I AM ONE Podcast by Postpartum Support International

DR. NICOLE PENSAK, PhD, PMH-C - I AM ONE Clinical Psychologist and PMHD Expert Who Was Rattled By Early Motherhood

• Dr. Nicole Pensak, PhD, PMH-C • Season 3 • Episode 31

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Episode 31 - Dr. Nicole Pensak, PhD, PMH-C

On today’s episode, we’re sitting down with Perinatal Mental Health-Certified Clinical Psychologist Dr. Nicole Pensak! We’ll hear about her experience recognizing that she desperately needed to reach out for help after becoming a mom. Dr. Pensak is an incredible advocate, a dedicated researcher (anyone curious about neuroplasticity in the perinatal brain? Stay tuned - we’ll chat about it!), she’s also an intriguing TEDx presenter, AND an author of a brand new book! So, without any further ado, please enjoy this episode with our friend, Dr. Pensak. 

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Dani:

Welcome to the I Am One podcast, where we talk to perinatal mental health advocates, professionals, and educators supporting the mission of Postpartum Support International. We're not afraid to ask our guests about the hardest parts of pregnancy and postpartum because we know that PSI has tools and resources to help in every situation, and everyone should know about them.

Emily:

Whether you are among the 1 in 5 moms, 1 in 10 dads, one of many trans or non-binary parents, or you're one professional or advocate committed to helping folks in need, you are also one of us.

Dani:

I'm your host, Dani Giddens, and I am one in five. I didn't know what to call what I was experiencing after becoming a parent and felt too scared at the time to speak up.

Emily:

Not anymore. Now she won't stop talking about it. Hi, I'm your co-host, Emily Jankowski. I'm also one in five, and I want you to know that mental health complications are common but they aren't normal.

Dani:

There's something powerful in knowing I am one of many. Whether you're already connected to the perinatal mental health world, looking for new ways to support parents and families, or just want to hang out with us in your earbuds, we are so glad that you tuned in.

Emily:

Of course they want to hang out with us. We're lovely. Seriously though, the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed on this pod are the speaker's own. Tuning into this podcast is, spoiler alert, not a replacement for therapy, But PSI can help you find a therapist. We could also help you find a psychiatrist, a support group, or Waldo.

Dani:

Emily, Waldo? Come on! We don't know where Waldo is.

Emily:

Okay, fine. PSI help seekers can find peer support and resources in their area.

Dani:

At PSI, we want you to know you are not alone, you are not to blame, and with help, you will be well. On today's episode, we're sitting down with perinatal mental health certified clinical psychologist, Dr. Nicole Pensak. We'll hear about her experience recognizing that she desperately needed to reach out for help after becoming a mom. Dr. Pensak is an incredible advocate, a dedicated researcher. Anyone curious about neuroplasticity in the perinatal brain? Stay tuned. We'll chat about it. She's also an intriguing TEDx presenter and an author of a new book. So without any further ado, please enjoy this episode with our friend, Dr. Pensak. Dr. Nikki, welcome to the podcast studio. We are so excited to see you again, amped to jump into this conversation today and talk a little bit about your perinatal mental health experience and talk about some exciting things that you're up to today. So anyway, we're glad to see you. Thanks so much for being here.

Dr. Nikki:

Thank you, Danny and Emily, for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Emily:

Can you first tell us a little bit about yourself? Name, pronouns. Are you a parent? Do you like long walks on the beach?

Dr. Nikki:

Okay. All right. I can answer all of those questions. So I'm Dr. Nikki Pensak. I'm a clinical psychologist. I'm a mom of two little ones. Jordan, six. Max, four. I'm a wife. I'm a she, her. I love long walks on the beach. Anything with the beach.

Dani:

We're going to get along just fine.

Dr. Nikki:

My center, my grounding, it's always beach. Yeah.

Dani:

Can you tell us a little bit about how perinatal mental health disorders have touched your life personally?

