The Bets Life

65. Reinventing Your Life Through Joy, Purpose, and Community With Jennifer Rudolph Walsh

• Betsy O'Brien

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0:00 | 44:47

How do you pursue joy, transform your life, and build something truly meaningful without a master plan? 

On today’s episode of The Bets Life Podcast, I speak with Jennifer Rudolph Walsh, co-founder of Godmothers bookstore in Summerland, CA. Prior to opening an independent bookstore, Jennifer was the former head of WME’s literary division and has worked with icons like Oprah, Sheryl Sandberg, and Arianna Huffington. Jennifer shares how a completely unplanned career led her into publishing and how a cross-country move opened the door to her most joyful chapter yet.

We chat about the magic of gathering, the importance of multi-generational friendships, and the philosophy behind Godmothers—a space built on connection and storytelling. Jennifer also opens up about her “sacred pause,” what it means to live from the heart, and why protecting your peace is the ultimate success metric.

 

In this episode, we cover:

  • Jennifer’s unexpected journey into publishing (and the internship that turned into a career) 
  • The concept of “godmothers” and the people who shape our lives 
  • Why taking accountability was the turning point in her early life 
  • What she learned from working alongside Oprah
  • The inspiration behind Godmothers bookstore and building community through books 
  • The power of gathering and why in-person connection matters more than ever 
  • Multi-generational friendships and how we can learn from those around us
  • Daily practices for cultivating happiness, peace, and alignment 
  • Paying attention to what’s a “full-body yes” and what’s a “f&%$ no”



You can celebrate the special women in your life and attend Godmothers Day at the bookstore on May 3rd from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.


Connect with Jennifer: 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jenniferrwalsh/

Website: https://godmothers.com/


Rent the Runway has created the shared closet of your dreams. Pick from 10,000+ premium styles. Sign up now at renttherunway.com and use code RTRXBOBREIN50 at checkout to save.


At Ritual, they know that better health begins with better ingredients. Use code THEBETSLIFE on https://ritual.com to save 20% on your first month.


Connect with Betsy: 

Visit my website: https://thebetslife.com/

Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebetslife/

Love the podcast? Subscribe, rate, review and share: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-bets-life/id1644549737

SPEAKER_00

Hi, and welcome to the Bets Life Podcast. I'm your host, Betsy O'Brien. Join me as I have authentic conversations to share and learn tips and insights into how we all can live our best lives. Lots of laughs, honest topics, and potential over shares are to be expected. Get ready to keep it inspired and also keep it real. Hello and welcome to the Bets Life Podcast. I have Jennifer Rudolph Walsh on today's episode. And Jennifer and I chat about so much we dive into joy and filling your day with more joy when a plan really clicks into place, multi-generational friendships, California living, and why she is now Callie Jen. And so much more. The importance of gathering, of reading books, and sharing stories. So I hope you enjoy today's episode. Thanks for listening. Welcome, Jennifer Rudolph Walsh, to the Bets Life Podcast. Thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to have you.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much for having me, Betsy.

SPEAKER_00

Yay! Well, we are going to dive into it. And you're a good spark. You're already ready. We're like, let's get this conversation started, which I love because we're going to cover a lot. I know. You are the co-founder of Godmother's Bookstore, which is here in beautiful Summerland, California, a couple minutes away from where I live. So I go all the time. And you are a longtime literary agent.

SPEAKER_01

Former. I retired six years ago.

SPEAKER_00

You retired, but then instead of, you know, just taking it easy.

SPEAKER_01

From agenting, not from life.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Exactly. I'm like, don't get it twisted. You're still doing a lot. So you spent three decades in publishing, previously head of WME's Worldwide Literary Lectures and Conference Divisions. You've worked with many celebrity clients, Oprah, Cheryl Sandberg, Ariana Huffington, Rob Lowe, just to, you know, name a casual few. Did you always know that you wanted to be in publishing or the literary world?

