Episode 4: Why the Amount of Money We Have Doesn't Guarantee a Free Mind

In today’s episode, Melissa & Barb discuss how allowing external circumstances to affect their state of being is risky business. 

With compassion for themselves and others, our hosts share anecdotal moments of recognizing how our state of our mind can lend to moments that make for the best memories, or how our overthinking can get in the way.

Are there areas in your life where you recognize that a stirred up state of mind or errant thinking affect your experiences?

Please find us on Melissa's website or  Barb's website.

If you enjoy the show, please FOLLOW, RATE, and REVIEW us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It really helps us out. Thank you!

Transcript

Transcript begins after Show Intro

[00:00:00] Barb Patterson: Hi! Welcome everybody. This is Barb.

[00:00:02] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: and this is Melissa.

[00:00:04] Barb Patterson: We are so glad you're here today. And we are going to just jump right in, and the teaser for today. is cheese and money. Melissa. Take it away.

[00:00:16] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: If I was listening to this, I would think to myself, "What are these women talking about?"

[00:00:23] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:00:23] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: But you know, I was inspired last week by the french fries and I thought, "Hey, let's keep it going with food.  You know, cause they're all metaphors, right?" They're all metaphors. And so for me, I wanted to talk today about the Jarls.... I don't know if I'm saying that right, but they Jarlsberg cheese sandwich and the experience I had with it and what it represents for me.

So many, many years ago, my first job out of school, I was working for a consulting company.
It was very prestigious and it paid me really good money living in New York city. And I was really good at it. Really, really, really good. And I also worked about 70 hours a week and I had zero life and it was sucking the very soul out of my system. And I remember sitting with my mom at grand central station and we had just gotten our, they actually raised it up like out of the class of like 200, and that was rated number one.

And my mom couldn't have been more proud. She told me "I'm so proud of you and you know, why aren't you happy?" And I said, "Because my very soul is dying." And so I quit. Like I literally up and quit and everyone thought I was insane to leave this 'prestigious' and all the things that we're supposed to do in the world.

And so I started consulting for a filmmaker. I'm trying to think if I should say his name or not. I don't know. Well, anyway, he was a documentary filmmaker and brilliant man, and I just loved what I was doing. It was so, so fun. And you know, I was living in New York city in New York city, even back then in 1723 was really expensive.

And so I was on the upper west side of Manhattan, and each day I would have to get some lunch and I didn't want to bring my lunch. I wanted to get some lunch and there was a bodega on the corner and I had budgeted myself, because I needed to. And so I had a $1.50 for lunch—that was my lunch allowance back in 1970, whatever year it was.

And I walked into this bodega and, um, I said to the gentleman at the deli counter, "What can I get for a $1.50?" I think about that now it's so incredible.

And he said, "Well, you could get a cheese sandwich."

And I said, "Okay. All right, well, I like your Jarlsberg cheese. Do you have that?

"Yes."

I said, "How many slices can we get?"

And he said, "Two slices."

I said, "Oh, can I have lettuce with that?"

And he said, "Yeah, I can give you lettuce."

"How about tomato?" Cause I'm thinking I need to put some stuff on this sandwich."Is mayonnaise included?"

"Yes."

"And salt? Okay, perfect."

And it was on whole wheat bread and the bread was very, very soft. So I would take the sandwich. It was wrapped in white paper and I would go sit on a bench on Central Wark West. And I would look at Central Park and this sandwich was so delicious. The salt, the mayonaise, the cheese, the soft bread. And I would sit there like a queen on a throne enjoying this Jarlsberg cheese sandwich. Like it was incredible.

