DEB FLASHENBERG: Prenatal Yoga, Informed Consent & Healing After a Hard Birth

On today's episode, we're sitting down with Deb Flashenberg — certified doula, childbirth educator, founder of the Prenatal Yoga Center in NYC, and host of the Yoga | Birth | Babies podcast (heeeeey!). We’ll chat about how her own postpartum experience, including some physical and emotional challenges after childbirth, shaped the way she teaches and supports others today. We’ll talk yoga, perinatal mental health, community, informed consent, pelvic health, and radical self-care! So, without further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend, Deb.

Mentioned on today's episode:

• The Placenta & Umbilical Cord Explained: Functions, Risks & Birth Facts with Dr. Jessica Vernon
• Podcast: Yoga | Birth | Babies; The Daily; The Official Gilded Age Podcast; The Retrievals
• Watching: The Great British Baking Show; Ted Lasso
• Connect with Deb: prenatalyogacenter.com; Instagram

Interested in sharing your story?
Fill out our podcast interest form here!

Questions about the I AM ONE Podcast?
Email Dani Giddens - dani@postpartum.net

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Transcript

Meet Deb And Today’s Focus

Dani 0:00

Welcome to the I Am One Podcast. On today's episode, we're sitting down with Deb Flaschenberg, a certified doula, childbirth educator, founder of the Prenatal Yoga Center in New York City, and host of the Yoga Birth Babies podcast. Hey! We'll chat about how her own postpartum experience, including some physical and emotional challenges after childbirth, shaped the way she teaches and supports others today. We'll talk yoga, perinatal mental health, community, informed consent, pelvic health, and radical self-care. So without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend Deb. Deb, welcome to the podcast studio. We are so thrilled to be spending some time this afternoon with you. We are just so thrilled that you're here. So thank you.

Deb 0:48

Oh my gosh, thank you. I am so excited. Let's dig in.

Dani 0:52

Oh, dun, dun, dun. Emily, are you ready?

Emily 0:56

Deb, can you introduce yourself to our guests? Name, pronouns, favorite pizza topping. What do we need to know about you?

Dani 1:03

Astrological sign, social security number. Just joking. Let's get personal.

Deb 1:08

I, actually I'm very proud of my astrological sign.

Dani 1:11

I got a pen.

Deb 1:12

Okay, so Deb Flashenberg, I am a Scorpio.

Dani 1:17

Oh!

Deb 1:17

I know, I know. My birthday is actually, I don't know when this is gonna come out, but my birthday is next Friday, which is Halloween.

Dani 1:23

Oh, you're a Halloween.

Deb 1:24

Halloween baby. And I feel like Scorpios are misunderstood. So I just want to express we are not the evil people people think we are, so.

Emily 1:33

As a Gemini, I get that. Okay. Yeah, I get that too. So yeah, proud Scorpio.

Dani 1:38

I'm an Aquarius. I don't understand. I'm joking.

Deb 1:42

My husband's an Aquarius.

Dani 1:43

We'll get along just fine. Okay.

Deb 1:45

All right.

Deb’s Path And Passion For Learning

Deb 1:46

So what else about me? So I'm the founder and director of Prenatal Yoga Center in New York City. I feel like, and my pronouns are she, her, and what- I feel like I have a lot of hats.

Dani 1:55

Oh.

Deb 1:55

So I run PYC, but I also do our teacher training, and I was a doula for over 10 years. I'm a Lamaze childbirth educator, spinning babies educator. I've done so many different certifications, pelvic floor certifications, obviously yoga teacher, but I love learning. It's so weird that my kids will say, like, I hate doing homework. I'm like, I love doing homework. I feel like the more I learn, the more curious I get. And then the more I can bring to my classes and my studios. So that makes me really excited.

Emily 2:26

Do you find that you are drawn to like this particular type of learning and work? Like Lama's childbirth, pelvic floor, these are all very like birth and the confluence of transitioning into parenting, like, or...?

Deb 2:40

It's actually the physical. And so I started off as a singer-dancer and I got into yoga that way. And what I found fascinating about birth, and I still do, it's about the physicality of it. And honestly, it's gonna sound so geeky. The biomechanics of pregnancy and birth fascinate me. I mean, I studied the method, the body ready method, which I'd already known a lot of the principles of because of spinning babies and just working with PTs and my own body and my own curiosity after, especially my first really challenging birth. But I think it's how we move our body can impact how we birth. And then that can impact postpartum and healing. So the physicality and also the mental part. I think having it being a background in performing arts, it's mental as much as physical. Like there's a certain amount of endurance that you have to have and dedication and just discipline. And I love bringing that into the yoga practice, but then in the preparation for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.

Emily 3:46

Very cool.

Dani 3:47

Yeah, I love getting nerdy. So we're down with whatever, wherever this goes today, Deb.

Body Mechanics Of Birth And Recovery

Emily 3:52

You just sort of touched on it a little bit in your intro. Can you tell us a little bit more about how perinatal mental health disorders have come into your life personally, professionally?

Deb 4:03

Yeah. So I personally haven't experienced PMADs. I would say, if anything, I tend to be more on the anxious side, but it didn't really impact my own postpartum. I mean, the thing that actually impacted my own postpartum, I guess we could say it was anxiety. I had a really challenging healing, physical healing from my first birth. In hindsight, I can look back that there was a lot of anxiety around feeling like my body was trashed.

Dani 4:31

Oh, well relatable. Mm-hmm.

Deb 4:34

I mean, like, I remember running into a colleague maybe a few weeks after, like pushing the stroller, and she's like, How are you? I'm like, I feel like my pelvic floor is hanging down to my ankles. And she just looked at me like, whoa, I wasn't expecting that answer.

Dani 4:46

Oh yeah.

Emily 4:47

But it's like you were so aware of your body.

Deb 4:50

I was so aware, and it was just so challenging. And as I mentioned before, like structure and discipline and routine, I can do that. Background, you know, in performing arts, I can do that. And I took that into my healing process because when my PT said, you know, you have to do pelvic floor work twice a day, I'm like, absolutely. Looking back, I'm like, well, I kind of took it to the extreme. So I would do it during the day when I was because she said twice a day. I'm like, okay. And then I had this crazy routine that my son would often get up at like three in the morning for, you know, feeding because you know he was a few weeks old. I'd put him down and then I would do my PT work at like three in the morning. So I'm like, well, she told me I have to do it twice. I'm gonna do it twice. So a little crazy.

Emily 5:36

Could have been sleeping.

Dani 5:37

I mean, well, I mean, she was awake, she was like, I'm here, my body's here.

Deb 5:41

That's what I was thinking. I was like, I'm here, I'm supposed to do it, and if I don't do it now, I'm gonna have to find another time during the day.

Dani 5:48

Which is stressful, yeah.

Deb 5:49

Which is stressful. So that could have been a little bit of anxiety, but I don't know if it was technically perinatal mood anxiety or just stress of like, I feel horrible physically. I have really bad pelvic floor issues and diastasis. On a professional level, I do see this with my students.

Dani 6:10

Yes.

