Can you imagine moving to America, chasing the dream of a better life, only to fall prey to the grim reality of labor trafficking? This is the stark reality Harold D'Souza, a survivor and now global advocate for change, faced when he moved from India to the United States. In our conversation with Harold, he narrates his arduous journey, and surely, his tale of resilience and optimism in the face of adversity will leave you inspired.
From being ensnared in the web of human trafficking and debt bondage, Harold fought back, turning his life around in a way that will spark hope in even the most cynical hearts. His tireless efforts in fighting human trafficking through survivor-informed research have not gone unnoticed, earning him recognition from the United Nations with the Human Rights Hero Award. His harrowing experiences and subsequent triumphs are not just about survival but about turning adversity into an opportunity to advocate for change on a global level.
After overcoming his tribulations, Harold set up ICE Open International, a non-profit organization aimed at preventing labor trafficking. Harold shares how crucial education, protection, and empowerment are in this fight. With his insightful conversation on the harsh realities of labor trafficking, Harold will make you realize the urgent need for vigilance and action in our communities. His story is sure to leave an indelible impact, and we hope this episode compels you to join the fight against human trafficking.
Can you imagine moving to America, chasing the dream of a better life, only to fall prey to the grim reality of labor trafficking? This is the stark reality Harold D'Souza, a survivor and now global advocate for change, faced when he moved from India to the United States. In our conversation with Harold, he narrates his arduous journey, and surely, his tale of resilience and optimism in the face of adversity will leave you inspired.
From being ensnared in the web of human trafficking and debt bondage, Harold fought back, turning his life around in a way that will spark hope in even the most cynical hearts. His tireless efforts in fighting human trafficking through survivor-informed research have not gone unnoticed, earning him recognition from the United Nations with the Human Rights Hero Award. His harrowing experiences and subsequent triumphs are not just about survival but about turning adversity into an opportunity to advocate for change on a global level.
After overcoming his tribulations, Harold set up ICE Open International, a non-profit organization aimed at preventing labor trafficking. Harold shares how crucial education, protection, and empowerment are in this fight. With his insightful conversation on the harsh realities of labor trafficking, Harold will make you realize the urgent need for vigilance and action in our communities. His story is sure to leave an indelible impact, and we hope this episode compels you to join the fight against human trafficking.
I know you're gonna find it. You've got to keep on at it. Hey everybody, this is Bob Goodwin, president of Career Club, and welcome to another episode of Career Club Live. Before we get started, if you're watching this on YouTube, please subscribe like comment. It really helps. And the same if you happen to be listening to us on your favorite podcast platform, if you would rate us and provide just a little bit of a review. It really helps people find us. So thank you for doing that. Also, if you happen to be in job search, we would encourage you to check out some free resources on careerclub under for job seekers, and you'll find them there. And then, lastly, and especially in light of today's topic, if you are an HR professional, please click on the for employers section. We would love to partner with you. And then, lastly, please make sure that you sign up for our newsletter. It comes out just once a week and it's always chock full of really good insights derived from our work with our clients, as well as some of the podcasting that we do.
Speaker 1:So with that, I want to introduce our guest today. Today's episode is really special to me. Our guest is a good friend of mine and someone who I hold in very high regard. His background is pretty extensive, so I'm going to do a little bit of a reading here to make sure I don't forget anything. So today we have the honor of speaking with Harold de Souza, a distinguished advocate in the fight against labor trafficking and a beacon of hope for survivors worldwide.
Speaker 1:Harold's journey is both harrowing and inspiring. Originally from Mangalore, india, he moved to the US in 2003 in pursuit of the American dream. However, this dream quickly turned into a nightmare when he and his family fell victim to human trafficking and debt bondage, couple topics I knew nothing about before I met Harold, transforming his personal ordeal into a force for global change. Harold co-founded Eyes Open International, a nonprofit organization dedicated to combating human trafficking through survivor, informed research. His tireless efforts have earned him international recognition, including the prestigious United Nations Human Rights Hero Award just this year, in 2023.
Speaker 1:He's been a voice of change at various esteemed institutions, including Harvard University and the UN. His dedication to this cause is further highlighted by his appointment to the United States Advisory Council on Human Trafficking by President Barack Obama and continued through the Trump administration. An author, a public speaker and a true warrior in the fight against modern day slavery, harold de Souza's story of resilience and unwavering determination and, I would add, optimism, continues to inspire and make a significant impact worldwide. So with that, I welcome Harold and looking forward to delving into your journey and learning from you today. My friend, how are you?
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, bob. Happy Thanksgiving, I'm doing fabulous and thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1:No, it's been such a joy getting to know you over the last year. I count you as a friend now, but, as I said in the introduction, an inspiration, but also a heavy dose of education. So we're going to go ahead and dive into your story because I want to make good use of the time. Do you mind just telling us a little bit about your life in India, and then when and why you decided to make the move to come to the United States?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but before you say that, bob, I don't believe that I'm an inspiration. I always tell that three things I am a common man, I am a failure and I have a sinner, which I'll share during my presentation. But in India, growing up as a child, it's every man's dream to go to the United States of America. So even today, going to the US means like going to Swark, or Swark in India means heaven or paradise and they say, only God's chosen people get an opportunity to go to the US. So I grew up in a small village, you know like, where my father was a farmer and for him education was last in the least. For them it was like doing agriculture, taking care of the cattle. And so my dad, like growing up, gave us education first, on the least. You know.