And I would look forward to it every day. And then one day decided I'm going to splurge and I bought myself a Diet Coke. Well, the bubbles and the carbonation of this diet Coke with the Jarlsberg sandwich was incredible. It was incredible. And I just loved this sandwich and the once a week, the diet Coke. And it got me thinking— I no longer have a $1.50 for lunch today. I have way more than that. And yet when I think back to why I want to talk about this Jarlsberg sandwich was because I enjoyed this sandwich so much. And it wasn't just because the cheese was so delicious, which it was, and the bread was fresh, which it was, and they were lovely in the store. It was because I had a sense of freedom when I was ordering the sandwich and I was doing what I loved. And I was in such a simple, quiet state of mind, which brings me to today, sometimes not so much, specifically around money.

I  have really believed. And I go in and out of this—really believe that I need to have a certain amount of money to feel peaceful, to feel not afraid.

Many years ago, I was living in Santa Monica and I went to a place called Yaz. It was a spinning studio and I was sitting outside after a spin class with very tight hips talking to my friend. And I said, "You know, when I have a million dollars in the bank, that's when I'm just not going to worry about money anymore. And I'm just going to work toward that. And when I get there, it's going to be good.

And, you know, I thought about, do I share this or] not? But it's 'real women'. Right. And we're being real. I have that today. And at any given time, I can be terrified about money.

And here's the other thing. I've sat in Michelin star restaurants and had the most exquisite meals in the world and didn't enjoy them as much as I did that Jarlsberg cheese sandwich. You know? That really touches me as I share that because I really see the nature, how this thing called life works. It's just so clear to me in this moment, Barb of how I get infused about it. And then we remember. So that's why, and as I'm talking to you, I'm really taste ... I'm sensing the Jarlsberg cheese in my mouth.

[00:05:12] Barb Patterson: Me, too.

[00:05:13] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Deliciousness of it— the innocent and the simplicity.

[00:05:17] Barb Patterson: Yeah, the appreciation of it also, I think,

[00:05:20] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yes..

[00:05:21] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:05:21] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: That's where I wanted to start us off today.

[00:05:23] Barb Patterson: I love that for so many reasons, just picturing you, you know, and, and the park having that and just savoring it and also your bigger point that freedom of mind and feeling hopeful or feeling abundant versus lack, feeling alive versus flat, feeling like we're on the cusp of amazing things, to feeling like we're in a same old, same old rut, you know, that all those places are really being shaped and created via our mind. But we think it is the outside world or the bank account hitting a certain number or the relationship looking a certain way.

So many things that we put between us and pleasure of a moment, like the pleasure and savoring of that sandwich. Things we put between us and knowing we're okay. You know, whether it's the bank account number or some other arbitrary thing we've created in our minds. And so, you know, I think money's an interesting one because I have at times gone through really tough times with money and years and years ago, turning the car in that I was leasing because I couldn't afford it anymore. You know, I, I made this leap to start my own business back in my thirties and somehow didn't think I needed to adjust my lifestyle, you know? And so that sort of created some implications, but what's fascinating about that it the amount of  shame and guilt that it brought—that money, you know, and, and that time period came fraught with. And it's just another way of saying, right? Whether it's fear and insecurity or worry, or it's guilt or shame, we have that connected inside our minds to something—to money, to a certain kind of money, to status, to relationship, to, you know, just certain things. And I think any time we have peace of mind, we have happiness, we have self-worth hinged on something looking a certain way, you know, that is fraught with destabilization and more turmoil.

[00:07:44] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah. And money's no different than anything else.

[00:07:48] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:07:49] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Someplace I had it that money was different.

[00:07:52] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:07:52] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Because the truth is we need money.

[00:07:54] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:07:54] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: So it gets a little tricky. Right? I need money. We need money, my husband and I to pay our mortgage, to eat. So it seems like it's different. But what I know is that getting stressed out about money is not a good way to make money.

[00:08:09] Barb Patterson: Yeah.. Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:13] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: And here's the other thing about money—cause I've really been fascinated by this, this week. I spend a lot of time thinking about money in the future in a place that doesn't exist yet. In a place where there's actually no choice or freedom because it's pretend in my head.

