Join us for the next Career Club Live podcast featuring Melissa Grabiner! Melissa is a global HR and talent acquisition leader with over 200,000 followers on LinkedIn. She will be discussing her career journey and sharing tips for job seekers.
Melissa and Bob will cover topics like personal branding, networking, and understanding your unique value proposition. They will provide actionable advice on crafting compelling resumes and LinkedIn profiles. Melissa will also share insights from her perspective as a recruiter.
The Career Club Live podcast is your source for practical career advice. Bob and Melissa will empower you with strategies to take control of your job search and land your dream role. This is an event you won't want to miss!
Join us for the next Career Club Live podcast featuring Melissa Grabiner! Melissa is a global HR and talent acquisition leader with over 200,000 followers on LinkedIn. She will be discussing her career journey and sharing tips for job seekers.
Melissa and Bob will cover topics like personal branding, networking, and understanding your unique value proposition. They will provide actionable advice on crafting compelling resumes and LinkedIn profiles. Melissa will also share insights from her perspective as a recruiter.
The Career Club Live podcast is your source for practical career advice. Bob and Melissa will empower you with strategies to take control of your job search and land your dream role. This is an event you won't want to miss!
I know you're gonna find it. You've got to keep on at it. Hey everybody, this is Bob Goodwin, and welcome to another episode of Career Club Live. Thank you so much for investing a few minutes with us today. Our episode today is brought to you by some free resources we're offering on the Career Dot Club website If you'll just navigate to four job seekers and then there's a section on there called Making your Own Weather, which is the name of our job search masterclass. But we've got some really valuable but free resources that we're offering to new friends of Career Club, so I'd really encourage you to check those out.
Speaker 1:If you are watching this on YouTube, please like, subscribe and comment. It really does help, and the same with whatever podcast platform you might be listening to this on. Just leaving a rating and a review is super helpful. It drives the algorithm, as you know, so we really appreciate you doing that. Today's guest I am really excited about, melissa Gravener, is a global HR and talent acquisition leader and you probably know her on LinkedIn. She has a huge following 200,000 plus followers on LinkedIn. But more than that, she drives a very high level of engagement talking about career and job search topics, and does it with a great deal of empathy and feeling, in a way that I know resonates with her followers, which is why she does so well with them. And so with that, melissa, welcome to Career Club Live.
Speaker 2:Oh, Bob, thank you so much for having me. I'm very happy and excited to be talking to you.
Speaker 1:No, it is quite mutual. So before we dive in, we're going to talk just for listeners. We're going to talk a lot about job search strategies, techniques, things to keep in mind. Melissa, as I've already said, is a global expert on the topic. We might know a little bit about it. To Career Club and as Melissa and I have gotten to know each other, there's a lot of resonance in how we approach things and but we compliment each other. I think there's going to be just some really effective and valuable nuggets for you guys. But before we get into all of that, Melissa, as is our want, we'd like to get to know you a little bit. So just some very easy, brief, icebreaker questions when do we find you today? Where are you born and raised and where are you now?
Speaker 2:So I was born and raised in Chicago. I've lived here my entire life. I actually went to undergrad as well at the University of Illinois in Champaign-Urbana. So yeah, I've been in Chicago my entire life and the winters are very difficult, as I'm experiencing right now with the snowstorm but the summers are great and that's what keeps me here.
Speaker 1:Chicago is a great town. I've worked for a couple of companies that are headquartered in Chicago, and I love being downtown. It's a ton of fun. You mentioned school, so we've already got that out of the way. So you went to the University of Illinois in Champaign-Urbana. Go, linae. Just a little bit about your family.
Speaker 2:Sure, thank you for asking. So I've been happily married to my husband, craig, for over 25 years. We have two sons. My oldest son is a junior in college. He's at the Kelley School of Business at Indiana University, and my younger son is Charlie. He's also at University of Illinois and he is studying neuroscience.
Speaker 1:Whoa Holy cow. Well, too bad you guys didn't have smart boys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always say they take after their father in that regard.
Speaker 1:But yeah, you know, my husband and I are very blessed.
Speaker 2:We just became empty nesters, so it's been an adjustment for me, for sure. But they're happy and thriving and, as a mother, that's all I want.
Speaker 1:That's all you can ask for. That's so true. We have four kids, so my empathy level is really high. And then, just very quickly, because we set this up as your global HR and town acquisition leader, do you mind just painting a brief picture of your career arc and what you're doing now?
Speaker 2:Sure. So the book of my experience was at a company called Takeda Pharmaceuticals. I was there for 18 years. It actually started as Baxter Healthcare and then, throughout the 18 years there were a couple of changes of hands in terms of the organization. So Baxter spun off into two separate entities. One was called Baxalta. I went with the Baxalta company. Six months later Shire Pharmaceuticals purchased Baxalta. Then I went with Shire. Six months after that Takeda purchased Shire and then I went to Takeda. So it was 18 years, but always with the same legacy company.