Speaker 2:I had a good job back in India, but my trafficker was shopping to get somebody to the US which I didn't know. So I was invited on an H1B visa, which is a work visa on a $75,000 salary per year plus benefits, which is much of money, we say in a lot of money. And so I came with that expectation. So I came to the US 20 years back on four things I came on a trust, I came on a faith, I came on a promise and I came to live an American dream. Thank you, bob.
Speaker 1:And what was your job back in India and what job did you think you were coming to in the US?
Speaker 2:So I started my career in India from grass root. So I've done my masters in marketing management, I've done my post-graduation diploma in human resource development, I've done my labor law. But I had a very good job. I was working for a multinational company as an assistant general manager. I was managing a big portfolio. I was doing extremely well. I had a car from the company or driver, so I was on that high platform back in India. But I was invited here as a business development manager. So it was a very good position, considering my education, my experience and I was so super excited for my two kids that I never investigated or researched what an H1B visa meant. I never knew anything. I had everything in black and white from the immigration department of my salary and that is how I got the visa and that is how I landed in the year 2003, february.
Speaker 1:You talked about. It's the dream to come to America in 30 seconds to a minute. What were your expectations? What was your vision of what America was going to be like?
Speaker 2:It was like growing up as a child, bob. I always saw the movies, like the good, the bad, the ugly. We saw Chicago. We saw New York in magazines. So there was no television when we grew up. So this is all fantasy.
Speaker 2:So it was a very big hype. It was like, really I felt like I was going to heaven because a lot of people were celebrating my family and my friends and unknown friends. What the hell do you want to America? Wow, so you are God's chosen person, and so that created more excitement for me.
Speaker 2:But when I landed, I was totally lost. When I say lost means the culture is different, the people is different. I didn't know the law enforcement agency, I didn't know this country operated. So it was like for me it was like I don't know like how you remove a fish from the fish bowl. I was totally lost. I just didn't know, like what to do, how to communicate, and you don't see people on the streets. And, to be honest, bob Ian, today in many foreign countries, especially like like India, people are respect Americans a lot Like as a godly figure, as a God, like Bhagawan. Bhagawan means God, because a person who is an American, like with a white skin, they think oh wow like you know so, I always had that, I would say, that inferiority complex or self esteem.
Speaker 2:You know so that was the feeling which I had when I came here.
Speaker 1:Wow. So you referenced your trafficker and I know we're going to get into this a lot more, but just briefly, what was the? How did they find you? How did you find them? And you know you are making the decision to come here.
Speaker 2:I had no plans to come to the US and this trafficker was shopping. And here come to India. He was in Bombay. So by just by coincidence, with some family members, we connected at a restaurant and he see, traffickers are very smart, they're very intelligent, they see much more than any person can see or, in a law enforcement agency, can visualize. So he could see my education. I think he could see that I was a perfect fit and I had no clue. And he said, wow, like you know, and he made a decision and he was shopping for a lot of people and I didn't know that for anybody to come to the US for a job, there are certain criteria Like you have to be educated, you should know English, you should have some job experience. After I came here I realized he did apply for a lot of people to come, but the visa got rejected or denied, which was a blessing for those victims, but in my case it got approved.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're married. How old were your two kids at the time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I, my two sons my older son was seven years old and my younger son was four years old. But just to take one step backwards, bob and viewers, but how a person like me, or anyone who is educated, can become a victim of human labor trafficking so easily. Just one example Mines is an arranged marriage. I got married on May 29, 1994. And my father saw this girl. She was in Bombay, my wife Dancy, and he recommended it. It was not a forced marriage, but there was no photograph. So when I went to see her to her house, I didn't know who I'm looking like. You know, it was total I could. There was no dating, you can't go out, so. But we just met in the house, had a cup of coffee, and it was agreed mutually by the parents and by me.
Speaker 2:But I got married on four things, viewers and Bob, you know. Number one I got married on a trust, a faith, a promise and a commitment. And that is how traffickers are very smart and that is how I became a trap, because I also went on a trust. I trusted him. And in India it's a culture, bob, if my sons, my two sons, if they meet you or anybody, they will call you uncle and if it's your wife, they'll call her auntie Anybody, even if he's on the streets, if he's somebody's elder. That is how we have been raised, but that does not mean that's a blood relation. But that's your respect.
Speaker 1:Yes. So you were inclined to give trust. The guy knew how to gain your trust and get you over here. How quickly did it turn into something very different than what you thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2:It was within 24 hours of my landing when did you land? Yeah, see again. It was in Cincinnati, ohio. This isn't New York.
Speaker 1:This isn't Chicago, this isn't Miami, this isn't Houston. This is in middle America, little Cincinnati, ohio.
