The Independent Adjuster Podcast (IA Path)

Collision Estimator Salary and Pay Structure

• Chris Stanley • Season 8 • Episode 311

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Embark on a journey through the financial intricacies of body shop estimating with the guidance of industry sage, Mark Passmore. Unlock the secrets to boosting your earning potential in this competitive field as Mark, my father-in-law and mentor, lays bare the pathway to climbing from starter salaries in the $40,000 range to commanding figures that can exceed $70,000 with time and finesse. This episode is a treasure trove of insights on how embodying confidence and adaptability can make or break your job prospects and salary negotiations.

Venture further into the realm of compensation with a deep dive into the salary structures that govern the lives of body shop estimators. From understanding the baseline of entry-level wages to the allure of the six-figure echelons, we explore the myriad pay models that seasoned professionals navigate. Discover how salary plus commission, hourly wages, and straight salary can shape your career trajectory, and why strong negotiation skills are your ticket to leaving a lasting impression on future employers. Mark and I scrutinize these models alongside the per-piece payment method, delivering a comprehensive portrait of the remuneration landscape.

The final chapter of our discussion turns the spotlight on career transitions within the auto repair industry, particularly for those shifting from independent adjuster or appraiser roles to becoming body shop estimators. We outline the support systems and training resources available for those ready to pivot their career path. With Mark Passmore's expert commentary, we traverse the nuances of job placement, upskilling, and aligning career moves with your professional goals. Whether you're just turning the ignition or shifting gears in your auto estimating career, this episode is your roadmap to success.

Speaker 1:

All right, guys, I'm back with Mark Passmore. Mark Passmore is my father-in-law and mentor, longtime body shop technician, painter estimator, body shop owner manager and for the past 15 years turned IA. And so I brought him back on today because we talked a little bit last episode about kind of why being a body shop estimator might be a good idea for you. But a lot of people are going to have the question that I'm about to ask Mark, which is what does a body shop estimator actually get paid? What kind of income can someone expect if they're coming in as a body shop estimator? So, mark, in general, big picture, I mean I know these numbers are all over the place in every career. You can make 20 as an IA or you can make 200,000, depending who you are and how well you do. But for a body shop estimator, on average, what are you kind of expecting? Someone who's a little seasoned, been in it a few years at a shop? What are they to be making?

Speaker 2:

Once you're in it a couple of years, you could make 70, probably 65, 70 easy enough Without a problem if you're in the right shop, which naturally, like you said, it's all the shop and the shop size and the shop structure and all that. But yeah, 70 is not unheard of in two years and that's consistent with benefits.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that was with benefits. Okay, that was my next question. So that includes benefits as well. And when I'm looking on Google right now getting ready for the show, what I'm showing is just that it's showing an average salary for someone at least in Florida is about $70,000 for a body shop estimator, based on the jobs that are posted and the responses people have to what they actually get paid. So but starting out it's saying it's a little bit different story. So if someone's brand new, they come in or they take I-PAT training, they take I-CAR, whatever the case is, they get the position as a body shop estimator, but they're brand spanking new. What is someone going to make as an entry level estimator?

Speaker 2:

Well, you mean it could be lower, it could be 40, 45,000. But a lot of that has to do with when you're doing that interview. You mean your confidence, what you display to them, that you know your confidence, what you display to them, that you know that's a negotiated number. So I mean it's totally up to you and how you present yourself or where you're going to start in that scale. So I mean it's just confidence and learning as much as you can and applying it in your interview.

Speaker 1:

And what you're saying by that is like applying your knowledge of auto damage, of estimating of you know if you come in there saying I've never really written an estimate before, but I know how to do it. That's not going to do as well. If you're like, no, I absolutely can write you an estimate, and I'm still going to be willing to learn new things because I've never worked at a shop before. But yeah, you give me a car, I'll write you an estimate. Yes that would get you way farther.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that would be 100% what they would be looking for, as, I mean, I've hired many estimators and that would be the response that I would be looking for from an interview, for sure that I was bringing somebody in that had never worked in a shop. That is spot on.

Speaker 1:

When John Bachman and I did the interviews with a dozen hiring managers and recruiters of major insurance carriers, I mean one of the biggest things they said about salary and about whether they hired somebody or not was just the confidence and that came across because they felt like anything could be taught. But if somebody doesn't have the right presence or the presence of mind there, it's way harder. It's the intangible. The tangibles are easy enough to say you know what, this is how you, you know, submit this through ccc1. Okay, this is how we get it tore down beforehand. If you need it tore down, this is the process. But the wherewithal and confidence to say no, I can write an estimate and not being timid about it, you know, was the same thing on the the carrier side. Like we want people who feel like they can perform and are willing to learn.

