When You Know You Know

Even in moments when our head is telling us one thing—and our expectations another—something deeper inside us always knows what is true for this moment (or any moment, for that matter). 
 
Today, Melissa and Barb share how they differentiate between thinking and 'knowing.' 

They also reveal how our ‘knowing’ can come in a flash and unexpectedly, like the one they experienced only minutes before recording this episode.  

Transcript

[00:00:00] SHOW INTRO

[00:00:46] Barb Patterson: Welcome. This is Barb. 

[00:00:49] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: And this is Melissa. 

[00:00:50] Barb Patterson: So today we're going to talk about how to trust your knowing or when to, and Melissa has a more clever way of saying that.

You know, for all of us, there are times when we can get caught in our minds and confused and not sure. Or we doubt. We second guess.

So today, we wanted to just talk about how we find that knowing within and how we know when to trust it. Over to you, Melissa? 

[00:01:19] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Mm, thank you, Barb. Yeah, our knowing it's like, what even is that?

You know, years ago, if someone said, what do you know? I don't know exactly what I would say, but it's different today.] 

There's like different parts of me. My head intellectually understands data, analysis, and things like that. And then there's, you know, my heart that has feelings and emotions. And then there's my gut. Or my, what I call my intuition, and that's where my knowledge comes from. And, and I feel it, I feel it in my body when I know something, even though my head very much disagrees with it.

 in the past, I would listen to my head in situations because it was logical. It made sense to me. Even when my gut was saying "Nooooo!" 

And so, over the past couple of weeks, as I've been working with incredible clients, there's a period where I meet the clients and we kind of check out what the client needs and how I'm able to be of service.

 And there was this client that was very sexy, very sexy. It was very prestigious. There was much money on the table.

And, you know, as I was talking with them, my head was like, "Yeah, this sounds great. This is amazing." But my gut or my 'knowing' just kept feeling like, Hmm, I don't know about this. It doesn't feel aligned, but logically it checked so many boxes. And I even talked to my husband about it. So many boxes were checked except the one package, which I didn't want to do. 

A  couple of weeks ago, I got their call. They told me that they were going with someone else. And even though I knew I didn't want to do it and it didn't feel right, it just didn't feel right. I felt rejected. I felt like, "Well, how dare they leave me? I didn't even want that."

 But rejected, I felt. And you know, I've been working on this program, DOUBT YOUR DOUBTS—a program I will work on with women. And I thought, well, I will be client number one in DOUBTING MY DOUBTS because I didn't want this. And even though it looked good, it wasn't the right fit for me. So I could have quickly gone into quicksand about how this was the worst thing that ever happened, but I promptly went into action.

"Okay, well, what am I doing today? Who is my client today? How can I show up? How can I be present?"; And then I got a text message from a friend asking for some help with coaching, and in the conversation, I had this sort of knowing. It did not make sense to my head because that's not what this person asked me for.

But I had this knowing, and I said to her, I said, "Hey, I'm having a live stream coming on here. It might be a crazy idea."; I offered her what was coming through in the live stream, and I wasn't attached to what she said. These days, I'm just putting out what comes through the Livestream. Because if I don't, I'll never know.

I put it in the Livestream, and she was excited. She was thrilled. And quickly after that, we figured out that we'll be working together in this livestream capacity and it could not be more aligned. It couldn't be anything more that lights me up. And it's exactly where I can be of most service in the world at the intersection of business, performance, what I call 'organizational health.'

And I am so jazzed about who they are and what I can bring and had I gotten the other thing that I was rejected from, I probably would never have trusted that live stream because I'd be thinking about this other thing, doing this other thing that didn't feel right, that was gonna be taking up all my time.

I want us all to be thinking about today that I offer you today. Like, what is that knowledge for you? How do you know when, for me, it's a physical sensation in my body? It's my gut. Like I physically feel it in my heart. 

[00:05:13] Barb Patterson: What do you mean when you say you're listening to the Livestream, Livestream came through?

