Sean Rugless - Multicultural Marketing - Part 2

Ever wonder why diversity in business is more than just a buzzword? In our latest podcast episode, we dig deep into the world of multicultural marketing and how it drives growth and innovation. We unwind the complexities of preparing a brand for multicultural marketing, stressing the essentiality of understanding different consumer segments and their relationship with your brand. Joining us is Sean, who underlines how investing in diverse talent within an organization can help decode these consumer groups better and build more compelling engagements.

Does your brand have what it takes to play the long game in multicultural marketing? We examine the need for strategic commitments when engaging diverse consumers and highlight the potential ramifications for brands that fail to honor such commitments. We also shed light on how inclusion, rather than mere diversity, is the real goal line for achieving tangible growth. As our chat with Sean progresses, we delve into how a diverse and inclusive workplace can be a hotbed for innovation, challenging assumptions, and broadening perspectives.

Mentorship and innovation take center stage as we wrap things up. Sean shares his Career Club platform experience, emphasizing how a good mentor can accelerate the pace of change and impact. We explore the criticality of creating an environment where diverse talent can thrive, and challenge assumptions to innovate. Sean encourages listeners to join the Catalyst Group to hone their multicultural marketing skills. Tune in and discover how understanding cultural context and creating an inclusive environment can be game-changers in your journey towards successful multicultural marketing and business diversity.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I think that is such a great example. It's one that everybody understands toothpaste. You rattle off the three main benefits of toothpaste, like yep, and you're right. What lack of, or cavity prevention means to me versus what that might mean to somebody else, or white teeth, or fresh breath. I think that's really a good example. And then how do you go and live the brand out in the context that that consumer segment appreciates that benefit?

Speaker 2: 0:27

Yeah, and so, within the model that we were talking about, the tool that I introduced to brands and to agencies, that I want to understand whether or not you've invested in that research to understand those nuances. Those nuances aren't available to you and I don't see that you've invested to understand that white teeth and fresh breath project to images. Then it helps me understand that your level of readiness to engage certain consumers may not be there, and so I think that a lot of times, I don't see that brands are resistant to multicultural marketing and agencies aren't resistant to it. They just don't understand the how, and so what we try to do is provide a footprint and a roadmap for how to get there, and so I love your question, which was hey, what are the different stops that a brand has to take to get there?

Speaker 2: 1:12

Our conversation about the benefits of toothpaste is exactly a prime example Dyssecting it, understanding what your brand benefit is and saying is that elastic enough to appeal to a different consumer segment and if the answer is yep, we've done the work and our research to understand these consumers better and our brand proposition seems to be in a territory that resonates with them. Your level of readiness is higher than someone who hasn't yet done the work to understand whether or not fresh breath and white teeth is tied to image. For African-American or Hispanic, in which image is hugely important because of just how people flow through the US, it's a positive image, reinforces and does so much for some consumers that they're willing to invest that. So we're looking at whether or not your process is your approaches. Uncover that for you so that the brand can use that to grow the business.

Speaker 1: 2:07

Yeah, well, and again, what I love so much about what you're doing is it's very database. It's very insights-based, which is a lot of my history, so I really love all that stuff. One of the pieces of brand readiness, though, that you talked about was the team's readiness, and so what's used that as a segue into the second chunky piece of this that I think you really offer a very valuable perspective on. So the understanding here is that if we're going to really understand some of these segments of the market that represent a lot of brand growth for us, we need to understand the cultural context in which those consumers live. It's very hard to do if we don't have people on our team that can identify. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 2:58

