PATRICIA HOPPMANN - NICU, PPD, and One Mom's Unplanned Dream Come True

On today's episode, we're sitting down with Patricia Hoppmann — a Peer Support Program Assistant here at PSI and, as she puts it, the team's unofficial 'sweeper.' That’s a sports reference … sigh … nevermind. We’ll chat about how Patricia's journey into motherhood was unplanned. The road that followed included early labor, the NICU, breastfeeding challenges, PPD, and the very real fear of being honest about how she was feeling. What changed everything? Peer support — and finding the right therapist. This one is honest, heartfelt, and full of the kind of realness that makes you feel less alone. So, without further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our good friend, Patricia.

Mentioned on today's episode:

• PSI's Postpartum Planning Class
• PSI's Peer Support Groups
• Podcast: Good Hang
• Watching: 30 Rock; Parks and Recreation; Seinfeld; Schitt's Creek; Severance
• www.doesthedogdie.com
• Connect with Patricia: ppclass@postpartum.net

Interested in sharing your story?
Fill out our podcast interest form here!

Questions about the I AM ONE Podcast?
Email Dani Giddens - dani@postpartum.net

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Transcript

Birth Trauma, NICU & an Unplanned Beginning

Dani 0:00

Welcome to the I Am One Podcast. On today's episode, we're sitting down with Patricia Hoppmann, a peer support program assistant here at PSI, and as she puts it, the team's unofficial sweeper. That's a sports reference. Never mind. We'll chat about how Patricia's journey into motherhood was unplanned. The road that followed included early labor, the NICU, breastfeeding challenges, postpartum depression, and the very real fear of being honest about how she was feeling. What changed everything? Peer support and finding the right therapist. This one is honest, heartfelt, and full of the kind of realness that makes you feel less alone. So without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our good friend Patricia. Patricia, welcome to the podcast studio. We are so thrilled to be sitting down with you today. It is the highlight of our week. Ending the week on a great note, Friday afternoon podcast recording with the one, the only Patricia Hoppmann. Welcome to the studio.

Patricia 1:05

Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Dani 1:09

Yeah. We don't often get to mingle with Patricia because, you know, we all work at PSI, but you know, in different areas. And it's not like we walk by your office or cubicle or anything. So this is really special that we get to spend some time with you.

Patricia 1:25

It is really special.

Emily 1:26

I'm gonna ask a pre-interview question.

Dani 1:29

Oh, off script already.

Patricia 1:31

I'm here for it.

Emily 1:32

If PSI had an office, what would the inside of it look like? Like would we have cubicles or offices, or would it just be like fun couches and beanbag chairs everywhere? What would we do?

Patricia 1:43

I think it would be a hybrid. I think there would be available cubes for folks who like wanted to focus and buckle down, but then also a ping pong table and like a game area, and maybe even just like a room that was completely pillows and couches.

Dani 2:03

Yes.

Patricia 2:04

A little bit of both, I think.

Dani 2:06

Like, do you wanna people right now? Do you need an introvert time out? What do you need? We're here.

Patricia 2:12

Yeah.

Dani 2:12

Cool. I mean, you heard it here first, I mean...

Emily 2:15

There you go.

Dani 2:16

Yeah. That's probably what it's gonna look like whenever it comes to fruition. Yeah.

Emily 2:20

Big plans.

Who is Patricia? Peer Support, PSI & Postpartum Planning

Dani 2:21

With that, Patricia, could you give us a little bit of an introduction to who you are?

Patricia 2:28

Yes. I work as the Peer Support Group's program assistant. So I do some admin work kind of behind the scenes, helping to make sure that everything is scheduled appropriately for the support groups program, working with our online platform Sharewell. And I'm affectionately uh known as the sweeper of our team.

Dani 2:55

Oh!

Patricia 2:55

So this is a soccer metaphor.

Dani 2:58

Yeah.

Patricia 2:58

Yeah, if anybody is familiar with soccer, I kind of do a little bit of everything. I do a little bit of this, a little bit of that, whatever needs to be done, I can do it.

Dani 3:07

Wow. You know what? I think Patricia needs a shirt. The sweeper.

Patricia 3:13

A jersey?

Dani 3:14

Yes.

Patricia 3:14

Okay.

Emily 3:16

Yeah. Do you have like a number?

Patricia 3:17

I don't, but my daughter just joined the volleyball team at her school and she's number 11, so I'll just take 11, too.

Dani 3:26

Okay. Number 11, the sweeper. Write that down. Got it. Okay. I've taken a note, you know, for no reason at all.

Patricia 3:32

For no reason at all, says the team who will see each other at the next conference soon.

Dani 3:38

Yeah. That's awesome.

Emily 3:40

Additionally, can you tell us if you'd like to, are you a parent? Do you have children? Where do you live? What kind of pizza toppings do you like? I don't know.

Dani 3:49

What's your social security number? I have a pen.

Emily 3:52

No, let's not.

Dani 3:53

Oh, never mind.

Patricia 3:53

Sure, I'll just talk about myself for an hour. Well, that's what we're here for. Yeah, so I am in Raleigh, North Carolina. I've lived here pretty much my whole life. And I am mother to two. I have an 11-year-old daughter and a seven-year-old daughter. And I also work as a moderator for our postpartum planning class here at PSI, which is very exciting. We started this class roughly three years ago.

Emily 4:25

Yeah.

Patricia 4:26

And this is a preventative service. So this postpartum planning class is really focused on your mental health and emotional well-being after giving birth, or even just postpartum in general. So there's lots of information out there about do you have a birth plan? Check. Did you take the hospital tour? Check. Did you take a birthing class? Check. But what about my mental health?

Dani 4:53

Do you know what to do after those things?

Emily 4:56

Like what happens when they send you home?

Patricia 4:59

Yeah. Yeah. So this free online class just really focuses on not so much baby care, but again, like the mental health and emotional well-being in that time. So I'm really, really proud of that class. And I sure wish that I had taken something like that.

Dani 5:17

Yeah, I don't think that there was anything available like that. I mean, I took a childbirth prep class.

Patricia 5:22

Mm-hmm.

Emily 5:23

For a bunch of birth positions that like we never used.

Patricia 5:26

No.

Dani 5:26

Yeah. We're gonna practice breathing when you have no clue why. I mean, just...

Patricia 5:31

It's such a placebo effect, isn't it?

Dani 5:33

I just tried not to giggle through it. I felt like they're gonna kick me out of this class. Like I got the giggles. If I wasn't, you know, in the bathroom peeing every five minutes because, you know, I was very, very pregnant, then I was giggling through.

Patricia 5:48

Yeah, no, I completely get that. And we'll get into this more later, of course.

Dani 5:51

Yeah.

Patricia 5:51

With my first daughter, I didn't even get to take the class.

Dani 5:55

Oh.

Emily 5:55

That's what I was gonna say. I'm like, I feel like there's a story here.

Patricia 5:59

Yeah. I was signed up for the birthing class at the hospital, but then things happened early. So I didn't even get to take that birth class.

Early Labor at 34 Weeks & a Rapid, Traumatic Birth

Dani 6:07

Well, I think this is a perfect time. We are just very naturally going.

Emily 6:12

Tell us how perinatal mental health disorders impacted your life, huh?