Dr. Nikki:

Absolutely. So as I mentioned, I'm a clinical psychologist and I specialize in treating women with postpartum. This came about, my academic career started in caregiver research. And then I went through my own postpartum journey twice. So the first time it was mild, where I just really needed therapy. And then the second time it was full blown crisis. And it was right at the start of COVID. So it was coming at all angles. And I realized that one, nobody is immune, not even a clinical psychologist who's an expert in treating anxiety, depression. I was an expert in caregiver research and developed a stress management program for caregivers. And then when I became the ultimate caregiver, when I became a mom, I realized, oh my gosh, no one's immune. You know, I had postpartum and got through it, I think quicker, because of my expertise and because I sort of followed the plan and the steps that I would advise my patients. So that was the one good thing. But I realized, you know, we can't really control whether we get postpartum or not. But we can do a better job of preparing mothers for, you know, their risk factors, vulnerabilities, and also to have seamless treatment in place proactively in order to set them up for success postpartum. And so the second time with my son, I went from rock bottom to thriving in a matter of months. And with the perfect vision of hindsight, I was like, I can help other mothers do the same. But there are so many roadblocks working against us. Postpartum being one of them, birth traumas being another, COVID, global trauma was a huge roadblock. And mothers also don't know about maternal brain plasticity and how it's really a neurocognitive developmental phase where your brain, your body, your hormones, everything, your identity goes through this huge transformation. It's called matrescence. And I was like, why is nobody talking about this? And so I really jumped into that work, translated all of the evidence-based science I knew from working with caregivers and realized, you know, mothers are the ultimate caregiver and they need all of these resources and we can do a better job. So that was sort of where my passion came in.

Emily:

Can you speak a little bit more about neuroplasticity for people who like might not have ever heard about that?

Dr. Nikki:

Yeah, so there's some great research being done at Yale where they've actually labeled becoming a mother its own neurocognitive developmental phase called matrescence. And it's when-

Emily:

Like being a teenager, right? Like that's another developmental phase, right?

Dr. Nikki:

Exactly, and so menopause, right? So there are all these developmental phases that we go through. Becoming a mother is one of them where your hormones and brain changes are also happening rapidly, right? It starts in pregnancy and then also continues postpartum. And right now we have research, I mean, long-term, you know, up to two years, we really need more research. We're not saying that it stops at two years, but that's what we have in the studies to go by. So it's a really profound transformation. So I, you know, I get into more detail, you know, in my book Rattled, but I would say that your brain sort of, I like to say that it Marie Kondo's your mind to give mom-

Emily:

Yes, I love that.

Dr. Nikki:

Some parts get smaller, some parts get bigger. There's increased neural networks related to caregiving and tending to the baby. And then those less important neural networks that, you know, maybe you used before pregnancy, if they're not being used during early motherhood, then they kind of fall to the wayside and your brain gets rid of them. This is known as synaptic pruning. And so it's a really, you know, brain development process where it really focuses on priming your brain for motherhood. And so as I was looking into the research on maternal brain plasticity and understanding this monumental shift that occurs, I realized, well, all of these changes are really oriented to taking care of the baby. You know, how can we surf this wave of neuroplasticity and sort of combine mothers taking care of themselves along with this process. Because your brain is already primed for learning. It's primed for developing new neural networks. Let's just give moms the skills that they need and the education so that they can also develop for themselves and learn to take care of themselves better and get treatment so that this process goes really right. Because on the other side of it, I fully believe that maternal brains are brilliant, okay? But we just have so many roadblocks getting in our way. I want mothers to reach their full potential.

Dani:

Okay.

Emily:

Okay. Wait.

Dani:

You're blowing our minds here.

Emily:

I know. Okay. So what you're saying is like, if we're already in this position of being capable of like learning at a more rapid rate than we are, I don't know, pre getting pregnant. Right. And our brains are being rewired to like pay close attention to like the needs of the baby. Why can't we also pay close attention to our own needs?

Dr. Nikki:

Exactly. So your brain sort of being primed for this caregiver network to take care of the baby. So let's put in, while you're learning, right? While you're in the primed state of learning, just some more help for the mothers to tend to their own needs and take care of themselves. I always say that early motherhood is really this opportune time to go to therapy because your brain is changing so much. It's an opportune time to heal, right? Old wounds, new wounds, birth trauma, postpartum, right? And I think that the treatment can go that much further because your brain is so plastic in this period. And if you think about it, when you have a baby for the first time, it's all new learning, right? You're just learning on the job. It's on the job training, constant learning.

Emily:

Yeah, it is. What do you want?

Dr. Nikki:

Right? Yeah. So your brain is really fine tuning itself along the process. And so I'm like, okay, we need to take advantage of this and really prepare mothers better because it's a great opportunity. But with every opportunity, especially with brain changes and neuroplasticity comes risks. And that's where the vulnerabilities come in for postpartum and birth trauma and everything else that gets in the way.