That's correct. So one of the things that I talk about in the context of why this isn't just a DEI initiative and why this is a business imperative is the first thing I look at and I'm going to revisit something, and it goes back to your talent discussion. The first thing that our monitor looks at is whether or not you're investing behind the opportunity, and if you're not, then you don't have the building block in place to be successful in multicultural marketing and you may not have the building block in place to create an environment for those who have that type of insight to stay with your company. So here's what I mean by that Understanding that household penetration and share opportunity leads to whether or not you have a share opportunity or a growth opportunity correct. And identifying that growth opportunity leads to an increased multicart for budget right, which then leads to an increase in diverse talent, because you want people in your organization that have the mindsets, the insights and share the same space as the people you want to market to. So you increase your diverse talent, which leads to an increase in diverse creatives Because, remember, we have to manifest those insights into compelling creative ideas, which then leads to diverse producers and creators, and then diverse commercials, advertising and everything else, and so the reason I say that the first stop is to do the business analysis is we just don't recommend just hiring people because they're diverse, because what we're ignoring is what is the skill sets and capabilities that they would bring to your business.

Speaker 2: 4:28

I love the fact that if you were to do this analysis and unlock that, we have a $100 million to $500 million opportunity just by resonating with a set of consumers, and then I can get someone who represents or has a close proximity to that consumer group in my company and better, in my processes. And research shows from Deloitte and everyone else that the more diverse your company is, particularly in the areas of leadership, your growth is much faster than a company that lacks diversity. So we got all these data points, but my part here simply is that a lot of this is intricately tied to the level of diverse talent that you have in your organizations, and one of your best strategies for multicultural marketing or business growth is to get the diverse level of thinking in, and so for me, that's the connection. The next is hey, if we want to win among a consumer group, then we probably need to get more people that have a close proximity, that have mindsets that are very similar, that can help us decode, understand and engage the consumers in which we wish to.

Speaker 1: 5:36

Yeah, but let me build on that. I'm sorry because you're making such an important point and we do a separate podcast called the Work Wire with the CEO President, ceo of SHRM, which is the largest HR professional association in the world, johnny Taylor Jr and I do one called the Work Wire and what I've learned from Johnny is that people thought that diversity was the goal. Well, we just need more people. We come from a diverse background. And he's like no, that was sort of the kickoff. The goal line is inclusion, yes, and so we could hire people on the brand team, as an example, or the agency, wherever, that are diverse.

Speaker 1: 6:20

So I checked the box, right, you know, we got one of those and one of those and two of those. It's like yay. It's like but wait a minute, do they really have a voice? Are they able to actually influence how decisions get made? Are they able to influence the actions that we actually take? Are they able to push us to do things that are outside of general America? Because that's what I'm comfortable doing. I understand that. I've done it for 25, 30 years of doing general America and now I've got this the problem with diversity as you get diversity, you get people that don't think like you, that don't have the same life Experiences that you do, that don't have all the same cultural context that you do. What is a given for one person is, like, majorly not a given for another person. And so you know, diversity yes, but it's got to include inclusion, or it's just sort of demographic box-checking.

Speaker 2: 7:18

Yeah, and I think for me it's about can so are you positioning someone to make a substantive contribution to what needs to happen for the business, right? You know, the sad part is the good and the bad is that since 2020 Happened, we saw a 50% increase in the number of diverse senior leaders right, particularly in the area of CDOs, to achieve diversity officers and things of that nature. Fast forward to two years later 50% of those people are gone.

Speaker 2: 7:50

Yeah which means that what we have was performative inclusion or performative diversity, and or or some individuals were or invited to occupy positions that their skill set and a capability, their experiences didn't satisfy, right, or the company shifted its position and said that we're going to get a little bit, we're going to go back and be a little bit more conservative around this topic and, in either case, the thing that wins the best in that is to make sure that we are Identifying individuals that can make a substantive contribution to the business right and giving them the environments in the context of resources. They need to be effective, period.

Speaker 2: 8:36

And that's the job of a video organization. The organization's job isn't just to bring people in the, the or. The duty of the organization is to provide one to the resource. Provide them with the resources to be effective.

Speaker 2: 8:46

Yes and so it's. So let's go back to multicultural marketing. Just hiring diverse people to manage multicultural marketing is not what I'm recommending, Because we don't do that analysis and there's no budget, then whatever idea that they come up with, it's underfunded, which means it will underperform, and then the ROI that everybody's counting on won't be there because we had a marginal investment right. And it creates a cycle that if you're not a student, the company will say hey, we tried this.