SPEAKER_01

I had absolutely no clue. Beyond, I had a summer job working for a fashion photographer while I was in college named Steven Mizell. It was at the kind of the brink of the beginning of the rise of the supermodels. So he was working for Vogue exclusively, and it was Cindy Crawford, Linda Evangelista, all of these supermodels, Christy Turlington, and I was his studio manager, and I loved it so much. I did that job for two summers. So I assumed I would just be a professional studio manager for him as soon as I graduated. But I went abroad for my junior year, and it was before email. I'm quite old, 59, so I never contacted him to say that I was gonna be a little late coming back for the summer. And he gave my job away. And I was so devastated, I couldn't believe it. And he's like, I hadn't heard from you in a year. I didn't know. So I had to get a new job, and my brother at the time, my brother still, but at the time, was working for a producer named Scott Rudin, a famous producer, and he introduced me to their book scout. And a book scout is somebody who reads all the books and recommends the books that would be good for movies. So I met with the Book Scout. It was a woman named Ruth Pomerance, who's still a friend to this day, and she said, I'll get you a publishing internship. Now I didn't know what publishing was, and I didn't know what an internship was, but I didn't let questions get in the way. I knew I needed a job. So she introduced me to a literary agent named Virginia Barber who hired me, and I was thrilled. And the first week she kept trying to send me home at four o'clock, and I was like, I don't understand. Like if you're here, I'm here. I would stay till seven o'clock every night. And after about two weeks, I finally went to her and I said, When do I get my pay? And she said it's an internship. And I said, Oh, okay. So when do I get my pay? And she said, No, no, no, it's an internship. And I was like, Oh, is this a charity? No. And I said, Oh, do you get paid? And she said, Yes. And I said, Oh, okay. So, based on this misunderstanding, I normally get$600 a week, but based on this misunderstanding, I'll accept only$300 a week from you. So she thought it was so hilarious that I was such a perfect young agent that she hired me on the spot for$300 a week for the free internship. And she felt an agent had been born. And so she ended up hiring me at the end of that summer to work full-time for my senior year. I worked for my dorm room. And then I ultimately graduated on a Saturday and started working for her full-time on a Monday. So no plan. It was just go, go, go.

SPEAKER_00

I love that story though, because it's just like the true reactions of yes, of youth of just like, well, what do you mean? Like, I just figured you'd hold the job for me. And he's like, I don't think so. And then you're like, Well, what do you mean? I haven't talked about any of the details of this, but I'm gonna get paid something.

SPEAKER_01

No discussion needed. No discussion needed. You've loved me for the last two years. And then also that I accepted an internship and didn't feel the need to say to anybody, what the hell's an internship?

SPEAKER_00

100%. And I'm sure then you were like, Oh, well, maybe I should have started leaving at four if I'm not gonna get it.

SPEAKER_01

I showed my value so much so that I got paid.

SPEAKER_00

This is like one of the many reasons I love having the podcast because usually when I ask that question, it is a circuitous route. Like it's not this, like, oh yeah, I knew I always wanted to do this. It's just what you're talking about. Like this kind of changed and landed in my lap in a way, and obviously you worked hard, but it wasn't the path you imagined.

SPEAKER_01

I would have been a studio manager for Stephen Myself in this day.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I love that. I mean, had you always been an avid reader?

SPEAKER_01

Nope. That's another thing. I was not the A plus kid, I was not the studious perfectionist type A at all. I was like in the back of the bus smoking cigarettes, like barely getting by. Got kicked out of high school for non-attendance and got to college because, you know, so you mentioned that my store is called Godmothers, and how we define a godmother is not necessarily somebody who's been given that religious distinction at birth, but somebody who instead saw something special in you and watered the magic seeds. So one of the godmothers in my life was a woman named Mrs. Lifton, who was the headmistress of the school that I got kicked out of my high school and I went to another school, and Miss Lifton was the headmistress there. And she basically said, you know, I can see that your mother can't make you do anything. You know, you're too strong-willed, and your mother is a single mom and she leaves very early in the morning and comes home very late. So she said, I'm not gonna call your mother when you don't come to school. I'm gonna deal directly with you. And if you come to school every day, I'll pay you a dollar a day to come to school, which at that time was enough for a pizza and a diet coke. So it was maybe there. And she said, if you do your part, you come every day. I'm gonna do my part and I'm gonna get you into a college that is gonna, you know, see you for who you are and you can grow. And so I did my part and she did her part. She got me into Kenyan College, and it was at Kenyon College that I first discovered literature and that authors could be alive because up until that point I thought only white, straight dead dudes wrote books.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, you're not wrong though, but you think of the high school curriculum. I didn't know. You're not wrong, you're not wrong.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't know, and I fell in love with Tony Morrison and Alice Walker and Maya Angelou and Kim Chernen and Maxine Humphingston, and that was really the beginning of my calling, calling. So when I did get a job working for Virginia Barber Literary Agency, I was a reader by that time, but not like a lifetime reader, but I was engaged in the reading process.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Interesting. I like how that woman really took a chance on you.

SPEAKER_01

She was one of the first real godmothers that I had who saw something special in me where everybody else just saw, here comes trouble.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I think she treated you like an adult or like your own person. And it probably was one of the first times that you felt like, oh, I'm responsible for some of my choices.

SPEAKER_01

100%. Well, when I had gotten kicked out of high school in the middle of my junior year, my mother was completely devastated. I mean, she was doing everything she could to keep me in this school as it was, and she was so devastated, and I thought to myself, oh, I've kind of ruined myself before I've even started. And nobody can fix this but me. And I started to have this sort of what I call the penny drop, the penny of accountability, the penny of this is my one life. Like I can blame, oh, the divorce or oh this or all this, you know, angry stuff that you know a teenager feels. But in that moment of seeing my mom so upset and having this high school tell me that one of the reasons they were kicking me out is because not one of my teachers wanted to recommend me for college. And I realized, oh, this is on me. If I want to have a big life, if I want to have a good life, nobody's gonna create that for me. My mother's done everything she can for me. And so it really was that accountability that began a kind of what I would call a virtuous cycle.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Well, you certainly turned it around. I like that under scene because I always talk about that when people are like, well, every, you know, job I have, my coworkers don't like me or everything. And it's like, okay, but what's the common denominator? Right, exactly. Like every now and then one person doesn't like you, or one person you okay, that happens, right? You're not for everyone. But like, what is the pattern here? So, like you say, it's not just one teacher that didn't like you. If you're like all my teachers, it's all of them.

