The Independent Adjuster Podcast (IA Path)

Future of Collision Repair and Estimating Through the Eyes of Crash Champions CEO Matt Epert

• Season 8 • Episode 315

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In this must-listen episode, we sit down with Matt Epert, CEO of Crash Champions, the third-largest body shop chain in the nation, to uncover the future of collision repair and what it means for independent adjusters and estimators. Matt breaks down how he grew from a single shop to a 600-location powerhouse, and what that explosive growth means for YOU.

If you’re an independent adjuster or a collision estimator, this episode is packed with industry insights you can’t afford to miss. Matt dives into:

  • The critical role of collision estimators and why they’re the backbone of the industry.
  • How AI and technology are reshaping the future of estimating, and why your human skills will always be in demand.
  • Why knowing both CCC One and Mitchell can give you a serious edge in your career.
  • How to break into the industry with zero experience and make a name for yourself in a field desperate for skilled professionals.

Matt also shares behind-the-scenes details of major acquisitions, like the Service King deal, and how they’re creating even more opportunities for independent adjusters and collision estimators nationwide.

Whether you’re looking to expand your skills, break into the industry, or prepare for the AI-driven future of collision repair, Matt’s insights offer a roadmap to success. This is your chance to hear directly from one of the top leaders in collision repair about how to thrive in today’s market.

Speaker 1:

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Independent Adjuster podcast or, if you're watching over on the DamageWise podcast, you know glad you are here. I am joined by Matt, and Matt is not your ordinary insurance adjuster that a lot of times we'll have on. He's actually the CEO of the third largest body shop chain MSO in the nation. He's the CEO of Crash Champions, and what's really cool to me about Matt and his story is that he's really an entrepreneurial guy. He started the company in 1999 with a single shop and he's grown it into the third largest MSO now in the nation with over 600 locations. So to me that speaks entrepreneurial heart, and a lot of us are entrepreneurs here who listen and are independent adjusters.

Speaker 1:

But I think what you should care about Matt being here, is that there is a role that many of us IAs don't even realize that is very similar to what we do. We're interested in writing estimates for a living. We heard about being an IA when our house was flooded or the roof was ripped off and we heard about this mysterious job where we could help people in their time of need, and many of us are. We're looking, or are looking still, for a career that feels like it matters more than just the day-to-day grind that is actually helping people, and you can do all of that as a collision estimator at a body shop. So I brought Matt on here to try to give us some more insights into the world of the body shop, in the world of collision estimating. So, matt, I am so glad you're here. Man Pleasure to meet you.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thanks for having me, Chris. Glad to take your time.

Speaker 1:

Well, I got to ask you before we get into these scheduled questions when you started the one shop, did you know it was going to go bonkers to 600? Did you have this grandiose vision, or was it like I'm just starting?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was in my 20s then. I was just starting. I was wanting to own my own business and trying to make a living, and so for a long time, it was just that one shop with me and a partner really started to grow. It in 2014, after I bought my partner out and, uh, that was a little bit of watching the industry start to consolidate and it looked like staying small Wasn't really the best thing to do in this industry for the future. So it doesn't mean you can't stay small, but the path I saw was a lot of consolidation and a lot and a big need for bigger companies started out then just to be a regional play too. Right, it wasn't meant to go national, but all those trends continuing. Here we are today, so it's been exciting.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's been impressive to watch. I mean, even just last year you guys made an acquisition that just I think it was last year, it might have been two years ago now that floored me. By buying what I thought was a bigger MSO, you guys stepped up and really took over number three spot.

Speaker 2:

You do want to talk a little bit about. You know who you acquired and what kind of put you over that 600 mark. Yeah, that was the acquisition of Service King two years almost two years last month, so exactly two years ago and yeah, they were bigger exactly two years ago. And yeah, they were bigger. The platform was struggling a little bit but just from some decisions that were made that we thought we could do things a little bit differently and be really successful. There were some great shops and some great people and it's been great putting the two of them together.

