John Ferguson - How to Embody Greatness - Career Club Live - Part 1

As we sit down for a heart-to-heart, John Ferguson, the Chief Human Resources Officer at NASCAR, generously shares his wisdom and passion for creating a people-centric culture in HR. John, originally from Greenville, South Carolina, carries with him a unique perspective on balancing family values with corporate success. Armed with his Stanley Cup championship ring from the Washington Capitals, a WNBA championship ring with the Washington Mystics, and a heart full of family memories, John paints a vivid picture of nurturing growth and a supportive workplace culture. He provokes thought on the role organizations should play not just as workplaces, but as entities that leave a lasting positive impression on their employees.

As the conversation flows, John and I delve into how the perception of loyalty and tenure in the workforce has been evolving and shaping workplace culture. We probe into what truly sets apart organizations that are hailed as great places to work, sparking an intriguing discussion on the characteristics of such companies. We explore the factors that fulfill the needs of an increasingly diverse workforce, touching upon the need for mutual understanding and empathy.

In the final part of our chat, John emphasizes the importance of open and honest communication, empathy, and integrity in the workplace. We dissect the concept of 'hot streaks', and how the growing expectation for instant gratification is influencing the workforce dynamics. John also provides fresh insights on the value of diversity and relationship building to foster understanding and empathy. He wraps up by discussing the essence of creating an inviting environment where everyone feels valued and encouraged to voice their ideas. Join us for this melding of personal and professional wisdom, as we glean insights on fostering a people-centric culture.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I know you're gonna find it. You've got to keep on at it. Hey everybody, this is Bob Goodwin and welcome to another episode of Career Club Live. Today's episode is brought to you by Next Placement, which is Career Club's most recent innovation in the out placement space, where we are helping the whole person, not just a cell on a spreadsheet, by bringing mental wellness and emotional intelligence, coaching, as well as community, to employees who find themselves in transition. If you happen to be watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe like comment and for anybody who happens to be catching this on your favorite podcast platform, reviews and ratings definitely help and, again, you can always subscribe to that as well. I'm really excited about today's guest. I got to meet our guest at the SHIRM conference in June in Las Vegas and John Ferguson, who is the Chief Human Resources Officer at NASCAR, gave a phenomenal talk and he's dynamic, charismatic and the content was better than good. So with that, John, welcome to today's episode.

Speaker 2: 1:14

Hey, hey, bob, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here with you today. I'm here in sunny Daytona Beach, florida, where it is hot. I tell you what it was hot.

Speaker 1: 1:25

Well, I tell you what it was hot, your talk was hot. You did a great job. You were just commanding the stage and I was hanging on every word and I don't always say that at conferences, but you definitely knocked it out of the park. So, before we dive into our topic today about creating a very people-centric culture, what I wanted to do is what we usually do is just a little bit of an icebreaker to help folks get to know you a little bit. So to start off with an easy one where were you born and raised?

Speaker 2: 1:53

I was born in Greenville, South Carolina.

Speaker 1: 1:57

And you were raised there as well.

Speaker 2: 1:58

Well, yeah, I was there until I finished undergrad.

Speaker 1: 2:01

Awesome and well, that'll lead to the next question Where'd you go to undergrad, john Firm and University? Go Paladins, come on, and that sounds like maybe you also have a postgraduate degree.

Speaker 2: 2:11

I do. I do so. When I left Greenville, south Carolina, where Firm is located, I was a poly-side major, so it made sense to go to the nation's capital, and that is what brought me to Washington DC, and that's where I got my MBA at the Howard University.

Speaker 1: 2:25

Come on. And then a little bit about your family, and I mean both your children, but you told a great story about the family that you grew up in, yes, so just roll with that for a minute, please, I will.

Speaker 2: 2:37

I will so. Originally from Greenville, south Carolina, I grew up in a multi-generational household.

Speaker 2: 2:42

I have an older brother we're 12 years apart and then, of course, my mom and my dad they instilled a lot of values in us, but we were able to live with baby boomers, Gen X and you have me as a millennial in the same household, so there's a lot of good life lessons and skills there. When I moved to DC, I met my wife, Dr Yuve Ferguson. She's most recently was a professor at Howard University and we have since grown our family. We have two beautiful daughters.