Speaker 2:Yes, and see how I became, how I was manipulated, tricked and trapped. So the day I landed, my trafficker asked me Harold, are you carrying any cash? And Bob and viewers, I was carrying $1,000 cash from India and that was a big money for me. I said, yes, I got $1,000 cash. He told me, harold, this is America, this is US, you can't keep any cash on you, it is not safe. So I was like, oh shoot, I didn't know that is. I trusted him and so I gave my cash, all the cash and all the documentation.
Speaker 2:That is the biggest number one red flag, the biggest mistake I did in my life. The first day, because I trusted him and I thought that it is in the safe custody, like you keep in a bank locker and rest is all history. He made us work hours and come here to work for a manufacturing company. It's everything in black and white, I don't want to name it. But then we were made to work in a restaurant the very first day, the day we landed, and labor trafficking in the United States of America. Bob happens at four places where I got re-victimized Restaurants, gas stations, convenience stores, motels. It's a $150 billion industry.
Speaker 1:Say that number again, harold, how big $150 billion industry.
Speaker 2:$150 billion industry. The risk factor is very thin. The profit margins are very thick. Even today out of 10, 9 traffickers do not get prosecuted. And I'm very happy and very I don't know how to respect you that you're doing this event or program, creating awareness, because the fear has to be on the trafficker or the perpetrator, not on the victims, and this traffickers are so intelligent. It's a very well-planned business. They'll provide accommodation within the premises or just 100 meters away. So when I was working at these restaurants I was not even like 50 meters away from the restaurant, so they provided me one bedroom apartment. It was just walking distance. So labor is available 24 hours.
Speaker 2:The biggest profit in human labor trafficking in the US is labor and we are not aware of that because we get paid monthly in our country and he knows that they don't pay you any salary. So lodging boarding is taken care. Many immigrants who come from Mexico. They come through the border walking so they do not have a bank account. It's a common trend even today, friends and Bob, that traffickers or perpetrators in labor trafficking with hold the salary of minimum 8 months to 1 year. So it's all pre-planned and they'll tell the Mexican or the immigrant. When you go back to your country, I'll give back your salary. So once he's in your grip, you can't do anything, and that is what he had done with us, and I didn't know how to operate a thermostat. We used to sleep on the floor.
Speaker 1:I was going to say tell people how well furnished your apartment was.
Speaker 2:We was taking one bedroom apartment with no furniture. There was no chair, there was no microwave. We used to sleep on the floor. So there was a floor was of a carpet. But I still remember in two weeks we started working from 14 hours to 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days.
Speaker 2:My wife, dancy Disuza, was not supposed to work as per the agreement. I came because she was on an H4 dependent visa. So were my kids, which we didn't know. What is the H4 dependent visa? So legally she was not supposed to work. But he made her work and he fixed her salary, $2,000 a month. And he says that you have two kids, you've got to buy a house.
Speaker 2:So we were staying in this apartment, no furniture, nothing. So I still remember after two weeks we lived as a joint family back in India with my parents. So the first night when I was with my wife, we were walking home at night two o'clock. I was so excited to see my two kids. You know that I opened the door with so much excitement that my younger son was waiting for us and he slept near the door and I hit the door so hard on his head that in it today triggers me and my older son was sleeping six feet away on the floor like a rat. So these are certain examples. That breaks down the victim in labor trafficking and you fall into that grip, bob. Thank you.
Speaker 1:So you're working 12 to 16 hours a day, every day, 365, and the boys are staying by themselves in the apartment, locked in, basically.
Speaker 2:Yes, see, it is such a big. I'm so happy that you could observe this, and I didn't know that in the US that you cannot leave the kids alone in the house.
Speaker 2:There has to be some caretaker and I think there's some age limit of 14 years or 12 years minimum. We didn't know that. But here our trafficker compelled us. We had no choice. And my kids were my weakness, of course, yes, and then down the road when, again, it's a long journey like job and family came to pick up my kids when I was after two years or three years, when I was trying to find the case against my trafficker look at the synopsis how the thing flipped. But when I was going through this, nobody came to help me.
Speaker 1:How long were you in this situation, Harold?
Speaker 2:It was 18 months the same year, in the year 2003,. Bob and viewers how I became a victim of debt bondage In the month of August of 2003,. My perpetrator tells me Harold, you've got to take a bank loan. I said no, I don't need a bank loan, I just need my salary. He says no, you've got to buy a house, you've got two kids and you've got to build a credit. And me, coming from India 20 years back, there was no credit card or credit score. I didn't know anything, but anyway, he drives me to a bank in the afternoon and within five minutes I sign some documents and there's a five-figure check in my name.
Speaker 2:All traffickers and perpetrators are multi-millionaires and he was staying in a multi-million dollar house. He had a very lavish car. He drives me to his house. He had pre-planned everything. He takes me to his bar room, he puts a scotch in a short glass and tells me Harold, cheers, let's celebrate. So by the time I gulp the scotch and goes down my stomach, he removes a cheat from his pocket and he tells me Harold, you owe me this money. He flipped in one second. I lost four things. I lost my voice, I lost my courage, I lost my hope and I lost my freedom. And before I could realize what happened to me and I was thinking how the hell I'm going to pay back this money, he taps me on the back and tells me come on, come on, let's go. You owe me much more. So that was dead bondage, which I didn't realize. And next day, bob, he withdrew all the money from my bank account.
