The Nightmare Engine Podcast
Welcome to The Nightmare Engine — a weekly show that churns with dread and drips with dark insight. Hosted by David Viergutz, the Master of Malice, this show tears back the curtain on all things horror. From the art of scaring readers to chilling interviews with guests of the macabre—authors, occultists, scholars of the strange—you'll explore the gears that keep the genre grinding.
And nestled in the static… notes from The Curator of The Dead Letters, whispering deeper truths from the shadows.
This isn’t just a podcast.
It’s a transmission from the other side.
The Nightmare Engine Podcast
Navigating Horror Comedy with D.M Guay: Shaun of the Dead to Bigfoot Conventions
How did you like the show? Text us and let us know.
After a surprise bout of pneumonia rudely interrupted my vacation, I returned to the Nightmare Engine podcast with renewed energy and a very special guest—Denise Guay, also known as DM Guay—to dive into the wonderfully bizarre world of horror comedy. Denise, whose early influences came from her mother’s unexpected love for humor and scares, shared her expert insights on how movies like Shaun of the Dead and Tucker and Dale vs. Evil masterfully balance laughs with screams. Our lively conversation explores horror comedy not just as a quirky genre mashup, but as the perfect entry point for those hesitant to tackle the full-on frights of traditional horror.
We also reflected on personal boundaries in horror, like my own visceral reaction to body horror and the irrational fears we all carry—yes, even something as mundane as trains. Horror fiction, much like Stephen King’s works, often provides a safe space to confront our deepest anxieties. I even shared a ghostly encounter of my own, a night at the haunted Emily Morgan Hotel where the line between reality and fiction blurred in eerie ways.
From there, the episode takes a wild turn as Denise and I talk about our visit to a Bigfoot convention in Ohio, where the legendary cryptid came to life through art, folklore, and enthusiastic theories. We also explored the parallels between horror storytelling and real-world tech advancements, like Elon Musk’s neural implants, and how these innovations inspire both creativity and ethical dilemmas in the genre.
I wrapped up the episode by inviting listeners to visit my website for more horror storytelling adventures, including my latest project, Scare Mail. Whether you’re a lifelong fan of the genre or just curious to dip your toes into the strange and spooky, this episode promises a delightful mix of humor, fear, and the unknown.
🔗Connect with David
🌎 Website | 🎥 Youtube | 👨🏫Facebook | 📸 Instagram |🐤 Twitter | 🕰️TikTok
⭐️ Leave a Review
If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please do leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and let us know in your review who you want to see next on the podcast. Thanks!
You can also Tweet me @ViergutzDavid and tell me what horror author you want to hear from next, or what topics you want me to cover. 🙏🙏
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Nightmare Engine podcast Episode. I don't know, because I've been out of this game for a little bit, but I'm proud to bring you another episode. I'm sure I'll figure it out later. I am your host, dave Raguse, and I am just recovering from what was pneumonia for the entire portion of my vacation, or what was supposed to be my vacation. So I traveled up to Wisconsin to visit that half of the family and immediately got sick, and so that was a lot of fun to watch everybody celebrate without me.
Speaker 1:But you know, coming back to things, coming back to the warehouse and to Scare Mill with a kind of rejuvenated now that I am no longer sick and I am back in my home, we're going to do what we always do. We're going to do the things that make us happy, and that includes this podcast, and so every single time that I bring somebody on, I try to look for new and interesting people who can bring cool things to the horror community, stuff that people wouldn't normally get. And so today we're going to be talking about something called horror comedy, and I am going to botch the official definition of it because it's not the circle I tend to be in, but I've got with me Miss Denise Gay, and she goes by DM Gay.
Speaker 1:And she is our horror comedy expert, and I'm just really proud to bring her onto the show, and so we can talk a little bit today. Denise, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm good. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing all right, I definitely laughed.
Speaker 2:when you think I'm an expert, I'm like expert and interesting. I'll try. I don't want to disappoint y'all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, Denise, different circle right, A little bit different circle than the.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, I still love you, though, right? I know we're all horror people in our hearts.
Speaker 1:There's just different flavors.
Speaker 2:You know, I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that because everyone loves ice cream, but vanilla is the best and some people like chocolate, so it's like I mean, in the end we all love ice cream.
Speaker 2:We're more like the Rainbow Sherbert of horror, like if we're being an ice cream.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the horror comedy people.
Speaker 2:Okay, you're right, it's not ice cream, I lied the Superman. Isn't that what it's called? The Superman? That's like red and pink and blue, I don't know. It's like all the flavors, yeah.
Speaker 1:So tell our folks.
Speaker 2:What is horror comedy.
Speaker 1:I think it's more interesting to talk about what led up to horror comedy Just like what led up to horror for all of us. So tell us where this started with you.
Speaker 2:All right. So it started when I was a little kid. My mom is a huge horror fan and you never guessed by looking at her. She's like a mild-mannered retired Catholic school teacher. She was my third grade Catholic school teacher and she has, like you know, the little hair helmet and the puffy paint sweatshirts with the snowman on him.
Speaker 2:But boy, her favorite movie is motel hell, you know those are always the worst so, yeah, I grew up with like a horror mom who would drag me to all of the um, all the movies.
