I AM ONE Podcast by Postpartum Support International

PSI's Legal Justice Program

• Episode 73

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On today’s episode, we’re sitting down to discuss yet another incredible program here at PSI! We’ll be talking with Elizabeth Lilley about the vital work of PSI’s Legal Justice Program, which focuses on educating legal professionals about perinatal mental health disorders and helping improve the support available to parents and families involved in the legal system in the context of a perinatal mental health disorder. This conversation covers PSI’s free resources for legal professionals and families, volunteer opportunities, and the importance of reducing stigma around mental health disorders — which are temporary and treatable. Altogether now: perinatal mental health disorders are temporary and treatable. So, without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode spotlighting PSI's Legal Justice Program.


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Dani:

Welcome to the I Am One podcast. On today's episode, we're sitting down to discuss yet another incredible program here at PSI. We'll be talking with Elizabeth Lilley about the vital work of PSI's Legal Justice Program. This program focuses on educating legal professionals about perinatal mental health disorders and on helping improve the support available to parents and families involved in the legal system in regard to a perinatal mental health disorder. This conversation covers PSI's free resources for legal professionals and for families, volunteer opportunities, and the importance of reducing stigma around perinatal mental health disorders, which are temporary and treatable. All together now, perinatal mental health disorders are temporary and treatable. So without any further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode spotlighting PSI's legal justice program.

Emily:

Okay, party people. Elizabeth Lilley is here from PSI to talk about her program because we all need to know more about it. So can you introduce yourself, name, pronouns, favorite pizza topping? What do we need to know before we jump in?

Dani:

Social security number.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Dani:

I mean, just.

Elizabeth:

Right. Do I need to get some Bitcoin for you as well?

Dani:

Sure.

Elizabeth:

Hello, everyone. My name is Elizabeth Lilley. My pronouns are she and her. And I will say this is a hill I am willing to stand on. Salami is the superior pizza topic.

Dani:

Oh, interesting. Like only salami or like salami must be included in a slice of pizza for it to be just– mm.

Elizabeth:

Salami must be included.

Dani:

Got it.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

I like it.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Dani:

I'm with you. I'm team Elizabeth on the pizza.

Elizabeth:

Thank you. Look at that. Fantastic.

Dani:

Follow up question. Do you like it hot or cold?

Elizabeth:

Hot.

Emily:

Thank you.

Dani:

I'm team cold pizza.

Elizabeth:

I haven't eaten it cold since, you know.

Emily:

College?

Elizabeth:

Yeah. I'm like college days, team cold pizza. But at this juncture, you know, it's-

Dani:

OK, well.

Elizabeth:

It's the little niceties that we can do for ourselves and taking the time to properly reheat your pizza.

Dani:

Or properly chill it, depending on the view.

Emily:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

And we don't use microwaves. We don't use microwaves for the pizza either. It has to go on the pizza cooker.

Dani:

I'll save my pizza preferences for my episode.

Elizabeth:

Okay.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

Okay.

Dani:

Just kidding, Elizabeth. Well, we are so glad to have you here. For any listeners who are unfamiliar, oh, we didn't ask what you do at PSI and what we're here to talk about.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Emily:

Oh.

Dani:

I skipped right ahead. I got totally thrown off of their pizza conversation.

Elizabeth:

I'm sorry.

Dani:

No, don't apologize. I took it somewhere further than I needed to go. Elizabeth, what is it that you do here at PSI?

Elizabeth:

I am the program manager for our legal justice department. So a little bit about legal justice, because I know with that title, you know, everyone jumps kind of sort of like to advocacy, right? But what we are doing is we are prioritizing education.

Emily:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

So what we are doing is we are educating those in the legal realm on perinatal mental health disorders. We're starting with attorneys and we are bringing them up to speed because we can't pay for attorneys for everyone, right? We figure if we educate all the attorneys, then it doesn't matter who you get for your case, right? We are emphasizing the fact that perinatal mental health disorders are temporary and they are treatable.

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

In a nutshell, that's us.

Emily:

I mean, I think the education piece makes perfect sense because then we collectively, whatever that means, are not responsible for pairing people with the right type of attorney. If all attorneys possess the same knowledge, then like the tide rises all the boats.