Speaker 2:For the first 10 or so years I was a senior HR business partner and my job was predominantly employee relations based, so working with employees and our legal team on all sorts of issues. The company, or I should say the business that I supported within Baxter, was growing very, very quickly and the senior leaders of the business tapped me on the shoulders to start from inception the town acquisition function for that business. So when they asked me to do this, I had no budget, I had no headcount, we had nothing to go on, but all of our individual sites were managing the staffing on their own and the leaders felt that there needed to be some consistency within that process and how we kind of grew and develop the branch of the company. So I was given at that point. I was given a budget, I was able to hire as many people as I felt I needed and I basically built out the entire infrastructure for the department. By the time I left the company, I had 11 direct reports. We were hiring about 3000 employees globally, which constituted at the time 48% of all hires within Takeda. It was a very, very fast paced business that I supported, hiring 3000 people with a headcount of 11. We were a very lean machine, but I built out the infrastructure processes. Everything that you name it that had to do with town acquisition was really my responsibility. It was an incredible run. I ended up leaving the company after 18 years and don't regret one minute of my time there. It was the job and experience of a lifetime.
Speaker 2:I am currently working at a company called One Digital, working within the Christine Matthews Consulting arm of that, and what I do now is I'm a senior town acquisition leader by title and I work with various clients, predominantly in the San Francisco area, mostly biotech and pharma startups, and I help them with either completely putting together the department, building out the infrastructure, putting together an applicant tracking system, creating processes, procedures, hiring manager playbooks.
Speaker 2:I have other clients where I do strictly hiring anywhere from a non-exempt employee all the way up to the chief technical officer and everything in between. So I've been at this job for about two and a half years and what's really nice about this job is that I work with a variety of clients and I really, really love the biotech pharma space. I think it's very, very dynamic and knowing that I am working with these companies that are making the products that ultimately go into our patients to save their lives is very, very impactful. So, looking back, I feel very blessed with the career that I've had. I mean, certainly it hasn't always been easy but looking back, I wouldn't change it for anything.
Speaker 1:No, that's phenomenal and it's so cool that you've kind of gotten to your why, not only just what you're good at, why you enjoy doing it so much. Last question you talked about your boys. Now that you're an empty nesters, what do you like to do when you're not building world-class town acquisition teams and processes?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm actually a certified yoga instructor. I teach five yoga classes a week. It is my passion. It is what I love to do more than anything. I have been practicing yoga for about 15 years and then, about a year and a half ago, woke up one morning and said that's it, I'm getting certified. It was something that was always on the back of my mind of what I wanted to do, but either due to work, travels or raising my sons, there was never the right time. And then last year, again one morning, I woke up and said if I'm not going to do it now, I'm never going to do it. No more excuses. That day I signed up for teacher training and, yeah, now I teach five classes a week and it's the best thing I've ever done, and I am a perfect example of if you have a dream, pursue it, and you're never too old to follow your passions.
Speaker 1:Amen and amen.
Speaker 2:Good for you.
Speaker 1:That is very, very cool. So we're going to dive into job search topics because that's definitely something of mutual interest and obviously of high interest to our listening audience. But before I go there, when I introduced you, I talked a little bit about you know you've got a significant number of followers a couple hundred thousand on LinkedIn but what's more impressive to me is the level of engagement, melissa, that you're able to drive when you do a post, and I wonder if you could just help people understand what it is that you post about and why you believe your posts do so well with your followers.
Speaker 2:Sure. So I think my posts do well is because I'm very authentic and very understanding of what job seekers go through. I post a lot about just motivation for job seekers. You know, don't give up, always be your own best advocate. I talk a lot about HR practices, about working in a toxic environment, and I think a lot of the things that I post about are just they resonate in the hearts of my followers. There are some times where I post and it goes crazy and I'll receive, you know, 10,000 reactions, you know over one million people having, you know, reviewed it or the level of engagement.
Speaker 2:But I think it's because I put myself in the role, in the shoes of a job seeker. You know, when I left to Kata after 18 years, I was scared to death. I mean, as much as you would think, someone like me knows how to put a resume together. I hadn't put a resume together in 18 years and so I never really thought about having to do it until I was faced with having to do it, and so I have so much empathy for people that are looking for jobs. I am very passionate about the candidate experience and it saddens me when I received messages from people private messages, drug messages of their horror stories of you know. I interviewed with this company six times and I was promised an offer and I never, to this day, six weeks later, heard back, and so on any given day I receive at least a hundred drug messages from people all over the world. Predominantly they are job seekers, either thinking me for my content or sharing their stories with me.
Speaker 2:A lot of times these people are also asking me to post about what happened to them, and sometimes I do that.
Speaker 2:Someone once asked me recently you know how do I come up with these posts and, to be honest with you, I work out every morning before work and that is when my juices are flowing, that's when my creative head is really put on, and the vast majority of the time the posts and the verbiage just come to me. I don't think about it a lot, I don't methodically map it out, they just come to me. But having the voice of empathy for job seekers is what I think has really drove the engagement levels, and I will continue to be a voice for job seekers. I will continue to champion job seekers and I will continue to talk about the toxic work environments that too many people are a part of and how I feel that is such a horrible thing for employees to have to endure. But I know, you know, when I receive these messages from people and they have thanked me and told me how much my posts resonate with them. That is why I do what I do and the more people that come to check me.
Speaker 2:It just keeps me going, because if I can make the difference for one person, or if my tips that I post about can help one person find a job, then I know that I'm doing the right thing and I'll continue to do it.
