{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":5.76,"endTime":8.37,"body":"Hi, and welcome"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":5.76,"endTime":8.37,"body":"to Uncommon Sense from The"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":8.37,"endTime":12.3,"body":"Sociological Review, where we"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":8.37,"endTime":12.3,"body":"seize the taken-for-granted and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":12.3,"endTime":15.66,"body":"see it afresh through a"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":12.3,"endTime":15.66,"body":"sociological lens. I'm Rosie"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":15.66,"endTime":17.34,"body":"Hancock in Sydney, Australia."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":17.51,"endTime":19.4,"body":"And I'm"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":17.51,"endTime":19.4,"body":"Alexis Hieu Truong in Ottawa,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":20.18,"endTime":23.21,"body":"Canada—recording here as the sun"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":20.18,"endTime":23.21,"body":"comes up, just as it goes down"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":23.21,"endTime":24.08,"body":"where you are Rosie."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":24.0,"endTime":26.16,"body":"Yeah, I guess you"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":24.0,"endTime":26.16,"body":"would have just gotten out of"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":26.16,"endTime":30.69,"body":"bed, and I'm pretty much ready"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":26.16,"endTime":30.69,"body":"to get into bed. So, now, I"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":30.69,"endTime":34.08,"body":"usually work on religion and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":30.69,"endTime":34.08,"body":"activism, and Alexis here looks"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":34.08,"endTime":36.63,"body":"at young people and mental"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":34.08,"endTime":36.63,"body":"health, right, Alexis?"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":36.68,"endTime":37.01,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":37.45,"endTime":39.37,"body":"So, although"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":37.45,"endTime":39.37,"body":"those two things are pretty"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":39.37,"endTime":42.49,"body":"different, and although Alexis"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":39.37,"endTime":42.49,"body":"and I are in different sides of"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":42.49,"endTime":45.79,"body":"the world, we, along with the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":42.49,"endTime":45.79,"body":"team at The Sociological Review,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":45.79,"endTime":48.94,"body":"believe sociology is for"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":45.79,"endTime":48.94,"body":"everyone. It shouldn't be hidden"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":48.94,"endTime":52.27,"body":"in dusty libraries, or buried in"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":48.94,"endTime":52.27,"body":"dense journal articles behind"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":52.27,"endTime":56.08,"body":"paywalls. So, Uncommon Sense"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":52.27,"endTime":56.08,"body":"steps away from the university,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":56.2,"endTime":58.15,"body":"and looks at stuff that affects"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":56.2,"endTime":58.15,"body":"us all."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":58.48,"endTime":60.46,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":58.48,"endTime":60.46,"body":"crucially, you don't have to be"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":60.46,"endTime":64.66,"body":"a sociologist to think like one."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":60.46,"endTime":64.66,"body":"So, wherever you are, whoever"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":64.66,"endTime":66.7,"body":"you are, this podcast is for"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":64.66,"endTime":66.7,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":72.88,"endTime":75.67,"body":"Today, we're"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":72.88,"endTime":75.67,"body":"talking about Care. It's a word"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":75.67,"endTime":78.58,"body":"that's become especially"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":75.67,"endTime":78.58,"body":"powerful, or you could say a"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":78.58,"endTime":81.73,"body":"little bit hollow in the past"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":78.58,"endTime":81.73,"body":"couple of years in the context"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":81.73,"endTime":85.93,"body":"of COVID-19. It's also something"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":81.73,"endTime":85.93,"body":"we might be quick to associate"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":85.93,"endTime":89.26,"body":"with, I don't know latex gloves,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":85.93,"endTime":89.26,"body":"care homes, and also"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":89.26,"endTime":94.39,"body":"problematically women, right?"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":89.26,"endTime":94.39,"body":"Alexis, if I said \"care\" to you,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":94.69,"endTime":95.89,"body":"what comes to mind?"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":96.13,"endTime":99.91,"body":"Hmm,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":96.13,"endTime":99.91,"body":"becoming an adult! So, I have a"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":99.91,"endTime":103.06,"body":"small son, and when I think of"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":99.91,"endTime":103.06,"body":"care, I think of taking care of"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":103.06,"endTime":107.38,"body":"him when he was born and since"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":103.06,"endTime":107.38,"body":"then. Also, I think about the"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":107.38,"endTime":111.1,"body":"uncertainties around taking care"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":107.38,"endTime":111.1,"body":"of my parents as they get older."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":111.19,"endTime":114.13,"body":"Yeah, me too,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":111.19,"endTime":114.13,"body":"actually. Well, today, we're"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":114.13,"endTime":117.13,"body":"talking to someone whose work"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":114.13,"endTime":117.13,"body":"really bust the idea of care"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":117.13,"endTime":121.0,"body":"right open, tying it to big"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":117.13,"endTime":121.0,"body":"things like inequality and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":121.0,"endTime":124.33,"body":"gender. And that's been the case"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":121.0,"endTime":124.33,"body":"for years, whether in her"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":124.33,"endTime":127.84,"body":"landmark '97 study of working"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":124.33,"endTime":127.84,"body":"class young woman in the north"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":127.84,"endTime":130.57,"body":"of England, which is called"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":127.84,"endTime":130.57,"body":"\"Formations of Class and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":130.57,"endTime":135.01,"body":"Gender\", or in her more recent"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":130.57,"endTime":135.01,"body":"work on solidarity, care, and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":135.07,"endTime":139.33,"body":"yep, COVID-19. She's the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":135.07,"endTime":139.33,"body":"feminist sociologist Professor"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":139.33,"endTime":141.79,"body":"Bev Skeggs. Hi, Bev, welcome."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":141.82,"endTime":142.63,"body":"Hi!"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":142.84,"endTime":144.04,"body":"That's so great"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":142.84,"endTime":144.04,"body":"to have you on."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":144.07,"endTime":145.42,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":144.07,"endTime":145.42,"body":"inviting me."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":145.45,"endTime":149.26,"body":"Hi, Bev. So,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":145.45,"endTime":149.26,"body":"we shared an office before. But"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":149.29,"endTime":152.17,"body":"when you started out, you did"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":149.29,"endTime":152.17,"body":"research on working class women"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":152.17,"endTime":155.38,"body":"in northeast England, touching"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":152.17,"endTime":155.38,"body":"on questions of care. Tell us a"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":155.38,"endTime":156.25,"body":"bit about that."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":156.85,"endTime":160.81,"body":"Well, interestingly,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":156.85,"endTime":160.81,"body":"it didn't begin to be about"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":160.81,"endTime":164.86,"body":"care. It was about wider working"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":160.81,"endTime":164.86,"body":"class women get working class"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":164.86,"endTime":168.01,"body":"jobs, which was kind of in"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":164.86,"endTime":168.01,"body":"parallel to Paul Willis's study"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":168.04,"endTime":171.76,"body":"of why did working class boys"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":168.04,"endTime":171.76,"body":"get working class jobs. And so,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":172.36,"endTime":175.57,"body":"his was very much a study of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":172.36,"endTime":175.57,"body":"masculinity. And I wanted to see"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":175.57,"endTime":180.82,"body":"how it all played out in terms"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":175.57,"endTime":180.82,"body":"of class and gender. And so, I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":180.82,"endTime":185.77,"body":"started studying with,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":180.82,"endTime":185.77,"body":"researching with a group of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":185.77,"endTime":188.53,"body":"women who were doing care and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":185.77,"endTime":188.53,"body":"health courses in a further"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":188.53,"endTime":192.25,"body":"education college. And I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":188.53,"endTime":192.25,"body":"realised how significant care"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":192.25,"endTime":196.15,"body":"was as a form of value to them,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":192.25,"endTime":196.15,"body":"as something that actually"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":196.15,"endTime":200.62,"body":"really mattered both morally and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":196.15,"endTime":200.62,"body":"also kind of economically; it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":200.62,"endTime":203.92,"body":"was where they would get jobs"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":200.62,"endTime":203.92,"body":"because they often didn't have"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":203.92,"endTime":206.62,"body":"qualifications. And it was one"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":203.92,"endTime":206.62,"body":"of the things they did that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":206.62,"endTime":209.41,"body":"actually made them feel good"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":206.62,"endTime":209.41,"body":"about themselves, good about"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":209.41,"endTime":212.32,"body":"other people. And it was one of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":209.41,"endTime":212.32,"body":"the things they could do very,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":212.32,"endTime":216.1,"body":"very well, because it's actually"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":212.32,"endTime":216.1,"body":"quite rare to find a working"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":216.1,"endTime":219.85,"body":"class woman who hasn't been"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":216.1,"endTime":219.85,"body":"educated to care for others, or"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":219.85,"endTime":223.78,"body":"their families and relatives and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":219.85,"endTime":223.78,"body":"whatever else. So, it was really"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":223.78,"endTime":228.55,"body":"about class to begin with. And"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":223.78,"endTime":228.55,"body":"then it turned into care,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":228.73,"endTime":232.15,"body":"because I realised how"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":228.73,"endTime":232.15,"body":"significant it was. And so, it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":232.15,"endTime":237.76,"body":"became a study of gendered"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":232.15,"endTime":237.76,"body":"subjectivity, as in: How do"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":237.76,"endTime":241.87,"body":"people become particular people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":237.76,"endTime":241.87,"body":"over a period of time? So, it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":241.87,"endTime":247.39,"body":"was ethnographic; it was a long"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":241.87,"endTime":247.39,"body":"study. And it studied how they"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":247.39,"endTime":252.52,"body":"came into formation as people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":247.39,"endTime":252.52,"body":"and people who were subject to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":252.52,"endTime":255.67,"body":"quite a lot of daily"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":252.52,"endTime":255.67,"body":"denigration, you know, they were"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":255.67,"endTime":258.52,"body":"being put down regularly by"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":255.67,"endTime":258.52,"body":"different authorities, by"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":258.52,"endTime":263.32,"body":"education systems. And so, it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":258.52,"endTime":263.32,"body":"was about how they became"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":263.32,"endTime":265.0,"body":"subjects of value."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":265.84,"endTime":269.32,"body":"Bev, that study"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":265.84,"endTime":269.32,"body":"came out in '97, but you've"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":269.32,"endTime":274.66,"body":"continued to care about care."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":269.32,"endTime":274.66,"body":"So, in 2017, you wrote a really"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":274.66,"endTime":277.3,"body":"moving piece about the lack of"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":274.66,"endTime":277.3,"body":"care that your parents"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":277.3,"endTime":281.5,"body":"experienced in later life. That"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":277.3,"endTime":281.5,"body":"piece is called \"A Crisis in"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":281.5,"endTime":284.89,"body":"What Everyone with"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":281.5,"endTime":284.89,"body":"Parents Is Likely to Face in the"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":284.89,"endTime":288.7,"body":"Future\", and you can find it on"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":284.89,"endTime":288.7,"body":"The Sociological Review website."},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":289.03,"endTime":292.69,"body":"As someone with fast ageing"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":289.03,"endTime":292.69,"body":"parents, for me it's a reminder"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":292.69,"endTime":296.83,"body":"that care affects us all"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":292.69,"endTime":296.83,"body":"throughout all life stages. So,"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":296.86,"endTime":299.92,"body":"there are times when we might be"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":296.86,"endTime":299.92,"body":"the carer; there are other times"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":299.92,"endTime":303.58,"body":"in our life when we will be"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":299.92,"endTime":303.58,"body":"cared for. And how complacent we"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":303.58,"endTime":309.19,"body":"are about how care functions in"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":303.58,"endTime":309.19,"body":"society probably depends on"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":309.19,"endTime":312.46,"body":"where we see ourselves when we"},{"speaker":"Humanity","startTime":309.19,"endTime":312.46,"body":"think about the word \"care\"."