Elizabeth:

Right. Absolutely. And that's kind of been our thinking. And two, we just want to make sure, right, because we are one organization, how can we have the greatest impact on the legal side of things? And it's like, well, let's educate everyone that's in there. So that way it doesn't matter. Like you said, it doesn't matter who you go to. They have that foundational knowledge and they know the importance of, you know, on top of understanding that perinatal mental health disorders are temporary and treatable. They also understand the importance of when they are employing an expert, that that expert be reproductive specific.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

Because that makes a difference.

Emily:

So I may have a sense of where we're headed here, but so like who exactly does the legal justice program help? Like do people reach out to you and go, I need help? Or are you reaching out and saying, here is the help that we have?

Elizabeth:

A little bit of both. Primarily people reach out to us. So for moms who may be experiencing postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis and their partner has decided to file for divorce and is now utilizing this to obtain custody. Those types of situations is generally when someone will reach out to us. Sometimes if we see like on the criminal side, if we see things in the news, we'll reach out to the attorney and say, hey, your client may have been experiencing perinatal mental health disorders. We'd love to connect you with a reproductive psychiatrist so that way you guys can get that evaluation done to see if that's what it was or what it wasn't. Because it's not an automatic that that's what it is.

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

If that is what it is, we want to make sure that they have the correct expertise there to give their client the best defense they can.

Emily:

That makes perfect sense.

Dani:

So how exactly would like a parent or an attorney reach out to, like it sounds like you do some reach out. If you see stories in the news or somebody shares information about a situation, then you would reach out. But how exactly would parents and or attorneys reach out to you?

Emily:

Yeah, is there a bat signal or like...

Dani:

Are they like, help?

Elizabeth:

You know, I'm working on that.

Dani:

OK.

Elizabeth:

But we are accessible from PSI's website. So postpartum.net.

Dani:

OK.

Elizabeth:

We are under both the professional resources and the get help tag because we're, you know, we operate on both sides. So you can reach us on either of those tags.

Emily:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

You can reach out via email. You can email legaljustice@postpartum.net. That will also bring you to me or if I'm not available, to someone, you know, standing in.

Dani:

Yeah, we'll put links to the things that you just mentioned in the show notes so folks can access that easily. That's really awesome that it's in both places because you're helping two very different groups of folks.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

With the same type of thing. But I'm glad that if somebody is like, I don't even know where to start, and they go to get help on PSA's website, then they can find that link to you.

Emily:

Yeah.

Dani:

I have lots of follow-up questions, Elizabeth. Like, we're going to get into logistics.

Elizabeth:

Fantastic.

Dani:

If somebody reaches out to, you know, touch base with you and wants some help with whatever their situation is, does it cost money? Do they just reach out to you and like do you usually schedule like a zoom meeting or kind of handle stuff? How does it work?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, so if someone reaches out, like if it comes through the helpline or something like that or if it comes on, yeah, so you can also contact the helpline. The helpline will route you to us if, you know, if that's where you need to go.

Dani:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

If you just come to the website there is a form that you can fill out. So once that gets filled out depending how much information and they put on that form, I'll send an email out just to schedule a phone call. So that way we're not playing phone tag.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Because nobody likes to play phone tag. So it's like, here is my calendar. Find a time that works for you so we can talk this through so that we can get you the appropriate help and see if it's something that we can help you with or if it's something that we need to maybe refer you to another organization to help with. So if it's like a parent that's calling for the help, then I'll speak with them, determine what it is exactly they need. And then I will reach out to their attorney if they're working with an attorney. So that way the attorney understands like, hey, this is for you, right? Because we're here to educate the attorneys. So that's ultimately who we are going to be dealing with. But if you contact me and give me your attorney's information, then I'm happy to reach out to your attorney and let them know who we are, what we do. And everyone's usually incredibly appreciative. So our referral service is no cost.

Dani:

Awesome. That's great.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, we could also do like a perinatal mental health 101 type of call with attorneys because sometimes, you know, they'll reach out to us and they're like, I have to be in court, you know, in two days. That's like, well...

