I AM ONE Podcast by Postpartum Support International

ELIZABETH LILLEY: Isolation, Invisible Struggles & the Signs Nobody Taught Us to See

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On today’s episode, we’re sitting down with Elizabeth Lilley, a doula, perinatal mental health advocate, and the manager of PSI’s Legal Justice Program. Elizabeth shares openly about her own journey into motherhood, her experience navigating a cross-country move away from her existing system, and how those personal experiences helped shape the work she does today. We’ll also talk about Elizabeth’s professional path, including her work in legal justice, her dedication to supporting families in the perinatal period, and what it looks like to balance caring for others while also making space for your own healing, boundaries, and self-care. This conversation touches on motherhood, mental health, advocacy, support, and the ways our personal and professional lives can deeply intersect. We were honored to sit down and record this conversation. So, without further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend, Elizabeth.

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Dani:

Welcome to the I Am One podcast. On today's episode, we're sitting down with Elizabeth Lilley, a doula, perinatal mental health advocate, and the manager of PSI's Legal Justice Program. Elizabeth shares openly about her own journey into motherhood, her experience navigating a cross-country move away from her existing support system, and how those personal experiences helped shape the work that she does today. We'll also talk about Elizabeth's professional path, including her work in legal justice, her dedication to supporting families in the perinatal period, and what it looks like to balance caring for others while also making space for your own healing and boundaries and self-care. This conversation touches on motherhood, mental health, advocacy support, and the ways that our personal and professional lives can deeply intersect. We were honored to sit down and record this conversation. So without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend, Elizabeth. Elizabeth, welcome to the podcast studio. Welcome back to the podcast studio. We were just here with you the other day recording a very exciting episode about the Legal Justice Program, but today we're here to talk about your lived experience, some feelings perhaps. We are just really excited to be here with you. So thank you so much for coming back.

Elizabeth:

Thank you for having me. Always a fun time.

Dani:

Now, I've already let the cat out of the bag and told everybody what your name is, but could you give us a little bit more of an introduction to who you are?

Elizabeth:

My name is Elizabeth Lilley. I am the Legal Justice Program Manager for PSI. I am also a birth doula and lactation counselor. so we're all about mom over here.

Dani:

That's like a triple threat. Very cool.

Emily:

So you got like any kids?

Elizabeth:

I do. I'm sorry. Like you want details, details.

Emily:

Like whatever level of geography you want to share. If you want to be like, don't call me, I'm on planet Earth, that's fine. That's all we need to know.

Elizabeth:

I am on planet Earth, I think, most days. Yes, I do. I have two boys and I've got, yeah, two angel babies. And let's see, what else? Got a husband and a cat. She is the most spoiled of the bunch.

Dani:

Oh. Is she the oldest?

Elizabeth:

She is the oldest.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

Yes, she is 12, I know.

Dani:

Oh, cats can live for a long time, can't they? I mean, I'm a dog person because I'm allergic to cats, but this isn't my episode. I'm kind of like taking us down a rabbit hole.

Emily:

You're like, let's talk pets.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, yeah.

Dani:

But rumor has it that cats live a long time.

Elizabeth:

You know, I hope so. They've been telling me she's a senior since she was like seven. And I'm like, no, she's not because she still like jumps. And like this morning, she spent five minutes chasing her tail. So, you know, I'm like, that's not senior behavior.

Emily:

Is this like that fake news, like advanced maternal age that they start throwing around like the minute that you're more than 25.

Elizabeth:

And that's probably it because they're like, oh, let's do these tests. We should do these tests. And that's probably it.

Dani:

That's exactly what I was thinking. Like you hit 35 and they're like, welcome to the clinic. You're geriatric now. And you're like, but I can jump. I can chase.

Emily:

I can still chase my tail.

Elizabeth:

Right? Right. So, but I will say this year, though, like this last year, her coat's been like a little less sheen-like. So I'm like, okay, now maybe she is getting into that senior era. But like, you know, five years ago when they first started trying to say that, I was like, you've lost your mind. There's no way. There's no way.

Dani:

Yeah. It's sophisticated.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Emily:

Well, I would love to know what role perinatal mental health disorders have played in your personal life, professional life. How did you get here exactly?

Dani:

Let's start at the beginning. Was it a dark and stormy night? Let's foreshadow a little bit.

Elizabeth:

Right? Well, I was in California, so I'm from California, so we don't have many dark and stormy nights.

Dani:

Oh, just 70 and sunny?

Elizabeth:

Right. Probably wasn't a dark and stormy night.

Dani:

Okay.

Emily:

It might have rained. The whole city shut down.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Dani:

Okay, Emily, this is Elizabeth's story. Continue. Just joking.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, it was one of those things where it was like it was on my radar before I conceived, but I still didn't have an understanding of it. Right? So in my mind, perinatal mental health was postpartum depression and postpartum depression was not connecting with your baby. So that to me was like all kind of that I knew. And I had had a work colleague that had committed suicide like during my pregnancy. So it was kind of one of those things where I was like, OK, so, you know, I'm telling friends close to me, like, please watch for me. Right? Like watch and make sure that I don't get postpartum depression. And if I do get it, like, you know, let's do something about it.

Emily:

Like having had that personal experience of that work friend, you were then suddenly like mental health top of mind?

Elizabeth:

Right. And that was a male colleague. So it wasn't even- it wasn't perinatal related, but just bringing to light mental health because it's like on the outside looking in, who'd have thought?

Emily:

You don't know.

Elizabeth:

Right. Exactly. You don't know. And even the friends that I was telling, like, please watch for me. Like, they don't know what it is. Like, they don't know what they're looking for.

Emily:

They're like, OK, what am I watching for?

Elizabeth:

Right. So after my first baby was born, it was like almost instantaneous. And I have pictures in the hospital because the hospital I birthed in had a professional photographer come in and do like those newborn photos or whatever, like, you know, while you're in the hospital. And like, I couldn't even muster a smile, you know, and it's just kind of like, but of course, being in it, I didn't really think too much of it, except for when I was sharing those pictures. And I was just like, don't share this with people like, you know, that kind of feeling. So mine, it was very ragey, right? Yeah. But me and the baby, we were fine. Like we connected. He was nursing well, like from the get go, like he and I were good. But everyone else around me, I was like, y'all can go somewhere else.