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":313.06,"endTime":315.64,"body":"That's such an"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":313.06,"endTime":315.64,"body":"important point, Rosemary,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":315.64,"endTime":321.04,"body":"because I think one thing that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":315.64,"endTime":321.04,"body":"never stops astonishing me is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":321.04,"endTime":328.12,"body":"how our society rewards the most"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":321.04,"endTime":328.12,"body":"care-less, those who can and do"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":328.15,"endTime":332.86,"body":"care less about other people."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":328.15,"endTime":332.86,"body":"So, I think that that piece in"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":332.86,"endTime":337.66,"body":"The Sociological Review really"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":332.86,"endTime":337.66,"body":"\"wrote me\" because I had been"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":337.66,"endTime":342.25,"body":"relatively complacent about the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":337.66,"endTime":342.25,"body":"amount of care that had been put"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":342.25,"endTime":345.46,"body":"into me – I just took it for"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":342.25,"endTime":345.46,"body":"granted – by my parents over the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":345.46,"endTime":349.18,"body":"years. And I think we do take"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":345.46,"endTime":349.18,"body":"our parents for granted. But I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":349.18,"endTime":352.27,"body":"also think we take everybody who"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":349.18,"endTime":352.27,"body":"puts care into us for granted –"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":352.27,"endTime":355.12,"body":"all of our friends. If you, if"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":352.27,"endTime":355.12,"body":"you just think about how many"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":355.12,"endTime":359.77,"body":"people have invested in you"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":355.12,"endTime":359.77,"body":"through their caring: just"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":359.77,"endTime":364.33,"body":"really nice things, like Alexis"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":359.77,"endTime":364.33,"body":"once sorting out all the heating"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":364.33,"endTime":367.21,"body":"system for the whole of the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":364.33,"endTime":367.21,"body":"Sociology Department at"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":367.21,"endTime":372.22,"body":"Goldsmiths, we were freezing."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":367.21,"endTime":372.22,"body":"That sort of act of kindness we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":372.22,"endTime":375.94,"body":"take for granted often and that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":372.22,"endTime":375.94,"body":"those things are really, really"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":375.94,"endTime":379.81,"body":"important. So, the piece for The"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":375.94,"endTime":379.81,"body":"Sociological Review was because"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":379.81,"endTime":385.45,"body":"I was confronted by the complete"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":379.81,"endTime":385.45,"body":"lack of care that was available"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":385.45,"endTime":391.0,"body":"for both my parents. The first"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":385.45,"endTime":391.0,"body":"example was my father, who was"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":391.0,"endTime":394.69,"body":"subjected to the privatisation"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":391.0,"endTime":394.69,"body":"of the NHS and was left to die"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":394.69,"endTime":397.63,"body":"in agony, because [of]"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":394.69,"endTime":397.63,"body":"privatised ambulances,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":397.63,"endTime":401.56,"body":"privatised services, shortage of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":397.63,"endTime":401.56,"body":"nurses, shortage of beds,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":401.62,"endTime":406.48,"body":"privatisation of beds even. And"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":401.62,"endTime":406.48,"body":"for me, as a sociologist, it was"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":406.48,"endTime":412.03,"body":"just shocking. I think until we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":406.48,"endTime":412.03,"body":"come to face it, we don't"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":412.03,"endTime":416.29,"body":"actually know in the UK how much"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":412.03,"endTime":416.29,"body":"has been privatised. For"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":416.29,"endTime":420.67,"body":"instance, there's seven areas in"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":416.29,"endTime":420.67,"body":"the UK that have absolutely no"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":420.67,"endTime":426.28,"body":"social care support for the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":420.67,"endTime":426.28,"body":"elderly. You can't get"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":426.31,"endTime":430.36,"body":"provision; you can't, it's not"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":426.31,"endTime":430.36,"body":"there. So, for my mother – she"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":430.36,"endTime":435.31,"body":"was disabled, she was blind, 90%"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":430.36,"endTime":435.31,"body":"blind – she couldn't get any"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":435.31,"endTime":439.09,"body":"support. And she go into"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":435.31,"endTime":439.09,"body":"hospital and they try and throw"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":439.09,"endTime":441.91,"body":"her out, because that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":439.09,"endTime":441.91,"body":"performance measures were based"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":441.91,"endTime":446.23,"body":"upon stopping people doing what"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":441.91,"endTime":446.23,"body":"they call \"bed blocking\". But if"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":446.23,"endTime":449.53,"body":"you're blind and you can't get"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":446.23,"endTime":449.53,"body":"the care you need, you fall over"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":449.53,"endTime":451.57,"body":"a lot, you break a lot of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":449.53,"endTime":451.57,"body":"things, you're in hospital"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":451.57,"endTime":454.63,"body":"constantly. And so, for me, it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":451.57,"endTime":454.63,"body":"became really, really"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":454.63,"endTime":460.24,"body":"sociological, as well as totally"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":454.63,"endTime":460.24,"body":"and absolutely heartbreaking. I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":460.24,"endTime":465.19,"body":"had to find services. Now I'm a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":460.24,"endTime":465.19,"body":"researcher – I will spend a lot"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":465.19,"endTime":468.43,"body":"of time working out who to speak"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":465.19,"endTime":468.43,"body":"to, how to speak to them, where"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":468.43,"endTime":471.91,"body":"provision is, what to do, what"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":468.43,"endTime":471.91,"body":"the structures are – and I just"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":471.91,"endTime":477.64,"body":"found this devastation of social"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":471.91,"endTime":477.64,"body":"care in a way I could not"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":477.64,"endTime":480.61,"body":"believe. So, I was both trying"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":477.64,"endTime":480.61,"body":"to deal with looking after my"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":480.61,"endTime":485.29,"body":"mum, with the help of I had to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":480.61,"endTime":485.29,"body":"find private caring agencies."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":485.29,"endTime":489.22,"body":"And that was horrific, because"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":485.29,"endTime":489.22,"body":"the way they treat their carers"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":489.25,"endTime":492.52,"body":"is extraordinary – the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":489.25,"endTime":492.52,"body":"surveillance, this object to the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":493.09,"endTime":496.15,"body":"lack of zero contracts and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":493.09,"endTime":496.15,"body":"things – oh, it's just"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":496.21,"endTime":500.62,"body":"unbelievable. I mean, it's a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":496.21,"endTime":500.62,"body":"whole story of gig employment."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":500.62,"endTime":503.5,"body":"And when people talk about \"gig"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":500.62,"endTime":503.5,"body":"employment\" they usually talk"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":503.5,"endTime":507.76,"body":"about Deliveroo, but actually,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":503.5,"endTime":507.76,"body":"for me, care is one of the most"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":508.51,"endTime":513.76,"body":"horrific forms of employment,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":508.51,"endTime":513.76,"body":"mainly for women, but also for"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":513.76,"endTime":518.2,"body":"migrant workers for men as well."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":513.76,"endTime":518.2,"body":"So, I was in this dilemma of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":518.2,"endTime":522.37,"body":"trying to find help for my mom –"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":518.2,"endTime":522.37,"body":"impossible to get, I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":522.37,"endTime":526.27,"body":"get any overnight, and you can't"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":522.37,"endTime":526.27,"body":"leave somebody who can't feed"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":526.27,"endTime":529.36,"body":"themselves, can't walk properly,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":526.27,"endTime":529.36,"body":"can't see; you have to look"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":529.36,"endTime":533.08,"body":"after them. So, I was kind of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":529.36,"endTime":533.08,"body":"confronted by that. But that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":533.35,"endTime":536.98,"body":"very personal confrontation was"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":533.35,"endTime":536.98,"body":"also a sociological"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":536.98,"endTime":540.4,"body":"Where are"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":536.98,"endTime":540.4,"body":"the services? What's happened to"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":540.4,"endTime":544.3,"body":"them? What's happened to"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":540.4,"endTime":544.3,"body":"unemployment? Why, why has the"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":544.3,"endTime":548.41,"body":"care home being completely"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":544.3,"endTime":548.41,"body":"financialized by a private"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":548.74,"endTime":553.66,"body":"equity hedge fund? You know,"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":548.74,"endTime":553.66,"body":"what is going on? So, in the"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":553.66,"endTime":558.13,"body":"midst of trying to keep my mum"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":553.66,"endTime":558.13,"body":"alive, which was ... it became"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":558.13,"endTime":564.37,"body":"impossible. I not only kind of"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":558.13,"endTime":564.37,"body":"found this whole new area of"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":565.12,"endTime":568.54,"body":"destruction, I'd say,"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":565.12,"endTime":568.54,"body":"destruction of people's lives,"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":568.87,"endTime":572.29,"body":"the workers' lives, the carers'"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":568.87,"endTime":572.29,"body":"lives, the elderly people who"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":572.29,"endTime":575.11,"body":"weren't getting care – at that"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":572.29,"endTime":575.11,"body":"point, it was estimated there"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":575.11,"endTime":581.23,"body":"was 40,000 people dying annually"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":575.11,"endTime":581.23,"body":"from lack of care. It was just"},{"speaker":"confrontation with","startTime":581.23,"endTime":581.8,"body":"terrific."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":582.76,"endTime":586.12,"body":"So, starting"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":582.76,"endTime":586.12,"body":"to look at care and understand"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":586.12,"endTime":590.38,"body":"care really opened up the window"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":586.12,"endTime":590.38,"body":"on, on how we was sometimes"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":590.38,"endTime":593.5,"body":"taking for granted all of the"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":590.38,"endTime":593.5,"body":"care that we've received, but"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":593.53,"endTime":596.98,"body":"also how deeply sociological"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":593.53,"endTime":596.98,"body":"those questions were: as a"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":596.98,"endTime":600.16,"body":"society, how we take care of"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":596.98,"endTime":600.16,"body":"each other and how we're all so"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":600.16,"endTime":603.46,"body":"dependent on each other, and"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":600.16,"endTime":603.46,"body":"some really broader questions"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":603.49,"endTime":608.2,"body":"around institutions, financial"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":603.49,"endTime":608.2,"body":"questions, and so forth. And you"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":608.2,"endTime":613.24,"body":"mentioned, like, your parents,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":608.2,"endTime":613.24,"body":"friends, and so on. Another"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":613.24,"endTime":616.96,"body":"fascinating thing about care is"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":613.24,"endTime":616.96,"body":"that it automatically makes us"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":616.96,"endTime":621.34,"body":"think about relationships, about"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":616.96,"endTime":621.34,"body":"the connections between us. And"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":621.37,"endTime":626.38,"body":"in that way, it's a pretty ripe"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":621.37,"endTime":626.38,"body":"territory for sociology, which"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":626.38,"endTime":629.35,"body":"automatically acknowledges"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":626.38,"endTime":629.35,"body":"society, acknowledges that we're"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":629.35,"endTime":631.21,"body":"all dependent on one another."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":631.69,"endTime":635.35,"body":"Absolutely, and The"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":631.69,"endTime":635.35,"body":"Care Manifesto that's just been"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":635.35,"endTime":639.46,"body":"published by The Care Collective"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":635.35,"endTime":639.46,"body":"is so good on this. It is about"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":639.46,"endTime":644.2,"body":"the politics of interdependence."