Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Uzbekistan Training Camp: What American Taekwondo Could Learn
Olympic medalists Juan Moreno, TJ , and Herb Perez pull no punches in this raw, unfiltered examination of what's happening behind the scenes in American taekwondo.
Coach Moreno shares fascinating insights from his training camp in Uzbekistan, where he's witnessed a thriving system with nine full-time coaches for their senior team, impressive test matches, and remarkable depth of talent. The contrast between this environment and the current USA program becomes the springboard for a deeper conversation about leadership, accountability, and inclusion in American taekwondo.
The coaches reveal their frustrations with USA Taekwondo leadership's systematic exclusion of Olympic medalists and experienced coaches from the national program. Despite reaching out directly to program directors, these accomplished coaches receive no response whatsoever – a stunning lack of professional courtesy that reveals deeper organizational issues. As Coach Perez pointedly remarks, "The program has been historically run by non-performers."
What emerges is a troubling picture of an organization that, despite significant financial resources, struggles with athlete development and maintaining competitive depth across weight divisions. The coaches question why leadership remains unchanged despite years of underwhelming results, noting that in any other professional sport, such performance would trigger immediate changes. Their proposed solution centers around creating true "buy-in" from the broader taekwondo community – building an inclusive environment where experience is valued and everyone feels respected.
Whether you're a taekwondo practitioner, coach, or simply interested in sports organization development, this episode offers rare insider perspective on what it takes to build truly successful athletic programs. Listen now to hear these Olympic medalists speak truth to power about the sport they love.
I'm Terrence, run to the scene. No thrill, I'm sorry, not sorry, ain't it funny? I repeat on the track my sister ill Advise opinions maybe, but facts ain't lies, it's cold metal mentality. Watch the sunrise 1F1, I'm checkin' in. So we're sittin' pretty. Still mean. Second best in the world. Get witty. Face down to Ponyx, pressure cookin' hot. Gave my sweat, my focus, everything I got TJ Grimes, tj holding down the bronze Stood on the stage. I fought. The giants turned the new page, learned to discipline, focused respect for the fight, my fight, my life was something I knew. Vitality deep in the sun, one of two. I'm, in reality, just me. I still need to be up in the box.
Speaker 2:There's something in this, somethinged from the building. There was black smoke once. Then there's white smoke. I am proud to announce that Juan Compapa, papa Diana Moreno is not the Pope, but, more importantly, I think it's finally time for TJ. Tj not the Pope either, and definitely not me, but we have a new Pope and he is.
Speaker 3:Robert Francis Prevost from the USA. We'll see. If I'm not mistaken, it's the firstost from the USA, we'll see. If I'm not mistaken, it's the first pope from America ever. Just because of that, I'm going to say Robert.
Speaker 2:There's a chance that he's going to take the name of John, which is my middle name, and of course, everybody knows that Juan, besides being Spanish for Goma Mielda, is John in Spanish. So TJ is back in his bat lair with his joker background, and so when you're watching the video, if you're watching this on on youtube, just look to the right. He is the dark spot in the midst of the white spot behind him so you can see him. But again, welcome everybody. This is the warehouse. We'll start with our usual disclaimer sorry, not sorry, not sorry and if you listen to our new song.
Speaker 2:We got a new song up on youtube. It's getting an amazing amount of hits. I was shocked to see how many. Hopefully those sponsorship checks will start running in. This is him, no dude, that's the real that's the real pope.
Speaker 3:That's the pope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the pope I'm not talking about the pope not the pope of greenwich village. That's the real pope trivia fact who was the pope of greenwich village village? No say eric roberts, eric, roberts, eric. No say Eric Roberts, eric Roberts, eric Roberts. He took my finger. All right, I could find that for you later. All right, gentlemen, tj, what's going?
Speaker 5:on, please. What's going on sir? Chilling, chilling, just always excited for Thursdays. It's my therapy on Thursdays, thursday therapy. Get to sit here and talk with you guys talk about Taekwondo. So as always, I'm excited. What's going on with you?
Speaker 2:Not much Just waiting. Coach, what's going on with?
Speaker 3:you Listen, I'm in Uzbekistan and I just I would. First of all, this is a very Muslim country. They practice Islam and I went to a Catholic church here. It was amazing. This picture was up there and it's just kind of for me. It's kind of I'm a Catholic, so it's pretty neat that I'm here and all of a sudden they just elected the new Pope. My wife just told me literally a couple seconds ago. So it's pretty awesome. But yeah, I'm happy.
Speaker 2:Oh, your wife told you, I thought you knew that. I thought you knew that, I thought you knew that we were texting back and forth.
Speaker 3:She told me it was coming with white smoke. I didn't even know. And then I said, as soon as you find out, let me know. So she just texted me. But listen in honor of Okay, okay, okay, okay, All right.
Speaker 2:I just wanted, now that I figured out how to work it, you know we messed up that is. That is the pope of greenwich village and that's eric roberts with mickey roberts I'm not done.
Speaker 3:I got a couple things. I gotta give a shout out to my man, don lewis, for my adult beverage. I gotta give a shout out to my man, dr steve caberron, from my Korean ramen in Wachimokot in Uzbekistan. And this is just some Pringles.
Speaker 5:So yeah, did they send you a care package or something?
Speaker 3:No man, I'm just like here just winging it. Let's go. Just winging it huh, I'm ready to go. Today, I feel a little like something you guys did, we talk since you guys had test matches there. How's that? How was that? Whoa, wait a minute. My wife is awesome. She just texted me homeboys from shytown. Let me give that. Folks up there right there, chicago, illinois pope, what do you know about that? You guys don't know nothing about that that.
Speaker 4:That is crazy.
Speaker 3:Chicago Pope.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to hear the end of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah man, my wife just texted me right now, I had no idea he's from Illinois, Chicago, Illinois. Hold up here, he is right here. Look my man. My man's a G boy. Look at this guy Represent.
Speaker 2:I've actually found some footage of the new Pope. I don't know how I do this. I'm so good.
Speaker 3:Leon.
Speaker 5:He's 69 years old. I'll respond a little bit to Jane. I said it was some problem with the paperwork and.