Speaker 2:

That was like the two big things they wanted yep, and it's such a mean because everybody has their own processes. Um, and you mean, just like what we teach IAPath, we teach a foundation and you know you've got to remember that you've got that foundation. When you go to work someplace else or when you interview for that job, you've got to be willing to bend and adapt to their guidelines and their rules and how it's done there. So you can't be rigid. You've got to be a sponge and go ahead and open up to that and be open to what they want you to do. Open up to that and be open to what they want you to do. But yes, that initial interview and showing that confidence and saying, yes, I can write you an estimate, and then you go ahead and lead into that. You know I will need to. I mean I haven't worked in a shop but you know I've wrote a bunch of estimates, I can write an estimate and I mean I just willing to learn your practices and how you do things, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Now I assume, as anybody hiring somebody, one of the things they're looking for basing salary on is is this person going to bail on me in two months, or are they going to be here for a while? You know, can I keep them interested in this job with the salary that I can maintain? So is that something that, when you are hiring, you look for like? Is this guy just looking for a, you know, a two month job? Is that something that enters into the hiring manager's mind?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and a lot of that is responses that you mean to questions that they ask you and you mean they, they most times they won't ask that direct question but they're just going to lead into that and your responses and your reactions is going to tell him that answer or her that answer. So I mean you do have to be careful with that and I mean you got to know in your own head going into it that it's not a pit stop. And if you don't know in your own head, they're going to see right through that, because these people that you're interviewing with have interviewed a lot of people and they're going to be able to see that in not just your voice but in your body language. So be confident that that's where you want to be and that's what you want to do before you go into the interview.

Speaker 1:

You know it's not a job. Even though it is a job, it's a career path. Being an estimator, being an auto damage appraiser as an independent, being a catastrophic adjuster, independent catastrophic adjuster those are career paths and, yes, I have shifted in my career. You have shifted in your career from being a daily auto damage appraiser being a catastrophic, independent adjuster. But that was years at a time. It was not like two, three months, six months or even a year, it was like years at a time and the skills stack on top of each other.

Speaker 1:

So I feel like if someone's looking to become a body shop estimator, you gotta be willing in any career path to at least give it three years. Because if you're not willing to give something three years, you're not gonna really know if you're good at it or even if you really enjoy it. Because I know for me, every time I've started a business or done a career, it wasn't until about three years that I felt like, oh, I really know how to write hail. Now, finally, three years later, I feel confident in what I'm doing and I know what I like and I don't like about it. You know it takes that long to really get your head wrapped around the industry that you're in, so I feel like someone needs to give about that that long. Would you say that's true about shops, because I've never worked at a shop?

Speaker 2:

Yes, and it's. I mean the thing is it's going to take that long but you're going to know out of the gate that you mean how much you love it. And it's like I said, it's a different feeling about a shop and it's just I think that, um, you mean coming from IA path, you're going to know the freedom of an independent adjuster possibly and then being at the shop, but the security of that shop is what's going to keep you there and knowing that that's there. And I mean later in your life, three years, four years down the road, who knows, I mean things might change and you might switch back over to being an independent. But I mean you just got to make sure that, going into it that this is what you want to do, and make sure that you're going to stick with that for a time frame to to get through it and really learn it and get it down.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about this. We said you know you're going to start at 45 to 55. Basically is entry level, if you're brand new and depending on how your conferences, is the scale of where you might fall in negotiation. And you know 70 is the average. What is kind of the max that you've seen for, like you know, the top rate estimators, what are they able to get up to?

Speaker 2:

You can make $125,000, six figures. You have the wide shop estimator If you get in the right shop. Again, I mean it's that in doing that you are going to have a lot on your plate. You mean if you're making six figures you are going to have a lot on your plate. You mean if you're making six figures you are going to have a lot on your plate. And most of those shops in those salary ranges you are salary plus commission.

Speaker 2:

So what that means and how that structure works is you will get, say, a base salary of $60,000, $50,000, and then you will be in charge of that vehicle through the shop. So you'll take that vehicle in from the customer, check it in, you will assign that vehicle to a body man and then that body man will tear that vehicle down and start repairing it. You're in charge of contact and stay in contact with that vehicle owner. You're in charge of making sure there's no supplements and you're it's pretty much you're an estimator and your production manager and you're following it to the shop and giving that customer updates you whether how they want them, if it's either through the internet or over the phone or whatever, and then you follow it all the way through detail and you deliver that vehicle back to that customer and then you make a percentage off of that car, of whatever it is gross sales or whatever. But yes, that would be the commission side of it so like my independent brain is going okay.