Speaker 1:Well, again, our whys are very closely aligned and for people you know I think this may be a good way to start kicking this thing off which is your posts resonate because of empathy and authenticity. Like I really, really understand what you're talking about, like just having some quiet time and you're not listening to a podcast and watching TV, you're just doing something that's kind of keeping you busy, but it allows your mind to go, and you're playing back things that you've heard read right, whether it's in your DMs, like you're saying, or a conversation that you've had with a candidate, and it's like, yeah, that's a story that I know is going to resonate with people. That's a common experience that people feel and that you're not trying to over engineer the LinkedIn algorithm. And how can I use enough hashtags and emojis and whatever? You're just writing the truth as you're hearing it and feeling it from your audience and then kind of playing that back to people.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I would say about that, melissa, is I think that that is highly translatable to and I don't want to go all the way into this just yet but in your messaging, in your like whether it's your resume, your LinkedIn profile, answering, tell me about yourself, like being your authentic self cells. That's what people want. And so maybe we could start off just talking about self-awareness and I know that that's a big thing for you and how you would, and how you do, counsel people to kind of get to a level of self-awareness so that they know how to communicate kind of their true values.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that I think you hit the nail on the head. I think part of the reason why my engagement has increased so quickly and continues to increase every day is because I do post authentically. So I'll give you a perfect example. I posted last night about a situation I was in a couple of years ago where I had two job offers, and one job offer was a higher salary but it would. It required me to come into the office and I had another job offer at the same time that was a lower salary but allowed me to work remote. And so what I posted about was I think I started the post with this is my remote working story. That was the first line, and then I talked a little bit about the fact that these were my options, and I chose the lesser salary so I could have the work-life balance, because at the time both of my boys were in high school and I wouldn't have changed that decision for anything. So, being there for my boys in the morning, being there when they came from school, and always just being there for them, these are times and precious moments that you can never get back, and so for me, the salary increase that I would have gotten, had I worked out of the office. That didn't matter to me, because what matters to me is the time that I spend with my family and pursuing my passions. I always can make more money I think anyone can, always. You know, there's always ways that you can make more money but you never can get that time back. And now that my boys are in college and I'm an empty nester, I am so grateful for the decision that I made, because now I can look back on these last three to four years and say you know what? I wasn't spending that time commuting. I wasn't spending that time in the office. I was spending that time not commuting and instead I had that precious time with my kids, which is something that I would never be able to get back.
Speaker 2:So that was a post that I did last night. It was just an authentic post about an experience that I had, and the post went crazy and I haven't looked recently in terms of the engagement, but I think, even like last night alone. I mean, I had well over a thousand likes and just hundreds of comments. So that is an example of posting from the heart, and I think when people post their own personal stories, that resonates with other people. That's when you start really getting that engagement on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:And I'll tell you too and you're a perfect example of this, bob, where and we'll talk about this perhaps in a little bit regarding the power of LinkedIn but LinkedIn has enriched my life in more ways than I can even tell you I mean, it's allowed me to meet amazing people like yourself. I've been working with companies very select companies that I'm very select about, but on brand partnerships and I've just met incredible people from all over the world and, as a matter of fact, the job I have now I found on LinkedIn. I reached out to the president of the company. She responded immediately. Two weeks later, I was hired and I've been at this job for two and a half years. So I think that, as time progresses, linkedin is just getting bigger and bigger, and the more people that embrace the platform, I think, the more their lives, like mine, will be enriched. It's just getting yourself out there. It's okay to be vulnerable and just be your authentic self.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I want to pick up on something because this is going to be very job seeker specific. But you just said about how you reached out directly to the president of the company. Were you responding to a job posting? Necessarily no.
Speaker 2:I was not as a matter of fact, I knew I wanted to stay in the biotech pharma space and I did my homework on potential organizations and I came across. Her name is Christine Matthews she is. When I joined the company, it was called Christine Matthews Consulting. Right after I joined, one Digital actually kind of merged with Christine Matthews Consulting, so right away I became an employee of One Digital, but I found Christine through my own research and I sent her a nice message on LinkedIn and I explained a little bit about my background and why I was interested in her organization and what she built, and that got the dialogue going and within two weeks I had a job offer and it's this is one of the best jobs that I've ever had.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, so I'm gonna explode. This is like completely not rehearsed. I have never heard that story before, Is?
Speaker 2:that true.
Speaker 1:Melissa, have you ever told that to me before? No, so what you just described is what we teach people in our job search masterclass what we call making your own weather and what we find is just way too many job seekers are reacting to job postings. And there's nothing wrong with job postings I mean that should be part of the mix but what way too few candidates do is be proactive. And so you knew your value proposition. You knew that you're very strong in HR. You knew that you knew biotech, so that intersection right there creates a unique value proposition that you've got some very specific experience that should be interested to the right audience. So then you moved and you had identified firms that you were interested in and you knew what you wanted to say to them. Then you identified the decision maker at the company and you did your research and you did homework on her, and so you were prepared and you crafted something that was very specific to her. It wasn't generic, it wasn't just, you know, kind of cranking out a spam email to a million people hoping somebody responds. You wrote a very specific communication to Christine. She followed up with you because it was relevant. You resonated with her and, as you said you had a job offer in two weeks.