Speaker 2: 9:16

We tried that it didn't work. And it didn't work and we hired a diverse individual to manage it. Now, that did nothing for that diverse individual's track record, their performance or anything, and so my piece comes in to saying it's a marriage. Right, it's a marriage between an individual with the footprint, experience and the capabilities to effectively do the job and an organization's responsibility to provide him or her with the resources, capability in the pathway to be as effective as they can.

Speaker 1: 9:45

Okay, I'm going to throw you the world's slowest pitch. I'm going to watch you hit it 500 feet. We've brought in diverse people. We are giving them the opportunity, resources to impact the business. Should there be DEI, diversity, multicultural benchmarks, metrics, kpis that we should be looking at for these folks to see if, in fact, they're making a difference.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Absolutely, and reason is what gets measured gets done right If you introduce any. Here's a funny part about diversity, equity, including what I was talking about before. It's not about establishing a utopia right If you're in a utopia?

Speaker 1: 10:33

you're not measuring anything.

Speaker 2: 10:34

It's just the goodwill and the right thing to do right. Business strategy is always measured, which it's bewildering to me how we would introduce multicultural, diverse, equity and inclusive concepts but then have no measurement tied to them. And without the measurement they're the first things to get cut because there's no performative outcome that always measured to say whether or not this was working or not. So I think that if the growth strategy of a company is going to lie in the context of the diversity, equity and inclusive efforts, it should have KPIs right. And the other part is and Bobby bring up a good point I think it's unfair to expect someone to be a Jackie Robinson and hit a home run their first time at Play. What I mean by that is just because we brought someone that thinks differently, looks differently and acts differently in our organization, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to then come to the home plate and automatically hit a home run.

Speaker 2: 11:34

I think that when we start to talk about, even when we recruit non-diverse people, some individuals have what is called a pilot period in which they're able to then innovate, explore, experiment with what works, and then, when we figure out what works, then we propel that, and so if the mindset is, we bring in a diverse person and all of a sudden things are going to change, but yet we have a behavior and a common practice that says, hey for other people, we allow them to explore, experiment, and then we get to something and launch.

Speaker 2: 12:07

Then, to your point, we just didn't set that person up or our organization up for success. So, to answer your question, what gets measured gets done, and so if this is a business strategy, it should have KPIs and those type of things. But at the same time, in establishing those measurements into performance metrics, we also have to have a certain level of reasonableness with it. It should have some level of reasonableness such that we're making sure that it has direct ties to what it is we're here to do, direct ties to growing our business and we're giving enough space to evolve and solve.

Speaker 1: 12:41

No, I think that's a great point that you're making. Innovation needs some room to breathe and to learn, to make some mistakes, to figure out some things. But don't let me put words in your mouth. What gets?

Speaker 1: 12:57

measured gets done, but the KPIs are still the KPIs of the business. Remember, this isn't about utopia, it's not about it's the right thing, it's not virtue signaling to whoever's paying attention to that. No, the business case was this is going to grow our business. Are these efforts generating the result that we hoped? And I think you say, with a small asterisk because we're doing something new and different it's probably not going to be purely linear until we figure out how that works here Exactly.

Speaker 2: 13:35

Yep, that's exactly right, you know. The thing I would share with you is we have a habit, when we talk about a DE&I or diversity that we want to fly, we identify the one successful case study and said we did it Right, and then all the effort goes away. And so the second asterisk next to that is let's not be episodic with it. Yes, let's make sure that we're talking about a sustainable approach that grows our business over time, but we also should be in terms of those KPIs. We should also be evaluating whether or not we're adequately investing behind our growth opportunity. Yeah, Right.

Speaker 2: 14:14

So I think, you bring up a. I think it's a really good. It's a really good conversation we're having and it's one of the components that drive strong business outcomes, particularly for multicultural market.