Speaker 2:But I'm a strong believer of faith. F-a-i-t-h. My trafficker always told me it's in your fate, f-a-t-e, that you'll be a slave till you die. He should tell me like that, it's in your fate. You've got to work. But God had a different plan. I believe in faith. That same cheat came in the hands of the FBI. I gave them when my case was with the FBI. After couple of years I think in 2007, they matched the handwriting. See how small things you know, how miracles happen in your life, how God holds your hand and takes you out of the storm. Where my trafficker said that he'll kill me, my trafficker hired a guy to kill me.
Speaker 1:So there are a lot of people who you said that the trafficker called you Harold, but that's not what he called you. What did he call you?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that's a very good question. Even today in labor trafficking in the United States of America, every victim has only one nickname. My trafficker is to always snap his finger like this and tell me hey, illegal, come here. So I was never ever called by my name, harold, I was always called illegal. He's to snap his finger. So what happens in the mind, body and soul of a victim? He or she thinks that they're a criminal, and that is what I thought. He always told me that Americans do not like brown skin guys, and I believed him. They don't like immigrants. So he brainwashed me. So I was very scared of Americans. Had I met you about more than 10 years back, I would not have talked to you Because I was scared that you'll get deported.
Speaker 2:They use four words even today to immigrants of labor trafficking Number one, I'll get you arrested. Number two, I'll get you handcuffed and when they say handcuffed they do by action. Number three, I'll get you jailed. And number four, I'll get you deported. And no human beings. Bob would like to hear these four words, because all are innocent, all are. Come here to do something good.
Speaker 2:And another thing I realized which I didn't know for any common man to survive in the United States of America, you need four things you need a state ID, you need a work permit, you need a social security card and you need freedom. And how I was telling the FBI agent. I was telling everybody, the law enforcement agencies, how did you take a bank loan in my name? And they were applied for a bank loan. I said show me one bank in the world where you'll get a bank loan without applying. And later on, at one day, when I was doing a presentation, the bulk clicked because he had my SSN number, he had all my documentations and I had no clue. I didn't know what was in SSN Bob.
Speaker 1:So again, the entire timeline, and I want to hear about how you guys got out of it. But the entire timeline from day one to the time you started to get out of this, how much time was that?
Speaker 2:It was a very long journey so I'll just give some. It's just the tip of the iceberg, so I'll just touch some subjects on that. One is example to tell the viewers is that we never saw snow in our life. When I grew up as a child in India, we didn't have running water and electricity. So if you do not have electricity in the house, you cannot have a refrigerator. So I saw snow here for the first time and we got a note from the school teacher that both my sons cannot come to school if they do not wear snow jackets.
Speaker 1:Now we didn't know what is a snow jacket.
Speaker 2:They had sweaters from India. So this is a red flag. And the next day my chef even then got two snow jackets for my son. And then next day we got a note from the school teacher that both my sons cannot come to school if they do not wear snow gloves. Now they had gloves from India, which was again woolen. So these are some small red flags, but the biggest problem, how it happened, how we got out after one year my wife could not take it anymore because that's to always break down and she could not see me like work, do all the housekeeping, clean the toilets. We are working 16 other days. So one I still remember after like it was April in 2004,.
Speaker 2:My wife confronted the trafficker in the kitchen and told him she had the courage. And she told him that why don't you pay me my back wages? You had fixed $2,000 salary. Can you imagine, bob and viewers. He looks into her eyes straight and tells what are you talking? Who told you to work? You're illegal, you're not supposed to work. I can call the immigration department right now. Get you arrested, handcuffed, jailed and deported, can you imagine? So my wife was quiet. So then she tells him, okay, that why don't you pay Harald the $1,000 he gave you? I was just putting the buffet thing outside on the buffet table. So I go to him, he calls me and he tells me Harald, what cash, what money? What are you talking? You never gave me any cash.
Speaker 2:So like I was, like you know I was my emotions, feelings, sentiments were totally destroyed. I don't know how to explain to my viewers that if you lose money in a stock market, in a wrong decision or anything, you don't feel that hurt. This is a question of trust. And how do I prove it? But what do I say? I was heartbroken, but I always tell in God's home there is delay, no denial. My chef, he heard it and he told me later on oh my God, you are not getting being paid, because then nobody knew anything much. Well, then you got to run away from here Because he was in a similar situation in some other state, and that is how we went to the Blue Ash Police Station and then we were directed to the US Department of Labor at the federal building.
Speaker 2:My wife's case went to the Beijing Art Division at Columbus. It took a lot of time. He sold the restaurant, kicked us out and then he wanted us to get out of the country. So my story went from bad to worst. I was running like a rat and he was trying to kill me. He told me point blank Bob, you know I'll kill you and I could see it. I didn't know whether I'd die today in the evening or tomorrow morning.