Dani:

Ah.

Emily:

Like it's us against the world.

Elizabeth:

Yes. And so I remember those feelings of just like, I don't want anyone around me. Like, I just, can you please just not be here? My mother had come in to help. And then my husband was there, of course. But it was just kind of like, you guys can't do anything right. You know what I mean? I have to do the laundry. I have to do this and that.

Dani:

They don't understand.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, yeah.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

So that's kind of how it was. But I didn't go on for treatment because I still didn't understand that that's what it was.

Emily:

You just thought everyone around you was incompetent.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Dani:

And that was like infuriating.

Elizabeth:

Right.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

I mean, I've seen people cut onions not the way I want onions cut. So like...

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Emily:

But in the moment, that feels like a justified and normal-

Elizabeth:

Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, but because I didn't think it was postpartum depression, right, because I'm not crying and I'm not bonding with my baby. I'm just going around thinking this is normal. It's fine. I'm OK. And then when I got back to work, so I worked at the time, I was an energy trader. So it was, think,Enron, but without jail time, right?

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

So it was like a white male dominated industry.

Emily:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

So there's always going to be like these little transgressions, these little microaggressions and things like that that happened. But in the before times, you know, stuff could roll off. But now it's like, you know, these things aren't rolling off anymore.

Emily:

Not that it should have had to to begin with.

Elizabeth:

Exactly. It shouldn't have had to.

Emily:

But suddenly you were like stuck in– like you were like covered in sticky stuff.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. I was no longer the proverbial duck's back. Right?

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

So then, you know, so now you get -or I get snippy and then there's outbursts and then things like that. And then so all of a sudden I am, right? The quintessential angry black woman.

Emily:

What does that even mean?

Elizabeth:

Right? I know. I know. I know. So then, you know, the promotions come up and I'm overlooked. And it's like, you know, in the moment, it's just like– looking back, it's like, girl, you wouldn't have given yourself that promotion either. So like, let's take a step back. Right? Like looking back at it. But in the moment, it's just kind of like awful. Fortunately, I had like a wonderful like immediate supervisor, the most amazing human being on this planet. o he was understanding of it and I feel like he probably recognized it and didn't, you know, tell me Girl, go get help. But you know what I mean, like you don't tell people that, like how do you how do you tell people that. Like especially as a boss, like come on let's tiptoe. But at least the grace was there in the workplace, right? It wasn't like write-ups and things like that nature.

Dani:

How soon after– or postpartum did you go back to work? Four months. Four months. Okay. And you were breastfeeding, you mentioned.

Emily:

Yes. In a male-dominated workplace. How'd that go?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, because I was in California. We had mandated breaks.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

We had a room.

Dani:

Hey, California.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, right. I see you.

Emily:

I see you.

Dani:

Yes.

Elizabeth:

Like a friend of mine, she was asking me about wearable pumps. And I said, don't you do it. It's like you live in California. Take your break. You don't need a wearable one because then next thing you know, you're going to be sitting at your desk with it on, like and it's just gonna be a slippery slope.

Dani:

Yep.

Elizabeth:

Take advantage of what you get and use it.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

In the beginning like when I first went back, my husband and I staggered our time off so he took time off after me. So for the first like two weeks he would bring the baby to me like once a day so I could nurse at work.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

And then I would pump the rest of the time but that was just more like because first kid and missing baby, yeah, yeah.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

I mean obviously that's not a long-term solution, but fortunately he was you know understanding and brought the baby to me for those first couple weeks and it's like okay this is not- this is not sustainable but–

Emily:

The traffic alone.

Elizabeth:

Right? So– we lived relatively close, I had odd work hours and I was like I can't be on time if I have to drive far. Like there's-

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

There's no way. So, um, yeah, fast forward, like the first year, pretty much, was pretty tumultuous. It started calming down after that first year. And then we started to try again for number two and then got pregnant with number two or with the second pregnancy and then went in for like the initial scans and stuff. And then it's like, oh, it was a twin gestation, but there's only one heartbeat. Okay. So then, you know, that gets you feeling some type of way. Then at 12 weeks, I had a miscarriage of the other one. I went to the hospital by myself. The nannies weren't answering their phones and I didn't want my toddler in the hospital. So I told my husband to stay home with him and I'll go. So yeah, so it's just those kind of like, those stoic moments that kind of come back to haunt you And it's like, girl, why didn't you like, it's OK to need help. Like, right? It's OK to want somebody there to hold your hand during these things.

Dani:

When you said you were feeling some kind of way, do you want to like share with us like about how you were feeling? I mean, I'm here. You're here. We're here.

Emily:

When you went in for the first scan and found that the first...

Elizabeth:

Well, right? Because then there's that grief and happiness at the same time. Right? Because it's like...

Emily:

Oh, yeah.

Elizabeth:

Like, you know, like you've already lost one. Like, can you be happy about this one? Like, I don't know.

Emily:

Because you still have that little flutter.

Elizabeth:

Right. And it's so funny because I was doing all the things because I wanted twins. So I was doing all the old wives tales and stuff.

Dani:

Really? You were like manifesting twins?

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

Like, I'm going to pick up my left leg and hop around.

Emily:

I don't think we've ever had someone go, and I was really hoping for two.

Elizabeth:

I was. I was doing all the things. And then, you know, you get excited because she's like, oh, there's two sacks. And then it's like, we did it. And then it's like, there's one heartbeat. And it's like, oh, OK.

Dani:

Yeah, it's complicated.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, yeah, it is.

Emily:

OK, so before that, you had described the feelings as predominantly ragey.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Emily:

What was this? Was this like grief?

Elizabeth:

It was. Yeah, it wasn't ragey at all. It was like a grief. And then even in the miscarriage, it was kind of one of those things where it's like, okay, well, now they're together, right?

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

But that's like, is this just what we're telling ourselves to get through? But, you know, I guess do what you got to do to get by, right? Yeah. It was a hard time. But also like I have a, you know, gosh, I don't even know how old the other one was at that point, like 13 months or something like that, 14 months. So you can't stop anything. You got to, you know, you have to, you got to keep going because you still have a human that you're raising.