Dani:

Let's do the crash course.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, yeah. So it's like, we're probably not going to be able to connect you with, you know, an expert witness. You know, they're not going to be able to review all the files and do all of that stuff in a day. But we can get you with one of our experts to do a quick like one-on-one call so you're understanding like this is how it presents, like it is temporary, it is treatable, those types of things, like they're not going to be diagnosing or anything like that on a 30, 45 minute call.

Dani:

Right.

Elizabeth:

But it just is information for the attorney because a lot of times they don't understand that they're temporary and treatable.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

So it's just enough to get their brain to kind of go, oh, right, just to kind of get that click, number one. And number two, realize what they don't know and then the importance of, OK, maybe I do need to hire a reproductive psychiatrist as an expert to help me with this case, because there is, you know, there's a whole world out there that I was not aware of.

Dani:

Yes.

Elizabeth:

So, yeah. So that call is, you know, obviously there's no cost for that call. Now, once we do connect you with someone, the experts themselves, they do charge a fee.

Dani:

OK.

Elizabeth:

And that is something that we can't get around at this point just because it is a lot of work. Right. There's a lot of hours that go into that.

Emily:

But that's like the expert is charging the lawyer slash client.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. So the expert is charging the attorney. Correct. PSI does not charge for anything that we do. Like I said, so if you're getting that one-on-one call with us, we're not charging for that. If it's something where you're just kind of like, can you connect me with an attorney who has had this kind of, you know, case before I just want to ask like five questions type of thing. And a lot of times we're able to facilitate that, right? Because we have amazing people that want to help that believe in this mission and they are here to help provide information in any way that they can and help in any way that they can. So sometimes we're able to also, you know, facilitate that at no cost. Like, hey, just a quick chat to kind of- and again, the goal is to understand like, OK, there is a lot of stuff that I do not know. I need to sit down and I need to employ somebody now.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Right? Like get like the gist of, OK. Oh, I was thinking this strategy, but that probably isn't going to work. So now I need to sit down and get a full consultation with another attorney or things like that.

Dani:

OK, so for folks who are kind of on a time crunch, attorneys can get a one on one kind of crash course on perinatal mental health disorders. They could help them, you know, if they've got kind of a quick turnaround time. But for folks who have a little bit more time, you can help connect them to expert witnesses.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

And other experts, like expert attorneys in this area regarding perinatal mental health disorders, when they do a consult, are you saying that during a full consult, they might be able to say, here are a few examples of rulings that have supported folks experiencing psychosis, for example?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, they're probably not going to get that deep into it.

Dani:

Oh, okay.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, on that initial call type of thing.

Dani:

Right.

Elizabeth:

But on the criminal side, like we do have a toolkit that attorneys can get. So if it is, if there is a case, a criminal case that comes up, like say or infanticide or something like that, then we can give the attorneys a toolkit that was created by criminal defense attorneys and perinatal mental health experts as well. So we can give that to them. That's kind of like step one if it's that type of case that comes in. So that is something that we do share with them and that is of no charge. And we also do have a seminar that we created with criminal defense attorneys and also perinatal mental health experts. So we do have that and that is going to be rolling out on demand. We have had a couple of live online presentations and now we're going to offer it on demand. So that way they can watch it when they need to and even get some continuing education hours for that.

Dani:

I was wondering about that. The wheels are turning. I was thinking about if there is a law practice, you know, if they want to get a few of their attorneys to come to the seminar or something like that's probably what may happen in the future, possibly?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, that's the hope. That's the hope. We're moving towards it. So we're still, I'd like to think we're still in our infancy. Right? So we're like getting the bulk of the information and the help and making that readily available. And then we can start that big push like we're starting now. We have that big push on the advertisement portion, like to let people know, hey, we are here. These are our resources.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. And then in addition to the criminal presentation, we are getting ready to roll out our family law presentation. So, yes, because that is a large, large percentage of the help seekers that we have.

Dani:

Wow. This is like exclusive information. We're like, rolling out soon.

Elizabeth:

Yes, absolutely.

