[00:00:00] INTRO

[00:00:50] Barb Patterson: Hi, everybody. Welcome to the REAL WOMEN REAL LIVES Podcast. We're so glad to have you here. This is Barb,

[00:00:57] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: and this is Melissa.

[00:00:59] Barb Patterson: Yeah. So today we're gonna talk about what to do when we get triggered, you know, those moments when something happens unexpectedly, or we get a message.

Spoiler alert, spoiler alert.

So I'm gonna turn it over to you, Melissa, to just kick this off.

[00:01:18] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Oh, thanks Barb. It sounds so ominous. And I , I just, I just have to say that I am standing in the most awkward position, trying to make sure that my microphone is working. So I'm so glad you all can't see me because it's, it's quite the scene.

Oh, the message. So, you know, we do our best to share real what's happening in our lives, because that's why we are doing this podcast to begin with so that we can share it so everyone else feels the freedom in knowing they can do the same. So that's how we get through it together as humans on this on this planet.

So this morning I was having a delicious coffee of Nespresso, if any Nespresso sponsors are out there and interested to sponsor our podcast, , I'm a huge fan of Nespresso, uh, Intensio for anyone that likes the Nespresso.

[00:02:10] Barb Patterson: Ooh, that's my favorite too.

[00:02:12] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Of course it is with the foam on top. I mean, it's, I wake up and I'm just so excited about it.

So there I was doing my morning writing and, and checking on email and things of that nature, drinking my espresso and my husband comes in.

I don't know if anybody has this experience with other people in their lives, whether they live with you or they work with you, or they just kinda just come on in and say, "da, da, da, da, da, da, da,", irrelevant of what you're doing in that moment.

So I looked at him and I saw that he had a little bit of trouble on his face. And so instead of saying, "Uh, excuse. I'm doing something." I paused and I looked at him and I said, "What's up?"And he's like, "I just got this very mysterious email from my client." And I said, "Well, what was it?" And, and he shared it with me and to  respect his privacy, because he's not on this podcast, I'll keep it there.

And he shared it with me and he said, "What do you think that means?";

"I'm sure it's great," is what I actually said, but the truth is I have no idea what it means. And so I did my best to just hear him and be with him. And then I went back to my Nespresso and honestly, I didn't think about it again until a little bit later in the day.

And what made me think about it was the outrageous disbelief that I did not freak the F out.  I mean freak the F out because this is a client, this is my husband's business. We are married. We have a child and you know, all the things that we do in our grown up lives and, and the truth is we are not reliant on this one client.

However, what I really wanted to talk about today is there have been so many moments in my life where I've gotten that email—an accounted an attorney, a friend, a text from a friend where it's not clear, but there's this like underlying thought or feeling that "Oh, no."

And where I've gone to in the past. And by the way, I still go there. I just didn't go there today. Thank goodness gracious. Right? So I'm grateful for that, but the stories that I've made up in my head about what this could or could not be conversations that I've had with the people that have sent that email or text in my head when they're not there, about the email or text that they've sent. The amount of time, strife and struggle and worry and anxiety about what something may or may not mean, has taken minutes, hours, if not years off my life, frankly, and all very, very innocent because I was in my mind preparing for the worst, you know, what might it be so that I could be prepared.

Sometimes when I went into that conversation, I had an idea of what the conversation was going to be. So I didn't come into the conversation neutral. I came in guarded ,defensive with a little bit of my dukes up, I guess, you know? And so I couldn't sometimes actually hear what they were saying.

You know, I remember being in business and we talk about, you know, sometimes the message sent isn't the message received.

You know, and like communication basics 101, just to make sure that we're really hearing what the other person is saying. And so when I/we are in the unknown, which again, I have to remind myself is only every second of my life. Some moments seem more unknown than others, but the truth is every second is unknown.

How am I choosing to be in the unknown? And what I didn't realize before that I realized today is that I actually do have a choice. I can go down the thoughts of, "Oh no, this is gonna be bad." And then everything that comes after that—the thought storm. Or I can acknowledge that it's an unknown and what's the next indicated action I'm gonnatake today?