Speaker 3:Stop, bro, don't be messing around with me, man. Right now the pope is elected.
Speaker 2:Man, you're a sacrilegious anyway, just letting you know, just letting you know, alright, so whatever that's awesome.
Speaker 3:That's amazing, I'm happy, yeah, so how?
Speaker 5:how are the test matches?
Speaker 3:listen, test matches were great. We, um, we had them, uh, two days ago. These guys are like first class man. They, they brought in three, three, we had three rings. They brought in referees. Um, we had a holding area, they had match numbers. It was everything. I was like, holy crap, they're like yo match number one's up. We're like, oh my gosh, they did a good job of giving us a couple different variety of people. The referees were on point. They let us fight.
Speaker 3:We did really well. I mean, we dropped a couple, but we won a lot more than we lost. And I was a little surprised because, watching the level, it goes to show you that just because you train well doesn't mean that you compete well, and I think we can all attest to that. These guys really train well. But some of we have a good group of, you know, kids here and I say kids because they're kids to me. Um, we have some olympians, we have some olympic medalists and we have some new kids and we were really good, we were really strong and we had some good battles. You know, like I said, we we wanted some close ones. We we lost some close ones, but the energy was great. They had a, you know, I told you guys they have um, they told me they have nine coaches on staff for the senior team, and then there was probably another three or four other coaches that I hadn't seen.
Speaker 5:Are those all like, uh, are those all paid positions? Or you know, all those like full, like all nine paid?
Speaker 3:coaches, nine paid coaches, nine paid coaches for the senior team, for the senior team, and while we were here, they had a junior program and they invited me to go watch. It was two and hours away I program and they invited me to go watch. It was two and hours away. I was like, um, they had a russian team, they had a bulgarian team, they had a uh, I can't remember. They had four teams here and they were. They had a training camp with the juniors and I was like holy cow, I mean super nice man. They invited us to, uh, moscow for a training camp, in training camp in August to bring our junior team. Super nice, that's cool. Yeah, super, super nice, super accommodating.
Speaker 3:But to answer your point directly, tj, the tennis match was great. It was rowdy, it was really conflicting. Not conflict, everyone's there. The coaches are walking around the ring. It wasn't like you were sitting in quiet. People are like yelling and just really getting in there. You know, I'm going to say for myself, for the first couple rounds I was just kind of sitting back and talking, but by the end I'm walking around the ring and I'm doing interviews with national TV and then I'm like, you know, yelling and stuff like that.
Speaker 5:It was really fun. We had a great time. It was awesome. That's cool. That's cool and that was um.
Speaker 3:you said that was um how many matches you did, like three or four matches each person, or yeah, we're getting three matches. It depended on the divisions and stuff like that. We're getting three.
Speaker 5:What is that? That's cool. You should have told him. You should have never told them it wasn't working.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to share footage we had found of the actual event. Y'all can't jump.
Speaker 3:So, but anyway.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's cool, though that's dope.
Speaker 3:I mean we had a lot of people, man, I mean between our athletes, and I didn't say this. China showed up on Monday with 25 deep. I was like holy cow and all they want to do is fight. It's funny because we're doing drills and they do well, but I've heard the coach tomorrow's fine, tomorrow's fine, tomorrow's fine. All they want to do is fight. So we matched up well with them and they have their one, two Olympians here, you, one olympic silver medalist and stuff like that. So they brought some. It's a club, team, clubs. Did you go fight in that, that, that world cup in ouija, or that that place is all muslim in china?
Speaker 5:you did I thought yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah that's where they're from. That's where they're from oh shoot Okay, the team that came in.
Speaker 5:Yep, yep, Okay okay, okay, that was a crazy tournament. I like that format. That was the one where the World Cup, you had to fight the full match to take the point. So it was Olympic divisions, I think right, olympic weight divisions, or was it five. I feel like there was like a fifth division or something weird, right? Anyways, you had to fight the whole match to win the spot. That was the same year. I think Spain won the World Cup that year while we were there and they ended up winning the World Cup when we were in China.
Speaker 5:They got to the finals and won that one.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? You had to fight the full match. What does that mean?
Speaker 5:So 58, you had to fight three rounds. Whoever won that match in that division, you got one point for that group and then 68 went and you got one point for that group. It was the best finish out of the. I think it was five divisions, I think it was, yeah, some 54 maybe and then some other divisions, but whatever it was best.
Speaker 5:Three out of five matches took the win for the whole overall match and you fought through the whole thing and some days, like I think the first day, we fought at like nine in the morning and then the next day we didn't fight till like that's crazy 6 pm, 5 pm again. You don't realize how fast those bruises set in when you got to wake up and do it again. It's weird because you do it every day at training but at the competition. I remember getting back to the hotel after that, uh, first day and I was fine, but in the morning I woke up and it was like little bruises like my heel, my wrist, my elbow, and then we had to wait until 6 pm again to fight and I think the last day was back in the afternoon at some time.
Speaker 5:It was definitely an interesting event. I like that format. I like that format better for World Cups than the tag team stuff.
Speaker 3:to be honest, it's funny you say that because the bruises said it was a little cut. I mean a little kind of old school, right, a little old school kind of fighting. Pretty cool Look at this guys, I'm going to show you something, hold on.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying that, I'm just chatting. I'm not saying it out loud, but that is pretty funny.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, I know, it was what the hell? Oh, that was your name. I like acupuncture. I miss acupuncture.
Speaker 4:First time ever.
Speaker 5:It's so amazing.
Speaker 4:I never did it, it was you.
Speaker 5:That's crazy. I never did it. You've done fire cuffs though.
Speaker 3:Never did it.
Speaker 5:Like the what I did, the old school fire cuffs where they throw the match inside and everything and it goes so listen, did my first.
Speaker 3:I've had massages my whole. I've had massages all the time and people have told me sportsman. So because we're doing two trainings a day, the olympic committee sent a masseuse here along with our pt guy and this old man named julio. He's unbelievable, this dude, because my he did uh, no, stop, stop, it's magic. Hey, I never had a. This guy killed me, but like I could move, all of a sudden, inflammation was gone. Today he did me so, like so many places, like I have bruises I bet you do stop.
