Masters Alliance
9th Dan BlackBelt and Olympic Gold Medalist Herb Perez visit with the best and brightest to bring clarity to the future of Martial arts.
Masters Alliance
Talent ID Camps: Money Grab or Genuine Development?
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Three Olympic gold medalists engage in a no-holds-barred critique of USA Taekwondo's latest cash grab – yet another "Talent ID Camp" charging athletes $225 for a chance to be "discovered." The hosts unpack why this approach fundamentally misunderstands how genuine talent identification works in successful sports programs worldwide.
Drawing from their extensive experience both as athletes and coaches, they contrast USAT's pay-to-participate model with legitimate talent development systems used by countries like Australia and China, as well as private initiatives that return proceeds directly to participating athletes. The discussion reveals a troubling pattern of leadership treating the organization as a "personal playground" while members remain complacent.
Most revealing is their analysis of how America's most promising taekwondo talents are currently developing outside the national system. Athletes like Michael Rodriguez and North are finding success through private coaching arrangements, raising serious questions about the effectiveness of centralized training programs that force athletes to abandon successful coaching relationships.
With the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics approaching and America automatically qualifying four athletes as host nation, the team examines what this means for USA Taekwondo's development pipeline and Olympic prospects. Their candid conversation provides an insider's view of the challenges facing American taekwondo and what must change for the U.S. to maximize its potential on the world stage.
The podcast wraps with exciting predictions about the upcoming Grand Prix Challenge and reflections on what truly makes a champion – the right training partners, dedicated coaches, and the freedom to build on success rather than constantly starting over.
Tagpone Goes Raw Introduction
Speaker 1From the dojo to your eardrum, here we come. Perez Moreno, Jennings, the triple threat, Olympic gold, no doubt. No regrets. Warehouse 15, the truth we unpack. No sugarcoating, no holding back. Sorry, not sorry for the words we choose. If the truth stings, that's on you, not us, to lose. Tagpone goes raw. We lay it bare. Your feelings might bruise, but we just don't care. We speak our minds. No apologies sent.
Speaker 2This ain't Warehouse 15. And today I am joined by my illustrious teammates, friends, colleagues and contemporaries. Coach Moreno, how are you, sir?
Speaker 3Man, I'm great. I'm fresh off my return from your new adopted home state of California. I was in Fresno, never been there before. I found out that I was in the middle of the state. I found out that it's one of the biggest agricultural areas in the country. I cracked up because when I got out I thought I was in Texas. I never seen so many cowboy boots and big pickup trucks. But let me tell you what great food. People were super nice. I went to Carter's Taekwondo. They have a huge, over 10,000 square foot facility, giant place you could hold a tournament in this area.
Speaker 3Their grandmaster is Master Carter. He's very prominent in the Kuda organization. Their son, austin, has a very good team, a lot of young kids, and got a chance to work with them for a couple days and then when we did matches at the end these guys were scrappy. These guys are tough. Let me tell you, and you know, the California State Championships is huge. I mean, these kids are getting you know four matches, five matches, and some of these boys in little girl division. So they're four matches, five matches in some of these boys and little girl divisions. They're tough. I had a great time. It was a wonderful experience, made some new friends. It was awesome. Now they're back to training here in Miami.
Speaker 2Good that you came out to visit California. It is a big state. Some people don't realize.
Speaker 2One of the biggest economies in the world, not just in the United States. It's similar to Jersey, jersey. You got a lot of industrial areas, you got a lot of business areas, but then there's garden. You're called the garden state for a reason. That's where I grew up and you know. If you go to certain parts of jersey, you know you, you think you were down south. That's how beautiful it is and and and things of that nature. So glad you came out. Thank you for stopping by. Sorry, not sorry, but I might have missed you on this trip. But you know I don't drive to Fresno because of the pickup trucks and the cowboy boots. But you're correct, he runs a great program and has a big facility and one of my favorite milks, I think, is made out that way Rossa's milk and it's flavored and it might be fresno. There's another big milk company out there because it's a big dairy thing. How you doing, mr tj? How is everything going?
Speaker 4so everything's good. It finally stopped raining over here, so just enjoying a little bit of sun. Not as crazy weekend, just some regular training stuff. Just uh. Always excited to get to ths, my therapy days.
Speaker 3Did you go to the ATU? I didn't go to the ATU.