Speaker 1:The reason that I'm like doing cartwheels is I had the exact same experience, which was really the origin story of Career Club, where I was doing my networking, reached out to a bunch of people very specifically, very intentionally. I knew what my value proposition was. Mine was interesting, though, because it broke a little bit different. One of the people that I had reached out to said that's cool, I know why you reached out to us, but this company over here that's who you want to talk to. I just left there and said you're a TA leader, like six weeks ago. They're looking for you. Here's the hiring manager's name and phone number.
Speaker 1:You said I told you to call him and I had a job offer in three weeks. But that's why I call it making your own weather. We're not complaining that. You know it's snowing and it's minus a million degrees and this doesn't this all suck. It's like well, that may all still be true and you may have not been at Takeda anymore and you wish it right like whatever, but it is what it is. How do I go and exert ownership and agency for my life and do it in a smart, strategic way and that's, yeah, I just love, love, love what you're saying.
Speaker 2:No, bob, absolutely. I see so many people posting on LinkedIn about I apply to five no joke. I mean, I've seen posted people, I've applied to 500 roles and I've heard back from two companies, and I am always a big believer that we always have to take our careers in our own hands and we always have to be our own best advocates. And so when, when people reach out to Manlington which happens, you know, multiple, multiple times a day with these sort of stories where I don't know what else to do, I've depleted all of my resources no one is responding to my job application and the one thing I say to everybody is network as much as you can and then network some more.
Speaker 2:Statistically, I actually read an article last week it was an article written by one of the LinkedIn news editors that said that three percent of people find their jobs through a job posting and someone who's a recruiter.
Speaker 2:I absolutely believe that to be true, because if a company is posting a job, you might see over a thousand applicants.
Speaker 2:What is the chance that the person is actually going to get a job when they're competing with over a thousand people?
Speaker 2:And plus, too, a lot of times the companies fill the job internally, they've put the position on hold. So, statistically speaking, it is a very low percentage that people actually find their jobs through a job posting, and that is why I always recommend and I post about this as well not only should you network to find the right opportunity, but do your own research, like I did. I mean, if I didn't be proactive about my job search, I wouldn't be at the job I'm at today, and there's so many tools out there that can help job seekers. I mean, linkedin is a perfect example where you can find anything you need to find in terms of who to contact at the company, what are their titles, what are their positions. It takes a little bit of time to do that, but the reward at the end of the day could be so great, because that could be the difference of landing a job or have your resume be put in the applicant tracking system black hole yeah, amen, yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about networking and the networking some more. What does that mean to you? What, when you're talking about networking, can you kind of break that down a little bit more on exactly what you mean, because it means different things to different people and I want to hear your take on it sure.
Speaker 2:So I first like to say you know just the sheer importance of networking. Networking is by far the most effective way of finding a job, and some of the reasons why I think it's crucial for a job search is, I think the first is it provides access to potentially hidden opportunities. So with my experience you know many job opportunities are not publicly advertised. And so what networking does? It is allows the job seeker to tap into a potentially hidden job market by learning about openings through personal connections and even thinking about. You know we all have a network. So I I'll take myself, for example. I have a circle of friends and I have family. But my family and my friends, they have connections. So it's not only about like first level connections, it's who do you know and who do they know. So networking again is a broader kind of circle, outside of just who your first connections are.
Speaker 2:And I think the other thing with networking is it helps to build relationships, and it's authentic relationships, and these relationships can provide valuable advice or insight and even support throughout one's career. And it's really important that people understand that networking is a two-way street. It's not only about take-take-take, it's a give and a take. So networking is not only what you can do for me, but what can I do for you in return. I have networked with so many people throughout my career and the one thing that I always do is say how can I help you like? Is there someone in my network that I can introduce you to? Is there perhaps an opening up my company and I can get your resume in the right hands? But it's a mutual beneficial relationship. It's not just let's take, but what can I give, and I think that's the networking maybe okay.
Speaker 1:So again, this is why I'm so excited to have you on. The very first article I ever wrote on LinkedIn was called the most powerful question you can ask, and it was born out of a networking meeting where job seeker was reaching out to me and we met, of course, at a Starbucks and the the gentleman's body language was full of shame. He was apologizing even as we're meeting for like hey, bob, I know your time truly valuable. I apologize for taking up, you know, too much of your time, you know. Thank you so much for even spending a few minutes with me, and I'm like Kevin, I want to meet you, like I'm here because I want to be here, but what was implied in all that was a lack of self-worth, that he didn't feel like he had anything to offer, and that was the genesis, kind of, like you said, we're doing your creative juices, get flowing.
Speaker 1:I'm like there's a lot of people I know that feel this way.
Speaker 1:And what he was, what he was ignoring, was his professional experience, his things, that he's just smart in his network, that he has, he's got lots of assets, and so because he felt like it was not an adult to adult conversation, it was more like an adult child conversation, you know and or you know, kind of, you know, like he was begging.
Speaker 1:So wasn't like take, take, take, it was more like begging, which is really humiliating. But when you can go into a meeting like, hey, no, my objective is to be mutually beneficial, and not not even talking about trading like bartering, because that's kind of gross too, but it's like, no, I genuinely want to learn about you, what's important to you and if there's a way that I can be helpful to you, like I really want to be able to do that. And it just really changes the dynamic of a networking meeting but also, I think, particularly for somebody who's been in job search for a while, absolutely preserves their self-worth and their identity that they don't feel like again like they're begging, but they're actually, you know, bringing value to somebody else while on the same time, hopefully, that person is bringing some value to them as well yeah, I mean networking is.