Speaker 1:

That's so cool. All right, matt. Well, you oversee in the CEO position. You know, I know it's 10,000 foot view, but I've seen your videos. You get down and dirty with the people. You have 600 locations. You started with one. You've seen every position. You know every position. So can you describe to us what a collision estimator is in the words of a crash champion? Ceo.

Speaker 2:

Sure, yeah. So it's a key position in the company really, because they're the glue of it all. Right, I kind of speak to you. I mean, at its heart, you're writing an estimate on the vehicle or which consists of a repair plan, but you're really the link between the customer and insurance provider and the body technician. Sometimes you're in the middle. You got a lot of maybe. The downside is you got a lot of masters, because you're trying to please the customer and the insurance partner and the technician repairing the car and then, of course, management too. So that might be like the worst side of the coin.

Speaker 1:

You're supposed to sell it, matt, that wasn't selling.

Speaker 2:

But the exciting part about that is being able to. There is a place where all those parties are satisfied. They're, you know, from an insurer perspective, they want to be charged what's fair. From a technician perspective, they just want to be paid for what they do. And from a customer perspective, of course, they want their car fixed up to quality standards and returned to pre-accident condition. And so, even though you have those audiences, I think the exciting part is you are the one that's able to make that all all come to fruition. It starts with with you. So I want to be careful, you know, not knowing the whole audience, it shouldn't be anybody's scared of either, cause it's not that, it's not that difficult, it's not rocket science, it's very doable.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I combine it's not brain surgery, it's not rocket science into, it's not a rocket surgery, right, like it's it. This isn't the most complicated thing, but what I've seen on, you know, the IA side, as an adjuster and appraiser, and what I believe is true in what you're saying on the estimator side, is a lot of it's just to do with people. Like, if you can care about the person, whether it's the technician, whether it's management, what they're facing, what, what you know end of month goals are they up against? Why is there, you know, this stress or why is the customer stressed? If you could start reading the room and understanding what's going on big picture in everybody's role and everybody's situation, then suddenly you can make or break, like you said, the situation. You're the link to it all and so that's a great place to be, if you like being one of those A players. You know you like having that influence.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a. It's a. It's exciting. I mean, from little solutions such as this part isn't available or it's it's backordered. Well, could we fix it? Is there a way? Um, let me scour the earth and find it somehow some way. So there's always small problems that you're able to work through solutions for with a little creativity. I find that to be a little bit exciting, whether you're doing it at a small scale of just one car, or really, as you mentioned the entrepreneurial part of me, like that's really what I do at a small scale of of just one car, or really, uh, as you mentioned, the entrepreneurial part of me, like that's really what I do at a bigger scale, all day, every day, today. But, um, it's the same skillset, you know, on a small scale dealing with one vehicle.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, You're writing estimates, you're taking photos, you're talking to a vehicle owner, you're talking to and working with insurance guidelines and all that and at the end of the day, you know it's not not rocket science people, so I love it All right. So next question is, kind of you know, if someone is interested, they're like hearing this and like, okay, I think I could imagine doing that role of being a collision estimator, being kind of that linchpin in the process that kind of gets the touch the vehicle start to finish and oversee that process. What qualifications, certifications or like exposure to writing estimates should someone have before trying to enter a shop Some industries you can just be totally green and walk in? Is collision estimating like that, or is it something that people should kind of be familiar with before they try to start working at a body shop?

Speaker 2:

yeah, great question. So for us, totally green is okay. We have a program that we call um adas, which is training I'm a service advisor from scratch and we can do that in the matter of of several months. Um, so, um, excuse me, perfectly comfortable in our company, taking someone from scratch and teaching them the trade and the skill. There's certain certifications along the way that are very helpful that you can get.

Speaker 2:

You know some iCar training and things to really truly understand what it takes to fix the car is always always beneficial.