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":639.46,"endTime":644.2,"body":"You know, we cannot live without"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":644.2,"endTime":647.8,"body":"other people. We need other"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":644.2,"endTime":647.8,"body":"people all the time. We are"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":647.8,"endTime":652.0,"body":"social beings. You know, look at"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":647.8,"endTime":652.0,"body":"the effect lockdowns had on"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":652.0,"endTime":656.44,"body":"people – devastating mental"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":652.0,"endTime":656.44,"body":"health impacts. We need other"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":656.44,"endTime":661.42,"body":"people and we also want to care"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":656.44,"endTime":661.42,"body":"for other people. So, not"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":661.45,"endTime":664.42,"body":"obviously in circumstances that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":661.45,"endTime":664.42,"body":"are really dramatic and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":664.42,"endTime":668.86,"body":"horrific, but we, most of the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":664.42,"endTime":668.86,"body":"time, we are actually caring for"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":668.86,"endTime":672.64,"body":"our friends, for people around"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":668.86,"endTime":672.64,"body":"us, for our students. We do a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":672.64,"endTime":676.45,"body":"huge amount of care that is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":672.64,"endTime":676.45,"body":"completely and totally"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":676.48,"endTime":681.88,"body":"unrecognised. And it is about"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":676.48,"endTime":681.88,"body":"all relationships are social –"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":681.94,"endTime":686.83,"body":"it's practically impossible to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":681.94,"endTime":686.83,"body":"be anti social, it's very, very"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":686.83,"endTime":687.4,"body":"difficult."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":688.0,"endTime":690.49,"body":"So, so far we've"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":688.0,"endTime":690.49,"body":"been speaking about care, and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":690.49,"endTime":693.85,"body":"this idea that cares implicitly"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":690.49,"endTime":693.85,"body":"about relationships in what"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":693.85,"endTime":697.03,"body":"sounds like quite an, in a way,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":693.85,"endTime":697.03,"body":"an individual sense, right? So,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":697.03,"endTime":700.12,"body":"the way that we might care for"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":697.03,"endTime":700.12,"body":"our parents, or we care for"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":700.12,"endTime":703.9,"body":"children, or we care for each"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":700.12,"endTime":703.9,"body":"other. But we could also think"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":703.9,"endTime":709.03,"body":"about care at a more systemic"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":703.9,"endTime":709.03,"body":"level. So, is paying our taxes"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":709.06,"endTime":713.38,"body":"care, or is reducing carbon"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":709.06,"endTime":713.38,"body":"emissions care for future"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":713.38,"endTime":717.4,"body":"generations? Can care be about"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":713.38,"endTime":717.4,"body":"policy and climate change and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":717.4,"endTime":718.78,"body":"foreign aid budgets?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":719.14,"endTime":722.74,"body":"Yep, care is about"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":719.14,"endTime":722.74,"body":"it. It is I would argue very,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":722.74,"endTime":726.64,"body":"very strongly, it's kind of the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":722.74,"endTime":726.64,"body":"infrastructure for everything."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":726.67,"endTime":729.73,"body":"You couldn't have capitalism"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":726.67,"endTime":729.73,"body":"without care. Because, who is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":729.73,"endTime":734.5,"body":"replenishing the worker, who is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":729.73,"endTime":734.5,"body":"reproducing the labour? So, you"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":734.5,"endTime":738.97,"body":"can't have our basic economic"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":734.5,"endTime":738.97,"body":"structure without the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":738.97,"endTime":742.72,"body":"infrastructure of all the care –"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":738.97,"endTime":742.72,"body":"what we call social"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":742.72,"endTime":749.83,"body":"reproduction, all the work that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":742.72,"endTime":749.83,"body":"goes into enabling the whole"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":749.83,"endTime":754.33,"body":"motor of society to operate. If"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":749.83,"endTime":754.33,"body":"we don't understand its"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":754.33,"endTime":758.32,"body":"fundamental relationship, I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":754.33,"endTime":758.32,"body":"think we lost, which is why kind"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":758.32,"endTime":763.24,"body":"of policies on alternative"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":758.32,"endTime":763.24,"body":"economics just make no sense if"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":763.24,"endTime":766.57,"body":"you don't include care. And"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":763.24,"endTime":766.57,"body":"what's really important,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":766.57,"endTime":770.38,"body":"Rosemary, that you point to, is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":766.57,"endTime":770.38,"body":"that care isn't just an industry"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":770.44,"endTime":775.27,"body":"of finance a form of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":770.44,"endTime":775.27,"body":"relationship. It's also about a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":775.27,"endTime":780.4,"body":"disposition towards others. It's"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":775.27,"endTime":780.4,"body":"about how we treat other people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":780.4,"endTime":784.27,"body":"and other things. So, how do we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":780.4,"endTime":784.27,"body":"treat the planet? You know, do"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":784.27,"endTime":787.39,"body":"we just, you know, let the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":784.27,"endTime":787.39,"body":"planet burn and let people die"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":787.39,"endTime":791.2,"body":"as a result? Or do we actually"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":787.39,"endTime":791.2,"body":"try and nurture it? Do we treat"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":791.2,"endTime":794.98,"body":"people as if they just are a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":791.2,"endTime":794.98,"body":"labour to be extracted? Or do we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":795.01,"endTime":799.09,"body":"enable them to flourish? You"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":795.01,"endTime":799.09,"body":"know, that is a way we operate"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":799.09,"endTime":801.7,"body":"in the world, and I think it's"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":799.09,"endTime":801.7,"body":"really important that we think"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":801.7,"endTime":806.14,"body":"about it structurally,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":801.7,"endTime":806.14,"body":"institutionally and as a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":806.14,"endTime":807.52,"body":"personal disposition."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":807.85,"endTime":809.92,"body":"Please,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":807.85,"endTime":809.92,"body":"define \"personal disposition\"."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":814.12,"endTime":817.24,"body":"\"Attitude towards"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":814.12,"endTime":817.24,"body":"others.\" So, it comes from a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":817.24,"endTime":821.89,"body":"sociologist, probably Pierre"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":817.24,"endTime":821.89,"body":"Bourdieu, who argues that we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":822.25,"endTime":826.93,"body":"embody very different attitudes"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":822.25,"endTime":826.93,"body":"towards different things through"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":826.93,"endTime":830.26,"body":"our socialisation, and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":826.93,"endTime":830.26,"body":"socialisation is a form of care."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":830.68,"endTime":836.47,"body":"So, it's about how we relate to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":830.68,"endTime":836.47,"body":"other people, but how we embody"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":836.47,"endTime":839.2,"body":"that relationship. So, some"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":836.47,"endTime":839.2,"body":"people are really, really kind."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":839.26,"endTime":842.56,"body":"Alexis, you're a very kind"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":839.26,"endTime":842.56,"body":"person, you will always help"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":842.56,"endTime":846.13,"body":"people, you'll always support"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":842.56,"endTime":846.13,"body":"people. And you'll always do it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":846.13,"endTime":849.85,"body":"in a very selfless way. That's"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":846.13,"endTime":849.85,"body":"very different to people who are"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":849.85,"endTime":854.56,"body":"completely selfish, don't care,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":849.85,"endTime":854.56,"body":"irresponsible, expect other"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":854.56,"endTime":856.24,"body":"people to do all their work for"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":854.56,"endTime":856.24,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":856.69,"endTime":859.42,"body":"So, we've been"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":856.69,"endTime":859.42,"body":"talking about care as a notion"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":859.42,"endTime":862.15,"body":"that's been a little bit"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":859.42,"endTime":862.15,"body":"sidelined, especially given how"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":862.15,"endTime":866.17,"body":"a mess of a concept it really"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":862.15,"endTime":866.17,"body":"seems to be. But let's move on"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":866.17,"endTime":868.24,"body":"now to talk about something"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":866.17,"endTime":868.24,"body":"that's really brought care into"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":868.24,"endTime":872.68,"body":"the spotlight, which is"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":868.24,"endTime":872.68,"body":"COVID-19. No doubt a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":872.68,"endTime":876.46,"body":"people are tired of talking"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":872.68,"endTime":876.46,"body":"about the pandemic, but I think"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":876.46,"endTime":879.67,"body":"we can find a new way of doing"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":876.46,"endTime":879.67,"body":"so. A way to say something"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":879.67,"endTime":884.47,"body":"different via this notion of"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":879.67,"endTime":884.47,"body":"care. Bev, what is the pandemic"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":884.47,"endTime":886.15,"body":"taught us about care so far?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":887.05,"endTime":889.66,"body":"Again, I think one"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":887.05,"endTime":889.66,"body":"of the key things is about the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":889.66,"endTime":896.02,"body":"sheer irresponsibility of people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":889.66,"endTime":896.02,"body":"who have power. They have"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":896.05,"endTime":900.22,"body":"attempted to transfer, in the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":896.05,"endTime":900.22,"body":"UK, responsibility to the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":900.22,"endTime":904.96,"body":"individual whilst taking very,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":900.22,"endTime":904.96,"body":"very little governmental"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":904.96,"endTime":908.65,"body":"responsibility for the pandemic."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":904.96,"endTime":908.65,"body":"I think it's been shocking. I,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":908.71,"endTime":911.5,"body":"I've been shocked. I wrote a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":908.71,"endTime":911.5,"body":"paper on it, I was so shocked."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":911.74,"endTime":915.82,"body":"Now, what I also think it's"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":911.74,"endTime":915.82,"body":"taught us is the kind of return"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":915.82,"endTime":921.01,"body":"to, I would say, three really"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":915.82,"endTime":921.01,"body":"significant legacies, historical"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":921.01,"endTime":925.93,"body":"legacies that shape the approach"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":921.01,"endTime":925.93,"body":"to COVID that we now see in"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":925.93,"endTime":930.28,"body":"England, and I'm saying England"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":925.93,"endTime":930.28,"body":"very specifically. So, if we go"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":930.28,"endTime":935.26,"body":"right back to history, and if we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":930.28,"endTime":935.26,"body":"look at very, very forms of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":935.32,"endTime":941.38,"body":"early necrospeculation – making"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":935.32,"endTime":941.38,"body":"money from death, basically – we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":941.38,"endTime":944.44,"body":"see how that was a form that was"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":941.38,"endTime":944.44,"body":"practised throughout slavery,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":944.71,"endTime":949.12,"body":"how it had to be controlled by"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":944.71,"endTime":949.12,"body":"governments. But what we see"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":949.12,"endTime":953.41,"body":"through this pandemic is how the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":949.12,"endTime":953.41,"body":"English government has actually"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":953.41,"endTime":957.16,"body":"made a huge amount of money from"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":953.41,"endTime":957.16,"body":"COVID. It's obviously using"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":957.16,"endTime":961.57,"body":"taxpayers money to fund lots of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":957.16,"endTime":961.57,"body":"things, but all those PPE"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":961.57,"endTime":965.41,"body":"contracts have been given out to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":961.57,"endTime":965.41,"body":"Tory funders. The levels of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":965.41,"endTime":969.13,"body":"corruption, the way they've"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":965.41,"endTime":969.13,"body":"line, their own pockets has been"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":969.13,"endTime":973.6,"body":"astonishing. That is the legacy"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":969.13,"endTime":973.6,"body":"of necrospeculation. The other"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":973.6,"endTime":977.5,"body":"one is the legacy of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":973.6,"endTime":977.5,"body":"thanatocracy, which is about the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":977.5,"endTime":981.58,"body":"use of labour without any"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":977.5,"endTime":981.58,"body":"protections, the idea that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":981.76,"endTime":985.93,"body":"anybody can be used and abused"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":981.76,"endTime":985.93,"body":"to do things. So, putting people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":985.93,"endTime":989.23,"body":"back to work in very unsafe"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":985.93,"endTime":989.23,"body":"conditions is a form of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":989.26,"endTime":993.19,"body":"thanatocracy. I mean, we're"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":989.26,"endTime":993.19,"body":"going to experience that very"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":993.19,"endTime":996.22,"body":"dangerous conditions for"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":993.19,"endTime":996.22,"body":"lecturers entering a lecture"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":996.22,"endTime":1000.99,"body":"theatre with 500 people and no"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":996.22,"endTime":1000.99,"body":"air, so, a variant factory"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1000.99,"endTime":1005.91,"body":"effectively. So, no protection"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1000.99,"endTime":1005.91,"body":"for labour has become really,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1005.94,"endTime":1009.33,"body":"really significant. Look at the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1005.94,"endTime":1009.33,"body":"bus workers, look at the people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1009.33,"endTime":1012.81,"body":"who've died, NHS staff care"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1009.33,"endTime":1012.81,"body":"workers. The protections weren't"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1012.81,"endTime":1015.36,"body":"in place for them at the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1012.81,"endTime":1015.36,"body":"beginning of the pandemic. And"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1015.36,"endTime":1018.24,"body":"then the third legacy that I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1015.36,"endTime":1018.24,"body":"think is really important is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1018.24,"endTime":1022.68,"body":"social reproduction, so, care"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1018.24,"endTime":1022.68,"body":"itself. Who's had to do all the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1022.68,"endTime":1026.34,"body":"work of care when the government"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1022.68,"endTime":1026.34,"body":"has literally passed over the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1026.34,"endTime":1029.13,"body":"responsibility? While the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1026.34,"endTime":1029.13,"body":"Women's Budget Group is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1029.13,"endTime":1033.36,"body":"brilliant on documenting who's"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1029.13,"endTime":1033.36,"body":"doing most of the work of care."