Speaker 2:Like she dragged me to poltergeist, like you know, to see it in the theater when I was in the third grade, I mean wildly things we wouldn't most parents wouldn't do today, but I mean I loved every minute of it. So, um, we're kind of a family of jokey people. So I think that we always leaned more towards the camp, like the movies that were so bad that they were hilariously bad, or the movies that were monsters but there was also like something funny about them. So more like Return of the Living Dead than, say, texas Chainsaw Massacre, like Evil Dead 2, like you know, those kind of movies. So I think that's how it started. Like we are people that like to make jokes and when it comes to monster movies, like we love monster movies but we like the ones that are campy and the ones that are a little bit funnier and the ones that definitely fall into like the definition technically of horror comedy.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think, after like a couple of viewings of like jason or you know or, stuff with freddy krueger like I'm like, okay, this is kind of silly at this point, but I still appreciate it for the horror. Like I remember a young me watching, you know, seeing Freddy for the first time and I was like terrified. But now that I like 33, you know it's kind of silly yeah so what is? What is the quintessential?
Speaker 2:like horror comedy movie Like I think like Little Shop of Horrors.
Speaker 1:That's like the first thing.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that was definitely, definitely horror comedy, and I'd say definitely on the more mild side of horror comedy, but um, excellent examples would be like shawn of the dead or two, or tucker and dale versus evil, um, even I'd say like the adams family and the monsters, I mean that's really how like a lot of people end up in horror is when they're children they find these shows that are about monsters, but they're not scary, they're funny, and that becomes sort of the on-ramp to a lifelong love of monsters that may lead them deeper and deeper into horror.
Speaker 2:So horror comedy I would describe as like the on-ramp to horror fandom. You know, for people that either were too young or maybe they don't realize that they like horror because they only think of it as one thing, like a lot of people who are normies, I feel like they hear the word horror and they like scowl because they think it's something like Hostel or Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And if you're not into that flavor of horror you're just going to automatically think all of it is like that and you're not going to try any of it. But when you see something that's like a horror comedy and it might not be branded or called a horror comedy it might be monster something or you know something like that you would be more likely to try it.
Speaker 1:So sure we're the waiting pool.
Speaker 2:We're like the shallow end of the pool that leads into horror.
Speaker 1:So yeah, or they think we're awful people, right, and we're, we're, we're devil worshipers and we're just, uh, we, we've got a messed up childhood and there is um there, there, there's something wrong with us, and so, therefore, that is the only thing that we can find enjoyment in is the pain of others, and it's like no, like you gotta gotta understand that what what horror does for folks like horror is like cheap, safe thrills.
Speaker 2:Like that's it.
Speaker 1:Like some people jump out of airplanes, we watch scary movies like it's no difference. I mean it's honestly, horror writers.
Speaker 2:they're generally the happiest and most well adjusted people that I have met, and I think it's because, all of us have already dealt with our demons. So we're all like you know. We're all cheerful and good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the demons are out on the page, exactly.
Speaker 2:It's like we work through our fears, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean so all time movie monster. I mean top of the line.
Speaker 2:What is it? Because? I mean I'm, I mean any monster, I mean my number one is Godzilla.
Speaker 1:But that's I mean, that's questionable, I mean as far as what camp he belongs in.
Speaker 2:I mean sci-fi, campy comedy, amazing, yeah, yeah I'll still watch any godzilla movie, but it seems like I only watch them like on an airplane.
Speaker 1:You know like I'll never like go look for a godzilla movie, but you know what really, yeah, yeah, well, I'll never like go look for a Godzilla movie.
Speaker 2:Really. Yeah, well, I'll have to like change your ways because, yeah, there's a lot of really good ones lately. Godzilla minus one was amazing. It's like made me cry, like I've never had like a human storyline in a Godzilla movie. Be so fantastic.
Speaker 1:But of course, you know, I love the ones from the 60s and stuff that were all campy rubber suits, stomping on tanks. I mean, yes, yeah, that reminds me of like, um, the shift from like power rangers, like, if you remember power rangers, it was like cardboard boxes and stuff and and like the town was just made out of like you know, like clay and stuff, like that.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that stuff so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then you get the new age stuff yeah then, you get the new age stuff and it's all cgi and it's more realistic and it's like I kind of miss the old stuff there's a place for both.
Speaker 2:Definitely a place for both, but he's not really like a horror monster. So I think my favorite horror monsters would be like the deadites from the evil dead and ash versus evil dead.
Speaker 1:Like I love them a lot yes, I just watched the um the newest evil dead um evil dead rise I think, was that the one of? The apartment complex yes yeah, and so, like with that one, I was like yeah, this is. This is old school evil dead. Like this is exactly what it was meant to be. It's meant to be over the top and ridiculous.
Speaker 2:It's meant to be the minute you saw that wood chipper in like act one, you're like I know it's exactly what's gonna happen there.
Speaker 1:It's like checkoff's wood chipper like I know that's gonna show up again at the end of the movie, so yeah, yeah, I mean just a little bit of throwback to like the old evil dead movies where it was just like never been seen before. Can we make it rain blood on this, on this screen, you know, and can we get people to enjoy it?
Speaker 2:you know, like kind of the same you know alien.
Speaker 1:For me was that very much that way like the first alien movie. I remember like watching that and I was like this is the scariest damn thing I've ever seen oh yeah, that was before.
Speaker 2:It's like a haunted house movie in space like, where, like the monsters, they're trying to get you and you can't get out. It's amazing. Yeah, like event horizon horror movie 100%. I got upset by like Event Horizon.