Dani 6:17

Personally, professionally. Tell us more.

Patricia 6:21

Say more.

Dani 6:22

Let's get personal.

Patricia 6:23

Gosh, it's such a story. And I guess we should start at the beginning.

Dani 6:28

Let's do it.

Patricia 6:28

My husband, Scott, and I got pregnant, and this was an unplanned pregnancy.

Dani 6:34

I was just gonna ask if it was okay for me to ask.

Patricia 6:37

Yeah, no, absolutely. And we know now, right, that 50% of pregnancies in the United States are unplanned. I certainly wasn't in the minority there, but to be very clear, like we were not planning to get pregnant. We were, you know, at the risk of being TMI, like using contraception to not be pregnant. And those things are not 100% foolproof. So... is foolproof the right word? I don't think that's the right word.

Emily 7:04

Effective. Not 100% effective.

Patricia 7:07

Thank you. So yeah, it was definitely a surprise, even though, you know, I knew that I wanted to be a parent someday. So when that happened, we decided to continue to be pregnant. And I had a really easy pregnancy. I was healthy, everything was just kind of moving right along. And then very suddenly, I was 34 weeks and just chilling on the couch watching TV one day, and my water broke and it was off to the races.

Dani 7:42

Oh yeah, once that happens.

Emily 7:43

Did you know it was your water, or were you like, were you one of those, like, could this be pee? Like, I'm not sure.

Dani 7:50

Was it a pop or was it a trickle?

Patricia 7:53

No, it was a pop, like a lightning bolt pop. Very, very painful. And because like all this liquid was coming down. So I was like, oh, did my water just break? What?

Dani 8:06

Like, how did all that amniotic fluid just get on the couch? I'm very confused.

Patricia 8:11

It was unbelievable at the time.

Emily 8:12

And every time you moved after that, more kept coming out, right?

Patricia 8:16

That's right.

Emily 8:16

Not like it pops and then suddenly you're like back to being like composed again. No, you're just leaking like a sieve.

Patricia 8:24

It was a life-changing moment for sure.

Dani 8:27

Yes.

Patricia 8:28

And very confusing. And I was home alone at the time. So I was just like, what is going on?

Dani 8:34

Oh wow.

Patricia 8:35

So this was about 10:30 at night, and my husband at the time was working in restaurants. So he was at work. So I called my parents and said, you have to take me to the hospital.

Emily 8:47

Yeah.

Dani 8:48

Like, what you doing?

Patricia 8:49

Yeah.

Emily 8:50

Okay. How was that phone call? Like, were you scared to make it? Were they like, drop everything, let's go? Like, how did that go?

Patricia 8:57

Yeah. Well, I mean, I was terrified, panicking. And when I called them, they're very quick to action. And so they were like, all right, let's go. And there was no hesitation. There was no like questions. It was just like, all right, here we go.

Dani 9:12

And did they live nearby?

Patricia 9:13

About 20 minutes away.

Dani 9:14

Okay, not too far.

Emily 9:16

That's good.

Patricia 9:16

Yeah. Definitely driving like 190 miles down the highway to get me to the hospital.

Emily 9:23

Meepmeep, we have somewhere to be.

Patricia 9:25

Yes. Shout out to my dad, who's an excellent driver.

Dani 9:29

Hey, dad.

Patricia 9:30

So yeah, I was having contractions about two minutes apart in the backseat of their car. Everything happened very, very quickly. And so we get to the hospital and I'm in, you know, excruciating pain. I'm panicking. Contractions are coming. And I'm, you know, they wheel me into the ER. And yeah, it was, it's hard to go step by step of everything that happened because again, I was just in full panic mode. Like I understood I was about to have a baby, but also it was like, why?

Dani 10:04

Like, this is a month and a half early.

Patricia 10:06

This is a month and a half early. This is not okay.

Emily 10:09

When you look back, does it feel like you have snippets of memory? Like you're like, I can remember like a couple of minutes of this, and then I know that later, like we were upstairs in a room, or what, like looking back on it, what is it like?

Patricia 10:22

That's very accurate. I think that I do have these pinpoints of things that happened. For example, I remember, you know, being in pain and asking for medication, and the nurses were very kind. I felt like they weren't looking me in the eye. I felt like they knew that things were progressing so fast that I wasn't going to be able to have medication. But they weren't really telling that to me. They were just kind of oh, okay. Mm-hmm. And like leaving the room.

Dani 11:03

And like side-eyeing each other, like...

Patricia 11:05

Yes. I mean, and also like who knows, like what the actual reality of the situation was at the time. I can't time travel back there. Like, maybe there were conversations that I just don't remember.

Dani 11:16

Yeah.

Patricia 11:17

But that was my takeaway. That was my impression of like how I felt was that I was asking for medication and they were not telling me.

Dani 11:25

Like not saying yes, not saying no, not kind of talking through what was happening and saying, this is actually happening really quickly, and there may not actually be time for that, so that you could even wrap your brain around any of the possibilities.

Patricia 11:39

That's exactly right. So then I remember being wheeled into the OR, delivery room, whatever it was, the room. I was being wheeled into a room. And the nurse that was wheeling me, that was the first time where I looked at her and I said, I'm not getting any medication, am I? And she just shook her head. No. Then I was like, oh, s***.

Dani 11:59

Uh-huh.

Patricia 12:00

So then I was like, okay, well, if I'm gonna do this without any pain medication, then I'm gonna give it 700% and I'm gonna go.

Dani 12:11

Mm-hmm.

Patricia 12:12

And so thankfully, I didn't push for very long. Again, so like my water broke at 10:30 at night and Audrey was born at 1.30 in the morning.

NICU Stay, Hypervigilance & Postpartum Anxiety

Dani 12:24

Oh, wow, that was fast.

Patricia 12:26

Very, very fast.

Dani 12:28

Is that still able to be considered a precipitous birth?

Patricia 12:32

I don't even know what that means, but sure. What is precipitous?

Emily 12:35

I don't know if there is a criteria. I will look it up.

Dani 12:38

Oh, rapid and unexpected delivery that occurs within three hours of the onset of regular contractions.

Patricia 12:44

Yep, that sounds about right. Yep. So that was a pretty traumatic experience for me.

Dani 12:50

Yes.

Emily 12:51

Yes.

Patricia 12:52

And there are also things like when you talked just now about like flashes or memories that I have. There are memories that my husband has that I don't have. Well, he'll say, like, remember when you did this? I'm like, no, I don't.

Dani 13:03

Did he make it in time?

Patricia 13:05

Yes, he did.

Dani 13:06

I was like, oh my gosh, we forgot to set the scene. Like, where are the main characters? Is he still at the restaurant? Like, are your parents there? Like, okay, so you were wheeled back. Did you have a C-section? Was it a...?

Patricia 13:21

This was a vaginal birth, so.

Dani 13:24

Okay.

Patricia 13:24

Yeah. So he arrived just as I was coming into the emergency room. And also a fun little detail about that moment is that I had already registered with this hospital, but they didn't have my registration paperwork. So there I was in the hospital, contractions happening two minutes apart. And they were like, Here, can you fill this out for us real quick?

Emily 13:48

No, I cannot.

Dani 13:49

Had it just not been entered yet, or they just couldn't find it?

Patricia 13:53

They couldn't find it.