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1033.54,"endTime":1036.12,"body":"So, they've been, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1033.54,"endTime":1036.12,"body":"women have been educating at"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1036.12,"endTime":1039.33,"body":"home whilst doing all the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1036.12,"endTime":1039.33,"body":"domestic work as well. Now,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1039.33,"endTime":1043.89,"body":"that's obviously race and class"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1039.33,"endTime":1043.89,"body":"cut through, all this, and we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1043.89,"endTime":1049.05,"body":"see how it kind of ... a lot of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1043.89,"endTime":1049.05,"body":"the work of care was done by a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1049.05,"endTime":1053.58,"body":"whole, what Sara Farris calls,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1049.05,"endTime":1053.58,"body":"\"migrant army of labourers\". But"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1053.58,"endTime":1057.75,"body":"what's significant, I think,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1053.58,"endTime":1057.75,"body":"that we can see through COVID is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1057.75,"endTime":1062.55,"body":"how those very, very old"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1057.75,"endTime":1062.55,"body":"historical legacies shape the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1062.55,"endTime":1068.37,"body":"present, and all the restraints"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1062.55,"endTime":1068.37,"body":"on government, on protection."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1068.55,"endTime":1073.05,"body":"And for me, it's become a battle"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1068.55,"endTime":1073.05,"body":"between protecting people and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1073.05,"endTime":1076.89,"body":"using and extracting value from"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1073.05,"endTime":1076.89,"body":"people. So, I think that's what"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1076.89,"endTime":1078.18,"body":"I've learned from COVID."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1078.21,"endTime":1080.19,"body":"Bev, can I just"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1078.21,"endTime":1080.19,"body":"quickly ask who are the Women's"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1080.19,"endTime":1080.82,"body":"Budget Group?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1082.14,"endTime":1086.07,"body":"There are a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1082.14,"endTime":1086.07,"body":"fantastic group in the UK who"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1086.1,"endTime":1091.47,"body":"are made up of lots of feminist"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1086.1,"endTime":1091.47,"body":"economists, who regularly write"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1091.47,"endTime":1097.71,"body":"reports, check their website, on"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1091.47,"endTime":1097.71,"body":"the conditions of women; not"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1097.71,"endTime":1100.92,"body":"always just women, but of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1097.71,"endTime":1100.92,"body":"different forms of gendered"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1100.92,"endTime":1101.19,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1101.22,"endTime":1102.75,"body":"Oh, they sound,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1101.22,"endTime":1102.75,"body":"they sound very cool."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1102.78,"endTime":1105.63,"body":"They're absolutely"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1102.78,"endTime":1105.63,"body":"wonderful. They're an incredibly"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1105.63,"endTime":1107.34,"body":"important source of information."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1107.58,"endTime":1109.5,"body":"Bev, you've"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1107.58,"endTime":1109.5,"body":"been involved in something"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1109.5,"endTime":1112.74,"body":"called the Solidarity and Care"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1109.5,"endTime":1112.74,"body":"platform at The Sociological"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1112.74,"endTime":1116.64,"body":"Review, which you can find if"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1112.74,"endTime":1116.64,"body":"you head to our episode notes."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1117.09,"endTime":1120.6,"body":"Tell us briefly what that's"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1117.09,"endTime":1120.6,"body":"about and also why sociology"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1120.6,"endTime":1124.14,"body":"should even care about COVID?"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1120.6,"endTime":1124.14,"body":"Shouldn't we leave those"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1124.14,"endTime":1128.76,"body":"questions to medical doctors,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1124.14,"endTime":1128.76,"body":"\"proper\" scientists or even"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1128.91,"endTime":1130.17,"body":"bankers, maybe?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1131.7,"endTime":1134.25,"body":"That's a really"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1131.7,"endTime":1134.25,"body":"interesting thought, because I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1134.25,"endTime":1137.7,"body":"started ... I was in a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1134.25,"endTime":1137.7,"body":"conference on care recently, and"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1137.7,"endTime":1141.9,"body":"\"Why we now are"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1137.7,"endTime":1141.9,"body":"relying on medical journals"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1141.9,"endTime":1144.03,"body":"instead of lots of other"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1141.9,"endTime":1144.03,"body":"journals?\" So, we now all read"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1144.03,"endTime":1147.45,"body":"the BMJ, which is really hard –"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1144.03,"endTime":1147.45,"body":"British Medical Journal – and"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1147.45,"endTime":1151.26,"body":"the The Lancet and Nature. So,"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1147.45,"endTime":1151.26,"body":"we are, we are looking at lots"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1151.26,"endTime":1155.46,"body":"of scientific reports. I think"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1151.26,"endTime":1155.46,"body":"if we don't understand the"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1155.46,"endTime":1160.38,"body":"social relationships that"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1155.46,"endTime":1160.38,"body":"underpin the major crisis in the"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1160.38,"endTime":1166.23,"body":"world, we won't understand"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1160.38,"endTime":1166.23,"body":"anything. And I set up that"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1166.23,"endTime":1170.22,"body":"site, and Erica Lagalisse has"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1166.23,"endTime":1170.22,"body":"been the editor of it – she's"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1170.28,"endTime":1174.51,"body":"done a fantastic job. I set it"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1170.28,"endTime":1174.51,"body":"up because I thought we need to"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1174.54,"endTime":1179.16,"body":"have an archive of what happens"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1174.54,"endTime":1179.16,"body":"during this pandemic. Now,"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1179.19,"endTime":1182.01,"body":"sociology has been quite"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1179.19,"endTime":1182.01,"body":"sidelined in a lot of,"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1182.04,"endTime":1186.42,"body":"obviously, a lot of government"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1182.04,"endTime":1186.42,"body":"work; we've got quotes saying"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1186.42,"endTime":1190.41,"body":"how much Boris Johnson dislikes"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1186.42,"endTime":1190.41,"body":"sociologists, great. But what we"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1190.41,"endTime":1195.9,"body":"have with that is an archive of"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1190.41,"endTime":1195.9,"body":"people who are doing the work of"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1195.9,"endTime":1199.65,"body":"social reproduction, who are"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1195.9,"endTime":1199.65,"body":"caring. And what was absolutely"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1199.65,"endTime":1204.87,"body":"fantastic is that it's very"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1199.65,"endTime":1204.87,"body":"global. We extended into ..."},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1204.9,"endTime":1208.41,"body":"we've got lots of reports from"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1204.9,"endTime":1208.41,"body":"India, from Latin America, and"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1208.41,"endTime":1213.96,"body":"what you see ... And it's, it's"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1208.41,"endTime":1213.96,"body":"really kind of heartwarming,"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1213.96,"endTime":1216.39,"body":"because what you actually see –"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1213.96,"endTime":1216.39,"body":"and I don't want to romanticise"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1216.39,"endTime":1218.91,"body":"this, because this is about"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1216.39,"endTime":1218.91,"body":"transferring labour and"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1218.91,"endTime":1221.67,"body":"exploiting people and extracting"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1218.91,"endTime":1221.67,"body":"from them, giving them the"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1221.67,"endTime":1223.92,"body":"really hard work to do when the"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1221.67,"endTime":1223.92,"body":"government should be doing it –"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1224.85,"endTime":1228.12,"body":"but what we're seeing is that,"},{"speaker":"somebody said","startTime":1224.85,"endTime":1228.12,"body":"you know, people will support"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1228.12,"endTime":1232.47,"body":"huge numbers of kind"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1228.12,"endTime":1232.47,"body":"of mutual aid across the world,"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1232.47,"endTime":1236.52,"body":"lots of support, sex workers in"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1232.47,"endTime":1236.52,"body":"India have been exemplary in"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1236.52,"endTime":1239.79,"body":"protecting each other. And so we"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1236.52,"endTime":1239.79,"body":"come back to the word"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1239.79,"endTime":1242.34,"body":"\"protection\" again, and I, at"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1239.79,"endTime":1242.34,"body":"the beginning, I used"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1242.37,"endTime":1245.22,"body":"\"solidarity\" because I thought"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1242.37,"endTime":1245.22,"body":"that's the nice kind of more"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1245.22,"endTime":1248.46,"body":"political way of seeing things."},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1245.22,"endTime":1248.46,"body":"But I'm now, I'm now returning"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1248.46,"endTime":1250.92,"body":"to the word \"protection\","},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1248.46,"endTime":1250.92,"body":"because I think with something"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1250.92,"endTime":1255.3,"body":"like a pandemic, protecting"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1250.92,"endTime":1255.3,"body":"labour, protecting life,"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1255.51,"endTime":1258.39,"body":"protecting vulnerable people,"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1255.51,"endTime":1258.39,"body":"the elderly – who have just"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1258.39,"endTime":1260.97,"body":"been, you know, laid to waste"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1258.39,"endTime":1260.97,"body":"really in the pandemic –"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1261.03,"endTime":1264.18,"body":"protecting them has become"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1261.03,"endTime":1264.18,"body":"really important. So,"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1264.96,"endTime":1267.84,"body":"\"Solidarity, Protection and"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1264.96,"endTime":1267.84,"body":"Care\", it should be, but it's"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1267.84,"endTime":1273.99,"body":"just been a really good example"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1267.84,"endTime":1273.99,"body":"of what people can do, do do and"},{"speaker":"each other","startTime":1274.05,"endTime":1276.15,"body":"the politics of interdependence."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1276.42,"endTime":1278.91,"body":"I think it's,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1276.42,"endTime":1278.91,"body":"it's so interesting, because in"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1278.91,"endTime":1282.57,"body":"Australia, I feel like we've"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1278.91,"endTime":1282.57,"body":"seen two sides to the coin of"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1282.57,"endTime":1285.21,"body":"this idea of solidarity in"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1282.57,"endTime":1285.21,"body":"relation to COVID. At the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1285.21,"endTime":1290.82,"body":"beginning, in 2020, of the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1285.21,"endTime":1290.82,"body":"pandemic, all of these mutual"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1290.82,"endTime":1293.61,"body":"aid groups – you mentioned them,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1290.82,"endTime":1293.61,"body":"I know that so they're in the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1293.61,"endTime":1296.67,"body":"UK, they definitely sprung up in"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1293.61,"endTime":1296.67,"body":"Australia as well – and it was"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1296.67,"endTime":1300.15,"body":"this amazing sense that people"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1296.67,"endTime":1300.15,"body":"were caring for other people in"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1300.15,"endTime":1302.7,"body":"their communities that they"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1300.15,"endTime":1302.7,"body":"didn't really know. And were"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1302.7,"endTime":1306.6,"body":"able to meet with people. So, I"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1302.7,"endTime":1306.6,"body":"was doing some research with an"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1306.6,"endTime":1310.71,"body":"organisation and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1306.6,"endTime":1310.71,"body":"there were connecting people in"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1310.71,"endTime":1315.63,"body":"different suburbs across Sydney,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1310.71,"endTime":1315.63,"body":"who didn't have the opportunity"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1315.63,"endTime":1319.05,"body":"to meet before the pandemic, and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1315.63,"endTime":1319.05,"body":"we were all stuck at home. But"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1319.08,"endTime":1323.25,"body":"somehow, we were more connected"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1319.08,"endTime":1323.25,"body":"and caring more for people in"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1323.25,"endTime":1326.52,"body":"our local communities than we"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1323.25,"endTime":1326.52,"body":"had been previously. That"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1326.52,"endTime":1330.21,"body":"doesn't really seem to have"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1326.52,"endTime":1330.21,"body":"continued into 2021, which I"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1330.21,"endTime":1333.3,"body":"think is really interesting. And"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1330.21,"endTime":1333.3,"body":"actually, I feel like there's"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1333.3,"endTime":1336.51,"body":"almost a failure of solidarity"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1333.3,"endTime":1336.51,"body":"that's coming up, that's"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1336.51,"endTime":1341.64,"body":"starting to come up with"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1336.51,"endTime":1341.64,"body":"extended lockdowns or new"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1341.64,"endTime":1344.43,"body":"lockdowns in Australia, where"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1341.64,"endTime":1344.43,"body":"people aren't willing to make"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1344.43,"endTime":1347.64,"body":"sacrifices for other people"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1344.43,"endTime":1347.64,"body":"anymore, it seems."