Speaker 1: 3:10

That is awesome. So you're at NASCAR now. How long have you been there? And just a little bit of your back story, your career arc.

Speaker 2: 3:18

Perfect, Bob. So I've been with NASCAR now for two years It'll be well just shy of two years It'll be two years in September and it has been life in the fast lane. Since I've gotten here Many good pit stops, one of which was the Sherm annual conference where I had the opportunity to present not only to represent myself, but also represent the good stuff that we're doing here at NASCAR. Prior to joining NASCAR, I was in Washington DC. I was there for about 14 years and that was where I started my career with Hyatt hotels, working for Hyatt Regency Washington, and then I left there and went to monumental sports and entertainment. Monumental sports and entertainment is the home of the Washington Wizards, capitals and Mystics. We own a couple of arenas. We had eSports, we had AFL at one point in time.

Speaker 2: 4:03

So, you're wondering. Yes, I have a Stanley Cup championship ring from the Washington capitals and I also have a WNBA championship ring with the Mystics won the championship in 2019. So my sports career has been full of excitement and fun. I'm excited to be here with NASCAR today, specifically because we're celebrating 75 years of driving in the fast lane.

Speaker 1: 4:25

Wow, well, congratulations. You've obviously already had a great career and you're just getting started, so it's exciting to watch. And then just a little bit what do you know? You said you have two daughters. What do you like to do when, when you're not at work?

Speaker 2: 4:38

Oh, when I'm not at work, you know, sometimes I like to sit down and be quiet, but I will say we spent a lot of time outside. You know Florida, you get generally good weather year round, so going to the pool, I've recently picked up the hobby of fishing More than I ever did, so I like to go get some live bait and go fish by the, the lake this in our neighborhood and just have a good time. So for me it's really about just some downtime, because work can be demanding, travel can be demanding, so when I do have moments to step away, I want to make sure that a I'm present with my family and present with my two daughters, but also just creating lifelong memories as a family.

Speaker 1: 5:19

You know that that's a legacy right there, isn't it like that? That's what people you're really values those memories. So, yes, yes and then.

Speaker 2: 5:28

You look up, one day your kids don't want to hang out with you anymore. I read a study the other day that said the first ten years of your kids life, you are they best, you are their best friend. And after that you know they started getting interested or outside the home and and other people, and so I want to make sure I capitalize on that moment.

Speaker 1: 5:44

No, as a father of four, I can assure you you're doing the right thing, and I heard a Pastor friend of mine say one time the way kids spell love is T, I, m, e. And so you're doing it. I like that, I'm taking that. That's a good one, isn't it? So Just kind of dive into our topic. You've got a very high profile, very cool job with NASCAR in HR. You said that you had started with Hyatt and then went on to monumental. But what kind of led you into just your career in HR? Why, why HR?

Speaker 2: 6:17

I'll tell you, bob, I fell into HR. As I said earlier, I was a poly-side major, so try to make this quick. I moved to DC out of undergrad with no job. I had some connections on Capitol Hill, thinking I was gonna land something in politics. One of that came to happen and I met someone that lived in my apartment building that worked for Hyatt. He's like hey, they have some open positions. If you want a referral, you know, let me know. At that time it's like hospitality hotels, like not. I just know I don't see the fit.

Speaker 2: 6:45

But when you get a bunch of knows back to back, you're like, hey, you said you could. And so, long story short, I went in for one position that they that they were like you're overqualified for that one, rightfully so they knew, having a college degree, I wasn't gonna stay in a sort of convention setup position. But I said, hey. Actually, the night before I Came up for the interview I was doing my research and I applied for the HR coordinator job. You know like, oh, you'd be interested. And so long behold, bob. They said, well, can you hang around a little bit? I hung around all day because I was unemployed, so I had time. And long story short, a week later they offered me my first full-time job in HR and I never looked back from there well, but okay.

Speaker 1: 7:24

So that's interesting because you know, I think a lot of times we do just sort of Fall into things, like like, life happens and we don't get to orchestrate how everything happens all the time. What was it that kept you in HR? It's one thing to fall into, it's something else to stay in it and really develop as a professional, as you have. But what would kept you in it?