What does that mean? 

[00:05:19] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: It does sound strange, doesn't it? 

Yes. I am hooked on something. I am hooked on too many words for it. For me, it's this collective intelligence. It's this creative intelligence. It's something that is not my ego. Something that is not my thinking. It is something that. Is knowing something unfiltered by my thoughts of what I can and cannot do?

It is the thought before thinking if that makes any sense. 

[00:05:48] Barb Patterson: Yeah. Sometimes when we just go with what's present, we brainstorm, allow new ideas and current notions, and sit with it ourselves. Yeah.  So you're calling that, that live stream—connected into that more profound intelligence energy. Yeah. Creativity. I love that. That's great. 

The point about knowing, I think, is such a good question for all of us. How do you know? And it's funny because I was so mentally and used my logic and thinking to figure things out. And often, what would happen was I would get in these loops because I'd go back and forth.

Something would look good one day, and the next day, the exact opposite would look good. Or I could see pros and cons in both ways. And I couldn't get clear, and lack of clarity would create frustration because I'd get worried. Like I'm losing time. I have to decide. Or it would create self-doubt, as you said, because I feel.

I'd feel uncertain. So this question around, where do you go? Where do you look? Where do you listen for your clarity? Where does that clarity, that knowledge come from? And it has been a journey for me to listen beyond logic, thoughts, ruminating, and pros and cons of something.

Yes, the pros and cons. I remember years and years ago, like my sister and I were having a conversation, and she was sitting in this question of, should she have another child? And then she was also thinking. Potentially foster care, you know? So she consumed a lot of her thinking, you know, you get to a certain age as women, right?

You know, it starts to feel like you have to decide, right? 

We were talking, and I can relate to this. It's like we try and find the "right" answer. So there's a way that we think there is a correct answer. And if we figure that out, life will be better. We won't be burnt by the choice we make. It will go smoother.

That quest for the correct or better answer has consumed me. Yes. Yes. And so in that conversation, she wanted to know, like, ultimately, is she called? Is there a correct answer? Is she like on a significant, spiritual level? Is she called to have another child or to foster one?

But in that listening, it just occurred to me to say, to your point, it's just what came through organically in the moment. It's not a belief I had. It's not anything. It's just what came through organic at the moment. And I said, " You know, I don't think there's a correct answer here. I don't think God, you know, wants you to or doesn't want you to."

And for my sister, that was ultimately the question I said, "My guess is, either way, it is okay."; 

And we talked a little bit and hung up. And then, later, she said to me that when she heard that, it just rang true for her. Like something landed inside of her around that. And she got immediately relaxed, you know, was less pressured about making this choice.

And then that freedom that was created inside her let her relax and go about her life. And then, ultimately, that decision took care of itself over time. And, you know, in case you're wondering, she did not have more children or foster. 

I think it's an excellent example for all of us. It's like, yes. When we, first of all, let go of this idea that somehow there's a right and wrong choice. That there's a better choice. You know, that just keeps me so. 

Over the last couple of years, as I've probably mentioned, I've been by myself a lot with the pandemic and less travel, and there have been many moments of connection and visits and all of that. So it hasn't been all alone, just to be clear. But I've noticed that when I've been more uncomfortable or tired of it, or I feel moments of loneliness, I start thinking I should move. 

You know, I'm like 

[00:10:03] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Uhhuh. 

[00:10:03] Barb Patterson: Yes, I need to move! 

 I need to move where I am more connected and have more people and, you know, because I have these fantastic family and I have intense friendships and a lot of them are in other parts of the world or other parts of the country.

It looks like moving would take care of that.

[00:10:20] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Mm-hmm 

[00:10:20] Barb Patterson: Yet, every time I tune in, I just take the moving off my mind, or I ask myself, is it time to move?  keep it simple. I'm not trying to solve anything. I just keep it simple. Is it time to move? At this point, the answer is always no.