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1348.27,"endTime":1351.48,"body":"I think it's going"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1348.27,"endTime":1351.48,"body":"to be a \"watch this space\", I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1351.48,"endTime":1354.9,"body":"really do. Because I think at"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1351.48,"endTime":1354.9,"body":"different moments people can"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1354.93,"endTime":1359.34,"body":"give and want to give and want"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1354.93,"endTime":1359.34,"body":"to help and want to support, and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1359.34,"endTime":1363.66,"body":"food banks have been really"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1359.34,"endTime":1363.66,"body":"important things like the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1363.66,"endTime":1367.23,"body":"campaigns for feeding children,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1363.66,"endTime":1367.23,"body":"organised by footballers in"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1367.23,"endTime":1369.78,"body":"Britain – Marcus Rashford, what"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1367.23,"endTime":1369.78,"body":"a hero, he should be the prime"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1369.78,"endTime":1374.07,"body":"minister. And so, what we see is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1369.78,"endTime":1374.07,"body":"different moments, I think, of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1374.07,"endTime":1376.32,"body":"people coming together and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1374.07,"endTime":1376.32,"body":"coming together around different"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1376.32,"endTime":1380.01,"body":"issues as well. And that that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1376.32,"endTime":1380.01,"body":"might not sustain, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1380.01,"endTime":1382.8,"body":"think we should believe that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1380.01,"endTime":1382.8,"body":"they will sustain, because"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1382.8,"endTime":1387.99,"body":"people get exhausted. People get"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1382.8,"endTime":1387.99,"body":"absolutely, you know, used up by"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1387.99,"endTime":1391.68,"body":"doing all these things. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1387.99,"endTime":1391.68,"body":"if you look at the massive"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1391.68,"endTime":1394.05,"body":"increase in food banks in"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1391.68,"endTime":1394.05,"body":"Britain, it's totally"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1394.05,"endTime":1397.56,"body":"astonishing. So, lots of people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1394.05,"endTime":1397.56,"body":"are giving money to food bank,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1397.56,"endTime":1401.16,"body":"but not doing the work there."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1397.56,"endTime":1401.16,"body":"But they've expanded they've"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1401.16,"endTime":1404.22,"body":"become really significant. Now,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1401.16,"endTime":1404.22,"body":"again, this takes us back"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1404.22,"endTime":1407.1,"body":"historically, because it was"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1404.22,"endTime":1407.1,"body":"charities that actually stopped"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1407.1,"endTime":1410.52,"body":"people dying, often horrific"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1407.1,"endTime":1410.52,"body":"charities, but sometimes really,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1410.52,"endTime":1413.73,"body":"really good ones. So, again,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1410.52,"endTime":1413.73,"body":"it's about the protection of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1413.73,"endTime":1417.9,"body":"life when it's needed. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1413.73,"endTime":1417.9,"body":"not sure all those mutual aid"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1417.9,"endTime":1422.04,"body":"groups are needed all the time."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1417.9,"endTime":1422.04,"body":"But it's good to see people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1422.04,"endTime":1426.63,"body":"recognising their"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1422.04,"endTime":1426.63,"body":"interdependence, I think, and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1426.66,"endTime":1429.99,"body":"then where do we go with that? I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1426.66,"endTime":1429.99,"body":"think once people have"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1429.99,"endTime":1435.06,"body":"recognised it, that's a really"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1429.99,"endTime":1435.06,"body":"important move, but I'm not sure"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1435.06,"endTime":1438.72,"body":"where we take it after that. And"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1435.06,"endTime":1438.72,"body":"I don't want to romanticise, you"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1438.72,"endTime":1441.9,"body":"know, the idea of the community,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1438.72,"endTime":1441.9,"body":"because I'm not sure it works"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1441.9,"endTime":1442.59,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1443.04,"endTime":1445.62,"body":"I feel like we've"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1443.04,"endTime":1445.62,"body":"kind of hinted at this"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1445.62,"endTime":1449.55,"body":"throughout the conversation, but"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1445.62,"endTime":1449.55,"body":"COVID seems to remind us of the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1449.55,"endTime":1452.91,"body":"fallacy that we can ever really"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1449.55,"endTime":1452.91,"body":"be islands separate from each"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1452.91,"endTime":1456.66,"body":"other. And whether that's at the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1452.91,"endTime":1456.66,"body":"individual level, because even"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1456.66,"endTime":1459.72,"body":"when we're self isolating in our"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1456.66,"endTime":1459.72,"body":"homes, we still need other"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1459.72,"endTime":1462.36,"body":"people, including the key"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1459.72,"endTime":1462.36,"body":"workers or people doing our"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1462.36,"endTime":1466.86,"body":"deliveries, or at the level of"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1462.36,"endTime":1466.86,"body":"the state as well. And I reflect"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1466.86,"endTime":1470.85,"body":"on this coming ... based in"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1466.86,"endTime":1470.85,"body":"Australia, where we've had this"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1470.85,"endTime":1475.23,"body":"fortress mentality, which has"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1470.85,"endTime":1475.23,"body":"been successful in what some"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1475.23,"endTime":1477.12,"body":"respects, but it's just not"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1475.23,"endTime":1477.12,"body":"sustainable."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1477.36,"endTime":1480.45,"body":"Absolutely. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1477.36,"endTime":1480.45,"body":"there was a question about why"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1480.45,"endTime":1483.39,"body":"should we expect the state to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1480.45,"endTime":1483.39,"body":"look after us? Well, I think we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1483.39,"endTime":1488.25,"body":"should. That is its role, there"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1483.39,"endTime":1488.25,"body":"is a social contract, and so, we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1488.28,"endTime":1491.88,"body":"should afford some level of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1488.28,"endTime":1491.88,"body":"protection. But as you say,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1491.88,"endTime":1495.21,"body":"Rosemary, what's key is we've"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1491.88,"endTime":1495.21,"body":"seen how global it is. There's"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1495.21,"endTime":1498.84,"body":"no point in vaccinating their"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1495.21,"endTime":1498.84,"body":"rich northern nations when the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1498.84,"endTime":1500.85,"body":"rest of the world is actually"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1498.84,"endTime":1500.85,"body":"dying."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1500.88,"endTime":1501.3,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1501.57,"endTime":1504.03,"body":"The pandemic moves"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1501.57,"endTime":1504.03,"body":"around the world. It's like,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1504.15,"endTime":1507.93,"body":"it's a bit like climate change,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1504.15,"endTime":1507.93,"body":"you know, short term one policy"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1507.93,"endTime":1511.05,"body":"thinking is not going to get"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1507.93,"endTime":1511.05,"body":"anybody anywhere. You know, we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1511.05,"endTime":1515.19,"body":"really need to think globally."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1511.05,"endTime":1515.19,"body":"And if we look at things like"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1515.19,"endTime":1519.54,"body":"the care industry, it's global;"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1515.19,"endTime":1519.54,"body":"care workers, they're global;"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1520.26,"endTime":1524.61,"body":"the pandemic, it's global. And"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1520.26,"endTime":1524.61,"body":"we really, really need to see."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1524.88,"endTime":1527.07,"body":"We can see how things"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1524.88,"endTime":1527.07,"body":"contextualise but they are"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1527.07,"endTime":1527.76,"body":"really global."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1528.51,"endTime":1530.61,"body":"So, we've just"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1528.51,"endTime":1530.61,"body":"talked about some quite"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1530.61,"endTime":1534.09,"body":"difficult stuff. But the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1530.61,"endTime":1534.09,"body":"Solidarity and Care pages on The"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1534.09,"endTime":1538.38,"body":"Sociological Review site do so"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1534.09,"endTime":1538.38,"body":"of hope, as it says there,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1538.5,"endTime":1541.32,"body":"\"COVID has shown us that a"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1538.5,"endTime":1541.32,"body":"future centred on collective"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1541.32,"endTime":1545.64,"body":"care is possible\". It also says"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1541.32,"endTime":1545.64,"body":"that cruelty, greed and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1545.64,"endTime":1549.42,"body":"exploitation got us into this,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1545.64,"endTime":1549.42,"body":"but that it will be care that"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1549.42,"endTime":1552.87,"body":"gets us out. That's a nice idea"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1549.42,"endTime":1552.87,"body":"to hold on to, I think."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1553.08,"endTime":1557.52,"body":"You just have to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1553.08,"endTime":1557.52,"body":"keep hoping. You've got to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1557.52,"endTime":1561.75,"body":"believe that the world can be a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1557.52,"endTime":1561.75,"body":"better place, you've got to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1561.81,"endTime":1564.96,"body":"believe that it can be a place"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1561.81,"endTime":1564.96,"body":"where people can flourish, not"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1564.96,"endTime":1568.68,"body":"be used, abused, spat out and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1564.96,"endTime":1568.68,"body":"blamed for their own problems."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1568.92,"endTime":1574.26,"body":"So, I think it's important that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1568.92,"endTime":1574.26,"body":"we hang on to the idea. And I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1574.26,"endTime":1577.74,"body":"think you have to have hope, to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1574.26,"endTime":1577.74,"body":"believe that we can have a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1577.74,"endTime":1580.35,"body":"better world, and to have a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1577.74,"endTime":1580.35,"body":"better world we actually need to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1580.35,"endTime":1581.85,"body":"care for other people."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1583.95,"endTime":1585.9,"body":"In a moment,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1583.95,"endTime":1585.9,"body":"we'll be talking about a"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1585.9,"endTime":1588.3,"body":"buzzword that's become"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1585.9,"endTime":1588.3,"body":"especially popular in recent"},{"speaker":"year","startTime":1588.33,"endTime":1593.13,"body":"self-care. But first, a"},{"speaker":"year","startTime":1588.33,"endTime":1593.13,"body":"word from our producer, Alice."},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1595.08,"endTime":1597.51,"body":"Hi, that you're"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1595.08,"endTime":1597.51,"body":"listening to Uncommon Sense from"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1597.51,"endTime":1600.72,"body":"The Sociological Review, where"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1597.51,"endTime":1600.72,"body":"we take a sideways look at the"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1600.72,"endTime":1604.26,"body":"ideas that shape our worlds. And"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1600.72,"endTime":1604.26,"body":"we do it by grabbing concepts"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1604.26,"endTime":1608.19,"body":"that we think we know, things"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1604.26,"endTime":1608.19,"body":"like home or care, and shaking"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1608.19,"endTime":1610.92,"body":"and stretching them a bit with"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1608.19,"endTime":1610.92,"body":"guests who cast them in a whole"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1610.92,"endTime":1613.89,"body":"new light. We're about"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1610.92,"endTime":1613.89,"body":"challenging everyday assumptions"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1613.89,"endTime":1616.86,"body":"about how we live and"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1613.89,"endTime":1616.86,"body":"intervening in the crises that"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1616.86,"endTime":1619.98,"body":"shaped all of our lives today."