Dani:

Well, yeah, you could go. I'm sitting. I'm honoring my feelings. Oh, up from a nap. That's the end of that. Need to move on.

Elizabeth:

Exactly. So, I mean, it was a good thing that I couldn't wallow. But also a bad thing because I couldn't wallow.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

Like you need to give yourself that time to grieve and kind of get over it.

Emily:

It was forced stoicism. It wasn't like stoicism that you were like, you know what? I just need a moment of opting out of this roller coaster of emotions. It was like you were like, I'm fine. Everything's fine because I have a toddler.

Dani:

Up until this point, Elizabeth, had you reached out? Like, were you seeing a therapist regularly or on meds or anything like that?

Elizabeth:

I was not. Yeah. So it's like therapy is something, like I had done it before pregnancy. And that was the thing. Like, I wasn't against it at all by any means, because I said, like, I went to therapy regularly before. But this was just, I think, like I said, not understanding that perinatal mental health is a broad category, right? It's not just this one thing. And understanding that, then it's like, oh, OK. So then fast forward to the next pregnancy was like two months after the miscarriage. I think I was able to conceive again. And then going through that pregnancy. And that's when one of the NP at my office, because it was midwives and NP and doctors. When I saw the NP, she sat me down and sshe wanted to put me on medication for anxiety. And I was like, oh, OK.

Dani:

What was she noticing?

Emily:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. Right? I don't know what behaviors exactly, but I had seen her for multiple appointments. So there must have been something that I was exhibiting, you know, in my appointments where she was- that caused her like to stop and say, hey.

Dani:

It was hard for you to see, but she had been seeing you for a while and was like, you know what? I wonder if this might be helpful.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, let's check you, like something's going on.

Emily:

Were you receptive or were you like, what are you talking about?

Elizabeth:

I was receptive of something might be wrong, but I was not willing to do medication for it. But, you know, not having the education on medication in pregnancy.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

So that's why I was just kind of like, oh, that's okay. Like, I'll deal with it until, you know, I'll deal with it until the baby comes. It's fine.

Dani:

We'll just hold on really tight.

Elizabeth:

I know. Like, it's okay. It's okay. We're all right.

Emily:

Look, I'm fine. I'm fine.

Elizabeth:

I know, right? Actually, before I even had the baby, I had cholestasis. So that is a liver disease in pregnancy.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

And I remember, so my husband is a, my husband's a pilot, so he's gone half the week. And he happened to be gone. And I was just like, something is wrong with me. Like, it was just kind of one of those things where it's like, you know, mentally, you just know, like, something is just not right. And then one night I got itchy, right? And I was just like breaking the skin, kind of itchy.

Dani:

Everywhere?

Elizabeth:

Yes. So I'm like Googling, trying to figure it out. And I'm just like, oh, my gosh, what is this? And then I look it up and I find it. And then something that I read said, like, African-Americans are not- like the percentage was very, very low. So then on top of this, now I have this thing where it's like, great, if I take this to the doctor, are they going to be like, oh, no, it's not that like type thing. Like, are they not going to believe me type of thing?

Dani:

Oh, wow. OK.

Elizabeth:

So that's why it's just like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. And then I went to the doctor's office and like immediately she's like, yep, let's go. Let's get you tested. You know what I mean? And this is why I was at that office. Sutter Davis Health. Hey. Giving a little shout out.

Emily:

Shout out.

Elizabeth:

One of the best places in the nation to give birth. Just putting that out there.

Emily:

Wow. Okay.

Dani:

Five star review.

Elizabeth:

It's a good place. Good place to be. All that to say, you know, I went in, brought it up and it was like it wasn't no pushback. There wasn't a like, no, it's not that. It couldn't be that. And just immediately started testing. I had to go to the hospital, get testing over there. And then they're like, yeah, this baby needs to come now.

Dani:

How far along were you?

Elizabeth:

I was 37 weeks. And I was like, you know, I was like, well, my husband's not home. And I had my toddler with me. And I was like–

Emily:

Does anyone know what I should do with this guy?

Elizabeth:

Right. And I was like, you know, can I leave and come back? And there was actually one test that they were waiting for. And I was like, you know, I need to leave. He needs a nap. Like, I can't stay here right now. Like, I got to go. And then he's like, if you leave and this test comes, do you promise to come back? I'll figure it out. But for now, I got to go. So I left. And then the midwife, he calls later and he's like, you need to come back. And I was like, OK, well, I'll come back tomorrow. Like, I'll come back in the morning after my husband gets home. And then I had my- my mother had to change her flight so she could come in. And I had to call my sister like,

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

can you come and sit with your nephew so I can go to the hospital? And yeah. And it was just the stark difference after baby two, like the feeling versus baby one. It was just like, ah, you know, all the rainbows and sunshine and all this other stuff. So it's just like, so then that just kind of harks back to like, oh, my gosh, like something was wrong. Right?

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

And then before the second one was even born, my first one did not sleep well, like from jump.

Dani:

Rude.

Elizabeth:

And I was worried about like ADHD. And so I was looking for a provider to get assessed because I was like.

Dani:

For yourself?

Elizabeth:

For my child.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

I was like, I want to get this caught early, like for intervention or whatever needs to be done, because there's all these deadlines and everything that you don't know about. And then it's like, oh, now next thing you know, your child's four. Sorry, you don't get anything. So I didn't want to miss anything or anything like that. So we go to this session. So I go with him. And then she's like, your child is fine. You are not.

Emily:

Thank you.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, she's like, I think you could benefit from some sessions. So I'm like, okay. So that's when I started being a therapist after the second one came along when I was trying to get the first one... Make sure that he was good. And they're like, girl, like, you know what I mean? It's just funny, like, to laugh at now when the professionals are like, you've got multiple professionals telling you, honey, let's come sit down.

Dani:

Yeah. She said no to meds. Okay, let's suggest a different approach.

Elizabeth:

So, well, because that was a different, that was a different provider.

Dani:

Oh, was it?

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

Got it.