Emily:

Family law is like divorce, where criminal law would be like something has happened, infanticide, etc.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. So and that's the thing, too. Like, I want to stress that it is not just infanticide, right? It can be neglect or endangerment. And it's not just psychosis, right? Because an extreme bout of depression can bring this. Anxiety can bring this. You know, OCD can bring this. If you're having those things where you can't get to the doctor's office, right? And now they're saying that you're, you know, not taking care of the baby. So there are a lot of things that you might not connect. And that's why I want to stress that it is not just psychosis.

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

And it is not just infanticide that can have you in the legal system. We're here for all of it and all of you.

Emily:

Right. I mean, having had postpartum depression, anxiety and OCD, there was a moment during my divorce where I could absolutely see someone being intimidated and thinking that like they don't have the same amount of authority because they were sick before.

Elizabeth:

The thing about it is that it negates when there truly is a danger or a threat due to, you know, instability or mental disorder.

Emily:

Yes.

Elizabeth:

So when you're trying to use something that was a temporary blip, it just makes the job harder for everyone else, right? Because how is this, you know, how is Child Protective Services supposed to know, right? This is not their wheelhouse. This is not what they're educated in. And when someone is throwing around these things and maliciously, it makes it harder for everyone else, everyone in the system that comes after them. So that's why we are here to educate so that it can stop happening.

Emily:

That's enough of that.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. Yeah. So that, you know, when when someone is trying to pull that card out, whoever they're pulling it out with, the attorney, the social worker, whoever can say, oh, no, no, no. And just shut it down.

Emily:

I'm going to stop you right there.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, absolutely.

Dani:

I really think that answers the question that we had about what you want folks involved in the legal system as a result of lived experience with perinatal mental health disorders to know.

Elizabeth:

It is temporary and it is treatable.

Dani:

And there is support for you personally for getting help. And there is support for you legally, for an attorney or anybody else supporting you in the legal system.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely.

Emily:

Okay, if- I feel like this episode could stand to have like its own little PSA built right on in. So if we were going to make a soundbite that's like, you're a parent, you're a paralegal, you're a lawyer, you're a psychiatrist, you're a therapist, you're a human being, and you're listening to this podcast, you're reading the transcript of this podcast, you are consuming this information. Like, what is the, like the one thing that you hope everyone will take away so that they can take it out into the world?

Dani:

Like providers, legal professionals. What do you want them to know?

Elizabeth:

I want them to know that perinatal mental health is not a weapon to be used in any legal battle. It is temporary. It is treatable. There is help. There is education. Period.

Emily:

Imma- Imma clap that.

Dani:

Yeah, I'm trying not to clap too loud so the mic doesn't pick it up, but I am-

Emily:

Yes.

Dani:

I am golf clapping that, but like, I just want to, I want to clap so loud.

Emily:

Yes.

Dani:

That is so important. And I hope we splash that all over the internet when this episode drops, because yeah.

Emily:

Like, it's another way to have something to weaponize against women, against birthing people, against people of color. Like, I think we're all done with that as a society. That is all. We are all done.

Elizabeth:

It's cringe.

Dani:

Yeah.

Emily:

Yes.

Elizabeth:

Did I just date myself? I just dated myself trying to use the lingo.

Emily:

I mean, I think one of my teenagers would say, like, clock it in response to your, like, soapbox moment.

Elizabeth:

Yeah.

Dani:

I don't know what it means. Did we use that correctly in a sentence? Follow up.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. I'm pretty sure, though, yeah, that the younger kids are like, of all of my flaws that you could pick out, like you're going to you're going to choose the one that wasn't my fault? You know what I mean? Like, I have control over a lot of things that I do, that maybe I shouldn't do or whatnot. Like, you know, and you're going to pick this.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

It's literally biological. Like I had zero, zero choice in this matter.

Dani:

Didn't ask for it.

Elizabeth:

Yeah. Like, you're you're a special kind of special to do that.

Dani:

Perinatal mental health disorders are like an uninvited, unwelcome houseguest. Like, didn't know they were coming. They rang the doorbell. You didn't say come in. And they were like, excellent. I'm sleeping here now.

Emily:

Showed up with a bunch of baggage.

Dani:

They're squatters.

Elizabeth:

Took their shoes off, had holey socks. And yeah.

Dani:

They stink.

Elizabeth:

Yes.

Dani:

They don't take the garbage out or help cook.