SPEAKER_01

Betsy, I have a similar thing just in my own life. If I'm having a problem with one person, it's an anomaly. If I'm having a problem with two people, it's a stop, look, and listen. It doesn't mean that it's me. It can be a coincidence, but it's like stop everything. Third time, it's automatically me. I'm like, if there's three issues happening, it's to me. I go right to what am I putting out there? What's happening for me? You know, so one person, okay, anomaly. Two, potentially a coincidence, but stop, look and listen. And then three, automatically me.

SPEAKER_00

Wait, I really, really like that. I love thinking of that that way. Like, let's really look at it with a bird's eye view here. Let's really look at the different scenarios.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean, it's like opposite razor, right? Like, very unlikely that three random things are happening and it's not something that you're putting out there.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly, exactly. Okay. Well, I want to dive in. I know you co-produced Oprah's The Life You Want Tour in 2014. How did this experience change what you do?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it changed my life completely. So, for one thing, I was that kid that was at the television at three o'clock every day watching the Oprah Winfrey show. In a lot of ways, I feel like she raised me as she did millions of other people. You know, I learned so much about the language of emotion and purpose and meaning from watching that show, meditation. And so, for one thing, I felt that I proved that I manifested her presence in my actual life through practicing the things that she taught us, you know, on that show. I know.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, can you share that with the people list? I'm like, how do I manifest Oprah into my life? I gotta come to Godmothers more. I gotta post up every single day there. No, I'm just kidding. But yeah, incredible that you are actually friends with her now.

SPEAKER_01

Very blessed that, you know, through my work, I was able to represent her as a literary agent. And then through that representation, we were able to sort of co-produce this incredible arena tour in 2014 that was so life-changing to me that when the tour ended and she understandably wanted to go back to her perfect storybook life, I wanted to stay on the road. I had like an evolution of my dream where I realized that people write in silence and in solitude, and most people read in solitude. But there was something about being there, like being with an audience that made me kind of wanted to evolve my dream to include the live experience. And from that, another women's tour that I founded called Together Live was born, and I spent five years on the road with that, which was also amazing.

SPEAKER_00

And I think it ties into what we'll talk about, but bringing people together obviously is a huge part of what you do, and definitely I would say a part of you starting Godmothers, of course. So getting into that for Godmothers, you opened up the bookstore September 8th, 2024, which is significant for me because September 8th is my birthday, and I missed your opening because I was out of town. I was like, no, but I'll always remember the date. Opened September 8th, 2024 with Victoria Jackson. So how did you get to know Victoria? How did you know you wanted to open the bookstore? How did this idea come to be?

SPEAKER_01

Well, okay, so I had moved to Montecito after I completed my chapter in New York. I had spent several years in what I called my sacred pause, which was really just learning how to go from being a human doing to a human being. You know, after 30 years of moving a thousand miles an hour, I moved up a mountain with my husband and our empty nest. We filled it with mini donkeys and mini cows and many goats and many dogs and many dogs, not many dogs. And I really just had to learn how to be in my life. I've been farming out a lot of my life to people that could help me so that I could just be always working. And a few years of just stillness. And I can say this without laughing because it's true. I didn't know how to pump gas. I had never driven on a highway, I didn't return my own packages. A lot of like the details of my life were farmed out to the people that helped me raise my children. And so I just spent a few years in what I call the sacred pause learning how to actually be and how to run my own life. And I didn't know if I would work again. Like I wasn't thinking of that. I was just following the unfolding. The way I described it, it was like driving at night with my high beams on. I could only see Sarah in front of me, but I trusted that I was finding my way home. Like I just was like, okay, well, we'll see what happens. And I had met Victoria at a dinner party maybe two years earlier, and we clicked instantly. I mean, we had the weirdest coincidences. We were born in the same hospital in Long Island, New York. We both had our first sons born on the same day. We both had two sons and a daughter. We loved gathering people together. So we had a lot in common, and the friendship just took off instantly. And then one day I was going to meet her at the new Maddie's Tavern, you know, the Auberg in Los Olivos.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yes, beautiful.

SPEAKER_01

It just opened at the time, and I was driving to meet her, which by the way, even driving was a big deal because that was the furthest I'd ever driven. I had to learn to drive. I mean, I moved here from New York City. I had a license, but I had never really driven. So anyway, I'm driving there, and my sister calls me, and she had just come back from visiting a friend in Palm Beach, Florida, and she said, Oh my gosh, we spent every night at this incredible place called Books and Bottles. And I said, What was that? And she said, Oh, it's this great bookstore. Every night, you know, would be games and talks, and then really great bottles of wine. And I just, without thinking, Betsy, I just said, Oh, I think I'll do that here. Like I had never thought of it. It just she said it and I just out with it. And I got to lunch with Victoria and I told her, and she just said, Well, I'll just do it with you. And that was it. It was sealed with a hug.