Speaker 1: 14:24

Yeah, Okay, so I'm looking at the clock here a little bit. I'll be mindful of your time, and we could go on for two more hours. Is there anything that we haven't talked about? Before I change topics here for half a second, is there anything, sean, that we haven't covered that you think would be really important for listeners to understand?

Speaker 2: 14:43

Yeah, I think the last thing I would probably say is on this piece is we have to begin to explore the willingness to both target and engage diverse consumers, as well as target and engage diverse talent and bring in those in our organizations. And here's what I mean. One of the things that we're seeing right now, from 2020 to now, was the fact that after George Floyd happened, then everyone began to look at their moral compass, and then what we saw was a flood of investment towards things that are considered to be episodic, right, and so there were things that probably were on the shelves for everybody for years, but never got activated. So let's put it up and put it out there. And what I told my group was that we would have 36 months before interest begins to sway and this goes away.

Speaker 2: 15:39

So the first year is, hey, we're going to invest in trying to amplify. The second year is we're going to re up. And then the third year, we're going to sit there and say, well, what's the ROI? And start applying these different things to it, and then let that be the business case for us to fall back. And so what we're witnessing right now, particularly in marketing, is that a lot of companies are calling the question in terms of whether or not they're really, really positioned to lean forward to win with this consumer base, or are they going to adopt a level of conservatism because we're now starting to see people weaponize inclusive efforts? We're starting to see, as someone says I want to focus my marketing efforts and budgets against this winning up with the Hispanic consumer. There are other people that says you're not inclusive of us and so therefore it's a zero sum game.

Speaker 2: 16:31

Come on, sean, it's a zero sum game. But now what I'm starting to experience in multicultural marketing is, you know, some corporations and some brands walking back their commitments, and so what we have to begin to start thinking about is hey, what is the most effective and safe way for brands to continue to engage in this engagement where their growth lies? But I'm starting to see that some brands are willing to compromise growth because they don't know how to proceed and they don't want to be the next Bud Light, the next you made such a good point.

Speaker 1: 17:05

We did a different podcast on the decline of chief diversity officers and the pattern that you identified is the exact same thing. And in the, the learning for me was because those seeds were planted in rocky soil, it wasn't strategic, it was like you were episodic, opportunistic, whatever the right word is. It wasn't strategic is what it wasn't. And so, as you said, ok, year one, we'll just put it out there. Year two Well, let's start. We have no year over year data, so we need to kind of have a second year to see what's happening. And then the third year.

Speaker 1: 17:41

People press the pause button and one time out Like, like that was born, not the way that it should have been born. So it's which reevaluate. And then to your point unfortunately, some people are just retreating back to what's comfortable. The spotlight is off the issue. You know, hey, if I got to write another check to another organization, you know I'll do it. But yeah, anyway, can we go back to the way business was before? Because that I understand. So it's a really, really good point. And we talked about integrated marketing. Sometimes you are going like full supply chain on integrated marketing.

Speaker 1: 18:20

Right, and I think that you know what's going to end up happening you heard it here first is there's going to be smart companies that are playing a longer game.

Speaker 2: 18:30

Yes.

Speaker 1: 18:31

Who understand exactly what you're talking about. They're going to have outsized gains. By the way, who's kicking Bud Light's tail in the beer market? Madeleine, madeleine was the big winner in this Right. So you know, people are going to start to pay attention to the numbers and they're going to rule the fact that they quit too soon, that they weren't committed, they didn't persevere, yeah, and then they're just that much further behind.

Speaker 1: 18:57

Well, somebody else not only has the numbers, they have the momentum and they've got the organizational knowledge of how to really with the playbook looks like.

Speaker 2: 19:07

But, bob, I want to, I want to tap in, because the name of this show has a lot to do with career. Yes, think about. Think about if you are a diverse person inside that company that quit. You know you're a diverse person inside that company that quit. What does that signal to a high performing multi-coach?

Speaker 1: 19:22

This is not the company for me. I gotta leave, right.

