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The Fintech Marketers and Leaders Podcast
The Fintech Marketers & Leaders Podcast is built to uncover actionable insights and explore the latest trends with some of fintech’s hardest-hitting marketers and leaders, so you know exactly what it takes to grow. Join our host, Shameer Sachdev, bi-weekly as he explores real-life growth tactics and insights that you can take advantage of when pushing your fintech to the next level.
The Fintech Marketers and Leaders Podcast
Go big or go home: Growing a Leading European Fintech With Monika Liikamaa, Co Founder at Enfuce
“We don’t do shit but we get shit done”
Monika Liikamaa, Co-Founder and Co-CEO of Nordic payment service provider Enfuce sat down with Shameer Sachdev for the latest episode The Fintech Markers and Leaders Podcast.
Monika’s visionary thinking teamed with her 20+ years of experience in the fast-paced payment industry has led her to build and grow Enfuce into one of Europe’s leading fintechs with over 13 million end users.
Her focus is creating sustainable solutions for Enfuce’s broad portfolio of customers and her vast knowledge of the industry helps her do just that.
In this episode, our host, Shameer Sachdev sat down with Monika to dive into:
👉Agile technical capabilities
👉Effective people and processes
👉Go big or go home mentality
👉Supporting positive global impacts
👉Acquring significant partnerships
👉Balancing sales and partnerships
👉Making the most out of your offering
👉Setting big goals for systematic growth
👉Knowing your strengths and weaknesses
👉The importance of communication
👉Attracting top talent
👉 Supporting global teams
And much more…
If you’re interested in marketing strategies to grow your fintech startup or just want some insight into the best growth practices, tune in to this episode of The FML Podcast.
Subscribe here:
👉 Website: www.thefmlpodcast.com
👉 Email: hello@growthgorilla.co.uk
And connect with Monika here:
About the show
The FML Podcast is brought to you by Growth Gorilla. To find out how our marketing experts can boost your fintech’s growth, head to “growthgorilla.co.uk”. And make sure to search for “the fml podcast” in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else podcasts are found. Don’t forget to click follow to ensure you don’t miss any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Growth Gorilla, thanks for listening.
Welcome to the FML Podcast, the podcast on a mission to uncover actionable insights, explore the latest trends, and to catalyze your fintech's growth. Join Growth Gorilla's founder and managing director, Shamir Sajdev, and some of fintech's hardest-hitting marketers and leaders.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome everyone to today's episode of the FML podcast. Today we're joined by Monica Licama, co-founder at Enfuse. Thank you for joining us today.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure.
SPEAKER_01:For everyone listening, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and your journey so far?
SPEAKER_02:I'm 47 years young, mother of four, been in the payment industry for quite some time. So I started off as a developer back in the last millennium and then decided I suck at coding and I don't really like it. So I went into the telco industry and when I left there in 2006 and founded my first company, I left the position at a big telco as the IT manager of that Finnish operation. So I'm born in Sweden, north of Sweden, to Finnish parents and been living in Finland since 1996, so quite some time. Then in 2006, founded my first company, ended up building banks, became a bank CIO, then started probably realizing that I'm more of a builder. I like doing things that people... think it's hard. And I also want to do big stuff, like things that matter. And then in 2011, I changed jobs. So I was asked to join a company called Krosky Banking Solutions and build their card and payment business, which I did. And that's when I met my to-be co-founders. And then back in 2015, I wanted to start scaling the business we had built, but the owners didn't. So I wasn't left with any choice than to resign. And since I have poor kids and a lot of house loan, I needed to work for a living. So then I took a job at a traditional bank. headed their card and payment business for a little while and thought, but what do I want to do when I grow up? And I also had done my executive MBA because apparently I was bored and I had two little things to do. And then I decided like, no, building is something I want to do. And then the opportunity presented itself. I grabbed it, called my co-founder and co-CEO, Denise, and asked her, should we? She said, yes. Then she asked, what? I said, shouldn't we just build a payment processor that is better, faster and globally scalable? And she was like, yeah, let's do it. And that's pretty much the beginning of Enfuse. So the reason why we went public cloud was that we wanted to make it global from day one, like really setting the foundation and technical stuff. And the only way to do it was to put it in a public cloud. So we were actually the first one in the world to put it in a public cloud and then get it approved by the financial supervisory authority and started implementing. And also the fact that our first implementation was revolving credit on the consumer side in three countries, three currencies, three different legislations on how you repay the debt. And then the B2B closed loop kind of set the tone of where we are today. So fast forward. six and a half years. We operate in Europe and we also have a big customer in the Middle East. I think we have six offices currently, or at least we have people in six different countries and really focused on growing and enabling good services in the payment industry that then enables us as users, whether we are consumers or business people. to have better ways of paying. That's in short. Try to compress it.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for that. Do you mind just giving us a quick overview of exactly what Infuse is and what you offer and your end solution?
