Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Beyond the Scorpion Kick: Taekwondo's Political Reality
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"We're saying what everyone's thinking." These words from a military veteran to Coach Moreno capture the essence of what makes The Warehouse 15 podcast essential listening for the Taekwondo community. Coaches TJ, Moreno, and Young pull no punches as they dissect the uncomfortable realities facing modern Taekwondo.
The conversation weaves through multiple critical topics, beginning with a comparison of old versus new competition styles. While watching footage of past tournaments, the coaches acknowledge that rose-colored nostalgia often obscures the flaws of "old school" Taekwondo. This balanced perspective sets the tone for their nuanced analysis of today's sport landscape.
International competitions reveal troubling trends, with countries like Uzbekistan, Iran, and Kazakhstan demonstrating remarkable depth of talent that outpaces American competitors. The coaches identify several contributing factors: geographic proximity allowing more frequent competition between these nations, increased governmental support following Olympic success, and the economic realities of the World Taekwondo ranking system. This system, they argue, creates an unintended form of "economic racism" by disproportionately benefiting European countries whose athletes can easily attend numerous ranking events without excessive travel costs.
Perhaps most alarming is the skyrocketing cost of participation. Coach TJ shares his shock at paying $225 just to register his daughter for a basic local tournament. Such steep barriers contradict Taekwondo's original appeal as an accessible "sport for all" and limit growth at the grassroots level.
The podcast also tackles the effectiveness of national training centers, the politics of World Taekwondo governance, and parallels with collegiate athletics' evolving landscape. Throughout, the coaches demonstrate their deep love for the sport while refusing to shy away from its troubling challenges.
Subscribe to join these straight-shooting Taekwondo masters as they continue to address the issues others won't, including next week's philosophical debate with special guest Dr. Stephen Kaepner on the evolution of Taekwondo training and competition.
Introduction and Facility Talk
Speaker 3it is the warehouse 15 and for and I mean literally. For once, tj was on time. So, we are extremely happy. We saw his beautiful dojang. It cost $1.50, and I asked him what it cost and he said you know it is what it is, but it is beautiful, it is in. North Carolina and if you don't know where North Carolina is you're in.
Speaker 3New York, you make a left, keep going, keep going, keep going. When you don't see any more dentist office, that's where his school is. So congratulations on a beautiful facility. How are you doing today, coach?
Speaker 1I'm good. I'm good, sheldon. Thank you, definitely excited about the facility they should make you, mayor of the city, look at that smile.
Speaker 3You got man, that's a lot of teeth Of Concord. You like that? That's good.
Speaker 1That's good. It's definitely exciting to kind of have a space and be able to do some things out there, looking forward to some events pretty soon. Now you got a reason to come.
Speaker 3I'm coming. Are there any other programs in North Carolina, like, is there an Olympic training center or something?
Speaker 1There are, I don't know. I'm in Concord. I'll find the address for you. I'm in Concord.
Speaker 3Yeah, Send me the address, and it shouldn't. Hopefully it's not the directions like turn left at the big tree, go as far as the crow can fly and then look for the rock.
Speaker 1This is the Cali guy right here. You got to make a ride at the Starbucks and then go down the street till you find the bank.
Speaker 3You know exactly. Oh geez Well, Starbucks, and I could find it. Coach Moreno. How are you doing today, sir? I'm good.
Speaker 2I think there's a lot of love in here. Look, I got my San peak camp that I did a couple weeks back, and then I'm looking at Coach Jennings' shirt high performance, mr Jensa. I'm going there tomorrow. So, man, it's just like everything just blends. Everything is perfect. Look, I got my nice empanadas I'm going to eat when I'm in the middle of this training.
Speaker 3Don't make me jelly, I know Jensa.
Speaker 2He's never invited me to anything.
Speaker 3Nothing, zero. Oh, he sponsored you. You finally got a sponsor.
Speaker 1Shout out to my sponsor.
Speaker 3Oh, remind me again, yeah.
Speaker 1No, he gave it to me as a gift when I went there for a seminar I did a while back.
Speaker 3I want to thank the Budo brothers again. I'm wearing your beautiful in this chilly not California weather. I'm doing a CPR. I was helping set up a CPR class at my son's school today and I said how long is the class? They said three hours. I go three hours. I said I know New York CPR.
Speaker 2And they're like what?
Speaker 3I said New York CPR man. I said yo, you better get up, you're going to die. But anyway, we'll start with today's joke I wanted to start with one thing before we get started, because I know there's been all this hyperbole and you know whatever about whatever. But I wanted to give you guys just a sight of what I had seen.
Speaker 1Oh Lord, no, no, I'm not done. I never know.
Speaker 3I'm not done. Hold on a second, let me find it. Let me go back. Oh, I went the wrong way, but anyway I'll find it here. Let me just search it, because I think it's always a nice way to start. You guys can already see in the search bar what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1All the school tech ones.
Speaker 3Yeah, versus foot farting A new. I'll just put new. See what comes up. All right, okay, here we go.
Old vs New Taekwondo Videos
Speaker 1I'm just taking a random thing and I was a good match, though, yeah that's a short one.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's not a great video.
Speaker 3Not a great video Not a great video.
Speaker 1I wish I had one of those buzzers Okay well.
Speaker 3Here it is. Here it is Sorry.
Speaker 2Sorry, not sorry this is actually my 50th take. Oh my God, that's okay, though Hold on a second. Hold on a second. I'm going to get past. Oh my gosh, that's okay, though, because the script isn't Hold on a second Hold on a second.
Speaker 1I'm going to get past.
Speaker 3Bang holly, swing holly. That was actually a good shot. That was a good shot. That actually was one of the rare moments of something beautiful.
Speaker 1You're failing again. That's just too in a row.
Speaker 3I know it's too, in a row I don't know what I'm looking at.
Speaker 2That's one of my friends, carlos Sanzores, but to be honest, to be fair, I'm going to go against it that guy was horrible.
Speaker 3Oh, look at all this kicking.
Speaker 2Look at this beauty man.
Speaker 1he's that was 68, 63, 68.
Speaker 2They're falling down. They're not hitting the chest, they're flocking. Look at these guys. That was 68, 63, 68. They're falling down. They're not hitting the chest guard, they're blocking, kick each other in the butt. Look at these guys. Can't even stand up.
Speaker 3Not a scorpion kick could be seen.