[00:08:27] Barb Patterson: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I remember when I quit my job and my executive position moved back to the states and I was in the first few months of this new business, which is now 10 years, plus. I remember that you know, my friend and I were driving across country. I was gonna, I went to live in Santa Monica for a few months.

[00:08:49] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: I didn't know that.

[00:08:52] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:08:53] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Wow.

[00:08:53] Barb Patterson: 2012.

[00:08:56] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Wait a second. I was there.

[00:08:58] Barb Patterson: You were?

[00:08:58] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yes. Did you go to a spin  studio called Yaz?

[00:09:01] Barb Patterson: When you said that name? I'm like, that sounds familiar, but no, I did not.

And so my, I asked a friend of mine I'm like, "Do you want to drive cross country with me?"

And she was like, "Yeah." And so we, I had my, you know, little Mini Countryman, which I absolutely loved, and we're driving across country. And as we're driving across country, I had been back in the states...fairly, you know, maybe two months tops and we're driving and we're listening to music and catching up. And then, you know, we're, I'm just full of the hope of this new adventure I'm on, of this new phase in life. And, you know, as we're driving and stopping at these beautiful locations, it's all about the hope and the potential and, and being in the unknown, but excited about it.

She helped me get settled into my apartment. And I dropped her off at the airport and I went back to this, you know, apartment I was staying in and shut the door and maybe it didn't happen quite this way.

But to me, it was like, I shut the door and the world came crashing down and I was like, "Oh my God, I've got work to do. This is not a business. I've got to get clients. This is not going to last me. I am not going to do okay. I've got... I am slacking."

I mean, I went to town and by the way, that was like for a number of days.

So for a number of days, I was in this anxiety about having to get my business together. Now what's interesting is my bank account didn't change in those two moments. You know, it didn't  change. Nothing shifted out there. Uh, you know, I just went from the hopeful to the terror. Right. And then after a few days, because I had been starting to learn about the role of thought and effect on us, I had a realization and I was like, "Oh my God, I just, I just took myself to hell via thought."

I went down rabbit hole after rabbit hole of fear and anxious thinking. And I didn't like, see it. I leaned into. I thought it was telling me something valuable and as a result, my feelings intensified. And so I was just really struck about how on the way there I was in this hopefulness and in this other, you know, moment for days I was in this fear and I could see thought.

I could see, wow. We live in the feeling of thought. I could see thought at play because the truth was, nothing did change outside of me. Right? Now, I still had, but I had that business and you know, the number of clients three days earlier, you know, like in that respect. And so when I saw that, the thought that came after seeing like, "Wow, you—God love you."

You just like really took your stuff, you know? And then I said, "Oh, I just need to have faith. I just need to have faith that it's all gonna work out. And I was talking to Michael Neil at the time and I shared with him this kind of, "I just need to have faith," you know? And he said something to me that was so powerful in has continued to serve me, but he said, "Well, I don't know that it's, you need to have faith that it's going to work out, but do you have faith that you're okay no matter what happens?" And I was like, "Oh. Oh, yeah, that's something different ."

Because I realized "Oh, I'm bargaining with life and this whatever universe." Like, I'm like, "I quit, I followed my wisdom. Where's my money?" I followed my wisdom where's my, where's my success? "Where are the clients?" You know, like I was sort of...

And when he took me to that deeper, more true place within, I knew immediately. "Oh yeah, that's the work. Do we know we're okay no matter what? As attached as we are the "Yeah, but... was like almost immediately. Right? But those "Yeah, buts" are the place to maybe question because yes, we want to create businesses that fund our lives. Right? We want to create lives that we enjoy and include pleasures like cheese and travel. Of course.

[00:13:00] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Cheese. Lots of cheese,

[00:13:01] Barb Patterson: But what you said earlier in that freeer attached mind or so much more creative, we find our way easier. The same is true for me. And when we know we're okay, no matter what, we're more open, we hear different and we see different possibilities. We're more risk-taking.