Speaker 2: 7:43

That's a good question, um. So I would say for me, I think about the transferable skills that I have been building throughout all of my academic career, even my undergraduate career, that led to that Um, and I think transferable skills are the things that we all should think about, like it may sound like it's very Regimented in this one lane, but so much of what we do can apply to other areas. So I was a student council person all throughout school, starting in elementary school senior. I was a student body president in high school. When I got to college I was still in these various organizations and leadership roles and when I think about the core function of HR Guess what you are, you're always in the note. And so when I think about being a student government, student council, we were always in the know as student advocates and speaking on behalf of the student population.

Speaker 2: 8:27

So when I got there, did I initially recognize that? No. But once I got into the HRC and started realizing how it incorporates and helps elevate an organization, I said, okay, I kind of like this. This is sort of following that pattern of leading and partnering and coaching and helping people, and I think there's a similarly similarity in that into politics, because you're trying to represent, advocate on their behalf, and so that that was the transferable skills that I was able to connect the dots Um, I will say I did look at, I did peek out the window once.

Speaker 2: 9:01

I thought I wanted to pursue sort of sales or revenue generating function, and there may still be that desire there. But what I really found was a good sweet spot was in HR. But this also there's a lot of selling that happens in HR because I'm trying to help sell the new policies that we should get Through. I'm trying to help promote our engagement survey, whatever that looks like. So it's all about engaging Helping people see something special in themselves, helping them identify how the organization can help them achieve that outcome, and then how can we partner and move forward.

Speaker 1: 9:33

So it's funny. First of all as a seller, a professional salesperson, sales leader, yay. But there's a great book you probably already know this one by dan pink, called to sell as human.

Speaker 1: 9:45

Oh, and I'm sure they've got you. Oh, dan Pink is amazing. He's written a bunch of New York Times best sellers. But to sell is human and it's all about persuasion. Whether you're the father of two daughters and I know that you shared that they've got very different personalities and what motivates them is very different, but you need to be tuned into that. You serve as the glue in a lot of ways. In your organization there's multiple constituents and being able to sell, persuade your ideas. We're always selling. That is just the nature of the beast, particularly when you're in a leadership role.

Speaker 2: 10:25

No, you're exactly right.

Speaker 2: 10:26

I'll tell you a crash course that I had in selling Many people don't know that probably my first three years out of undergrad I waited tables. That was my part-time job, but that is selling at its most basic level and customer service at its most basic level. But those are some skill sets that have carried me far in my career, because you learn how to read a room just like you learn how to read a table. You typically have three approaches. As a server, you have some that they want you to be a part of their dining experience. They want to be your friend. You have some that are like no, we want you to just do your job and stay out of our way. Then you have the families that come in. They want a combination of that because they're trying to be efficient with their time. They're like I got two screaming toddlers. We want to go ahead and place the whole order right now. Can you bring the check?

Speaker 1: 11:13

No, it's funny. I waited tables for three or four years in college also. I think everybody should have to wait tables for a while or work in a hotel or do something that's very general public facing, for sure. That's great. Those are awesome insights. I wanted to start to bridge our conversation into what you were sharing at SHRM in terms of building a great place to work and a great place to be from, even that high level. What do you mean by those two things?

Speaker 2: 11:48

What do I mean by that? That came to mind for me when I left my last organization. I was at monumental sports entertainment for just a decade. That was home for me, I like to tell folks. When I started there I had hair, I was single and I didn't have kids. I left, I was bald, I was married and I had a family, a growing family.

Speaker 2: 12:09

When it came time to those last couple of days, I started just reflecting on what the organization meant to me and how. I was a firm believer that where I was going next in my career was a byproduct of the belief they had in me, the opportunities that were presented to me at monumental to lead and grow. I said this has been a great place to work, but also a great place to be from. What do I mean by that? A great place to work is an organization that pours into you while you're there, one that you're excited to go to work, one that you're engaged in, one that helps you follow your success path. Then, when it's a great place to be from, it's an organization that was a springboard for your career. I'm a firm believer. Sometimes to grow we have to go.

Speaker 1: 12:55

That is a great expression, by the way. Sometimes to grow we have to go.