Speaker 2:

But from a navigating through the estimating system and they're really very intuitive, right, this function or this part leads to the next, et cetera you can learn to navigate within the program pretty quickly. Then comes really the experience of I've seen this before that debt looks like it's going to take this many hours to fix. Um, and then, um, you know some things like I-CAR, um, which gets specific into procedures and stuff, so that the more you're comfortable with how the vehicle gets repaired, the more confidence that you have in your in in this job, that's for sure. Um, so you kind of go, I say, from the stages of actually producing an estimate to, over time, becomes the quality of the estimate right and the faster you want to dig in and learn the details. I would say that that's the pace at which your estimates truly become, become quality estimates. Um, at least for, for, for in the in the body shop scenario, and I'm sure as an independent it's very much the same.

Speaker 2:

You know the great thing is to not to go too far. But everybody, I help you too you just want to make sure you can trust them. So every body shop will help an independent adjuster write a sheet. They just want to make sure that you know it's not too aggressive or outside the boundaries of what would be considered bar.

Speaker 1:

Right Totally. And one of the things that we talk about to our students in our mentorship programs we're teaching them auto damage and teaching them how to use CCC-1 and how to navigate. That skill set is okay. As an IA or an appraiser and adjuster, you are writing an estimate. You're in the field, you're in the tow yard, you're in the person's backyard there's a lot you don't know about that car, whereas when we're training collision estimators, you're in the tow yard, you're in the person's backyard, there's a lot you don't know about that car, Whereas when we're training collision estimators, we're saying, okay, yes, the way we write estimates is technically exactly the same.

Speaker 1:

But now you have to go beyond writing an estimate to actually producing a repair plan, because now the technician is going to take the bumper off. We're going to see what that radar support at the bottom is doing, not just the top, where we could see it through the sight shield or whatever you know like. We're going to really dig into this with the technician to make sure that what gets written is way more detailed. But I think the two parties of some shops and some insurance companies don't realize that they're almost producing two different things because it looks the same. It's like one's an estimate, one's a repair plan that's why one's so much more detailed and one's like we don't know what the shop's actually going to do with this car. So we can't write it yet because it's not tore down.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So you've got what's a good directionally correct start of it, right? You've got, um, what's a good directionally correct start of it right until you, until you disassemble the vehicle and and know it and and do some research on things like parts etc yeah totally it's a it's a different world being able to get that car apart and and disassemble it and see it all in its glory.

Speaker 1:

And you're like whoa, this was way worse than I imagined when the hood was still on it and the bumper was still on it. So if somebody somebody wasn't, let's say, at a Crash Champions because I know you guys' program is newer and it's really industry leading in my mind that you guys would take somebody new, convert them into a producing estimator. What are some things that typically historically, you know they're CCC1. Are you guys using mitchell? Do you guys do a lot of mitchell estimates for certain carriers? Um, is that something that you guys provide exposure to as well in your program?

Speaker 2:

yeah, both. Um, ccc1 is probably the industry leading for sure. Um, as how I would describe it and and and Mitchell's important too. Um, you know, progressive, for example, is a major carrier that uses Mitchell. So I kind of, uh, maybe a few years back there would be a lot of service advisors in the industry, um, that didn't know Mitchell. And I would sometimes just tease them and say, well, you know, progressive has 20% of the cars on the street and how good of a service advisor are you if you don't want to learn how to write those other 20% of the cars? Now, that was just me teasing and taunting, but it is like um, learning both systems is is is beneficial, I imagine, for you. Um, you can service more carriers if you use platforms, so it kind of broadens your business, right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely Totally. And really Mitchell has seen a surge in the last three, four years really, since they came out with their online database and kind of Autotext, who used to kind of be the second runner behind CCC1, even the fourth runner at one point, I think kind of has slid back and Mitchell's kind of dominated that second place right behind CCC1. It has been a shift, but for sure. When I first started training people, it was Autotex, autotex. Autotex is what everybody wanted on the IA space, and now it's totally flipped over. The last three years it's all CCC1.