},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1616.86,"endTime":1619.98,"body":"And if you like what you're"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1619.98,"endTime":1623.13,"body":"hearing, please do hit pause in"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1619.98,"endTime":1623.13,"body":"whatever app you're using and"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1623.13,"endTime":1626.58,"body":"tap subscribe. It takes just a"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1623.13,"endTime":1626.58,"body":"couple of seconds. And it really"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1626.58,"endTime":1629.97,"body":"helps us to bring this podcast"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1626.58,"endTime":1629.97,"body":"to you. And why not share this"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1629.97,"endTime":1633.09,"body":"episode with the questioning"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1629.97,"endTime":1633.09,"body":"critic in your life. Remember,"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1633.09,"endTime":1635.52,"body":"you don't have to be a"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1633.09,"endTime":1635.52,"body":"sociologist to think like one,"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1635.94,"endTime":1638.94,"body":"you will find recommended"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1635.94,"endTime":1638.94,"body":"reading and much more besides at"},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1639.0,"endTime":1641.82,"body":"thesociologicalreview.org."},{"speaker":"Alice Bloch","startTime":1639.0,"endTime":1641.82,"body":"Thanks for listening."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1643.98,"endTime":1646.32,"body":"Okay, so,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1643.98,"endTime":1646.32,"body":"when we set out to make Uncommon"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1646.32,"endTime":1649.95,"body":"Sense, one of the things we"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1646.32,"endTime":1649.95,"body":"wanted to do was get our teeth"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1649.95,"endTime":1653.37,"body":"into language to consider the"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1649.95,"endTime":1653.37,"body":"words and ideas that have become"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1653.37,"endTime":1656.61,"body":"so commonplace that we don't"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1653.37,"endTime":1656.61,"body":"really stop to think about them."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1657.57,"endTime":1661.08,"body":"And today, we want to ask you,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1657.57,"endTime":1661.08,"body":"Bev, about a buzzword that's"},{"speaker":"kind of stuck","startTime":1661.08,"endTime":1662.73,"body":"self-care."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1663.63,"endTime":1664.2,"body":"Ah."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1665.01,"endTime":1668.64,"body":"Yeah, right?"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1665.01,"endTime":1668.64,"body":"Like, when I think about self"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1668.64,"endTime":1673.5,"body":"care, it makes me think of this"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1668.64,"endTime":1673.5,"body":"night in the previous, in a"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1673.5,"endTime":1677.28,"body":"previous lockdown in 2020, where"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1673.5,"endTime":1677.28,"body":"my partner and I bought face"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1677.28,"endTime":1680.7,"body":"masks, and I drink some wine,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1677.28,"endTime":1680.7,"body":"and we sit on the couch. And it"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1680.7,"endTime":1683.7,"body":"was this kind of idea of taking"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1680.7,"endTime":1683.7,"body":"time out for ourselves and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1683.7,"endTime":1687.99,"body":"really cocooning ourselves and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1683.7,"endTime":1687.99,"body":"retreating, you know, and when I"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1687.99,"endTime":1692.34,"body":"did a search online self-care"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1687.99,"endTime":1692.34,"body":"seem to lead us to self-care"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1692.34,"endTime":1696.87,"body":"journals and spa treatments and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1692.34,"endTime":1696.87,"body":"really strange diets. And"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1696.87,"endTime":1699.96,"body":"there's this whole industry,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1696.87,"endTime":1699.96,"body":"which is apparently worth around"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1699.96,"endTime":1705.84,"body":"450 billion US dollars. And"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1699.96,"endTime":1705.84,"body":"according to Stylus Magazine,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1705.9,"endTime":1709.59,"body":"there are more than 50 million"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1705.9,"endTime":1709.59,"body":"Instagram posts out there tagged"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1709.59,"endTime":1713.19,"body":"with \"self-care\". But, Bev, what"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1709.59,"endTime":1713.19,"body":"does the word mean to you? And"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1713.19,"endTime":1716.55,"body":"is the word itself actually that"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1713.19,"endTime":1716.55,"body":"new? Or are we just talking"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1716.55,"endTime":1719.01,"body":"about something old in a"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":1716.55,"endTime":1719.01,"body":"different guise?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1719.58,"endTime":1721.86,"body":"We're talking about"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1719.58,"endTime":1721.86,"body":"something old that's been"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1721.86,"endTime":1727.02,"body":"really, really commoditised. And"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1721.86,"endTime":1727.02,"body":"absolutely, as you say, become a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1727.02,"endTime":1734.61,"body":"huge industry, and has also, by"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1727.02,"endTime":1734.61,"body":"becoming so commodified, has"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1734.61,"endTime":1739.65,"body":"eclipsed all sorts of different"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1734.61,"endTime":1739.65,"body":"forms of care. It's almost as if"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1739.65,"endTime":1744.24,"body":"it's eclipsed the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1739.65,"endTime":1744.24,"body":"interdependence of care that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1744.51,"endTime":1748.32,"body":"every form of care really relies"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1744.51,"endTime":1748.32,"body":"on. So, it's impossible just to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1748.32,"endTime":1753.3,"body":"be self-caring. But yes, the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1748.32,"endTime":1753.3,"body":"size of the industry should"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1753.3,"endTime":1757.89,"body":"alert us to the fact that this"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1753.3,"endTime":1757.89,"body":"is one great big con, but there"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1757.89,"endTime":1762.93,"body":"is a sociological history to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1757.89,"endTime":1762.93,"body":"this. And probably the most ..."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1762.93,"endTime":1766.62,"body":"like, the source of the word"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1762.93,"endTime":1766.62,"body":"itself would be Michel Foucault,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1766.62,"endTime":1773.34,"body":"French philosopher, who talks"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1766.62,"endTime":1773.34,"body":"about how power and control is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1774.18,"endTime":1777.9,"body":"not just directed through"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1774.18,"endTime":1777.9,"body":"repressive forms of the state"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1777.9,"endTime":1783.72,"body":"but become transferred to the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1777.9,"endTime":1783.72,"body":"individual. And we are expected"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1783.72,"endTime":1787.29,"body":"to produce ourselves, men"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1783.72,"endTime":1787.29,"body":"through self-mastery and women"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1787.32,"endTime":1790.77,"body":"through self-care. That's,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1787.32,"endTime":1790.77,"body":"that's actually making this"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1790.77,"endTime":1794.04,"body":"argument very vulgar, but it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1790.77,"endTime":1794.04,"body":"kind of works in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1794.04,"endTime":1800.61,"body":"industry itself. And how that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1794.04,"endTime":1800.61,"body":"becomes ... self-care often"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1800.61,"endTime":1803.94,"body":"becomes the responsibility of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1800.61,"endTime":1803.94,"body":"women. So, there's a fantastic"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1803.94,"endTime":1809.1,"body":"article by Eva Illouz, one of my"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1803.94,"endTime":1809.1,"body":"favourite sociologists, who"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1809.1,"endTime":1816.12,"body":"looks at how self-care becomes a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1809.1,"endTime":1816.12,"body":"way of understanding the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1816.15,"endTime":1822.45,"body":"individual as completely and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1816.15,"endTime":1822.45,"body":"totally atomized, as subject to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1822.45,"endTime":1825.54,"body":"what's called individualization."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1822.45,"endTime":1825.54,"body":"So, all the different policies"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1825.54,"endTime":1830.16,"body":"that say \"you are an individual,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1825.54,"endTime":1830.16,"body":"you are not social\", which is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1830.16,"endTime":1834.51,"body":"ridiculous, because you can't"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1830.16,"endTime":1834.51,"body":"just be an individual. But if"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1834.51,"endTime":1837.93,"body":"you think about yourself as an"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1834.51,"endTime":1837.93,"body":"individual, you become far less"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1837.93,"endTime":1841.77,"body":"political, you become far less"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1837.93,"endTime":1841.77,"body":"connected, and you think about"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1841.77,"endTime":1843.69,"body":"yourself, not other people."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1843.81,"endTime":1847.14,"body":"Why has"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":1843.81,"endTime":1847.14,"body":"self-care become so prominent?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1847.24,"endTime":1854.2,"body":"I think, what we see"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1847.24,"endTime":1854.2,"body":"over the last 30 years is many"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1854.2,"endTime":1858.13,"body":"different governments, the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1854.2,"endTime":1858.13,"body":"interests of capital, the media,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1858.49,"endTime":1864.49,"body":"all focusing on not thinking"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1858.49,"endTime":1864.49,"body":"socially. You know, Margaret"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1864.49,"endTime":1867.37,"body":"Thatcher's \"there's no such"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1864.49,"endTime":1867.37,"body":"thing as social class\", Tony"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1867.37,"endTime":1870.79,"body":"Blair using all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1867.37,"endTime":1870.79,"body":"euphemisms for the word \"social"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1870.79,"endTime":1874.57,"body":"class\". So, it's kind of a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1870.79,"endTime":1874.57,"body":"movement away to stop people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1874.57,"endTime":1878.23,"body":"thinking about the structures"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1874.57,"endTime":1878.23,"body":"they inhabit, the inequality"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1878.23,"endTime":1882.07,"body":"they inhabit, the exploitation"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1878.23,"endTime":1882.07,"body":"they're exposed to, but"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1882.07,"endTime":1886.9,"body":"everything becomes about the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1882.07,"endTime":1886.9,"body":"tiny individualised atom. So,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1886.9,"endTime":1890.32,"body":"everything that happens to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1886.9,"endTime":1890.32,"body":"people is meant to be their"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1890.35,"endTime":1896.17,"body":"responsibility, it is a transfer"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1890.35,"endTime":1896.17,"body":"of responsibility for the social"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1896.26,"endTime":1902.32,"body":"to the individual. Again, great"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1896.26,"endTime":1902.32,"body":"psychologist Valerie Walkerdine"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1902.32,"endTime":1906.91,"body":"has written about how we used to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1902.32,"endTime":1906.91,"body":"speak in the grammar of social"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1906.91,"endTime":1910.99,"body":"structure – we would talk about"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1906.91,"endTime":1910.99,"body":"economies, we talked about how"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1910.99,"endTime":1914.71,"body":"institutions work – and now we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1910.99,"endTime":1914.71,"body":"talk, our predominant language"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1914.71,"endTime":1919.66,"body":"is the language of psychology."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1914.71,"endTime":1919.66,"body":"So, we've had this move from how"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1919.66,"endTime":1923.44,"body":"we actually understand the world"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1919.66,"endTime":1923.44,"body":"that's great for politicians,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1923.44,"endTime":1926.41,"body":"that's great for people with"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1923.44,"endTime":1926.41,"body":"power, because it means they"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1926.41,"endTime":1929.59,"body":"don't have to take"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1926.41,"endTime":1929.59,"body":"responsibility. We saw this"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1929.59,"endTime":1933.58,"body":"playing out during the pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":1929.59,"endTime":1933.58,"body":"where responsibility is given to"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1933.58,"endTime":1936.16,"body":"\"it is your"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1933.58,"endTime":1936.16,"body":"responsibility to stop this"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1936.16,"endTime":1940.3,"body":"global pandemic.