Speaker 2:I just want to share one small example with my viewers which happened in my life. Bob always tell do not be scared what the child speaks. When the child is small, he blabbers something, but be scared what the child sees and what the child hears. So I was telling my wife in the afternoon I had lost almost 50% of my weight that I'm going to die. So my younger son, rohan, was playing on the floor, bob facing the wall, and then I get a tap behind after like 10 seconds and a look and he tells me Dadu, if you die, who will take care of my schooling? Who will take care of me? I look into his eyes.
Speaker 2:It was like God talking to me, and that is when I realized that. You know, I got to fight, I got to live. I cannot run away from the situation. So this is a long journey till my case went to the FBI in 2007. And that was one of the first cases of an H1B visa. But see again, bob and viewers, they thought it was a case of back wages and that is why we are creating awareness on human labour trafficking. So being trauma informed, being survivor informed, is very important. I always tell that trauma has no expiration date.
Speaker 1:Say that again.
Speaker 2:I always tell that trauma has no expiration date, because you think I don't get triggered. I am also human being. But I always decided either I had to live or die. I decided I will live. Either I had to live in hurt or happiness, I decided I will live in happiness. I had another two choices whether I had to live in pain or pleasure, I decided I will live in pleasure. Whether I had to live in fear or freedom, I decided I will live in freedom.
Speaker 2:But then it is like running a marathon. I have got to work on this every day, every minute, to keep my mind in a positive way. It does not happen. You have got to work for it. That is why I like to join the prayer group every Tuesday and then I go to church Whenever I get time. I am a strong believer of faith. I go for walks, I try to work with victims and because when I see anybody smile getting freedom, it gives me a lot of joy. Like Mother Teresa always said, do not waste time judging people, just love them. So just because somebody looks very shabby or is a brown skin guy, you don't know what is going on in his mind, body and soul. His behaviors might be negative, but his intentions might be good. We have to look at his intentions. We have to look at his heart. We have to look at his feelings. Thank you.
Speaker 1:To come out of your experience that you've had with that kind of an attitude is amazing. Very quickly will you share with viewers and listeners how you got out and then how that transitioned into being identified by President Obama and just kind of what's transitioned out of this horrible situation and how it's led you to where you are today?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I used to go to church at the same savior parish and then one of the parishioners told me to go and do a program at Cincinnati Works in downtown and I did my program there and I didn't know that I didn't have any work permit, nothing. And that is where I met one of the members of them and I would like to take her name. Her name was Jodi Dries-Ganot. She's an attorney now and she was a lawyer. She took one of the classes and said if anybody has any problem they'll help. So that was the first light.
Speaker 2:I went to her and rest his history. Then she got me connected with the White House not with the White House, but with the FBI. So my case went to the FBI, but they all navigated me to FBI. Once my case was with FBI, they granted me CP continued present status. So many viewers they don't know that even if you don't have a passport nothing, no documentation but if you're a victim of labor trafficking, he or she is entitled for continued present status. After that they're entitled for a U visa or a T visa, then a permanent residency card and then eventually the US citizenship. That is the path I walked.
Speaker 2:And now I can do the talk.
Speaker 1:So you got out of this whole situation in 2007,? Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, the process started with the FBI. They did all the investigation. I was very scared. I was told that I'll get jailed, I'll get deported, because my case was with the FBI. So I was not coming out openly with the FBI agent because I always had the fear and the FBI agent special agent knew that.
Speaker 2:I think she did her investigation and I just want to give an example. She came to my house where my wife was sexually abused and she came to know through the investigation. So she came with another investigator and they came to my house. It was a very emotional scene that day to cross verify that this happened, because we never spoke about that. And I just want to tell that this FBI agent was so strict or so professional. Once she realized that we are victims of human labor trafficking, she flipped, bob. She always came to me like Mother Teresa yeah, so I really.
Speaker 2:And once she came to my house and then she realized that I was scared she could see my body language she went out. What made her happen? I don't know. She came back, she knocked and then she told me Harold, I'm here to help you To get your permit residency card, to get you freedom. I'm not here to deport you or jail you, do whatever you want to support your family.
Speaker 2:Because I was working at a store under table with cash, and I was thinking that if she comes to know she'll prison me. But she said I'm only here to help you, I don't care what you do to support your family. That touched my heart, so, and second time, she got food for us Indian food and that is how, slowly, gradually, we started building trust on the FBI agent that she's genuinely trying to help me and not deport me or not to put me in prison. And she was very honest lady, because my trafficker said that I have graced the palm of the law enforcement agency. So it took us a little time, but then eventually I got out. Then, in 2008, the Cincinnati Works got me a job at Cincinnati Children's Hospital and then my life changed. I flipped the script of my life.
Speaker 1:So tell us about that please.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I always had a burning desire. I don't know, but I never. I used to not talk. For 10 years, bob and friends, viewers, I was not talking. For 10 years. It was only my wife. I used to go to church.