Speaker 5:Yeah, they hurt, though, like in the process, they're like painful I hate when they get when they start doing it with, like their elbows and stuff, that's when it gets crazy. Like the, the point their elbow, like right on the muscle we're trying to release it is, is nuts. I'm a wimp, that's's crap Hurt.
Speaker 2:I don't get massages and I don't do jujitsu. I don't do that stuff.
Speaker 3:First of all, we got to come back here. The place is everyone's so friendly, it's so clean, it's so safe, it's so cheap and the training. It reminds me of Korea, backa back in the day. It really does I mean they're so clean they're, but they train hard, they don't, they don't complain it. It's really really uh impressive. Um, I'm I didn't know what to expect. I didn't hope it would be good, but it's it far exceeded my expectations. It's really really that good.
Speaker 2:So you know good, the one thing that's amazing about taekwondo is um, when you go somewhere where you have a true taekwondo culture and then it mixes with the indigenous culture, whatever that might be um, and they share values and the way they do things.
Speaker 3:I'll bring my guys over here. I'll bring all my Brazil people.
Speaker 4:Hey, Beshka, Beshka hey coach what's up? How you guys doing Nice good to see you. There's my guy right there.
Speaker 3:Come here. Come here. This is my technical director. This is our coach, the Chino Olympic bronze medalist. This is Enrique. He's Olympian. This is Enrique, he's an Olympian. This is Guilherme. He's going to the Junior Pan Am Elena Champions.
Speaker 4:Campeones.
Speaker 3:This is Pan Am Games gold medalist, an Olympian. This is Maria Clara Olympian. So yeah, these are my peoples. Nice to see you all.
Speaker 2:I know they can't hear us, but tell them. We said Buen Provecho.
Speaker 5:Yeah they're so cool, man, they're so nice. But anyway, what are we talking about today? No, I was um, but I was uh thinking about just talking about the stuff you were talking with the training camps and training styles and stuff like that, and just kind of go off of that. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3:well, um, speaking of training camps, I'm here and one of my athletes actually just went to michael, not michael rodriguez, he's a national team athlete. He went out to the academy to do some test matches. I guess they um offered him to come for a week, paid him full blah, blah, blah and um uh, he's gonna give me some updates and training and you know these kind of things. And ah, I'm going to start by saying this I reached out to two people. Now I'm gonna call them by names because I'm tired of not.
Speaker 3:I reached out ahead of time to sherman nelson, the director of affairs yeah, I, you know, I I reached out on a personal level as the home coach and zero response. Okay.
Speaker 2:I reached out to. He has a better record than you, right? So he doesn't have to respond to you. You're his junior. Go ahead, I'm sorry, I apologize. Not even he's forgotten his taekwondo manners a long time ago.
Speaker 3:I just again, you can't be that busy. And so, anyway, kind of going back. Um, I reached out to the head coach directly. Um had a conversation with him at the olympic games. Um, he approached me. It was very cordial. I think I talked about this at one point. Um, then he said juan, if you ever have anything, just contact me directly. So I did. I asked them specifically a few questions, made a couple requests and nothing.
Speaker 3:Gareth Brown, you can't say okay, no, screw you, go to hell, I don't care, you can't do anything In this day and age. I refuse to believe that you do not have your phone with you and you had to have seen my text message. It's the most direct line of communication with everybody. So it's a little bit of a gripe. Because I went to the two head people. I'm not saying I'm somebody, but I'm definitely not nobody. You know who I am. And my guy went there. Contrary to what you guys thought, I allowed my guy to go there. I encouraged my guy to go there, be there, have fun, do whatever, and you guys can't even respond to me. Tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm out of line here, am I? I don't know. I don't know, maybe I'm-.
Speaker 5:Nah, because they make time to respond to people they want to respond to. It doesn't make any sense. If you're reaching out Again, we can talk, pedigree, we can talk. Why you'd want to have a conversation? We could talk. Why you'd want to have a conversation with a coach that has their athlete up there training like why, why would that not be open line of communication? Isn't that what this whole thing is about? Right? Isn't that what they've been? You know what they preach?
Speaker 3:isn't that what we talk about. That's right. They're preaching transparency and in working relationships. And again I I don't know if they called any other guys. I mean, what do they got out there? They got three guys. They got Johnny Healy, they got CJ and they got Kafani and I think Will Cunningham is going out there. So you have three for sure, maybe four, and you got one other guy. There's only one other guy, so you got five people max. You got an African there that lives in the area, that comes in trains too, for what I have no idea, but you got three to four american athletes and another one's coming. You can't respond, you can't. You can't humor me at all. I'm that much of an asshole that you can't talk to me like what the heck, what the heck man I'm sorry, it's just didn't tell you.
Speaker 5:But didn't he tell you, but didn't he tell you to reach out to him and talk to him if you had any issues?
Speaker 3:then it wasn't like Olympic Games I had said something to somebody and he literally came to me and, like I told you guys, I have not had many conversations with him, but it was purely professional and very nice. I I give him a lot of credit and respect for that and he told me you got something, come to me. And I talked to him before, after the team trials, and he had texted me a little, so I thought if I said something he would respond back Again. Yes, no, maybe so, but nothing. Nothing so interesting. Kind of weird man, kind of sad, a little bit disappointed, to be honest, with you well, the organization.
Speaker 2:You know the culture you design for the organization is designed by its leadership, right and and its leadership. They've got to decide what they want to do and what they want to support and what they think matters. So it's clear that you know, a long time ago, this organization has forgotten its respect matrix and it forgot what the sport was, that they did, why they did it and who did it. And so all you don't have to look that far to figure that out, because the reality is the people in the organization. You know you got to remember when it started. It started when they decided to exit all the crooked thieves and charlatans from the past incarnation of the organization. And so when they got rid of all those people, which was a broad band of people it was Americans, Koreans, everybody. You know the names don't really matter.
Speaker 2:But when they decided to get rid of all of them, they decided that, in addition to that, they should get rid of the traditions and everything else that we do as a sport. So they don't. I mean you should. The common courtesy of customer service should happen regardless, right? Whether you're whatever. If you're a high level coach who's putting people on Olympic podiums, then it should happen. Even right, whether you're whatever. If you're a high level coach who's putting people on olympic podiums, then it should happen, even more so. But the idea that they would ignore olympians and um, but you know they've rewritten history in their mind.
