From South African Stages To LA Grit: A Musician’s Leap And A Pilot’s Calling

Bright lights can hide hard truths. We sit down with Mark Van Heerden, a South African guitarist who left home with his band after winning LA awards and chasing a label-fueled dream, only to land in a cramped Beverly Hills apartment, hustling tickets on Sunset and selling CDs by hand. The myth of Hollywood met the math of survival, and what followed is a rare, unfiltered look at how ambition, culture shock, and timing can collide for expats and artists alike.

Mark walks us through the grind behind the glamour: recording with a respected Manhattan Beach producer, learning the limits of indie distribution before streaming took off, and realizing that the “right” city isn’t always the right launchpad. He shares the lessons he’d apply today—why the Midwest might have been smarter for rock, how local scenes can nourish momentum, and how perception from afar often misses the small rooms and big disappointments. When the band splintered, each member reinvented: animation, touring production, academia, and a return to South Africa. Mark’s reinvention took a stunning turn.

A volunteer project filming a helicopter ride for a documentary opened a door to aviation. After scrubbing hangar floors and trading work for flight hours, Mark earned his wings and now manages a San Diego operation with five helicopters, serving the power grid and fighting wildfires. It’s a story about purpose over applause, competence over clout, and the radical hope of a second calling. We also talk about the pull of South Africa—family, food, landscapes—and the complex truth of home when your heart lives in two places.

If you’re drawn to stories of reinvention, expat life, and creative grit, this one’s for you. Listen, subscribe, and share with someone who’s weighing a big leap. And if this episode moved you, leave a review—your words help others find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And Show Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for expert South Africans and anyone interested in the experiences of those who have made the move overseas. Each episode we'll hear from South Africans who have left the country to pursue new opportunities, be with loved ones or simply follow their dreams. We'll explore the challenges and triumphs of life as an expert and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad. I'm your host, Warren Burley, an expat South African who, like many, followed the dream of working overseas. Whether you're an expert yourself or just curious about the expert experience, join us as we delve into the motivations, struggles, and joys of being a South African living overseas.

Meet Mark And Band Origins

SPEAKER_01 0:41

What better way to start the podcast than with a legend? Mark Vaniedon. Mark, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Thanks so much for having me, man. It's good to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

You know, I I usually start off the podcast by saying, tell us a little bit about yourself, but I can tell you there's a lot of people that know who you are. Okay. So we get we're gonna just kind of have a chat about you know where you came from, and um, but I want to start off the band.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

So just tell everyone what band you were from and how it started.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Well, I was in the band Wicked for in in South Africa, and uh we ended up moving to the States in 2007.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Okay, before we go to the States, let's okay, let's go back a little bit and because you're being very humble about this. Okay, it's not just any band. Okay, I mean you guys open for Evanescence, correct?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yeah, there were we had a we had a couple a couple good shows in in South Africa and then and then I traveled to London and did a couple shows there, so and you won some award. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Tell us a little bit about your awards.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Uh we won a couple awards in LA. So um what was I think we had like was that the LA Music Awards? And I think we had the best rock album of the year or something. I think it was some kind of indie platform or something. But that was our those are basically the awards we got. That was our our ticket to get into the States.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Then you guys decided to move to LA. That was 2007. What brought that up?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah, so we we had this dream, you know, there was nothing

Awards, Visas And The LA Move

SPEAKER_00 2:15

else that the band was gonna be at, and we were just gonna there was no plan B ever. We were just wanted to make uh we wanted to be famous, playing on big stages, playing with all the other bands that we loved. So I guess the goal was come to America because we were listening to a lot of American rock and a lot of American metal, and it seemed like this is where we needed to be. Had I known then, I think what I've learned since then and how special South Africa is, and uh coming over to America, it's completely completely different to what I was expected. I I don't think I was actually ever ready to come over. Yeah. But uh, we got this opportunity after getting these two wards in LA and then um signed to an indie label actually called called Mozambique Records, and then uh they're in South Africa. No, in they're they're in Laguna actually. Oh, okay. Yeah, so they have a record label and then they have this big kind of club slash bar in Laguna Beach and all that. And long story short, we got we got we signed to this label and had this opportunity to come over to LA. So of course, talking to my other band members out of vocalists and another guitar player knew a lot more about it because the guitarist was originally from Canada.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