Deb 6:10

So I started the studio 23 years ago. And as we all know, you know, the whole experience of understanding PMADs has adjusted. When I first started, it was just called postpartum depression. You know, so I didn't even know that anxiety and OCD were part of that.

Emily 6:25

Or birth trauma.

Deb 6:26

Or birth trauma. Like...

Dani 6:27

Oh yeah.

Deb 6:28

Oh, that's a whole yeah, that's another

Postpartum Anxiety Signs In The Studio

Deb 6:30

topic, I mean...

Dani 6:30

That's a whole other podcast episode.

Deb 6:33

I still remember seeing a student who was just afraid to touch her baby without washing her hands. In fact, I saw that yesterday in postnatal class too. She's like, wouldn't touch her baby, like constantly doing, you know, like the Purell and wouldn't let anyone else touch. And every time she even- she changed the diaper like five times in half an hour.

Dani 6:52

Yeah.

Emily 6:52

Oh my goodness.

Dani 6:53

Like, hello, OCD. Welcome to the party.

Deb 6:56

And I didn't know that at the time because I didn't know that was something to look out for. But now I do see it and recognize it. And it's not my place because I'm not a therapist. So I don't obviously diagnose, but I do check in with students a fair amount just to see how they're doing. We have a support group at the studio. So I often just say, like, is that something you'd be interested in? So I do see it within my field and I do understand that, you know, anxiety.

Dani 7:25

That's really a great opportunity for students that are coming in for a yoga class, for example, to know that there's another thing that they can do to help themselves by connecting

Whole-Person Care And Community Support

Dani 7:35

with peers. Peer support is where it's at. So that's really cool. You provide that too.

Deb 7:39

Yeah, one of the things that we wanted to make sure we did was not just do yoga, but really attend to the whole person. And I feel like there's such a shift during pregnancy, everyone's focused on the pregnant person. And then all of a sudden they have their baby and everyone's focused on the baby. And often the new parent is kind of left hanging in the wind and not usually getting as much attention as I think they should. So we really try to look at the whole person and see the whole person and not just the new baby.

Emily 8:08

I

A 42-Hour Birth And Its Impact

Emily 8:09

would love to hear a little bit about your birth experience, whatever parts of that you want to share, what you learned from it.

Deb 8:18

Oh, yeah. I'm happy to talk about that.

Emily 8:20

I think your takeaways are really valuable. So tell us you were pregnant once upon a time. What happened next?

Deb 8:26

I had a baby. All right. So let's back it up. So I will start by saying my son is 14 and my daughter's 11.

Dani 8:35

Okay.

Deb 8:36

We talk about birth trauma. And I feel like it's not that I had a traumatic birth. I feel like my body had more of a traumatic birth than my brain.

Dani 8:46

Oh.

Deb 8:47

Let me explain that a little.

Emily 8:48

Yeah.

Deb 8:48

I think it's because I did a home birth and I had a midwife and I had a doula, and the doula happened to be my mentor, because I was a dual at that time too. And I think had I been in a different setting, it might have been more traumatizing because they gave me a lot of space. I never felt pressure. I never felt they'd be like, oh, you know, we're going on hour 30. We gotta get things moving. Like, so it was a long birth. The whole thing all together was about 42 hours.

Dani 9:18

Oh.

Emily 9:19

That's more than a marathon.

Deb 9:21

It was really, really long and it was challenging. So it was in hindsight again, and actually during, because I'd done over 100 births at that point. And I was a childbirth educator. So I'm like, all right, I know what labor typically can look like. I know that there are times that it's longer and shorter. But I knew something was a little off. And I was really nervous that he was in some sort of odd position. We knew his spine was forward, but I kept thinking his head is asynclitic. So like the ear was towards the shoulder, and his head was asynclitic.

Dani 9:54

Rude.

Deb 9:55

How rude of him.

Dani 9:56

Yeah.

Deb 9:56

Just making things hard.

Dani 9:57

Yeah.

Deb 9:57

And he still does. And so...

Dani 10:00

It's okay, that's just between us and I don't know whoever sees it all over the internet, but it's fine.

Deb 10:04

Love him, but anyway, so...

Dani 10:05

All good things. All good things.

Deb 10:08

It was five hours of pushing. And so we talked about my pelvic floor being a hot mess. I mean, I pushed in every possible way. I end up with diastasis. And you can imagine all that strain and pushing.

Emily 10:22

Can you define diastasis?

Deb 10:23

Oh, sure. So it's the- so there's already a separation of the rectus abdominals, kind of your six pack. And then you have this connective tissue inside.

Emily 10:32

That's like the fascia and stuff.

Deb 10:33

The fascia, yeah. So you have that fascia called the linea alba. And from a lot of excess force forward, then you can start to thin and can lose some of the elasticity. And I was also technically an older mom. I was 37 at the time. So collagen's changing, genetics. So that can also be part of diastasis. But with all that forceful pushing, that worsened diastasis and also put a lot of strain on my already tight pelvic floor. Because remember,

Diastasis, Pelvic Floor, And Hypermobility

Deb 11:00

I was a dancer, I was a yogi. And I also have a very, very flexible body. And those with a flexible body tend to have more tension in the pelvic floor because the body may have such laxity and not necessarily strong glutes and hamstrings, that the pelvic floor is like, oh, I guess I better pick up the slack and–

Emily 11:18

Like I'm holding this all together.

Deb 11:20

Yeah, I think of it's like my role in the house, like the mom, I'm like, I'm holding it all together. That's like my pelvic floor. I'm holding it all together.

Dani 11:26

Like the pelvic floor of the family. I don't know. Never mind. This is so weird.

Emily 11:29

I like that.

Dani 11:30

Halloween costume idea. We're just holding it all together. I'm a pel- I'm a pelvic- Anyway, never mind. All right.

Deb 11:37

And I also did a ton of cycling. I love being on a bike. I love being on an outdoor bike. I love being on a spin bike. So also my psoas was super, super tight.

Emily 11:46

Oh God.

Deb 11:47

When you look at the whole picture, you're like, of course it was a really hard birth. And as much as it was physically traumatic for my body, like I will say my pelvic floor is like 95% back to where it was. Um, there's still about 5% that's a little cranky at times.

Emily 12:05

That's pretty good.

Deb 12:07

Yeah, I worked really, really hard on that. But it gave me a lot to try to unpack. And not just for myself, but I thought, here I was already teaching prenatal yoga. I've had this studio at that point for like nine and a half years. And if I had such a challenging birth, I gotta look back at what I'm doing and what's going on. So I worked with a PT for rehab and then also just looking at like what happened? Why didn't anybody, my midwife, my doula, nobody was like, Deb, get off the spin bike. Why don't you do some PT? It wasn't as talked about back then.

Dani 12:39

Yeah.

Deb 12:40

And so I wanted to understand what happened. And so that really changed how I taught yoga. I wanted to look at we need to make sure we're not just tightening things. We need to make sure things are balanced. The pelvic floor is springy, the psoas is supple, the pelvis is well balanced. So for the good, it changed how I taught, and which then means thousands of yoga students from my studio have had that gift. I wish I didn't have to necessarily go through as much first person, but I did.