Speaker 4One of the guys that trains with me on the weekends, went to the ATU. He actually ended up getting silver. Shout out to my guy Brody. He's at Master Kim's school in South Carolina.
Speaker 3He comes out on the weekends and trains with us. It looked big, check this out, check, check this out. There's a guy in florida and I and I only know this because I'm in a local tournament one time and they're like juan moreno, to ring three. So I'm like what? So I go, it's a local tournament, I run to ring three and they're looking at me and they're like no, no, not you. And they're like one more. I'm like I am juan moreno. This kid comes up.
Speaker 3His name is juan moreno no, it's like oh, I meet him, so I see him in all the terms and I remember when he's a yellow belt and a green belt and he would do forms and fighting. I would always watch him a good looking kid, nice kid, respectful kid. Um became a black belt. Actually. He trains with someone that I know and they would come on tuesdays and thursdays and train with us a little bit. And so TJ sends me the bracket and it's Juan Moreno, florida, and he fights his guy. And so then I didn't tell you this, tj, his dad sent me the bracket. He's like I'm sorry, my son had to beat the goat. My son had to beat the goat and I'm laughing, but it's kind of funny.
Speaker 3The same name from Florida. It's kind of ironic.
Speaker 4That's pretty cool, but it looked like a good turnout there. I didn't actually get to see it, but I know a lot of other coaches that go out there for the ATU Nationals.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, it's an up-and-down tournament here and there.
Speaker 2Well, I just wanted to let everybody know that the Kukiwon posted a board of directors announcement Somebody showed me for if you want a seat on the kooky one. So I encourage everybody to apply because then they can deny you. You best not apply on your list. Your name is Kim Lee or Park and the historical Kim Lee or Park, not Moreno, not Moreno.
Speaker 3My name is Lowe.
Speaker 2Yeah, you can be assured they'll pick the usual suspects and, uh, you'll go through the process. So but it will, really it'll speak volumes to kooky. One's getting a lot of pushback across the world for its um exclusionary practices and then trying to make people take these master courses which don't make any sense and get recertified to become a recommender of black belts something that people have been doing for 40 or 50 years and teach Taekwondo. So, um, yeah, we'll see. I mean we should apply just to apply, um, but we'll see what happens. But I, I may or may not apply and I, I encourage all of you to apply, because you can't cry unless you apply, if you don't enter the mix, um, you know, you can't complain about the results. You can't win the olympics unless you enter the olympics and you can't win a lottery unless you play it. So I, that's my, uh.
Speaker 3Public service announcement you could be, but we'll talk about that later.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3I got a quick factoid. This is for all my hockey friends. Do you realize that there hasn't been a Canadian team in over 25 years that have won the Stanley Cup, Matter of fact, in the last six years six years, the Florida You're about to start a war. Listen to this. This is my man, Mark Warburton, out there. I know you're listening to me.
Speaker 4I got you man Check this out.
Speaker 3Master Park, don't talk to me about those Winnipeg Jets, man. They got bounced. Check this out. In the last six years in the Stanley Cup it's been Florida teams the Tampa Bay went to three Stanley Cups and won two in a row, and now the Florida Panthers in Miami not a hockey town they've gone to three Stanley Cups in a row. They won last year and we'll see what happens this year. I think it's going to be a repeat of Florida and Edmonton. Edmonton, I think, actually has the advantage this time, so Canada might get theirs. But that's crazy to think that a Canadian hockey club with Montreal, toronto, you know, winnipeg, calgary, Edmonton, these powerhouses of teams haven't won in 25 years, crazy right. Haven't won in 25 years, crazy right.
Speaker 2Well it's you know it's as I usually do. I was able to find a picture of the Canadians playing hockey.
Speaker 4So let me share this with you.
Speaker 2Let me, let me. Oh, I'm in the wrong thing, I went to the wrong place.
Speaker 3Let me try this with you, let me. I'm in the wrong thing. I went to the wrong place. Let me try to go back. Don't put the wrong thing up, don't put anything weird up there.
Coach Moreno's California Training Visit
Speaker 2Let me get the right thing up here. Let me get where is my. Let me try to find it back.
Speaker 1I don't watch that much hockey.
Speaker 2You don't watch that much hockey.
Speaker 4I don't watch that much hockey. You don't watch that much hockey. The carolina hurricanes man, carolina was in the finals. I meant to go to a game when I was in colorado.