But they were like, man, we've got this opportunity to go to Los Angeles, and this is like Hollywood and all of the above. So Bright Lights Boulevard, you know? So all of us, of course, at that time, just like 25, just rearing and ready to go, we're like, cool, just to drop everything we've got, sell everything we've got, and off we moved to to Southern California, right, right to the heart of LA, without really thinking it through. You know, South Africans have this South Africans are just travelers in general and tend to tend to move all over the place anyway. And so when we when we got this opportunity, we went we were like, well, we've got to we've got to take it and we've got to do it. And the and I think three of the other band members were like, this is absolutely what we're doing. I was just kind of in my own world and not really registering what had actually happened. But you know, the grass is always greener on the other side, and you think of you think of LA, you think of palm trees and beaches, and then all these bands that we loved and listened to come kind of come and from from the California area and all of that. So literally got rid of everything a suitcase and guitars, and then jumped on a plane and came over.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

What was it like?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Didn't headlights when you arrived or well the first thing was like being on the plane coming over that uh it we were all sit seated next to each other in the plane, and and back then they were serving a lot more more alcohol, so it looked like a bar in front of

First Days In LA And Reality Check

SPEAKER_00 4:55

the band because all of us were just lined up and ready to go to the street. I don't think we had showered for about a week because we'd been touring and playing around South Africa and just hadn't like hadn't got around to it. My my first memory was we we arrived in July 4th, 2007.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Okay. Big day.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

So yeah, on Independence Day, I think we arrived in Atlanta and then kind of got to got to LA on the cusp of the fifth. And I just remember flying into LAX and seeing the Hollywood sign, you know, out to my right on the hills there and thinking like no ways, you know, we we're in LA. But um we got here, we had a place lined up to stay with uh some girl that our vocalist had met. She had it, she had a a one-bedroom apartment in Beverly Hills. Okay, so five of us now were gonna crash on this in this one-bedroom place, like on the floor and around our on our couches and all of the above. And what it was is that our clothes didn't arrive for a week. That's what it was. Okay. I was thinking that we hadn't showered for a week, but I think it was that that came later. But um, yeah, so anyway, we crashed on her floor and we're just planted right in the middle of Beverly Hills. Like, here we were, you know. So we walked up to Sunset Boulevard and kind of looked at all these clubs and just had these dreams of like, wow, you know, we're gonna now's our chance to record this album and kind of so what what was promised to you with with this uh Mozambique records? Basically, that they could get us into the country, we sign these this uh this deal with them, we get our performance visas. So it allows us these work visas to get in here and it allows us the opportunity to make money from music and and all of the above. So it was our it was our ticket into America. And um, with a lot of these indie labels or whatever, they're not necessarily funding you know a whole lot. So yeah. So luckily, our singer had been doing a lot of work in South Africa. He also worked in a sound studio like yourself and Louis, and had done really well for himself, and he was actually fronting a lot of the the money for the band to come over. So he was throwing down, got us in here. Because we I mean, we might have seemed to have been somewhat successful in South Africa, but we certainly weren't making a whole lot of money from it. To be honest, I don't think any of us really had any business sense. And if we were making any money, I don't know where it was going through. Two musicians, right? Yeah, right.