And so that's how I'm doing it today. And it's only because I've done it the other way for so long, frankly, and it just hasn't been helpful that it's really wonderful that I can see today that I have a choice. That we all have a choice. In that moment.

There was an expression that I heard years ago. It's like, "Am I gonna pick up the rope or am I gonna drop the rope?"

And today I'm just dropping the rope. Not to be confused. The one around the elephant's neck. That's not the rope we're talking about. That was, that was another rope. Okay.

This rope is the one that's pulling me off the cliff. This is the cliff rope. So I'm dropping the rope.

And here's the other thing that I know to be true. And this is probably the key under all of it is where does my/our wellbeing come from? It comes from inside. It comes from a knowing, a deep knowing that everything is okay. And that in any moment in any situation, I/we will know what we need to do

[00:07:01] Barb Patterson: Feel so calm. Reassured and calm. I'm like,"Yeah, yeah. That."

I remember getting a call one time from one of my mentors at the time. And the message was "B can you give me a call? Can you come over when you have a minute?"

Well, my imagination went to town in that moment. I was notpeaceful. I...like my imagination took me down rabbit holes and journeys that were just nothing but bad news.

Finally, having the moment to call back. This was the question.

"Now, when you made that chicken last week, how did you cook it?";

[00:07:52] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Oh my goodness.

[00:07:53] Barb Patterson: You know, I just, you know, I think it just, it's such a example for me because—I did my mind for whatever reason in that moment went down much darker paths than how I cooked chicken, yet there have been other times when you get the call, ";I need you to call me" and the news is not great.

But I love what you are sort of talking about. It's that in between time, that place, when we are in the unfamiliar, the unknown yet our minds get activated. Right? Our, our imagination gets activated, you know, an insecure thought and imagination are having a party in our minds. Right.

[00:08:40] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:41] Barb Patterson: You know...

[00:08:41] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:42] Barb Patterson: and so in those moments, it is, yeah. I love it's like, where do we find just our psychological safety in those moments?

[00:08:52] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah.

[00:08:52] Barb Patterson: Because no amount of convincing myself. Like really hurts, like trying to replace fearful thinking with positive thinking and you know, that feeling inside like, okay. Sometimes that kind of maybe, or helps a little bit, but ultimately what you're talking about is it's like, "Oh yeah. Do I know, first of all, that I'm. In my imagination?"

[00:09:13] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yes.

[00:09:14] Barb Patterson: That I am playing, you know, these scenarios in my mind. And as a result, of course, my nervous system is triggered and everything like, yes, that's how it works.

And then do I know where to go for that stability? Do I know where to go for that safety in this unknown? That stillness comes from within. That knowing we're okay no matter what that news is gonna be when we finally are talking to the person or opening the email or whatever that might be.

You know, I have a good friend whose mom was, they found cancer— breast cancer—and we were talking about it because of course the whole family is, you know, rallying.

But it's interesting to watch and experience how in any moment it can go from, "We got this." to, "Oh my God, what's gonna happen?"You know, and just to see that and look at that with compassion and it's understandable, and yet not to take those states, that worry, that upset, the fearful thinking, to heart. It's just pointing us to what's going on inside of us. It's not really pointing to a truth or the future, or what's ultimately down the road. We're just, in that moment, in imagination. So knowing that allows us to have a right relationship with it. And then to know where to go, to find like the safety, regardless of what is on the other end of that message or diagnosis.

[00:10:44] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah. So just in hearing you Barb, it made me think about, you know, what to do in a situation where there's an email, a call. I love the chicken story, by the way, that is just fantastic.

The effectiveness of it, right? Because I'm a practical lady. And I like to, even though we're talking about where our wellbeing comes from, which is super deep, I also want to share why I think it's effective to know this information.

When I am triggered (I love that word.) I went to a graduate school and they use that word all the time. "There's an opportunity" is what they would say. There's an opportunity when triggered. So when I'm triggered, it's like I get discombobulated a little bit. And so to come back to center before I have any conversation, before I take any action, is effective, right?