Speaker 2Running out of bounds, falling. Guard is all out of control. No balance.
Speaker 3Look at this guy on the floor. Oh, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this.
Speaker 2Oh, I think I'm going to start to cry Unbelievable, all right, all right, I think I've made my point.
Speaker 3All right, let me try to figure out how to turn it off now.
Speaker 2I heard you do the great bite and so I've been ducking and dodging on some Taekwondo debates and stuff like that. Who's that I've been ducking and dodging them on some Taekwondo debates and stuff like that? Who's that? So, grandmaster, doctor, philosopher, buddhist Monk, master Stephen Kaepner, if you'd like to be on our call, I would love to have you. I would love to debate your philosophical Debate. Yeah, yeah, I'll debate him. Let me get this right, let me get this right.
Speaker 3I just want to understand, because you're throwing the gauntlet down so you want to debate dr double doctor, not single doctor to phd. Dr stephen capner, ninth don grandmaster, joined the club with me and I'm going to see his ceremony. I invited the both of you. I think there's a limit for uh okay, that's a great resume, but, dr. Grandmaster, I only started, I only started.
Speaker 2Hasn't seen a modern Taekwondo match in about 10 years.
Speaker 3So oh okay, that sounds like the gauntlet has been thrown. All right, good, yeah, I'll judge.
Speaker 1I'll judge.
Speaker 3He and I tried to watch one once and then he's one of my best seniors, so I'm only kidding.
Speaker 2But second of all, actually I want to say something real fast because I'm not going to say the guy's name, but he was a former military guy. I don't know if he's watching. I saw him at a competition last week and he said something to me that made me really happy about the podcast guys. He went up to me and said hey, coach, he goes. I've been watching the podcast and I enjoy you guys. I go oh, thanks, we're trying to have fun with the blah, blah, blah. And then he looked at me and said you're saying you guys are saying what everyone's thinking, and I was just like.
Speaker 2It made me so happy because I don't want to say his name, because I didn't ask him if I could put him out there like that. I don't want to do that. But it made me happy because I know we do this for fun. I know we talk about crazy stuff, but when I hear little things like that, I mean I feel like we're doing the right thing, you know. So kudos to you know both you guys for for doing all this stuff. But people are listening and people are watching and people I think we're almost the voice for them, so I think it's really cool guys I think that I think that's a.
Speaker 3I think that's a perfect segue into that new nonprofit that we're running for you, the Mex I Can Profit. So if you want to make a donation to Mex, I Can, you can make that donation and make it directly to me and I'll make sure it gets to the right place, there you go.
Speaker 3So Mex I Can, mex I Can, but it's good, I mean. I think that's truth. I think the truth needs to be spoken, and I think there are so few people. You usually start to speak the truth at two or three points in your life. One is you're old enough and you don't care and you don't have. You don't have anything anybody can take from you, nor do you care if they do take it. And then there are those that speak it all the time, and then there are those that just become senile, like me, and then they start to speak because they can't do anything else. But with all that said, I heard there was a tournament going on somewhere.
International Tournament Analysis
Speaker 2Yeah, there's a lot going on right now. I mean there's the Asian President's Cup and then there's also the African President's Cup. One is in Ethiopia, obviously, the African Cup and then the other one is in China right now, which, um, I haven't been able I've even been able to watch all of it kind of live, but it's on youtube. So it's always cool to go back and see what's going on. But I tell you what you know, tj. I know one of my athletes were talking about one of the best guys from from the pan am union or organization, fighting somebody at a world cup, and it wasn't even close. He goes, that's one of our best people. And I said, you know, I, I mean I while I agree sometimes that some of these other countries are are more advanced and bigger and better than us, um, I have to agree, man, the depth, the depth of these tournaments that I'm watching over there is a little bit scary. You know, I'm looking at five and six iranians five and six kore.
Speaker 2Of course it's in China, so there's a bunch of Chinese. The Kazakh team is doing good. I'm really excited. On Monday I'm leaving to Uzbekistan with the Brazil group and man Uzbekistan looks like they're on fire. These guys are. They look like they're on a I don't want to say next level, but they're definitely separating themselves from people. So we've got a lot of making up to do. I'm not sure what you think about that, tj.
Speaker 1I think it's always been a little scary over there. You know what I mean. We've always known that historically that's a strong side of the world. I think that's a side of the world that is, I'm going to say, has fallen in love with the sport of Taekwondo and and push to advance it and pay to advance it and work to advance it, and, and there I mean, as you, like you just said, they're definitely out front. You know what I mean. I mean even when I looked at some of the junior stuff in comparison from the junior world championships and stuff like that, these, these kids are, or these, these systems are starting their professional levels I really early, if you ask me. I think with the more success they have at the Olympic level, the more support they get from the bottom and they push the bottom of the pile.
Speaker 2That's what's interesting is like. I mean, coach Young, you know, back in the day there were some good Jordan fighters, but as a country they haven't been big. But in 2016, when Abugas, the 68 guy, wins the gold medal, all of a sudden, the next four years, boom. Jordan's got money and resources and all of a sudden, all these athletes are showing up. Rashid Tauf wins in 68 in 2021 in Tokyo, uzbekistan, just through the roof. But I think what I'm seeing now is that they're showing up to these opens deep Before we saw them at the world championship.
Speaker 2Okay, there's one good Iranian, but when you start to see four and five and some of the Iranians I'm seeing over there, they're older, like you know what I'm saying. They're not these young pups coming up just trying to. They're like these chiseled dudes that are. They look strong. And the same thing with Uzbekistan. I'm looking at these athletes that I don't know, maybe they just got a chance to to show their stuff because all of a sudden, they have a little funding, a little bit of support. That, to me, is what's kind of scary.
Speaker 1So um, you know, yeah, the level. No, the level is high. No, obviously the level is high and, like I said, the competition between those countries always high and I think they get to stay again. Going back to the regional thing, they stand in front of each other way more often than we probably stand in front of them Me too, you know.
Speaker 3They're a little involved with each other. In English they say Kazakhstan, so that's a stressful first syllable Kazakhstan. I was just trying to help Coach Moreno. He was stumbling a little bit. So, I figured we got to get Kazakhstan.
Speaker 2Sorry about that, no, no.
Speaker 3Sorry, not sorry, but those countries are strong.
Speaker 1I think they come back with Olympic medals and it's probably the highest finishes in their country for any Olympic games. That's what it was in Jordan, right, it was their first Olympic gold medal, something big like that. I think that's history changing. Yeah, but what the countries?