SPEAKER_02:It's an easy question. Maybe the answer isn't as simple. But first and foremost, we are a processor. So we are an issuer processor. We enable it. the issuance of money in digital format globally. So we are a global processor, but focus areas currently to grow very strong in Europe. And then of course, go outside of Europe. In order to do that really well and enable different kind of companies, because we have companies that are our customers that are fleet and fuel providers, they are big merchants, they are bank, they are financial institutions, We have portfolio capabilities that we can issue any type of card, which is like virtual card, Apple Pay, Google Pay, Samsung Pay. It can be consumer programs. It can be corporate programs, business cards. We have customers like PLEO on the business side, expense management. We have customers on the fleet and fuel side like OKQ8 or ST1 in the Nordics. We have big merchants, etc. So we have a very broad portfolio capabilities. And in order then to also enable fintechs and startups to issue payment methods, or then maybe big merchants that doesn't want to be regulated, because we talk about electronic money and money and people's data, we are also a regulated entity ourselves. So we are an e-money company. license holder. We are regulated by the Finnish Financial Supervisory Authority and we're passported in the European countries. So depending on who you are and what you need, we can help you. So what we always say is that we don't go in explaining our technical capabilities because tech is never a problem. Not for us, at least. Probably for some, but not for us. And also the people and the processes, so the compliance and the knowledge that we have. So we start always by asking, how does success look for you? What do you want to achieve? How will embedding payments or issuing a payment method or card help you succeed in your business. And that's pretty much like, for example, with Playo, they are an expense management service. So for them, of course, the card plays a role because that's where you do the actual everyday paying, whether it be a virtual card or whether it be a plastic card, whether it be Apple Pay or Google Pay, depending on the phone, et cetera. So that's what we do.
SPEAKER_01:You're clearly interested in solving big problems and big challenges. Tell me about the go big or go home mentality at Enfuse.
SPEAKER_02:It pretty much means that when we do things, we can do stuff in a smaller way for now, but it always needs to scale because we are building Enfuse to be a company that has a positive impact on the world. Like we say that the world has to be a better place with an Enfuse in it. than without. And if we look at what we are really good at, we are really good at payments. So when we take that competence, like we have fraud prevention services, we have awesome people also, not just the tech, and then understanding the compliance. So with that competence, we can enable parties who are really good to issue services. And that's pretty much. So go big or go home means like when we do things, we want to be number one. We want to be the best. Because I don't think that anyone wants to work with someone who at least doesn't strive to be that. And we want to set a standard and we want to live up to it. And also like by default, Finns, because we are born out of Finland, even though we have 20 plus nationalities working for us and English is the language and we are offices in many European countries. It's still like the humbleness But the work ethic. So again, do things that matter. Do it big enough that it has a big impact. And that means like, you know, when you do stuff like we have also this thing, we have a lot of sayings like don't do shit, but we get shit down. So it's a connection to the go big or go home. So don't go in to do something small because if you want to have a big impact, strive for making it big.