\" Really, how"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1936.16,"endTime":1940.3,"body":"would you do that? So, we see"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1940.3,"endTime":1944.47,"body":"that transfer all the time, and"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1940.3,"endTime":1944.47,"body":"we see it in language. And"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1944.47,"endTime":1948.52,"body":"people talk about themselves as"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1944.47,"endTime":1948.52,"body":"if they are atomized individuals"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1948.52,"endTime":1953.11,"body":"with a unique social makeup,"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1948.52,"endTime":1953.11,"body":"where in fact, so much pattern,"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1953.11,"endTime":1957.43,"body":"so much repetition, so many"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1953.11,"endTime":1957.43,"body":"social structures are part of"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1957.43,"endTime":1959.77,"body":"that. And you use the word"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1957.43,"endTime":1959.77,"body":"earlier, Alexis,"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1959.8,"endTime":1963.94,"body":"\"socialisation\", that whole"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1959.8,"endTime":1963.94,"body":"process of education is about"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1963.94,"endTime":1968.47,"body":"becoming socialised to fit into"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1963.94,"endTime":1968.47,"body":"a society not to be an atomized"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1968.47,"endTime":1972.22,"body":"individual. So, all these things"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1968.47,"endTime":1972.22,"body":"are working together, and"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1972.25,"endTime":1977.11,"body":"self-care is a phenomenal form"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1972.25,"endTime":1977.11,"body":"of profit. As you say, Rosemary,"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1977.11,"endTime":1981.13,"body":"you know, massive billions of"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1977.11,"endTime":1981.13,"body":"pounds globally is made from"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1981.22,"endTime":1983.89,"body":"people trying to find out why"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1981.22,"endTime":1983.89,"body":"they've got so many problems,"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1983.89,"endTime":1986.56,"body":"when in fact, if they read a"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1983.89,"endTime":1986.56,"body":"sociological textbook, it'll"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1986.56,"endTime":1992.26,"body":"probably explain it. But there"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1986.56,"endTime":1992.26,"body":"is, there is some great feminist"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1992.26,"endTime":1995.98,"body":"work on marriage guidance –"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1992.26,"endTime":1995.98,"body":"that's a really interesting one."},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1995.98,"endTime":1999.16,"body":"How instead of thinking about,"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1995.98,"endTime":1999.16,"body":"you know, what are the social"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1999.16,"endTime":2002.13,"body":"conditions that people exist in?"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":1999.16,"endTime":2002.13,"body":"Why do we have so much domestic"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2002.13,"endTime":2006.36,"body":"violence? And femicide? Why, why"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2002.13,"endTime":2006.36,"body":"are we looking at this as a"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2006.36,"endTime":2009.27,"body":"psychological problem? You know,"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2006.36,"endTime":2009.27,"body":"it's a problem of gender"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2009.27,"endTime":2014.04,"body":"structure, power and"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2009.27,"endTime":2014.04,"body":"responsibility. So, I think it's"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2014.07,"endTime":2018.06,"body":"in the interests of power to"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2014.07,"endTime":2018.06,"body":"make us think of ourselves as"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2018.27,"endTime":2021.6,"body":"completely atomized and it stops"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2018.27,"endTime":2021.6,"body":"us connecting to people, and we"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2021.6,"endTime":2024.9,"body":"spend all our money, you know,"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2021.6,"endTime":2024.9,"body":"trying to please ourselves"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2024.9,"endTime":2027.48,"body":"instead of thinking about other"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2024.9,"endTime":2027.48,"body":"people. So, I think it's really"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2027.48,"endTime":2033.78,"body":"problematic. But Audrey Lorde,"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2027.48,"endTime":2033.78,"body":"Audrey Lorde argues we can have"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2033.78,"endTime":2037.89,"body":"radical self-care. And that's"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2033.78,"endTime":2037.89,"body":"when you've been doing lots of"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2037.89,"endTime":2041.7,"body":"political organising against"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2037.89,"endTime":2041.7,"body":"horrific structural forms, like"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2041.7,"endTime":2045.45,"body":"institutional racism, that you"},{"speaker":"people","startTime":2041.7,"endTime":2045.45,"body":"need to look after yourself."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2045.84,"endTime":2048.93,"body":"It sounds like"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2045.84,"endTime":2048.93,"body":"heaps of the really mainstream"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2048.93,"endTime":2052.35,"body":"self-care stuff is very, I think"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2048.93,"endTime":2052.35,"body":"you used the word commoditised,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2052.35,"endTime":2055.89,"body":"Bev. So, this idea that"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2052.35,"endTime":2055.89,"body":"something you can buy, something"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2055.89,"endTime":2056.94,"body":"you can consume, right?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2056.94,"endTime":2057.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2057.0,"endTime":2059.64,"body":"So, popular"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2057.0,"endTime":2059.64,"body":"magazines, like Psychologies;"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2060.24,"endTime":2062.88,"body":"there are heaps of mindfulness"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2060.24,"endTime":2062.88,"body":"apps out there that you can sign"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2062.88,"endTime":2067.05,"body":"up to – I know, I've got one on"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2062.88,"endTime":2067.05,"body":"my iPhone – festivals dedicated"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2067.05,"endTime":2071.76,"body":"to well being, adult colouring"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2067.05,"endTime":2071.76,"body":"books. There's just, there's so"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2071.76,"endTime":2072.09,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2072.09,"endTime":2072.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2072.3,"endTime":2074.52,"body":"And it all seems"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2072.3,"endTime":2074.52,"body":"very harmless, I guess when we"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2074.52,"endTime":2077.34,"body":"talk about it. But it's"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2074.52,"endTime":2077.34,"body":"important to ask: what it's"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2077.34,"endTime":2079.62,"body":"replacing? And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2077.34,"endTime":2079.62,"body":"what you're getting at, right,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2079.62,"endTime":2081.57,"body":"like the gap that this is"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2079.62,"endTime":2081.57,"body":"filling."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2081.72,"endTime":2085.35,"body":"Yeah, because of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2081.72,"endTime":2085.35,"body":"course we all have problems. You"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2085.35,"endTime":2091.86,"body":"know, we all do suffer, we all"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2085.35,"endTime":2091.86,"body":"struggle. We all have issues,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2091.98,"endTime":2094.59,"body":"but we always turn, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2091.98,"endTime":2094.59,"body":"instead of turning to our"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2094.59,"endTime":2097.98,"body":"friends, we turn to a book that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2094.59,"endTime":2097.98,"body":"tells us that we're just not"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2097.98,"endTime":2100.98,"body":"behaving correctly. And we do"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2097.98,"endTime":2100.98,"body":"that for everything. We do that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2100.98,"endTime":2103.62,"body":"for our relationships, we do it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2100.98,"endTime":2103.62,"body":"for our families, we do it for"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2103.62,"endTime":2107.4,"body":"our work. And you know, the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2103.62,"endTime":2107.4,"body":"advice industry is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2107.4,"endTime":2111.57,"body":"extraordinary. And some of it is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2107.4,"endTime":2111.57,"body":"really horrific because what it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2111.57,"endTime":2115.38,"body":"does is say that a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2111.57,"endTime":2115.38,"body":"work that needs doing, the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2115.38,"endTime":2119.43,"body":"labour of self-care is actually"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2115.38,"endTime":2119.43,"body":"allocated to women,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2119.64,"endTime":2122.19,"body":"particularly. So, they've got to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2119.64,"endTime":2122.19,"body":"become kind of \"nice\" and"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2122.22,"endTime":2126.27,"body":"\"passive\", in order that they"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2122.22,"endTime":2126.27,"body":"can have a partner. You know, so"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2126.27,"endTime":2130.68,"body":"the gendering. And again, Lisa"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2126.27,"endTime":2130.68,"body":"Blackman looks at this, how the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2130.68,"endTime":2136.41,"body":"media discourse that genders"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2130.68,"endTime":2136.41,"body":"self-care is really, really key."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2136.5,"endTime":2140.13,"body":"But what it avoids is the power"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2136.5,"endTime":2140.13,"body":"relationships that make us feel"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2140.13,"endTime":2144.06,"body":"so horrific in the first place."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2140.13,"endTime":2144.06,"body":"You know, we've got to think:"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2144.06,"endTime":2147.99,"body":"why do we feel so bad? It's not"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2144.06,"endTime":2147.99,"body":"us. It's the conditions we live"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2147.99,"endTime":2150.66,"body":"in. We need a sociological"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2147.99,"endTime":2150.66,"body":"explanation."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2151.47,"endTime":2154.08,"body":"Going back"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2151.47,"endTime":2154.08,"body":"to the question of, like, mental"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2154.08,"endTime":2159.72,"body":"health, I guess here too, when"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2154.08,"endTime":2159.72,"body":"young adults, for example, are"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2159.72,"endTime":2162.12,"body":"experiencing mental health"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2159.72,"endTime":2162.12,"body":"related issues, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2162.12,"endTime":2165.18,"body":"this. It goes around like \"you"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2162.12,"endTime":2165.18,"body":"have to take care of yourself\","},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2165.3,"endTime":2167.85,"body":"kind of \"isolate and like do"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2165.3,"endTime":2167.85,"body":"things on your own\". The"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2167.85,"endTime":2172.44,"body":"responsibility is on you to"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2167.85,"endTime":2172.44,"body":"control kind of how you go about"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2172.44,"endTime":2177.09,"body":"your daily life, and doesn't"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2172.44,"endTime":2177.09,"body":"really pan out into more"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2177.36,"endTime":2181.71,"body":"state-driven strategies for"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2177.36,"endTime":2181.71,"body":"social insertion. And it ties up"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2181.71,"endTime":2186.18,"body":"to other important themes or"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2181.71,"endTime":2186.18,"body":"concepts in sociology like that"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2186.18,"endTime":2190.95,"body":"of shame, stigmatisation. It"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2186.18,"endTime":2190.95,"body":"seems that today, we're expected"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2190.98,"endTime":2195.72,"body":"to demonstrate this self-care,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2190.98,"endTime":2195.72,"body":"that it makes us respectable. I"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2195.72,"endTime":2198.69,"body":"guess that's a notion you"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2195.72,"endTime":2198.69,"body":"explored in some of your early"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2198.69,"endTime":2199.5,"body":"work, I believe."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2200.04,"endTime":2204.33,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it's,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2200.04,"endTime":2204.33,"body":"again, you have to perform your"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2204.36,"endTime":2208.41,"body":"self-care. I think we've moved"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2204.36,"endTime":2208.41,"body":"into an era where performing"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2208.41,"endTime":2212.43,"body":"yourself as a responsible"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2208.41,"endTime":2212.43,"body":"individual has become so much"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2212.43,"endTime":2215.94,"body":"more significant. We saw that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2212.43,"endTime":2215.94,"body":"through the research we did on"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2215.94,"endTime":2219.78,"body":"reality TV, you know, the people"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2215.94,"endTime":2219.78,"body":"were punished for not performing"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2219.78,"endTime":2222.51,"body":"their self-care, but they have"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2219.78,"endTime":2222.51,"body":"to perform their moral value"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2222.51,"endTime":2226.2,"body":"across every domain. So, things"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2222.51,"endTime":2226.2,"body":"like respectability becomes"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2226.2,"endTime":2230.7,"body":"really significant. But mental"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2226.2,"endTime":2230.7,"body":"health kind of throws a spanner"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2230.7,"endTime":2234.09,"body":"into this because it's so"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2230.7,"endTime":2234.09,"body":"difficult, if you're a young"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2234.09,"endTime":2237.69,"body":"person at the moment in"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2234.09,"endTime":2237.69,"body":"lockdown, it's just really,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2237.69,"endTime":2241.23,"body":"really difficult. You know, how"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2237.69,"endTime":2241.23,"body":"do you connect to other people?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2241.23,"endTime":2243.78,"body":"You're at that moment in your"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2241.23,"endTime":2243.78,"body":"life where you really need to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2243.78,"endTime":2247.74,"body":"connect, and you aren't being"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2243.78,"endTime":2247.74,"body":"forcibly contained. So, it's not"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2247.74,"endTime":2252.66,"body":"surprising that things are, you"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2247.74,"endTime":2252.66,"body":"know, producing really difficult"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2252.66,"endTime":2256.14,"body":"mental health problems. Also,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2252.66,"endTime":2256.14,"body":"things like you ... everybody is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2256.17,"endTime":2261.12,"body":"so anxious. So, all these things"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2256.17,"endTime":2261.12,"body":"should not surprise us that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2261.12,"endTime":2266.16,"body":"people are feeling remarkably"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2261.12,"endTime":2266.16,"body":"anxious in very insecure"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2266.16,"endTime":2269.28,"body":"conditions. But our own"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2266.16,"endTime":2269.28,"body":"individual psychology is not"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2269.28,"endTime":2272.37,"body":"going to explain all of that, we"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2269.28,"endTime":2272.37,"body":"need a much bigger picture."