Speaker 2I never actually made it to one. Yeah, they're good too. Yeah, stay in room. I I know there you guys are I was trying. No, I'm trying to find you guys. Let me stop sharing. Let me do it right because I did it wrong. Let me do it correctly. Here is why can't I find it is the question. Oh, never mind, I'll show it later. I had it. I don't know where it went. So there's something absolutely wrong with me. I don't know where it goes.
Speaker 2But anyway, let me not share it if I can't figure out how to do it today. But it would have been funny if I could have figured out how to do it.
Speaker 3You missed it Timing is everything, coach. Timing is everything, timing is everything.
Speaker 2You are correct, my friend. All right, so let's get started. What do we got today?
Speaker 3Listen, I got to go off the bat, man, I got to swing it. Listen, it just came out. Actually, me and TJ talked about it. I was laughing at TJ because he made a comment and I'm like you got to be crazy. They're coming out with another version, three, tj, or four at least three talent ID camp. What Talent ID camp?
Speaker 2They come out with more versions of the talent ID camp than Tide comes out with versions of their detergent.
Speaker 3And it's not just a talent ID camp to show what you got, and we're looking for athletes for 2028 and beyond. I'm like, first of all, if we don't know out the athlete pool in 2025 for 2028, I think we're in trouble Because, to be honest with you, you're, you're done by 2027, right, tj? I mean, you got to know who you're going to pick.
Speaker 3And so I'm just like again, maybe that was just a misstatement or whatever, but I just I thought it was crazy. And then, uh, my, my colleague here was like, man, it's gotta be free, right's got to be free, right. And I'm like, come on, it can't be free.
Speaker 4So after a little, research by Coach Jennings.
Speaker 3What did you find out, Coach? How much, how much.
Speaker 4I think it was like $2.75 for early bird or something like that. What?
Speaker 1$2.75 for what Early bird? That's what it said.
Speaker 4Monkey said what 225 an ID?
Speaker 3camp to show you what you got over two days, and of course they're going to make a little money on it. They're going to take these kids money or whatever, and I don't know where they're going to go. Maybe they have a new invention, maybe they have a new system, a new program. I guess I always got to give people the benefit of the doubt, but it's hard when it's been done once, twice, three times and I just lit a candle.
Speaker 3I lit a candle for taekwondo's fate I just, you know, I, I, I gotta say I mean, but there's people that have done the talent id camps and like I just don't understand where they you you did, you were, you forget tj no, I don't forget.
Speaker 2You were in a talent ID camp that we created. We met you, we saw you, we identified you and we thought you'd make great ramen. No, no, we thought you were good at taekwondo. So we identified you as a guy who was good for taekwondo. And how much did we charge you?
Speaker 4Zero. You know I asked Coach Randall that question. It's crazy because my mom came down and she bought me a bunch of stuff from you know, the stuff she kept over the years, and it was a letter from the Virginia state president saying you know, you've been selected from Virginia to go to the OTC for a training camp. And then there was a letter from Coach Hanwan Lee at the time, back after the training camp. You know, kind of like saying like I did this good, this good, you know I have all this blah, blah, blah, blah and I kind of was kind of cool to look back to see the following of you know where the, where it started, kind of where it went to and like the exchange. But I know they've done this, this before. I just don't. What do you do?
Speaker 3What's different this time, you know what, of not acknowledge the fact that it's just. It just kind of. You know, happened they, you know they went to these talent camps and then nothing and then nothing. But I mean, and again I'm let me first of all the talent id camp that you went to a long time ago. That was for adults and seniors right, you know, juniors transitioning in it was a very select group. Um, of course it didn't cost. You got your hotel, you got your, you training was free, the, the eating was free and the rooming was free at the old TC at a time. So it's just a different era.
Speaker 3But, like, I want to just talk about the now and the present, because you know we've had these things. Some of them are pretty big. I think the early ones were very big. I think they've they've shrunk as we've gotten down the line, because I think people are a little bit skeptical. But I know there's a big one in Texas that was run extremely well by coach Johnny Jambi and you know they they brought in a bunch of people and they made a lot of a good chunk of change that was hopefully supposed to be reinvested in those kids, and I'm not sure, if it was I don't want to talk ill will cause I don't know, but I've heard. I don't know the details so I can't talk 100%.