SPEAKER_01:There's also kind of manifested itself in a lot of the partnerships that you've pulled together. I mean, you're working with, I think, MasterCard, Visa, AWS. I think we talk to a lot of B2B fintechs and the two things at the top of their agenda is more customers or customers in general and partnerships. How has Infuse ignited those initial conversations? What do you think has been the catalyst being able to acquire those partnerships and acquire the customers?
SPEAKER_02:Well, first of all, you need to bring something to the table. So we are in that sense bullish because we know what we are good at, but we also know what we are not good at. So we want to work with the ones who also want to be really good at something because again it is all about that like don't go for mediocrity we don't like yeah let's do something mediocre who should we partner up with so like if we want to be the best if we want to be biggest in a way that it has the best impact which we do then you need to find the partner that will enable it because for us also the values when we founded Enfuse I've been working a long long time I was like 40 If I would have wanted an easy life, I would have stayed at the bank. But I wanted to do things that matter. And so it is my co-founder. So it was all about, let's make sure that the hours we spend are spent to do things that have a difference. And with that attitude, you will attract like-minded people. It is as simple as that. And it is as hard as that. But when you know what you bring to the table, you can also expect and ask. So in the end of the day, we are all wanting to do things that we can be proud of. And I think pride has a big role to play because again, I don't believe for a second that anyone wakes up like, oh God, today I'm going to suck. Today I'm going to go to work, I'm going to suck. And then people, of course, sometimes do suck. But again, trying to become better, working with peers that will push you to take the next phase. That's what we want to do. And I do think that that attracts both partners and it attracts employees. People want to be part of this journey and that in itself is already awesome and makes me really happy and proud of the things that we have achieved. And yet this is only the beginning. We are only in the early phases of what is to come.
SPEAKER_01:Lots of questions kind of sprung to my mind from that and in no particular order. So you mentioned obviously finding like-minded people and getting the most out of the hours. Equally as well though, like any business, you've got goals and targets and KPIs that need hitting, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:How do you manage the patience required to go and acquire a big partner, a big client versus taking perhaps like, you know, making an easier sale? Because ultimately you still need the revenue, you still need the business, you can't all be sitting around doing nothing at the end of the day. You have to be doing something. So how do you balance that and manage that?
SPEAKER_02:It's a good question. And to put it like, first of all, when we founded the company, we also decided what kind of company we want to be. So like no compromises, but of course, understanding that a sustainable company is a company that makes more money than it spends. And of course, now we're in a growth mode, so we are doing an investment, but we always know, how to pull black figures. Because our first two years, we made a profit and paid dividend. And then we're like, fuck, everyone wants to actually work with us. Not everyone, but like from that segment. And then we started growing. So what we do is that we put a very big goal. So as I said, We want to be the best because as being the best in the business, we can really do things that matter and as such have the impact we want to. And in order for us to have an impact, because we are an infrastructure provider, we are like the spine of like the backbone of companies. We really need to be really good at that and the compliance side. So putting that in place, but of course, also then doing both the smaller cases that are often faster. but there are also often a bigger potential for growth. So we have been in the growth journey with Playa for many years. I think 2019 or even 18, I actually don't remember. We've been part of that. So they are a good example of we started small and we've grown together. Then we have customers that come with big volumes and we do migrations. And for them, it takes longer to close it, but the contracts are often longer. And the star of revenue is better. So we need to do both because in order to be relevant for the bigger player, you need to be showcasing that you actually are fast. You do things that other ones aren't very good at, or you do it better and faster. And then also for the players like player who then grow to be the incumbent, if you want to use that word, which is kind of connected a bit like maybe negatives as well. you need to have the big volume cases. So for us, it's been to do both. And it means that you have to have the patience to work systematically and