Recording, Gigs And Scraping By

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Now crashing on the on someone's floor in LA.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

But it was a pretty, pretty harsh reality when we got here. So there were there were a couple of really cool things. Like we we got to record an album in Manhattan Beach with a pretty well-known producer. It produced like several well-known bands, so we're really excited about that. That was lined up, and we'd kind of worked that out through I don't know, communicating with and through the label and had to have it all lined up, all that stuff prior prior to coming in. So uh we got to go to Manhattan Beach and record this album, and we're back and forth from then, and then uh kind of set ourselves up with a rehearsal studio in in uh downtown LA.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, I just started playing shows, walking the streets, trying to sell tickets and and playing at the whiskey, whiskey a gogo and a few of these other clubs, and trying to meet people and just network is really what it was. But it was rough. I remember, you know, I remember eating dry two-minute noodles, and there were there were a couple of points where we didn't even have we weren't even able to cook our food, let alone uh you know, and buying the cheap cheap shelf stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, so I mean with the record and stuff like that, how many sales you didn't get like big sales or you didn't promote on radio stations and not really over here, no, we would because it was it it was all just indie label stuff.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

It wasn't a major that was gonna go and and put us out anywhere. So really all our distribution here came from boot sales. Yeah, exactly, right? Yeah, you know, and then trying to play shows and sell at shows and then and then uh trying to go you know promote back in South Africa and see if we could do any sales in South Africa, yeah. Um unfortunately, right then at that cusp, and that the whole kind of social media thing hadn't really blown up then. We were still really working MySpace a lot, but there wasn't really like the whole online sale thing, much of that.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

How did the people back home take to that you're in LA now and stuff like that? I mean, they did not help sales in South Africa.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

The people that supported us and the and the fan base that we had that were really, really supportive because a lot of those that fan base also listened to similar kind of music. And you know, everyone, it it's

Support Back Home And Culture Shock

SPEAKER_00 9:25

well, I say everyone, at least within my circles, you know, kind of had this has this picture of Southern California and Hollywood and and going overseas and going to a first world place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a lot of the the people there were kind of you know really excited for us, but saying, you know, we're really gonna miss you, but we're excited. Um when I think back to to how our families probably felt about it and parents, etc., you know, we're just like up and go. But in hindsight, yeah. Yeah, mom and dad and and family are really supportive you, and they're like, you know, you need to go and live your dreams and you know this is your dream, but man, that only gets harder over the years, that's for sure.

What Went Wrong And Lessons

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Firstly, what what went wrong and what would you have done different?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I don't know if going to moving to LA was necessarily the right decision. I think if we were to come to the States, I think maybe the Midwest would have been a better start point.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

There's a lot of like a lot of rock up there, and there's a lot of local support and that type of thing up in the Midwest. So I think maybe that could have been a good start. You know, coming to right to the heart of LA, it's very cutthroat here, as as you know, with in the acting industry and the music industry, it's well the problem is on TV, all we see is LA.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah, exactly. Everything's big in Hollywood, you know, all the studios and everything, bright lights.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

So even there were bands. There were there was one band that that we were listening to a lot that that uh we absolutely loved, and we thought they were this huge band over in the States, you know. And we got here and we ended up becoming friends for that friends with them, and they also playing these tiny little club shows when they're playing in in LA and around so called bigger shows when they kind of went out east, but yeah, they ended up opening for us, which I thought was it was just so bizarre, it didn't make sense, but we were kind of the international band at that time because we'd come from South Africa. But there were a bunch of bands that we followed that when we got over here just saw how jaded they actually were. Yeah, and these were bands that had been previously signed to major labels and and all of the above, and it had then got dropped, or just not playing big shows, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