Emily 13:11

Sometimes we learn best by doing though. So there is that, you know?

Deb 13:15

But it really changed the trajectory. And I was already into physicality and movement and anatomy, but it made me dive even more into understanding. And so in hindsight, it was a gift because it propelled me into

Rethinking Training And Teaching

Deb 13:30

understanding and I'm hoping better supporting folks. And the rehab in itself, again, it was challenging, but it also was kind of exciting to then learn and watch and then impart that. Now I have to say, fast forward to baby number two, I did everything so differently. I remember being like six weeks pregnant. I was already like laying on my side. My husband's like, you could be on your back. I'm like, I'm setting everything up as best as possible. Like I didn't get on a spin bike that whole time. Actually, not true. I was riding a bicycle in like December in New York City, and I was like seven months pregnant. He took it away. He's like, this is not appropriate. Like I was riding in like the snow. He's like, let's not do that. All right, so it's on a regular bike, but probably not the smartest.

Emily 14:14

Biking because you're going somewhere is very different from biking in a spin class. Like the objective is you're not like, okay, we're standing for the next couple.

Deb 14:24

Yeah.

Emily 14:24

You're just like going to the grocery store or whatever.

Deb 14:26

I was going from my apartment down, yeah, Riverside Drive to my yoga studio on the Upper West Side. So, yes, with traffic and ice.

Dani 14:34

Yeah.

Deb 14:35

I think he might have had the best intentions, so. But I approached the birth so differently. I really thought about okay, what's going on with my body? What's going on with my pelvis, my pelvic floor? And we know statistically, second births are quicker, but six minutes of pushing, like six minutes of pushing.

Dani 14:54

Okay, Deb, we're gonna have to bleep that up because people might get angry. There might be a riot on the internet if people hear that.

Emily 15:00

That's good stuff.

Dani 15:01

I mean, to be fair, 42 hours for baby number one plus five-

Deb 15:05

That's including the five hours, yeah.

Dani 15:07

Including five hours of pushing. We'll give you the six minutes, like whatever.

Emily 15:12

Well earned.

Deb 15:13

Yeah. And I think her whole birth, like I started

Faster Second Birth And New Strategy

Deb 15:15

to feel it in the morning, but I was like really in contractions, maybe like 1:30-2:00, and then she was born a little after six. Like,

Dani 15:21

Yeah.

Deb 15:21

I worked for that. Like, I worked for that.

Dani 15:26

Well, we love that for you.

Deb 15:28

Thank you.

Dani 15:28

Yes.

Emily 15:30

Okay, so both times though, you did sort of have a fitness mindset. Like you were thinking about like, how am I staying healthy? How am I keeping myself moving? But like there was a huge difference in the types of movement that you were doing. And that was to keep the psoas from tightening.

Dani 15:49

Supple, I believe, is what she said. Supple.

Emily 15:51

No, no, pelvic floor.

Dani 15:53

No, supple psoas. I wrote it down.

Emily 15:55

Oh, supple psoas.

Dani 15:57

Balanced body, supple psoas.

Deb 15:58

That is totally right. Supple psoas, responsive pelvic floor. I think of the pelvic floor kind of like a trampoline. And I also worked with a PT because I have a lot of hypermobility. So I wanted to make sure my pelvis was in better alignment than the first time where my SI joint was kind of a hot mess the whole time.

Dani 16:16

Mm-hmm.

Emily 16:16

Okay, so if you're in like an up push-up position and you lock your elbows, I know you don't ever lock your elbows because that's like a yoga no-no. But if you were to lock your elbows, do they hyperextend?

Deb 16:28

Yeah, I mean like everything hyperextends, like even the thumbs, you know, like you know, you see people like those weird thumbs, like-

Emily 16:35

Like it's like pointing backwards? Yeah.

Deb 16:37

And like my knees and my elbow, yeah. Very, very flexible. Which it was funny because everyone thought that was such a good thing. And then as I learned more about the body, I'm like, those are the people that tend to have a lot of aches and pains, and also really tight pelvic floor.

Emily 16:50

Yeah.

Dani 16:50

Yeah. For everybody listening, Deb's not even holding her head up straight. No, I'm just kidding.

Deb 16:54

Am I not? I might not be. I'm like, is my head tilted?

Dani 16:57

I'm joking.

Emily 16:58

It's asynclitic, as it were.

Dani 17:00

Yeah. Yeah.

Emily 17:01

A lil asynclitic.

Dani 17:02

There we go.

Emily 17:03

It's fine. Okay. So this second baby. Really, when you average it out, you just had an average birth. That's what you had.

Dani 17:12

No, let her have it. Let her have it. Anyway, I love how the experience that you had, like, really has informed

Postpartum Leaks Are Common Not “Normal”

Dani 17:20

the way that the yoga center has provided like a range of types of supports for folks that come in. It's not just a yoga class.

Deb 17:28

No.

Dani 17:28

Like you know that taking care of your body and like doing what you can to be conscious of like all the areas that are affected by being pregnant and postpartum are taken care of, but also you're providing space for, you know, other kinds of connections and resources and stuff. And we love that. And you know what else we haven't mentioned, Deb?

Deb 17:45

Yes?

Dani 17:45

For all of our listeners, Deb is a seasoned podcaster. So you also have tons of episodes where you cover all kinds of topics.

Emily 17:54

Related to this period of time.

Dani 17:56

You started in 2016 or...?

Deb 18:00

I think so. I was still living in the city and I've been out here for, oh my goodness, almost 10 years.

Dani 18:06

Still in New York? We do not need to talk about where you live.

Deb 18:08

Oh, yeah, I live in New Jersey. I don't care.

Dani 18:11

Okay. Okay.

Deb 18:12

I remember my first couple podcasts. Like, we knew nothing about– like what's a little pop screen or whatever. Like we put a microphone on a bed and like two of us were like speaking probably too far away. Like it was kind of a hot mess. But yeah, I started it. Actually, my friend Lily was like, you should do a podcast. I'm like, I don't even know what that is. But I do that and I love it because as we talked about, I love learning. And I take childbirth education into so much of the yoga classes. But again, this gives me an opportunity to just have a conversation, like an interesting conversation. And usually I pick topics that I'm really interested in learning about because I want to learn about them and then I can share it. So yeah, podcasting has been really fun. I think we have over 400 episodes.

Dani 18:58

Yeah, I looked you up on the internet and I was very impressed. I'm like, oh, okay. We should ask Deb for hot tips on podcasting.

Emily 19:11

Okay. I think we have a sense of like how you sought help after the birth because you knew that your body didn't feel right.

Deb 19:21

Well, I was peeing myself. That was a very-

Dani 19:22

Relatable.