understand that the work you put in today might make realized in two, three years. Having said that, you need to have enough work all the time and you need to run after the things you want to run. So what we are also doing is we were fortunate enough When we were the first one in the world and when we launched Apple Pay and Google Pay, people were like, who the fuck are these guys? How can they be so few and they are doing this? So inbound started happening. And then what we needed to do is start identifying and understanding who do we want to work with? Where do we see the potential? What can we be proud of being part of? And that's what we are balancing all the time and being very specific. Having said that, also the big hairy audacious goals like We want to IPO by 2027. Why does that matter? Well, it matters because now we are really systematically working for our next big target, and that's to go towards 100 million in revenue. So we are not there, but that's what we're working on. And then we take it down to objectives and key results. So that's how we make sure that the whole company, because we are in different locations, we have different people, we are around 140 plus people, it's really focused and aligned to execute on stuff. So it isn't as hard as you would think, but it's... fucking hard to put it in a nice way, because it's all about communication. How do you communicate? And especially being a Finnish company, typical for us is that we are really, really hardcore in tech and compliance, but we are not very good at marketing. So that's really, if we look at our Series C funding that we took in in December last year, It was all about, okay, now we need to scale sales and marketing. So again, that's what we're doing because that is imperative so that we reach the 100 million, which is a milestone in order to reach the IPO readiness. So that we are then, why does IPO matter? Well, it matters because then we have, work for big enough goals that we can actually start looking at what is the impact that we're actually having. So what kind of customers have we helped along that journey? What are they doing? And how can we make sure, again, that in the end of the day, the world is a better place with us in it than without?
SPEAKER_01:Again, lots of questions that come off the back of that.
SPEAKER_03:I
SPEAKER_01:want to talk a bit about the marketing and the sales stuff. But before we kind of get onto that, One of the first points you mentioned was about building a company that other people want to work for and creating an environment and also communication. Given the fact that you've got 140 people across six countries, how do you ensure that you are hiring A players who align with your values as a business?
SPEAKER_02:A really good question. And I think that's something that we can definitely up our game at. and and what we did is like when we're looking at what type of resources what what are we really good at and what aren't we really really good at so we talk about this first generation of end users you know when we really knew everyone already so you kind of knew that okay that person is someone we want on this journey because they can really bring something to the table. And then you come to the next phase where like, shit, I don't know everyone anymore. Like when we are hiring. So we need to have systematics in it. We need to put expectations. So again, then the culture and values play a strong role. Like what is the expectations? Like what are we promising to give you? And what kind of person are you? So we have this zero asshole policy again. Like it is important that, that, you are yourself because when you are who you are, then authenticity and trust, because we are in the trust game. We talk about people's data and people's money. So I mean, there is not that much more that actually mean more. So we need to protect it at every angle. So finding that right type of people is really important. And what we also did is we hired our Our first chief, and Jessica is probably listening, so our awesome chief people officer, Jessica Collingwood, and what she's bringing to the table is really the background in scaling systematically the way of onboarding. So we have this thing that we say that, you know, you have to have a glass half full mentality because if you have a glass half empty, it will be a challenge because change, is something I can promise you. Things will change all the time. Sometimes it might be faster, and sometimes it might be slower, but as long as you know what position you are playing. So I really have to say, we talk a lot, especially me, in football terms, and let's not go into how all of us are sucking at football currently from a European aspect, because we didn't even qualify, so let's not go there. But... Yeah, exactly. Yeah, my British colleagues are like, what the... Anyways, you need to be really good at what you're supposed to be playing, what role, but understanding what are we actually here to do. So we talk a lot also about the customer centricity, that what does it actually mean? And we really like, for