Speaker 2: 19:26

So the commitment that you made just 36 months ago isn't the same thing that you're doing now. So you got performative inclusion. If that becomes part of your culture, then your ability to retain top talent begins to suffer. So what I'm leaving you with is the fact that we're now in a season, and, because of the brands and the companies that we worked with, our platform has identified that there's conservatism returning.

Speaker 2: 19:57

People are willing to compromise brand growth opportunities to kind of stay safe in their minds, and by walking back their commitments, they're doing two things.

Speaker 2: 20:08

One, they are walking away from a consumer who has a higher level of discernment today than they did yesterday around the brands that they want to invite into their lives. The second part is for the people that you brought into your organization sends a signal that maybe I may not be as committed as I was, and so, therefore, the context and environment in which you are working is subject to turmoil, and so my thing would just simply be, in terms of as we leave, this segment would just simply be that again, there is a direct. You're perfectly designed for the outcome you get, and the design of what we're talking about is not only just the brand and creative development process. But we're talking about how do you construct an environment that attracts the most inclusive and talented minds against your business? And if your design is that we made a commitment 36 months ago and it's now different right, then, in some way, shape or form, you start to go back to the outcomes that you once had before.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Well, I don't even know how to build on that, so I won't. I think that that is just flawlessly said. So thank you for that and thank you for reminding me the title of the program. Yeah, that's funny, super quick. I always love to ask people, our guests, that what, because of Career Club and this is about careers you are in a position to be evaluating talent. Whether you're helping your client evaluate talent, you're looking at the agency's talent, you're looking at your own organization's talent, what are the attributes, the characteristics the catch your eye?

Speaker 2: 21:44

Oh wow. So the first thing is I look at whether or not someone is can substance sub-intensively contribute to the business or the business issue at hand. Right, and so what I mean by that is I'm looking for skill set. Does an individual have the practical experience that helps us understand the level, what the learning curve would be right?

Speaker 1: 22:12

There's always gonna be a learning curve when they come in.

Speaker 2: 22:15

So I'm looking at sub-intensive experience. Now, the second thing I look at is I'm not married to experience. I am married to the propensity for you to grow into what we need you to do. So, even if you don't have this experience, I'm looking for whether or not there's an opportunity for us to lean into you and grow the skill sets that we're going to need from someone in a particular position to be able to do that.

Speaker 2: 22:40

So it's not that I'm married to, just did you do this or didn't you do this. I'm saying, even if you didn't do this, do you have the propensity for us to grow? And the third piece is and I tell this to my account manager.

Speaker 2: 22:55

I like to see innovation and I want to invite an individual that can think and shape what it is that we do.

Speaker 2: 23:05

And in our industry, in terms of marketing and advertising, it's very hierarchical right by the time we see a commercial, it's gone through the creative, the designers, and then it gets to a creative director and he or she decides what moves forward and it goes to the client and then it goes there.

Speaker 2: 23:22

So what ends up happening is it's really become subjective in terms of what moves forward. I want to I really value individuals who can bring some additional thinking, broadener, of the way we look at things right, Challenge assumptions, right but still I have the business acting in to understand that we got to move some things forward. So those are three things. I want to look at the full set of experiences that you have, that they line up with what our needs are. Second piece is your development opportunity. I'm not expecting you to come in and hit a home run, like we were just talking about, but do you have the seeds that allow us to continue to pour into you and grow into you? And the last part is what can you bring some innovation and some strategies to broaden our thinking and our capabilities, Because every five years the company has to revisit its strategy in order to grow.

Speaker 2: 24:11

And so I want strategic thinkers and folks who can contribute to where we should go next.

Speaker 1: 24:16

Well in your role. I mean, all of that resonates. Just to comment on the last one very quickly I think that shows a level of humility on your part, that you're not the wizard, you don't have all the ideas and I'm just sort of moving the pieces of the chessboard around. So you know, we're a team like I don't have all the ideas, and one of the things that I like to talk about is I don't want to be right, I want to figure out what's right, and we do that in dialogue and most value when people push back and can defend a position. Again, we may not always go with it, but the diversity of thought and I had thought of it that way and so I really want you know it resonates with me that you're encouraging people to bring ideas Like that's how we grow is when you've got this.