Speaker 5:You talked to you talked to them before the camp, though right like before michael going out there, you had conversations with them back and forth right after team trials we kind of went back and forth.
Speaker 3:You know, herb, you bring up a good point about again. I'm not even going to sit there and say you have to speak with everybody and stuff like that, but there's certain people that are still within the sport. They're doing some really good things, whether you like it or not, and to not even converse with them to not even work with them.
Speaker 3:And again, it sounds self-serving, but TJ is a perfect example. Like how is he the only guy, the only Olympic guy that doesn't even get any love? Like, how does he not get? It's been like that. It's been like that man, I think it's because you're black. It's been like that.
Speaker 5:I think it's because you're black. It might be. Who knows that it's been like that man. I think it's been like that. I think it's because you're black. It might be. Who knows? You never know it might be it. Don't make no sense. I mean I'm, but you give me another reason. Give me, give me any reason.
Speaker 5:Give me a reason they had, a reason they had a reason for four years, which was bullshit, and it's gone and they always got a reason no, no, before it was, I don't want it was I'm not putting it out there, but you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:They had a little reason that was going on for a couple years and that obviously was bs.
Speaker 5:And now before it was before that. It was because I knew too many athletes, and athletes that they trained with were a part of the team or too close with, and I couldn't be up there for training, uh, training meanwhile, those people that they're talking about don't even exist in their program anymore.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's silly. No, it's silly. It's always a reason. It's always a reason. It's always been a reason. It's always been a reason.
Speaker 3:I'm in a bad mood right now because I think when we first started this podcast, we took some bites at some people and it just keeps putting its ugly head in front of us and it's too hard not to take a swing at it. It's just ridiculous, it's just too much. And are we better right now? Where are we at More people? I said this last podcast and one of our former athletes actually brought this up to me there's more people outside of the program that seem to be doing well than inside the program. What does that say? What does that say? They got all the money. They got all the resources these videos is crazy.
Speaker 5:Okay, just had a how to share the love show, but but but seriously give I mean like you're not wrong, though it makes it makes no sense. It makes no sense. I've been have you. When you talk about um, I was just talking we were talking about earlier. I've been on the junior team, the senior team, the collegiate team, the world team, the pan am championship team, the world like uh, olympic medalists, a grand prix champion, uh, grand prix competitors, all every level of this game. That's happened from the time before electronics all the way through now.
Speaker 5:I've been a part of in this organization and not good enough, not good and not not good enough, not good enough, not good enough, not good enough at all. No matter what, there's always a reason. It makes no sense, it makes no sense.
Speaker 5:Yeah, other people keep getting it now, now it's because I guess, now it's because you know, now it's because we say what we want to say. Now it's because I say what I want to say. That's the reason why they're not going to work with us, because we don't like them, right? It's always been the case, right? That's always been the reason they don't want to work with us because of who I worked with, who I was next with, who I was a part of. What's the difference? It's the same situation over and over and over again. It doesn't matter where you stand, it doesn't matter what you do.
Speaker 3:It doesn't matter.
Speaker 5:You know what?
Speaker 3:History repeats itself because, young, I remember when you were the outcast. I remember when you didn't want to go to the OTC. I remember when your, your master, your grandmaster, wasn't in favor with all this stuff. You know, I know I'm going back now, but I'm just trying to. It's weird. We think we've gotten better, we haven't gotten better. The same shit happened when you were doing it, young, and you, you were that guy. Well, you're still that guy that throws, you know, bombs from from left field yeah, you have to, though.
Speaker 2:So I mean I like I got taken, yeah, but I'm not even.
Speaker 5:I don't even do that.
Speaker 5:Like I have a whole nother aspect to the whole thing, like you know what I mean, like I let work be work and let's play fair. I mean I've seen relationships with people that guarantee like maybe necessarily don't 100% get along, you know, but in a professional standpoint point they work together. I've approached that whole situation from that direction from the beginning. I've talked to you about some of those early conversations like work is work. At that point I'm at the. I'm in the us military coaching a united states team. The only way we win is if they win and we couldn't figure out how to work together because of where I stood before them, who helped me get to where I was, what team I'm a part of, what training camps I take my guys to it.
Speaker 5:It makes no sense. It makes no sense. None of it adds up. None of it adds up. It's the same thing, like you just said. It's the same thing like you just said. They get in their room and they control it as long as they can control it, and they just let it be what it is.
Speaker 2:So the question becomes you know, and this is where organizational management happens and matters, right. So, and you see it at all levels of different organizations. So you know, when I came to this city, for example, I decided I wanted to help the city and so I noticed that a local PTA we were doing a lot of work for schools going in and teaching and doing stuff. So this kid comes in and he can't, they're not going to have a pizza party because he didn't raise $1. You had to at least get sponsorship for $1. So I find this out, I call the PTA and I say how much money do you need? And so I'll buy all the t-shirts for all the kids, by the way, I'll pay for all the pizza parties for the kids, and it was, I don't know whatever. And then I wanted to raise money for their school for music instruments, because they couldn't afford a music program because the state wasn't paying for it. So the woman the goes oh, we just need two hundred dollars, three hundred dollars. So then I realized I'd never heard anybody refuse money like, and I said you know, that's the first I've ever heard of anyone refusing money. Right, like the US Olympic Committee, we take everybody's money for donations. And so I was like then I go, somebody says to me, oh, her son or daughter goes to the other martial arts school in town which is run by this weird little you know fakey made up Shaolinolin, chinese, japanese kempo karate thing which is big out here in uh california called uh ussd, and the guy's like some petty mobster or something. And so I was like, okay, um, so I go, I go to the principal, I go, you know, we're willing to pay this, we'll pay for legacy, we'll get instruments, instruments donated and we'll do all this thing. And so instead I realized the organization because of some woman who was now not in the town anymore, by the way, her jealousy, her pettiness, because we had come in and we were a big imprint. We had 850 students. The other school had struggled to have a hundred, the other school had struggled to have 100. So that's a PTA. We fixed our own problem. We went to another school in town and started donating money to them and raising money for them and over 10 years we raised $1.5 million.