Dani:

I was thinking about your postpartum experience, your second child's born. You, at that point, you know all about neuro brain plasticity in the postpartum period. How did you realize, I mean, was it obvious to you that you were experiencing some perinatal mental health complications? Were you thinking like, oh, I'm not feeling like myself?

Dr. Nikki:

Well, it's a good question because I think a lot of moms are suffering and they don't know it. And I'm not trying to put, I'm not trying to give mothers a list of symptoms where they can diagnose themselves. For me personally, I'm a clinical psychologist, but yeah, in my head, I was running down a list of symptoms because I do this every day. Like I know it like the back of my hand. And I remember I didn't sleep for five days. I could not turn my, yeah, it was torture.

Dani:

Wow. Okay. Wow.

Dr. Nikki:

The backstory is that my husband is a physician and he was on this global chat and COVID was brewing overseas. And so he would get updates. My son was in the NICU for five weeks. He was born in January and then discharged and he was in the NICU needing breathing support. So two weeks after discharge, we were on lockdown, but here I am. And also, you know, having a baby in the NICU is also a risk factor for postpartum, by the way.

Emily:

Yes. Yes, it is.

Dr. Nikki:

Coming out of that as these like, you know, COVID was all unknown, right? We didn't know what was happening, but I was hearing over, you know, my husband was saying we're just two weeks behind Italy and it was in Seattle. And I was like a deer in headlights following him around the house, waiting for the WhatsApp, you know, notifications. I was just terrified. I was like, how am I going to protect my family? And I was up for five, just mentally, I could not-

Dani:

High alert.

Dr. Nikki:

Preparing. What am I going to do if this happens? What if this happens? Who's gonna take care of the baby? How am I going to get care at the hospital? There's COVID. My husband's on the front lines. He may bring something home. It was terrifying. So anyway, I remember I was standing in my closet and I was reviewing the list of symptoms in my head. And I told the psychiatrist that I had on standby, even though I had never taken medication before or thought I would ever take medication, I followed my own postpartum planning advice and I had it set up just in case. Thank God, because it takes months to get in with a provider, a good provider.

Emily:

Yes, it does.

Dr. Nikki:

You have to figure out who you want to work with and you have to establish care. So in this way, my psychiatrist had a good baseline assessment of me. You know, we had rapport. I knew I could text. I texted her and I said, I'm fully committed to taking medication at this point. And so I was texting her from my closet in tears. And... just- right? I was like five days, no sleep. I have to get my mind right. I have to be here for my family and take care of the kids. And I felt like this is very much my brain doing this thing, but I don't want this. Like I want to show up for my family. I am a strong person and having postpartum doesn't mean you're not strong, but I could recognize that I needed help to sort of get there. And then I also had my therapist lined up who I was talking to along the way. And so she was a great support talking me through, you know, observing me and helping me monitor, okay, when is it heating up to the point where I'm going to actually need some extra support with medication, right?

Emily:

I think it's always good to just acknowledge that like your ability to seek help was different than someone else who like doesn't already have folks lined up, doesn't know that it's good to have folks lined up, but you got what you needed. And then at what point along the way did you hear about PSI or was PSI already on your radar because you had already been supporting folks during this period of time?

Dr. Nikki:

So at that point, PSI was not on my radar and I wish it was because I would have used it.

Emily:

Same.

Dani:

Same. Yeah.

Dr. Nikki:

I think with COVID, once I was on the other side, right? So I was feeling better in about nine days where I was like, okay, I'm sleeping. I'm feeling relief. I can feel myself getting back to myself. And then I think within months, I was really like on the other side, feeling my best. And I remember I was having conversations with my father along the way. And he's like, You have to, you know, put some resources out there. Here we all are on lockdown and I'm realizing mothers need help. And so then I started @DrNikkiPensak on Instagram. I started just forwarding any resource I could find that was virtual. And so PSI was coming up all the time. I was like, oh my gosh, I needed this here. And you have in a group for everything, which is just fantastic.

Emily:

We really do.

Dr. Nikki:

I know.

Emily:

And every once in a while, we'll get a message from someone who's like, you don't have a group for blank. And then like the folks who run groups are like,

Dani:

Okay.

Emily:

like, let's do it.