Deb 19:25

And I'd say that. And it's funny I say that on a podcast, but I say it because I

Identity, Healing, And Realistic Recovery

Deb 19:30

want people to know it happens. And I don't want it to be normalized. It happens, it's common, but people should seek help. This came up in conversation with a student yesterday where she's like, I'm peeing myself. I'm like, I did too. Let's talk about it. Yeah. She's like, my doctor just said that's so normal because I had a baby. I said, it's common, but it's not normal. So let's talk about your next steps.

Emily 19:55

Right. Like there are options for where to go from here.

Deb 19:59

And it also, I just remember, and I can relate to the students that I still see in class, that it can really feel like it's dampering your enjoyment of postpartum, at least it did for me.

Dani 20:10

Yeah.

Deb 20:10

I felt like my life was not quite what I thought it would be because I ended up with pelvic organ prolapse. So I had to see a urogynecologist and deal with that. And it really affected the kind of like the life quality.

Dani 20:24

Oh, yeah. I mean, if you were a runner or a jogger before.

Deb 20:28

Which I never. Yeah.

Dani 20:30

Okay. Well, I was in, you know, my early life, but then I just remember asking my doctor, am I like ever going to be able to run like past a mile and a quarter without needing to have, you know, a pad in my underwear? You know what I'm saying? Like, am I ever gonna be able to jump on a trampoline or my kids always gonna make fun of me? Tell me, tell me it gets better. I didn't even know that there were public floor physical therapists or there were things to do to help my body. So I love that you're having these conversations.

Deb 20:58

I want people to know they have options. And then also, even though I had been working with the perinatal community for almost 10 years at that point, I was a little surprised how hard it was to recover, not just because of my pelvic floor issues. Again, I knew mentally because I saw people with their babies and I saw the strain, but it gave me a different

Collaborating With Clinicians And PSI

Deb 21:20

compassion to understand like the back pain and the neck pain and just the overwhelm. And so we try to also address that in our classes, just hold space that it is a really challenging period. It's not like a bounce back situation that we sometimes see in social media.

Dani 21:37

That's like a total fallacy. Like you're becoming a new version of yourself. You're not bouncing back to pre baby.

Emily 21:44

That doesn't exist anymore, is really what it is.

Dani 21:46

Yeah. Yeah.

Deb 21:47

It really doesn't. And like identity change and relationship change. There's just so much happening. It's such a kind of like a mud pit. Like it's just so deep and kind of messy and dirty.

Emily 21:57

Exactly. Okay, so how did you find out about PSI in the course of all of this? How did we...

Deb 22:05

How did we connect?

Dani 22:06

Were we in the mud pit with you? What's happening?

Deb 22:10

No, because my kids are 14 and 11. So Dr. Jessica Vernon.

Dani 22:16

Hey.

Deb 22:17

I know, love her. So the funny thing was, I'm kind of a jerk. She tried to reach out to me.

Dani 22:22

You're not a jerk. Stop. Okay, we're debunking it. It's official. Deb Flaschenberg is not a jerk.

Deb 22:29

Okay. So she reached out to me about three years ago to connect. And I somehow ignored that or didn't see it.

Emily 22:37

Or you were busy.

Dani 22:38

Like maybe life happened.

Deb 22:39

So then I saw her. I've been doing some workshops with Oula where I'll do like some online classes. And then I happened to see she was part of a panel discussion. And I liked what she was talking about. So I looked her up and I'm like, I like this person.

Dani 22:57

She's lovely.

Deb 22:58

Yeah. And I looked at her social media and I'm like, oh, I agree. I like her. Then I looked, she had a book. And so I reached out to her to see if she'd want to be on my podcast. And she's like, oh, I reached out to you years ago. And so I looked at it. I'm like–

Dani 23:13

Thought you didn't want to talk to me. This is embarrassing.

Deb 23:16

And so then she and I connected. And what was so nice is, you know, especially because she is an OBGYN and she's like, I love what you do at Prenatal Yoga Center. I support. I'm like, oh, can I get that like in writing somewhere?

Dani 23:29

Uh-huh.

Deb 23:29

Doctor approved. And so then she came on.

Dani 23:32

It feels good to know. Yeah.

Deb 23:34

Very good. So she came on to do a podcast. And then we just hit it off really well. Like, I just like talking to her. So then I asked her, because this is a topic that probably no one else is interested except me. I wanted to do another podcast about the umbilical cord and the placenta because I thought that was interesting.

Dani 23:52

Like an episode or a whole podcast?

Deb 23:54

Just an episode.

Dani 23:55

Okay.

Deb 23:56

About the placenta because we talk, I mean, it comes up in class

Informed Consent And Advocacy In Class

Deb 24:00

placenta previa or partial previa or cord anomalies. You know, I just think that's really interesting.

Dani 24:06

Let's deep dive.

Deb 24:07

Let's deep dive and like-

Deb 24:09

Let's do it. Years ago, I wrote this blog about the cord around the neck, nuchal cord. And you know, interesting, like a third of babies are born with that. My daughter was born with that. And it happens, you know, most of the time it's totally fine. Every now and then it can be a problem. And then what, you know, I talked about this in class recently. We're not breathing through our mouths yet in utero it's through the umbilical cord. So what happens if it should be overly tight is it can compress. It's so, so, so, so, so rare.

Dani 24:36

And that happens, yeah.

Deb 24:37

Yeah. And so I got a lot of hate mail for that one blog. And so I'm like, oh, I'm like, Jessica, let's talk about it. She's like, let's talk about it. So we talked about that.

Dani 24:46

So is that an episode on your podcast?

Deb 24:48

Yeah, comes out in a couple weeks.

Dani 24:51

Oh, cool. Okay, I'm gonna write a note here so that we can drop a link in the show notes.

Deb 24:56

I have another one I have to throw her way. I want to do one on shoulder dystocia.

Dani 25:00

Oh, Jessica, call Deb.

Deb 25:02

Jessica! But and then she was so nice because she had said, Oh, why don't we, you know, get together and maybe do a presentation at a conference. I'm like, oh, let's do that. It just feels good like when you connect with somebody that you're like-minded but have two different disciplines. Like, I do not try to step into the role of the care provider. I know my scope, and yet I also offer something that she supports. So it's just nice to find really strong, wonderful collaboration. So that is how I know Jessica, and that is how I found you guys.

Dani 25:33

Deb, thank you for connecting all those dots for us. I think that that is something that is important for all of us to do. We're advocating, we're supporting whether we're connecting parents with each other, with resources, with providers. We're all, you know, connecting those dots and it's such important work. So thank you. Yeah, I love actually also like knowing how we all are interconnected. I mean, we wouldn't have known you if you hadn't ignored Jessica for three- No, I'm joking, I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm kidding. No. If you hadn't met, you know, connected with Jessica. I don't know how long it would have taken us to get on each other's radar. So that's very cool.

Deb 26:10

Thank you.

Emily 26:10

I mean, we also know what you're already doing to support folks in the perinatal period because you've been doing it before you ever became a parent, which is not entirely an uncommon path, but it's definitely like different than the average. Were you like five and you were like, I want to work with pregnant people? Like, how did this become your-

Dani 26:30

I know the answer to this because I listened to the first episode of Deb's podcast. Oh my gosh, is it still on? No. No big deal. It's on the internet

From Yoga Mods To Birth Education

Dani 26:40

still, yep. Can confirm.