Dani 13:54

Oh, dang it.

Patricia 13:55

I know. So he was there with me at that point. My parents were there, not in the delivery room. Scott was there with me in the delivery room.

Emily 14:04

Okay, so after the baby's born, you're a 35 week-er, right?

Dani 14:09

34.

Emily 14:10

34. So what was the after? Like, were we like headed off to the NICU? Were they like, oh look, great Apgar score? You know, no further questions, Your Honor. Like, what happened next?

Patricia 14:23

Yeah, so...

Emily 14:24

Sorry.

Patricia 14:27

No, that's okay. It was hilarious. We can laugh about this now.

Dani 14:31

Yeah.

Emily 14:32

Yes.

Patricia 14:32

At the time, zero laughter happening. Yes. So Audrey was taken to the NICU. We stayed in the neonatal intensive care unit for only seven days. And there was no major medical complications. She weighed five pounds, seven ounces, which is not bad.

Dani 14:54

That's pretty good, right?

Emily 14:55

Nice work. Good job.

Patricia 14:57

I cooked her real good. Thank you. Um, she just had a little bit of jaundice, and they just wanted to make sure that she was going to gain weight and all of that stuff.

Dani 15:08

Right.

Patricia 15:09

But I had so much anxiety just because... well, just. Just because, you know, everything had been so fast that on a scale of one to ten, I was at an 11 all the time.

Emily 15:23

In terms of hypervigilance?

Patricia 15:25

Yeah. In terms of hypervigilance and still just like fight or flight kind of.

Emily 15:33

Oh, that's your parasympathetic nervous system.

Patricia 15:37

Yeah.

Dani 15:37

It was like activated.

Patricia 15:40

Activated.

Emily 15:41

Run! Hide!

Patricia 15:42

On turbo. Yes.

Dani 15:44

It was like there's a saber-toothed tiger...

Emily 15:47

Everywhere. Yeah.

Breastfeeding Struggles, Low Milk Supply & Pressure to Perform

Patricia 15:48

Everywhere. So anxiety is a real milk killer as far as breast milk is concerned.

Emily 15:55

Yep.

Patricia 15:56

And up until that time, I didn't have any close friends who had had children. I'm the youngest of four. So I had watched all of my siblings have kids. And I don't know, seemed pretty easy, seemed pretty normal to try to breastfeed. And that was the plan. Like, sure, I'll just breastfeed and...

Dani 16:18

I'll just do that.

Patricia 16:19

Yeah, I'll just do that. So again, like being through a traumatic experience, being in the NICU where I couldn't hold my baby as much as I wanted to. Especially, you know, just to backtrack a little bit. After giving birth, you know, the delivery doctor took her, placed her on my chest for a split second, and then took her to another room to do something. I don't even know what, like I guess make sure she was breathing properly or something. So being in the NICU with her, breastfeeding was challenging. I'll just put it that way.

Emily 16:56

Yeah.

Patricia 16:57

You know, I didn't feel like my milk was coming in. And there were nurses who were telling me, yeah, well, you know, because of everything you've been through, like it may take a couple of days. And they encouraged me to pump like every three hours, which for me was very, very physically uncomfortable.

Dani 17:17

Yeah.

Patricia 17:18

I just wasn't producing barely anything.

Dani 17:22

I have a question, just as somebody who, I have three kids and none of them were NICU babies. So I don't know what it's like in the NICU. Do you have like privacy? I mean, this is your first baby. Everybody has kind of a different comfort level with, you know, breastfeeding. You know, like by the time I had my third, I was basically answering the door if it rang and I was nursing, you know, okay. But I didn't feel that same way the first time. I'm not trying to push my feelings on you. I'm just curious, like, did you have privacy? Did it feel like you were on display? Like, did that also add to it? Or...

Patricia 17:51

We did have privacy. I do think that we were very fortunate during that year, during that month, like in that specific hospital, there was room for us to have a private room. That's not always the case.

Dani 18:05

Wow. Okay.

Patricia 18:05

So we were able to have a private room.

Dani 18:08

Did you go home every night and then come back in the morning?

Patricia 18:11

Yeah. It was just surreal. It was just really weird. I felt very disassociated. You know, being in the NICU with her, she was in, you know, the incubation chamber. She had, you know, an oxygen tube in her nose. And again, we were very, very lucky to not have any major medical issues. And being in the NICU, when you go into that wing of the hospital, there's an area where you have to scrub up real good first.

Dani 18:46

Oh, yeah.

Patricia 18:47

So there's this sink with this like special scrub brushes and special soap and special everything that you have to use. And at that sink, I met other NICU moms.

Dani 18:57

Oh.

Patricia 18:58

You know, we would chit-chat with oh, how long have you been here? And there were moms who had, their babies had been there for months.

Dani 19:05

Wow.

Patricia 19:05

I couldn't even imagine what that must be like. So that's, you know, when I started talking about the NICU, like we were very, very lucky to only be there for seven days.

Emily 19:16

Yes.

Patricia 19:16

But we would go into the NICU and depending on like if they had to do a blood test or something, like I couldn't just walk into the room and pick her up and hold her.

Dani 19:29

Yes.

Patricia 19:29

I had to ask permission first. That's not a knock against the nurses. Like, I understand there are policies and procedures in place for this type of thing. It was just weird. And again, I was always at an 11, just wondering, like, what's going on? Is she okay? What's the next step? When are we going home? How do I feed her? Is this okay? Just like a million questions a minute. Because I'm not a doctor. I don't know.

Dani 19:54

Yeah. There was a lot of unknown and unexpected. First of all, you were a first-time parent. Second of all, this happened way faster. I mean, way sooner than you thought. You still thought you had a month and a half to go.

Patricia 20:06

Right.

Leaving the NICU & The Fear of Bringing Baby Home

Dani 20:06

And thirdly, I mean, this is not how you expected post-delivery to go. You thought you would come in with a baby in your body and then walk out and go, is it okay for us to leave right now and drive down the road with this thing? We're new here, but okay. Like, you know, you probably thought we will leave. We've got to have the car seat in the car, and that's how we're gonna leave the hospital.

Emily 20:28

Which maybe you didn't even have ready at 34 weeks. Like...

Dani 20:32

Probably not.

Patricia 20:33

That's so funny that you bring that up because that's another like big memory that we have of being in the NICU, is that Scott and I, like, you know, on our smartphones researching like what's the best car seat?

Dani 20:44

Oh, yeah.

Patricia 20:45

And he did all of that research. I will give him kudos for that. He's very good at research and he handled all of that. But yeah, I had just had my baby shower a week earlier.

Dani 20:57

Oh, you didn't have everything set up yet?

Patricia 20:59

No.

Dani 21:00

I'm kidding.

Patricia 21:01

No, I didn't. And this is the joke that we make now is Audrey heard us talking about her and she just like really wanted to like poke her head out, be like, Are you guys talking about me?

Dani 21:11

Hello.

Patricia 21:11

Yes, we were talking about you. '

Emily 21:15

Not now.

Patricia 21:15

Because there was no medical reason. No doctor gave me any kind of medical explanation of why this happened the way that it happened.

Dani 21:25

Not even afterwards?

Patricia 21:26

No.

Dani 21:27

Oh.

Emily 21:28

Weird.