[00:13:20] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Seriously, that hits hard. "Okay no matter what." There's "Yeah, but."There's "No." There's "Wait a second."  There's "Hold on."  Like, oh, my thinking that comes in when you say "We're okay no matter what." There's all of that. And also I know it's true. I know it's true. And what you're saying also reminds me that because we're okay no matter what we get to play, we get to, I'm going to say it—fail. Now that was never something I ever wanted to do. Because even when I fail ( I'm using air quotes), it doesn't mean I'm a failure. It's not what it means. I always equated that. It was like, "Oh, I can't fail because of all the things I think that means about  me."

[Yeah, it's always about me. Failing just means you tried something that didn't work. And I can try it again.

But in the past, Barb. I just wouldn't try because I didn't want to fail. And the truth is, even though I have a beautiful life, I didn't feel like I was fully living into it. I wasn't really living because when we try new things, we, we step into that unknown.

Right? I mean, it's unknown. I wanted some guarantees up front of what I was going to get. Like you talked about, all right. If I follow my intuition, am I going to get the money?

";Show me the money. Show me the money!", As Cuba Gooding Jr. said in, in that, uh, that movie.

So, yeah. Wow. Okay no matter what. Yeah. I love that. And um, now here's a controversial question for you.

You might just hang up on me.

[00:14:53] Barb Patterson: Okay.

[00:14:54] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: You might just shut me down right here.

[00:14:57] Barb Patterson: I don't know if I have the tech ability to do that, so I think you're okay.

[00:15:02] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: How do you remind yourself of that? How do you remember that? Is there like a way, like anyone that's listening, they're like, "Okay, that sounds great ladies, but how do I do that? How do I believe that?"

[00:15:14] Barb Patterson: Yeah, it sounds pollyanna.

Well, I think that that question is a personal one. In other words, I really believe that we have to go on our own personal journey of understanding that deeper place within which is where we know. we're okay no matter what.

See, I heard Michael saying that to me at first hit me. I didn't immediately walk around going, "Hey, you guys I'm okay no matter what!" But it hit me and it opened something in me and then we're on a learning curve. Right? Then I began to see all the ways that I don't think that's true. Like my value, my worth  is tied to what I contribute. My worth is tied to how I am with money.

You know, I started to see these places where again I had, I had collapsed worth and value and okayness with doing, with results, with behavior. So that unraveling of thought, see, I didn't to see, it's like, "Oh, these are just constructs and ideas I've collapsed inside." And some of us, you know, culturally—like their cultural norms maybe, but they're still made of thought.

So the idea that I, you know, that "What if I am okay no matter what"—what would knowing that in a 'felt' way, going on the journey, what would that give me? But it was the moment he said it that I knew there was truth in it. And then it was up to me to go on and, and I think it's so important, your question—for all of us, because we can see something conceptually, but  if we don't have an embodied knowing of it, it's not as helpful.

It's something to, it's an aspiration, which so it's not that it's not helpful. But yeah, I had to go through periods like, you know, I didn't start making money two days after he said that. You know? I was still... my first year and a half in business was a very slow burn. Now in hindsight, I can make sense of that slow burn in multiple ways.

And to what you said, you know, as the bank savings went down, my anxiety would go up at different times, but when I would catch that happening, because I'd seen something even as loosely formed as it was—the indication I had woken up to a different level of consciousness (just to use that language). Right? It's a new level of some possibility was already in there in that moment.

And so what would happen was, in those moments of anxiety when I would start to worry I wasn't doing enough and it wasn't happening.  I would remember grace would come through that kind of, "Hey, remember this idea, like you're okay?" And I'd be like, "Yeah. Okay. I don't want to build a business from fear and insecurity."

Can I see I'm okay no matter what and see what standing on *that* ground creates in my business rather than my fear of trying to make it and, you know, demonstrate my value.