Deb 26:42

I was not really the maternal type. I really, really, oh my gosh, I'm having things flood back. I had a doll named Amy that I used to cut her hair and like paint her face and leave her in the yard, like overnight and in the rain. Like, I was not the maternal person that like– I know some kids like play with baby dolls and like, oh, I can't wait. I was not that person. I was kind of a tomboy. I had all boys in my neighborhood. I was like, why can't I have my shirt off too? Like...

Dani 27:10

You're like, Amy the doll will be fine overnight.

Emily 27:14

In the rain.

Dani 27:15

There's a hurricane forecasted. She's gonna be fine. I'll get her tomorrow.

Deb 27:20

Because that was like I was not a baby doll person. Like I was... and so like I hadn't even thought about kids. Like it just, yeah, it wasn't even on my radar. And then as I got into the world of prenatal yoga, which was really a back road to that too, because I was a yoga teacher. I was a dancer that became a yoga teacher, and I did this training. It's kind of my dirty yoga secret, Bikram Yoga, because he's a little bit of controversy. He's not a nice man in my experience.

Emily 27:45

No John Friend, though. You want to talk about controversial yoga? That was the discipline that I was taught in originally, so...

Deb 27:53

That also has some controversy around it. So, folks, go ahead and look them up. Bikram Choudhury, John Friend. Um, so-

Emily 28:00

Zero stars, don't recommend them.

Deb 28:02

No. And so I was doing Bikram and it's like this script that you have to follow. And it didn't give any ability to look at your students and be like, hey, what's going on with everyone? What do you want to work on?

Emily 28:14

Like, how's your alignment even, right?

Deb 28:16

So what we do, it's a little bit kind of off the beaten path that a lot of folks, when they go to regular yoga, are surprised. So we start every class with circle time, not Bikram, Prenatal Yoga Center. And I'm gonna ask everyone their name, how far along they are, their aches, pains, issues, requests. And I'm gonna hear what people tell me. And on the spot, I'm gonna create the class based on what they tell me because that's what they're

Training At The Farm And Doula Work

Deb 28:40

there for, in my opinion. I want to give them the class they're asking for. Like if they tell me my upper back, neck, shoulders are a hot mess, and I'm like, oh, I was gonna work on squatting. Like, that's not really...

Dani 28:53

I'm just thinking of uh, you know, if someone were to go into therapy and there is something really pressing going on for them that week, and they weren't gonna see their therapist for the next like week or two, and they said, well, I really want to talk about those daddy issues this week, but really you need to talk about your 15-year-old who's a whole vibe and cramping your style, like telling people what they need, like not a good plan. That's awesome, that's great.

Deb 29:19

So, yeah, so it's a very different style. So going back to Bikram, where you can't, like you're supposed to follow this monologue. And I just was not loving it. And so I remember between classes, I was talking to some of the other teachers at the desk, and they're like, have you thought about prenatal yoga? I'm like, I have not. And I mentioned it to my mom who did marketing at the time, and she was just like, absolutely, people spend money on their weddings and their pregnancy. And she's like, when they're pregnant, they're gonna take care of themselves.

Dani 29:47

Yeah.

Deb 29:47

I was like 27, and I'm like, babies? What? If you're a performer, you're not pregnant, usually. So I'm like, okay. And so I found a training and I went out and I just kind of started. But I kind of fell into it, and then I fell into the passion of it, honestly, from one of my students. I don't remember when I did the podcast what I said, but this might be it. That it's probably highly illegal what she had me do.

Dani 30:17

I know.

Deb 30:17

You know? So she told everyone I was a med student. She put me in scrubs, and I participated in births. I helped deliver a placenta. My hands were gloved. She's like, put your hands here and just gently pull on the cord. I'm like, now I'm like, please don't pull on the cord.

Dani 30:33

We're not naming names.

Deb 30:34

We're not naming names or even the institution. Uh...

Dani 30:37

It might have not even happened. It might have just been a dream.

Deb 30:41

And so, like, now I know, like, don't pull on the cord, don't pull on the placenta.

Dani 30:44

Yeah.

Deb 30:44

Again, I'm like, oh, and hindsight, I'm like, was there informed consent? Like, and then I like scrubbed in for a C-section. I saw a twin vaginal birth. They actually were like taking names down, and they were like Dr. Flashenberg. I'm like, no, no, no, no, erase. I shouldn't be here.

Dani 30:58

And then you're like, actually, it does sound like kind of nice. It has a it has a ring to it.

Deb 31:04

So I

Media, Learning, And Podcasting

Deb 31:05

saw this one birth that was just honestly traumatizing for the person giving birth and her partner and the baby. And it was from that that I'm like, okay, again, like I've had these moments of catapulting change. One of it was my own birth, but one of it was this, like seeing how this person was treated in the hospital made me realize that up to that point, and this is maybe a year into me teaching prenatal yoga, I was just teaching modifications. I was not teaching the education and what informed consent meant and advocating for yourself. I was just teaching pregnancy modifications.

Emily 31:40

Right. You're like, we're gonna do a forward fold, but you have to take your legs wider when you're down. Right, right, right.

Deb 31:46

But I wasn't talking about like you have options in birthing positions. Have you talked to your care provider about this? Or you don't have to have a student be involved. Like I just wasn't talking, we didn't talk about pushing positions and how to breathe, like coping skills. And so that was just a huge, exciting change. And that's when I decided to become a doula. Like I literally left that day and I'm like, I'll be a doula.

Dani 32:06

Well, this is my life now.

Deb 32:08

Yeah, I'm like, and now childbirth education. I'll go to the farm. Like I just piled it on.

Emily 32:12

Wait, you went to the farm, like Ina May Gaskin's farm?

Deb 32:16

I went to the farm. I know.

Dani 32:18

I don't even know what you're- what? I'm from out of town. Tell me about the farm. What? Went to the farm. Taking notes, tell me more about the farm.

Deb 32:30

Oh, there's so much to tell. So there's a midwife, Ina May Gaskin. She's written multiple books. I think she started with Spiritual Midwifery. And then the second one after Spiritual Midwifery was, I think, Ina May's Guide to Childbirth. And I think she wrote a breastfeeding book, but she's this very hippie-dippy midwife that created a midwifery center in Tennessee, in like the rural part of Tennessee, which I had never been to. I hadn't really been deep in the South. And so they were doing a midwifery assistant program. And I thought, sure, let's go do that.

Dani 33:03

I haven't learned about that yet.

Parenting Boundaries And Self-Regulation

Dani 33:05

I'm going. You're a lifelong learner, Deb. It's okay.

Deb 33:08

So I went down to the farm and I did this midwifery assistant program. And it was really fascinating. And the funny thing was, like, a few days after I came back from that, I was on a birth and it was a precipitous birth. And she was on her bathroom floor crowning. And I'm like, I know how to support the perineum.

Dani 33:26

For people who don't know, what is a precipitous birth?