Speaker 3realize is this, and this is what we realize that the olympic council of asia. With a little bit of money you can change your country's metal output. So we looked at sports. Where does it require? And this is the ideal of the olympics. The olympics is what can sport for all be? So it means it's got to be a sport that can be done anywhere. It's got to be a sport that doesn't require it, doesn't have a high bar of entry with regard to finance, and then it does find correct. Right. And then the second one is. The last one is it's got to be something which the technical component of it can be learned quickly and mastered thereafter, and taekwondo is perfect for that. You know, swimming is swimming is not necessarily, but taekwondo is perfect for that. You know, swimming is swimming is not necessarily, but taekwondo isn't equestrian, not so much so when you're looking at a country, if you have fast athletic, agile athletes and you say what can they do? Track and field for sure, taekwondo for another. Um, so I mean they. This is why I.
Speaker 2I'm going to try to spoon feed you because you'll see where I'm going with this. Like again on the Olympic global movement, one of the things that was attractive is that it was that it wasn't so expensive, correct? I mean, now there's electronics and stuff like that, and it was open to a lot of countries that didn't have resources. Like you said, it was very simple to get in and in not a short time there was resources where these athletes could go up very quickly technically. Am I wrong or right?
Speaker 3Right and now? But now here's, you've just hit the second part, where the rub is right and the idea is originally. The idea is, when you do a sport, sport for all, soccer, soccer is played everywhere and the reason is you just need a ball. You don't even necessarily need a good field. No, taekwondo, you need bodies, you don't need uniforms, you don't need belts, you don't need targets. You can get, you can teach it pretty much anywhere. But now, when you get to the second component of it people trying to excel or make an olympic team with the qualification process, you're putting people in a place where it's difficult, not impossible, but challenging to make an olympic team because of the amount of money it takes to a develop an athlete, b to fund the athlete actually making the qualification process let me ask you something.
Speaker 1For me it's the ranking. I think it's the ranking. The ranking kind of dictated and changed all that stuff, like I. I understand that. I know that's where every all, like all the modern sports that went in that direction. As a ranking there's a bracketing, blah, blah, blah. But there was also something said about showing up to the tournament and you know the bracket is what it is and I know we can talk oh, there was cheating, there was a manipulation of the bracket and putting people here. There's everywhere. But I think that changes everything. Now you gotta go get ranking, get ranking points. You want. There's a race to top whatever. Top five, top six, that's my point exactly.
Speaker 3In other words, now you have put yourself, in other words you have economically disadvantaged certain countries. You have, you've done racism, just economic racism. So now, if you're in a country that can't afford it, or you have a country that doesn't have an established Olympic Committee funding system, or you're in a country where the Ministry of Sport funds it, which is the majority of the countries, they say you know, we could do this, or we can do jump roping for our entire country and get these fat bodies into shape. So why should we spend $2 million on a small sport that when we watch, we don't understand, and the most that we're going to put on a podium of two people? Now, if those two people can win ie in the case of jordan and stuff like this. But that's why these other countries, like ubekistan, kazakhstan and and you know, the countries that can afford it, that have gas reserves, the ones that are interesting, that don't perform, are the ones that have money but culturally don't have a history of sport, and that's, I hate to say it, saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2But they're coming up in Teguando. They're coming, yeah, because now they're doing the Aspire Academies, but Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 3Think about Kuwait. The average Kuwaiti gets a pension for life. So is he going to go sweat in a gym for six to eight hours to become a world? It doesn't matter to him. He gets married, he gets. He gets money to get married, gets a house. He goes to college. His college is paid for entirely. He comes out of college, goes into society. Minimum of three or four hundred thousand, that's it. So you know. Imagine that here. So they're losing athletes to complacency and quality of life. The athletes that, excuse me, do well historically are the ones that this is their choice between poverty and a life. So when they get in the ring they're like, oh dude, I got to win so I can have a life. But I apologize, Go ahead.
Speaker 2No, so I was going to man. I got to.
Speaker 1But wouldn't that be the same for other? So you're saying other sports don't have the poverty or life thing. It still affects other sports too. Right, it affects every sport.
Speaker 3You can't name a sport that some of the countries that I mentioned have. Even you look at their watch. The Olympic team march in. Just watch the opening ceremonies and then you see it sort of affects every sport.
Speaker 2What I was going to say because TJ, you took me in a different direction, but I like what you said, like the ranking changed everything. Well, first of all, I want to say that Taekwondo was supposed to be an entry, a sport, a sport that requires so much financial input, and that's why it was for all and that's why we excel with so many countries. Now it's becoming in the digital age, it's becoming more expensive. But, tj, you said the ranking changed all that too, because you're right, young, it kind of discriminated against countries that don't have a lot of resources.
Speaker 2But I think, while it was well-intentioned to have a world ranking, it benefited one part of the world and that's Europe because of the proximity and the geography of it. It did not help at all South or Central America. It didn't even help Asia, because Asia is Asia. They're going to do martial arts regardless. So when I look at this, is it the duty of the WT to reassess this and say you know what? It was well-intentioned, but over the last 10 years, one group of the world has really dominated in the rankings, in the results.
Speaker 3They want that, though the Europeans want it.
Speaker 1They want to have it, the Europeans love it.
Olympic Funding Challenges
Speaker 3And the reason they love it is they are like to be frank. The Europeans in proximity are the same as the United States, with Kentucky to you know whatever North Carolina, and so when you can get the majority of the points by just going on a plane out two, three hours away and not have to get on a 16-hour flight, that's a different world. So the Euros love it. And the reason the Euros love it is they don't have to run the WTF or the WT or whatever it's called. The reason they don't have to run it is they do run it. They run the part of it that matters. So Cho and his clown show for lack of a better word or probably the most apropos word I can think of there's nobody in it. They don't have a brain trust that can fix it. So rumor is Cho's going to run again, unless you know, cirrhosis of the liver gets him. But and then after that it'll be Yang Jinban and Yang Jinban's worse.
Speaker 3Yang Jinban is the reason you have pushing, because in his warped mind of taekwondo, 20 years ago, when he we had this conversation in his room down in Yongin, he was like oh, you can eliminate, uh, a grabbing if you allow pushing. I mean you can eliminate people punching people in the body if you let them kick you allow pushing. I mean you can eliminate people punching people in the body if you let them kick them in the balls. I mean, what kind of rationale is that? So you know his rationale, for it has destroyed the sport.