Speaker 2:I'm a big proponent of networking. I remember a couple years ago, I was a guest speaker at the Hermack event, which is the HR Management Association of Chicago. It's a big organization where a lot of HR people are a member, and I was asked to speak at that event and I met a handful of really dynamic people and I still, to this day, am in touch with them and I was, you know, before the event started. They had an hour of time where you can network and I thought, you know what? I'm gonna go an hour early and I'm gonna meet as many people as I can. And that is exactly what I did and to this day, there are still five or six people that I talked to all the time that I met at that event.
Speaker 2:It was a networking event and when I was looking for a job before, you know, right before I got the job I have now, I reached out to all of them and just to let them know that I was looking for a new position because they were part of my network and every time I talk to them, it's I find out. How are you? What's going on in your world is? Is there anything you need for me it's. It's having those relationships and maintaining those relationships through time. But it always should be a two-way street. It's again, it's never just you know what can you do for me, but it's what can I do for you as well.
Speaker 1:Melissa, what would you say to the person who's like I hear you, but it sounds like you're a pretty outgoing person. I'm pretty shy that that. That makes me very uncomfortable thinking about what you're saying, and yeah, I do it, but I'm really kind of gritting my teeth the whole time. What would you say to that person?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a hard thing for people like that, because I happen to be outgoing and going to these events is fun for me, but I certainly understand that not everyone feels that way and what I would say is keep in mind what you can offer, because we all have something to offer, whether it be just knowledge or what we can offer our own connections, we can offer our thoughts and we're all dynamic people that have our own things to offer. But it's breaking out of that shell and saying you know what networking is, as hard as it could be, At the end of the day it could be a really valuable thing. And just knowing that you have the confidence, we all have reasons to be proud of ourselves. So it's showing that confidence and trying to allude that confidence and trying to break out of that shell for the purpose of really establishing new relationships and meeting new people. But I get it.
Speaker 2:I mean, not everyone is an extrovert. I happen to be, so it's easy for me. But I know a lot of people that are introverts that have actually asked me this very question. You know I've received messages on LinkedIn saying I know networking is important, but it's really hard for me to do that because it's out of my comfort zone. So my suggestion to them is that go into any conversation or any event with confidence, knowing what you have to offer, and try to just break out of that shell, because it will be so worth it in the long run.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And just to build on that, the other thing that I would say to people and I think actually most people fall into the category of not extrovert, particularly in like this networking kind of thing is just thinking of it as like a friend making exercise. Hey, tonight I'm going to go an hour early and make, hopefully, one new friend. Yeah, love it, just be positive. And you know, I think the most, maybe the most common thing that I hear from people after they've landed their new job and they've been in job search for a little bit is you know, I wouldn't have chosen this for myself. You know, having to go look for a new job, I met so many nice people. I've, like, I've expanded my tribe so much and I feel so much richer for the experience, having met so many great people.
Speaker 2:You know, bob, that's so true, and I am one of those rare people that I actually enjoy looking for a job, like when I left to Cata that's weird, I know, but I was excited about it and I knew it might not have been easy, but it allowed me, like, looking back, I realized it allowed me to learn about all these new companies. I've met a ton of great people. It expanded my horizons and my knowledge so much just by having that experience of looking for a job. And I realized that you know, most people don't say, oh, I'm going to raise my hand to look for a job. But if you have to look for a job, I always feel like try to have a good attitude about it, because the situation isn't going to change Either way. You have to try to find a job, but look at it as kind of like an adventure Like this could be fun. I'm going to get myself out there and I'm going to meet a lot of great people and I might land an awesome new opportunity.
Speaker 2:You know and I'll say this too when I left to Cata I, you know I was scared to death. I hadn't looked for a job in 18 years. This company was mostly all I knew. But looking back, it was probably the best thing to happen to me, because I'm in a job now where I'm very happy. I've met a ton of new people. I've worked with some incredible companies and it got me kind of out of my comfort zone of the known of being at one place for so long, but looking back, it was the biggest blessing in disguise.
Speaker 2:And that's what I say to job seekers Like this could be a blessing in disguise. You might not see it now, but you'll see it in time.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And so one of the things that we offer job seekers is called radical resilience. And so you know, finding yourself out of work is generally not a well received event, and so you know we need to draw on some strength, you know, to to power through it. And one of the key things in radical resilience is benefit finding. And it's kind of what you did.
Speaker 1:Hey, I'm going to learn new companies, I'm going to learn new industries. I'm going to learn meet new people. I'm going to learn some new stuff. I'm going to meet some really nice people. I might even be able to help some people along the way. Right, and so I'm going to go at this with this sort of adventure mindset and find the good in this process that makes all the difference in the world. Because the way I say it most is the road to yes is littered with no, and there's so much rejection that's involved in a job search and it hurts and it's not fun, and there's no way to put a smiley sticker on top of that and make it okay. But when you can one acknowledge, like I know, this is not going to be easy. This is not going to be a layup, but there are going to be some good things that happen and I'm going to be looking for those good things. It just having just that positive, good intent kind of a mindset makes all the difference in the world for something that is inherently not easy.