Emily:

I have a question. I want to go back in time for a hot second.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Emily:

So when you were talking about your first postpartum experience, one of the first thoughts that popped into my head was, what was the birth like? And I want to pause and acknowledge that that was my first thought, because it shouldn't matter, right? Like if you were not okay, you felt ragey, connected with the baby, but it was you and the baby against the world. The birth doesn't necessarily, it's not like if this, then that.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, so it was not, yeah, it wasn't PTSD related. My birth was amazing.

Emily:

Like you were like five stars.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, five stars. It was.

Emily:

Would do it again.

Elizabeth:

Would do it again. And I did actually, both kids were born in the same tub.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, so that was pretty cool. Again, Sutter Davis Hospital, Sutter Davis Medical, Women's Health, something like that.

Dani:

Not sponsored, but we could be. Hey.

Elizabeth:

Yes, yes, we could be. It's like one-on-one care with a nurse. They have a volunteer doula program. Foreshadowing there, right?

Emily:

And you were like, hmm, doula.

Elizabeth:

Exactly. So I had a doula. I birthed in the tub, unmedicated. I started having contractions at like two in the morning and I went to the hospital around two in the afternoon and then I had him at seven, I think.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

So, I mean, as far as births go, I...

Emily:

That's a good- okay.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, I don't think it was traumatic in the least bit. It was...

Emily:

It wasn't compounded. Whatever you were experiencing wasn't compounded by.

Elizabeth:

Right. Compounded by the birth. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. If anything, I mean, the second birth was more traumatic, but even that wasn't super traumatic. It was just the fact of like, oh, no, he's coming right now or has to come. So–

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

You know, so then I had to be induced and Pitocin is not fun, but it was still, you know, I was still able to push through without pain meds. So it wasn't awful. And I mean, they lovingly yelled at me to make me get up and walk around. And I'm like, look, I'm on vacation. Like I was quite literally like, bring me my food. Like I'm getting rest. Like the kid is cared for. Like he's got my mom and his aunt. Like he's good.

Dani:

What's on the menu, what can I order for lunch later?

Elizabeth:

Because they have the thing where you fill it out, that you fill out your menu, I'm like this is what I want to eat

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

TV on, like I'm... So that's kind of how I was approached it, and then they're like you need to get up and walk around please. Because I was on like the Pitocin for a day and it wasn't doing anything, so I'm like, look, we're gonna stop this tonight so I can sleep and then we'll start again in the morning. It's fine, it's fine. And that's just a, you know, to, I guess, reiterate, right? Even if you have a beautiful birthing experience, you know, those hormones are going to hormone.

Emily:

Indeed.

Dani:

Perinatal mental health disorders do not discriminate.

Elizabeth:

They do not.

Emily:

They don't care about your birth story.

Elizabeth:

They don't care. They don't care. Like, how dare you cloud this beautiful birth? Yeah.

Dani:

So after the third, am I getting the timeline wrong?

Elizabeth:

After the third, after my second birth.

Dani:

Yes. The evaluator was like, he does not- negative for ADHD, ghostwriter. Like...

Emily:

However.

Dani:

However... Light shines on you. What can we help you with?

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

We've got some resources. So tell us a little bit about that. So like a therapist was recommended. You were like, OK, maybe there's something going on here.

Emily:

Yeah. Were they flagging anxiety? What was going on?

Elizabeth:

Yeah. But I guess, you know, and then in further reading, like, well, when you don't treat this one. Well, now you can have– now that causes something else when you don't treat the initial one. So it's like, oh, okay, well, let's go ahead and get this, let's get this therapy going then. And at that point, I didn't feel that I needed medication in that moment just because, like I said, the stark difference in, you know, A and B. But I was like, yeah, I can absolutely use therapy because obviously the anxiety was heightened, I think, partly because like you just had a miscarriage that you also didn't deal with. Right? So you didn't deal with your postpartum depression. You didn't deal with the grief from your miscarriage.

Dani:

Yep.

Elizabeth:

And you have a toddler that doesn't sleep and you're having another baby. Like, yes, I'm absolutely anxious.

Dani:

Like we love the rainbows and unicorns of this third.

Elizabeth:

Right.

Dani:

But there's other stuff underneath the surface. So let's talk about it.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

And did that go OK? Like, did you have trouble finding a therapist?

Elizabeth:

I didn't, because it was actually the same provider that I had to evaluate for the ADHD. So she was just like, I can see you. And I said, thank you.

Emily:

Cool.

Dani:

You got something on the calendar?

Elizabeth:

Yeah. Yes.

Dani:

My favorite question of my therapist is like, well, let's look at the calendar. When would be a good time to- insert anything? And I'm like, dang it, but I don't deal with it, but I'm choosing to be here. Okay.

Elizabeth:

Right. Yes.

Dani:

Okay. So you got something on the calendar. You got therapy started.

Elizabeth:

Got therapy started. And then, so those are baby stories. But then in the meantime, right, so back to after baby number one and the working and the transgressions and the microaggressions and all of that other stuff.

Emily:

Yep.

Elizabeth:

It came to a point where I was just like, I can't do this anymore because I was primary parent. You know, my spouse was gone half the week. This is not sustainable. And so then it was like, well, if I don't work, where can we go that you can work? Like, where can your job transfer you to, and that we can afford on just that salary, so that I don't have to work? We settled on Georgia.

Dani:

All right. So Cali to Georgia.

Elizabeth:

Cali to Georgia. But I was of sound enough mind to say I'm not moving before, you know, till I'm done pushing out babies because I'm not leaving California for that.

Dani:

Did you have a support system there?

Elizabeth:

Yes. Yeah. So because I'm from there, like my friends and family, you know, are there. My friends from preschool, right? My preschool bestie is my kid's godmother.

Dani:

What?

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Emily:

And you had a hospital that you trusted.

Elizabeth:

And a hospital that was amazing and I trusted.

Dani:

And providers like that can help you.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely. And the pediatrician too. It was just like, it was just like stellar. Stellar.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Stellar.

Dani:

Stellar.

Elizabeth:

So– I'm glad everyone got that. Yeah. So anyhow, we were like, okay, we'll do Georgia. So we actually bought the house. I think we started looking before I got pregnant the second time. And then we came out and closed and signed the paperwork and everything while I was in the second pregnancy. So we sat on this house for a bit before we moved out because, again, it's like I'm not birthing anywhere that's not California. Like...