Speaker 1:Like Event Horizon upset that for me. But like I remember watching the alien movies and then like, as new ones came out, I didn't care if it was like new alien, if it was like, oh, this is like Space Marines versus the aliens, or it's like uh all.
Speaker 2:I wanted.
Speaker 1:All I cared about was the fact that it was alien and so like when the newest alien came out and it was like super, like nostalgic right I don't, I don't remember the name of is it romulus?
Speaker 1:yeah, and it was all the throwbacks right and all the fan service, like I think that's what I love a lot about the horror community is that, like there were a whole bunch on occasion. There will be staples right. There will be things that just kind of stick with us that we love, and then somebody along the lines will design something and create something that just gives service back to that thing, you know.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's. It kind of reminds me of, like how they're doing with the Terrifier movies. Are you familiar with those?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yes yeah.
Speaker 1:And with, with the Terrifier movies. It's just the same thing every single time. There's no, there's no crazy storyline, it's. It's just over the top ridiculous. Just like the first one. So like the hard, community is very good at giving you exactly what you're looking for, so that's amazing.
Speaker 2:I love it yeah.
Speaker 1:And so that's why I say we're like we are probably one of the coolest bunch out there compared to, you know, some other, some other types of fans. So let's, let's talk a little bit about about the books, right, and and about, and about reading. Like what, did you grow up reading a lot of horror books, or were you, or is that kind of something you picked up along?
Speaker 2:the way. Well, you know, once again I'm going to blame my mom, because, you know, we lived in the middle of nowhere, so going to the library was like a special occasion. But the few books that we did own, that we had in the house, were all my mom's, and every single one of them was Stephen King, of course, because it was the 80s and that was when you know.
Speaker 2:So it was like a whole bookcase full of Stephen King, I think. Like my dad had one book and it was like some history book like Arms of Croppp, and that everything else was like Stephen King. So it was all monsters in my house all the time.
Speaker 1:And and and? What did she talk to you about when she, when she, like, when she saw you were reading those, did she?
Speaker 2:mention anything, she was just. You know, she was happy, I was reading, I wasn't watching TV.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, I've got an old, worn copy of, I think, salem's lot. I think that was my probably my first introduction to Stephen King. Like like Stephen King, like in between cocaine bitches, was like really good.
Speaker 2:God bless him, though I mean, yeah, he wasn't a boring writer like us. He was out partying and trying to live it up, and he survived it, so it's all right. It's all right, yeah, I mean and, and he survived it, so it's all right, it's all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, and the interviews are pretty, it's like, it's pretty awesome, Like I wish that one day. He's like so you know, mr King, like where do you get your inspiration? He goes cocaine, a lot of cocaine.
Speaker 2:I mean it got us maximum overdrive, and I don't care what people say, I love that movie. So See and people hated Christine. I love Christine for that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, I still have that song stuck in my head Um the song the radio would play.
Speaker 2:Um, now you're going to get it stuck in my head. You can stop right now. Don't, don't give me an earworm. I'm going to play it. No, no, yeah, but no it's that's um no, that's something. That's something about horror.
Speaker 1:And I and I asked this kind of this, this question pretty much pretty much every time but you're a horror writer.
Speaker 2:You've been around horror, so what scares you then? There are a few things that I can't do in horror. Where my lines are and my limits.
Speaker 2:And one of them is body horror. Okay, and that's a recent thing because of my own medical things, where I was like, just right now, emotionally I can't do body horror. So like everybody was raving about the substance and part of me wanted to see it but I didn't because I was like, oh, I know it's body horror and I just don't know if I'm in the space for it, like right now it's like a little too close to home.
Speaker 2:And the other thing is like I can't stand when, like, bad things happen to little kids you know, like what was that spider movie that just came out like, where it was like some space spider and the chick the little girl was raising in her room and it was getting bigger and bigger staying or something and I was like as soon as I saw the baby and I was like, no, something bad's gonna happen to that baby, so I'm not gonna movie. So it's like those are the things that I just can't do. It's just like a little too emotional for me.
Speaker 1:Sting was very much like eight-legged freaks.
Speaker 2:Was it.
Speaker 1:It felt like that, I think you would.
Speaker 2:I think you'd probably enjoy it.
Speaker 1:So it was campy but I was still like the part to the baby so those are the things that that bother me.
Speaker 2:I don't know that I'd say scare, but you know, it's like once you face death, like personally, like up close. It's like everything's in perspective. So things that scare other people might not scare you as much sure so I feel like that's where I am.
Speaker 2:It's like there are limits of things that make me uncomfortable, but I don't know about actually being scared, because it's like I've been to the point where everything and all hope is lost so I don't know, it takes a lot, probably, to actually scare scare me, and maybe I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, I think that I think a lot of people like can find a little bit of safety in in horror, like, oh yeah, it's a safe scare, it's like you feel all those feelings and you and you oh, I mean how many of us like we watch a movie or reread a book and we're like, well, what would I do?
Speaker 2:like we're working through what we would do in that situation. So it's almost like training for real world trauma and horror and disaster and crisis, because you know that's what you do. It's like it's a safe way to work through those feelings and ask yourself, like what would I do? Would I do the same dumb things as this character, or would I do this or that? So it's almost like working through a plan for real world crisis.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and I don't know how many times that I've been like, well, you just take a shortcut and then, like, think back. I'm like, yeah, I'm in the middle of a horror movie right now, like I think, I think that all the time.