Speaker 2: 13:01

Yes and so, and I think sometimes, when you hear someone leaving an organization, like, oh, what happened? That's not the case. They were great to me, we were great for each other, but we all know that the next level for me needed to be elsewhere, and so they were supportive through that transition, and so we were able to partner in that, and when you think about those organizations just like today I'm talking about monumental sports entertainment they were a great place to be from.

Speaker 2: 13:24

So I would encourage anywhere that I have worked typically has been that, but as long as I'm in the seat of leading the culture of being a leader in HR, that is what I want those organizations to be known for. It's a great place to work, but also a great place to be from.

Speaker 1: 13:40

Yeah, and we'll probably jump around here just a little bit, but you know, this notion of our relationship exists beyond your dates of employment. You know that's a very big and it seems to be you're kind of a bit more of a radical idea. That it's sort of like you know well, you worked here you're not getting a W2 from us anymore. Therefore, we don't have a relationship.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Steve Cattigan, who's somebody that we had on, was LinkedIn's first CHRO and, using sports since we're done at sports today he made the metaphor basically of college basketball and it used to be, and he used the example of Coach K, where you come to Duke University and you're going to be part of Duke and get great education, blah, blah, blah. And then John Calipari in UK come along and John Wall and it becomes this one and done, right, I'm just trying to turn 19. That's all I'm really trying to do is turn 19, get a little bit better so I can get drafted as high as I can get drafted by the NBA. And so the value proposition changed. You know and Coach K wasn't advocating for that it took him a while to come around to it, but basically he changed his value proposition that we're going to help you become the best version of you as you launch into this next phase of your career, because we know you're not going to be here forever and that's okay.

Speaker 2: 15:10

I agree, I agree. And so when you say those things, it's also when you think about the generational mix in the workforce. Today, I think we always heard like retention, retention, retention, like people need to stay here forever, that those days are going out the door now, because when you look at who's in the workplace and who's emerging in the workplace, their view of tenure, their view of long I don't really want to use the word loyalty, but just being somewhere for a long amount of time- is not the same as it once was.

Speaker 2: 15:41

And so my perspective is we want you to be here for a good time, but as long as it's good for you and if we've been a place to be from and a great place to work.

Speaker 2: 15:50

Then everybody's gotten what they needed out of that equation. You were here, we poured into your toolkit, you were able to elevate, we got you to the next, to next level and now you're springboarding from here to something else. And that's what everybody wants in their career. You don't want to feel stagnant. You want to know that you can go somewhere, you can take those transferable skills and you can continue to add value.

Speaker 1: 16:10

So, so and again, I we had talked earlier, like I'm not trying to get you to give away all of your presentation from Charm exactly, but some things that you're sharing in terms of quality or attributes of great companies to work at and great cultures to be a part of. How do you, how would you describe some of those things? Well, what are the characteristics or the hallmarks of great companies to work at?

Speaker 2: 16:34

I think let me sit with that one for a second. I think great companies are the ones that inspire you. I think you have a leader there that that ignites something in you that you want to do more and it's not that they're, it's not being forced like you naturally want to do more, like I believe in this mission. I believe in this leadership. I understand how my work and my role ties into the goals and objectives and the KPIs for the organization, but I also think it's one where you can see the impact of your work. It's not like, hey, I'm just over here tucked in the corner and I shared it over here and I never heard anything else about it. I think it's the organizations that that shine a light on their employees and let them know that hey, you're, you are seeing her in value, that we appreciate you. Here at NASCAR, we're all about nurturing a people first company culture. So I want to make sure that whenever we're making any decision, let's pause and let's think about who's impacting and what is the people aspect here, because sometimes we can get so caught up in the bottom line that maybe we're not taking care of the people.

Speaker 2: 17:44

I think another good attribute of organization is communication. I think all all relationships have roadblocks or tripwires around communication, and that's personal and professional. And so I think if we slow down and let's say, let's revisit that or let's make sure we're not going too fast here, who do we need to communicate to? What do we need to communicate? And then what questions might they have?

Speaker 2: 18:09

I think a good communication is typically one that has very few questions, because you got it, you got all of it in there in the first pass. But even when you may have missed something, you are caught so off guard by the question that comes. You're like oh wow, that's a great perspective, bob, thank you for sharing. That's something either we have an answer for or that's something that we should consider. Let us get back to you. So, when I think about those moments, that is what stands out for a good organization to work for, and I think you also need to make sure that in general, you are aligned with sort of the morals and beliefs of that. Yes, because sometimes you can come in and maybe that's just not your organization. That doesn't mean that it may be a bad place, that's just not your organization.