Speaker 2:Now, this isn't to talk about me or what we did. This is to talk about the pettiness of people. Imagine a woman who's so petty and has children in the school system and she doesn't care anything about the other 900 kids in that school. She cares about her little Kung Fu wizard, who's seven years old and goes to a bad school in town. Well, why would USAT be any different?
Speaker 2:Usa Taekwondo doesn't care about you. They don't care about results. If they cared about results, they'd have the best and the brightest in the room, those who have done it before and, by the way, are still doing it today. And I'm not saying bring me in the room, bring anybody in and bring whatever, but in what stretch of the imagination? I don't want to mention his name, gareth Brown. But by what stretch of the imagination do you go out and dig into the deep hole of the amazing legacy of British taekwondo which there isn't anyway, by the way, with the exception of Aaron Cook, which they also extricated because they didn't like his politics and you find Gareth Brown. You could find Gareth Brown as a clown show on YouTube, because somebody sent me a video of him fighting and getting his ass beat by somebody from some nondescript country, paul Green. You know he had a minimal career. It did okay, but you got to go.
Speaker 2:Do you know how deep you have to go? How deep you have to run from the United States and its successes to end up in that area to find these two clowns? And then you're going to say you guys expect anything. The program has been historically run by non-performers and if you want any more truth to that, I'll say it now Look at the current leadership Running it as a non-performer, advising them as a non-performer, running the other part of it as somebody that didn't even make it to the leaderboard, forget about getting on the podium.
Speaker 2:So by what stretch of the imagination do they have to have enough egolessness to invite you into the room? How does that happen? It doesn't happen. And you know why? Because at the fundamental core of everyone, unless they do martial arts for the right reasons, is self-interest and ego. They bring you in the room. They matter less. What they forgot, just like the woman forgot in the PTA, is what matters most are and Coach Moreno and I know this because we taught the program, we designed it program, we designed it athletes first, coach, second, performance first, results, second, ego last. Out of all of it, the athlete and results. The athletes are what matter. That's why you're there now. If you don't understand that, that it's time for you to find a new job, but anyway, I mean, I, I didn't, I didn't want to mention any names, I think I mean did no, no, no, I mean listen, I mean TJ, you know, I mean what was built here.
Speaker 3:Be great in what year 28 28. Dominate in 28. Right. And they also said we want to be deep in every field, right In every division. And we have three and three, Maybe four and four if you're lucky.
Speaker 5:But they've done the opposite. When they close off our Olympic divisions after someone gets an Olympic medal, that's where it starts. Right there You've already shortcut any kind of Olympic development pipeline development in 67, because you told that person they can only get second.
Speaker 3:Hey, you want to take a bet. That makes no sense. You want to take a bet, and again, this is not. This is, it's just a bet. You want to take a bet. That makes no sense. You want to take a bet, and again, this is not, this is, it's just a bet. You want to bet on 67? You want to bet on 67, if they compete at the World Championships or not?
Speaker 5:Oh, I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 3:And again one of my former athletes. I mean I have a lot of respect for the family, so nice to me, so nice to my family, so nice to my program. The athlete is an Olympic bronze medalist man. I watched a little highlight of her today but I mean I don't know if she sees 67 again and I'm just being honest, I don't know. All right, just had to get that out there for a second.
Speaker 2:All right, just had to get that out there for a second Go ahead?
Speaker 3:I don't know, but again, well, I'm going off what you're saying. Are they closing off divisions and stuff like that? And you know, you had a person that basically got a runner up without anybody being in the division, cause everybody went in different areas, areas, and one person stayed there and became the spot, the B-team spot, did they?
Speaker 5:not have anybody else. It was only one person registered for 67?.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Oh shit, I didn't know that. I thought there was a couple of them.
Speaker 3:No, if I'm not mistaken, they all kind of moved around until there was one person. My point is again, I'm not mistaken, they all kind of moved around until there was one person. So I'm going to make the team. So I mean. My point is again I mean I'm not trying to bag on any person or anything, because I'm not about the athlete bagging. That's ridiculous. I mean they do their best win, lose or draw. They bring it to the table all the time. But what I'm saying is per category. We're not deep. We're not deep in any category, not 58, not 68, not 80, not plus 80. I mean some stronger than the others. I think 68, I feel like we have a few, but 80?
Speaker 5:Plus 80? Other than that, why is that, though? It's hard for me to imagine having as much control, having that much in resources and still not having a room full of people. I don't understand.
Speaker 2:Well, I actually found your job interview and I apologize, I don't really mean to share it. I'm going to have to ask you to go ahead and move your desk again, so if you could go, ahead and get it as far back against that wall as possible.
Speaker 3:That would be great. No, I mean I'm here right now, I'm watching, I mean I can talk about Brazil because we have a really good situation right now, but I'm here watching these kids, I'm watching this dude, and I'm like, oh my God man, this kid is good, whatever. And so I asked the coach. I was like, watching these kids, I'm watching this dude, I'm like, oh my god man, this kid good, whatever. And so I asked the coach as well what category I think I know? And he's like, oh, he's number three in 63. I'm like, oh, he's number two. I'm like, oh, where's number one? He's not here. He comes in the next next day. I'm like, holy crap, I thought I thought number three was legit and number two was whoa, and number three smokes them all.
Speaker 3:And I'm like I'm sorry, number one I'm like holy crap, holy crap. This kid is no joke, unbelievable.
Speaker 5:I want like I want like 30 people in the room. I need like 30 america?
Speaker 3:you don't think americans do that apparently, apparently not.
Speaker 5:You did it, we did it at the warehouse, we did moms at the we had. We had bodies on bodies on bodies. Every division guy, girl, big, small, strong, tricky flexible.
Speaker 3:Hey, no money, no money, no money no funding all the more pain to be there.