example, AWS, one of our partners, taking inspiration from them. They are really very customer centric. So how do we get that in a way... That we help our customers succeed. We take kind of the bullshit out of payments. The hardship. Because it's not easy. But it's easy if you know what you're doing. And that's our job. So it's not an easy answer. Also, it's really important when we onboard people. We have received quite good feedback on our onboardings. Everyone goes through an eight-week onboarding process, but of course you start working as well during, and then depending on what part of, or let's say what position you are playing, you will have your specific onboarding to that task at hand. But still, the overall culture, who we are, what do we want to be famous for, what do we want to be known for, all of those play an important part in understanding who we are and that you actually understand believe in it yourself because otherwise again this would just be any work and since we want to be the best you know we need to have a game mentality
SPEAKER_01:so i want to switch streams slightly and um you you mentioned when you got your your sort of first round i think was your seed funding um last year you made a concerted effort to really drive sales and marketing b2b organizations notoriously struggle with marketing it's obviously nothing like b2c what was sort of infuse's approach to effectively acquiring new customers you've got a complex product a big product how did you sort of tackle that you know what was your approach
SPEAKER_02:well first of all uh it was our serious c so like yeah yeah no no it's fine 45 million euros so we raised 60 uh up on up until till this day, but put it like that. It's not easy. Like, as I said, we are really good at many things, but we suck at marketing. So what do we do? First of all, we're like, how do we simplify what we're doing enough that other ones would actually understand what we do? Because we started off offering card payment solutions, if I'm not mistaken, back in 2016. People really was like, yeah, I wonder what that means. And then we're like, okay, okay, let's make it simple. payment services. That was a shit show. Because I mean, the inbound was massive, but it was like anything and everything like, you know, can I do what? And we're like, okay, no, take it too much time to just sort out the inbound. And then this card as a service kind of became an understanding, like, we're like, but is it really card? Is the account? And we're like, yeah, well, anyway, It's a card. That's how the industry understands. Let's talk in language they understand. And then we have this Lego bricks like, okay, so what are, because there are so many capabilities, how do we visualize it in a way? The challenge is that it's maybe a bit oversimplified now. So what we need to do is really look at, okay, how do we make it even better? So we have, as I said before, had a good fortune of having Inbound. It's been more like, who do we put time and effort to? And as with this financing round, we looked into, okay, let's scale. Now let's seriously scale this stuff. So we hired EVP sales, chief commercial officer, chief people's officer, and chief marketing officer. So Vanessa came from Celonis, and she's been working now on making sure that together with our chief commercial officer, Andy, we package it in a way that we are better understood in our core market. So the jury is still out because we just hired these people. They started, I would say, like one and a half months ago. It feels like a lifetime ago, but something like that. So working a lot to get that up and running so that we can then start scaling and again, target So the sales is already targeting customers we know we want to work with. And then, of course, with the partners. Partners is really important. So if you look at Visa, we look at MasterCard, we look at AWS, they are a really important source of, let's say, qualified leads in a way. Because if you want to issue a card with a brand, you might like... contact the schema. And then they are like, yeah, we need a processor who can actually deliver it in this aggressive timeline. And by the way, they actually don't have a license themselves. So who fits the mold in the best way? Well, Enfuse. So as we are a principal member also of the schemas, that's how we are currently working at it.
SPEAKER_01:That's really interesting. I think that inbound piece in building the infrastructure and getting those key partnerships in place of, you know, Yeah, I mean, you know, big foundations to drive your growth. As you mentioned, obviously, you've raised your Series C, my apologies. Significant amount of money to raise. I want to kind of touch upon the kind of conversation around effectively not enough VC money going towards female founders. You know, I think such a small proportion ultimately do end up going to female founders. What was sort of your experience like? You know, did you, you know, Did you find it difficult? Did you come up against any sort of blockers? Can you just sort of talk to me a little bit about that sort of journey?