Speaker 3Now, if you put that guy in charge, cho's inept. That's different. He's ignorant and inept. Yang Jinban is not ignorant, nor is he inept. He's skilled. He's a skilled politician. He's got a napoleon complex and he would use that napoleon complex to enforce even further his idea of what taekwondo would be. The shame of it is there was a point where he was respected by some of the best players for strategic stuff and, if you remember, he did the original education tapes, the turk, the educational resource channel or whatever it was called, and he did a lot of great tapes. This guy I don't know what kool-aid he's drinking, what version of flavored sojo he's drinking, but this guy has destroyed the sport but you know, I think it's.
Speaker 2It's like anything. Well, things are well-intentioned at the beginning. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's the truth of the matter when there's no checks and balances from these guys anymore and they start to run anything. It's like they're a guy and then they get supported and it's just here. It's very few times where they get people on the outside that will chime in, and if they do, they're afraid to because they're going to be looked at poorly. I'm sorry, TJ.
Speaker 3Okay, so here's the flash quiz Ready. And this is like. I had a drummer in my band. We would argue about music all the time and he didn't like the songs I picked. So he loved Iron Maiden and I said, okay, quick, name three Iron Maiden tunes that are known. He got to one. So here goes your flash quiz. You ready, guys? Wt quiz you ready? Name five non Koreans that run the organization.
Speaker 1Yeah, silence. Oh, hold on a second.
Speaker 3Mic drop, All right great.
Speaker 3Now, dude, you want one better than that Name, one in the kooky one, yeah, yeah, so you know the problem is starting to sound similar, right? Here's the problem. There's a nationalism, a nepotism, sycophants around him who want to be close to the fire Jay Warwick, steve McNally the list goes on. And, by the way, including others in the sport who, out of respect for them as fighters, I won't mention their names. They're hanger-ons because they get to go to the show, they get to hang out, they get to kiss the ring, they get to drink soju and scotch and they get to hang out close to the fire. They don't care what happens to the sport because they're not doing it anymore, and that's where the shame comes in. So, fundamentally, as an athlete who's done the sport, as an administrator who's administered the sport, as a guy who continues to perpetuate the sport all of us do we have a philosophical, moral or ethical obligation to continue to make it better. The one thing I will say about karate they're not trying to make it better.
Speaker 1No, no, hold on, they're not trying to make it better.
Speaker 3Let me talk about karate, for a moment At least. With karate, whether you like it or you hate it, they try to hold on to what they believe to be their aesthetic, their moral, ethical framework of how to do it. Now, you can love or hate it, but it's like fencing. I could make fencing way more exciting. They have their way, they have their thing. They didn't compromise it to any great degree and it's still fencing. And now you take that same argument for karate, who didn't compromise all that much. Or you take that same argument to judo, who compromises a little, and then take it, and then take it to fencing. And then y'all go to taekwondo. What did they do? They did they. They did the monkey dance. They they're like hey, look at me, hey, keep me in the olympics, look, oh, you don't like the cheating? All right, we'll make it really dumb and no fun, but there won't be any cheating anymore. And it's still cheating. Because who controls the match now? More than anyone who controls the match, the referee.
Speaker 2Worse, because now, instead of taking three to lose, just takes one guy I mean anyway, I mean I look at my point about this, was I forgot where we're talking about? You know the entry level into it? But I mean one of the things that I was going to bring up is like I just I just signed up daughter, my 11 year old daughter, for a tournament within the organization, usa organization, and it cost me right for this and I think we touched on this earlier yeah, $190 to register, a $5 administration fee. I thought I was done. I'm like damn. And then when I picked her division, her weight category, it was $30 more. The register is $190. To pick your division, it's $30. I'm like $225 to compete at a tournament. That's not even like a how much was US Open Like $160?.
Speaker 1How is?
Speaker 3that Folks that website again is wwwmexi-cancom you know what, and?
Speaker 1send your checks. I think it was like 160 or something like that.
Speaker 2I looked the other day there was probably four or five hundred people signed up for a three-day event and you gotta throw in that that's pomse little kids. I'm like, imagine again. I'm just saying putting out there I know that's not their concern, but imagine you just as one of these weird divisions and you're light or you're heavy and you have one or two people in your division, maybe nobody. You've been $235 plus air for episodes and it just there's gotta be a better way to do it and to qualify for nationals, right you go, you qualify for nationals, I mean.
Speaker 2And if you you medal, you get into the final. Yeah, there's no, it's just show up and qualify.
Speaker 1I mean just yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2You qualify as soon as you do it for states or I don't know man, it's just, I was really, I was next time, next time you're in kentucky, that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3Kentucky is pretty close to north, whatever car, so I thought, this was not a thing. It's a thing. Who knew?
Speaker 2I was a little shocked by that. To be honest with you guys. I was just like 235. If I'm just you know I got two kids fighting. If I'm doing two divisions, I mean I'm just like this is dude just imagine if you had to travel to the event.
Speaker 3You had two kids fighting you, had one kid fighting you, your wife and your daughter have to get a hotel room and then, because they cut a deal with the hotel room, you got to do certain things at the hotel. And so you know it's a money train and I don't mind if the money is going back to athletes, but nothing has changed, though.
Speaker 1Nothing has changed. Forget that.
Speaker 3You're definitely not going back to the athletes, but it's not like you show up to these places and they're like super nice or it's decked out or you got all these amenities or something like that. It's the same shit. Definitely definitely not like a california gold medal or peak performance gym. What do you have now?
Speaker 2like you have, I mean I think it's good, but it's like you have virtual credentials.
Speaker 3I mean it's stuff like it's great, so they're saving money that's my point they're saving my point, and it's good to save money, though if you're spending the money in the right place, I'm not opposed to saving money.
Speaker 1No, I understand, but it's not. Again, we just go back to the top of everything. I say You're not funding anybody, you're not using it for anybody. I got a little weird nugget for you.
Speaker 2I mean kind of flipping the thing in Tijuana, I mean. So I heard now for the I don't know if you heard this, tj, Maybe I told you For the under-22 Pan Am Games, young under-22 Pan Am Games is official sport. In order to coach at that, you have to have a PAT-2 coaching certification. Okay, so that's a regional and you had to take it in person and there was only two, one in I don't know when it was, but it's passed already and they just put out this requirement, supposedly in writing on April 15th. So I'm just saying for the record, I know that Brazil, canada, haiti I'm almost positive USA none of those coaches have gone to the certification, but they won't accept the WTGOL. I can understand if you don't have any certification, but if you got the highest of the high and and they won't accept that everything else falls under it.