Speaker 5:That's you know. I think again, I I understand resource, I understand needing resource to build in sport and grow the sport overall, but now sometimes I feel like most of these people do it just to simply say someone paid for them to go somewhere. That's the part that bugs me. It's not, it's not, it's not. It's what for me, it's what you. For me, it's what you do with the resource, like what I would have gave, given, to have that much resource at that time when I was coming through. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So, check gee about that kind of stuff. Check this out the path to just made a rule, just made a rule. I'm not sure it's going to stand up that coaches and athletes it's a rule, kind of not a rule have to go to a one-week training camp before the Pan Am Games to be eligible to coach or fight, but it's kind of mandatory. Yeah, the athletes like everyone competing. That's what they say. They're having this camp, but forget about that you got to pay for it?
Speaker 3:huh, and what if Coach Perez's Grandmaster Perez's, Hyungnim Perez's favorite person is supposed to be presenting the material? Who's that? Someone in your state?
Speaker 4:Huh, I wonder who it could be.
Speaker 3:Down south.
Speaker 4:Huh, I don't know, be Down south.
Speaker 3:Huh, I don't know, I don't know, but I'm thinking about this.
Speaker 2:Put it in the chat. Put it in the chat.
Speaker 3:I'm like I have an Olympic coach that's going to be going there. I have an Olympic coach that has an Olympic medal that's going to be going there and I'm like he's supposed to learn from this coach. I'm not quite for seven days.
Speaker 5:You said someone in California.
Speaker 3:Hold on. Where's my chat? Where's the chat box in this joint?
Speaker 2:Right there, man, I just hit it. You got to put it up Set a secret chat.
Speaker 3:It's okay, man I mean.
Speaker 2:it's okay, man, I mean just tell him, give me an initial.
Speaker 3:I'm not putting it on him because he's just doing his job. He's just doing what he's being hired to do. But if I'm a coach, diego Ribero, he's an Olympic bronze medal coach. He's been to two Olympic games. He's world championships, pan Am Games. He's an Olympic bronze medal coach. He's been to two Olympic games. He's world championships, pan Am Games. He's done everything at a senior level, at an Olympic level, at a Grand Prix level. He's supposed to go for seven days for some Patu person to tell him what to do. Like that's a requirement, like what are we doing, man? And I know I don't know. Sorry, that was an offbeat change of so?
Speaker 2:no, it's not that you got it like so you know, as many people know, we designed and ran the program for usa taekwondo to develop athletes, coaches and whatever. We've talked about this before. But if you're going to bring a high level coach, or even an amateur coach or a wannabe coach in a room, you better have some content to offer. Right so? But most recently, I did the um, wmtu, whatever it was called certifications, before it was absconded by the usa, whatever they call themselves cookie, cookie dough you better and so with that, said the um, we made content.
Speaker 2:So I go to this thing and I'm like, all right, I see what they're gonna present. And I said, all right, let me, let me actually present some content, that kind of matters, and so people can actually learn something. And we did that with our content. Now we didn't have the brightest bunch in the room, you know. We had a lot of guys who had gotten organizational knowledge from. You know, my favorite was this guy from uh somewhere and he goes somewhere where tj, tj is, and he goes. Ah, he calls me up and I'm running the program, I'm seeing you, and he goes.
Speaker 4:I don't understand why we got to take this course and we got to learn this. I have six degrees of black belt given to me by Master Kim and Master Kim and I don't know what periodization is and I don't know why we're talking about women's menstrual cycles.
Speaker 2:And I listened to this guy on the phone and I remember to this day and I go, sir, you are a poster child for my program. Please come in the room and sit down and learn. And there was another guy, juan was there. There was a coach from colorado. I can't remember his name because he, to be honest, never did anything, didn't matter, but in his mind he did. And he, we say are there any questions? And there's like 90 coaches in the room and he stands up and he says I don't understand why we have to. And I was certified. And I did. And I go, sir, we couldn't figure out who got gifted certification. So everybody, including jimmy, kim and us, we took the course, blah, blah. So I finally go to the guy. I go, can I ask you a question? What I said? How many people have you put on the national team? He goes, what does that have to do with anything? I said I'm just curious. How many people have you put on a national team? He, he said none, I go. Great. I said how many people have you sent to the us team trials? What, what, what does that have to do with anything? I go, I'm just curious. None, I go great. I said. How many of your students won the state championships? What do you mean? None, I go great, I said.
Speaker 2:As Herb Perez, owner of Gold Medal Martial Arts, it is thank you. Please, keep doing what you're doing. You're perfectly engineered for the results you're getting and, by the way, you make it easier for my guys to beat yours. As her Perez, ceo of high level training, it's my hope that you'll sit down and learn something now. Sit down and so, of course, you know this is back in the early days of the internet. You know people had keyboards and they're all like, oh, he was so mean. No, that's, that's honest. Look at the results. So, usa Taekwondo, congratulations. You are perfectly engineered for the results you're getting. The last medalist you had in an Olympic Games is on this podcast, and one of the first medalists you had in the Olympic Games is on this podcast. And then the other one, me, is right in the middle. But congratulations, usa Taekwondo, you are perfectly. Oh, we got the Pope. Pope, leo, did he pick?
Speaker 4:his name yet. Is that what?
Speaker 2:he's going to call himself.
Speaker 3:Pope Leo after Lionel Messi.
Speaker 2:I thought it was going to be Pete Zabala. I was really in, but anyway. So what I'm saying is you know, at some point America hasn't learned its lesson, and when it learns, that's a matter a little bit right.
Speaker 5:What's that? I see all these other countries, all these other countries work with their past Olympians, their past people that are somehow involved in the system and keep building the system because they were close to the system. And like I just just like, like you said, it makes no sense. You, you have a, you have people that were at the olympic games and been through the entire process, and you've systematically found a way to exclude them all and then and then like, like, like all of them, though, all of them like, like every single person that's got an olympic medal has left the program has exited the building.
Speaker 2:It's not even I, me, to be honest, it's too easy to make it about us or them or anyone else, but we're not saying about us or them, I'm just saying facts the ones that didn't win are there, though.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah yeah, the losers are in the room and they're running it. That's just the truth. On the other side of it, though, I'm not even going to make it about anyone in particular, I'm just going to make it about systems. Name one professional team, one that doesn't fire the guys who don't perform, Just one One. They don't fire the athletes, they don't fire the coaches. I guess my question how do they convince people.