Dr. Nikki:

It's incredible. An amazing resource. So I was constantly just, you know, whenever you would pop up a new group about, you know, this, you know, minority group or whatever, I would just, I would be like blasting it. And my Instagram started with just reposting resources. Cause I was like, we need to get it out. You know, moms need help. It needs to be virtual at this point. Everyone's terrified. Nobody knows what's going to happen. And postpartum rates, well, we know now they increased dramatically during COVID. And yeah, the silver lining is that we have a lot more virtual resources at this point. We learned that we could do therapy, you know, telehealth and it could still be as effective. And PSI is a fantastic resource. And I just wish I knew about it prior. I thought I was like, you know, I had my therapist and my psychiatrist on hand. Right? But if I were to do the gold standard, like ideal postpartum plan, I would be like, okay, do the psychiatrist, therapist and have PSI groups set up and their resources as well. So you have that community, especially when, you know, for new moms, they can't go- it's so inconvenient to go in person. Right. So the virtual is fantastic.

Dani:

Well, I know that you know a little something about perinatal mental health certification because I saw some extra letters there by your name. So when did you find out about the certification and take that? And what was that like for you?

Dr. Nikki:

So I took the PSI course, I believe it was about six months ago. So it was a little late. I mean, I've been doing the perinatal stuff. I had written the book and I was like, you know, I want to just stay on top of this and make sure that I didn't miss any, you know, and I want the added reinforcements. And of course we do C's and whatnot. So I took the course, I took the exam. I was like, yeah, okay, this is, this is fantastic. And we need more clinicians to get certified because you really need to specialize in, you know, perinatal mental health to work with women postpartum. So you know what you're looking at. And I think a lot of clinicians can benefit from that if this is their clientele. And so it's a great resource.

Emily:

Okay. So I think we have a little bit of a sense of like how you're supporting other people in the perinatal period. But I think that you have written a book and it is coming out soon. So can you tell us about how that is going to tie into ways that you're supporting folks in the perinatal period?

Dr. Nikki:

Yes, absolutely. So as I mentioned, my academic research was in caregiver research, and I wanted to get the science out to mothers everywhere. So I really translated all of my knowledge thus far, and then my expertise working with patients, as well as my own personal journey. And what I wanted to do was write something that what that mothers would read, right? So they're not perusing PubMed, they're not reading, you know, articles or, you know, caregiver stress management, right? But so I wanted to do book that was part narrative, part prescriptive in an easily digestible way that was providing good science, right? To the masses. And so it's not an overwhelming book. It's really meant to like sit on your nightstand and be a companion. And it goes over what I think are, you know, the main components of what mothers should think about and prepare for in early motherhood. And so that's sort of my mission right now is to get the book out there because I think we're also in an age where there's information overload on social media. You know, everyone has a voice and there's so much information out there. How do you really discern what's good quality, what's not? And so I wanted to really parse it down to looking at the science and translating it in an engaging way. My goal is really to empower mothers. So it does talk a lot about postpartum and how to set yourself up with solid postpartum treatment planning and to sort of have that in place, right? That I feel is sort of a given and should be a part of standard of care. Unfortunately, the onus still falls on mothers to set up their own postpartum care. So I do advocate for that. But I also speak in a broader sense in terms of identity transition, maternal brain changes that are positive, why this is a boost and an opportunity that you can take advantage of. I talk about mom shame, mom guilt, mom rage, relationship changes, and so how to cope with all of that and set yourself up for success. It's also very validating. I'm speaking candidly about my experience, how challenging it is, how I am an expert, but I wasn't immune. It could happen to anyone. There's no– there's nothing wrong with that. You know, my brain liked to do this thing postpartum. That's what I like to say. Right? And so, you know, you can't really control that aspect, but you can, we have the power to respond in an effective way. And I think if you think about a lot of these concepts beforehand, and also during that phase of early motherhood, you can really make sense of what's going on.

Emily:

Well, I can't wait to read it. So.

Dr. Nikki:

Yeah, it comes out April 30th. So in time for Mother's Day, I'm very excited.

Emily:

Yes.

Dani:

Remind us the name of the book.

Dr. Nikki:

So it's called Rattled, How to Calm New Mom Anxiety with the Power of the Postpartum Brain. I mean, I just really, you know, when I reflect on this book, I think about what I wish I would have had from the get-go. And because postpartum really robs us of time, right? And so I don't want mothers to, you know, have any more time stolen from them. I think that while the early motherhood phase is incredibly challenging and relentless, I think there's this culture of martyrdom that mothers are supposed to suffer. And so mothers think, oh, this is just part of it. And they'll hear it from their doctors too that aren't trained from a perinatal lens. Oh, this is just, you know, what happens, right? But if you scratch the surface and if you have a diagnostic lens of specializing in postpartum, you're going to see mothers are really suffering more than they need to, and we can help them thrive. They can feel their best. They can enjoy more of this relentlessly challenging, exhausting phase, right?