But that that that's quite interesting because I mean you you look at someone like the Antwerp, yeah, who are bigger over here than in South Africa. Oh yeah, for sure. They're massive over here. Yeah, so how does that culture, how does it become that culture? Like, I mean, there's bands that we followed in South Africa and even actors and whatever that we thought were massive, and then like you say, you come over here and they're like not nobody's but they're playing these little clubs.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Just some bands that crack it, you know, and there's some bands that don't. And I think like they, you know, Wadi, I mean, he wasn't what Max Normal prior and all that. What they were really good too. He's he's just always had that that X factor, yeah, like that thing. So yeah, I'm I'm really not so surprised how at how well they've done. And he's got that, they've kind of got that shock factor to them as well, you know, which people have just completely I think they played Coachella, and yeah, but I don't know, I don't I don't really know what the key is or what the what the answer to it is, but there's definitely definitely something to be said about being different or unique. So where where's the band now? All the guys have gone like completely different directions. So it I think the band broke up a couple years later.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Okay. And everyone stayed in in the in the US?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

No, we all went different directions. It all the guys have done really well for themselves. So I think uh that our vocalist is still living local. He's still in Southern California. I think he's doing a lot of kind of 3D animation stuff for for movies and things like that. So he's I think he's got married and got children now. Uh the guitar player,

Band Breakup And Where They Landed

SPEAKER_00 13:08

he's in Canada, Toronto, Canada, but he's working for a major sound company and and uh running big productions for corn and deftones and a bunch of bands like that. So he's doing putting big tour rigs together, things like that.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Uh our bass player is in he's also in the States, actually, in the Bay Area at the moment. Okay. And he's a professor. Wow. And uh his wife is out here too, and she's I think she's just got a bursary to Yale and is going to be doing her what is it, her PhD at Yale. And the only one of us that ended up actually going back to South Africa was our drummer. So he's back there. I think he's still playing shows in another band back there, and he kind of runs for Nike, who has some kind of some kind of thing and seems completely happy back there.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

So everyone's totally different.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Yeah, but when we broke up, we kind of just it we went from spending every day together to just it was just it didn't end well, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Okay, so you guys don't talk anymore?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Like, I mean, you get together and they're no, I I think I kind of I'm probably the only one that still communicates with each one of them. Some of the guys communicate with each other, but it just didn't end well based on like financial reasons and yeah, a whole bunch of other things. So every guy just kind of went his own direction. And if there was ever any talk of ever doing a reunion, it wouldn't happen, unfortunately. Which is yeah, which is quite sad. It would be cool, you know, it would be cool to get together again one day and play. And maybe a couple of us will group up and do something. We've kind of spoken about it here and there, but I mean I've talked to our singer a couple of times, and one of these days maybe we'll write a song and put something together just for fun. Yeah, that would be cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah, like a get together. Okay, so we've spoken about everyone else, but now this is uh let's talk about you and what you're doing now because I mean, after speaking to you, the the job that you're doing now to

From Music To Helicopters

SPEAKER_01 15:00

me is even cooler. Okay, so tell tell everyone what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah, and I feel feel very lucky, and you know, it's been a bit of luck and a bit of uh all of the above to be able to get to do this, but uh flying flying helicopters now, uh working in the utility world and and fighting fires.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Wow, that's yeah, that's that's that's big. Um when you say utilities, that's like putting up telephone poles and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yeah, it's all in the power power environment. So setting power line poles and and it's anything to do with kind of construction and repair of any anything of the power grid, basically. So we'll set poles and string wire and fly alignment up to the towers and all sorts of things like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So building Lego, yeah. You're not just flying, you're running a whole group, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah, yeah. I'm managing an operation down in San Diego, which is a kind of a collaboration of um utility pilots and fire pilots. So we have uh five machines down there that we're running full-time.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

That's at one portion of the company. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Okay, so now how did you get into that?