Speaker 2: 25:08

But it's also I mean, you've done a stint in corporations and stuff like that you know we are conditioned at least for our generation of folks who've been in companies and are doing something different We've been conditioned to come to the table with an answer, remember so we're sitting, you're in a business meeting and you're meeting with your one-up or the group president or the brands general manager, and there was the expectation that you at least have an opinion.

Speaker 2: 25:40

And then we also got trained and conditioned to do that authoritatively. Yes, right, do it with authority.

Speaker 1: 25:47

When you are managing people.

Speaker 2: 25:50

It's easy. I have to sound authoritative. I'm a business owner. They're paying me to know something right, but I don't want my tone to then interfere and shut someone else's thinking down. So for the people that work with me and the people that work for me, I always say I know that. I have an authoritative tone or an academic or intellectual thing, because our clients pay us to know.

Speaker 2: 26:13

But I'm letting you know as a manager of people that I want you to think beyond my tone and introduce new thinking, and you're inviting that. So I think it's important for people who manage people to give that invitation to the people that they work for yes, right, as opposed to just holding a position and people kind of being a bit apprehensive about sharing their best thinking. That can actually make a difference in what you do.

Speaker 1: 26:41

No, extremely, extremely good advice. Last last thing what advice would you give 28-year-old Sean? With the benefit of my thoughts, I got you on that one, oh.

Speaker 2: 26:58

God, you know. Everybody always says that you know. I wish I knew then what I know now, and so for me that's my biggest thing I think about is how would I?

Speaker 2: 27:12

know now, in terms of me being at this age, I think I undervalued the potential of mentorship For me. We can accelerate the pace at which we do things if we are informed about what's ahead, and I think that that's the marriage between those who are more experienced and wise and those who are beginning their journeys. And so I think I would have been. I probably would have drank less and I would have been a little bit more outgoing in terms of just soaking in all the great thinking and not allowing a generational gap or a perceived as someone who's stoic and they're older and I'm not going to get anything from them. I just think that you can accelerate the pace of which you do things and make life more enjoyable if you have a lifeline to something that informs you of what's coming, and that would have been really good for a 28-year-old.

Speaker 2: 28:19

You know, sean Ruggles, and I think that my mission is to be that for someone. My mission is to. My personal mission is to in some way shape or form I'm very spiritually grounded to have to take the knowledge and wisdom that God has given me and the life experiences and begin to transfer that to someone who's willing to take it right. So that's what I would have done. That's what I would have done.

Speaker 1: 28:48

Discipleship is a good thing.

Speaker 2: 28:50

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 28:51

Now I appreciate everything that you've had to say In jealous the young person that gets to be your mentee, because you've got a lot of wisdom to share. So thank you for everything you've shared with us today. It's been really, really powerful, and both just on the business side, but I think also on the people side.

Speaker 2: 29:10

Well, I think well, thank you for having me on this platform, you. But I love about your platform as it forces you to think about things that you walk by every day but you don't apply a lot of critical thinking to. I think that I think you can accelerate the pace of impact and change by having conversations with people that are in the mix, and so when, when the invitation came to at least have this conversation with you, and then even our pre-show conversation, it just felt like it was a kind of an organic fit. So I'm actually very proud and honored to join the career club hosts that have had the opportunity to be on the show. But thank you for challenging me to think more critically about the work that we do and the impact and the changes still needs to happen.

Speaker 1: 29:52

So thanks a lot to me for what you're saying, thank you, thank you for that very much. Thank you, everyone for taking a few minutes out of your day to watch this. If it's on YouTube, please comment, subscribe If you're listening to this on your favorite podcast platform, rate and review. It really does help. But just want to sign off and say Sean, thanks so much. It's been a ton of fun and we'd really encourage people to look up the catalyst group if you'd like to become expert in multicultural marketing.

Speaker 2: 30:18

So thank you, my friend Appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 30:19

Thank you, I know you're gonna find it. You've got all your teeth, so just keep going.