Deb 33:28

A very, very fast birth. So under three hours. So between her calling me and me arriving was maybe half an hour. And at that point, her water had broken and she was on her bathroom floor. So we had called, like EMT was on their way. She happened to live across the street from Lennox Hill Hospital.

Emily 33:45

But what was she gonna do? Walk? Like...

Deb 33:48

No. So it just was um, it was kind of useful to have that information.

Dani 33:56

Yeah.

Deb 33:56

Yeah. That's my story.

Dani 33:58

Wow.

Emily 33:59

Very cool.

Dani 34:00

Now I know about the farm.

Emily 34:01

Ina May Gaskin isn't perfect. I just I want to acknowledge she is also not a perfect human, you know. Little opportunities for growth, please and thank you.

Deb 34:10

I will say we actually took her book out of our teacher training curriculum because of opportunities for learning and some of the things that she has represented and stood for. That said, I also do think there's some really good learning opportunities in her book. Like I do think there's value, but I do want to acknowledge and thank you, Emily, for sharing that. I don't even know how involved she's in the farm anymore. This was 18 years ago I went down there.

Emily 34:36

Yeah. I mean, I was looking at going to the farm. I had a baby that wouldn't flip, refused to just head towards the exit, you know? And I was like, I'm not having another C-section. And so I started looking at options. And this, you know, I mean, this was like 15 years ago. So this was pre-challenging some of her stances and then her unwillingness to evolve. Because there's so many other folks, like there are other folks we can listen to, you know?

Dani 35:06

And I also want to mention, I thought, if I'm remembering correctly, you have a connection with DONA. You did, did you do some training with DONA?

Deb 35:14

I did.

Radical Self-Care And Sleep Rituals

Dani 35:15

We love DONA. We've got lots of friends there.

Deb 35:16

That's where my Doula certification is through DONA. Yeah. I interviewed Penny Simkin for my podcast. Oh my gosh. I was such a dork with her. I'm like, you're like my John Lennon. I think I literally said that to her.

Dani 35:29

Oh well, we didn't get that, but it's okay. It's totally fine. Whatever.

Deb 35:33

Well, she died. But-

Dani 35:34

Oh, okay. Well, we're the new John Lennon. Hey. I'm just kidding. Or not. Never mind. All right. Anyway, cool. So she was on your podcast.

Deb 35:44

Yes.

Dani 35:44

Oh, that's exciting. You were just beside yourself. Were you able to ask all the questions, or were you just–

Deb 35:50

No, I pulled it together. I usually have a list of questions ahead of time, so I pulled it together. But yeah, so I'm connected with DONA. I think I let my, since I'm not actively participating in births, I did let that certification drop. But yeah, still very strong in the Lamaze world.

Dani 36:05

Awesome. I was wondering, is there anything that we haven't touched on that we want to touch on before we jump into the lightning round? No wrong answers. Emily, do you have any other burning questions?

Emily 36:17

No, I'm ready for a slow lightning round per our usual.

Dani 36:22

It's not a fast lightning round, Deb, just full disclosure.

Deb 36:26

Okay.

Dani 36:26

Okay. Well, if we're ready, let's do it. Deb, besides this podcast, obviously, uh, do you have another favorite podcast that you would like to plug? One or two, maybe. Doesn't have to be perinatal mental health or perinatal anything related. It could be-

Deb 36:42

Could it be my own? Can I do it?

Dani 36:44

You can totally do your own. Half the people are into murder podcasts, which scare the heck out of me, but that's just not about me, so.

Deb 36:51

For those out there, listen to Yoga | Birth | Babies, okay. But I listen to The Daily. I'm such an NPR nerd. So I listen to the daily, I check all those out, like fresh air, um, pop culture, happy hour. Like I go through that. And then if I'm watching a show that has a podcast, like I was super into The Gilded Age. So I would listen to like the follow-up podcasts from that, so.

Dani 37:15

Like they'd watch an episode and then discuss?

Deb 37:19

Yeah, but there was like- they called it like the official HBO podcast. So they actually had like the actors and the directors and like costume designers, so.

Emily 37:27

I love that.

Deb 37:28

I love behind the scenes things. But yeah,

Progressive Relaxation Tool

Deb 37:30

also like, oh, there was a new podcast, The Retrievals. That was really interesting as well. That was about egg retrieval and like C-sections.

Dani 37:38

Oh.

Deb 37:38

I just gave you like 10.

Dani 37:39

Yeah, these show notes are gonna be...

Emily 37:42

Lit.

Dani 37:42

Yeah, as it were. Like, holy cow. Great suggestions. The Retrievals.

Emily 37:48

Okay, are you binge watching anything that I should add to my, like, queue?

Dani 37:53

Or listening to, some people are like avid book listeners.

Emily 37:57

Like, what happens when I finish Discovery Witches, which was also recommended on this pod? What do I do next?

Deb 38:05

All right, so my husband laughs at me for this because I binge. Like, if I'm going to watch something, I like will not go to bed. So I really make myself not do that too often because I know my habits.

Emily 38:20

You're like, I'm not sleeping tonight.

Deb 38:21

Well, I kind of recycle certain things. Like I'll watch things over and over. So I just did go on a binge of- this is gonna make me sound like such an idiot. Like...

Dani 38:30

No, not an idiot.

Deb 38:31

The Great British Bake Show.

Dani 38:33

That's so good.

Emily 38:35

It's wholesome.

Dani 38:36

First of all, you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Emily 38:39

Who doesn't like snacks?

Dani 38:41

Yeah. Also, great snack suggestions. Third, people are really kind to each other on that show.

Deb 38:47

They're so nice.

Dani 38:49

I need that. Like, you know, whether it's on social media or on TV, I need something where I'm witnessing people be like kind to each other.

Deb 38:58

And I also think Noel Fielding is hilarious. And I was a goth in high school, so I find him kind of sexy. So that's another topic.

Dani 39:07

Hey.

Emily 39:07

Interesting.

Dani 39:09

What's said here stays here. Okay.

Emily 39:11

No, it doesn't.

Deb 39:12

And then I also I've watched Ted Lasso like too many times. But like that's also another of my feel

Time Machine Advice To Postpartum Self

Deb 39:20

good. So I'm not letting myself like everyone's like, oh, you gotta watch Hacks. Like, there's so many things I want to watch, but like even if I'm reading a book, I want to like stay up. Even if I have like 200 more pages, I have to like pull myself away from it, so.

Dani 39:34

That's a healthy boundary. You are saving yourself from yourself. It's okay. You know yourself.

Emily 39:39

I'm gonna make a recommendation to you. The Great Pottery Throwdown is like pottery making version of Great British Baking Show.

Deb 39:48

Oh, I would like that.

Dani 39:50

No snack suggestions though. So if that's a deal breaker.

Emily 39:53

Lots of glazes though.

Deb 39:55

Okay, I'll check that out.

Dani 39:57

Okay. Deb, do you have any like great parenting hacks you'd like to share with us?

Emily 40:01

This could be for young kids or old kids.