Speaker 2:I'm like yeah, this is how this horror movie begins.
Speaker 1:Like let's split up, yeah, recover more ground, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will never ask my friends to split up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so my my big. Thing is trains. I'm like locomotives. It's an irrational fear.
Speaker 2:It fear doesn't make any sense. I'm fine on the metro, but like some big, like coal-powered thing, like I don't want anything to do with it, like how often do we get to go on?
Speaker 1:big coal-powered things like here in the us. For me never, yeah, we never get there also be never like so, um, you know, and I think there's, and I think real horror is kind of kind of. Something that creeps me out too is like I've I've been to. You know I've been into buildings with chasing after guys with guns and I've been. You know fights in my life and that sort of thing and and you know fighting guys with knives and like I don't.
Speaker 1:I've done all that, but like one time. So when this is my wife. When she was, when she was wooing me, when we first started dating, she took me to the Emily in san antonio, without ever telling me the history behind the emily morgan hotel let me guess is it haunted? Extremely, extremely.
Speaker 2:I like her already see, I knew I liked her she took you to a haunted hotel during during your wooing. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and all of that was overshadowed, what was not even something that like stuck with me until like. Until we realized, like she paid for the, the floor that is the most haunted, which is like. We stay on the 12th floor it's actually the 13th floor and then like or is it still? But it was the 14th floor is actually, however, that works.
Speaker 1:And then like you know, she got like there's bottle service. And then there was, they had carriage rides around like with the horse-drawn carriage and so like all this stuff was happening. Then she was like oh, by the way, here's where we stayed, and I'm like no no, and so and and from from a horror writer like I don't want anything to do with this, you know, like I can deal with the guy with a gun, but like ghosts, like I can't shoot the ghost, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So the ghosts. I have a ghost story, since we were just together in Las Vegas at the horseshoe, so I forget what floor I was on yes, I did not know.
Speaker 2:Supposedly it's one of the most haunted places in Las Vegas and I only asked that. I only tell you this because my roomie and I in Vegas, at the horseshoe, like one morning we woke up we both had these big scratches on our hands and we couldn't figure out where we had gotten them because we don't remember it happening the night before and we were like sitting in the bar area with other authors and we were like we got these weird scratches. And then my roommate was like yeah, I thought you came home last night because I heard voices and footsteps and I looked up and you weren't there. You weren't home yet. Home last night because I heard voices and footsteps and I looked up and you weren't there. You weren't home yet.
Speaker 2:And of course, our friend looks at us and he's like well, it's because this is like the most haunted hotel in Las Vegas. And I was like what? And he's like you've got ghosts in your room and they were scratching you. I was like do not tell me this on night two and I've got to be here for four more nights. Like what do you do? Like this isn't helping me. And he's like well, I'm trying to save your life. I'm like what am I gonna do against a ghost?
Speaker 2:yeah, what the heck yeah, so, and I'm like I'm not normally like a ghosty kind of person, but I was, like you know, a little bit on edge after that with the scratches on my hand and the weird voices, so I don't know who's it? Haunted by by some apparently there was a fire there where a bunch of people died, like in the 80s, I don't know, like a mobster or something, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I just think like you know, somebody in a suit with a Tommy gun, like that's what I think of, like haunting the place.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm just recounting what happened, you know we were there.
Speaker 1:So yeah, well, great.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I shouldn't have told you Now I know that. Um, you were not in a good state when I saw you because right after so you did not recount the whole tale.
Speaker 1:No, yeah Well, I've been saving this story for the podcast because all right, tell me. So so, first off, it is an assault on the senses there. It is nuts, like there's so much going on, like there's bells and whistles and sound effects and all these things coming from all these doodads that are all moving and doing stuff and then they pump are they haunted doodads?
Speaker 1:I don't know, like they had weird stuff don't get me wrong and like I think it was an assault on the senses on purpose. So what they did was like it felt like the floor was uneven in certain areas and that was kind of like a mystery house.
Speaker 2:Have you ever been to one of those, the mystery houses?
Speaker 1:yeah tourist attractions okay yeah and so like, but then they cram about eight people into this tiny little room, so they've got claustrophobia and it's really hot. And then they've got smoke like that they're pumping in the other.
Speaker 2:I thought it was like. I thought it was like a bar restaurant that you walked through and saw like that's what I thought.
Speaker 1:I thought it was like a 20 minute, like walkthrough. No, it was a three hour excursion oh my god, yeah and so at one point in time, like they bring us into this, like make believe, make makeshift chapel, and they play a live exorcism that happened, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then like you couldn't like leave, you had to go room to room with the same group of people.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, my gosh Experiencing.
Speaker 2:I love you, but I'm almost like glad that I missed it now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Love, almost like glad that I missed it. Now, yeah, love you guys. This sounds intense, yeah it, it can be, and so like we paid for the vip passes too, so like anyways, so anyways. So like, in this room was apparently this box, and this box is where the demon was imprisoned from this exorcism and they had it on display, and that's kind of the flavor of what did you like knock it over and it like fell open, and now you're haunted.
Speaker 2:No, I no, I was already not doing so.