Speaker 2Yeah, but so I don't know what's going to come of this, because obviously there's a bunch of coaches that wouldn't be able to coach their athletes for their country at this event. So I don't know if that's going to get fixed or not, but I thought that was crazy well, let me tell you how to get fixed.
Speaker 3So here's what you do. It's like training a dog or a cat. So you get a bottle of scotch and you put it on a table, and then every time, Cho Senor, Cho Cho. Jefe doesn't do his job, but ultimately it is. Wt has the right under its rules to enforce rules over any member nation association.
Speaker 2I think this will get fixed.
Speaker 3It has to get fixed.
Speaker 1Take away the scotch Take away the scotch?
Speaker 3No scotch for you no soup for you, just take away the scotch. Oh no, are we? Bringing your beautiful daughter here.
Speaker 2I'm going to do this because I'm going to make her. She's been wearing this goopy Come here, come here, go. You're going to laugh. No, don't take it off.
Speaker 3Don't they send the kids to school in Florida?
Speaker 2Bring your child to a work day, but I don't work until later. But look at this.
Speaker 3I don't know, tell me, does she look like a cockatoo? Come here, come here, that is beautiful. Show her pictures of you in 1988. Say, daddy, I remember your hair in 1988. You look like a damn parrot. You look like.
Speaker 2Ignatz from Crazy Cat. Hey, it's because you guys did it to me. Listen, TJ. Oh, I saw your hair dude.
Speaker 1I saw your hair dude. That band hair dude felt crazy. Oh, I saw your hairdo. I saw your hairdo. That band hairdo is crazy. Can I go? That's a whole different level.
Speaker 2How far can safe sport go back? Because I ain't going to say it, but I was bullied and thrown into a dryer machine and turned on and amongst other things, so I don't know. I think I'm getting PTSD from that right now.
Speaker 3I think you can get some money. I don't need money. I think you can get some money.
Speaker 2I don't need no money.
Speaker 3Max.
Speaker 2I can Max, I can no, but I just those two things kind of caught me today or last week, the entropy into like basically a local event and then thinking about, here we go.
Speaker 3It started with a brick. That's all I'm going to say. What?
Speaker 2the heck is I mean? What do you find this?
Speaker 3You know, you know you know how hard it is to be me and be creative so that I can make you guys, you know, enjoy your lives a little bit. I mean it's not easy, I noticed bit I mean it's not easy, I noticed you still haven't gotten rid of that picture if you just slide a little to the I mean, at least my picture looks like I'm wearing headphones.
Speaker 1Oh yeah you know like that's not why he did it. His head's just big and it fits in the middle I do have a big head.
Speaker 3I didn't realize. I took some pictures. I went to the orthodontist yesterday because I have a tooth tilting in the back and they're like, oh yeah, I'm like dude, I'll be dead by the time you fix this, but the um. And then they took pictures of my smile in my face and they're like smile, not, I can't smile, I'm not a smiler. But I was like dude, is that my face? Is that really what my neck looks like in my face? So I'm gonna start. You're gonna see me. I'll be like this now.
Speaker 1There was a time we always thought going back to um, yeah, you want to tell me more about your neck. I don't think I can take you more about your neck, please like this. But going back to like the organization, how you know you were benefited from all that stuff, like that, it's the, it's the organization of the cop. We talk about the competition and the level of the competitions. Now we can talk about the people entered, but it's the way they're set up, that's the way they're run, it's the way they're put together. I mean, we're we're playing at a disadvantage the whole time. You know, I know, I know we've always said that historically a little bit, but I'm gonna think I think it's worse now. You know, we got tournaments getting canceled, tournaments getting moved, tournament not enough people showing up. It can get worse. Literally not that much. Going on it can get worse.
Speaker 2Don't trust me to get worse.
Speaker 3So, like at the olympic level, I'll tell you what's going. You already know what's going, but I'll tell you what's going on at the Olympic and the Asian game level. The Asian games have become so unmanageable and so expensive that only a handful of countries can pull it off, and in fact most of the countries don't bid. And then when they do bid and they realize the true cost associated with it, they just let it go. And that's what's happening. You'd be better served, where the Olympics have gone, to designate five or four hubs for it, and they rotated every 20 years, because then you'd have the infrastructure and it would be in place, and so you'd have somewhere in North America, yeah.
Speaker 3And it's built every five to every every, whatever the right amount is, and you do it with the winter, winter, summer and the winter. This way you have every four years, or every 12 years, because 20 might be too long. You know, you're getting an olympic property and now you have somewhere in north america, somewhere in asia, somewhere in the middle east, somewhere in africa, somewhere in oceania maybe, and those are the countries that can afford it, like Japan or Korea can afford it, kazakhstan, uzbekistan can afford it, united States, north America, mexico maybe can afford it, and then you don't have to worry anymore about infrastructure and people bidding and it's a business now. It's a multinational, organizational business with infrastructure that you maintain and, by the way, on the off years you hold world championships in those venues.
Speaker 3So you go, you have five regional ones. You know, every five years you're going to rotate the Olympics, the world championships, the Pan Am Games, the Asian Games. Now you've got a sustainable model. Instead, we go all right, how much can we charge Paris? What do we hope to make from Paris? If we're the IOC, paris does the math and it says what do we think we can make? You have countries struggling under the staggering debt, like Brazil when they hosted the Olympics. Now, I guarantee you it's about the right time. Next time you go back to Brazil, coach, go look at the Olympic venues. See if they're still standing, see if they're still being used. They are.
Speaker 2That's good. No, they learned. They did an Olympic legacy program. Because of what you're talking about how these things get all messed up. Every NGB has to utilize the Olympic facility, but even in a country like ours, go to.
Speaker 3Atlanta.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah 2000,.
Speaker 3Go to Atlanta. You want to know what happened to all those Don don.
Speaker 2But, tj, I think we could do this like do this, even if it's for a cycle, or even two cycles. Let's say you said the world championships are going to be here. The Asian just literally lay it out, right, literally lay it out. Let each country do that. And yeah, you're going to be like why do we always have to go to Mexico? Why do we always have to go to Korea? Whatever it is, at least people could budget for it, they could plan for it and they can build for it. And then maybe, if it's that structured and we know it's going to be a good quality, it'll be able to replicate to the next place. I think it's.