Emily:

Yes. I was going to say if the birthing parent or like the primary caregiving parent is afraid to ask for help or afraid to ask for what they need because they're afraid of the judgment that will come with it. Like that, that to me is more than, oh, this is a hard period of time. That is like society is telling us things that are not true. And it sounds like this book is in line with trying to shift that narrative away from like, let's all just pretend that we're fine when nothing is fine. Very much, very much the meme of that, that little puppy holding a cup of coffee, sitting at the table with like the whole cartoon place burning down. We don't need to believe that that is okay anymore.

Dani:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Nikki:

No. And that's what, that's what this book is. It's like, no, it's not okay. And mothers are afraid. We know this, that mothers are afraid of reporting their symptoms because they're afraid that they're going to be viewed as unfit.

Emily:

Yep.

Dani:

It's me.

Dr. Nikki:

Yeah.

Dani:

That was definitely me for sure.

Dr. Nikki:

I mean, how can you not be afraid of that when, you know, the image of a mother and the perfectionism in our culture is just pervasive? And people are getting better as a whole. Like on what motherhood is really like, but it's still there. And so I'm just trying to chip away and advance the conversation, advocate for more, you know, solid research, but also empower mothers that it's okay. If you have postpartum, this is actually an opportunity to get really good mental health treatment that's going to serve your brain very well. And you can heal and get to maybe better than ever, likely better than ever with solid treatment.

Emily:

When I look at like, because we've got streaming television from forever ago, right? Like you could go back and watch old episodes of a sitcom from the 90s and you can compare the way that parenting was portrayed to the way that it's being portrayed in video storytelling, movies and TV now. I think there is a shift, but it's like, can we get a little more? Can we get more real and less like sunshine and rainbows, please? Like, we need that.

Dr. Nikki:

Well, exactly. A hundred percent. And, you know, even with this book Rattled, I was thinking this would just make a great, you know, documentary in terms of providing the realistic picture of what you can go through, but also the benefits. And how I believe mothers are an asset to not only, you know, their babies and their families, but to the workforce and to society. And they're so undervalued. They're underpaid. We're not supported. We don't have any, you know, there's a huge health disparity in research where men's research studies are overfunded. Women's research studies are underfunded.

Emily:

Right.

Dani:

Boo.

Emily:

We already live longer. Invest in us. It's come on. Maybe, maybe that's why, we live longer. They realize that if they invest in keeping us alive longer– it's all a scam. I'm kidding.

Dr. Nikki:

I can get down with the conspiracy around that stuff. I mean, certainly. No, honestly, I think that mothers should be paid bonuses when they give birth, right? And are going on maternity leave. I think that they should be incentivized because it provides less stress, right? They have more access to resources and we just help that process go right. And if their brain is functioning really well and they're functioning really well, they're going to be able to be an asset back to your company and to their teams, right? And you can benefit.

Emily:

Absolutely.

Dr. Nikki:

I actually think that we should bonus them. Yeah.

Emily:

I'm into it.

Dani:

You heard it here first. Boom. I think it's great.

Emily:

I haven't seen my bonuses yet. Have you guys?

Dani:

Dang it. No.

Dr. Nikki:

Not.

Dani:

I'm missing three bonuses. They're floating out there somewhere.

Dr. Nikki:

Well, I think at the very least, there's a lot of, you know, groups out there that are advocating for, you know, paid maternity leave and caregiving.

Dani:

Oh yeah.

Dr. Nikki:

So it's fantastic and I do think that the conversation is moving forward and there are steps being taken, but it's just, you know, going to take some time.

Emily:

Absolutely.

Dani:

Thanks for telling us all about your book and where can people find you?

Emily:

Oh yeah.

Dr. Nikki:

On Instagram.

Dani:

Okay.

Dr. Nikki:

@DrNikkiPensak.

Dani:

Oh, well, easy, easy.

Dr. Nikki:

It's probably easiest to find me on Instagram, but you can always email me through my website and whatnot.