Elizabeth:

Do the dishes. Nothing.

Dani:

They're annoyed with the meals we're providing. Anyway, well.

Elizabeth:

I'm like, wait, was that the children or was that like, wait, what?

Emily:

The lines are blurred sometimes.

Dani:

Elizabeth, I have a question. I was wondering, many programs at PSI have volunteer opportunities. Are there volunteer opportunities in the legal justice program for legal professionals? Or do you reach out specifically to folks as expert witnesses to help attorneys that reach out to you, to help parents? Do you, as the program manager, reach out to folks that are helping you with other people that need help? Or is there an opportunity for people to say, hey, I'm interested in volunteering my services?

Elizabeth:

So PSI, we are a volunteer organization, right? We are volunteer driven. So we always have volunteer opportunities, and that is true of the legal justice program as well. Because things are so cost prohibitive, right? Like because when that mother comes to you or to the attorney and they're like, my bank account is frozen. Like I have no access to any funds because I don't have my own account. And I was in the hospital getting help and I come out and I have nowhere to live now. We want for their attorney that they are able to get, you know, because likely some of these attorneys are going low bono, pro bono and things like that. So they're not even going to have the money to be paying these experts either. So when we get those one on one calls, right, and when we get those attorney connection calls, I'm going to have to think of a cute name for the attorney calls.

Dani:

Tune in later.

Emily:

Right.

Dani:

We'll do it.

Emily:

We'll workshop it.

Elizabeth:

We're counting on volunteers to answer those calls. We're counting on volunteers to take those calls. So we always need legal professionals that have experience with mental health cases to be willing to speak with attorneys who don't, right? Because everyone's got to have a first time. So sometimes you get that client and you are compelled to help them, but you realize like, I know the law, but I haven't connected this aspect to the law yet in a case, you know, in my professional doings. So to have someone to at least, I don't want to say mentor because I don't want to like make it seem like you're going to be with them the entire trial and, you know, for months and years on end. But to have someone that they can call and at least know, like to instill a little bit of confidence that, oh, okay, this was my first instinct and it is correct, you know, type of thing on which direction that case is going to go, those types of things.

Emily:

Right.

Elizabeth:

Yes, absolutely. We need volunteers. We are accepting volunteers on both sides, attorneys and experts.

Dani:

If somebody is interested in that, how can they volunteer? Is there like a form that they can fill out? Is it best just to reach out to legaljustice@postpartum.net?

Elizabeth:

Both.

Dani:

Oh, OK. Yes.

Elizabeth:

Our page on PSI's website has been revamped. So anything you can need, if you want to volunteer, if you want to donate funds, if you want to, or if you need the toolkit or if you need to be connected with an expert. Those are all clickable links and it will take you to the correct form you need to fill out. And if you don't want to do that, you can always email legaljustice@postpartum.net and we will get back to you.

Dani:

Bam.

Emily:

Right on.

Dani:

This is incredible. Every episode we do. I work at PSI and I still- there's just like so many little details, that even if you are marinating in this amazing- this is a terrible analogy. Anyway, I'm not marinating in anything, but I'm surrounded by incredible support, incredible programs, providing support to professionals and families that are looking for a little bit of help. And they're just always like little things that I'm learning every single episode. So thanks for sharing all this today, Elizabeth. Before we hop off, is there anything else that we missed that you wanted to mention?

Elizabeth:

Yes, actually, I did not mention.

Dani:

Oh.

Elizabeth:

So we are also in works, right? Yay, trainings, trainings, trainings.

Dani:

Yes, yes. Ooh.

Elizabeth:

We love education. That's our thing.

Dani:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

So we are also creating a training for expert witnesses. So, yes. So for those that are in the field and know it, you know, inside and out, but need that little extra confidence boost, I'm going to use that again for being inside the courtroom because that's a whole other beast. You can know your game in and out and, you know, we don't want you to get torn apart once you get there. So- or once you step up to bat, step up to the plate. There you go.

Dani:

Sports analogies.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, we are in development with that with Dr. Gina Wong and Dr. Diana Barnes.

Emily:

Okay.

Elizabeth:

Yes, because we know Dr. Barnes is like one of the authorities on this.