Speaker 3That's what we did here in the United States. We looked at it economically and we said where is the best place that we can situate and locate our Olympic training center for taekwondo? And all the votes came in and we chose North Carolina. Give me a break. So you know the United States, usa, taekwondo is.
Speaker 3Well, Colorado, first right you got to understand what Colorado was and the historical perspective. When they put Colorado there, it was perfect. It was an old army base. It was located, the only and, by the way, you know what wasn't there? No, not where they were.
Speaker 1They were at some other place. I guess I'm confused on why they didn't try to get back into it. Oh, you're talking about the new one?
Speaker 3Oh, yeah, no but the original reason, no, you're talking about Taekwondo.
Speaker 2You're talking about Taekwondo? Yeah, I'm just talking about.
Speaker 1Taekwondo, you're talking about Ta the Olympic.
Speaker 3Training Center doesn't work anymore in Colorado Springs.
Speaker 3So the truth is that the Olympic Training Center and I use the word plural, I was on the committee for a long time that decided what training centers should be built and what should be partnered and what should be removed.
Speaker 3And there was a lot of conversation about making those regional, depending upon the sport, and that's why you saw Chula Vista for rowing and all that sort of stuff, soccer too. And then the idea was why do you have the business offices which was sensible of the olympic committee in colorado nowhere, so they move into new york, which makes sense, right, get a place where you're close to where people want to come and be and get to easily, right. And so if you were looking at a modern uh structure for the olympic committee, I would. I would gather what you would guess would be this you do no longer need an olympic training center other than to convene athletes to go somewhere, because your best training, as we discussed last week, is with your current coach, in your current training environment, and you should fund that to the best of your ability with controls.
Speaker 1So so you're saying national team systems don't work anymore? Then like a national, like a centralized training, pick one that does, pick one that does so take basketball, for example, which is a bad example and a good example.
Speaker 3Take baseball, for example. All of our athletes that are any good or in a window of opportunity are usually student athletes that are either high school to college, and if they're post that they're professional none of them. If they're a pro player, they're not coming. If they're a college athlete, they can't come, and if they're a high school athlete, they could but won't. So in what, in what framework, does a national training center for anything?
Speaker 2I know just saying what you're saying because the United States is a big country and we have you're right In almost every discipline. There's good coaches and stuff like that. But I do believe, whether it's boxing or wrestling, if you put the right program with the right coach and again give people the opportunities that Bella Caroli.
Speaker 3Bella Caroli is a perfect. Juan Moreno is another great example. When people move to Miami to train with Juan Moreno in an Olympic or national training center where they know the answer is yes. And why, though? Because it's Miami. Well, no, and in Miami you can get good snow and you and Miami. That combination works. Juan Moreno, let me put you somewhere. Juan Moreno, in the newly acquired Greenland next week, do they come?
Speaker 2I mean Greenland's pretty far. I think they. No, I'm going to say no, alaska, alaska.
Speaker 3How about Alaska I?
Speaker 2mean listen, if it was a good facility they would come, and I mean they went with Corolli in the middle of nowhere. So my point is.
Speaker 3I love, love my son, and my son is a good soccer player, as we talk about every week. If the training center were in the middle of nowhere and the education program was online which is one of the reasons we didn't do it I wouldn't send my son because he's got a life post post career.
Speaker 2But but listen, that's for you there's there's probably way more people that would say you know what? I would do the sport. And if I could do classes online and when I'm done with the sport, probably by the time I'm 23, 24 I could, I'll have my education, I can go get further education. I did both.
Speaker 3I did both let me give you a couple names. You ready?
Speaker 2Jimmy Grazer what about him?
Speaker 3where is he now?
Speaker 2he's in California at martial arts school school.
Speaker 3Okay, where was he before?
Speaker 2Colorado.
Speaker 3Colorado. For how long?
Speaker 2I know he lived in. He was.
Speaker 3Florida, whitey Ford. Do you know who Whitey Ford is?
Speaker 2Yeah, a baseball player.
Speaker 3No, Whitey Ford was a judo Olympian who lived at the Olympic Training Center, never had a medal performance, but he lived there for 20 years or something.
Speaker 2Judo was horrible back then, and the list goes on. No, those are horrible examples.
Speaker 3I like them Horrible examples, I mean. Jimmy Grayson. I don't have to be right, I just have to be loud, I understand.
Speaker 1I think there's a benefit of having a national. I think you always have to have the highest level, like the one that's supposed to be the national training center, or like the Olympic trainers. It works in other countries we're not. It's not like this doesn't happen in other countries.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1They do whatever, but they have training places. I'm not disagreeing with you because you're right.
Speaker 2There's other places, other educational things, blah, blah blah. But most people different than your son like that's all they think. They're like how do I go pro? College is not an option, education is not. I'm going pro In Taekwondo. I wish people would do your route, education, because there's really nothing for you after the Olympic Games. And after the Olympic Games it's hey, congratulations, get out of the way, we'll bring somebody else. And so if they could do both Well.
Speaker 3College sport in general. Lacrosse Cross gets you into an Ivy League, so you want a high chance to get into.
Speaker 2They've got a pro league. Now those guys have got a pro league.
Speaker 3They don't make that much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you get like lacrosse or rowing.
Speaker 2Yeah, a good example.
Speaker 3Team handball. Those things will get you into colleges, right Volleyball will get you into colleges, but there's money to be made in the pros. But you know, one of the things I liked about um Northwestern right, the program that I saw there. They had a legacy program where the legacy of the alumni they start with freshmen and they, while they're doing their athletic career, besides the academics, which are great there, they're working a legacy networking thing. So by the time they graduate they might have a thousand or 2000 contacts and trips and so they're. They're one of those things and the Olympics had it for a while. I don't know if they still have it and TJ may have gone to it. It was the um.
Speaker 3I'm not talking about old job, but the the Olympics had the thing where they were training guys for post-career and I can't remember what it was called Olympic Association yeah, and but there was one where it was really like okay, we're gonna have workshops, we're gonna tell you how to do a resume, we're gonna teach you how to do whatever, and I thought those were great ideas because the reality is, as much as we'd like to believe, we're eternal and forever and our athletic careers will continue forever and we'll stretch them. They just don't. You got to have a business component to what you're doing.