If, when my husband told me that I started getting super nervous and saying things or doing things, that would not have been helpful for anyone—truly. And then of course, I wouldn't have felt good about any of that 20 minutes later. So like the effective piece, the practical piece for me is how can I be as effective in the world as possible?

And so for me, it's always asking myself, maybe not always, that sounds very dramatic, but when I remember, where am I coming from in this conversation?

Something that you say, and I've seen your quotes on it "Our being fuels are doing" how am I being when I'm in the unknown? Which we said is pretty much every second of our lives, but when we're really in the unknown, right.

When I get a diagnosis or I remember when we were moving into our house, there was a situation with the closing. In California, the closings are so easy. It's 30 days. Everything closes. Here, it's 60 days and it's very, very complex. And my attorney called me up and she said, "We might not make the close date."

And I asked her, "Well, then what happens?" And she started going on and on. And I realized that the only question I really needed to ask her was"What can I do, right now?"That's it. It doesn't matter what's gonna happen, frankly. What can I do in this moment to do my best, to help us meet the close?

And that's what I did. And it turned out fine. Whereas in the past I might go into the imagination of all the things that could go wrong. Thinking that if I know all those things, then I'll be able to solve them, as opposed to really where the power is is "What can I do right?"

Last week I was in Chicago with Mara Olson.

] I had never watched a talk that she gave, but I think it's really relevant right now. The talk is about "What is our superpower?" Or we all have a superpower. And she gave it to a group of high school students. And because after I hung out with her, I became fascinated with her, I listened to the talk on the superpower and it was so poignant for me, because there's that place where we get to make a choice.

And I recommended to all of you here, The Superpower Talk, because that's what I'm talking about right here. I'm talking about the choice that we have, and we all have the superpower to do that, to choose in the moment, to know where our safety frankly comes from. It's not from the outside. It's not from how we made the chicken dinner. Although I do probably want that recipe. It sounds like.

That's the reminder for today.

[00:13:51] Barb Patterson: Yeah. I think that in my imagination, I'm building strategies for fantasy. You know, I'm building a strategy against my thinking in that moment and something I'm, that's not even happening. And somehow our minds, like that looks like a good idea in those moments.

Right? But what we're really saying is—come back to the here and now. Listen from that deeper intelligence and what is there to do now. And often you'll hear things like "Nothing."You know, "Go back to that great coffee." "Go for a walk."  Or maybe there will be something else to do other than those things. But it's only in real time that we can ultimately be responsive.

Otherwise, all we're we are doing is playing with our mind. We're just, again, in imagination, playing and strategizing and responding to imagination versus real time.

[00:14:45] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: And it's real common sense. Isn't it? What we're talking about. It's just,

[00:14:48] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:14:48] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: When I get stirred up, I forget the common sense of it. It's very practical what we're pointing to here.

[00:14:54] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:14:55] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: And so not only does it feel better. But it's also super practical in coming up with strategies for next steps, whether it's in our personal lives or our work lives or any of our lives.

[00:15:07] Barb Patterson: Yeah. And I think that there are potential things that, you know, might happen. Like I have a client the couple weeks ago was saying, "You know, I might lose my main client" and we did, as you're saying, we're like, "Okay, well, what is there to do about that now?"

Really nothing. Nothing. And so she just kept showing up to her job and engaging. And what I'll say is, she got the news couple days ago. She got the news. That job is going away.

Now, what's interesting is there's nothing that holding that thought for two weeks would've given her. Right? There's nothing that trying to strategize and figure out like, you know, in the moment when she finally said, "Okay, now, now that it's here, there's ideas coming through of what to do."

There's real things that I can respond to versus allowing the imagination to go off for a couple weeks. And so she was saying just what you're saying, Melissa, like, oh yeah, it's nice to know that in those two weeks I had my moments of worry about it in fear, but in general, that fear wasn't living inside of me that whole time.