Speaker 1:

So I'm making a salary, but there is some levers. If the shop does a salary plus commission not all shops do, we'll talk about that here in a second but there are some levers I control. I can dictate whether I make more or less, because that's a lot of the reasons why I find people come to Bing and I yeah, they want freedom, they want, you know, flexibility and schedule. But a lot of people just say I want to get rid of the cap, of where I'm at and like I don't want to be locked into a salary. I want to feel like if I perform, good, I can make more money.

Speaker 2:

You're saying it's that way at a shop If you're at a salary plus commission position, yes, it is, yep, and it I mean it's like I said it could be commissioned off that vehicle. It could be commissioned off of the gross sales or net sale that the shop did for the month. But yes, there's no. I mean if you're in a salary commission, there's not a cap there. It's, I mean whatever, how much you're willing to put in it or how well the shop does. Or you mean, if your body manager painter's out sick or whatever, I mean that will affect you a little. But I mean, yes, there's a lot of earning potential as a body shop estimator and you're not, you're not, you're not stuck at a I mean a $70,000 job.

Speaker 1:

And you're not stuck at a $70,000 job Gotcha, so there is upward potential. Now I know that not all shops do salary plus commission. There are a few different structures that I have seen as I'm looking through jobs and positions that are available. What have you seen?

Speaker 2:

What are the different common structures of ways that estimators are paid? Well, you can I mean tried and true, it could be by the hour or could be just a straight salary. So you mean it's. It's usually just those three options, usually that encountered. You mean just just hourly or just straight salary or salary plus commission and you mean it naturally. All that is negotiable. Um go into it and being confident, confident enough in an interview and negotiating that salary or that pay structure will also show the interviewer a lot as well. I mean it shows confidence.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. Okay, so that's how a blog shop estimator is paid. We got salary, we got hourly and then you got salary plus commission. So those are the three main ways we're paid A little bit different than what we get as IAs, where it's per piece. But I would imagine, just thinking through this, that same with being an IA. If you are only working for an IA firm that doesn't have claims, you're not going to make as much because they don't have the volume to give you. You can't make your commission or your split in the fee schedule. So at a shop, if you're at an underperforming shop, then you're kind of held down by that fact and you don't have a lot of control over how much work comes in. Do you as an estimator?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, not really. I mean you've got some control as far as, because at that point a lot of times you will write. I mean it depends on the size of the shop. You might write all the estimates if you're the only estimator or if you're at a larger shop you might have to write, say, just a few insurance companies that their direct repairs. But just because that car shows up at that shop doesn't mean that they're going to get it repaired there. So you're in charge of selling the shop to that customer to set that appointment. So, yes, you are in control and you can affect the bottom line of what that shop takes in the front door because you are a salesman at the very beginning when you're writing that initial drive-in estimate.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so, whereas an ia is doing daily claims, they're going to write the estimate, send it off, kind of whatever is one way that we kind of work. Another is you know, you go on a cat line for a pdr company, like pdr links or next erara, whoever, and they're like hey, tell them that they could schedule at this shop to get the car fixed. And you're kind of a salesman that way. It's the same kind of deal here. Like hey, you're trying to get them to not only get this estimate from you. So that's really your job. It sounds like when you have an estimate to write not a repair to write is to get that customer to book if it's a repairable vehicle. Is that? That's what I'm hearing?

Speaker 2:

That is 100% the truth. Yep, because, like I said, if it's a direct repair shop, at that point I mean, they've already chose to. They picked you out of options to go get an estimate, but they are not always set on. Hey, I'm going to get my car repaired here because they don't have to. So, yes, it's up to you to seal that deal with them and be the face of the shop and sell the shop to get them to make that appointment.

Speaker 1:

And am I wrong in the assumption that a body shop manager owner, if they have an estimator who is a good salesperson, is more valuable than someone who does not, because they're bringing work in? So is that something they're looking at in the interview process? Is can this person be personable enough, you know, confident enough to land these jobs?

Speaker 2:

100%. You've got to be confident and you've got to be personable, and I mean you've got to be likable. You can't be personable, and I mean you've got to be likable. You can't go in there and just I mean, have a chip on your shoulder and be grumpy, which doesn't get you very far at any job, but it will definitely make a bigger difference when you're dealing with the public and you are the face of that shop. To bring these vehicles in the front door yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

And I'm just going to triple check and you've seen estimators who are good at selling and then estimators that are not good at selling, and the outcome of their overall income is very different.