Dani 21:29

I wonder how often that happens.

Patricia 21:30

I wonder too. I don't know, but it was all very confusing.

Dani 21:35

If anybody's an expert in this area and you know a stat, let us know. Send us a message. I'm just curious about that.

Emily 21:41

I was just thinking about like the learning curve to going into the NICU every day, right?

Patricia 21:45

Mm-hmm.

Emily 21:46

What you have to do to go in, what you do when you're in there. Like what's the procedure for picking up the baby? Like, what are you hearing around you. To transition, whether it's three days or 35 days or whatever. From an environment where there are external rules and you have to follow them. Like they are there for safety for lots of different situations.

Patricia 22:08

Right.

Emily 22:09

To being at home and being like, okay, well, I spent the last seven days in your case learning that this is the procedure before picking up the baby. You know, I have to do this and do this and do this. And then can I pick up the baby?

Dani 22:22

What was it like coming home?

Patricia 22:24

I remember that last day in the hospital where we were kind of feeling like, okay, we're gonna go home today? We're good? Okay.

Emily 22:34

And that's the other thing is sometimes you don't know. Like they're like, maybe, but maybe not. And so you're not like, there's no plan. You're not like, oh, I'm going home tomorrow.

Patricia 22:42

No, it's not like I'm trying to think of it. I know y'all love a metaphor.

Dani 22:46

Oh, yeah. Hit us.

Patricia 22:48

I'm trying to think of a good metaphor of like something that you start and then there's a completion, and then you know, like, I'm done now.

Emily 22:58

Like baking a cake.

Dani 23:00

Oh, there we go.

Patricia 23:01

Sure.

Emily 23:01

You set a timer, it goes bing. The cake comes out.

Patricia 23:05

It goes bing, and now you're done.

Emily 23:06

Maybe you check it with a toothpick, but like that's it. That's the whole thing.

Patricia 23:10

Right. There was a very much like a roller coaster of will we or won't we go home at the end. And then, you know, we're completely at the mercy of these nurses and doctors.

Dani 23:22

Yeah.

Patricia 23:23

It is not our decision. Like, we're ready to go home now. Nope, it's not up to us. We have no say in this matter. And so when we finally did get the okay, we were relieved and happy, but driving home with her to our house was terrifying.

Dani 23:41

Did you drive really slow?

Patricia 23:42

Really slow.

Dani 23:43

Yes.

Patricia 23:44

So slow I was in the back seat with her in the car seat, and I had my hands on her, and we were silent. It was probably like a 20-25-minute drive home. And I just felt like I had robbed a bank. I felt like, how am I getting away with this?

Emily 24:00

That's a great metaphor.

Dani 24:02

But your getaway was- you're going 55 in the right lane on the freeway. Like you should have been pulled over for going too slow.

Patricia 24:11

How am I allowed to do this? Because again, like I'm not a doctor. Like, so the transition to home, I was used to having medical professionals surrounding me 24-7. And now I had to be the nurse. I had to be the doctor. And that caused a lot of anxiety and hypervigilance.

Sleep Deprivation, Feeding Schedules & Rising Postpartum Anxiety

Emily 24:31

Right.

Patricia 24:32

So in the NICU, because my milk production was so low, we were supplementing with formula from day one. And so there was still a lot of messaging that I was hearing about how I still needed to give her my own breast milk. Even if it was just a little bit, it was so important because she was preemie to get that breast milk. I was feeding her from my body, and then I would pass her off to my husband. He would feed her formula, and then I would immediately start pumping on a three-hour pattern.

Emily 25:07

And it takes almost three hours to complete the whole thing.

Patricia 25:10

Right.

Emily 25:11

How long did you stay in that completely impossible to maintain cycle?

Patricia 25:19

Good question.

Dani 25:21

Slash what broke the cycle?

Emily 25:23

Right. White flag.

Dani 25:24

Foreshadowing.

Patricia 25:25

Yeah. I remember going to the pediatrician at some point. And even though she was gaining some, they were not thrilled with how much she was gaining. And so then it was recommended that we rent a hospital grade pump and a hospital grade scale so that I could weigh her, nurse her, and then weigh her again to see how much I was actually feeding her. Which, like, in hindsight, there was no way that I was coming out of this without postpartum anxiety.

Dani 26:02

Yeah. Oh, wait. So you want me to be even more hyper-vigilant. They're saying that I need to collect so much data, like throw this in an Excel spreadsheet to determine if I'm doing a good enough job.

Patricia 26:15

Yes.

Dani 26:15

Oh, wow. It's a lot.

Patricia 26:17

Yeah. So the amount of scientific scrutiny that I was under, that my body was under, it was hard. I remember seeing a lactation consultant, and maybe she was three months old, four months old. I don't remember. But I just remember seeing her, and she was very kind and she was giving me pointers as far as like positions and things like that, you know, things that I could eat, like oatmeal and like there's like a mother's milk tea, things like that. I think I saw her for let's say four weeks. And at the end of four weeks, when nothing had improved, she said, Well, there's this medication, this prescription medication that you can try. And that's where I drew the line. That was where I finally gave myself permission. I said, you know what? I've tried everything that I could have possibly tried. I quit.

Emily 27:14

Yeah.

Dani 27:15

How did that feel to make that decision?

Patricia 27:17

It was a relief.

Dani 27:18

Yeah.

Patricia 27:19

It was a real relief. Breastfeeding for me was really painful. I did not enjoy it. And so that was probably, I think, like six months.

Dani 27:28

And Patricia, you tried a long time.

Patricia 27:32

Yeah.

Dani 27:33

Wow. Let's just recognize that.

Patricia 27:35

Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Thank you. And like we were supplementing with formula the entire time. She had acid reflux in the first few weeks. Because, you know, when you're a preemie human, your internal organs aren't fully developed.

Emily 27:50

And so that little muscle that's supposed to close off the stomach.

Patricia 27:55

I know.

Emily 27:56

Well, close off, but like, you know.

Patricia 27:59

So it was a lot. Suffice to say, it was a lot. Okay. So, like relating all of this back to mental health, this whole time I felt like I was supposed to be hyper-vigilant because we had been to the NICU. We had a traumatic experience. So I was supposed to be at an 11. It never dawned on me like I shouldn't feel this way, you know?

Dani 28:23

Well, yeah. I mean, and you also were being asked to collect a lot of data to do things that you didn't think you were gonna have to do. Weigh the baby first. Like you said, all of your older siblings had had children. Did you ever witness anybody go, oh, just a second, the baby's hungry. Let me get the scale out first. Let me just write down the data. Okay, and let's go ahead and feed. And then we're- oh, we're done here. Let's go ahead and weigh again before we move on to the next activity.

Patricia 28:51

Yeah, no, there was no Thanksgiving dinner where that happened.

Dani 28:54

Right. Like, so that was another reason that you kind of had that message in your brain that you did need to be paying attention to things and you know that that's something that not everybody needs to do.

Patricia 29:05

Yeah.

Dani 29:05

In your experience, right? Absolutely. It's understandable.

Emily 29:09

Anyone who comes home with a baby is gonna come home with some amount of sleep deprivation that they're gonna have to deal with for probably some longer than they want period of time. There are tons of learning curves, whether you're breastfeeding or bottle feeding or some combination of feeding, you're learning new skills. And even if it's not the first baby, the second baby inevitably needs completely different stuff because why on earth would they operate the same way for our sake?