Dani:

Emily looks excited. Dr. Nikki, are you excited for the lightning round?

Dr. Nikki:

I think I'll be able to keep up.

Dani:

Okay. All right. First question. What is your favorite podcast that you'd like to recommend to folks? Besides this one, obviously.

Emily:

Obviously, this is your favorite podcast.

Dani:

Duh. Duh.

Dr. Nikki:

SmartLess?

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Yes.

Dr. Nikki:

I'm a smart list fan.

Emily:

I love them. Like, I think any good podcast is going to have good banter and their banter is on point.

Dr. Nikki:

It is.

Dani:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Nikki:

It is. Yes.

Emily:

Okay. Are you binge watching or listening to anything really good that we need to put into our queue?

Dr. Nikki:

Are we talking about guilty pleasures or something like?

Dani:

Oh, we are talking about whatever you want to talk about.

Dr. Nikki:

Okay.

Dani:

Yeah.

Dr. Nikki:

Well, I'll do both so–

Dani:

okay yes

Dr. Nikki:

I did binge watch One Day on Netflix did you guys–

Emily:

I've heard about it but I haven't...

Dr. Nikki:

It's about a relationship between this young man and young woman and how it evolves over time i don't want to give too much away but it was... it was very good I really enjoyed it. You know, as sort of a guilty pleasure.

Dani:

Okay.

Dr. Nikki:

I'm reading a new book that was just put out called Stand By Me. And it was by Dr. Allison Applebaum. And she's a researcher at Memorial Sloan Kettering. And she sort of did a similar style of book where it was part narrative, part prescriptive, applying all of her expertise in caregiving to help caregivers of patients, of loved ones with medical problems. And so that's sort of my personal development. I mean, we're all going to be caregivers at some point if we haven't already. And we are part of this sandwich generation where we're taking care of our kids and then we're potentially taking care of, you know, our parents. And so I think it's just a phenomenal resource that I'm reading right now. But, you know, I like to watch my Bravo shows. I mean, you know.

Dani:

Oh, yeah.

Dr. Nikki:

I like to do a mix.

Dani:

Okay.

Dr. Nikki:

High and low.

Emily:

Yes.

Dani:

What is your best parenting hack?

Dr. Nikki:

I think when I'm in it and I'm like in the thick of it and I need something, you know, to really get me through in the moment, I focus on just really slowing down. And like simplifying, like, I will literally slow my body down and sit down with the kids and just try to, you know, be in the present and follow them like through spontaneous play. Or if they're having a tantrum, I'm just focusing on my breathing and just being with them. And just slowing down, like, all right, I don't have to get that to do list done. I'm just like going to focus on this moment right now and being present. And I feel like that gives me access to like all of the resources I need to get through the moment. And it also– not only those challenging moments, but in play and laughter and, you know, really being improvisational with them. It's just I think those are my favorite moments in life. And so I try to soak them up and make them bigger. And I talk about this in the book as well, about how to do that, because it really creates this bank of resiliency and gets you through those tough moments. But it's also what I find the most rewarding and, you know, just gratifying in early parenthood is like having fun with my kids, you know, whatever that looks like.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

I love that. So what is one thing that today you, if you could transport yourself back in time and whisper something in your ear, maybe when you were in the closet or like the week before that moment happened where you were like, this is the watershed and I need help. Like, what could you have told yourself to help get you better, faster, to help yourself know that you were going to be okay?

Dr. Nikki:

Yeah, I think, you know, prior to my first pregnancy, I would have gone back to then. And I would have read Rattled. And I would have started medication much earlier. And while I was in therapy and in treatment for postpartum, you know, OCD my first time, because I had this, like, I was never going to take medication for myself. I had my own stigma around it, even though I'm a provider, I know, right? But I'm being transparent about it. I mean, that would have given me, I think, more in the tank, even the first time, you know, I wasn't, I didn't have like a clinical level of postpartum OCD my first time, but I definitely suffered more than I needed to. And I feel like it robbed me of some of the moments that could have been easier and free from, you know, mental health symptoms. And I wish I would have known how much our brain changes in pregnancy and postpartum and how much our identity changes, ahead of time and how it's so profound and really giving myself more credit and taking it on as like, wow, this is a huge opportunity that really deserves a lot of thought and a lot of resources to sort of get through. You know, it's not just like, oh, you just, you know, you have a baby, you become a mother. Like, no, I think that's like, there wasn't much discussion ahead of time for me, at least. I just assumed that everything would happen naturally. Right? And then it's like, whoa, it's taking me months to relate. Like baby bonding also takes a long time. And for me personally, I went through that, but also this is what I talk about with my patients. It's very typical. And I just wish I would have been validated and known about all of these things that I write about in the book, ahead of time.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dr. Nikki:

It just would have given me more time and more freedom and being less critical of myself and, you know?