SPEAKER_02:I can only talk from my own experience and my viewpoint. And as you see, I'm not born yesterday. So kind of been around the block, been a bank CIO, et cetera. So I know what we are good at. And I know my co-founder, Denise, she's a little bit younger than me, not much, but a bit, which means that In the beginning of our funding journey, she had a little bit like, because we met all these expert VCs and everyone had a fucking opinion and didn't really understand what we're doing. And they were like, but are you really doing it? Do you really understand? Blah, blah, blah. There weren't very many female VCs. I don't think we actually met anyone. So it was all male. But on the other hand, like we're used to it, like being in a male dominated environment since, you know, very small and young. So I didn't see that as a problem. But I was like, hey, yo, this is what we are good at. This is what we're going to do, period. And of course, since we had black numbers, I mean, like our first growth financing, we went to the bank and took a loan. And the only collateral was the company because we made much more money than we actually spent. So we knew what we were doing. Nobody can come up and say to me like, oh, you don't know what you're doing. We're like, yeah, we know. Here it is. You want to accelerate this. Having said that, I do think that one thing is that I got a lot of questions like, you're not a very typical FinTech founder. I was like, what do you mean? Well, first of all, you're not 23 and you're not a guy. I said, no, not last time I looked. And I actually don't want to be 23 again. Maybe 38, but not at least 23. So I do think that... Yeah, I think that's probably what you are now. But anyway, so I would say women need to help other women more. so that there are more women to invest in. And I know someone might say like, yeah, yeah, the reason why women don't get funded is because there are not many women companies. That's not true either. But I think you have to systematically want to find those because in the end, the world will become a better place if there is diversity. So my advice also to women is like, if you're passionate about something and you want to get it done, Just fucking do it. I mean, like, don't listen to other ones' opinions about it. Of course, listen in a way that, okay, I hear your opinions. Thank you for your feedback. And then ignore and push through. And by that, I'm sure that we will get much more investable women-founded companies also in the future. And I'm happy to see that women are stepping up to the game And also us as mothers, I have two daughters and two sons. It's really important to just say like, hey, in the end of the day, whatever you want to do in your life, when you put in the work, there's nothing stopping you. So just do it. But that's like also where the go big or go home mentality comes from. Like whatever makes you happy, but nothing comes for free. So you better work, bitch, as we said with Denise.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm a big believer in, I mean, on the other side of the coin, when you sort of talk about diversity and stuff, obviously being coloured, there's always been, you know, I was in the city in the investment space and there was natural barriers there, but I kind of always just took the view of, I'll just work harder than everybody else.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Because that's the one thing that I could control, right? I could control my level of input. Yes. And then as long as I sort of push hard enough, then... you know, eventually you, you, you break through, but you know, it's, it's.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And you learn because I had this, like, I was often the only woman in, in anything. I was also the youngest often. So I used to be like during my studies, I drove a taxi to fund my, my, my education. And I was actually a jail guard for a while in a male jail. And then I, I went in as a developer in the IT, telco industry, all mail, all the time, all the time. But it was exactly like that. I made sure to focus on what I can control and I can control how much effort I put in. And I know that everyone is like, yeah, yeah, but why should you be better than them? Why should you have to work more than the average? Well, that's just life. Life isn't fair. fucking work your ass off and make a difference. That's how things will change.
SPEAKER_01:Everyone starts at a different place in life, right? If it's not your gender, it's your color. If it's not your color, it's your age. And if it's not your age,
SPEAKER_03:it's
SPEAKER_01:your socioeconomic background. There is obviously a demographic that male, white, from an affluent background living in the Western world that are naturally going to be further ahead on all of those things but at the same time as well you know it's not like there aren't successes around the rest of the globe um yeah
SPEAKER_02:yeah yeah and i think yeah exactly and i think that's where it's it's great to live this life now because in the end of the day now things are progressing yes we have a lot of bad shit as well but if we just look at how things are digitalizing, how much that capability to log on to something, to work from anywhere, gives some more potential to, again, achieve something. But of course, we are privileged. Like you and me, we are privileged. So then it also matters that we take the struggles we've had to come where we are and pay it forward. So again, if we think about the zero-asshole policy that we have, We need to be grateful and we need to be humble enough to make sure that the things that other ones can't achieve, we can help them. Because I don't want the world to be a shitty like, as I said, I have four kids and you have two. Like, we want the world to be better when we exit than how we found it. Otherwise, we shouldn't like, yeah, that would be horrible if we would have something else in mind.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And I think the whole point around, you know, the no arsehole policy, we've got a similar thing. Ours is we don't tolerate arseholes. So we won't work with or for or partner with arseholes. It's as simple as that. And, you know, several, you know, over the years, clients have been warned.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, exactly. And for us, it was like in order to be gender neutral, because in Finnish, it's actually like zero gender. Like, don't be a dick. But then we're like, we want to be neutral because, you know, a woman can also have the traits of an asshole. So then we're like, oh, zero asshole policy makes more sense. So that's what we're doing. Doing our small bit piece in the universe.