Dani 40:03

Not every hack works on every kid, but what's working for you right now?

Deb 40:07

All right. So one of the hacks that I do, and it's gonna sound just so basic, is that when I'm getting really irritated and frustrated, I will just take a few moments and walk away and not immediately answer them because I will probably snap at them or yell at them. So it's like I give myself a little timeout. And I've also learned that I don't have to answer them immediately if I'm like in the bathroom. They could be yelling. I'm like, I'm taking a minute for myself. You can figure things out.

Dani 40:42

As long as this house is not on fire, I think everybody's gonna be okay.

Deb 40:47

Yeah. So this is not my easiest because I tend to be very reactive, but trying not to be reactive has been very helpful. So, like just taking a beat and taking a breath.

Dani 40:59

Do you announce?

Hydration Habits And Ayurveda

Emily 41:00

That was my next question. How do you tell them that you're putting yourself in timeout?

Dani 41:04

Do you just walk away silently or?

Deb 41:06

Sometimes I walk away and sometimes I say, I need a minute.

Dani 41:10

That's good.

Deb 41:11

Yeah, I need a minute.

Dani 41:12

Because that's a cue for your kids. Like, oh yeah. She definitely needs a minute. Okay, I need to back off.

Emily 41:19

Like it's advantageous for him or her to give you, for them to give you that minute.

Dani 41:24

Also, it's good for you to say that out loud and confirm for yourself. Oh, right, I really do need a minute right now, instead of not saying anything. And yeah, it just helps you recognize what's going on for you.

Deb 41:34

Yeah. So that just helps me de-escalate because if I'm really getting fiery and worked up, it's not going to go well. Especially if I get too far, like, especially if like someone wakes me up or something. Like...

Emily 41:47

Then you're like, oh yeah? Just me? I don't know.

Dani 41:52

Oh yeah.

Emily 41:53

Let's go. Okay. All right. What is one way that you are going to show yourself some radical love today? This is like more than self-care.

Dani 42:04

I mean, I think everything we can do for ourselves is radical because we don't always spend the time on ourselves, so.

Emily 42:10

Yes.

Deb 42:11

I don't know. Maybe this is self-care, but I pretty much tell them after, it used to be 8:30, but now it's nine because they're just getting older and require more. But I'm like, I am getting in bed. I will talk to you from bed, and I'm going to be usually be reading or watching something. And so that is my way of taking care of myself.

Dani 42:29

Uh-huh.

Deb 42:30

I will have them play cards with me. Sometimes my kids love playing cards, and I'm like, we will do it from my bed. And so I just set that boundary of like, I'm not getting out of bed. If I do, it's because I want to, not because I need to do something for you. So that is my way of showing love for myself, of setting that boundary.

Emily 42:49

You're also sort of, it's like a ritual. You've built in like this is what I do before going to bed. Yeah. Do you sleep well? I need to try this. Like...

Deb 42:58

Um, do I

How To Connect With Deb

Deb 43:00

sleep well? I fall asleep really well, but I do tend to wake up at like 3:30-ish and then I eventually fall back asleep.

Emily 43:08

Ugh. Why do our bodies do this?

Deb 43:10

Because we're getting older. At least I'll speak for myself.

Emily 43:14

I know. I wake up like drenched in sweat now, and I'm like...

Deb 43:18

Yeah.

Dani 43:19

Is this my life?

Emily 43:20

It's just rude. I probably need to like do some like hormone replacement shenanigans.

Deb 43:26

That's another conversation we can have. But yeah, I'll do sometimes meditations at night if I wake up to fall back asleep. But then I wake up at a very odd time, 5:18. Like you have an alarm set for that? I do. Because I like to exercise in the morning.

Dani 43:39

Oh.

Deb 43:40

So I have like a little ritual of coming downstairs, making coffee, and then going down to exercise. So that's my little thing.

Dani 43:47

That is cool.

Emily 43:48

Okay, operating outside of our lightning round. This is how it always ends up so long. But I want to know like, what is the one to two minute explanation of that– I've woken up in the middle of the night– meditation that you do. Like what do you walk yourself through? Put this tool in everyone's toolbox, you know?

Deb 44:07

So it's funny. It's actually what I teach in prenatal yoga. I do something called progressive relaxation.

Dani 44:13

Oh.

Deb 44:14

I call it the talk through because you're basically talking them through. And I do that in the beginning of every single class. Because I think repetition helps people. And if they hear in every class, I've had so many students be like, I heard your voice in my head and I talked through my body to relax in the contraction. I'm like, score. But I really, if I- but if I don't focus down through my body, my head is spinning. So I literally am like, inhale, exhale, relax the crown of your head, relax your forehead, relax your eyes. Like give the weight of your head to your pillow, relax your jaw. So I'm like going through and itemizing. Cause if I'm focusing on my body, my brain's not gonna have a place to spin. Because when I wake up in the middle of the night, my brain is spinning. I have so many thoughts,

Gratitude And Closing

Deb 45:00

and I need to stop that. So that's where I do a little talk through, and it usually works. And if it doesn't, then I have an album. It's kind of like drony sounding, and I'll just listen to that with the talk through. That drony tends to put me back to sleep.

Emily 45:14

Do you do like an inhale and then an exhale and then you move on to the next spot? Yeah, same, same.

Deb 45:20

And it's the exhale of like really relaxing down.

Dani 45:23

I'm gonna try that next time. I woke up at 2 :30 this morning.

Deb 45:26

Ugh.

Dani 45:26

And then I was awake for a while. It's okay. Now I have hot tips from Deb.

Emily 45:29

You're gonna be fine.

Dani 45:31

Yeah, I'm gonna be fine now. Hey, Emily, do you wanna ask Deb about a time machine real quick?

Emily 45:36

Oh my gosh. Okay. First of all, do you like time travel?

Dani 45:40

Follow up.

Deb 45:44

I need more information.

Emily 45:46

If you were gonna hop into a time machine, I am going to be a little bit strangely prescriptive this time. Okay.

Deb 45:53

Okay.

Emily 45:53

You are brand newly postpartum and you feel like your body is wrecked. You, today you has jumped into a time machine and gone back. What are you gonna tell that version of you that you need to hear in that moment?

Deb 46:10

Oh, okay. Chill out and don't overdo it. Because I did. I was like the worst postpartum person in the sense that what I would tell my students of like, oh, you really need to heal, you need to give your body a chance to heal. I did not do that. So if I could have told my postpartum body, all right, give yourself time to heal, don't try to start exercising again. You'll be okay. I had a really hard time not moving. And in just talking like walks, like I was already back at the gym like 10 days later, which is ridiculous because I would tell anyone not to do that. So I would tell myself, don't do that.

Dani 46:50

And then you're like, How did I get on this treadmill? I have no- I'm like rowing. How did I get here?

Deb 46:56

Why are there weights in my arms? Yeah. So I would tell myself not to do it, and that time actually will heal more than me trying to push myself.

Emily 47:06

Yes.

Dani 47:07

I feel that. Yeah, I think a lot of folks are just in a hurry to get like out of that discomfort postpartum, and that's a great thing to say to yourself. Okay. This is a very important question, Deb.