Dani 29:40

Also, let's just say that's rude, but I digress.

Emily 29:44

Come on. Like I built a template and then had a different kid, like...

Dani 29:50

I was mad that nobody told me that the tricks that I finally discovered on the first child would not, in fact, work on the second child. I was like, this is a ripoff. I want to refund. I'm kidding, I didn't want to refund, but...

Patricia 30:01

It's like they're humans and not robots.

Emily 30:04

Yes.

Patricia 30:05

Which is maddening. One plus one equals two.

Dani 30:08

Yeah. Thought I was having a robot.

Emily 30:10

So, in addition to all of these things that you have to learn, not having ever, I don't know, peeked behind the Wizard of Oz's curtain before.

Patricia 30:19

No, I never had.

Emily 30:20

Like you're doing all of that, and someone throws on a set of administrative tasks. Clean this hospital grade pump multiple times a day. And you're going to calculate and you're going to weigh.

Patricia 30:35

And report back to me.

Emily 30:36

Right. So, in addition to learning all of this, they give you all of that.

Patricia 30:41

Sure. Also, find time for self.

Dani 30:43

Treat yourself. What? Sorry, this isn't funny, but I mean, it really is like...

Patricia 30:51

It is funny, but it's also just ridiculous. It's preposterous to look back at what was asked of me at that time.

Dani 30:59

Yeah. And none of us knew what we didn't know. I mean, you don't know what you don't know. Like you didn't know that maybe you could have said, ah, this isn't working, sooner.

Patricia 31:09

Right.

Dani 31:10

Or I would rather not try to breastfeed for five months or however long it was.

Patricia 31:16

Right.

Postpartum Depression Screening & Why She Didn’t Tell the Truth

Dani 31:16

You know, it's getting in the way. I'm not sleeping. I'm feeling extra irritable. I'm like really nervous about all the things. At any point, Patricia, did you mention how you were feeling to your primary care doctor? Like, how did recovery go? Were you undiagnosed the whole time? And there is no wrong answer here. You're talking to two people who were undiagnosed. Emily was after her second birth, but like I never talked to anybody about anything until like eight years after my third was born. So I was closed-lipped about what was really going on.

Patricia 31:47

So I was given the Edinburgh postnatal depression scale questionnaire.

Dani 31:52

Did you tell the truth?

Patricia 31:53

No.

Dani 31:54

Okay, just asking for a friend.

Patricia 31:56

No. Saw right through that.

Dani 31:58

Tell the truth, people. It's okay.

Emily 32:01

I'm fine, fine, fine. Thank you for asking.

Dani 32:03

Why did you not tell the truth? Again, no wrong answer.

Patricia 32:07

Yeah, no, I've thought about this a lot.

Dani 32:09

Yeah.

Patricia 32:10

Because of all of the work that I do with PSI. I think about this a lot. And I think that there are several answers to the question. There's several pieces to the puzzle here. One is I didn't know what would happen next.

Dani 32:22

Uh-huh.

Patricia 32:23

I didn't know that I could answer honestly and I wouldn't be sent to a mental hospital immediately.

Emily 32:32

Like that they would just be like, here's some papers of some like phone numbers and things.

Patricia 32:37

Right.

Emily 32:38

Like let us know if you need anything else.

Patricia 32:40

I was scared that if I answered honestly, I would be separated from my baby. And that was terrifying to me. Of course, now I know now that that is not the reality.

Dani 32:50

Right.

Emily 32:51

For most, but for some, that is the reality, right?

Patricia 32:54

Sure.

Dani 32:55

Because maybe you need some time and space to help yourself so that you can help your baby, right?

Patricia 33:02

Absolutely.

Emily 33:02

Or you're separated because someone's a little overzealous or misreads your symptoms as something else.

Patricia 33:11

That's right.

Emily 33:12

We do have evidence to support your fear that answering a certain way shouldn't be, should not be, but sometimes doesn't have the right result.

Dani 33:21

And luckily in 2025, there are so many more perinatal mental health certified providers out there that know how to ask the important questions.

Patricia 33:32

That's right.

Dani 33:32

In a way that helps parents feel like they're not alone or monsters and can have that open, honest discussion about, you know, I'm feeling exhausted and like not myself.

Patricia 33:46

Yeah. Like you're allowed to say, I'm not loving this right now.

Dani 33:51

Yeah.

Patricia 33:51

Like it's okay to love your baby, to have love for your baby, but also hate being sleep deprived. It's hard.

Dani 33:59

Yeah.

Patricia 33:59

So that was definitely part of the puzzle too, is that like the question was like, are you enjoying things the way that you used to? And in my mind, I'm like, well, no, of course not. The answer is, well, of course not enjoying things the way that I used to, but also I'm not supposed to be enjoying things the way that I used to. That was my belief. Where does that come from? That's a whole other therapy session. But like when I'm answering these questions, I answered yes because I was interpreting the question in a certain way where I didn't feel like I could tell the truth, if that makes sense.

Dani 34:36

Yeah.

Emily 34:36

Yeah.

Dani 34:36

So it was not flagged. You know, your provider wasn't like, okay, checking out the questionnaire real quick. Looks like she didn't score very high on this depression scale. So we don't really need to touch too much on it. But we now know that a lot of providers, especially the perinatal mental health certified ones, are asking important questions like how's your sleep? How are you feeling emotionally?

Patricia 34:56

Yeah.

Dani 34:57

In a way that people will open up. So even if, even if that wasn't answered on the Edinburgh, you know, scale, right? Then maybe I'll come up in conversation as like a double check, right?

Patricia 35:07

Right.

Dani 35:07

And we are so thankful for that type of care. Anyway.

Patricia 35:12

It's not an anyway. It's an important thing to bring up, you know, these are all realities that parents all over the world experience.

Dani 35:20

Mm-hmm.

Emily 35:21

Yep.

Dani 35:21

Yeah. I keep coming back to it because I, like you, just was really worried about saying the hard things out loud. And I know Emily was too. And I just want parents so badly to know that it's okay to say how you're feeling and say like hard things out loud.

Emily 35:38

I thought it was normal to feel a need to be so hyper-vigilant.

Patricia 35:41

Right.

Dani 35:42

Like this is my job now.

Patricia 35:43

Yeah, I'm being a good mom.

Dani 35:45

Yeah. Like I've got a head on a swivel. Right?

Patricia 35:49

That's right. Yeah.

Emily 35:51

Okay, so after you lie your liar pants on fire-d the Edinburgh.

Dani 35:56

Rude, Emily.

Emily 35:57

What?

Dani 35:58

Patricia. So sorry about that.

Patricia 36:00

No, 100% guilty.

Emily 36:02

When did you get to the land of help?

Hitting Rock Bottom: “I Don’t Want to Do This Anymore”

Patricia 36:05

So this is where the super, super dark and embarrassing part of the story comes in. Which is okay. It's okay.

Dani 36:13

Mm-hmm.

Patricia 36:13

It helps for me to say out loud that it's embarrassing, but it's true. So here it is. This was after I had weaned myself off of breastfeeding, which it's important to wean. What did we say that was? Six months, seven months? I don't know.