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2272.58,"endTime":2275.07,"body":"Thanks for that,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2272.58,"endTime":2275.07,"body":"Bev. I should just quickly say"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2275.07,"endTime":2279.78,"body":"that we're recording this in mid"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2275.07,"endTime":2279.78,"body":"2021. And who knows where we're"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2279.78,"endTime":2282.51,"body":"going to be by the time this"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2279.78,"endTime":2282.51,"body":"goes to air. We're really hoping"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2282.54,"endTime":2286.05,"body":"that it's not going to be still"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2282.54,"endTime":2286.05,"body":"more lockdowns, but it's hard to"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2286.05,"endTime":2290.91,"body":"say. So, it's almost time for us"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2286.05,"endTime":2290.91,"body":"to go. We've talked today about"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2290.91,"endTime":2295.92,"body":"care as this huge concept that"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2290.91,"endTime":2295.92,"body":"is so much more than just the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2295.92,"endTime":2300.03,"body":"domestic realm or the care home"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2295.92,"endTime":2300.03,"body":"or the hospital. And, Bev, we"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2300.03,"endTime":2303.99,"body":"wondered what you would point us"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2300.03,"endTime":2303.99,"body":"to in terms of films or music,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2304.02,"endTime":2306.93,"body":"art, literature; something,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2304.02,"endTime":2306.93,"body":"something kind of a cultural"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2306.93,"endTime":2310.02,"body":"thing that says something"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2306.93,"endTime":2310.02,"body":"important about care?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2310.17,"endTime":2316.44,"body":"I was reminded of my"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2310.17,"endTime":2316.44,"body":"PhD student Diane Railton, who"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2316.44,"endTime":2323.46,"body":"did this fantastic PhD, on how"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2316.44,"endTime":2323.46,"body":"young women listen to music that"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2323.7,"endTime":2328.2,"body":"treats them with respect, loves"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2323.7,"endTime":2328.2,"body":"them and cares for them. So, one"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2328.2,"endTime":2333.18,"body":"of the examples of the period is"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2328.2,"endTime":2333.18,"body":"Take That, you know, \"I want you"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2333.18,"endTime":2336.24,"body":"back for good\", all this kind of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2333.18,"endTime":2336.24,"body":"stuff, and it really kind of"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2336.24,"endTime":2341.55,"body":"loves the women. It's very"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2336.24,"endTime":2341.55,"body":"heterosexual obviously. And she"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2341.55,"endTime":2345.66,"body":"looked at how, in order to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2341.55,"endTime":2345.66,"body":"become a mature modern woman, so"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2345.66,"endTime":2349.47,"body":"not to be thought of as a child"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2345.66,"endTime":2349.47,"body":"or adolescent anymore, you had"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2349.47,"endTime":2354.03,"body":"to learn music that treated"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2349.47,"endTime":2354.03,"body":"women really badly. So, Oasis."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2354.78,"endTime":2355.14,"body":"No way!"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2356.19,"endTime":2358.92,"body":"Yeah, really, really"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2356.19,"endTime":2358.92,"body":"horrible music that treated"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2358.92,"endTime":2363.33,"body":"women as objects. And for me, it"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2358.92,"endTime":2363.33,"body":"was one of the most stunning"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2363.33,"endTime":2366.87,"body":"PhDs because you think, yep, but"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2363.33,"endTime":2366.87,"body":"we all have to learn that we're"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2366.87,"endTime":2371.16,"body":"not adored, loved and honoured"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2366.87,"endTime":2371.16,"body":"and treated with respect. We"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2371.16,"endTime":2373.83,"body":"have to learn that we're just"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2371.16,"endTime":2373.83,"body":"objects. So, for me, that was a"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2373.83,"endTime":2378.06,"body":"key sociological understanding."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2373.83,"endTime":2378.06,"body":"But in terms of comfort, again,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2378.06,"endTime":2380.73,"body":"it's an old reference. I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2378.06,"endTime":2380.73,"body":"remember when I first watched"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2380.73,"endTime":2385.56,"body":"the TV series \"Tales of the"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2380.73,"endTime":2385.56,"body":"City\" (Armistead Maupin) about"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2385.56,"endTime":2389.52,"body":"queer communities in San"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2385.56,"endTime":2389.52,"body":"Francisco, I just wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2389.52,"endTime":2394.38,"body":"in that hilariously fun,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2389.52,"endTime":2394.38,"body":"interesting, challenging"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2394.41,"endTime":2398.43,"body":"community and it was another way"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2394.41,"endTime":2398.43,"body":"of living. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2398.43,"endTime":2401.22,"body":"really important. We need to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2398.43,"endTime":2401.22,"body":"think about other ways of doing"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2401.22,"endTime":2405.93,"body":"care that aren't restricted to"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2401.22,"endTime":2405.93,"body":"our traditional forms. So, I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2405.93,"endTime":2408.57,"body":"could think of \"high art\", but I"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2405.93,"endTime":2408.57,"body":"think I'll go with those two."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2408.81,"endTime":2412.14,"body":"Yeah. I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2408.81,"endTime":2412.14,"body":"Bev, we're just at the beginning"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2412.14,"endTime":2415.86,"body":"there, talking about how songs"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2412.14,"endTime":2415.86,"body":"shape our idea of what it means"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2415.86,"endTime":2419.91,"body":"to be a woman. And I want to"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2415.86,"endTime":2419.91,"body":"point to Adrienne Rich's work on"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2419.91,"endTime":2423.6,"body":"motherhood, as both experience"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2419.91,"endTime":2423.6,"body":"and institution. Although, I"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2423.6,"endTime":2428.7,"body":"have to say, I read these essays"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2423.6,"endTime":2428.7,"body":"of hers, just before I became a"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2428.7,"endTime":2431.1,"body":"mother for the first time"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2428.7,"endTime":2431.1,"body":"myself, which was only a couple"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2431.1,"endTime":2433.59,"body":"of months ago, so, I'm actually"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2431.1,"endTime":2433.59,"body":"going to have to stop there"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2433.59,"endTime":2437.25,"body":"because I'm struggling to"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2433.59,"endTime":2437.25,"body":"remember. What was in the essays"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2437.25,"endTime":2439.08,"body":"that speak to me, sleep"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2437.25,"endTime":2439.08,"body":"deprived?"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2440.7,"endTime":2441.9,"body":"That's great,"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2440.7,"endTime":2441.9,"body":"actually."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2443.88,"endTime":2445.08,"body":"What about you,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2443.88,"endTime":2445.08,"body":"Alexis?"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2445.11,"endTime":2446.67,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2445.11,"endTime":2446.67,"body":"initially, this is going to"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2446.67,"endTime":2450.69,"body":"sound very corny, but hear me"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2446.67,"endTime":2450.69,"body":"out. So, my suggestion would be"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2450.69,"endTime":2455.13,"body":"Robin Williams' \"What Dreams May"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2450.69,"endTime":2455.13,"body":"Come\", which is a story of a man"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2455.13,"endTime":2458.49,"body":"who dies and goes to heaven, but"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2455.13,"endTime":2458.49,"body":"his partner is in hell because"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2458.49,"endTime":2462.3,"body":"she took her own life. So, he"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2458.49,"endTime":2462.3,"body":"goes back to try and find her."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2462.54,"endTime":2465.42,"body":"And actually, I have a brother"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2462.54,"endTime":2465.42,"body":"that passed away when I was 18,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2465.69,"endTime":2470.79,"body":"in similar conditions, and that"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2465.69,"endTime":2470.79,"body":"movie really captured all of the"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2470.79,"endTime":2475.89,"body":"challenging emotional work"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2470.79,"endTime":2475.89,"body":"around care, I'd say. So, some"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2475.89,"endTime":2478.8,"body":"of the beautiful moments, but"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2475.89,"endTime":2478.8,"body":"definitely also that the turmoil"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2478.8,"endTime":2483.3,"body":"and the hardships that's"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2478.8,"endTime":2483.3,"body":"associated with that. But yes, I"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2483.3,"endTime":2484.32,"body":"definitely suggest that."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2484.72,"endTime":2487.3,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2484.72,"endTime":2487.3,"body":"Alexis, what you bring up here"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2487.3,"endTime":2491.86,"body":"is so great, because we can talk"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2487.3,"endTime":2491.86,"body":"really abstractly about care."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2492.13,"endTime":2495.55,"body":"But actually, it's something"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2492.13,"endTime":2495.55,"body":"that touches each of us in very"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2495.55,"endTime":2500.8,"body":"deeply personal ways. Well,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2495.55,"endTime":2500.8,"body":"that's it from us for today."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2500.83,"endTime":2503.83,"body":"And, Bev, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2500.83,"endTime":2503.83,"body":"your time and coming on the"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2503.83,"endTime":2506.26,"body":"show. We'll say goodbye to you"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2503.83,"endTime":2506.26,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2506.66,"endTime":2510.02,"body":"Thank you for all"},{"speaker":"Bev Skeggs","startTime":2506.66,"endTime":2510.02,"body":"your labour, care and attention."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2513.8,"endTime":2515.72,"body":"If you want to"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2513.8,"endTime":2515.72,"body":"see what everyone here at The"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2515.72,"endTime":2518.57,"body":"Sociological Review has"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2515.72,"endTime":2518.57,"body":"recommended on care, alongside"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2518.57,"endTime":2521.96,"body":"pieces on everything, from love"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2518.57,"endTime":2521.96,"body":"to medicine, to addiction and"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2521.96,"endTime":2525.29,"body":"recovery, you'll find it all in"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2521.96,"endTime":2525.29,"body":"our show notes and over at"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2525.38,"endTime":2529.31,"body":"thesociologicalreview.org."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2525.38,"endTime":2529.31,"body":"Alexis, what would you take away"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2529.31,"endTime":2533.63,"body":"from today? I know that for me,"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2529.31,"endTime":2533.63,"body":"I'm going to be thinking about"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2533.63,"endTime":2536.81,"body":"the fact that care isn't just"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2533.63,"endTime":2536.81,"body":"about small things that we do"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2536.81,"endTime":2541.34,"body":"for an individual, like making"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2536.81,"endTime":2541.34,"body":"my partner a cup of tea, but"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2541.37,"endTime":2544.94,"body":"it's paying my taxes or it's"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2541.37,"endTime":2544.94,"body":"taking climate action to care"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2544.94,"endTime":2546.74,"body":"for future generations."},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2546.9,"endTime":2549.03,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2546.9,"endTime":2549.03,"body":"definitely. Some of the points"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2549.03,"endTime":2552.78,"body":"that Bev talked about; how we"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2549.03,"endTime":2552.78,"body":"focus on the individual, but"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2552.78,"endTime":2555.69,"body":"it's really about the social,"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2552.78,"endTime":2555.69,"body":"like, that's what's most"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2555.69,"endTime":2559.86,"body":"important. Power, money like"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2555.69,"endTime":2559.86,"body":"these, these, these things that"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2559.86,"endTime":2563.1,"body":"we wouldn't really think are"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2559.86,"endTime":2563.1,"body":"connected with care. Another"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2563.1,"endTime":2566.7,"body":"thing with Bev, which she points"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2563.1,"endTime":2566.7,"body":"out, like, the hope, right, you"},{"speaker":"Alexis Hieu Truong","startTime":2566.7,"endTime":2567.96,"body":"always have to have hope."},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2568.41,"endTime":2570.42,"body":"Yeah, there's so"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2568.41,"endTime":2570.42,"body":"much more that we could talk"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2570.42,"endTime":2574.05,"body":"about. And if you've enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2570.42,"endTime":2574.05,"body":"listening, do subscribe and give"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2574.05,"endTime":2577.08,"body":"us a review in whatever app"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2574.05,"endTime":2577.08,"body":"you're using. It takes a few"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2577.08,"endTime":2580.68,"body":"seconds, but it helps us make"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2577.08,"endTime":2580.68,"body":"more episodes for you. We'll be"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2580.68,"endTime":2584.76,"body":"back soon with more Uncommon"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2580.68,"endTime":2584.76,"body":"Sense. Our producer was Alice"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2584.76,"endTime":2588.6,"body":"Bloch. Thanks for listening, or"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2584.76,"endTime":2588.6,"body":"should I say take care of"},{"speaker":"Rosie Hancock","startTime":2588.6,"endTime":2589.83,"body":"yourself! Bye."}]}