Dani:

Any idea when that might roll out? I mean, I've got a hot mic, so I'm just going to ask all the questions that are popping in my head.

Elizabeth:

I'm not giving you dates on that because...

Dani:

Okay, but it's in the works.

Elizabeth:

But it is in the works. It is in the works.

Dani:

Okay.

Emily:

That is cool.

Elizabeth:

Once it's ready to roll out... I will give you guys the exclusive.

Dani:

Oh!

Elizabeth:

The inside scoop on that when it drops. Yeah.

Emily:

Yes.

Dani:

But I'm sure there will be information about that in PSI's newsletter. If you don't subscribe to PSI's newsletter, there's one for parents. There's one for professionals, for the Alliance. There's all types of information that can come your way in your inbox every month. We'll actually drop links to the newsletters in the chat, because I'm sure when really awesome stuff like a training for expert witnesses is ready to roll out, that's the type of thing that's going to be in the professional newsletter. I'm sure it'll be online, too. But check back because there is no official date. But Elizabeth says it's in the works. And I am amped about that.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely.

Dani:

That is cool. OK. Anything else, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth:

I want to say thank you to our volunteers because, again, PSI is a volunteer organization. We run with volunteer support, because of them. Like, all of this is possible. Like, you know, they're out here saving lives, like literally.

Dani:

We say it all the time. Volunteers are like the heartbeat of PSI.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely.

Dani:

Couldn't do it without volunteers. So I'll join you in thanking all of the legal justice volunteers for making–

Emily:

Things more just.

Elizabeth:

Yes. Yes.

Dani:

OK, well, Emily, would you like to take us out? Elizabeth,

Emily:

I want to make funny jokes about other things I know about you because I love you as a human, but I'm not going to do that because I think what you said was like the most important takeaway, which is like stop weaponizing treatable mental health conditions. Just stop.

Dani:

Periodt. Sorry.

Elizabeth:

It has been clocked. Sorry.

Dani:

I mean, there's teenagers in the house. I'm... But honestly.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, absolutely.

Dani:

Thank you so much.

Elizabeth:

Thank you for having me.

Dani:

Absolutely. It's our pleasure. We're so glad that you were willing to come on the pod and share all this information because we want as many people to know about all the incredible stuff you're doing in PSI's legal justice program. Did you have something else?

Elizabeth:

I do. One more I forgot.

Dani:

Oh, bonus material.

Elizabeth:

I'm sorry. You know, this is why people of a certain age need to write lists.

Dani:

Also me, with a list.

Elizabeth:

PSI's annual conference coming up in June, legal justice will be doing the keynote on Saturday. So come out. We have got a panel and we are going to be talking about some good stuff. Like if you need a reason to go to California. Aside from the food.

Emily:

Other than the food.

Dani:

Oh, yeah.

Emily:

California has good food.

Elizabeth:

Yes, they do.

Dani:

Yeah, we're going to be full of the whole conference. Keynote on Saturday at PSI's annual conference, 2026, in Los Angeles, California. End of June. I'm not sure when this episode will come out.

Emily:

Maybe right before. If you're in the LA area, go to the conference.

Dani:

Stop by, see if you can register.

Emily:

Drop what you're doing. Go!

Dani:

And if you're going to the conference–

Emily:

Don't miss this keynote.

Dani:

Don't sleep on it.

Elizabeth:

Don't sleep on it.

Dani:

Is that what the kids are saying? Was that cool?

Elizabeth:

I think so. I don't know.

Dani:

Cool.

Emily:

I'm so not cool that I have never even heard that.

Dani:

Really?

Emily:

Yeah, really.

Dani:

Okay. Well, anyway. Elizabeth, thank you.

Elizabeth:

Thank you for having me.

Dani:

Thanks for tuning in to the I Am One podcast. Check out today's show notes where we'll drop links to all the important things that we mentioned in this episode. Please consider sharing about I Am One on social media and following and rating our show wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. It only takes a minute of your time and, well, that'll help our collective mission of bringing resources and local support to folks worldwide. From everyone here at PSI, thanks again for listening.

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Dani Giddens (she/her)

Host
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Emily Jankowski (she/her)

Co-host