Emily 36:30

Yeah, somewhere in there.

Patricia 36:32

We were using exclusive formula. We were using these bottles. It's Dr. Brown's bottles.

Emily 36:39

Oh, yeah.

Patricia 36:40

So if you've ever used these, you know how there's like 37 parts to this bottle.

Emily 36:46

They've got like the plastic that goes into the glass or plastic that, like...

Dani 36:51

That's really not nice to do to sleep-deprived people, you know. I mean...

Patricia 36:55

There's at least 700 parts to this stupid bottle. And I appreciate the bottle. No shade against Dr. Brown. Like, we needed the bottle because she was having acid reflux and it helped with gas, bada bada blah.

Dani 37:07

Yeah.

Patricia 37:07

So cleaning the bottles was a challenge. I was so sleep-deprived, and I was so sleep deprived. And I cannot say that enough.

Dani 37:16

Yes.

Patricia 37:17

I was really struggling. And I remember this moment of being at the kitchen sink with my husband, and Audrey was down for the night, and we were like prepping for the next day. We were cleaning these 700 bottle parts at the kitchen sink. And I remember just sobbing. I was just sobbing. I just broke down and I was sobbing, sobbing, sobbing. And you know, he had his arm around me. He was like, honey, it's okay, it's okay. And all I could sputter out was, I don't want to do this anymore. And he was like, oh, honey, it's okay. Go lie down. Like, I'll clean the rest of the bottle parts. It's okay. And...

Dani 37:54

I'm not talking about bottle parts.

Patricia 37:56

I'm not talking about bottle parts. I don't want to do any of this anymore. I don't want to live anymore. And it was just this absolute kind of rock bottom feeling. And it really took him aback. I could tell, his face was making a face, and I could tell he was really shocked by the severity of what I was saying. I don't remember what happened exactly, but the next thing I remember is being in the bathtub for hours. Again, like very disassociated, numb, because I didn't see any possible way that it could get better.

Emily 38:36

Like you felt like I am Sisyphus. I am going to every day for the rest of my life clean these bottles and be sleep deprived again and again and again. And you can't see the end. And you're like...

Dani 38:51

No, thanks.

Patricia 38:52

No.

Emily 38:52

Like help exit.

Dani 38:54

How did that feel in that moment that you were thinking that? Or after? I mean, we're getting real personal.

Patricia 39:02

Go for it.

Dani 39:03

Had you experienced thoughts like that before?

Patricia 39:06

No, it was um in the moment, it felt almost like a business-like decision.

Dani 39:13

Oh, well, this is not working.

Patricia 39:14

I am weighing pros and cons. And the cons outweigh the pros. So I'm gonna think about ways to not be here anymore. And I've heard other people tell these kinds of stories where we talk about suicidal ideations, and I've heard other people talk about their ideas of my baby is better off without me, like I'm bad for them, et cetera. And I didn't have any of those ideas. It was really truthfully just about me. I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And I felt confident. I was like, my husband can take care of her, my mom can take care of her.

Dani 39:52

They got this.

Patricia 39:52

They're gonna be fine. So it was really just time. It was really just like several hours of me being by myself.

Emily 40:01

The bathwater's cold at that point.

Patricia 40:03

Oh, so cold.

Dani 40:04

Did he know about those ideas?

Patricia 40:06

Yeah, I told him.

Dani 40:08

So you were first down at the sink washing dishes, crying and saying, I can't do this. And he was like, please go take a bath. Do what you need to do. I got this, you went to take a bath. And then did he come up and check in with you? And you later said, I'm... it would be better. If I was not part of this team.

Patricia 40:26

That's a good question. And to be honest, I don't have a super clear memory of all of that detail. I just I remember having the conversation of if I'm gonna have those types of thoughts, I need to talk to a therapist.

Seeking Help: Therapy, Support & Taking the First Step

Dani 40:41

Oh, wow.

Patricia 40:42

That was like the action item was okay, tomorrow morning we're going to research and we're gonna get you a therapist. So yeah.

Dani 40:51

Wow.

Patricia 40:52

That's how it happened.

Dani 40:53

Go team.

Patricia 40:54

Yeah, yeah.

Dani 40:55

Way to tell your partner how you were feeling because you felt like you couldn't say the things out loud at the doctor's office, but you were able to tell somebody that you really cared about.

Patricia 41:06

Yeah.

Dani 41:07

Good job.

Patricia 41:07

So that's how we entered helpland.

Dani 41:09

Okay, so you found a therapist.

Emily 41:12

Helpland!

Dani 41:14

Was that your first time being in therapy? Had you been in therapy throughout your life? What was that like? I mean, it sounds like you were pretty receptive to the idea.

Patricia 41:22

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I had seen a therapist in the past for some other, like not generalized anxiety disorder or generalized depressive disorder, things like that, but more so just like some really challenging life transitions that I was going through. So I was totally open to it and I saw value in talking to a therapist. And so we found someone, we found an individual therapist who was just lovely. We really got so lucky and found somebody. She wasn't certified in perinatal mental health, but she herself was a mom. She was great. She was really great. And I know again that I'm super lucky in that capacity because so many people have to go through the trial and error of finding somebody who works with them.

Dani 42:08

This didn't feel like a good fit. This, you know.

Patricia 42:11

Exactly.

Dani 42:12

So did you get in pretty quickly?

Patricia 42:13

I did. I got in really quickly. Again, I was super lucky.

Dani 42:17

Oh, amazing.

Patricia 42:18

And I remember too, like, I don't remember how this happened exactly. The details are fuzzy, but I somehow... probably Scott did some research.

Dani 42:28

Yeah, Scott. Shout out. Mr. Research.

Patricia 42:32

Yes.

Dani 42:32

You're like the sweeper, and he's like, what's on his jersey?

Patricia 42:36

What's the soccer metaphor for the researcher? Um, team manager, maybe?

Dani 42:41

Maybe.

Patricia 42:42

I don't know.

Dani 42:42

Anyway, okay, we'll think on it. We'll get back to you.

Finding Peer Support & Realizing You’re Not Alone

Patricia 42:46

Yeah. We'll have him do research on his own research. So we found a peer support group that met in person.

Dani 42:56

I've been waiting for this. I'm like,

Patricia 42:58

Yes.

Dani 42:58

How did she get connected with peer support? We're gonna get there.

Patricia 43:02

This is where the magic really happened.

Dani 43:04

Okay, so you saw a therapist, then you found a peer support group in Raleigh.

Patricia 43:08

Yes. Moms Supporting Moms. Moms Supporting Moms! Great. Still exists to this day, is an amazing peer support group. Wait a second. Wait a second. Is this ringing a bell?

Dani 43:21

Megan.

Patricia 43:22

Megan Roberts.

Dani 43:23

Hey, shout out Megan Roberts.

Patricia 43:26

Isn't she the best?

Dani 43:28

Yes.

Emily 43:28

So are you. We all are.

Patricia 43:32

I think that's true.

Dani 43:33

Yeah.

Emily 43:34

I want to thank me. Sorry, I'm kidding.

Dani 43:37

Okay.

Patricia 43:40

Yeah.

Dani 43:40

So what was that like, Patricia? You found Moms Supporting Moms.