SPEAKER_00

That is amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Godmothers was open 15 months later. That was it. We never turned back.

SPEAKER_00

That is so wild that you heard that, and something in you was just like, Yep, that's it. That's what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know what it was, honey? I didn't miss the book business. I didn't miss business. I didn't miss managing people, I didn't miss bullshit, but I missed the book tribe. I missed getting together and diving into the deep end of the conversation about stories and ideas and things that really mattered. And so, like, I love Santa Barbara. The minute I moved here, I felt so embraced by the community, and I love the people here. But sometimes I felt like I can only talk about the weather and hiking so much.

SPEAKER_00

Totally.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not a like a traditionally religious person, and I felt like there was no place to go to gather around the stuff that really matters. And so it's like that came through, and it was just like, yes, let's do it. And as I said, sealed with a hug, we never looked back.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's such a nice story. I like that you guys were both so on the same page. Haha, pun intended.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, she's a giant beauty mogul, and she also runs a medicine philanthropic endeavor. So she's very, very busy and you know, is in LA during the week, but she has always been very rooted in this community and loves gathering people together. And I had spent my lifetime in books, so it just was a very natural fit. And our business is very rooted in love and friendship, and you can feel it.

SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_01

And in my whole life, nobody had ever called me Jen. Never. And I moved here. I'm like, hi, I'm Jennifer Rudolph Walsh. Hey Jen. I love it. I love it so much. So yeah, I'm Callie Jen.

SPEAKER_00

I think Cali Jen is perfection. It's such the tip of the California experience. It's like, of course, people can't be bothered to say like Jennifer all the time. Like, who what? Way too much. Who would do such a thing? The whole name.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so yeah, what made you choose this area then? Like, how did that go too? Like, was it hard for you to leave the East Coast? Was it hard to start over here?

SPEAKER_01

Having completed my chapter at my former company, you know, COVID happened, and suddenly we're all taking these hikes every day during the lockdown. And I'm like, oh, what is this nature? Like, wow. And so I really got very taken by this idea of focusing on my relationship to nature. So my husband and I moved to San Francisco because we honestly couldn't imagine not living in a city. And we were in the redwoods every day. But it was a hard time to be in San Francisco. I mean, it was August of 2020. COVID had really hit San Francisco hard. I mean, everything was boarded up. It was intense. And so in April of 2021, we rented a house in Montecito for a month. We hadn't seen our families, like we hadn't seen anybody. We brought everybody together. And it was like heaven here. And my husband one day was sitting at the honor bar having a rose in the afternoon. And he's like, just so you know, I'm not leaving.

SPEAKER_00

Wait, that's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that was it. We really never went back. I mean, we sold our apartment in Abstentia and we rented here for a while until the place that we now live, we found that two miles up a mountain.

SPEAKER_00

That is hilarious. I mean, you gotta write the honor bar a letter or something and be like, thank you for your patio, Rose.

SPEAKER_01

He's like, look at this. Everybody's so happy. Everybody, the sun is shining, there's not a mask in sight. He's like, unless this is like some scary cult, like Rosemary's baby, he's like, I'm not leaving.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm grew up here, I'm from here, and then my husband is from Ohio. And you know, sometimes I'm like, Well, do you miss, you know, fall and the seasons? And he's like, Yeah, but you know, we travel, but we come home to Santa Barbara. We come home to the place everyone will, he's like, Why would I ever not want to be here? And I'm like, okay, phew, thank God. I'm glad you love it here. What a relief.

SPEAKER_01

I literally hate when I lived on the East Coast listening to people talk about oh, hiking and barbecuing and NPR. And I would be like, get a life, you people. And now I am the worst. I am literally I know it.

SPEAKER_00

It sucks you would before you know it, you're like, oh no, I am eating tacos and buying tangerines by the roadside. How did this happen? How did this happen?

SPEAKER_01

I am, you know, at the farmer's market. No, I'm telling you right now, anybody at East Coast tries to bad vibe me. Like, I accept your condemnation, you poor zombies. Like, you don't even know.

SPEAKER_00

You put the bad vibe. I love it. Okay, so you obviously mentioned you live with your husband, two mini donkeys, two micro cows, a pair of goats, and four dogs. You're also a mother and a grandmother. So again, we're talking about you made the switch and then you went hard that you were like, I am.

SPEAKER_01

That's go home. Go home. You should see my vegetable garden.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh. I would love to, actually. I'm sure it's magnificent. So now you're like fully embedded in country life, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01

It's a little green acres, which is before your time. It's a little ja gabor in country life, but yes.

SPEAKER_00

But definitely more country mouse than city. For sure. City city rat, city mouse. I don't know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. Our daughter lives in Philly with our grandchildren, and we love Philly. It's perfect. But you know, we're like, wow, it's like feels like a big city for us.