Dani:

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I wish you could have gone back and whispered that into my ear too. That'd be great.

Emily:

For real.

Dani:

Yeah. I'm curious, what is one way that you'll give yourself a little bit of radical love today? Ooh, I mean, anything can be radical.

Dr. Nikki:

God, I don't know if I, you know, maybe I need to put more time into thinking of radical ways. I can love myself. I feel like mine are sort of not radical.

Emily:

What is a not so radical way for you?

Dr. Nikki:

Oh, I don't know. You know, eating dessert.

Dani:

That sounds pretty radical to me.

Dr. Nikki:

Or watching one of my shows that's like not very productive, like I could be doing something else more productive, but it is very enjoyable or, you know, getting outside.

Emily:

I think those are both really good though because like there's a lot of I don't know health food diet culture etc. and there's also a lot of like hustle culture, if you're not doing something or what are you, are you even–

Dani:

Are you even living?

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

Are you even an amazing human?

Emily:

Why can't we just rest whether we've quote unquote earned it or not? Why can't we eat dessert whether we've quote unquote earned it or not? You know?

Dr. Nikki:

I mean, I've actually given that a ton of thought and work through that myself because, and I wrote about it in the book as well, because productivity just looks different in early motherhood and slowing down and refilling your cup and also just going easy on yourself, right? You're doing so much at any given moment. Your brain is working so hard, but it's different than the day-to-day productivity, like at work, right? You don't get to see your to-do list, the things getting crossed off and like accomplishments or whatnot. Early motherhood, you know, I really had to slow down and recognize, okay, well, what did I actually do today? Before eight o'clock this morning, I probably did 50 things, right? And that's tending to the kids, like their emotions, and then, you know, tending to their physical needs and getting them dressed and like, you know, all the planning and the forms and the homework and just so much. And so I've made it a point to really break that down to myself specifically, not that I have to earn rest, right? I mean, that's something, you know, we don't have to earn rest, but it is productive to rest. Right?

Emily:

Yes.

Dr. Nikki:

It just looks different.

Emily:

That is so true. That is so true. Okay. Um, my most important question is how do you take your water?

Dr. Nikki:

Bubbly.

Emily:

I'm still trying to unlock-

Dani:

Oh, bubbly. Another fan of bubbles. Yeah.

Dr. Nikki:

Yep. I'm a fan of bubbles. How do you guys take your water? Wait, am I allowed to ask questions?

Dani:

Oh!

Emily:

Whoa.

Dani:

Nobody's- Whoa. Hang on a second. I'm not prepared for this. I like bubbles too. I like it with ice. I like cold bubbly.

Dr. Nikki:

Yes.

Emily:

Yes.

Dr. Nikki:

Agreed.

Emily:

I like to, I like to pour it over ice because then the ice releases just a little bit of the fizz and it's a little easier to like, like if it's right out of the can or right out of the bottle. It's like, like it's all bubbles. There's not a lot of water happening.

Dani:

That's what my toddler, well, he's not a toddler anymore, but he's eight now. That's what he called spicy water.

Dr. Nikki:

Spicy.

Dani:

Yeah.

Dr. Nikki:

He's like, can you drink it down? And I'm like, yeah.

Dani:

Oh, so it's not so spicy anymore. That's nice of you. Very kind of you to do that. Awesome.

Emily:

My goodness.

Dani:

Well, I think we've done it. Emily, would you like to take us out?

Emily:

Dr. Nikki, this was a lovely conversation because I think your book is going to combine the lived experience and expertise of, especially neuroplasticity and the fact that our brains are like primed for change and that we're not maximizing the opportunity when we are presented with it because our society has taught us that we're just supposed to suffer and do the thing, instead of use this as an opportunity for growth. So thank you for sharing your personal story and your professional story with us on the pod today.

Dr. Nikki:

Thanks for having me. I had so much fun speaking with you.

Dani:

Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time and, well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.

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Dani Giddens (she/her)

Host
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Emily Jankowski (she/her)

Co-host