Speaker 1: 18:50

I really appreciate you saying that. Our mutual friend, johnny Taylor Jr from SHRM we did a podcast a couple of weeks ago and that was we were talking about empathetic leadership and he made the exact point you just made very well, which is that it's not even that it's a good culture, a bad culture. It's just not a fit for me and that's okay because you're still like at 9 million other companies I can go work at and that's cool. So it works for some people. It doesn't work for others and it's not really a right or wrong, except for that last bit that you said.

Speaker 1: 19:22

You're kind of around integrity, right. You're kind of a moral compass that a company needs to have. But you know some leadership styles and things like that. Elon Musk may not fit everybody, right. You know, wanting to be insanely intense or whatever his expression is, that's cool. Some people love working at Twitter and Tesla and SpaceX and good on them, and for other people that doesn't fit them. So I just wanted to amplify the point that you were making. It's not good or bad, it just is, does it?

Speaker 2: 19:51

fit me, yes, and I think sometimes I think other gen, I would say my parents' generation or at least the guidance I got as growing up was like you know, you get a job, you stay there. But I think sometimes when you stay somewhere, when you know that it's not aligned with who you are or it's not allowing you to walk in your success path, you stay and you become toxic, you become complacent, you become frustrated, and I think that has greater impact throughout the organization than just saying you know what? My time has come here. This has been fun, but I'm ready for the next stop. Yeah, and we all have to have that perspective that we are in the drivers of our career development. And so make sure that you sit still long enough to recognize.

Speaker 2: 20:32

Maybe it's time for me to venture out from here, because in my or my needs being met, essentially we all want our needs met and sometimes we recognize they're no longer being met. But there's a door open right over here to saying, hey, bob, come over here, we got all the needs, we got everything you want. But sometimes, depending on how we were raised, where we're from just our perspective and our mental state, we're like, no, I got to stay right here. I want to make sure that people know that you look to your left, you look to your right, you look up, you look down, because there could be a multitude of opportunities and open doors that you aren't paying attention to.

Speaker 1: 21:07

You know, you make me think about a few things. One is A players want to continue to get better.

Speaker 1: 21:12

Right, that's a fact, and if I can continue to get better here and I like the culture and the values and what we do and all those things are meaningful to me, awesome, I'm probably going to stay and not even necessarily leave for more money, because money's not always the only driver. But also, if you've got A players and you're watching A players leave, it's like okay, well, what do we need to learn where their needs not being met? If we can meet them, if there's a thread that runs through that, then there's a great innovation opportunity to bring more assets to the party that these people that we really value and don't begrudge. Moving on, but it is on us. If we could be providing those, are we, and if we're not, why not? Right? So there's a learning even in that that. What can we be doing better?

Speaker 2: 22:05

There's another article I read a year or so ago. I talked about hot streaks in your career, and I think that's something that, when we look at the emerging generation, so millennials, gen Z everything that we do now with the advancement of technology is at a faster pace. When I was young, we had a set of encyclopedias. Why do I not even know what a set of encyclopedias are? They're like who? Why did you buy all the same books? No, each one is different and so. But when you think about that pace and that cadence that technology has gotten us, I think that also doubles back and ties into the notion that these generations, the emerging generation, is going to have shorter tenures. They're moving at a faster pace, information is moving faster. So a hot streak in their career doesn't mean you know, back in the day I was sitting here at a manager for 10 years I'm good. No, they want to see sort of that instant gratification how is my work contributing, how is it allowing me to elevate, and what does that elevation look like? It may not always be entitled, but there was a stretch assignment, there was additional scope, and so how do we meet those employees where they are? So the hot streak is, sometimes you got to strike while it's hot, and so that made me and I go to this next opportunity.