Speaker 1:Hot okay like I was already not doing so hot, like my back was like torqued at this point. But then they were like here's a creepy hole, anybody want to climb through it? Like it's in the side of the hall, like in the side of the building. Like climb through it into the next room and we'll see you there. And I'm like did you have to. You don't have an option it was optional and I was like no like you see into the creepy hole.
Speaker 1:No, it's completely black, like it's and and they said it's black, but they said there's also mirrors in there. I'm like so why is it black then, if there's mirrors? So none of us like they're like two people that went and did it you know.
Speaker 2:anyways they say did you give them? They them, they were fine, they came through like they came through on the other end. It was just a hole like just to you know, it was just a hole, yeah.
Speaker 1:Boo yeah. And so we're like going to rooms and like one of them was like here's the cauldron that Ed Gein like boiled a bunch of people in.
Speaker 2:And I'm like they had it in the building and like I'm like, okay, like we got some, they're making like a sensory experience around these artifacts from real, like that they found that are haunted because just looking at the box with the demon, and it wouldn't be as exciting as listening to the soundtrack of the exorcism.
Speaker 1:All right, I get it exactly and in the meantime, they're pumping different smells into each room, right? So like the smell changes based on where you go, and then the lighting changes and then the floors feel uneven than the temperature changes, and so all of this is happening to you in the meantime, like you had to, like say this like oath, like I understand if I am haunted, that is not, you know, zach Bagans responsibility, like really get you in the mood, you know.
Speaker 1:So all this is happening Right and at this point we're about to go into the demon basement and you had to pay for the VIP passes to get into the demon basement, where they actually did sacrifice children in this basement of this mansion and like all I can see in front of me is like the deep hole into the basement. But above that, all I can see is my logo. It's got my logo. It was like a pair of skeleton hands holding my skeleton logo thing, like I'm like.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's my logo, you know. That's all I could focus on. But my back is so bad that I'm like I tell my wife, I'm like baby, I'm not going to be able to make it Like you're going to have to go without me.
Speaker 1:I've got to go or I'm going to end up in the hospital. Like my legs stopped to work and so I fall out. And at that point they would zag back as they had me on freaking camera falling out, thinking like I passed out or something from possession or something.
Speaker 1:I'm like I'm not doing this and so I told my wife, I'm like baby, I'm, I gotta go she's like well, I want to stay, I'm like you can stay, and so I tell the guy I'm like ma'am, I'm like I need to go out, and she goes. Are you experiencing something?
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:God, no, my back is killing me.
Speaker 2:Don't flatter yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so like I'm staring down, like I had to like kind of talk into her ear and so she was over my shoulder, like so I could because it was really loud, and over her shoulder I'm looking down the long hallway we just came from and I see a full on apparition of a little girl in a big flowy dress with pigtails.
Speaker 2:She's waving at me like this and you're all upset about my hand scratches at the hotel we were sleeping in.
Speaker 1:Is it because it's where you were sleeping and you couldn't get away? Yeah, and I'm like well, obviously and this is the thought process that went through my head Obviously I'm in a scary movie. If I just look away and I look back, it'll be gone. No, she'll be right there.
Speaker 2:So I look away and I look back. It'll be gone, no, she'll be right there.
Speaker 1:So I look away, I look back and she's two feet closer yes, that's exactly what happens in the scary movies.
Speaker 2:You should know that.
Speaker 1:Come on and so by this point my eyes are like this right, and she starts leading me out and they find me a chair and they're like so I heard you, uh, the guard outside. He's like so I heard you experiencing something. And I'm like, no, I asked him. I said hey, is there some shit in that house like some projectors and stuff like that? He's like why did you experience something? I'm like no, my back is killing me, but I may have seen some shit on my way out. I gotta know, is there a projector? And he goes how could they be projected? There's so much smoke in this building from the, from the smoke machines, that like it would show all the rays of the projector. And so I was like so is that is that?
Speaker 1:um, I was like I'm starting to have a crisis at this point and I'm like I saw some shit, like I and you left your wife in there yeah, yeah, I left her there.
Speaker 2:We still love you, though, because she's okay, she made it okay she's, she's just as hot as I am.
Speaker 1:She does all kinds of creepy shit. So like I'm like, oh, so I'm like having an existential crisis. And they call the manager out and they're like, hey, can, would you mind going recording to talk about what you saw? And I was like, no, I'm like there's no way. And they're like, and I was like can you pull the footage so I can see if there was somebody or something there? He goes oh, yeah, you'll see it later. I'm like when's that? And he's like, well, when I pull the footage and I put it all over social media, I'm like great. And so like I'm sitting down here for another half hour and going through this crisis. And and he's like, yeah, so it sounds like um doesn't want to hang out in that hallway.
Speaker 1:She hangs out in this hallway, in this corner. So that's really weird that you saw her there. And I'm like, okay, so the guide comes out eventually, the one that I said, hey, I gotta go. And she, I was like, hey, was there something going on in that hallway? She's like what'd you see? And I'm like, no, you tell me what was going on in that hallway. She's like well, I saw like straight on apparition, like oh, really. I was like, yeah, I was like this looks like this, like this, like this, and and she said it was Tabitha. He was like she was like oh, um, no, actually that was.