SPEAKER_01:It makes a difference. I think like, I mean, when I first started the agency and we made the first few hires, it suddenly dawned on me that I'd hired three white men. And it wasn't out of any sort of conscious bias, but then it made me realize, I thought, is this the company that I want to build? Or do I want to build a company where actually we really are inclusive? And to the point about making the world a better place, are we giving equal opportunity to everyone? So, you know, I think also you do need to, to a certain degree, make a concerted effort to hire in people that aren't reflections of yourself as well, right? Yes,
SPEAKER_02:yes. Yes, and I have learned it during my lifetime that Enfuse would be a pretty horrible place if everyone would be like me. Probably nothing would get done. So I think that's one thing to realize. And I think if we look back at where you used to work, and so you probably hired what you recognize. And I think that's exactly what is important that you are mindful. So like things don't just happen. You make a conscious decisions of what you want to happen as you do with business in general. It's the same with like setting the standard. What is it that we want to have? Where can we find it? And that's what we've also said, like everyone like, but yeah, but do you need to have really, really in-depth industry knowledge to work for MPUs? It depends on what role. Some roles require that because that adds on the knowledge. Some definitely don't because in the end of the day, we also want different ages of people so that we get the different views and then we don't become like the incumbents. This is the only way we're going to do it because I used to be that. I remember when I was a bank CIO, I was like, business people are just stupid because they have a lot of stupid ideas. about stuff and that just costs money. And then I don't know what happened, but somehow I realized that that's not the way to go. But I do think that it's important to systematically want to be more open-minded, as you said, about the conscious bias, actually understanding how you... But it's not easy. It's not easy, but it's something that you need to put an effort into and then it can become better.
SPEAKER_01:What's the future look like for Enfuse? You talk about an IPO. as a big goal. What's beyond that?
SPEAKER_02:I always said that I want Enfuse to be better and bigger than Google, just because there has to be something to... I like examples. For me, it's easier to understand how big do we want to be. I also understand that I personally am a builder, so some point in time when we are a global player, we have people in different continents of the world, We have amazing customers that we're helping do amazing things. Of course, wanting to help financial inclusion, fight fraud, fight human trafficking. Pretty much anything where money isn't in digital form is a bad thing. So that's where we want energies to be. And then if I look at myself, I will then probably not be being a CEO because like, Being a co-CEO is a means to an end, but the end can be reached without me being a CEO. So I'm not in love with the position. I'm in love with making sure that Enfuse becomes what it's destined to be. Then what I play for role, I really want to be an investor. So I want in the future to be part of enabling hundreds of Enfuses in whatever parts of the business or tech or whatever it is. But that's where I see myself. So when I'm older, when I'm older than I am today, that's what I want. So all the learnings, the do's and don'ts, the heads ups and stuff, I want to be able to share that. But not now. Now, I think that for the next five to 10 years, this is it. This is plan A. There is no plan B. This is plan A. So going forward and then stepping a bit aside, I really like what Richard Branson has done. So like building the Virgin brand to be synonymous for something like awesome, but it's not equal to him. And I think I hope to, that's what I'm, my goal is to get him with my co-CEO, Denise. It's like, how do we make sure that Enfuse reaches this, its full potential, and then that we are part of the journey, but we are not the journey.
SPEAKER_01:Monica, thank you. I've really enjoyed that conversation. But before I let you go, I
SPEAKER_02:want
SPEAKER_01:to just jump into our quick fire round. I'm actually quite looking forward to this. Do you have any books that you're reading at the moment?