Patricia 43:44

Found Moms Supporting Moms. And I remember going to the first meeting. First of all, I left my daughter at home, which was terrifying.

Dani 43:52

Oh, not alone. Just for anybody wondering.

Patricia 43:55

Yes, you can bring your infant to these meetings, but I elected to have a break.

Dani 44:00

Wow, that is a healthy boundary. That is okay.

Patricia 44:04

That is okay.

Dani 44:05

That's also a very common thing for people to be worried about. Asking for what they need.

Emily 44:11

What does it say about me if I want to do something without this like sack of potatoes that cries at me all the time?

Dani 44:17

I mean, I love potatoes, but I need to go to this support group alone.

Patricia 44:22

Yes, because also, like, I know this is common too for a lot of first-time parents. The baby cry to me sounded like a fire engine alarm.

Dani 44:34

Oh, it hits different, you know?

Patricia 44:36

It does hit different.

Emily 44:37

I felt like it was like caused pain.

Patricia 44:40

Yes. Yes. Physical and emotional pain.

Dani 44:43

Just from your baby or any baby?

Patricia 44:45

My baby.

Emily 44:46

Same.

Dani 44:47

Yes.

Emily 44:47

Other people's babies, go ahead.

Dani 44:49

I was like, not my problem.

Patricia 44:51

I was like, oh, that's weird. Do I hear something? That's weird.

Dani 44:54

I am not on duty for that. Yeah.

Patricia 44:56

So I say all of that to say that having a break from hearing the baby cry was helpful.

Emily 45:04

Yeah.

Patricia 45:04

So going to the peer support group. And I remember being there for the first time. It was a doctor's office lobby, like after hours that they let us use the space and sitting, you know, in a chair in a circle with other moms and listening to their stories and realizing that I'm not alone in this. And that all of these other people have also had like really traumatic experiences, or they had unrealistic expectations of what parenthood was going to be like, or they had no support at all, no friends or family to help them. And they were struggling with feeding, or they had a lot of family and support nearby. And breastfeeding was easy for them, but they still had symptoms of depression. There's just so many different stories. And hearing these stories gave me comfort to just know that I'm not suffering alone in this. And to also know that, like it doesn't mean that I'm a bad mom because it was so easy for me to hear their stories and give that compassion and say to them, Dani, you're still a good mom.

Dani 46:17

Thanks. I'm gonna remember that later today.

Patricia 46:20

Yeah.

Emily 46:20

Yeah.

Patricia 46:20

That group was just life-saving. It was amazing.

Dani 46:23

Aw, peer support. That's where it's at.

Patricia 46:26

Yeah.

Dani 46:26

Wow. So here's a question before we jump into the lightning round in a few minutes. What led you to the work that you're doing now? Were you- I'm a little bit of a nerd. Like I always want to know were you doing something completely related?

Patricia 46:41

Completely different.

Emily 46:42

Yeah. In your previous life, what did you do?

Patricia 46:44

I was a restaurant manager.

Dani 46:46

Wow. And you had a baby and unexpected things happened, and you had unrealistic expectations and like all these different things, and you felt things you didn't think you were gonna feel, and...

Patricia 46:58

Yeah.

Dani 46:59

Got help and found community.

Patricia 47:01

Yeah.

Dani 47:02

And here you are.

Patricia 47:03

And here I am. Yeah. After I started going to the peer support group and my individual therapist and I discussed getting on medication, which I eventually did. I'm so glad that I did, by the way. I know medication isn't for everybody, it was for me.

Emily 47:20

Same girl, same.

Patricia 47:22

After recovery, I went back to the support group program manager, the great Megan Roberts, and I said, hey, can I volunteer? And ever since then, because I didn't really have a career trajectory before this, other than hospitality industry, I'd kind of like dabbled in the corporate world and the nonprofit world. So after recovery, volunteering with this peer support group. And then it was when actually Megan announced that she was leaving to go work at PSI. I was devastated first of all. I was like, oh my God, don't leave me. But then later, when we decided to have another child, I was shocked that I decided that I was ready and able to do that four years later. But then I just felt so strongly that this was my calling. That, you know, taking all of this trauma and making meaning out of it.

Emily 48:28

Yes.

Dani 48:29

It's what you're supposed to do.

Patricia 48:30

Is what I was supposed to do. Yeah. So I really felt like I was going out on a limb when I reached out to Megan and said, like, hey, is there any way that I could volunteer for PSI? And when she said yes, I was like a dream come true. It was a dream come true for me. And I couldn't believe I was like, little old me, I could work for some organization as prestigious as Postpartum Support International. Are you kidding me?

Dani 48:56

Incredible.

Patricia 48:57

And now here I am.

Dani 48:58

Yay. Oh my gosh. I love hearing everybody's stories and especially like how our experience has informed and shaped like the trajectory of the rest of our lives. I mean, it's like unexpected things happened.

Patricia 49:14

Right.

Dani 49:14

And we couldn't have expected the incredible stuff we get to do now to support folks the way that we needed to be supported.

Patricia 49:20

Yeah.

Dani 49:21

Feels so good.

Patricia 49:22

Yeah. And I got my certification in perinatal mental health.

Dani 49:26

Hey, woo-woop

Emily 49:27

Me too! Earlier this week.

Patricia 49:29

Yeah, I know. Isn't it the best?

Dani 49:31

I was very nervous.

Patricia 49:32

Oh my gosh, I was so nervous.

Dani 49:34

Emily was so nervous to take the test.

Emily 49:38

I was so nervous that I was like, I don't need my PMH-C. And everyone talked me into it. And now here I am.

Dani 49:44

Feels really good, right?

Emily 49:46

I- yeah, I like letters after my name.

A Message to Her Daughter & Reframing an “Unplanned” Pregnancy

Patricia 49:49

That's so funny.

Dani 49:50

Patricia, thanks for sharing all of that. This is like uh...

Patricia 49:54

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate your time. And I feel like I could continue to talk about this for another four hours. I'm not going to, but in thinking about being on this podcast, you know, one thing that's really important to me is that one day I want my daughters to hear this story. And when they hear this story, it's also really important for me that I don't want them to feel bad. Well, for Audrey specifically, my first, right? I don't want her to think, oh my gosh, my mom had this terrible birthing experience and it's all my fault.

Dani 50:28

Because we know it's not her fault.

Patricia 50:30

No, of course not.

Dani 50:32

Right.

Patricia 50:32

I just feel the need just to say, hi, Audrey, as you listen to this. I just want to let you know that yes, it's true that this was unplanned. But when you hear the word unplanned, don't think unwanted or unloved or like I don't want to fold the laundry, ugh. Think of it like more like impromptu. Like when your bestie texts you and says, hey, do you have lunch plans today? Impromptu, like...

Dani 51:03

It's not what I planned, but...

Patricia 51:05

But let's go. Like an impromptu motherhood journey. And it's a good thing. Yeah.

Dani 51:11

Aw. Patricia, that was like really lovely. You know what? I think this is the first time a podcast guest has ever spoken to their child in an episode. I'm sure you're not the only guest that's thought, gosh, I wonder how the kids feel about. I've even wondered that myself because I didn't talk about my experience postpartum right away. And so sometimes I wonder, like, I wonder what the kids will think when they hear, oh man, after I was born, she had a really hard time.