Dani:

Uh-huh.

Elizabeth:

Period.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

That's a healthy boundary.

Elizabeth:

Yes, I think so. I think so. And so, yeah, after the second baby, then we moved. But again, that, right? the mindset I was in that first year of baby number one was completely different than the mindset I was in after baby number two. So we moved out here when baby number two was like four months old. So by then I'm like cleared up, you know, in therapy and all the other things. And then I get here and I'm like, mistakes were made.

Dani:

Hi, my name is Elizabeth. Nice to meet you. Are we best friends or?

Elizabeth:

Yeah. So I think about two months I was here before I started looking for a job. So I was like, yeah, this stay at home mom, that is not me. I am not the one.

Dani:

You didn't know. You tried it.

Elizabeth:

But here's the thing. I did know because I never in my life, not when I was young, I never wanted to be stay at home. Like I wanted a lot of kids, but I never wanted to be stay at home. So it's like either my husband will stay home or we'll have to be able to afford someone to be home with the kids because I am not the one.

Dani:

Was that hard to, I mean, I've heard a lot of people like struggle with that. That's really cool that you knew that about yourself. Like you thought about it and you were like, no.

Emily:

This is the vision.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. And so here's the thing about me. I am a caregiver, but I am not a nurturer. So I am going to make sure logistically that you are taken care of, that you are cared for, that you have everything that you need, right, to succeed and those types of things. And I am empathetic in that I can anticipate your needs and feelings and all of those things. And I'm fine carrying that load. However, you know, I'm not the one like when you're sick that I'm rubbing your back over the toilet. Like I'm not that one, you know?

Dani:

Okay. That's okay.

Elizabeth:

I have always known this about myself, which is why like I wanted a lot of kids because I wanted to provide that support for them. I'm also in the middle of eight. So I'm, you know what I mean? So it's kind of one of those things where it's like, you're used to it.

Dani:

You're in the middle of eight kids. Wow.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, it's a him, hers, and ours type situation. But we all lived in the same house full time. So I'm like, so no, it counts. Like we're all-

Dani:

Uh-huh, you were-

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Dani:

Solidly in the middle.

Elizabeth:

Yes, I am.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

But anyhow, so yeah, so I always wanted to provide that love and support to children.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

But I just knew I wasn't the one that was going to be able to gently, you know, be gentle 24-7, which is why I didn't want to be staying home.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

But now because of the whole and then, you know, my husband changed his mind, too, because he was initially like, yeah, I can stay home. But then after the kid came, no, I can't stay home.

Dani:

He was like, I need to go to work. I need to be out of the house, which is, again, good that you both could talk about it.

Elizabeth:

So I was like, fine, I'll stay home because all the stuff at work plus the perinatal mental health, it's just like, I don't want to do this. I can't do this. So I was like, I'll do it. And then we get here and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. So like two months in, I'm looking for a job. I'm looking for a school for the toddler. And I looked for a job for two and a half years, three years, maybe. I don't even know. But from when I got here, because the job title, right, that I had in California, it does not exist in the state of Georgia. Their energy trading is done in Alabama. It's like, I'm not, I can't commute to Alabama.

Dani:

I just picked Georgia.

Elizabeth:

Right. And it's like, so it's got to be something here. Now, I will say in those three years, how long have I been here? Yeah. So three years I was looking for a job. I did get an offer with one utility company here about an hour away. A, it was an hour away. And B, it was nights and weekends only.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

And this was like during COVID. So I had had, I had childcare, but they didn't want to work nights and weekends.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

And then I was looking at au pairs, but because it was COVID, like, and they were blocking entry.

Dani:

Yes.

Elizabeth:

There were a couple countries that they could come in from, but they had their pick of the litter, right? So you had people offering them cars and, you know, their own suite, right? With the en suite and all this other stuff. And it's like, I can't compete.

Emily:

That's not my life.

Elizabeth:

Right. And like higher stipends and things like that. And it's like, I can't compete with that. So I did have to turn that job down. I was like, I feel like I'm setting women back 50 years. I don't have childcare. I can't take this job.

Dani:

It's expensive.

Emily:

We are not what set women back 50 years. I would like to push back on that.

Elizabeth:

You're right.

Dani:

Let the record show.

Emily:

We didn't do any of this.

Elizabeth:

Thank you for that clarification because you're right. You're right.

Emily:

But it feels like that at the moment.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. So obviously going through all of that kind of, you know, puts you back in a bad headspace or put me back in a bad headspace because it's like I've put in hundreds of applications and you're telling me I'm not good enough. When I tell you I applied at McDonald's and Target, I didn't even get a call back for Target.

Emily:

That's rude.

Elizabeth:

And McDonald's, they would have taken me, but they wanted someone to work eight hour shifts. And it was either like six to two or three to 11 or something like that. But one of the two where it's like, I have kids, like I got to take them to school and pick them up type of thing. Like, I can't do a solid eight hours for you. I'm sorry.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

But yeah, like that can make you depressed really quick. Like to be like, I can't get a job at Target. Are you kidding me?

Emily:

You're like, I'm qualified for this.

Elizabeth:

Thank you.

Emily:

Hello.

Elizabeth:

Thank you. And I would like to go on record that I worked at Target in the past. I worked at Target in college. So how are you telling me that now I can't work at Target?

Dani:

We're family.

Emily:

Make it make sense.

Elizabeth:

Right. Right.

Dani:

Wow.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. So that was putting me kind of back in like bad times. So then it's like, OK, we might should see a therapist. And then at that point, I was thinking, I was like, this might be something more serious. But during that time, because I couldn't get a job, I was like, you know what? Let me look into like midwifery because I had such a great experience. I was like, let's look into it. But then I was like, do you really want to go back to school for that long? Like, what if you don't like it? Because that is, you know, that's a lot. So I was like, OK, well, let me start with doula work. Let's start as a doula to see if I like doing the labor support. And then if I like this, then I can see if I want to take that progression into being a midwife. So while I was doing my coursework and whatnot for my doula certification, one of the recommended books I was reading mentioned PSI.