SPEAKER_00

That's how I am. I love traveling, I love going to cities, but then I'm like at my core, I want to come home and I want to be in nature, and I don't want to be in the hustle and bustle all the time. So I'm gonna be honest, I didn't really know that a micro cow existed. So how did you start like collecting the animals?

SPEAKER_01

Well, my husband doesn't realize this because he acts like he's been taken hostage. But the truth is he put it in my ear because when we first bought this house, he sent me a architectural digest. See, our house is two miles up a mountain, so it's stainless steel and cinder block. I call it prison chic. It really is, it's a hundred percent fire resistant.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say, you are fireproof for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It does definitely look like a very upscale prison, literally cinder block and stainless steel. So he sent me an architectural digest of Patrick Dempsey and his wife and their place in Malibu, which has a similar vibe. In the you know, the pictures, they had two mini donkeys. And so that was it. He planted the seed, he incepted me, and then that was the beginning. Of all of our animals, really, we love Frankie and Georgie, our mini donkeys, the best. They're so soulful.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I love that. You have the vegetable garden. So, yeah, you've created your own little bubble.

SPEAKER_01

Our house is fully solar and geothermal, so we're like completely off the grid if necessary. Power independence.

SPEAKER_00

See, now I know how you get reading done, though. You're just in your own little curated space up there. So getting back to Godmothers too and what you do there, I didn't know this, but it's a slight flex that I love that the name came from a Prince Harry reference for you all. That he would reference you, Jackson and Winfrey, as his fairy godmothers. And so, right away, like when he said that, were you like, that's the name of the store, or eventually?

SPEAKER_01

I have been called fairy godmother my whole career. I had like a wand on my desk that Sue Monk Kid had given to me. That was the reference I was very used to. When we thought about naming the store, it was actually Oprah that said, you have to call it Godmothers, because she loved it. The party had just happened and it was all very cute. And I was worried about it, and so was Victoria. It took us both a moment to fall in love with the idea of it. But you know, the truth is both God and mother are my two favorite words. So once we wrap our arms around it, it was perfect.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I think it's so sweet. I love the imagery of the three of you being these fairy godmother figures.

SPEAKER_01

Now, when you're in Godmothers, we have a whole godmother gallery, so you see all of these incredible women that have paved the way for others. So we really kind of use that concept. You know, you first walk in, and it's like the store is literally dedicated to all these people who have lit the way for each and every one of us.

SPEAKER_00

No, absolutely. And what you're talking about is you have like framed photos on the walls, all these different women, historical. It is really, really special to walk into that. And for me, my godmother is one of my mother's friends in town, and she growing up always gave me either an ornament every year or a book. And so we have always shared a love of reading, and she would give me books all the time. So when Godmothers opened, my mom and my godmother and her daughter and I, we all went because we're like, well, we have to go.

SPEAKER_01

That's the and you have to come back for Godmother's Day this year, which is the Sunday before Mother's Day. Think Friendsgiving or Galantine's Day. We're finding our own holiday. It's called Godmother's Day, and our whole thought is that Mother's Day can be complicated, you know, for people who don't or have difficult relationships with their mothers, estrangements. But Godmother's Day is easy, no complication. Just celebrate those that lit the way. So come on Sunday. I think it's the Sunday before Mother's Day this year, and we're gonna have a whole bunch of fun stuff going on at the store. So please come with your godmother.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, oh my gosh. I would love to. I will reach out to her now. I agree with you. I love the concept of that because Mother's Day obviously should be celebrated and we should honor Mothers, but there is a lot that can come with that and heaviness for people and a grief for people or not being included in that. So I love the idea of a Godmother's Day. A lot of other countries celebrate International Women's Day more. I feel like that's starting to be a little bit more of a thing here, but still Mother's Day is like the raining holiday. So I like that for the people listening that you're like, huh, Mother's Day is hard. I lost my mom or I don't have children, and I want to be so like, come to Godmother's Day. Start up Godmother's Day.

SPEAKER_01

So much fun stuff happening. We're gonna have like a tribute bar where you can write a letter to a person that lit your way. We're gonna have portraits being taken, we're gonna have all sorts of fun food stuff, we're gonna have a tea. So we're just gonna make it a big celebration. And let's all of us together make Godmother's Day happen. Like I want it to be a national holiday.

SPEAKER_00

I'm here for it. I'm down. Let's keep it rolling, and I hope to make it. Coming back to this, because I I know you are so passionate about female friendships, and you've spoken about how your love of multi-generational friendships, too. Why is this so important to you? And I'm guessing, why do you think this should be a staple for every woman?