Speaker 1:

And then some, mitchell, like you said, if someone is looking, they're like okay, so I got to learn these things, whether it's through your program or somewhere else, if I'm going to go work at a different collision shop. But is there even a need for them? Like that's always the big fear when I do coaching calls with people. They're looking to become an independent adjuster or an appraiser, they're looking to become a collision estimator. They're like I don't even know if there's room for me. It just feels like there's probably been you know, 20 years of somebody doing this before me and they're never even gonna take a second look at me.

Speaker 2:

So can you talk a little bit to the need of our industry. Is there a need or is it kind of a saturated market? Yeah, there's absolutely a need. So there's an industry shortage really, of people at all levels of the industry and that has a lot to do with, you know, baby boomer generation all coming to retirement age. So those that have been doing it for a long time are are ready to to hang it up right and enjoy some retirement years. But there's also been, from a um education perspective, a huge push toward, um, you know, white collar, college, college degree, um careers and I think you know from we talk about it a lot for a blue collar industry even though the service advisor, you know, is maybe the quote unquote cleaner route, right, because you don't get dirty but um for for the neglect of looking at this as a great career choice for a lot of years. And I think as an industry, um, we're getting better now at selling it perhaps than we used to be in the past. But, um, one of the things that super important to us is letting people know like you can make a great, a great living in in this industry, and the more that we get that word out there. Um, we're finding that there is interest, so um can make a, can make a really good living and support your family.

Speaker 2:

In this industry there is a ton of of need, even in a world where, um, you know, ai and we might talk about that a little more is coming. It's very much a people, it's a service business. It machines are going to take over everything and even from a perspective of a service advisor for us, can easily become a manager of a shop if that's, if that's their desire. So in in a company like ours that's growing, um, it could just be the start of your um, you know, career in the industry could lead to something in management or support departments because of the organization being so big. There's support departments that review estimates, support departments that teach, support departments that check quality, support departments that handle facilities and things like that. So from a perspective of, is there a need in that role? Absolutely, and as an industry, there's a huge need in all areas which a service advisor could be a stepping stone towards something else as well.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I think it's somewhat a travesty really, to our current and future generations. I look at my sons and I think a lot of their peers that I have talked with, whether they're their cousins or friends, hearing. Like you know, most kids growing up want to be a YouTube star, a video game star or something of that nature, and it's like I'm all for that If you could do it. Like I wanted to be a football player, right, like let's do it. But sometimes we don't hear about these other great opportunities, whether it's being an adjuster or an appraiser. People are like this is a mystery, how do you get in? Or a collision estimator I didn't even know that was a thing and I love cars, so many people communicate that to us. I think it's important that if you guys in the industry push out that's like this is a great industry. Insurance overall, auto damage overall, auto repair, whether it's mechanical or body damage, is a great industry, because cars aren't going anywhere. The insurance companies have money, they are the banks, right, there is a lot of money. That is fueling the economy and people need to get back and forth to work and so their cars are the mode for that. So it really does provide a great opportunity for us and you know, dovetailing right into what you were saying about AI and the future.

Speaker 1:

You know the white collar jobs. You know I am an author. I write emails for a living to my audience. You know I'm making websites and doing all that stuff. So I'm an internet marketer, in essence in a training company. Those jobs were the first that I took.

Speaker 1:

I mean, most of white collar jobs went gone like that, like you don't need a graphic designer a lot of times now you could hire ChatGTP to say, hey, can you make an image of a car running into a light pole or whatever? Or just go over to the software and easily create images. But yeah, like you're saying, blue collar seems to be the last vestige of that's going to be touched to the degree that we saw the white collar jobs really affected. Can you expound on that a little more what you're seeing on the shop side? Because we see through the mirror dimly right. We kind of don't know what's the cutting edge. We're kind of at the bottom of the information age but like you're at the forefront of you know you guys are very modern. You're talking with the insurance carriers, you're talking with the technology leaders. What are you guys kind of seeing as AI's role moving into the collision industry?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it depends on who you talk to to, because you know, go to CTC's conference and you'll hear all the power of AI, but we haven't seen it yet and it's been a few years they've been talking about it. So I think it's just getting started from the shop side's ability to use it and I think Its first role is initial rollout of you know. From some photos and vehicle information it can generate a preliminary estimate. Perhaps that in your world becomes that first thing you did at a tow yard or in somebody's driveway. But then there's the other component of got to all be wrapped up together with some negotiations and with some, with some part searches and everything else.

