the wealthiest country in the history of the world, the fact that there are people here who don't have access to clean water is completely ridiculous. And it's so solvable. This isn't, this isn't nuclear weapons. This does not involve complicated international geopolitics. Okay, we can do this. So that's, I think that's what comes to mind. This is an absolutely ridiculous problem that for us to have and we can solve it. So that's, I think would, would be my basic answer to your question.

Jenny Vickers (37:40):

Yes, I totally agree. So, so they can become a member, right? They can go to clean water.org and learn about our issues, join our email list and just stand up with us.

Jeff Carter (37:55):

Did I mention listening to your podcast? I think that's very

Jenny Vickers (37:57):

Oh, you did. You did. That was the first thing you said. Listen to podcasts. Thank you. Yes. So

Jeff Carter (38:02):

Yeah, they're, they're really good. Don't, don't, if you're listening to this for the first time, don't judge it by this interview. <Laugh>, there, there are actually really smart people who come on this podcast and you do a great job interviewing them. So really, I would encourage people to do, no, all those things are, of course, I important, I, I was getting more to the why than the what, but yes, they're terrifically important. Yeah.

Jenny Vickers (38:23):

Yeah. I just wanted to leave something with, for folks to do. Well, you did listen to the podcast, but also go to our website and join our email list and donate if you can and become a member, and then we'll keep you up to date and informed on all the work that we're doing. So thank you so much. Well, lemme

Jeff Carter (38:38):

Actually, before we, actually, before we close, just a couple specific things right, that are going on right now that I think are and will be in the, for, for the safe foreseeable future that I can point people to. The first one is curbing what is, and I learned this even before I came to Clean Water when I was working at P S R, and that's curbing the, the number one direct source of toxic water pollution in the us, which is power plants that burn dirty coal to generally electricity. Again, a lot of people don't realize that, but it is in fact the number one source of toxic water pollution. And that's something we're working on. And the second big one is reducing the amount of pfa s forever chemicals that are allowed in people's tap water. I'm not gonna get into the details of either one of these issues right now, but these are two things that I would really encourage people to learn more about.

(39:36):

We just had a again, I think it was my first or second week here, <laugh> had a huge pfa s victory in Minnesota with a passing of what well, many, many people are calling it Amira's Law. This is a young woman who was, Amira was a young woman who was an advocate for those suffering with illnesses brought on by PFAS chemicals and the drinking water. And sadly she passed away shortly before that legislation was approved by the Minnesota legislature. I would encourage people to go to a website and learn more about her fight. It's, it's very sad that she's no longer with us, but we need to continue her fight, not just in Minnesota, but we need to take it to every other state here in the United States.

Jenny Vickers (40:25):

Yes. I think that's perfect to end on. There was a future podcast planned on this issue actually exactly what you're talking about. So stay tune for that.

Jeff Carter (40:35):

Great.

Jenny Vickers (40:36):

Yeah. Thank you for being here. It was nice chatting with you. I'm incredibly grateful about this podcast. I look forward to what's ahead and working with you. Thanks to all of our listeners for joining us. To learn more about cleanwater action visit cleanwater.org. If you'd like to support our work, visit our website and click on donate Your support helps to keep our engines running and allows us to continue the great work that we do, fighting for healthier communities, clean water, and a more just world. For all, be sure to subscribe to Promoter Actions podcast. We all live downstream available on all of your favorite streaming apps. Spotify, iTunes, Google Play. Bye everyone.

Jeff Carter (41:20):

Hi everyone. Thanks Jenny. Thank

Jenny Vickers (41:22):

You.