Speaker 2:I was told by the trafficker that they'll expunge or throw my kids if they come to know that we are illegal. No documentation. But once I started working for Cincinnati Children's Hospital, I was working the materials management department at a very low level. I didn't have a very big salary. I don't mind sharing my salary, it was $11.70. But that was a big money for me. And since I was working second shift, I used to get a dollar extra differential. But I used to work 16 hours a day, bob and friends. So every time my pay-per-day my weeklies was 120 hours Because I wanted to empower my kids. That was my goal. I wanted to set an example for my sons.
Speaker 2:We went through so much trauma, so much shame, so much stigma that I was totally destroyed. My self-esteem was gone. I could not even talk. I was so ashamed of myself. I always tell Bob and viewers that I failed on four-piece. I failed as a parent, I failed as a protector, I failed as a provider and I failed as a person. But I flipped those four-piece into passion, purpose, power and prayers. That's why I always tell people you can turn obstacles into opportunities. We need to fight, we have to be optimistic. Nobody can decide my destiny like my traffic or perpetrator. Who is he? Because when he tried to kill me he had a guy. I was hospitalized, doctors gave up, but I always tell the fear of death from that day went from my mind, body and soul. Bob, everyone has to die, whoever it is on this planet. So God does not give visa for more than 36,000 days, only for few days. 36,000 days is 100 years, 100 years. I am not going to live.
Speaker 2:So things changed. And then I still remember, like once I started working and I got the job there. I still remember on September 18th 2011,. We bought this house. This is where I am talking right now. You know, and no sorry, it was on June 27th, june 27th 2011,. That's Danzi's birthday, my wife's birthday. The closing was not going on for 8 months, for whatever reasons, because we didn't have a bank loan, we didn't have the bank credit. But eventually it happened On June 27th, my wife's birthday, in the morning 10 o'clock, and the same day we moved here, on September 18th 2011, I bought the first car for my son, the Toyota Prius. That is my father's birthday. You know I always carry my dad's photograph, so it is my father's birthday. I lost him in the year 2000. So I remember all the dates. I still remember January 5th 2012,. I got a cell phone first for my young son, rohan. So things started transforming. And then it's a blessing my trafficker used to wear glasses, bob and viewers and used to always tell, used to remove glasses, but used to tell me when he used to wear his glasses, harold, he is not using it, it is illegal. You can't even move one inch away from my side and you know what God did.
Speaker 2:On December 16th 2015, president Barack Obama announced my name at the White House on the United States Advisory Council on Human Trafficking. President Barack Obama was the first president in the history of America who started an advisory council on human trafficking. He appointed 11 survivors and I was the first Asian American who was appointed there. I don't know how it happened. People told me at a press conference, harold, how did you get appointed? And I had no clue. I never applied.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really, it was a question which really blew my mind and I never applied and I said, yeah, I don't know how I got appointed, but on January 5th 2016, I was inside the White House, so I always believed it's a blessing. So whenever I go to the White House, I always tell, I make a small prayer and I should always tell that I'm representing all the survivors. It's not me, and I always carry my father's photograph. You know, because I still am a strong believer of faith, I think of all the victims and survivors, because I represent them. I want to be the voice for the voiceless victim. And it was during that period, bob and viewers, that I was inspired to start a non-profit organization. I had no ABC how to start a non-profit organization and that is how ICE Open International took birth.
Speaker 1:And what is the mission? What do you do exactly at ICE Open International?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the overall objective of ICE Open International is to be the voice for the voiceless victim, and it is focused on prevention, education, protection and empowerment of victims, survivors, vulnerable populations and community members worldwide, and I'm mainly focused on labor trafficking. I just want to share with the viewers that through a flight, I have worked with so many hundreds of Mexican people from different countries Nepal, bangladesh, india, you name it and they come through the border. They have taken them somewhere from nine months to one year to reach the US. Out of ten, only one makes it. They run out of food. So when they run out of food, they eat grass and leaves. When they run out of water, they drink their own urine. And this I'm talking like 20 years back, with whom I worked. So this is a small example I want to share with my viewers that Bob is at Niagara Falls and he sees two kids drowning.
Speaker 2:He saves them and by the time he saves them he sees another two kids drowning. And then he sees me at Niagara Falls and he calls me Harold. Harold, come here, I need your help. So we go and save the other two kids. So we got four kids whom we saved and by the time we see another two kids being drowned. So we go and save the six kids and then I run away from there. So Bob gets mad at me and he tells me Harold, harold, where are you going? Come here, I need your help. Then I tell Bob, please take care of the six kids. I want to see who is drowning these kids. So we need to focus on the roots, not on the fruits. So if we focus on the roots, the fruits has to be good.
Speaker 2:So that is the reason I have done a research here that in the United States of America, friends, that there is no full stop or a stop on labor trafficking. To create a stop we have to go to the source countries like Mexico, guatemala, india, pakistan, nepal and tell people please do not enter the United States of America illegally or through shortcuts or do the do's and don'ts. So always tell if you enter America legally it is heaven, if you enter America illegally it is hell. So always I promote in my talks you know that if you or anyone you suspect is a victim of human labor trafficking, sexual abuse or LGBTQ harassment, please call in the United States of America 1-888-373-788. That's a national human trafficking number. You will never get prosecuted, you will be saved, and same way if you're in Canada, you call 1-833-900-1010. So there are resources available.