Speaker 1:That was, uh, abigail. And Abigail is one of our employees and I was like, wait, what? And she was like, yeah, what'd you see? And I was like little girl, pigtails, big flowy dress, shadow waving at me. She's like, yeah, that was Abigail ushering you, but you didn't want to follow her. You followed me, and so all they're going to see is me on camera tweaking out, thinking I'm seeing a ghost, and all I got is this poor employee trying to help me. And so Abigail comes out and she's four foot five and she's wearing a dress and she's got pigtails, and it's an even better story.
Speaker 1:It's amazing oh my god holy I got scratches on my hand from a real ghost yeah, no, like if I had scratches on me, they were probably self-induced from my own paranoia, like it was that's hilarious. That's hilarious yeah, so I haunted myself at zapp baggins's museum. But for anybody, you get a chance to go to vegas. It is an assault on the senses. It is pretty creepy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sounds like um, like a really well done haunted haunted house like you'd go through halloween.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe just a little bit more well done theatrically so yeah, but I think if you, if you understand who zach baggins is like, if you see his episodes of the tv show and stuff, you can feel that in the house Okay.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like he goes. I have a Zach Bagans impression. He's like I'm talking to the spirits in the house right now, If you can hear me tap on my face like that's what it very much feels like there at the place, Like it feels like Zach Bagans is creation so very theatrical, you know know whether or not that was. They had weird stuff.
Speaker 1:they had like charles manson's, like sock from prison, like weird shit like I guess you get what you can get, right, that's what I'm saying I'm like, like they only had one haunted doll but for whatever reason they had a wall of dolls and the one haunted doll in the middle of the the wall like I'm okay, like you know, but I don't know it was it was a lot of fun. I mean the same thing with you know. Stuff like that. It is fun, you know, even if you get scared, right. I mean, isn't that kind of the point?
Speaker 2:I mean that being scared is the fun part yeah because in theory it's safe, but you can also be scared.
Speaker 1:So or get scratched.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, I didn't know that there was a ghost thing. I just woke up with like what? What happened?
Speaker 1:I didn't have that much to drink last night yeah, well, it always reminds me of like like you see the ghost stories and like it's always like minor stuff, like scratches and stuff like that, or maybe something feels like they got shoved, but like then you, it's like the complete opposite of like, let's say, like the cryptid hunters, where, like they get a picture of bigfoot and it's just taken with a potato and you're like you're telling me with all the technology on the planet and all you got is this blurry blob and that's.
Speaker 2:God bless the bigfoot fans though they're. They're amazing. There's a big bigfoot um convention in ohio at a place called salt fork state park lodge where there's been a lot of sightings. And if you go to the um, the restaurant there, they have bigfoot themed sandwiches and desserts like they have like a big bigfoot cookie in your, in your, like dessert sundae and stuff. But they have a big thing there and they have the best um art fair there because it's all bigfoot encrypted themed crafters, like, so like these little old ladies and guys like who do wood carvings with chainsaws come out of the woods and like have these awesome like bigfoot and mothman, like like art for sale.
Speaker 2:It's like just the most amazing, amazing experience. And then they have these very serious, very like you know, well thought out like people give presentations about bigfoot and where they think that he is and where they think that he's living and the going theory when I was there is that the bigfoot is living in the cave systems and like rural ohio and west virginia and like coming out like grabbing campers or whatever. And I'm like I mean, you mean, you know, if you've seen the Descent.
Speaker 1:I mean you know, oh, my God, Awesome Speaking of the Descent like.
Speaker 2:Not a comedy, by the way. Not a comedy, no, not a comedy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, If you ever find yourself like you know what you should start doing, Spelunking Like who on earth?
Speaker 2:That might be one thing I'm scared of.
Speaker 1:Boom, like head, pop off the pillow, like, yeah, let's go in this cave, let's do this, let's see if we can get stuck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you go to like Mammoth Cave and places like that in Kentucky, they have all these plaques and like stories about the guys because there was like a caving rush and like if you were a poor guy in kentucky and you were trying to cash in on your land, like they would find a hole and like try to discover in the next mammoth cave and half of them like died in there when they got stuck you know, because they were exploring and they're just, I mean, it's a cave there's, it's unpredictable and it's tiny.
Speaker 1:I mean, oh, that just sounds awful terrible that might be my fear right there yeah, a couple of places that I'm just like no you know, like like a couple things that I'm like, no, like, like like the elon musk's neuro implant and I'm like he says, he says it could literally cure paralysis, but you got to inject this microchip into your brain. I'm like, has anybody seen every scary movie out there?
Speaker 2:this is like literally every 80s, like sci-fi movie, like yeah, it never ends well. But it's also like, I mean, if you're desperate and you get to the point where you feel like you have nothing to lose, which is also how these movies go and how these stories go, I mean, I could see how people would say yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why I love horror, because it's like a well-written book or well-created movie. That's horror. It would almost make you say for the characters like, yeah, I'd probably do that too. Yeah, you know Like just probably do that, not even like I would do that too. Yeah, you know, like it just probably do that not even like.
Speaker 2:I would do that like yeah, you just have to understand why they make the choices they make.
Speaker 1:I mean, if it's character driven horror, so yeah and that's, and sometimes that yeah, that's exactly right, and sometimes you don't even need that right.
Speaker 2:You're like you know they're gonna mess up you know they're gonna make a mistake, because they have to well, they have to, or else the movie would be over or the book would be over in five five minutes. The smart people don't make for good movies or books because the good decision and it's over before the horror starts. So they have to make bad decisions to keep the plot going in horror yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so you keep using this word, campy, and keeps coming back to me because I want to talk about your books. How do you write campiness into a book?