Speaker 2:You know, a perfect example of that is I worked with this woman at Takeda who was who was laid off, and I've everything I could to help her find a job. And I sent her a message over the weekend and I said tell me what's going on. What's going on with your job search. Is there anything I could do to help you? Is there any connections I can make? And I continue to ask her that, but it's important that I make sure she understands that I'm here to support her. She wrote me back last night. She said that she found a new job and this past year, while she was out of work, was a huge growth year for her in terms of her own kind of development. She said she learned a lot about herself and that's positive to have that time that you can learn more about yourself, because sometimes looking for a job you know you. You learn more about what you can take, what you can't, how much you can tolerate. It's.
Speaker 1:It's a learning experience for anyone going through I want to shift gears here a little bit. We're still in the realm of job search. In in our model we talk a lot about attitude, which is what you and I just talked about. We talk a lot about networking and outreach and sort of the activity you know, and those kinds of things are very, very important. But there's a big chunk in the middle that I'd really like to tap into your expertise on and that is your personal brand, your messaging.
Speaker 1:So you know, the analogy that I use with people is you know you can be very busy networking and doing lots of activities, but it could be like buying a Super Bowl ad. You're in front of a lot of people, but if your commercials no good, like that was not a good use of time or money, you need to make sure your commercial is really good first. Then go by the TV spot and be out there in front of a lot of people, so you know when you're. Maybe you're kind of going in your town acquisition hat, but whether it's, tell me about yourself why you're so interested in this role. You know anything that they kind of gets at what the candidates value proposition is there? Why, if they haven't nailed that down before they're going to market trying to find a job. I think that's a huge mistake and can end up burning up networks, networking opportunities, burning up interview opportunities. It's just setting you back in your journey that much longer. How do you talk to people about getting their message and really kind of understanding their unique value proposition?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, what I always recommend job seekers to all job seekers and I know not everyone is comfortable doing this but to make sure they have an optimized LinkedIn Profile.
Speaker 2:Right, because I know for myself as a recruiter, when I'm recruiting for positions, I always look on LinkedIn. There are a lot of people that are in job search mode who either don't have a photo on LinkedIn, they have a very, very slim summary, but there's nothing in there that tells me who this person is, what they believe in and so what I instruct job seekers and I say this because a lot of times, job seekers come to me actually this happens all the time where they'll say can you look at my LinkedIn profile and give me any recommendations? And so I do that for everybody. It takes up a lot of my time, but, you know, I feel like if job seekers are going to reach out to me, the least I can do is provide them with with some guidance, and I always take a quick peek at their LinkedIn profile and I give them those suggestions but, this is their way of branding themselves, because companies look at a piece of paper that's a resume.
Speaker 2:But I think in conjunction with the resume, they have to have that optimized LinkedIn profile. There's no question about it that this is what all job seekers need to do. And I say take advantage of the real estate, so to speak, in LinkedIn. So if you're about section, gives you X amount of characters, use it all up. I mean, on my LinkedIn profile it is optimized. I mean, and I'm constantly looking at it saying is there anything that I should add? Is there anything that I should take away?
Speaker 2:But you know, making sure that my my heading is catchy, making sure I have an up to date profile picture, making sure that I list my skills and my accomplishments, trying to get recommendations from other people because this is what recruiters do. They look on LinkedIn at someone's profile. It provides them the person's job history. It provides them with the duties and responsibilities that someone has in either their current or prior role. So I always highly suggest to job seekers is take advantage of their LinkedIn profile, because that could tell a recruiter or a hiring manager a very compelling story and you want to make it. So those recruiters and hiring managers say I have to reach out to Melissa Grabner. I loved her profile. I think she'd be a great fit for this position. You want to give them a reason that is so enticing that they're going to want to call you to have that conversation love it.
Speaker 1:So, building on that, one of the things that we would talk with a client about is you want to be found for what you want to be found for, so understanding how a recruiter is using LinkedIn to find talent, and so you're finding job descriptions of roles that look really, really interesting to you and you'll find me. What are the common skills where, the common attributes that they're looking for? And then making sure that your LinkedIn profile is populated excuse me, with those same things, because the recruiter on the other end of LinkedIn is using those keywords to try and find you, and so, if you're not using the language of the recruiter, you're making it that much harder for you to be found.
Speaker 2:Bob, I'm so glad you brought that up and I think what a lot of people don't know and I'll talk about this here is that a lot of recruiters have have what's called a LinkedIn recruiter license, and this is what I have and this is what I use to find candidates. It allows us to go into LinkedIn and put in keywords and then, based on those keywords, the system will pull up profiles that match those keywords. So if I'm looking to hire, let's say, hr assistant, what I do is I go into LinkedIn and I'll put in these are the skills I need. These are the either the person's current or former job title. This is the level of education this person needs to have. These are the industries the person needs to come from.
Speaker 2:I have hired I can't even tell you how many people through this means of going in LinkedIn, digging deep into the database to find candidates that match the job description as much as possible. I have hired throughout my career easily over 300 people by my proactive sourcing efforts on LinkedIn. So it's really important that job seekers they, you know optimize their LinkedIn profile but try to have any keywords in their profile that's going to pull up if the recruiter doesn't actual search. I would say the same thing for the resume. You know a lot of job seekers will say well, it's so time consuming to create a different resume for each position and I'm not going to argue with that because it could be time consuming.