Does that help?

[00:18:24] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Oh, it's so good. So good. I'm glad that you didn't hang up on me.

It was really good. And you just reminded, I was talking to a group of women yesterday. Very, very high achieving women. Some of the most successful women I know, actually. And I was, I was sharing about this and they said, "But wait a second, we're Type A personalities. Like, what do you mean we, this is how we got here. We drive, we drive, we hustle. We go, and we're not just going to sit on the couch, you know, and watch like The Bachelor"... And (this season's not very good), but, And I thought, "Okay, so that's a good question. How do I answer that?"... For myself? Right. Without having to have like the right answer, but for myself.

[00:18:59] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:19:00] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: And it goes back to what you said, it's a feeling, right? So if I'm thinking, "Oh my gosh, my business is not doing well. My business... I'm stressed. I'm anxious. I better, I better go do this." I might want to sit with that for a second.

That might not be the best course of action for my business. If I'm talking with someone and I have a feeling about asking them a question that maybe I don't really understand why that question's coming into my mind, but it's a feeling of curiosity and interesting. And I'll probably ask that question. So it where for me in my experience— where is the action coming from? Which thought is preceding that action, that choice? And I don't do it all the time, but I can tell in my body how it feels, where that's coming from. So I said to these very successful women, "Do you have experiences where you've had that sort of, I call it an intuition, a curiosity, and you've followed that? Does that feel different than the, "Oh, I got to get this done!" And they said, "Oh yeah, of course. It's of course it does." And I said, "So, there you go." And they all thought, "Oh, so I don't have to give up my business, my company." I said, "No, of course not. Why would you want to do that? There's just a different way. We can be in the world when we understand how we work."

[00:20:18] Barb Patterson: Yeah. That's beautiful. Really well illustrates it because that's. it We aren't saying anything about give up on your dreams or don't play big. You know, what we're really saying is there's a more powerful and empowering state of being to come from. That is beyond it doesn't mean at times we don't work hard or experience grit, you know, but to see it's not the source.

And there's a way and a state of being that actually allows us to step more into the unknown. Like you said, allows us to be more innovative and more courageous and more bold—to get over ourselves when we stumble, because we do. You know, to get over our awkwardness, to get over those failures, like you said, to bounce back—all of that. It's like this internal resourcefulness that we have, and I love what you're pointing to. Am I going to let that run the show or am I going to let my insecure fear-based urgency run it?

[00:21:22] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah. For a long time, like 'urgent' was driving the bus. And we were going lots of places really quickly, but we never quite got there.

[00:21:33] Barb Patterson: We definitely didn't savor it like you savored that sandwich, right?

[00:21:37] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Gosh, I think we should do a food show Barb.

[00:21:42] Barb Patterson: Well, maybe, you know, I have a lot to say about popcorn. Maybe that'll be our next show.

[00:21:54] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Oh. And you know what? The metaphors are endless there. Endless.

[00:21:59] Barb Patterson:  Totally. Well, thank you everybody for joining in today and listening. As always, I hope our ramblings take you someplace insightful and beautiful within yourselves.

[00:22:13] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah. Thank you so much for joining. Sending you a lot of love and awesome, always fun to hang out with you, Barb Patterson.

[00:22:20] Barb Patterson: You too. Melissa P. Hart

[00:22:23] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Take care.

[00:22:24] Barb Patterson: Bye bye.

[00:22:24] OUTRO—Thank you so much for listening to REAL WOMEN REAL LIVES with your host Barb Patterson and Melissa Palazzo Hart. We hope you enjoyed this week's episode.

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Want to see the show notes or read a transcript of this show? You can find it on *MelissaPalazzoHart.com* or *BarbaraPatterson.com*. 

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A special shout out and thanks to our producer to Jenée Arthur of Peripheral View Media. 

Until next time remember—take the mask off. No filters. Just possibilities.