Speaker 2:That is a really good question, because it's also the question of, like, how do you write comedy? And this is something that I've talked a lot about with other comedy writers. People think that you're just writing jokes but you're not really writing jokes, think that you're just writing jokes but you're not really writing jokes. The comedy comes from, like, the disconnect between what people think is going to happen versus what actually happens. So I don't think that it's writing jokes. I think that it's writing situations that get, you know that just get more and more ridiculous, and then the character you know is reacting to, you know, the ridiculousness of the situation versus what they expected was going to happen.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so there's gotta be a lot of sarcasm uh, yeah, I'd say so like I.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that's how horror works too. Is that like it's? The horror happens when there's how you think your life is going to go versus how it actually goes, and it goes off the rails, and then comedy is the same. So when you mix those two things together, you can get pretty good story so, and do you put more of a focus on the horror, do you? Um.
Speaker 1:I'm my current series um 24 7.
Speaker 2:Demon mart is definitely more on the comedy than the horror. So there are monsters, but there's always a happy ending. So that's not to say that in the future things will not be more towards the horror. So, but for now it's more towards the comedy.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's the first time I've heard in a long time like this is horror, and there will always be a happy ending.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I write horror with happy ending, and that's where the comedy is.
Speaker 1:So that's interesting, so that that to me tells me like, especially for a lot of folks who are just been burned by horror you know, somebody who's like there may not be, they may be exploring hard and like, yeah, I thought you know, watching a scary movie would be kind of cool and be the type to watch through their fingers type, but then somebody introduces them into something that that is just like not their vein, and so they just like oh, I don't ever want to consider horror ever again.
Speaker 1:Like like I'm, I'm very much a fan of like saw, but I'm not a fan of like hostile, which was like bad saw yeah, I mean, that was just like a torture porn is the subgenre.
Speaker 2:So which is different? Which hey to each his own. You know like, well, there is this meme that went around that I saved because I thought it was genius, and it was like normies versus mutants, mutants being the horror fans like normies and they see horror and they just see one thing and it's one dot that says horror, and then there's the horror fan on the other side who sees horror, and then there's the horror fan on the other side who sees horror and it was like 50 different things and it was all the sub genres. You know, yeah, it was like oh, exploitation, horror comedy, like psychological horror, folk horror, you know those kind of things it's like. If you're a horror fan already, you know that there's infinite flavors of horror and we all have our preferences about what flavors we do and don't like.
Speaker 2:But a lot of people who are not horror fans just think horror and they think of one thing, you know, and they can stop if the first thing they experience is something that you know is not to their liking or makes them uncomfortable, because they don't realize that there's more nuance and there's more out there to horror. There are subgenres they might actually like and, um, you know, when I say horror comedy is an on-ramp for people who who might not otherwise try horror. That's totally been true in my experience. Like a lot of my readers, they don't read horror. I mean, they're reading my stuff. They don't realize they're reading horror. They never would have identified it as horror, but like in their brain they're like oh no, I see horror and I just just I keep going, I move away because I know I'm not interested in that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So, but they still read my stuff. So I get a lot of people that aren't don't consider themselves horror readers, but they are drawn into the story because it's you know, it's lighter and it's funnier and it's you know, it's monsters, but it's fun and there's a happy ending and characters that they can laugh with. But I'm like well you know, I just brought you into horror. You may call it something else, but that's what this is.
Speaker 2:So and it's kind of opened a new world of reading for them, because I'm like well, if you like my stuff, there's these other people that you could try that are also. You know, read on that line, you know that you might like so yeah, I mean, that's and that's always the.
Speaker 1:The conversation I have with people is like I used to be kind of bashful about what I write and and and try to kind of dance around.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean because when people ask you and you can tell by looking them that they're not horror people you know how they're going to react. If they're like oh, what do you write? And they think you're going to say like oh, romance. Or you know mystery, cozy. And you say horror and they're like oh, they get that. Look on their face. You know, we've all been there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's so amazing too, Like if you go to like like I do. I used to do farmer's markets a lot when.
Speaker 1:I had a lot of time and I would have people like I don't read horror, but I love your covers. Can you? Can you talk to me about it? I'm like, if you never, do you not like horror? Or do you, did you not like something horror that you were at experience? And it's normally like there was something I experienced and since then I haven't really liked it. I'm like perfect, my stuff is perfect for you because I'm like I am. I am the every man's horror guy, like I'm the average, like right in the middle, not like not on the extreme end and definitely not on the cozy end. I'm as mainstream as I as I can be to reach the most amount of people, and most people like mainstream horror. What they don't like is to say they don't want to be blindsided by the torture port.
Speaker 1:They don't want to be blindsided by you know, certain certain fears, fears like you have a lot of folks who are like I'll read any book as long as it doesn't have like animal abuse in it and so you know, I mean, I can understand, like trigger words or that sort of thing for trying to find what you're looking for, but like as also from like an author's perspective, like we need to be clear about what, what kind of horror we're writing, like are you and that comes from you know, of course, from the covers that we pick and also about the, the blurbs that we pick.
Speaker 1:But, like there's a responsibility that I feel like I have with with my readers to give them the thing that they asked for and to give them the thing that I promised with the book and the cover of the story and not slip something crazy in there that they're not expecting yeah, definitely, definitely so, like what? What are the promises you make with your writing? Like what do you? That's a hard question, readers I mean really what I?