Speaker 5:I mean, clearly they've convinced the USOC or USOPC or who XYZ the tech window guys that they're successful because they still got money.
Speaker 3:The CEO still gets paid more money.
Speaker 2:I don't understand.
Speaker 5:You've hit another, so we got to be successful right.
Speaker 2:Here's the real. Are we successful? No, the USOPC isn't paying attention. There's no way.
Speaker 3:Dude they're not paying attention.
Speaker 2:There's no way. They don't have anybody in the room that's paying attention. No one in the room is paying attention.
Speaker 4:There's no one in the room no, no, they're not.
Speaker 2:You know why? Because the truth is, usa taekwondo is not meddling. The only reason the usopc whatever usoc, usopc, whatever it's called these days is keeping them in the room is they have to, they're an olympic sport, and in the room because they have to. They're an Olympic sport. And in the off chance that they might medal, that's a medal. Compare it to swimming's medals 50 medals. So, usopc, as long as they're not doing anything illegal or wrong, they're just like they don't care about the medal we're like curling, we're like badminton, we're like pentathlon.
Speaker 4:No, we're like curling, we're like badminton, we're like um pentathlon pentathlon no, we're better than pentathlon.
Speaker 5:I was around pentathlon guys, I was. No, they're not paying attention to that.
Speaker 3:They have yeah, they don't.
Speaker 5:Even we're like to their national teams, like they just show up and like they're the national team, like it's not the same, like it's a. I think I get your point, but that don't don't make me cry. That would be, that would be a terrible comparison.
Speaker 5:That would be a terrible comparison telling you, but but don't make me cry, that would be a terrible comparison. That would be a terrible comparison. I don't know. I remember being a part of the funding meetings when it came to Olympic medals and how much I remember the athletes being in the room when they're telling us how many medal predictions that we're supposed to get, and I remember being upset at that meeting because I remember it was me, paige, stephen and Diana in the uh in the room and they told us that they predicted us to get uh, was it? Two medals and obviously, being who I was at the time and who we were at the time, they weren't talking about me or Paige. And again for me, that that stung me big and I'm like there was no way. I was like that's why we don't get any money, cause that's got it like. So I remember being a part of those conversations. I just it just doesn't make sense to me. What is this?
Speaker 3:what is that oh?
Speaker 5:it's cool looking. It's cool looking.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, dude, I want to go like cyborg stuff, yeah, but that's, that's that's marketing, right, so that's marketing. So she, you know, she the coolest one, but the better one was the guy who was from Kazakhstan or something and he looked like a guy.
Speaker 4:What is that?
Speaker 2:What's that?
Speaker 5:We can't see it.
Speaker 2:Is that your daily walk ring? Are these your steps for today? Bro, these are my shooting man.
Speaker 4:Oh nice 10 meters.
Speaker 5:I see it now. I see it now.
Speaker 3:Y'all are going to recognize man.
Speaker 2:Dude, I'm not even sure I would give you a gun.
Speaker 3:Shit. I carry my gun every time. I go Everywhere, not here.
Speaker 5:Not out there.
Speaker 3:But in Miami I do. Anyway, listen, I know we're going around in circles and stuff like that, but I'm just, you know, going back to what I said, just listen, I try to do the right thing, I try to reach out, I try to make conversations and just to be shunned or just not even acknowledged is just, I think, unacceptable on a professional level. You not even acknowledge is just, I think, unacceptable on a professional level. You don't like me. You don't like me, I'm a jerk. I'm a jerk, I'm too much, I'm too much, but just on a professional level. Because TJ, you said it, or Herbie, you know, because you put me in a room with somebody that I basically threatened.
Speaker 3:But I've worked with people that I don't personally like on a personal level, but on a professional level. Just like you said, tj, I went to work every freaking day. I, you know, bit my knuckle and we got some stuff done together. Whether we liked each other or not, we got some stuff together. And you know what? To be honest with you, we found out that when it came to the sport, we had a lot more in common than we didn't, and and that was some. That was some some hard times. Those were some not fun times, me and my co-worker we could probably both admit that but we got some good shit done, man and results.
Speaker 2:And results.
Speaker 3:And I'm just saying at the end of the day, here we are, we should be better 15 years later.
Speaker 5:We should be better and we're not injection and this guy just went up there with his regular prescription glasses.
Speaker 3:He's a gangster, this is a gangster, oh yeah won a silver medal, but if you think he had?
Speaker 5:just a dude who watched john wick movies to the olympics. Think again dikic is actually competing in his fifth Olympic, not crazy it was a G, yeah, but anyway.
Speaker 2:So I mean not to you know again. I think we have to get to a place at some point where we talk about solutions, and not because we're trying to give them solutions, because it doesn't really matter. I think we have to go back to a fundamental question of what's in the best interest of the organization, what's in the best interest of the young? You all teach young athletes, you all teach young athletes. I do what is it? Easy, easy.
Speaker 3:First and foremost, you have to get true buy-in. People have to feel like they're involved and that they are respected enough to be integrated into the system. Listen, whatever you guys want to say, the peak performance model, there's a boss. It's me, it's my name, it's my brand. But TJ, coach Lee, coach Brad, coach Sinopio, coach Russell, coach Mark, coach Bisbaugh, coach Martin, coach Lallone, coach Jenkins, all those guys are valued. Coach Tom, coach Tim, they're all valued, they all have their place. We get together and we work together and we bring them in. And all the people I just told you and I'm excluding TJ, and it's not a bad thing they were nobodies but they came in and they fit into a program and they became somebody Every name that I just mentioned, every single one of them. But they came in and they fit into a program and they became somebody. They've all, every name that I just mentioned, every single one of them have produced junior or cadet, cadet junior and some senior national teams, some world champions. I haven't produced a world champion me, but one of my coaches produced a world champion. So all of them felt wanted, felt needed.
Speaker 3:You have to get buy-in, true buy-in, and this organization does not have true buy-in. They have some people that come in because they get something, because they get a, a position or a title, but there's not true buy-in. If there was true buy-in, there would be freaking 30 people at that organization, 30 people on that academy team. Tj, you said it before. You're right. There was a time where we had a room very deep I don't want to go into numbers Very deep but there is not true buy-in. There is not a coach that can sit there and go. I'm going to give my kid over there. They don't do it. They do it because they think that's all they have to do it.