Speaker 3But I guess my point is like what Two days? You got two days. Is it for kids? Is it for seniors? Is it for juniors, is it for boys? Is it for the girls? Cadets, what is it for how long is it going to be three coaches? What if they get 100 people there? They got 100 people for three coaches. Like, what are we doing here? I just think it has to be a little bit more thought out.
Speaker 3The timing of it is, I think, one week after the Nationals, I think roughly at the same time that the under-22 kids are going to the Pan Am games. I know there's no perfect time here. I am building excuses, but I just was a little bit frustrated when I saw that, because come up with something new. I mean they have this new seminar series that they're doing with a bunch of people. Okay, great, it's building some money for those guys. I guess, maybe building money for the organization, that's great. It's giving information out to the different areas. I think that's all great. I mean it is what it is they to the different areas. I think that's all great, I mean, and that's, it is what it is. You know they call it, you know their level up. But this talent ID, when you say that, it just wow. It just sparks a reaction from from me and a lot of other people, a lot of other coaches, like we've done this before, two or three times, and here we go again. So I don't know. That's my, my quick rant for the day.
Speaker 2Well, talent ID. So when you create a high-performance plan for the uninitiated, a high-performance plan is required by the US Olympic Committee in order for them to disperse funds to your sport from the Olympic winnings, from LA and LA is another story we should talk about at some point because they're going to have some challenges but you take that money which the Olympic Committee invest in the Olympic Foundation and some other things, and the money that it makes through its sponsorship deals and it allocates it to the sport. So in Taekwondo's case, they allocate a certain amount of money and in order to get that money, you have to put a plan together called a high performance plan. And in order to get that money, you have to put a plan together called a high performance plan. One component of that is you need to demonstrate how you're going to find talent in the grassroot level, what you're going to do to develop them, what you're going to do to get them into the pipeline. The pipeline goes from grassroots, which is where all of us live as small coaches, in small facilities, which is in small facilities, and then, as you go up through that pipeline, you go into the different levels of elite State levels should be regional levels and then obviously national teams and then your elite, elite competitors. But when you do this ID, the idea is access and inclusion, not exclusion based on economics or relationships. And what we've seen with the USAT's model is it's exclusionary and it's cost prohibitive in a lot of cases, and that's not the original idea behind the ID, the ID model.
Speaker 2I'll give you one from another country. Australia goes to public schools and it does a series of tests, athletic tests on kids. China does the same thing and they're biometric tests. They might look at a kid's ability to throw, jump, run, stop, whatever, and then through that they identify a pool of athletes and then they kind of funnel them to sports and give them access to the sports that they think might be helpful for them. And so towards that end, the question is, what is Taekwondo doing? Is it a money grab or is it a true talent grab?
Speaker 2And in true talent grabs and identification you talk to local coaches. And I'll give you again another thing from my life. In my situation there are local scouts that come around to all these various games and they go to clubs where they know there are good players or there's going to be good games and they watch kids. They then identify that kid, they track the kid and then, if they like the kid, they invite them to a talent the equivalent of a talent ID camp, of a talent id camp. And in my situation with my son, that's how he got invited to this earthquakes uh camp right, a professional team. Because they watched them, they tracked them, they told us we've been tracking him, we want to see him now in our environment, come on trial.
Speaker 2And you know how much it cost zero, nothing, nothing, not a dollar. We didn't spend a dollar, we didn't have to spend a dollar. We went to this training thing and it was. And that's what the colleges do. They come out and Zero, nothing, nothing, not a dollar. We didn't spend a dollar, we didn't have to spend a dollar. We went to this training thing, and that's what the colleges do.
Speaker 4They come out and they're like hey, we want to see you guys in town. I thought this one would be free because it was at their location. I thought you know what I mean. We're not talking overhead. We're not talking shifting someone's schedule. We're not even at this point. I'm not going to talk about any of that stuff. I thought I was going to be free.
Speaker 2Well, apparently USA Taekwondo is Spirit Airlines, so USA Taekwondo has become Spirit Airlines.
Speaker 4Yeah but when you talk about, like you said, identifying talent and trying to get people in a room, we're talking over the span of two days. How many people I mean? That's a lot to ask. No, ass.
Speaker 2No, we're talking flights you're talking, you gotta ask yourself what your goal is.
Speaker 4I don't know I guess that's the question, that the goal of the whole. Like you said, we could be wondering what's the goal of the talent id stuff I I've heard. Well, coach merendel said something.