SPEAKER_01

Well, for one thing, it keeps you open, it keeps you curious, it keeps you growing. I mean, what I love about my intergenerational friendships is that you never wear one hat. Sometimes I'm the mother, and sometimes these younger women are the daughters, sometimes we're sisters, and sometimes they're leading me. And it's not just women, actually. I have intergenerational friendships with men as well. I love the energy, I love learning, I love keeping my heart opened, and I love, you know, the reflected glory of watching people become who they're meant to be. So it's such a joy to me. And I've started something at Godmother's called the Story Club, which is like a book club, only you tell a story. And we meet once a month and we met on Friday, and I realized it was 40 women in a room. It happened to be all women, but that there were seven decades present in that room. And it was incredible. And we were all sharing stories about first loves, and it was just such a beautiful thing. So that's why I think intergenerational friendships are so important because they keep you alive and they keep you evolving.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's so touching, and I completely agree with you. I mean, I have a lot of people in the 30s around my same age, but I have younger friends still in their 20s, I have definitely 40s, 50s, and I think I share the same sentiment that there's always something to learn, and you are in different like I learned from my older friends, I learned from my younger friends. I feel like I can give advice to both. Like there is that mix of what you said of sometimes you're the one that needs to learn, and sometimes you're the one that can advise and share wisdom. And I had great advice from a really good family friend years ago, and she told me she's in her 70s, I believe, but she was like, Betsy, look at older women and the ones you admire, how they're living their lives, how they are carrying themselves. Look at them and pay attention and see like how you want to age and what you want to do and who you want to become. And I just thought that was such a valuable lesson.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, you know, if you can see it, you can be it, you know, and so it really helps to watch what resonates for people. And a lot of my goddaughters now have children of their own, and they'll say, Oh, you know, I do this thing because you did it, you know, with your kids when your kids were little, and I always held on to that and thought this was something I would do with my children, and now I do. And I just get just thinking about that, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, it's true, it's so nice and especially in a world that will tell us aging is somehow the enemy, and it's so bad quote for women to age and like you lose value as you age, which is obviously so infuriating. But I think it's so important to celebrate that wisdom and to celebrate, like you said, having different generations represented. Like, what a privilege to have that.

SPEAKER_01

Completely. And you know, from the 80-year-olds in the room to the 20-year-olds in the room, we all have something to learn from each other, and I do think that staying open is really important because like I'm not listening to give advice, like I'm listening so that I can understand and feel what somebody is saying. And I mean, my daughter's 31, she and her husband have the most beautiful marriage. I've learned so much about partnership from the way that they interact. So, you know, I'm old school, but I'm always in school.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. And so when you and Victoria were first talking about your immediate goal of opening a bookstore, right away were you like, we're gonna have events, we're gonna have space for speakers, we're going to have it be this integral part of the community. Like right away, you knew.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean, it was part of the vision. I mean, our shared love was really of gathering people together. It was always a bookstore and gathering space. It was always where stories spark transformation. Like from the very beginning, that was in the seeds that we planted.

SPEAKER_00

And now you have coffee and you have food, so you've continued to make it a spot that people can come.

SPEAKER_01

It might be just about 18 months, I think April, right? So it's been an incredible 18 months. I mean, it's like we just sprung fully formed, you know, and the community has embraced us so deeply, and you know, the live events have been so wonderful, and now we have dark coffee, which is delicious. And yeah, I mean it's pure joy. It's really been service through joy.

SPEAKER_00

So is your husband like when you set out to do this too? Was he just like, do you want to relax? Like, are you sure you want to take this on? Like, was anyone in your life like, do you want to do this whole other endeavor?

SPEAKER_01

Honestly, first of all, Betsy, my husband and I have been together since I'm 18.

SPEAKER_00

Oh.

SPEAKER_01

Over 40 years. So he knows me and he was so supportive. He loves godmothers. And the truth is that I had relaxed for over three years. Like I literally did nothing. Nobody thought it was possible that I would do nothing for the buttons to four years, I sat and it was incredible. But I was done. My second pause was complete and I was ready to begin a new phase of my life.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so everyone was like, Yep, this tracks. We knew you'd get back to something.

SPEAKER_01

Well, they weren't surprised. You know, a bookstore, you know, okay, let's see.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I want to talk to you about that because obviously we live in this world that is continuously pushing virtual. Bringing a bookstore back where people are picking up physical books, where people are coming into shop actual physical books, fine, seeing the titles all there. Has that been hard? What has that industry been like so far?

SPEAKER_01

It's just joyful. It's pure joy for us. You know, first of all, we would never have considered anything that was virtual, because as I said to you, nothing like being there. You know, we built it for ourselves. We wanted a place to gather and talk about important things, and books are just at the center of that. So, no, there's been nothing hard about it. Really, truly, nothing hard. It's just been joyful. You know, it's business, so there's things, you know, toilets break. My business partner is helping cure a disease as part of her day job, and I came from a very stressful entertainment executive job in New York. So we just like to say the stakes are laughably low and we love it that way.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, well, I love hearing that. I mean, that's the best response you could have was starting a new-ish, still kind of business. So I'm cheering you guys on. I'm glad people, like you said, have embraced you so much. I feel like people are making an effort to go into bookstores and shop more and spend that physical time around books as well. Yeah. So I'm glad that that's making a comeback, so to speak, as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I have to ask you then, what are you reading right now? What are some of your favorite books? Like, give me the book, Rex.