College Sports and NIL Money
Speaker 2Well, Well, that's. I mean. Listen, you know it's funny to talk about sports, like you know collegiate sports, because you know I've I follow collegiate sports for my basically my whole life and I see these huge programs like Alabama, Duke, North Carolina way bigger programs than little soccer stuff, because soccer is this big in the world. Imagine american football. It's just, I mean it's it's like talking taekwondo or baseball. You know it's a big difference. But it's funny because the world is changing, even with the. You know we talked about a little bit young the, the nil.
Speaker 2Now these kids are literally making a million dollars and they're leaving their school because they're like, now you know what university of miami will give me $4 million to play quarterback? I mean, you guys are leaving $2 million contract College kid driving up in Bentley's and Rolls Royce, and you know, think about this and they're just leaving. I mean they open up the portal and these kids are gone after spring practice. They're like you know what, I'm not playing here or I'm going to have to wait behind. You know, TJ, I can go over here down the street and they'll give me more money and I'll play right away.
Speaker 2It's crazy. Talk about contacts, Talk about I mean, and it's all the way, going all the way down in Florida. Right now we have a big problem and I heard it's going nationwide with American football at high school level. They're paying these kids at high school level and there's no boundaries. Remember when we were growing up, you had to, you had to play in this area because that's where you lived. No, these kids, they can go anywhere and now they can switch like in the middle. They don't have to wait a season.
Speaker 3It's nuts, it's not that was, you know, the. The problem was that before all this, you got to remember that the college athletes had no rights. They were indentured servants, they were slaves. So all the money that was made in big sports and the rationale was the olympic and one of my dear friends was on the podcast a while ago dr schiller. Harvey schiller said you know, the way this works is, um, because one year I was training and I got, like I don't know, seventeen thousand dollars, right, and back then that was like a lot of money. The next year I got 11. So when I went in to talk to him they said yeah, no, you did better. You won the world cup, but we have a pile of money and more people applied for it. We got to spread it out through everybody, which was true, right. So he says you got to understand that the high profile sports, where we get all the sponsorship dollars, funds the most grassroots, horrible sport that gets no money. So table tennis or whatever the sport is, you know, the curling thing, or whatever it's called, pentathlon nobody's sponsoring those guys. So the money that we make in big sport pays for the money in little sport and the kid who's not going to be a pro and his only thing is going to be the warmups and the t-shirts. So that's what the original model was for college. However, then they realized they're paying college coaches five million dollars, they're filling stadiums, they're building stadiums. Right now northwestern's building a billion dollar stadium it's like 890 million dollars or something, and it was sponsored by a huge donor. But that's because they think and they know they'll fill them and that money will go into programs which they also split up among the athletes who don't get money. So the NIL money, I understand now and now.
Speaker 3I made a connection the other day which I didn't make. So you see all these kids on TikTok doing videos. Well, they're trying to build their NIL dollars. Yeah, you know, and I'm just like. So now it's not enough just to be a good athlete. You got to be a smart athlete, you got to market, you need a marketing thing. Now, remember to train, because I can point to a guy that apparently didn't understand. There's no nil money in taekwondo, who was shirt off, you know draking and kj or whatever. You know, he was kendall lamar and he forgot to win a tournament, right? So even if there were nil dollars, he's got. He's got sil dollars. You know shit out of locked daughter dollars I forgot to tell you.
Speaker 2I mean on that. You know I, camila, quit taekwondo last night. Who did? My daughter camila said you're talking about like, because we just had a? Uh, one of our students, um, like sister, signed like an eighty thousand dollar. Uh, deal with pickleball. So I pulled her out of taekwondo. I said, man, man, we signed them called Pickleball homie People love Pickleball. I talked to a guy yesterday.
Speaker 3He's all mad because they're not. By the way, nobody apparently wants a.
Speaker 2Pickleball course by their house, come on.
Speaker 1If I was still competing I'd think about it. I ain't still at it now.
Speaker 2You don't have any.
Speaker 3Joker pictures you could buy If you're 11 years old. You could buy 80,000 Joker pictures with $80,000.
Speaker 1I'm going to send you one of these pictures. You seem to be in love with this picture.
Speaker 3I'm going to sign it for you too.
Speaker 2That's why I want you to send that money you got a whole lot of GoFundMes man.
Speaker 1A whole lot of them.
Speaker 3Nobody's. I'm the only one funding it. Is that true? We should actually start. We should start. We should do two things we should start a GoFundMe and the other thing we should start is a revolution. So we keep talking about evolution. It's not happening. So the only way this is going to happen is if the three of us you know, it's like that band back in the eighties two Mexicans, a Puerto Rican and a Dominican. You don't know about this band. No, are you kidding me? Oh, I got to do another search here.
Speaker 2Oh my, God.
Speaker 3I can't do a revolution. We need to do a.
Speaker 2Mexican. Hey, tj, you know something quiet Like after we've been doing this podcast. Things have been quiet like on the social media front, yeah.
Speaker 3Let me see if I can find it.
Speaker 1I just get a lot of, I get a lot, I get a lot of the person to person conversations and and you know all you guys, like you were saying that, you guys are saying you know saying the right thing, doing the right thing. It makes sense this. It makes sense that, like you know, like I think one of you guys said on one of them, you know, let us know, write it right in the chat, write in the responses to the videos, repost the videos, talk about the videos. The same thing.
Speaker 2We talk about everything else, but I think it's just for sure. It seemed like they were always popping off about something that we said here or there individually. Uh-oh, what the heck is that?
Speaker 3Dude, we got half of this right now. All we got to do is change one of the Puerto Ricans to a Mexican, so it's two Puerto Ricans, a black man and a Dominican.
Speaker 2What is this?
Speaker 3This was a house music band. You guys don't know this.
Speaker 2No.
Speaker 3I am going to find this. There's a video, I'm sure somewhere. But you never heard this. They have music, if I heard a song I would know. Let me see what the songs are. Oh my God, Apparently well. They worked with C&C Music Factory, who I know, the guy.
Speaker 2Yeah, I know, c&c Music Factory.
Podcast Wrap-Up and Next Guest
Speaker 3He did an event with the guy a nicest guy in the world, by the way, really just uh, he's really not. We had dinner at frank silverman's house, um, but let me see dave morales. They scored a hit in the dance club with do it properly. So now now we gotta find we gotta never heard. Well, you're obviously not a Dominican.