Speaker 1:However, that very well could be the difference of receiving an interview or not well, so just on the resume piece, I think since November of last year, with the advent of chat, gpt and all the tools that are on top of that, now that you know this, tailoring your resume to a role is not a big deal anymore because you can run it through job scan, skill sinker, rezzy.
Speaker 1:Any of these tools are basically an ATS in reverse where you put in your resume and one piece, the job description, and the other piece it's going to score your resume. It's going to say, hey, they said CRM and account management 16 times. You don't say it at all. But if those are skills that you've got, that's very easy to add to your resume, the soft skills that they're looking for. So you can like, literally in a matter of minutes, clean up your resume, make any kind of tweaks that you need to. Otherwise, what are you going to do? Spend time sending out 500 online applications and then writing the LinkedIn post in six months saying why nobody ever got back to you?
Speaker 1:and that's what happened right, it's very well spent. One of the things I wanted to ask you with LinkedIn and you kind of said we've got to talk to her is how much do would you suggest somebody kind of let's their true personality, literally their true self they're the human part of them, not just sort of the two dimensional work producing unit come through in their LinkedIn profile?
Speaker 2:I think it's vitally important. I mean, that is what has allowed me, I believe, to have as many followers as I have is because I am authentic on LinkedIn. I understand that some people will shy away from that, but when, when I post about things that can capture the hearts of my, of my followers and I know that because of all the reactions and comments that I get people want to be able to relate to other people. People want to be able to relate to people. That kind of think, the same way, that have empathy for other people, and my authentic self is on LinkedIn. I mean, there there are posts that I have done that have been really honest, and but those are the posts that resonate the most with with people, and I think the platform is a great platform for doing that. I know quite a few people on LinkedIn that have hundreds of thousands of followers, and I think in part, it's because their posts are so raw, they're so real and they're so authentic.
Speaker 1:Okay, but hang on. What I want to know about, though, is if I'm a candidate and you're the recruiter, two questions. One is, say, like in the about section, like how much should I try, and really sort of you know, should the full human part of me? Like you know, I'm a mom, I love my dog, I love my kids, you know, and I love to whatever, and I'm an excellent director of marketing. So, like that probably said that really poorly, but, like when you look kind of showing your full self and or what was it, does that resonate with you as a recruiter or is that like too much? Maybe you're over sharing, like I as a recruiter, I'm not sure that's appealing to me, looking at you as a candidate.
Speaker 2:It's a great question and I think that if you ask this question to 10 people, you might get different answers from each At the end of the day, to me it linked in a still a business professional platform. So, like on my page, I don't mention that I have two kids. I mean, I mentioned that I'm a certified yoga instructor because it's something that I'm really proud of and something of what I do. But I don't talk a lot about like my personal life, like I'll post about my kids, like I did last night, but that's more rare. But if you look at my profile, you're not going to see a lot about my. I've been married 25 years. I'm happily married to my great husband. I keep it more on the professional side. I have my posts. That's when I kind of you peel the onion, the layers of the onion, back, and that's where I tend to be a little more open about my actual life. But I know people on LinkedIn that have their whole life story on there. I personally don't think that is necessary.
Speaker 1:But if I say as a recruiter, melissa, do you read candidates posts to try and get a little bit of visibility into who they really are?
Speaker 2:I do. I don't spend a lot of time doing it, just because my time is constrained. You know what. You know, I have a incredibly busy job, but, but definitely I am Bob. I want to actually give you one example of this that I think is so pertinent to this conversation. There is a gentleman on LinkedIn who had on his profile that he's a stalker. Okay, he is in talent acquisition. So I received a message from him two months ago, two and a half months ago. I didn't know him before, before he reached out to me. He wanted me to look at his profile and give him my thoughts. So when I looked at his profile and it said stalker, I immediately was taken him taken aback, because I think of the average person reads this they're going to be like this is kind of creepy, this guy is saying he's a stalker.
Speaker 2:So I went back to this gentleman and I said I really think you should remove the word stalker from your profile. And he and he writes back and he says well, I'm in talent acquisition and I think it's a good thing because it's showing companies that I'm proactive, that I'm going to stalk people on LinkedIn. So I went back to him and I said I don't agree with that and I don't see it that way. I think the vast, vast majority people that go on LinkedIn Are going to look at that and be turned off and going to be a little bit scared. So I highly, highly suggested that he removed that word and I gave him like something else to put in its place. So he came back to me and he said no, I don't necessarily agree.
Speaker 2:Well, the next day he put a poll on his page and the poll you know what I mean by poll, right and the poll said what do you think about me using the word stalker on my profile? So of course, I looked to see what the results were and I think it was like 96% of the people agreed with me and 4% of the people agreed with him. And then the next day, he took off the word stalker on his profile and he wrote me back and he said I really appreciate you kind of putting this thought into my mind.
Speaker 2:I did ask other people and they and they tended to agree, and I didn't see it from the lens of someone like yourself, but I feel like that, like that is an example of be very careful of what you put out there, because the average person that's going to read the word stalker is going to get a little bit creeped out like I don't want to be connected to anyone that is going to stalk me online like what else are they going to stalk?