SPEAKER_01

I'm reading Kate Bowell right now, Joyful. I'm interviewing her next week. So most of my books that I read right now are for my interviews. Like, I loved reading Belle Burden's Strangers because I interviewed her as well. I recently interviewed the woman whose Instagram is Spirit Daughter. So I read a lot for work, which is just these little interviews that I do at Godmothers.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and do you like the interviewer component of it?

SPEAKER_01

I love it. I don't do anything that I don't like.

SPEAKER_00

Honestly, mic drop. Amen.

SPEAKER_01

My mantra is service through joy. If it's not joy, I'm not doing it. And I serve the world through my joy. So I don't do things I don't want to do. And that's the great thing about being 59.

SPEAKER_00

Hearing you say that, that resonates with me because I'm now entering my later 30s where I'm like, well, if it's not like a full body yes, then why am I doing it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean it's a full body yes or a fuck no.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. I absolutely agree. Like, because I'm that way where I'm like in the past, or I had the tendency to be like, well, I can do that, so I should, or like maybe I can fit that in, or I can't do it. And now I'm like, no, I'm tired. I want to accomplish other things, I want to do things that are joyful and that will fill my cup instead of just like, okay, I guess I'm filling the day. Like, no more. I'm really trying to become so much clearer on that for my own life.

SPEAKER_01

I definitely was not there when I was your age. That's very wise. But I am there now, and you know, peace is the most important thing to me. So every day I ask myself, what do I need to do to protect my peace? And the answer to that question is how I dictate my day.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I believe it. So I did a little fun homework last night in preparation for this interview. I watched your guest appearance on With Love Megan, and you come over and you guys have some cocktails and you play mahjong. What was it like filming that? Or what was it like to be a guest on the show?

SPEAKER_01

I've been for years, so it was just like a version of that. It was really just natural. That's our little Maj gang, so it was super easy and super fun. And the food was delicious, so.

SPEAKER_00

Ah, that's so fun. It was fun watching you and being like, oh my god, I love that she's having so many local people and getting to see you guys all play. Speak of this, I've actually had you on the podcast just to bring this up. I don't know what's going on with the emails because I keep trying to get in the intro Majjon groups and I know it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01

But you know what? Okay, I'll help you. No, it's crazy. No, no, it's crazy. It's crazy. It's Maj Mania. We keep adding groups and they fill up so fast. I mean, the one thing that's annoying is that people sign up and pay and then they don't come, but we can't fill their spot. So we raise the price a little bit just so people don't do that because it's so annoying.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that is annoying. No, I was like, is this like when people post a job position that's already internally filled? I'm like, what's going on here, godmothers?

SPEAKER_01

I got you on this. I got you on this. I mean, I'm playing at 3:30 a day. It's the best. And the fun part about it is that you just sit around with girlfriends, you don't touch your phone. I mean, guys are playing too, actually. I know so many couples that are playing together. My husband has no interest. But you have all these tiles and you just have to make order out of randomness. It just feels so good for your brain, and you don't touch your phone for two hours. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00

And it's social, which I feel like back in the day, I mean, people probably do a bit still. Sorry, I'm not trying to come down, but like bridge. Like people played bridge where they would get together for those social things. And nowadays I feel like there aren't as many of those card game nights or you know, board games. So I think having something like you said, where like you're using your brain a bit, it's still social, it's still fun, there's a little competition, but it's still low stakes. Like, that's nice to have with your friends. Talking about your daily life, and I know you've spoken a lot about focusing on what brings you joy and bringing joy into what you're doing. So, what are the main things that fill your cup? Or, like, do you have any daily rituals?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I meditate every day, so that's very important to me. I spend time in nature every day, spend time with my animals, I exercise, I read. I'm pretty simple, to be honest with you. So, my friend Carissa Schumacher, whose book Freedom Transmission I absolutely adore, she says your heart has to have four things simplicity, stability, surrender, and stillness. So I sort of kind of go with that. Like I just stable, still, surrendered, and simple. You know, that's kind of how I like to keep my days.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's amazing. Those are good pillars, if you will, to stand by.

SPEAKER_01

And they sort of like when you do all those things, you have peace.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Oh, but a beautiful sharing there. I like that. And I'm gonna implement that if I can more. Okay, so now I know you talked about how you didn't grow up reading a lot and how now you are reading books specifically for a lot of times the interviews you're doing, but like when do you like to read? Are you uh before bed you like to read in the morning, or like what's kind of your go-to?

SPEAKER_01

At any time. Like morning, I would say I wake up very early and I read for a couple of hours, but that could be magazines, newspapers, like it depends. Nighttime, I'm not really a nighttime person. Like, I'm pretty much in bed from 9 p.m. to 5 a.m. every day. Whether I'm asleep or not, doesn't really matter. But my brain kind of isn't at its best at night.