Speaker 1:And we'll put those numbers up. We'll put those numbers in the show notes and we'll also put it up on the screen later on. So thank you for sharing that. You mentioned earlier, harold, and this is even in the introduction, because I've got a lot of people who follow me, who are HR professionals, and I think about what did you tell me?
Speaker 2:You said restaurants hotels, gas stations, convenience stores, more.
Speaker 1:Gas stations and convenience stores. So how can people make sure that the people that they're hiring are actually not people that are coming to them through the human trafficking, the labor trafficking, supply chain?
Speaker 2:That's a very good question, bob, like in this particular profession. You're talking about these recruitment agencies or companies. This is the four areas where I got re-victimized, but I just want to share you where again, many companies I don't do name it, which you'll get it like multinational companies in the US they outsource, for example, even for employment, for their IT jobs. One example I get a lot of calls. Number two, for housekeeping, maybe banks they outsource it to a legitimate organization, but this organization should be investigated whom they're employing. This organization employ undocumented people and they don't even pay them one fourth of the salary and they do all this work cleaning up, doing stuff.
Speaker 2:I want to give an example where I was utilized, where my wife and myself we worked not for a financial institute or somebody where you pick up stuff and you go and deliver it to some other location Okay, I don't know to name it, but the person who was allotted was getting $20 plus we were paid $7.25. But these are all things happen. So this is a very good point. So I always believe that it's good. Those organizations get the contract for billions of dollars, but when they are outsourcing to other people, they have to ensure that they are being paid what those employees, and that needs to be done.
Speaker 1:One of the things that you taught me, harold, and I want you to share with people is I think hopefully everybody who's listening to this will be appalled that this is even happening and that if you have an inclination like you see somebody, you gave the phone number. So I want to make sure that we don't forget that and maybe even you repeat it again. But if you see somebody in a hotel, restaurant, convenience store, gas station that you suspect is a victim of human trafficking, if you approach them and say, hey, you look like you might be in trouble, can I help? What is their reaction? Likely going to be based on the brainwashing.
Speaker 2:I think at the first appearance or first meeting or in second meeting, if you ask them that you are a victim of human trafficking, they'll say no, because number one is the question of trust. Number two that victim himself is not aware that he or she is a victim of labour trafficking. So you have to understand that. I want to just give a small example. If you meet a Mexican on the road or somebody walking and you ask him when do you work, he says I am working at a restaurant. I said oh. He says no. He says he asks him what do you do? He says I am working as a dishwasher. I said good man, how much salary do you get? He said I get $200., I said wow, so you get it like weekly. He says no, I get it like monthly. Then I said oh, so you work only five days a week. He says no, I work seven days a week, so no weekly off. So what time you go to work? He says I go in the morning nine o'clock, come back at 10, 11. So if you calculate that how many hours he's putting in a week and into a month, then he's not even getting $5 per hour and no overtime. But he's not aware. So he's been exploited. And this is how they do. And at times, if they provide them accommodation, he says the employer will say you owe me like $1,000 rent or for food. That is how these people work.
Speaker 2:Another example I want to give one of my friends, american friends. He's to follow me. He has come to my events. He's working for a very reputed airlines company, airlines, and his boss, lady boss, got interested. We never met with his boss, but she was following and she noted this hotline number which I told you and she used to go to this gas station for the last eight years Bob in the morning, have coffee in the evening, on a weekend, on a Christmas day, and always she found that same guy at the gas station. For eight years he didn't click and that bulb just clicked. Oh my God, I go in the morning, I go in the evening, go to buy chips on a Sunday. Saturday is always there. She dialed that number, hotline number, and that person got rescued. So it's a small thing, but one person's life was saved.
Speaker 1:So this now comes to the name of your organization, which is Eyes Open and being able to see the things, like you were just describing the guys there first thing in the morning, late at night, saturday, sunday, christmas hey, he's always here, right, that sounds like maybe somebody who's trapped and doesn't know how to get out. And if you call the phone number, are they always going to send somebody or are they going to ask you a bunch of questions? What would happen if you call that phone number?
Speaker 2:I think I advise all the viewers who are right now on the call Lena to make that I call just to check this national human trafficking hotline number and then I tell them I'm a thing, I'm just so you should always check it out also. And then, but if you call them, they take all the details and they work on it genuinely.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:The national human trafficking hotline number. They take it very, very seriously and they will direct in case. If you're calling, if you're say if you're in Ohio, in Toledo, they will redirect the call. They have the entire team, they know how to do that and they will ensure that that wherever you said I saw somebody at the restaurant or at a convenience store, they will make the proper investigation. They'll take your call very, very seriously and, if you can, but at the same breath you're safe, stable and secured, you're not into any problem. The trafficker will not know who called. So that is another thing. So you don't land into any problem but at the same breath you're saving somebody's life.