Speaker 2:I mean, when I started 24 7 demon mart, I just wrote the kind of horror that I like, the kind of monsters that I like, and I thought I was just like a crazy person, like laughing alone in my basement and I was like this is either brilliant or like I'm just really that dumb. So but then when it was out in the world, like people really liked it and responded to it and I was like, oh, so I mean I write the kind of things that I like. I it's kind of like Evil Dead 2, ash versus Evil Dead, you know, kind of mixed in with Clerks, since it's set in like a convenience store. It's like, um, yeah, so I just make sure that people know that it's like you know from the covers and and from the descriptions what kind of story they're going to get, that it's going to be a little bit ridiculous and silly and it's got monsters in it and probably some blood and guts and you know. But it's all going to work out all right in the end. So they're safe with me.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and that's, and that's always fun, I mean it's, it's, it's so fun to say like, I think there's an opportunity for you to fall in love with something you may have fallen out of love with at one point, and so you can yeah, yeah, I think that in the beginning in my mind it was so clearly horror comedy because it was very much like Evil Dead inspired. It was like clear to me but it wasn't clear to the people that were picking it up and reading it, so that was a surprise to me that they weren't horror fans. So I was like, oh okay.
Speaker 1:So where do you find your demographic is Like who? Who's the average person? That are picking these up.
Speaker 2:It depends, like, um, I have people all all over the spectrum and I'm pretty evenly split between um men and women. Um, my readers in ebook are probably like skew, like older, like forties and and up, but my audio and paper readers are probably under 40, a lot of them, particularly audiobooks. Um, which was one of the interesting things about going to live um shows and meeting readers and listeners, which is absolutely amazing like so many young people were listening to the audiobooks, you know. So, yeah, I'm all over the place.
Speaker 1:Like I can't pin it down to like one particular group, so yeah, I mean I find my most of my readers are pretty much 30 to 35 plus women I mean that's generally most of them really I I'm like, I mean I'm probably 50 to 60 percent men.
Speaker 2:So interesting.
Speaker 1:They probably love that comedy element, you know, and and like Shaun of the Dead and, like you said, like Clerks as a reference, like those are very much movies that men would enjoy, you know. So I could see that, you know, and even from the title on 24-7 Demon Martyr, I'm like that does sound like exactly in my head what I would imagine horror comedy to be, and so I'm like yeah, I'd pick something like that up and I'm 33 and I'm a man, so like yeah, so that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd pick something like that up, and I'm 33 and I'm a man, so that's interesting. You're so young, I'm going to pinch your cheeks. You're so young. Yeah, I know I don't sound like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but very cool, very cool.
Speaker 2:I love these types of Well, it's funny you ask about Promises because I wrote like a standalone short story and it was like a granny horror story and it was like a granny horror comedy and it did not have happy ending. Like the main character did not make it to the end, and so many of my existing readers who are like wrote me notes like, really, like, really, she didn't make it to the end, like, really, like she's, she's dead.
Speaker 2:Cause I was like I guess I didn't realize that I was giving you happy endings where everybody makes it to the end, you know, until I didn't, and everybody was like how could you do this today?
Speaker 1:he was like okay, so all right note to self yeah, you talked about granny like this is you only got a couple minutes left, but talk about like, uh, granny, stuff. I've got this story in my head that's based on a, on a single tagline that like I started writing dark fantasy before I was right.
Speaker 1:I was writing horror, but my dark fantasy was so dark but it was like, hey, you gotta write horror um and so like dark fantasy, yeah, yeah, and so like this, this this tagline has been stuck in my head that's grandma's got a battle axe and I'm like we need like a witcher, but like an old lady, it was a granny, yeah but yeah, so that's I'm definitely leaning towards grannies.
Speaker 2:Like I'm sneaking grannies in a lot of my side projects these days, like I'm working on like a christmas um horror comedy for 2025 and I was like all of a sudden the grannies are showing up and I'm like I wasn't in the original plan, but you know yeah, it's not the final girl anymore, so it's the final grannies. Yeah, yeah, they've got it all figured out the grandmas so yeah, oh, very cool.
Speaker 1:Hey, um, denise, we're close on time here. I I really appreciate bringing you on and this has been awesome. It's so much fun to just go back and forth on the things that make horror fun and interesting. Um, so, just real quick, shamelessly, where can people find you?
Speaker 2:Well, 24-7, demon Mart is on Amazon and an audio book on Audible with the amazing Todd Haberkorn, who is an anime actor, as the narrator. My website is dmgaycom, and that's D-M-G-U-A-Y, just because I like to make things complicated and I'm French. So if you Google me, I'm French. So, yeah, so if you Google me, I'm pretty much the only one who shows up.
Speaker 1:So perfect, awesome. 24-7 DMR.
Speaker 2:Got it All right. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for having me on. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been the Nightmare Engine podcast episode. I don't know, but I'm back in the swing of things. I'm signing off for tonight. Next week we'll have another guest and we'll be just moving things along steadily, as always. You can find me at davidvergutscom. I ask you to go to my website, please please do not go to Amazon.
Speaker 1:There you can find Scare Mail and soon to be, the upcoming Scare Mail 2, which has really taken over and revolutionized what horror is and what we can do with good storytelling. So, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your.