And she was just saying how grateful she was for that.

[00:16:24] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah. I mean, because so much of life is unknown. Right? And so how much value am  I/we getting from living in worry.

[00:16:33] Barb Patterson: Yeah.

[00:16:33] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: And sometimes I still do, but just recognizing that there's not a lot of value there.

[00:16:39] Barb Patterson: That's right. And that all worry is, is imagination.

That's it? Like, do we really understand that we're creating a picture in our minds that is impacting our feeling and our nervous system?

[00:16:55] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Mm.

[00:16:55] Barb Patterson: That's what's happening.

[00:16:57] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah.

[00:16:57] Barb Patterson: The thing we're imagining isn't really happening.

[00:17:01] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah. Those conversations I'm having with those people in my head are absolutely not happen.

[00:17:07] Barb Patterson: Yeah, right. Yeah.

[00:17:11] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah. And I'm sure, I'm sure you've all had those conversations with other people that aren't there in your car, right. Or maybe on your walk or even in a bathroom stall. We've all done it.

[00:17:22] Barb Patterson: Yeah. Yeah. And to your point, a colleague was saying that they didn't hear back from a bid that they put in for about 10 days.

And prior to that, there had been all this connection and conversation and good energy. And then the bid, the proposal went in and it went silent. And we were just laughing about where her mind would take her. "Did I offend them? Did I get it wrong?" "I told them one day, but then I left a message saying I would like to take a little bit more time. Did that make them mad?"

You know, like all of that stuff and then to come and find out when they do reach out eventually they're like, "Yeah, life got busy." You know, and again, it just to see, do we know when we're in imagination? Do we know when we're triggered? Do we take the trigger as like good information, right?

Or do we see it for what it is? And then as a result, we're able to come back to the here and now. We're able to find our safety in this unknown.

[00:18:24] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Barb are you saying that worry is never useful?

[00:18:27] Barb Patterson: I am.

[00:18:28] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Oh, wow.

[00:18:29] Barb Patterson: I know. So bold.

[00:18:31] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: That is bold!

[00:18:32] Barb Patterson: Listen, worry, I think is a habit. I think worry sometimes is a conditioned way we've learned to deal with life.

[00:18:40] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Mm-hmm .

[00:18:41] Barb Patterson: I think that it's understandable and human. In a way, letting our worry has become a coping mechanism for a lot of us.

[00:18:50] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yes.

[00:18:51] Barb Patterson: We feel unsettled in the unknown. So our minds go well, let's figure it out. Figuring it out or worrying is a way we're trying to regulate ourselves. Actually regulate our nervous system.

We don't need our mind to regulate. We don't need our mind to find wellbeing. That resides somewhere else. And yes, in its very simplest way. Worry is imagination.

[00:19:15] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Yeah, that's so clear.

So folks that are listening right now, if you are in your imagination, like I do on a regular basis, I mean, for me, I just have to recognize I'm in my imagination.

And then I'm reminded where I actually am. And there's no one there that I'm talking with and that in the moment of choice, when action needs to be taken, we'll be guided. I'll be guided. You'll be guided. That's what we're here to talk about today.

[00:19:44] Barb Patterson: Just wanna add one more punch to that, that our safety isn't in the known. That we can find that safety, our equilibrium. We can regulate our nervous system, regardless of what's going on around us.

[00:19:57] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: I've had direct experiences with that. So that is truth with the capital T.

Well, listen, we are so grateful that you hung out with us a little bit. We love that you're with us and engaging with us. And if this is resonating with you or a friend of yours, please share it.

We'd love to be able to support as many people as possible. And if you're enjoying it, please go on over to Spotify and give us a rating. Give us a review. You can email us. Barb will give us the email because I don't know it. I believe it's realwomenrealivespodcast@gmail.com.

Well, look at that in the moment. We would love to know what you wanna hear about. What you would like some perspective on from Barb and Melissa.

So go on over, send us one.

[00:20:41] Barb Patterson: Yeah. Thank you everybody.