Dani:

Hey.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Dani:

Oh, Elizabeth, you're like reading your mind. We usually ask how PSI came on folks' radar. So there you go.

Emily:

In a book.

Elizabeth:

Yes, in a book. And so it's like, let me check this out. And so I bring it up.

Dani:

Uh-huh.

Elizabeth:

And then you have all of the emotions of, why didn't I know about this before? Because I would not be sitting here in Georgia had I known about this before. Number one.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

And then you get the whole like, this is so cool. I'm so glad this place exists.

Dani:

I bet Georgia is lovely. Your entire support system is in Cali, though. You know?

Elizabeth:

And that is it. And I tell everybody because I'm trying to get everybody to move here still. So it's like, I was like, we can have a compound out here. Like, get some property.

Emily:

I'm listening. Continue.

Elizabeth:

Thank you. Yes.

Emily:

You had me at compound.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, come on. I'm serious. I'm dead serious. I laugh when I say it, but I am 100% serious.

Emily:

I think communal parenting is easier.

Elizabeth:

Thank you.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

It is.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Yes. PSI came on my radar. So I looked it up and was just like, this is amazing. How do I get involved? So I started as a peer mentor.

Dani:

Hey, that's how I was first connected with PSI.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

Cool.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, so I had some peers and then a position had opened up for something within peer mentors, like an assistant or something like that. And I was like, oh, let me apply for this. So I applied and then spoke with Carrie and Jessica. And then they were like, you know, we think you would be great for this position over here. And so then they had me speak with Wendy.

Emily:

They were like, hold, please. Hey, Wendy, we got a live one.

Dani:

Let me= just a second.

Elizabeth:

Right, right. And then, yeah, so I spoke with Wendy. And then she was like, yeah, I think they were right. So I'm like, OK, lovely.

Dani:

And is that what you're doing now?

Elizabeth:

So that is what I'm doing now. Yeah, so that is for the legal justice program. Yeah.

Dani:

This is a little teaser because this episode is going to come out, even though we've already recorded the legal justice episode. We're time traveling right now. This one will come out first.

Emily:

We're recording the prequel.

Dani:

Yes, this is a prequel. Check back the end of June, the week of PSI's annual conference, the 20- I don't know, week of the 24th.

Elizabeth:

Yes, come see us in LA. It's a lot of fun.

Emily:

Do it.

Dani:

We're going to drop the episode about PSI's Legal Justice Program.

Elizabeth:

Fantastic.

Dani:

Because there's going to be a great keynote focusing on legal justice at the conference this year. So I had to throw a little teaser in there.

Elizabeth:

Yes. Thank you. We love teasers. We love advertisements.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Yes. Okay. Elizabeth, I want to ask you really quick before, because I'm excited for the lightning round. I'm always excited for the lightning round. But before we get there, how else are you supporting folks in the perinatal period? Because obviously you're doing the legal justice work. In addition to that, are you still a doula? What else is in your repertoire?

Elizabeth:

I am still a doula and lactation counselor. I am a TRICARE provider as well. There's only like, unfortunately, like four in the state.

Dani:

What does that mean?

Elizabeth:

So TRICARE is the military insurance. So.

Dani:

Oh, great.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. So I help support those who have served and their families. Everyone deserves to be supported.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

One of the reasons I did go on to do the doula thing, because I was like, OK, well, if I don't have to work, let me do something, right, that I'm going to want to do instead of something that I have to do to pay the bills.

Emily:

Yes.

Elizabeth:

So I am very glad that I'm able to do that. And so- and that's why I do, you know, the TRICARE work, because it's... I think we all know, it's no secret that they don't pay very much or very well. Like literally it's like I have to do visits in person. And like, did you even pay for my gas to get there? Like, you didn't even cover gas, you know? But it's like, it is- everyone deserves to be supported in their perinatal experience. So if I can do it, I am going to do it.

Emily:

That's awesome. Are you a birth doula?

Elizabeth:

Yes, I am a birth doula.

Emily:

Do you also do postpartum?

Elizabeth:

No, I do not do postpartum. I feel like postpartum is easier to find someone to help you out in that space. So I do the birth side. So I do come to you like a few times after you give birth in the beginning. Right? So I go like the day after you get home just so that I can lay eyes on you since they kick us out of the hospital so quickly.

Emily:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Like, bye. So I can lay eyes on you and make sure that you're good. Make sure baby's feeding if that's, you know, if they're nursing or, actually any way, make sure baby's just getting fed. Right. And then offer the support that way.

Dani:

Cool. You're doing all kinds of things.

Elizabeth:

Trying to. Trying to. And then keep my children alive at the same time.

Dani:

It's a juggle.

Emily:

That's, yeah, I mean, it's hard work.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Emily:

It is hard work.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, the younger one, he broke his arm at 18 months, like if that tells you anything.

Dani:

Oh, climbing.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Emily:

Fearless.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Testing the laws of physics? Cool.

Dani:

Physics won.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, yeah and usually does. So it's kind of one of those things, I'm waiting to be flagged when we go to the orthopedist office, like...

Dani:

Like, they're back again.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, right? Like how many times, like how close together is too close together for these incidents.

Dani:

They probably see it all the time.

Elizabeth:

I'm sure they do. I mean, we've we only– let me find some wood to knock on– we haven't been like twice in one year type of thing, so I'm like, I think we're good if we only go like once a year or once every other year. I think we're okay.

Dani:

Some kids have like a punch card. Some kids are so cautious that their knees are pristine.

Emily:

And they're always related to each other.

Dani:

Yes.

Elizabeth:

I know. And I got a message from school that holes in knees are not acceptable in the...

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

I mean, it was a blast to like everyone, But it was so funny because I was like, oh, my child has holes in his pants today. Like I know that was...

Dani:

There are entire years of elementary school!

Elizabeth:

It's the end of the year, you want me to buy new pants for three weeks?

Dani:

It's about to be June. It's hot. Anyway. OK, we're digressing.

Elizabeth:

He won't wear shorts because when he falls on his knees, he wants the protection of the pants. So he won't wear shorts. But it's like, but he's doing the things to put the holes in his pants. So, yeah, so I was just going through. I'm like, you have two pairs of pants, kid.

Dani:

So this is it.