Speaker 3:I'm saying what's real and you guys know it. You guys know it. I told you guys. Last week on the podcast, I had two coaches come up to me and both of them said you're saying what everybody is thinking. You're saying what everybody is thinking. You're saying what everybody wants to say and it's the truth. If it was true buy-in, they wouldn't be begging people to come out there. People would be knocking on the doors to come out there and they're not. It would be easy, right? Tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker 5:Tell me I'm wrong. It should be easy. It should be easy, it should be simple, it should be desired. Again, I don't know if it's a lack of, like you said and this is not pinpoint I don't know if it's a lack of desire or a lack of understanding how or what or when. But you didn't tell me you can't pack that room. You can't tell me, even historically, you can't tell me was this eight years deep into this program, or how many ever years they've been here that we're not packing the room at this point?
Speaker 3:That's a great point Five years, four years. You guys haven't spread your gospel enough that people aren't banging down your doors. Young, you said it, fire them If you can't do it in two years, three years, four years, five years go. You failed, you failed, am I wrong? Am I years? Three years, four years, five years go. You're. You failed, you failed, am I wrong?
Speaker 2:am I wrong? You're right, but I mean they've gotta, like you know, they people have to when it's enough, when people have had enough, it'll be enough. Right now, it's not enough I feel bad.
Speaker 3:I mean it's gotta be enough let me say this I do not feel good talking like this, but it's the truth. It's the truth. I mean, tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong. In seven years, you can't build something bigger than what you built.
Speaker 5:Don't tell me, we don't talk like this.
Speaker 3:Don't tell me we had, we had one result, we had this, we had that. Don't tell me that. Stop that. You know we we had this, we had that. Don't tell me that. Stop that we got a medal at the world championships, a medal at the Olympics. That's not. You haven't built growth, you haven't, you just haven't. And it's been five-plus years, more than that, and that's just not acceptable. And Herb, you're right. And Herb you're right In any business, any stretch of professional sporting, if you haven't done it, you're gone. I mean NFL coaches get three years, two years by third year. Guys that won the NBA championships in Denver one year out, they fired them.
Speaker 5:One year. So just to be clear, that's the thing. This, this is not success, but it's being sold as success. It's being sold as we are somehow in the midst of the game, petitioning for first or second. We're not, we're not, we're. We're part of the game, I guess.
Speaker 5:But again, I mean, I'm just, I'm just being honest, no yeah there's, there's, there, there, we should again, after talking about the training camps, they are talking about the following they understand everybody's system is different but, like you know, we, we should be bigger than this. And if this is, if you go, we got four people, four guys and four girls, and those are ones in the room, and all the money and resources when we look back as being spent on these four guys or four girls, they should all be rock stars. They all gotta be gold medalists they all got to be.
Speaker 5:Olympic gold medals at that point, with that much money.
Speaker 2:They all got to be Olympic gold medals. Either that or move on. I did find the director of high performance, so that's a little-known Sherman Spinks video, but anyway, know hard to find those between him proselytizing, you know, and his mixed messages, you know. He's got to talk to the new Pope. The Pope's got to help redirect that guy's energy. But you know, I again I want to at some point we'll focus more on. I mean, we called it an evolution, a revolution, whatever you want to call it a reinvention, but it's got to be deconstructed because right now it's not working. And I don't really care about why it's not working, because the why at this point doesn't matter. You really don't have a choice. But you have to change. You're listening to some Brazilian. What do you? Got over there. Did you hear that? Tj?
Speaker 5:A little bit.
Speaker 4:It was like.
Speaker 3:It was Uzbekistani.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was Uzbekistani. Shares a commonality with Portuguese.
Speaker 3:Actually, it shares a commonality with Turkish and whatever Azerbaijan language. It's very close. I just learned that and I don't really know myself but, it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 2:I think the next show we might have somebody on, or I think it's time to start talking about solutions. I would invite Patrice from Mark on because he's doing a bunch of stuff, but to be honest, I can't understand Patrice all the time on videos.
Speaker 3:Oh, look at this guy that handsome devil. I'm speaking. You want to know something.
Speaker 2:I'm looking this right now and I see the poster behind TJ's face. Oh my God, there's a similarity there. There's a similarity. There's a similarity. Let's strike a pose.
Speaker 5:Hold on.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, we've taken enough of your time. We're almost at an hour today. Anything else for the good of the order? Yes, sir.
Speaker 5:We can keep talking about this for another hour. If you want, I'm listening. Yes, sorry not.
Speaker 3:I'm listening. Can I say something? Yes, sorry, not sorry, mf.
Speaker 2:There you go. Sorry, not sorry, and that is our theme song and you got to listen. I'm going to release the full version of it soon.
Speaker 3:Congratulations to the new Pope from Chi-Town Yep. He's a Cubs fan. Represent.
Speaker 2:Let's go, baby, let's go. May the new post reign in glorious and frivolous and fratless.
Speaker 4:Be careful, I'm going to keep it.
Speaker 2:Take it easy Hold on, let me move over a little bit.
Speaker 3:You better take it easy, old boy.
Speaker 2:Best of with that papa Look, my mic disappeared.
Speaker 4:Voila.
Speaker 2:That's like magic TJ. Anything for the good of the order.
Speaker 5:Magic, I'm good. I'm good, all right, I can see your nipples.
Speaker 2:Keep your nipples hard. I can still see them. This has been the Warehouse 15. Hold on. If we're going to be doing that, hold on, hold, house 15.
Speaker 3:Hold on If we're going to be doing that hold on, Hold on yeah baby, that is 65.
Speaker 2:That is what 65 looks like. You want me to take my clothes off? No, I was listening very carefully both of your descriptions of your massages, so I'm calling SafeSport as soon as this podcast is over.
Speaker 3:I think you guys have a claim. They fired the.
Speaker 2:SafeSport claim they fired the safe sport guys. They fired the guys. They fired them all. They fired them all because they were doing a horrible job. I just heard, just recently. I just heard, anyway, the clown show over there is over too, gentlemen we're out Deuces Later Peace.