Speaker 2:So that is a really good example, and a real life example, of just kind of be cautious and methodical and careful about what you put out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean even that, and we don't we don't need to go down this road too much, but it's. It actually shows a little bit of lack of judgment to me. That like, even if you thought it was okay, like, like, is your emotional intelligence such that you can't understand where a lot of people might be turned off by a term like that? So, whether it's something that's like, that's weird but really silly, really just out of place for, as you say, the professional forum that is linked in. But, having said that, you know we really try and encourage our members to humanize themselves. So, like, I've got a client who talks about.
Speaker 1:As a child, I always love watching commercials on TV. I just love storytelling and commercials are stories, and that's led to my career in marketing, where I've been successful. So he kind of like made it part of the thread, part of the narrative, of how he told his story on LinkedIn and, like, to your point, I immediately want to talk to it because he was different and the thing about a brand is a brand is different. It's not doing the exact same thing Everybody else is doing. If you want to be a commodity, that's cool. Say what everybody else is saying If you want to be a brand and stand out in people's minds, then you need to do something that's authentic and different and the right people will resonate with, with your authenticity and what makes you different, and that's where you're gonna find that's gonna be a good home for you.
Speaker 2:And it's always that balance of you know, like I don't, like I like. Personally, for me, I don't think it's necessary to put on my page. I have two boys. This is their, these are their ages, this is where they're studying and this is what they're studying, but they're everything to me. I mean, there's nothing more important than my family. So once in a while I'll post about them, but the post is relevant to other people, like what I posted last night.
Speaker 1:So yeah, no, I agree, I want to be mindful of the time because you and I could probably go for like five hours. There's no problem. We probably have to do a part two in the not too distant future. As we start to wind this down, is there just an experience of dealing with candidates and you just like if you had a magic wand that you could wave over candidates just to help them get to where they want to be faster? What are some other little bits of advice that you might give them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first is just to network as much as possible and then network some more. I mean, I'm a perfect example of the power of networking, which is how I as I mentioned earlier, how I found my job Networking is incredibly vital for one's job search to be successful. And I would also say to job seekers to and I post about this a lot is never give up, and I want to be the voice of kind of encouragement for job seekers is just continue to put yourself out there, and you only need one. Yes, right, you don't need 10 job offers. You want to get that one great offer. But in order to do it, you really got to put in the effort, so jobs aren't necessarily going to become flocking to you.
Speaker 2:It's up to the job seeker to be proactive. Get themselves out there, get their network large and contact not only who you know, but like people. You know. No people and no people, and it's like this domino effect, right? So just tell everyone you know that you're looking for a job. There's no shame in it. Also, we've we've all been there at one time or another and layoffs this year have been rampant, right, and so I know incredibly skilled and amazing people at high levels that have been laid off through no fault of their own, and what I suggest to job seekers is don't be ashamed of being laid off. I mean, it's happened to me, to happen to my husband, it's happened to pretty much everybody. I know there's no shame in it. This is just the world, unfortunately, that we live in today. But keep networking, try to keep a positive attitude, take care of your mental health, take care of your physical health, prioritize what's important and just remember that you only need that one job. Just keep going.
Speaker 1:See, this is why you and I get on so well, because, you know, in our model, I kind of liken it to sales and marketing, and the marketing is the whole branding piece. The sales bit is you have a quota. Your quota is one. You need exactly one new job. You don't need to convince the world of anything you talked about earlier, like doing something later not later, but you know in your life like getting your certification and teaching yoga as a yoga instructor. Well, you know people and I'm sure you hear a lot about this like ageism as an example or whatever the hurdle is. Well, it doesn't mean that that's not true. It just means you don't need to change the whole world. You need one. That's all you need, because you only need one job. And so you know, don't get too hung up on all the reasons why it won't work or whatever. You only need one. Yes, in your pursuit is just on the way to that one. Yes, and so you know.
Speaker 1:The other thing I would just build on what you were saying is the importance of being in community, and I think this is like where your network does come in really, really handy is.
Speaker 1:It's very hard to do this by yourself and to kind of get ginned up every day for this. But when you're in community and some days you're the encourager, some days you're the one who's getting encouragement, you know, these are the things that kind of breathe life into you day after day. And then last thing I'll say is please follow Melissa. No, I mean that because you know we talk a lot about encouragement, empowerment and enablement, and you're for sure doing the first two. You're encouraging people, but you're empowering them by by giving them affirming skills, maybe helping them think about something in a way that they haven't thought about, giving them insight into life of a recruiter and HR professional, so they kind of understand how the game works from your side of the equation. But I just appreciate everything that you're doing. I'm so thankful that we got introduced and I hope that my network gloms on to your network because you're creating amazing content and I'm just very appreciative for everything that you're doing for job seekers.
Speaker 2:And Bob, same to you Absolutely, and this was so much fun. Really appreciate this conversation and I wish all the very best to every job seeker out there.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, and to all the job seekers and people that are maybe even in a career that you don't love and it's time, maybe, to start thinking about making a move. You know, just remember that you've got choice, you've got agency, and we just encourage you to follow us at Career Club, follow me, follow Melissa, for helpful advice, for encouragement and to know that you're on a team of people that are that have your back. We want to see you do well. So, again, last thing, if you're on YouTube, please like, subscribe, comment rate and review if you're listening to. This is a podcast, but mostly, melissa. Thank you so much and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week.
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks, bob, my pleasure, you too.
Speaker 1:Thank you everyone, bye, bye.