Now my mind is like, " Yeah, but what about this? What about that? What about this? Or how...?" You know? And then my mind likes to go there every once in a while, but again, when I keep it simple and check-in, it's like, is it time to move? The clarity, the answer is no. If I can let that be enough, that helps me relax.

It's when I want, "Yeah, but what about this? And what about that?"And I need to solve this, and I need to solve that. That keeps the noise and me sped up enough that I don't hear my knowledge when I can keep it simple. And just what's the next move? Am I meant to move now? Or is this a decision I should even care about right now?

You know, the simple question, the simple, next thing I often believe, in that, I can find my knowing. And I get it by just going beyond the chatter, relaxing as much as I can, and trusting that that is knowing it's there and it emerges, I can feel it. 

[00:11:39] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Many years ago, I was choosing between two jobs, and, you know, I made the pros and cons list. I thought about it logically. 

 When I was working with Rohini Ross, and I called her from my car because I had made a decision, I wanted to do one last check-in.

 What did I do? Was I thinking about myself in both situations? And then I felt in my body, which one felt better? With the head, you know, taking a little break. And sure enough, the one that felt better in my body wasn't what my head told me to take.

I wound up taking that one that felt better, leading me to exactly where I am. Now at that moment, I had no idea. I couldn't predict the number of events that had unfolded. Looking back now, of course, I can see that. 

So, for me, the 'how' is being able to quiet down enough in my mind to feel into my body what feels best.

I love what you said about not knowing beyond this step because if I go beyond this step, this moment, forget it. Forgot it. I'm overwhelmed because no answer in the future doesn't exist. And I've tried to answer the end that doesn't exist so often and got overwhelmed and unclear. I lost clarity because there was no clarity in the future. After all, it doesn't exist. Right? It's in this moment at this moment; what feels right? 

You and I did this right before this call. 

[00:13:08] Barb Patterson: We did we. We did. Are you ready? Do you want to go there? 

[00:13:11] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: We're ready! 

[00:13:15] Barb Patterson: First of all, I just want to reiterate, it's simple, not always easy, but if we can get comfortable not knowing why or not having to know steps 2, 3, 4. If we can get comfortable just listening and acting on the knowing just in that next step, it helps us. So that piece of making the 'yes or no' enough. Make the one next move the knowing of that enough. And from there, then I think we begin to trust that part of ourselves more and more. We realize we build trust in that relationship to it.

And I think the trust because this is something we've both been on journeys, allowed us today in our conversation before recording this to take a moment and listen. And so what I'll share is that because of circumstances, Melissa's great new opportunity, and then some gigs that I have going on, it was a natural time to say, "Oh, hey. Life is changing and shifting; where are we with our podcast?" And Melissa and I always started this with the intention of it being a series. When we talked about it, we couldn't predict the future. Not that we can now, either. We're just saying we both knew it was something we wanted to do together. We both knew the time was right. And we had no clue how long it would last. So what we said was, well, okay. We'll do it until it's time, and we'll call it a series, and well, you know, see what makes sense. And I don't mean to bury the lead, but to tell you that this is our last episode together.

We'll talk briefly about what's coming up next for us both. But I just want to say that we got to a place in our conversation before this call and going to that place of knowing, oh, okay. We weren't planning this; neither of us had this thought a week ago. Literally. 

[00:15:11] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Literally 

[00:15:12] Barb Patterson: Yet, when life showed up in a new way, it became like, "Oh, what's the implication to this, or should we?"

Both of us are willing and not afraid to look and listen and just sit with it. We both concluded that, yeah, the time is now. 

Now, what's so great about that is it has been a wonderful, fantastic ride. So grateful that we came together for the period that we did. And when we did. It was precisely the kind of thing I needed and was looking for to be with one another. I feel we bring out great things in each other, and I have loved listening to you, Melissa. And I loved learning from you, being with you, sharing this time, and hopefully making a difference for people in our conversations. And I'm also incredibly grateful that we could listen and just go with the natural energy of it—even today. 

I want to turn it over to you and say I love you. And I'm grateful to you. 