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Long story short, it one of these contacts that I met then introduced me to this lady who had adopted all these kids. She had adopted 50, 50 kids. And you know, with all these crazy different like problems and diseases, etc. etc. And she had kind of taken these kids under her wing. And there was this opportunity for me to go and teach them how to play music. I said to my buddy, I was like, All right, cool, you know, I can if it's something I can do, we can go and we can go and check this out. And ended up building a very strong relationship with her and with a lot of her kids and when working with her kids and formed a little band out of there. Okay, you know, with a few of these kids, and wrote a song for them and and kind of uh they would play their part and recorded it and recorded a little music video and all of the above. And then I just started making music videos with them and and doing songs, and she was she really kind of loved that thing. It turned into her wanting me to create a documentary for their for their family. So I started uh working on a documentary, got a camera, and then just everywhere I went with the kids and with the boys and playing music and and all the other kids started

Building A Flying Career

SPEAKER_00 17:15

filming their stories and kind of putting this documentary together. While that was happening, one of the kids' biological parents had paid for a helicopter ride to at this company to go and uh you know to go and fly along. And then she wanted me to go along and and film it, yeah. So it could be part of this documentary.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

And uh yeah, we went out to this this uh this helicopter company, and I'd I'd never been in a helicopter before and I'd only been in an airplane a handful of times. Okay. And uh got into this got in this helicopter and you know, was filming this little boy enjoying his helicopter ride with you know, with us and flying around LA in the Hollywood sign and kind of cycling back to that. And I ended up making best buddies with uh with a pilot that that I flew with, and him and I started chatting and you know, going out to a couple of pubs and bars together, and he was like he asked me about flying, and I was like, how do I do this? Like, what I do to get into this, I need to do this. My I have a kind of a background in my family. My my grandfather was chief pilot of South African Airways. Okay. I had a pretty pretty well-renowned pilot, and then is it my cousins are both pilots and and whatnot. Yeah, basically he got into that and and um he was like, we just start, we just go and fly, we just start. And I was like, Well, what about the expense and and all of the above? And uh the the lady that I'd been working for agreed to start help paying for my flying lessons if I put this this documentary together for her. You know, if we get this this documentary, and then uh that along with getting some some kind of discounts from the company from working for them, I started as ground crew washing the helicopters, washing the hangar floors, and painting the hangers, etc. You know. Yeah. So that we can work ethic. Yeah, just just getting after it, you know. And then flying along and picking up any flight time that I could on any of these any of these jobs that they were doing. And with a combination of those things, just

Home, Family And Identity

SPEAKER_00 19:20

it just really got into the flying. I started building hours and was able to eventually get my ticket, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

How long have you been doing this though?

SPEAKER_00 19:27

I've actually been with this company for over 14 years now.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah, that's the same company.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

I didn't realize, yeah, I mean 2007. You you've been here a long time.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Yeah, 18 years. Yeah. Just over 18 years now, yeah. So okay. Uh 14 of those now have been been flying.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

And uh they've just become like my family. You know, it's a it it was something for me to attach onto after you kind of get that separation anxiety, whatever it might be, leaving South Africa, but just kind of attached to this this company and went all out. So I've now uh now at a place where I'm in San Diego managing operation down there with flying a bunch of cool helicopters.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

And um is there anything you miss about South Africa? Absolutely, you know I because you go back, you go back once a year, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah, I go back every year. And if I can, I'll go back, you know, I'll go back twice a year if I can. I think the the biggest thing for me is family.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

You know, so you know they say it takes five years to to kind of to adapt and to immigrate, but I've just found over the years it just gets harder and harder and harder. It just doesn't get any easier with with family because everyone's getting older, you know. Yeah, my folks are still back in South Africa, but and and obviously my friend base, but my brothers in Dubai, my sisters live in Australia, we're pretty, pretty scattered.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

That would be the biggest thing. But of course, you know, just all the basics that we all that we all miss, the you know, the culture, the food, yeah, just just a good being able to stop at the BP and get some some good bulletong and a pie. Yeah, like this. Yeah, and yeah, I mean, just you know, that I always tell people what what a melting pot South Africa is, and just how you know when you when you take Cape Town, for instance, and how the Indian and the Atlantic Ocean meet, and it's just a melting pot for for ocean life, and then you got the wine country and the animals and yeah, just the variation between the east coast and the west coast and the Drakensburg, and it's just an incredibly beautiful country. So I'm I'm open, you know, to go back at any point. I'm I'm gonna try and stay as as much of a free spirit as possible.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