SPEAKER_00

That's like my husband. What is your husband like? Is he more of a night owl?

SPEAKER_01

He's a total night owl. He tries to regulate a little bit so we could spend more time, you know, on both ends together, but I think left to up to his own devices, he would be up till one or two in the morning.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's funny. I know I always have a theory about this because I feel like a lot of marriages are like that, where one person is an early bird and one person is a more of a night owl. It's interesting how those people like find each other.

SPEAKER_01

Well, when my husband and I found each other, we were both deeply night owls. I mean, he worked nights, and it's so hard for me to imagine this, but the way I know what a night owl I was was that I used to be able to polish my toenails. This is before everybody got manicure pedicures professionally. But I would be able to do my nails at midnight and stay up until they dried, so like at least till two o'clock, I would do that regularly. But once I had kids, that changed, and I've never gone back. I mean, our our youngest child is married, we're grandparents. Look, I became an early bird at that time.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, that makes sense. I obviously used to stay out later when I was younger, and now someone will be like, this thing starts at nine. I'm like, 9 p.m. It starts at nine.

SPEAKER_01

I can't have dinner at eight. I mean, it's like no way. My friends know the way to my heart is a six o'clock dinner.

SPEAKER_00

Same. I'm with you. We're like anywhere from like 5 to 6 p.m. is my perfect ideal dinner win-no. I'm like, early bird dinner all the way, then you're not going to bed super full. I hate that.

SPEAKER_01

My mom lives in Boca Reton, Florida, half the year, and it's three hours ahead of us. So I call nine o'clock Boca Midnight. It's like I made it to Boca Midnight.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, it's like the East Coast New Year's Eve when you're like, okay, we'll watch the ball drop and we'll we'll be fine. Since now you've lived here a while and I feel like you are so involved in the community. What are your like Montecito go-to spots where you're Santa Barbara? Like, what are the restaurants you love?

SPEAKER_01

But let me start with Summerland. I love feeling bored, I love Tinkers, I love the well and porch. So I just love Summerland. And then in terms of restaurants, I love Lucky's and Treloon, I love Little Mountain, I love Ospie. I like La Cuita in Santa Barbara, I like Gala in Santa Barbara, I love the Linden Square in Carpenteria. I love a Peritiwa too, or Perativo in Santa Barbara.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What is your Tinker's order? This is incredible.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I eat a Tinker's all the time.

SPEAKER_00

No, you don't. Are you getting like the curly fries? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01

Victoria and I eat there all the time. I'm always laughing. I'm like, oh, we're so glamorous. Like, here we are at Tinker's. We sit in the front, we sit in the back, we love it.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just now I'm like pictures of you guys just like ordering corn dogs and curly fries.

SPEAKER_01

We're burgers, girls.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so you're getting a burger there. Oh my gosh, they're really dipping in a toe into being a true local because that's a staple.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if she's gonna love that I outed this on a local.

SPEAKER_00

No, it's too late. It's out there. No, cut, cut, cut. I'm like you, like I love some of the fancier spots and a more upscale. And then I'm like, I love the nugget.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no, no. My favorite thing is after an event at Godmother's just to roll into the nugget at like eight o'clock at night and just the table grows, whoever's at the event who wants to come. And oh my god, I love the nugget. I'm I can't believe I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, don't worry, I saved you because we go there all the time. It is such a great spot. And it's open after your events, not everywhere is, so it's perfect.

SPEAKER_01

It's open, it's lively, and the thing is, if you have an extra couple people, they'll pull up another table. They're so kind.

SPEAKER_00

I know, and it's a place you can get a loaded baked potato, which I'm a big fan of.

SPEAKER_01

That's my go-to at night with baked potato.

SPEAKER_00

I'll see you there next time after God. Well, I'll see you there. We'll cheers, loaded baked potatoes together. Please. Okay, well, the last question I have for you is since I have you on the Bets Life podcast, I always ask my guests how they live their best lives.

SPEAKER_01

I think the most important thing for me is to stay very close to how things feel. And this is something I didn't do earlier in my life. I was much more in my head. And they say that the 27 inches from your head to your heart is the longest distance you'll ever travel. But now that I've traveled into my heart, I stay there and I live my best life by making sure things feel right, feel good, feel loving, feel connected. And as long as I'm in there and feeling that, then I'm living my best life.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. Well, yeah, great answer. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for being here. It was lovely to have you.

SPEAKER_01

I really admire your wisdom and what you're doing, and thanks for being a part of the Godmother community.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Well, you know what? It's work in progress, like everything. You know, it's day by day. But okay, well, hopefully I'll see you at the nuggets soon.

SPEAKER_01

Hopefully, I get you into a Maj Beginner's class soon.

SPEAKER_00

I know. I've yes. There's a whole undercurrent of having you on this podcast as a guest. Diabolical over here. I know it. Exactly. All right. Thank you so much, Jennifer. Interested in more? Visit thebetslife.com or find me at theBetsLife on Instagram. Please follow, rate, and review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks for listening.