Speaker 2: 23:23

But then I think when, when people leave, it creates room for growth for other people in that pipeline. And when I think about sports, I think we typically have here, I think, more than other places you have people that are so committed to the sport or so committed to the team and loyalty, because they've always wanted that role, they've always wanted to be a part of the organization. So when they get there, they're like I am parked, and so they grow, they're successful, but they get here. But guess what? There's a pipeline of people, there's a backlog. They're not leaving because they, like this is the job I've won. I wanted to be the general manager here since I was two so they're not leaving. So that means there's nowhere else for someone else to grow. And so then those are the notions that comes. I think it's. I think it. The hot streaks of shorter 10 years will allow us to cycle through to keep up with the cadence and timing that we're seeing accelerated with technology and digital communication, social media, etc.

Speaker 1: 24:20

Yeah, I heard somebody say the other day like today is the slowest it's ever going to be, tomorrow's going to be faster than today, and so on and so on. And today is as slow as it's going to get. And, as you say, young people are digitally native. All this stuff is like the only thing they've ever known. They don't know about the World Book Encyclopedia no, watch the podcast Not at all.

Speaker 1: 24:43

Oh, it's funny, but I want to kind of mix A couple of three ideas here and let you respond. You talked earlier about great companies are really good at communication, so that's a big thing. We've been talking a bit about multi-generational kinds of things and people come in at it differently. And then I want to kind of weave in DEI, because the problem with diversity is you get diversity. So in this one example, we're talking age groups as one form of diversity, and there's a bunch of others that aren't all demographic, which is that's an easy one to pick on is we're not always going to agree. The problem with diversity is you get diversity, and then the follow on to diversity is inclusion, and so I want my voice to be heard. I want to actually be part of the conversation, not a checkbox on somebody's. Do we have so many of these and so many of those? So, thinking about communication, thinking about culture, thinking about diversity, how do you foster an environment that encourages communication without it getting shrill, mean-spirited, polarized? Do you know where I'm going?

Speaker 2: 26:02

So, Bob, you know what you got to do there. You got to get to know your people, and that's where I'm going to say you got to lower the water line and that is where before. So the thing is, when you bring diversity together because it's so diverse and they don't have the same lived experiences, the same upbringing, same cultural norms everyone is starting from ground zero. So, Bob, you and I have had a couple of conversations now. We would not start at the same place at our first conversation, at our fifth conversation. So when you have diversity, you have to really be intentional with making sure that we get to know each other, understand your perspective, and I think the best way to do that is to lower the water line. So one example of that is when you meet someone new, be open about yourself. If you're a new leader, be open about yourself and share. Because guess what? At surface level we may think we have very little in common.

Speaker 1: 26:53

But once we get to talking.

Speaker 2: 26:55

You have kids, I have kids, you do this, I do that. We both waited at tables. I mean the things that we've learned today. So when we get into a decision-making process, you have greater understanding, greater empathy and will allow and will have greater grace from our perspective and be open to it. I think often you have to know this.

Speaker 2: 27:14

So diverse teams typically have a harder time getting out of the gate, but once they've got that chemistry together, they're shooting for the stars. Homogeneous teams they hit the ground running, but they don't have the diversity and thought that allows them to elevate to a new level so they can take off and keep a gradual incline. The diverse group might be maybe slow here because they're trying to figure out the rhythm, the harmony, but once they get it, they're taking off like a rocket. And so you have to think about the stages of group dynamics. You're forming, storming, norming, et cetera. You're going to spend more time forming and possibly storming as a diverse group than one that's homogeneous. So I think there's a lot there, but it's really about building relationships, lowering the water line on yourself, be transparent, get to know people, ask them something about life that's not work-related, and then listen and observe and be open to other perspectives.

Speaker 2: 28:12

Because I was just sitting here talking with my colleague, chandler, and we were sharing about how do you get to know people, what are the different perspectives, et cetera. But also I asked her. I said do you feel that you can contribute to what's happening here? So Chandler's our intern and she was like yes, and she said I'm not sure if I would have always felt that way, but you all have always asked me what was my thought, what was my opinion?

Speaker 2: 28:35

Yes, and that was good feedback for me, because in that moment we know that sometimes you need to open the door for that. But there are some people who never get asked that question. And so are you asking that question of everyone that's around that decision-making table, or is it one person that's dictating the conversation and you have a bunch of head nodding? You should ask the question hey, what are your thoughts here? Especially if it's a diverse group, what are your thoughts here? Because we're all going to come to the table with something slightly different and I think once we get all that nuance and the differences covered, we're going to give you the best recipe.