I was gonna say that you see yourself going back there, like moving back permanently potentially, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

I'm not I'm not I always want to try and stay as open as possible. I think our uh both our little boys are gonna have well, we've we've got a month old right now, yeah, but the application. Already gone in for a South African passport. It's just yeah. So both of them have their South African passports. I I definitely want them to go back one day and and see South Africa and appreciate it for what it is, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

So are you you're an American citizen? Yeah, I am okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

But I've uh I've said to my my my wife, I think that you know, I think a little boy needs to go back and be a game ranger, you know, in Felazi Game Reserve.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to get uh trying to get a trip back because we actually haven't been back in in the 11 years. Yeah, you were saying that's you know, um I mean obviously now you've done it. Well times were tough. I'll I'll be honest, like the first five, six years were were hard. Uh we didn't have the money to go back. Yeah. Um, like I was telling you before, we we were in a situation where we couldn't go back. Like we at one point we were going, okay, was this a mistake? Yeah, let's go back. And then we look at the bank account, like no, we're gonna have to make this work, we can't go back, you know. Um with the dollar exchange and stuff like that, it's not like we could, hey mom, like send me some money, yeah. I want to come back home, you know. Um, but I think w one of the the when we came over, I think we'd we we decided we're not looking back and we wanted to give ourselves time as well. But I think it's time for a visit, you know, to go back. And I'd like to take my son over there, he's 17 now. Absolutely, yeah. Um he's doesn't remember being there, he was too small. But um yeah, I'd love to shame the place, you know, shame where we where we were brought up.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

And if I don't go back every year, I'd start getting really antsy and I'd I have to recharge. I need to go back and clear my mind and kind of yeah. I have to go back and it's just really to see my my parents, you know, and and just catch up with my mates, and it's like yeah, get back to to to base level again and it just come back with some yes, you know, and then I'm ready to go.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

So I get back here. Where do you feel is home?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

South Africa. You know, I don't I don't yeah, it's tricky. I I refer to South Africa as home. That's that's that's what's referred to as home. I do have an American wife and now two little kids that are gonna grow up here, and I'm very, very thankful to be here and grateful. And you know, America really has offered a lot. So I really appreciate and I'm very thankful of the people that have helped me through my way. Um they're good people here, you know. People want to help.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

People people want to talk, want to help you, and I guess that this is home too, you know. So it's I I don't want to say bad things about about the states either. And it's it's when you get here, yeah. If if you decide to live here, you need to embrace it and you need to appreciate it for what it is. But it is kind of that that saying the you know, it's the land of the free, but you'll pay for it for the rest of your life, you know. So but um yeah, I think home is where you where you've spent longer. I've I've still spent more time in South Africa than I have. Yeah, I was there for 26 years, yeah, in South Africa. So it's still like my my home kind of home base.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we chose the furthest place on the planet from from Africa. Yeah, it's like on the other side of the world, but but yeah, man.

Closing And Listener Community

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Um I'm you know, this has been a long podcast, and and I mean we've got so much to talk about, and it's been absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah, thank you so much for having me, man.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah, thanks, thanks for traveling all the way up here and uh appreciate it. Appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much. Thanks, man. Cheers, thank you. If you're eager to explore more stories of South Africans Abroad, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you never miss a moment. For exclusive updates, discussions, and a chance to connect with fellow listeners. Be sure to join our vibrant community on Facebook. Just search for South Africans Abroad Podcast and become part of the conversation. There you'll find additional content, behind the scenes insights, and an easy way to access all your favorite episodes. And to all our listeners, check it Tuesday. And if you love what we're doing here and want to support our show, head over to saabroadpodcast.com. That's saabroadpodcast.com and become a sponsor so we can keep sharing these amazing stories.