[00:16:18] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: I love you so much, Barb. And you know, you helped me come out of my shell doing this podcast. You created that container, the space for me to be my authentic self in the real world, in front of real people. And I just love how organically this has all unfolded. Talk about a knowing. 

You know, I remember walking in New York, reaching out to you and saying," Hey, I have this idea."

And a year later, because we didn't push it. We trusted; we listened. And I love now, however many episodes we are in, we get on the call this morning, and we listen and trust our knowing. I mean, we are walking our talk here, Barb Patterson. Right? And, you know, just because there's a knowing doesn't mean I don't have sadness, right?

Because I have so much appreciation for you and for you and such joy in doing this with you. Right? I see my growth as we've gone through it, to be more me. To step into me with you right there, looking in your eyes. So tremendous gratitude, tremendous. And, um, I hope that we have been able to help someone somewhere know that they're not alone. And that the more that we share the real stuff, the messy and the magical, the closer we are and connected we are together. So nothing but gratitude for what has been, and also excited about what's possible. And what's next? I mean, that's the beautiful thing about being a human. We get to have the cornucopia of our emotions at the moment. And as far as what's next, Barb, do you want to share a little bit about what you're up to? 

[00:17:54] Barb Patterson: Yeah, sure. And then you can talk about how REAL WOMEN REAL LIVES is going to live on. 

[00:18:00] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Sure. Sure. 

[00:18:01] Barb Patterson: Yeah. So for me, I am in the process of this intersection of how the profound and the practical come together. When we have a relationship to that deeper intelligence, that greater intelligence within, how it transforms the way we lead and move in our businesses. It can have both profound and practical implications, and that relationship... I continue in my evolution, in my work with people, to see that to be unapologetic about the relationship between that internal knowing, that inner climate, and that more profound nature of life, how it is the source of our wellbeing, creativity, and relationships.

And so I'm going to, shortly... can't put a dot on the line today, but begin to share both via a platform with some online programs, as well as a podcast where I will be interviewing other leaders, thought leaders out there doing this work about the relationship between the inner and the outer business and life.

And so more to come on that. And I'm excited about it all. 

[00:19:15] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Oh, I love that. That's going to be fun. I'm looking forward to that. 

And then, as for REAL WOMEN REAL LIVES, we're continuing. We are continuing with the second series, as you will. And you know, we just talked about it 25 minutes ago, but I feel that I would love to hear from you.

ou real women out there with real lives. I want to hear from you, and let's talk about what's on your mind and your heart to share with others so that we can feel more connected and know we're exactly where we need to be. So please reach out to realwomenreallivespodcast@gmail.com. So we can get you on here.

 I am excited. I have a couple of guests I'm super happy to talk to, and lots of love to you, especially Barb, and lots of love to all of you. 

[00:20:02] Barb Patterson: Yeah, thank you so much. And I just want to say, from the beginning of this thought and this podcast, Melissa always has had a desire to bring in other women and go deeper and go in all sorts of directions. So, I love that this was the beginning and that you're going to take it and keep growing the podcast and bring in new voices, interviews, and series. And I can't wait. I'm subscribed, and I will stay subscribed. 

[00:20:33] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Will you leave a review?

[00:20:38] Barb Patterson: Done. Done. But I just want to say I'm so grateful to you. Thank you for being my partner, being real and open, and creating a space for us to explore and share. And thank you to everyone for hanging with us. And we look forward to staying together. Please email realwomenreallivespodcast@gmail.com with any ideas of things you'd like Melissa to continue to share or guests you'd like her to bring. 

Thank you to Jenée Arthur from Peripheral View Media for supporting us. 

[00:21:19] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: Oh yes. We love Jenée. 

[00:21:20] Barb Patterson: Yeah. We love you, Jenée. 

So much. Love to you all. Come back to your knowing. Trust that inner knowing. Take just the next step. And we can't wait to stay in touch and stay connected.

[00:21:34] Melissa Palazzo-Hart: So much love!