SPEAKER_02:I like reading books where people are killed in a very brutal manner.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I don't know what kind of diagnosis that puts on me. But so I when I read books, I read them in Swedish because that's my my kind of the native language that I'm born into. And it like releases my brain. And I like Kepler books, etc. So where people are really tortured and killed. in a graphic way and i also like movies like horror movies like smile really really disturbing movie i recommend it highly so yeah i don't know what it says about me and and talking it to you sounds like what the fuck is wrong with me but anyway that's what i'm doing
SPEAKER_01:just just making a little note that's all
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_01:flag this one um Other than Infuse, what other FinTech do you admire or would you say is your favorite FinTech brand?
SPEAKER_02:Of course, all of my customers.
SPEAKER_01:Naturally.
SPEAKER_02:Naturally, yeah. That's an interesting question, actually. I haven't thought about that as much because... I could go into a very long dialogue about what is a fintech actually. I do think that we are, if you think about it being financial technology, but then it seems like somehow fintech has become a word to describe a startup slash scale-up doing something where money is involved. And I would say the ones that are doing it in a compliant and good way and giving good services to the customer. Yeah, I have to say I like PLEO. I mean, like what the brand stands for, how they are executing it, how they are growing and so forth. So, of course, that is not just because it's our customer, but also because we really like them. And then there are many other fintechs, but I think I'm very, that's like, I don't, I often say that I don't like people. I don't like brands either. I mean, like I use Mac and Apple stuff, not because I love it, but because it's easy because it syncs and stuff. So yeah, I'm pretty much a weirdo, but I like cars though. I like electric cars. I don't like Tesla. I wonder why, but I do like Audi, et cetera. So.
SPEAKER_01:What's the best bit of life advice you've ever received?
SPEAKER_02:It's what my husband always says. Yksi murhe kerrallaan. And that means one worry at a time.
SPEAKER_03:Very true.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because I think what that means, even though if you have a pile of shit and worries, if you take them one at a time, and you can take them really fast, it never becomes overwhelming. So I keep saying that. Yksi murhe kerrallaan. One worry. worry or problem at a time then we can do many concurrent and very fast but i think that's probably the and i hope my husband don't listen to this podcast because then he would go and that's like oh
SPEAKER_01:god um and then what's one thing that i haven't asked you that perhaps i should have asked you
SPEAKER_02:maybe like why are the finns the happiest nation in the world Because by default, we might not seem that happy. But I would say one thing. It's the sauna. The sauna culture. Because people, like when you read all this, you know, monk who sold his Ferrari and meditation here and there. And people waking up at five o'clock in the morning and doing weird shit. And they try to be more mindful and blah, blah, blah. I actually did once a mindfulness course and it stressed the fuck out of me. because everyone was so slow. And I think one thing why we Finns are considered, why we at least feel we are really happy, is it's the sauna. Because in the end of the day, I'm from the north part, I'm used to it being pitch black half of the time and then bright the half of the time. So like six months it's pitch black and then the rest it's bright all the time. But then you have the sauna. So you go into the sauna, You throw a bit of water on the stove and that's when you probably what you would call meditate. So that's the magical sound. And if you want to have a magical experience, please join us. So here in Finland today, it's minus 11. We have around half a meter of snow and it's pitch dark, but it's not that dark because it's snow and white. So welcome. And remember, Santa Claus is from Finland.
SPEAKER_01:And on that note, I think that's the perfect place to, at Christmas Eve as well. I think it's great timing. Monica, thank you very, very much for coming on today. Thank you for having
SPEAKER_02:me. Likewise.
SPEAKER_00:The FML Podcast is brought to you by Growth Guerrilla. To find out how our marketing growth experts can boost your fintech growth, head to growthguerrilla.co.uk and make sure to search for the FML Podcast in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or anywhere else podcasts are found. Don't forget to click follow to ensure you don't miss any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Growth Guerrilla, thanks for listening.