Emily:

He really likes that, like, what is it? Proprioceptive input. Like, he is like a sensory-seeking kid.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Cool.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Dani:

Hey, are we ready to jump into a lighting round?

Elizabeth:

I think so.

Dani:

Okay, Elizabeth, right off the bat. Besides this podcast, what's your second favorite podcast? If you listen to a podcast.

Elizabeth:

Okay. I'm like, don't laugh at me. I don't listen to podcasts.

Dani:

We're not laughing. So it's okay.

Elizabeth:

So this is my first favorite and second favorite.

Dani:

Hey!

Emily:

We're number one. And number two.

Dani:

Let me write that down. Elizabeth Lilley. Great.

Emily:

Okay. Are you binge watching or reading anything?

Dani:

Or listening to an album.

Emily:

Yeah. Like, are you like, this album's on repeat, like Netflix and chill, I'm binging the whole series.

Dani:

What should we add to our queue?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, there's nothing like that I, so, I mean, my regular shows that I watch, I like Will Trent.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

So I am watching that.

Emily:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

And it ebbs and flows, right? Even if I like the show, sometimes I can't pick it up after the season break.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

My brain's like, I'm over that. Like, where's- squirrel, right? Like, where's the new shiny object type of thing?

Dani:

Uh-huh.

Elizabeth:

But Will Trent is one that I continue to come back to.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

And I do watch Grey's Anatomy.

Dani:

Why do you say it like that?

Elizabeth:

Because I'm perpetually angry. Like, when I watch it, and then it's like, why are you still watching this, right? But then I still continue to watch it because it has some good moments still.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

I've been mad ever since, like, Lexi and McSteamy.

Elizabeth:

Since they passed.

Emily:

Died in the car-

Elizabeth:

The plane.

Dani:

Spoiler.

Emily:

I was all done. That is like 10 years old.

Elizabeth:

I was like, what do you mean spoiler?

Emily:

That's no spoiler.

Dani:

I don't know. Maybe somebody who lives under a rock is listening to our podcast.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Emily:

So sorry?

Elizabeth:

Yeah. We'll take that one.

Dani:

Elizabeth, what's your best parenting hack? Let's just recognize there's not one thing that works for everybody. And one thing that works for a kid may work today and not tomorrow.

Elizabeth:

You know, I know. Yeah that's the thing because it's like anytime like you think you have a hack, you don't.

Emily:

They wake up with a whole new set of needs the next day. Like you figured it out and then they're a different person and you're like, damn it.

Elizabeth:

Right, like, but I will say for breakfast like I do- I'll just batch waffles. Like I'll just do a whole bunch of waffles with protein powder because then I don't have to yell at them to eat protein, because it's like you know, like, why fight?

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

You know what I mean? Like they're not going to pick up, you know, the meat. They want the bread. So just add something else to it. So that's the thing I just add. And then my, like, the spaghetti sauce is full of other vegetables, but I blend it. Put it in the blender, so they can't see it. Because even my husband doesn't like it if I if it's chunky, like with the...

Dani:

I love that. But I've got people in my house that are like, what are these chunks? And I'm like, I'll just blend it up so you don't know that it's there.

Elizabeth:

Right. It's got, you know, has butternut squash and spinach and, you know, just put all the things in there and it's fine.

Dani:

Spaghetti sauce. Blend it up. I'm taking notes because that's a great reminder.

Elizabeth:

Add vegetables where you can. Add protein where you can so that you don't fight with the kids over food.

Dani:

Oh, yeah. We don't want them to have those, you know,

Elizabeth:

We don't want them to have those, you know, complexes when they grow up.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

I have a question about this. This is totally off the cuff.

Dani:

Oh, we're off script.

Emily:

Okay. So we're sneaking in like vegetables or protein powder. I'm in. I love this. This makes perfect sense to me. Do we tell them that they're not eating just bread or do we allow them to think they're eating just bread? And when do we lift the veil so that they realize that they cannot consume only bread for their entire life?

Elizabeth:

Yeah. I mean, I have told them that it's in there. Like, they will watch me make it. But I don't know. You know what I mean? I don't know...

Dani:

It doesn't taste different for them. They're like, great waffles.

Elizabeth:

Well, you put, so I start with Bisquick, right? Because we're not reinventing the wheel. And then get a good protein powder that doesn't, like, that's not super nasty. Unfortunately, it might be on the pricier side. But I also put cinnamon in it because I'm trying- because I am trying to mask.

Dani:

Me too. Me too. I sprinkle cinnamon in it.

Elizabeth:

It does alter the flavor. I understand that it absolutely does alter. So I put a little cinnamon in it to try and help with that.

Dani:

Like nothing going on here.

Elizabeth:

Right. And a little extra oil to, again, try and mask and help with that. But, I mean, my kids are sticks, so a little extra fat is not going to kill them.

Dani:

Yeah. Okay. Cool.

Emily:

Next question. What is one way that you are going to show yourself some radical love, like self-care? How do you show up for yourself? I am actually going to get a pedicure.

Dani:

Hey, cool.

Elizabeth:

I need one.

Emily:

It's flip-flop season.

Elizabeth:

It is, and I haven't been getting one for, you know, a while because it's always like someone else needs something, And then it's like, don't spend that money because you can be spending it on the kids or something that they want or something like that.

Dani:

Like pants in May.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Dani:

Like, he's going to be fine. I need my toes done.

Elizabeth:

He's going to wear his dirty two pairs for the next couple of weeks. If they want clean pants, then they're going to have to deal with holes because I'm getting a pedicure. I don't care. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm done. Because I have to put myself first sometimes.

Dani:

Yes.

Emily:

Yes.

Elizabeth:

And because the kids are getting old enough now to where like some of their behaviors is kind of like questionable. I'm like, I don't work for you.

Dani:

Oh!

Elizabeth:

I do not work for you.

Dani:

I'm going to write that down. I do not...

Elizabeth:

So it's kind of like, OK, are they doing this because they're seeing like– because it's obvious that they are my priority.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

So that, and now it's like, OK, we have to dial this back because you guys are old enough that I should be able to go to the bathroom and you know not to bother me. Like I should be able to poop without you knocking on my door.