Speaker 1:I can't think of a higher calling. Harold is there. I mean, I know there is, I want to. I'm just trying to be mindful of the time because we could go on for more hours. The the work that you're doing. Like you say, you're saving lives and you're driving awareness and initiatives. I know you also serve the governor in the state of Ohio in the same capacity as an advisor. What else would you have us know as we start to bring this to an end? And I think particularly how people again can help, how people can get involved with Eyes Open International? How can people take this story that you've told us today and do something?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just. I just want to like one. First of all, thank you very much, bob, for inviting me on this particular platform. I just want to suggest to the viewers that you know be alert.
Speaker 1:Remember this.
Speaker 2:Save the hotline number on your cell phone Number. One number two follow Eyes Open International. That's a. It's a nonprofit organization. We are coming out with a very big conference on January 18 in Cincinnati. I'll share the flyer with you. It's the first conference, I think, organized by a survivor of labor trafficking and we heard from Department of Defense, pentagon top delegate coming as a keynote speaker, we are from the Attorney General's office, we have Dr Kalyani Gopal, we have Ridae Rao from India who's visiting us to do a presentation there. Wow, attending this conference, you can understand that.
Speaker 2:What are the what an individual can do? I just want to share, bob, like you are taking this personal interest. It's not that every time you have to give money, donation for a nonprofit. I'll give a classic example my victims of human trafficking, whether it is sex or labor, they get four things complimentary Diabetes, blood pressure, dental, dental and vision problem.
Speaker 2:My dental was all gone. I didn't know, and when I went to a normal dentist they said that it's out of my control. You have to go to a paradoontist. So anyway, to cut the long story short, I went to this paradoontist. His doctor's name is Dr Scott Sieberstein. It was, I think, almost more than 10K the amount, and I was thinking I had no medical. I was thinking what I'm going to do and?
Speaker 2:But can you imagine, viewers, how a human being, such a high profile doctor, dr Scott Sieberstein, I want to say he did everything free, very passionately until today.
Speaker 2:So today I can smile, thanks to him. So what I'm going to share is that if you're a professional, if you're a doctor, you are an attorney, you are a nurse or if you are a counselor, you can devote your professional time, maybe four hours a month, to somebody, a victim of labor trafficking or sex trafficking, or to the community, because many times people struggle. I was doing a presentation many years back and from the crowd one gentleman came and gave me his business card and they say but I'm an attorney or immigrants, so if you have any case of any immigrant, I'll do it free. I was so touched and then I realized that you know like, if there is time, talent and treasure of wisdom, how you can give back to the community. That's my only message to all the community members like you know, whichever way you can contribute, please do contribute in your own community, wherever you are, and always share love.
Speaker 1:If they were to reach out to Eyes Open International, would you be able to direct them to some local resources, wherever they might be?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have my website. We have my email ID. I share my cell phone number to be honest, because a lot of victims they call me from different countries Like so they call me, so I reach out, I try to help them. I got a lot of. I have 12 board of directors on my Eyes Open International. We have the FBI agent who did my case, so she's on my board of directors.
Speaker 2:So because I always believe, bob and viewers, that Eyes Open International is not my organization, it is registered under 501C3. Today Harold is still like that, tomorrow Harold is still like that, but this Eyes Open International is your organization, it is our organization and this will continue lifelong to save victims. You know, always tell four things to take from my journey Be happy, think positive, never quit and believe in yourself. Because my trafficker always told me once, so many times, harold means illegally, to tell me illegal, impossible, you will go to prison, you will get deported. I never told him, but I'm telling today in front of everyone, for you know, for him it was impossible that I'll go to prison. But I always tell you not to God and to myself Harold, I am possible.
Speaker 1:Amen, I am possible, exactly, exactly so, harold, like I said, you're an inspiration to me and I know you described yourself as a failure, which I don't agree with, but we can be friends and disagree on that point, but the thing that you know, I just draw so much from you. It's like Victor Frankel in Man's Search for Meaning you have chosen to be happy, you have chosen to be positive, you have chosen to find your purpose and you're living your life through that, and everybody who's listening or watching to this is going through some challenge, and it's you know. I don't want to rate one challenge higher or lower than another. Whatever your challenge is, it's big to you, but to listen to your story and everything that you and your family have been through and that you emerge from this stronger, positive and we left it. One of your high, high honors and in bits of note is you became a citizen of the United States this year.
Speaker 2:Yes, Very true Congratulations. Thank you very much. I'm very proud you are citizen and that means a lot to me.
Speaker 1:Well, we're very proud to have you as a US citizen. So thank you for not losing faith and trust in this country because of a bad actor who doesn't represent what this country is really, really about. But, harold, I value your friendship very much. I appreciate your courage and your willingness to share your story with everyone and if you are a listener, a viewer of this, I just can't encourage you enough to check out Eyes Open International and, as Harold said, whether it's your time, your talent, your treasure, your wisdom which is great I didn't know that one before but to be able to give what you do have to help people who are helpless and need any kind of assistance that you can provide to them. But with that, I'm going to go ahead and wind this down. Thank you again, harold. I just have so much love and admiration for you and thank you again for sharing your story today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, bob, good win.