Deb 47:18

Okay.

Dani 47:19

Emily and I are a couple moms, and we need to like check on all of our people here and make sure that they're hydrated. How do you take your water? Are you like team bubbles, no bubbles, ice? Are you flavors? Okay. Oh, snazzy. Okay, so Deb's got this like yellow Stanley. We are not sponsored at all.

Deb 47:34

I've got a stainless steel straw.

Dani 47:37

Okay.

Deb 47:38

I literally have three different mugs near me. Like, I've got my tea, I've got my half decaf coffee, and I've got my huge Stanley. Because I find if I don't have a straw, I don't actually drink as much water.

Dani 47:51

I think that's true for me too.

Emily 47:53

Yep.

Dani 47:53

Is it because it's more fun?

Deb 47:55

It's easier. Like-

Emily 47:57

It's easier!

Deb 47:57

My husband thinks it's insane. He's like, seriously, it's harder to like tip it. And I'm like-

Dani 48:02

Yeah.

Deb 48:03

I'm like, I think it is.

Emily 48:06

There's something about I don't drink as much.

Dani 48:09

Uh-huh.

Emily 48:09

And you're like, well, but I'm not gonna use a plastic straw and kill all the sea turtles.

Deb 48:14

Stainless steel.

Emily 48:15

Stainless steel. Okay, but what's in your cup though? Is it like–

Deb 48:18

Room temperature.

Dani 48:19

Room temperature water. You know what?

Emily 48:21

Have you studied Ayurveda?

Deb 48:23

I actually did.

Emily 48:24

Yeah.

Dani 48:25

Actually, you're never gonna believe it. I did.

Emily 48:30

Actually, yes.

Dani 48:32

It's much easier for your body to process, right?

Deb 48:34

Yeah. My kids are obsessed with ice water, but-

Dani 48:37

Same. I don't care. Put ice in it. I need it.

Deb 48:39

Like we've had to put like their names on their own ice trays. They're like obsessed with not getting from each other's ice tray, but like-

Dani 48:46

Don't touch my ice?

Deb 48:47

Don't touch my ice. Oh, you used all your ice, and now you're using my ice. Like, so we've had to put names on ice trays, which is a new level of insanity, so.

Dani 48:57

You're like, this is my life. Who knew?

Emily 49:00

You're like, I need to buy an ice machine, is basically where we're at.

Deb 49:04

Yeah.

Emily 49:05

Okay. Are you a vata, a pitta, or a kapha? I want to get this is way better than...

Deb 49:10

Oh, me? What do you think?

Dani 49:12

Emily, what is that?

Emily 49:14

I will probably have a harder time explaining this than Deb because I have not studied it. But you basically have one of three types. So vata is...

Deb 49:26

More like airy, yeah.

Emily 49:27

Pitta is fire, and kapha is...

Deb 49:32

Earthy.

Emily 49:32

Yes. Okay. And so there are like characteristics of your body, like your skin is oily, or your skin is dry, or your skin is combination, or...

Deb 49:41

Body types, even like kava is maybe a little bit more earthy, and the people that I know that have been vata tend to be very narrow and kind of willowy, and pitta is kind of fiery. And so I haven't studied in a while. Back when I studied with this person, Shiva Rea, she was super into Ayurveda. And when I went to India with her, we went to an Ayurvedic center. So I did a little study of it there. So it's been many, many, many years. But yeah, you're right from what I remember. And then so I would say for me, when I've done like the Ayurvedic tests, I am rather pitta. I'm kind of that fiery. Yeah, which didn't really surprise me, um.

Emily 50:19

Do you like spicy food?

Deb 50:21

Yes and no, certain spice, but I also can have some like digestion issues. Like you know, so.

Emily 50:27

I'm like, I'm a pitta, but don't take away my spicy food. Like that's offensive.

Deb 50:32

Yeah. And then like, was it kapha or pitta? Is like I also can be very mucus-y you like allergies and stuff.

Emily 50:37

Kapha I think.

Dani 50:39

I have allergies.

Emily 50:40

Also, you have oily, oily skin.

Dani 50:43

Me?

Emily 50:43

You might be a kapha.

Dani 50:45

I do?

Emily 50:45

Mm-hmm.

Dani 50:46

Oh, okay, well.

Emily 50:47

Oilier than mine, and I'm a pitta, so I don't know. I'm just guessing. I'm diagnosing people with not an illness right now. I don't I don't know. It's like a state of being. It's it's like uh Myers Brigg of your sort of body and disposition and how you are in the world.

Deb 51:06

Yes. That's a great way of describing it.

Dani 51:08

Well, I'll take a quiz online, I guess. I don't know.

Emily 51:11

Yeah.

Dani 51:12

Well, Deb. If anything resonated with folks today, we covered a lot.

Emily 51:16

We did.

Dani 51:17

And they might be interested in connecting with you. How could they do that?

Deb 51:23

They can find me everywhere. Um everywhere. Prenatalyogacenter.com is the website. All of our social media is Prenatal Yoga Center. The podcast is Yoga | Birth | Babies. But really, everyone can find me on our website. Yeah, you can reach me from there. I actually really love hearing from people, questions, or sometimes people have ideas for the podcast, whatever. So yeah.

Dani 51:48

Yeah.

Deb 51:48

Prenatalyogacenter.com.

Dani 51:50

Awesome. We will put a link to that in the show notes so people can find you. The studio is, remind everybody, where in New York City?

Deb 51:57

We are on the Upper West Side in New York City, and we have online classes. So people can find us anytime online. I think we offer online classes every single day, seven days a week.

Dani 52:08

That's so cool. So you don't actually need to be in the city.

Deb 52:11

No, it's kind of fantastic. We just finished teacher training and we had a student from South Korea and another one from Dubai.

Dani 52:18

Wow.

Deb 52:18

I know. Seriously, commitment.

Emily 52:20

The time change. Oh my god.

Deb 52:22

I know.

Emily 52:23

They're like, hello from the middle of the night. Wow.

Deb 52:26

Kind of. We did have one woman who did it from Australia, but I was like, it's in the middle of the night for you? She's like, it is.

Dani 52:31

Like, hello tomorrow.

Deb 52:33

Yeah.

Emily 52:34

Time travel is real.

Deb 52:37

Yeah. Time travel is real. So people can find us really anytime anywhere.

Dani 52:42

Okay. Great. We'll put links to that in the show notes so people can find you and reach out to you. Stop by and say hey.

Deb 52:48

I'd love that.

Dani 52:49

Tell them Dani and Emily sent you. Emily, would you like to take us out?

Emily 52:54

I would love to. Deb, this was wonderful. Yoga has been such an important part of my life since I was in high school, and I've sort of gone back in and out over and over again. And I think your commitment to being embodied and helping other people be embodied throughout this change, this like epic change that we go through to become parents is such a gift. So thank you for coming to talk about it.

Deb 53:20

Thank you. I really had fun. Thank you so much.

Dani 53:24

Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time, and well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.