Dani:

Oh, yeah. I'm setting the timer for a minute and 45 seconds. I can get this done, but I need you to take a breath. I'll be right back.

Elizabeth:

Right.

Dani:

I know you can handle this.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. So there's just little things and it's kind of one of those things where it's like, you know, I have no one to blame about myself. Right? Like my kids are spoiled, but I did it. So now we're trying to...

Emily:

I did this.

Elizabeth:

Trying to dial it back and prioritize myself and take care of myself.

Dani:

Yeah. And that's okay.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. Because it helps them. It helps them to see that we have to take care of ourselves. Right. Like that...

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

It's okay to not give our entire selves to somebody else. Like...

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

I don't want to show them that either. You know what I mean? Like even though it's your kids and it's different than like a spouse or something like that. But I don't want them to see or have that expectation that someone should be like...

Emily:

Right. Because they don't know that you're modeling one versus the other. They're just seeing what you're modeling.

Elizabeth:

Right.

Emily:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Right. So, again, that's why he's going to wear either holy pants or dirty pants because...

Dani:

Hey.

Elizabeth:

Because I'm probably not going to be able to wash enough during the week to get those two pairs to stretch.

Dani:

It's okay. Okay. Let's hop in a time machine. You get to decide what type of time machine we're jumping in, Elizabeth, whatever. You know, DeLorean, TARDIS, whatever. It doesn't matter.

Elizabeth:

I have never seen that movie.

Dani:

The Outlander rock. Whatever.

Emily:

Could be anything.

Elizabeth:

I've not seen either one, but okay.

Dani:

Okay. What is one thing that today you wishes you could, you know, hop in a time machine and go back and tell pre-recovery you?

Emily:

What did you need to hear?

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. I needed to hear that it was a thing, right? That it wasn't– that my feelings were not normal and that I didn't have to suffer through any of it, like that I could get help. And I will say that is another reason why I do what I do now in the legal justice program, because that was a thought in my head. Like, if I say something's wrong with me, are my kids going to be taken away?

Emily:

What part of the system could come for me?

Elizabeth:

Yeah. And because I had that rage and like didn't even want to be around my husband, I'm like, great. Like he's going to have added whatever to take my kids.

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

You know, that was a thought. Albeit wasn't as high, like up here, but it was a thought that did come to my mind, as far as in the thick of it. Like, what if? But, you know, knowing that that's not- we're not doing that, you know, and there are people that will not stand for that. That helps.

Emily:

And now you're those people.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. It's one of those things where you get in it and it's just like, oh, my gosh, like I'm not the only one, like, you are not alone. Right? So it's just like the song just plays because you're not, because there are so many people that are going through the exact same thing that you're going through. Well, I shouldn't say exact, but incredibly similar.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

We are more similar than different.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

Really important follow-up question because Emily and I are moms and we need to check in on everybody and make sure that, like, you know, you're staying hydrated and all your basic needs are being met. So...

Emily:

How do you take your water? Bubbles, no bubbles, flavor, no flavor?

Elizabeth:

However it is given to me.

Dani:

However it's given to you? Okay.

Emily:

Are you a good hydrator?

Elizabeth:

I am.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

I like free cups.

Dani:

Oh, I like free cups.

Elizabeth:

And I cannot lie. So this is currently, I guess, room temperature. I can drink room temperature. I can drink iced. I can drink flat. I can drink bubbly. But I do not drink flavored. I don't like lacroix or whatever that nonsense is.

Emily:

Lacroix.

Elizabeth:

Lacroix. No, we're not doing that. I did a little in pregnancy just to try and stave off nausea.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

I tried the flavored sparkling waters.

Dani:

Yeah. Wasn't your jam.

Elizabeth:

It helped a little, but...

Dani:

My kids would say, that's not my cup of tea.

Elizabeth:

It's not my cup of tea. It was not.

Dani:

I couldn't handle the, ew. And I was like, we're going to come up with some new phrases to say. And they still say it. At 11, 14, and 16, they're still saying, it's just not my cup of tea. And I'm like, fair enough.

Elizabeth:

You just have to try it, though. As long as they try it. They are allowed to tell me they don't like it, but they are not allowed to say that if they haven't tried it.

Emily:

Yes. I'm going to take a moment to acknowledge Dani's parenting hack, the "it's not my cup of tea." Because my go-to, if someone says, I don't like this, I go, it doesn't like you either.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Emily:

I don't like broccoli. I'm like, broccoli doesn't like you either.

Elizabeth:

I do the same thing. Yeah. I'm with you, Emily.

Emily:

And I'm like, this might not be the right approach. Don't don't do what I do.

Elizabeth:

Probably not. But I'm with you on it. Actually, no, I think my response is that's nice or that's OK. You're allowed to not like it.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

But we're still going to do it or still going to, you know, whatever needs to be done, so.

Emily:

Also better.

Dani:

Elizabeth, if anybody would like to get a hold of you, they've listened to this episode. Something's resonated. They have some questions about, I don't know, anything.

Emily:

Transcontinental moves, legal justice...

Dani:

If somebody wants to get in touch with you, how can they? Or would you like to not be contacted? Either way, we're here for it all.

Elizabeth:

If they have doula questions, they can go to my website, lilleywellness.com.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

And if they have PSI legal justice questions, they can go to PSI's website, postpartum.net, and they can find us under resources or the professional tab. Or you can email legaljustice@postpartum.net.

Dani:

Awesome. Well, we will drop links to all of the really awesome things that we mentioned in today's episode in the show notes. Emily, would you like to take us out?

Emily:

Why, yes, I would. Okay, Elizabeth, I have been looking forward to this recording, both recordings, really, with you, because I love your energy and your enthusiasm for this work. It's like infectious in the best way. And I really appreciate that your story took you away from that and that you found your way back to infectious enthusiasm. Like wherever you're going, I want to go, too.

Elizabeth:

We're going to L.A. next month if someone else wants to join.

Emily:

So thank you so much for being here.

Elizabeth:

Yes. Thank you guys for having me. It was lovely. Both times.

Dani:

Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media, and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time and, well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.

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Dani Giddens (she/her)

Host
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Emily Jankowski (she/her)

Co-host