Patricia 51:39

Right.

Dani 51:39

And that's really great. That's lovely. Like, and important to say that it isn't the kiddo's fault. And it's actually, it's not your fault either. It's not the parents' fault.

Patricia 51:48

That's right.

Dani 51:48

Perinatal mental health complications happen to anybody, whether you're prepared or you're looking out for it, you know about it, you don't know about it. Doesn't discriminate, so.

Patricia 51:58

That's right.

Dani 51:58

Thanks for sharing that.

Patricia 52:00

Thanks. That's all I wanted to say.

Lightning Round: Parenting, Self-Care & Real-Life Hacks

Dani 52:01

Do you have like 10 more minutes for like a lightning round? Hey Emily, can we make it actually lightning-y today? Probably not.

Emily 52:08

Yes. I'm gonna do my best. Okay, are you ready? First question. What is your second favorite podcast? Because we're your first, obviously.

Patricia 52:17

Obviously. I really like Good Hang with Amy Poehler.

Dani 52:20

Yes, that's a new one.

Patricia 52:22

She's the best. She's hilarious. And I love her forever, always. And it's a good time.

Dani 52:27

Hey, Amy. I love her. She's so funny. Are you currently binge watching, reading, listening to anything that we need to put in our queue on Netflix, Audible, Libby? Tell us, anything?

Patricia 52:38

I'm not. I'm so bad about this. I'm on like a steady rotation of old comedy sitcoms that I just watch all the time, like 30 Rock, Parks and Rec, Seinfeld, Schitt's Creek. I'm just like on a steady rotation of shows that I already know.

Emily 52:57

They're your emotional support shows.

Patricia 52:59

Exactly.

Emily 53:00

There's enough to be anxious about.

Patricia 53:02

Yeah, I know, right? I will take a break to watch some things like Severance, I really enjoyed. That was really good. I do have to say also, if there are other people like me who get anxious about watching something that might potentially be upsetting, there's this website called doesthedogdie.com.

Dani 53:24

Oh my gosh.

Patricia 53:25

It's crowdsourced just like Wikipedia. So before I watch something new, I will go on this website to check like, does– name a trigger– happen to somebody in this show? Because if I watch something and like any kind of harm related to a child, like I'll have a bad week.

Dani 53:44

Oh.

Patricia 53:44

It'll ruin my week. That is so cool. I've never heard of that.

Emily 53:49

I mean, this is the best parenting hack.

Patricia 53:52

It's a really good resource.

Dani 53:54

This is like radical self-care. Oh my gosh.

Patricia 53:57

It is. It's a really good resource, especially for those of us who have anxiety or if somebody has OCD or, you know, anything. Like you can go to this resource and check before you watch something new.

Dani 54:11

Doesthedogdie.com. We're gonna put a link to that in the show notes. You best believe.

Emily 54:16

Okay, what's your best parenting hack for real though?

Dani 54:18

Slash what's working in this moment?

Patricia 54:20

Grandparents.

Dani 54:21

Oh, grandparents. Yes!

Patricia 54:23

Again, I know I'm absolutely coming from a place of privilege to like we have grandparents that are local and that are actually devoted to their grandkids and want to spend time with their grandkids.

Dani 54:35

Yeah.

Patricia 54:36

So I use them as much as possible. And do they spoil the grandkids rotten? Absolutely. But that's what they're for. It's fine.

Dani 54:44

Sometimes you don't want to take a sack of potatoes with you everywhere.

Patricia 54:47

Yeah.

Emily 54:48

Basically.

Dani 54:49

Patricia, what is one way that you're going to show yourself a little radical love today?

Patricia 54:53

I'm going to take a nap. Oh yes! I'm in this really sweet zone right now where I can nap. And so I like to think of like rest as rebellion as opposed to like doing, doing, doing and hustle culture. It's just not for me. And so I'm the type of person where I'm not a morning person at all. So like waking up early, getting the kids ready for school, which is its own challenge, I'm allowing myself to take a nap after I do all that.

Dani 55:23

Excellent.

Emily 55:24

Okay. None of the shows that you mentioned are shows that involve time travel, but that's okay. If you got into a time machine, traveled back in time, what would you tell? Not necessarily at any one moment, but maybe there's a moment. What did you need to hear?

Patricia 55:41

I think I would tell myself, get help now. Get help earlier. Don't white knuckle your way through this. It's not supposed to be like this. I would get help much, much earlier. And by that I mean like the peer support groups and the therapy and the medication.

Emily 56:04

Yeah. Yeah.

Patricia 56:04

Also, I would tell myself, guess what? You're gonna work for PSI one day.

Dani 56:10

You'd just be like, oh, also, fun fact.

Outro & Where to Find Support

Emily 56:13

And you'd be like, no way.

Patricia 56:15

Yeah.

Dani 56:16

So there's like cool stuff to look forward to. Okay.

Patricia 56:19

That's right. Exactly.

Dani 56:20

Follow-up question. Very important. Emily and I are a couple of moms, and we just need to check in on everybody that's on our podcast. How are you saying hydrated? How do you take your water? Bubbles, no bubbles, flavor? I mean, is it room temperature? What kind of vessel do you use?

Emily 56:36

Spill the tea.

Patricia 56:40

Tea is water.

Dani 56:41

Mm-hmm. It is.

Patricia 56:42

Yeah. I really like water, actually. I just take it straight from the fridge, like the filtered water spout on the fridge door.

Dani 56:50

Cold, filtered from the fridge.

Patricia 56:52

Yeah. I'd say when I wake up in the morning, I will drink like a pint glass of water and then it's coffee.

Dani 56:59

That's smart to drink water first.

Patricia 57:01

Yeah.

Dani 57:02

I should do that.

Patricia 57:02

I really enjoy drinking water first and then coffee, coffee, coffee.

Emily 57:08

Look at how excited Dani is now. Okay.

Patricia 57:11

Yeah.

Emily 57:11

Friends, she's very excited for coffee.

Patricia 57:13

And then, you know, because I'm old, probably around like noon or one, I have to stop drinking coffee and switch back to water.

Dani 57:20

Relatable.

Emily 57:20

Water, water, water.

Patricia 57:22

Water, water, water. Throughout the day. Yeah.

Dani 57:25

Okay. Thank you.

Emily 57:26

Okay. How can folks get a hold of you? Or don't call me, I'll call you.

Patricia 57:30

No, please. Email me anytime. My email through PSI, it's an abbreviated version of postpartum planning class. So it's ppclass@postpartum.net.

Dani 57:43

ppclass@postpartum.net.

Patricia 57:46

Yes. And please email me all the time with any comments or questions. There's no such thing as a stupid question, in my opinion.

Dani 57:54

I agree.

Emily 57:55

Agree.

Dani 57:55

That's great. We will drop a link to your contact info and all the amazing things that we talked about in today's episode in the show notes. Emily, can you take us out?

Emily 58:05

Why, yes, I can. Okay. Patricia, this has been lovely. It is not a surprise to me, actually, that you are the sweeper in your office because your background in restaurant management, very sweeper.

Dani 58:20

Oh yeah.

Emily 58:20

Like, handle the things. Thank you for being so honest and for helping us handle the things now that need to be handled.

Patricia 58:33

Thank you so much.

Dani 58:35

Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time, and well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.