Speaker 2:

I I think I would view ai probably like many um careers are. I think ai makes you more efficient and so, as a service advisor in our world, or even as in yours, I can't see a computer doing all of the negotiating, settling, writing a check to a customer and moving on there. It has to be a human component from the world we know today. I don't know about 20 years from now, but there is that human touch aspect that still has to happen and so still is a need. Ai is welcome because I think there's many things that are repetitive, many things that we would all love a tool to help us do it more efficiently. So we welcome it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but I wouldn't look at it as it's going to eliminate me. I would look at it as an efficiency tool absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

And how I tell people when they ask me about our side is I'm like, yeah, our I mean snap sheet came along years ago and took away a lot of the easy front bumper hits from our industry, right, like suddenly it was all going to snap sheet or it's going to we go look or whatever, like hey, just send those guys copart out there, take the photos at the salvage, lots and things. But what we've seen is that you know, like you said, a negotiation side, we are really on the insurance side, just a cost conservation tool, really, like we're there to make sure that checkbook is being used responsibly. And so on the shop side, it's the same thing. The shop has to make sure Somebody has to make sure at the shop that technician's getting paid its 12 hours for that quarter panel. It has to make sure they're getting paid from the insurance carrier for that clip, and somebody has to reconcile all that and negotiate all that.

Speaker 1:

So I do see that that is something that we're going to be used for. Is the human component between maybe two AI tools. Even that's like, hey, well, your computer missed this right, that's what we need, john. Can you just, can we just hear the picture of the headlight. It missed it right.

Speaker 2:

Someone's still gonna have to button it up, like you said someone's still going to have to button it up, like you said. Yeah, the vehicle complexity is going to continue to make that, you know. So just as the technology from a writing an estimate, ai might be advancing, the the difficulty of fixing a car is advancing, probably just as rapidly or even more. So you've got an increased difficult task. Ai is going to need to help you be a little more efficient to solve the difficulty of the technology part of the vehicle as they come in.

Speaker 1:

Well, matt man, I once again appreciate you being here. Someone wants to work for Crash Champions. If they're like man, I'm excited about this career. I heard about your program that you bring people in and train them up. How do they get in contact with you guys? How do they find out if there's something available to them in their market?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, just visit our website, grasschampionscom, and job postings are in there. Invite people to apply to the ADAS program, which is the program for learning how to be a service advisor or estimator. So be glad to talk to you.

Speaker 1:

And if someone has already been in the industry let's say as an independent or as a staff adjuster they've already been writing estimates Is that somebody you guys are excited to come over and kind of transfer over to the dark side, so to speak, or is it something where it's like nah, you know, is that a good or a bad thing? Is what I'm getting at.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a good thing. It's sometimes fun because I think everybody has a perception of it's easier on this side or that side, and I don't think either are easy to be honest. I think they have different challenges. But it's interesting when guys come over from the carrier side and we work a lot harder than they. They they maybe thought we did. I would say you know what I honestly tell people in in in your world, which maybe is true, maybe isn't. My perception is you guys might have, you guys might work more hours maybe, or or in a day, but you have a little flexibility to it. You could take three or four hours and then go work, you know, from noon till 10, nobody's going to stop you. But for us, you know we're a little bit tied to the hours that the shop is open for the role. So in the shop, compared to to an independent, I say give up a little flexibility in time. But that's with anything right, pluses and minuses.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you get consistency in a paycheck versus the inconsistency. As an IA always said, I trade in the 9 to 5 so I can work 5 am to 9 pm, Like that's what I ended up doing. Matt thanks so much for being on the independent adjuster podcast. I appreciate you. I look forward to talking with you real soon. Thanks for having me, Chris.