Speaker 2:

Oh, no doubt, Absolutely. And it will make a difference on, I mean, if your salary plus commission. It will make a difference on if your salary or hourly because, like I said it, that is going to affect you across the board because a lot of times you're the second face that that customer sees at that shop. Usually the first face will be the receptionist up front and then that receptionist is going to call you and you're going to go out there and you are the one they feel that you are the shop when they are talking to you. So I mean you've got to represent or it's not going to work out.

Speaker 1:

So then, at the end of the year, the end of the quarter, when you tally up your numbers and you know how many sales you brought in, you know sales you brought in. Know how many sales you brought in, you know sales uh you brought in? Um, that's a matter, uh that you can use negotiating your next salary increase or whether you want salary.

Speaker 1:

You know, is that a way that you can leverage with your uppers? Just look, I know I landed this much and I know suzy q did not. Uh, I, I think I I deserve a raise. Or I want salary plus commission, because I'm good at this.

Speaker 2:

Oh, absolutely. And I mean you get into a shop that is an hourly shop as far as you mean to get your foot in the door and that's a that's a great place to start. I mean you can still use these same concepts and to either get a better pay your salary there, or look for a different body shop in your, in your area and use that one for you mean your experience, and move on to something else that you mean is going to pay better. So you mean, just work, give the industries, body shop industry, a chance.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't have to be the whole three years at one shop, you mean right right right move to what is going to benefit you and is going to you're comfortable with and happy being there. Because if you're not happy being there, you're not.

Speaker 1:

You're not, you're not going to perform nope no, and it's just like being an ia.

Speaker 1:

If you're not working well with one ia firm because you're don't get along with the recruiters or the QC guys just driving you bananas, that doesn't mean the whole industry is like that. It doesn't, because each IA firm has its own characteristics and differences, so a shop has its own. But yeah, what we're saying is, if you're going to jump in this industry, try to give it three years before you you say this industry is not right for me, because you really don't know if working at a shop is whether you enjoy it, whether it's that shop or whether it's being a body shop estimator period you don't truly enjoy. So that's awesome. I love the fact.

Speaker 1:

I never really thought too much about the idea that estimators help drive the revenue of the shop, that they are the salespeople in a lot of ways. Actually, they're the closers. Right, the leads come in from the insurance company, from the phone, but the estimator is truly the closer that can make a big difference in the shop. So that's really cool. I think that puts a different perspective than I ever really thought about it and that someone can come in there and make a big difference and feel like, no, I'm having a big impact, even though I'm still an employee that now you're. You're driving this bus along with the rest of the team, so I like that Awesome. Anything you want to add before we wrap up?

Speaker 2:

No, just being nice Big thing about the body shop estimator is this I mean it's a nationwide job pool. You can go anywhere in the country. There's always a body shop hiring. Any place that you land, there's always work and there's just such a small pool of body shop estimators to pull from for body shops, um, just because there's nobody teaching it.

Speaker 1:

So I mean it's a great great opportunity, it's a great great career path when I looked up, uh, the number of body shops there were, I was floored. I couldn't believe it. It's depending on which google article you click on, it's 50 to 100 000. So let's go the low end, get 60 000 shops. All of those have at least one estimator and most of them would need another one or wish they could replace the one they had, or need two because they're not happy.

Speaker 1:

Like you said, it's a small pool and so all the people who might be listening to this, if you're like man, I really do want to move eventually I'm in Dallas or I want to move over here. I want to move over there and as an IA, maybe the opportunities are not where you're at, because it's competitive, because there's just not enough claim volume to support you. That skill set you have can be, mark said, transferred anywhere in the country with a shop. You could say I want to move here because my mom's sick, it's in Nashville and I don't think I can make an IA thing work there, for whatever reason. Or I don't want to even try, I just need a job. You know I could take care of my mom and visit her daily or whatever the case is for you. That can happen with a shop because there is always a presence there and you can look in any area, look up body shop estimate position, wherever it is you're looking to move, guarantee within 40 miles really close, there is a shop that is looking for somebody right now. So, mark, thanks for being here.

Speaker 1:

I look forward to more conversations about this and IAs. If you have questions about transferring or transitioning from being an IA being an independent adjuster or an independent appraiser to being a body shop estimator, or if you haven't even gotten started, feel free to give us a call and talk to one of our auto career mentors. You can give us a call at 844-4i-path or head to iiapathcom. We have the independent adjuster path to get you started on that road if you want to be an IA and start your own business, and we have the body shop estimimate Path now, which will help you learn the same skill sets but then offers placement at shops where we help set up interviews for you. And if this is a career you're interested in, we'd love to talk with you and help you decide for sure that this is the right path you want to go down. Mark, thanks for being here.

Speaker 2:

Yep, thanks again.