Speaker 1Here you go, right here right here it's right here, can you hear it?
Speaker 3You got it.
Speaker 1No, we can't hear you.
Speaker 3Here it goes. You can't hear it?
Speaker 2No, I'm going to put it on now.
Speaker 3Here it comes, and actually this was produced, I think, by the guy who did C&C. Uh-oh, uh-oh, hold on.
Speaker 2I know you guys can't see me dancing.
Speaker 3That's some jungle house.
Speaker 1It was probably hot and sweaty and musky and heckler. It was like a steam bath. Oh, you know this song? Not sure I do. This sounds like some Ron Burgundy stuff dude.
Speaker 3That is there. You go, man, right there. What have we been doing? We're wasting our time.
Speaker 2We could have had a rap group a Puerto Rican, half Puerto Rican, polish, mexican and an almost black guy. This would be a hell of a band rap group A Puerto Rican, half Puerto Rican, polish.
Speaker 3Mexican and an almost black guy. This would be a hell of a band Wait what do you say?
Speaker 1Almost Puerto Rican, Mexican, Polish guy.
Speaker 2Who's the almost black guy?
Speaker 1Me. I guess that's got to be. I don't know. I think it's me. I could be the.
Speaker 2Polish half Puerto Rican, Mexican You've got to be the.
Speaker 3Dominican. We're gonna redo the song, I'll remix it and then we can do the vocals for it. We'll do it almost properly, actually. No, no, dude, what an idea. I'm doing this for next week. I'm rewriting our anthem. It's gonna be sorry, not sorry.
Speaker 2That's good.
Speaker 3I'm gonna create the lyrics.
Speaker 2Who's our next guest? Who would be good for next guest?
Speaker 1We've only had two. You sat down the gauntlet, you sat down the gauntlet already, steve Kaepler.
Speaker 3All right, so I'm sending him a copy of the podcast and then I'm going to make a time that he can make it. You guys might have to get out of your jammies. Tj, you're going to have to get out of your Hello Kitties Next week's going to be fun because I'm going to be in Uzbekistan.
Speaker 2We'll court it.
Speaker 3I'll get him to give me some time because he's retired now.
Speaker 2He got up yesterday morning and was doing some push-ups.
Speaker 3Then he goes out and he plays golf, then he does a little bit of teaching just because he likes to teach um, and I'll see what time works for him. But, um, I might be very quiet on that because he's a formidable mind and I don't want to be formulated so we're not formidable minds I did not say that, no, no I did not say that you, you, you're projecting, you're internalizing and projecting, no, no no, you know.
Speaker 1No, no, that was a crazy answer. No, no, no.
Speaker 3I didn't say you are not. I simply said he is.
Speaker 2Just because somebody is something doesn't mean that you are not, but you know what's funny is because I mean, again, he's going to talk about, we'll talk about it, but he's going to bring'll talk, but. I know he can only present one side. He's going to present the old school side and what Taekwondo has changed into and why. I have no idea what he's going to say.
Speaker 1I know, but I you are offending his sensei sir. You better slow down.
Speaker 2But what I'm arguing with them. But like it's going to be fun to kind of put on like okay, I never did old school and talk about some of the new school, like, again, I'm not. I can go both ways. I can debate both sides of the argument. You know I can make a big argument for old school, new school, you know somewhere where it could be in the future. You know I'm not going to like Herb when you guys I I know they, they never fix the problem. I agree. I don't think anybody disagrees. You know they put the electronics. The electronics don't work. I agree. But oh, the electronics change what tequando looks like. I agree. But stop, don't act like tequando looked perfect back then. Don't act like that, because I'll put up some videos of some sorry ass tequando people. I can put up some awesome ones too. Sorry ass Taekwondo people. I could put up some awesome ones too. And it can go both ways. So that's my point of all.
Speaker 3Yeah, I think I don't disagree. It'll be fun, but I'm going to give you a preview.
Speaker 2Hello, nice to meet you. I'm here to see you. Oh my god, that's Stephen K, isn't that? What are we watching here? Oh my God, that's Stephen Cain, isn't that? All right?
Speaker 1What are we watching here? Ready to lose the hat and regrow hair.
Speaker 2This is one of his many interviews. You can regrow your hair and your hair. Can I grow his hair back? This is years ago. Oh, you didn't say that out loud.
Speaker 3We changed the scoring system.
Speaker 1Oh, is this just Karen Eden person? All techniques were given only one point, okay.
Speaker 3And we changed it so that a turning kick is awarded two points and a face kick is awarded three points, because we want to reward A the more technically difficult. This is actually a good interview.
Speaker 1This is where I think that's where the issue started.
Speaker 3Well, because we changed the scoring system.
Speaker 1Everything was one point, should have been one point. You kicked people in the face because their hands were down. You spot on people because they went too slow. It's the open side. Now you prioritize scoring over technique.
Speaker 2That's where it comes from. It's his fault. It's his fault that it changed.
Speaker 1Actually it's his fault that it changed. Actually it's my. When you hit someone, it was because that's when they were open. Now I'm leaving my leg in the air and trying to touch him with my toes.
Speaker 3I will take responsibility.
Speaker 2You get more points for punching people in the face, in boxing or in the body.
Speaker 1Nah, same thing, they go down, they go down.
Speaker 2There you go. I'm on TJ's side. Team TJ, team TJ.
Speaker 3All right, today we're going to have to wrap it up here, because I got to go be a responsible parent and volunteer at my son's school, which we pay a ridiculous amount of money for, so I'm doing a CPR course, whatever.
Speaker 2I want to talk about the round-by-round scoring, because somebody said I was listening to a really cool thing on Joe Rogan Try to segue. He was talking about like at the end of a round, if I have you, when the round starts, we shouldn't start standing up, we should start where we were, because you didn't get out of that position in a real fight. He said the fight should continue going. So I'd like to talk about that kind of thing next time, all right.
Speaker 3Well, gentlemen, thank you for this week. Sorry we're a little shorter than usual, but as usual, tj brought a lot of um, meaningful content and intellectual. And then remember, if you remember nothing else from this, juan has thrown the gauntlet down. Juan gauntlet down and you'll be hearing our new single sorry, not sire, by sorry, but not sorry. By puerto rican, the dominican, fake dominican and a mexican peace later.