Speaker 2Good too, coach said listen what do you do with the money? In other words, I don't mind talent id money. So if you say we're going to take um 250 because we don't, by the way, they're doing the talent ID wrong. If you, if the way your kid's getting to it is he pays $250, then you are wasting people's times. You're wasting time. You need to get guys that either you identify or people in your, in your club, and guess what happens? In other words, in in soccer, for example, if our coach recommends a guy to go on trial or says the guy is good and the guy sucks, that club doesn't call us anymore. You know they're like he goes. I'm not putting myself out on this kid because it it comes back they don't trust me anymore. And so when they call stanford to come watch kids, that's because they think stanford will be interested in the kid. They don't say that that doesn't go. Hey, can you get me an invite to go to Stanford? Or here's 250 bucks. You know you gotta be. It's talent first.
Speaker 2Now if you took that money, let's say you did charge your money. That's not a talent ID camp, that's a training camp. That's a different thing. Talent ID, even a reach, is to take that money and then what do you do with it? Well, if you did something with it would be we've identified you guys. We need this money because we're going to take a small group of people we choose and take them on a trip somewhere and put them in international training facility. Now you go. Okay, I'm investing in the greater good. That money's going and set it to jay warwick and uh and steve mcnally's plane tickets. It's going to something that matters you know I mean so, tj.
Speaker 3I don't mean you talk privately one time about okay, if you're trying to identify talent, herb, you'll talk about it in soccer stuff. Look, go to the Nationals, go to the team trials.
Speaker 1Go to the.
Speaker 3US Open Like, be there so you could actually identify them. You wouldn't even have to have this open cat call because you would be able to identify them. If you can't do that, something simple as if you won a medal at the U? S open or at the national championships that qualifies you for it. We've identified you through your winnings and then you come in there and if you right, or if you're going to do just a USA, take one no summer camp or two day training camp, do it, take the money and just say what it is. We're offering things, we're giving you a service and we're charging money for it. But if it's an ID camp and you're charging for it, it gets a little mixed. I mean, I'm going to talk good about Alex Covert.
Speaker 3Alex Covert has this Taekwondo union First started out in the Great Lakes, now we've got them all over. I'm going to one this weekend. I'm not saying it's the perfect model, but what he does is he gets people together. They come and all the coaches. They break them up by categories. The coaches take turns coaching everybody. They fight in the afternoon and do matches, test matches, in the late afternoon and then he turns around and gives them money immediately right back to the coaches all vote these five cadets, these five juniors, these five seniors, and if they make ten thousand dollars, they give each person 200 bucks. If they make 20, they give them 500 bucks. Whatever, the only thing that's taken out is the expenses for the gym, um, the mats. Like that, nobody makes money. They give it right back. That's a great initiative, you know I keep looking.
Speaker 2I'm looking for my in. I was looking for my invite to one of these events. I'm looking everywhere. I haven't seen it. So maybe Alex doesn't know me.
Speaker 3Oh well, actually I think they're just starting in California. They're doing a lot on the Midwest to the West East Coast right now. To be fair, he's just starting out. He did this as a private thing in Great Lakes and he did it with Michigan, chicago, indiana, canada and he just expanded it this year, starting in January. So I know the New York area is going on. Their second one, florida down here it's called the East Coast, is their second one and again, I'm not saying it's the best or whatever, but it's a great initiative. It's action-orientated, it's giving back to the athletes and it's a great initiative. It's action orientated, it's giving back to the, to the, to the athletes, and it's just it's creating a community. For that I got to applaud them. I mean, I've got a bad thing to say about it, you know it's. And again, it's a private guy doing these things. You know what I mean. When I see that, I'm like how can the organization not do bigger and better? So just a little bit of a, a little pet peeve right now for me.
Speaker 2I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit sour on that no, you said it, you said it right, and I I love people that do private things. You know, I got a call from a friend of mine, uh, talking about something that you, you've been talking about. So they're trying to figure out where they want to invest their time and money and coverage. And he asked me about the uh, whatever that thing is called that um, rick shin, what's it? Combat Taekwondo, and so they may reach out to Rick and talk about that. But that's a private effort to do something that's well-funded, and I think when you privatize some of these efforts, you've got to kind of talk about it. Your program, the Peak Performance thing, was a privatized development program that had great success and did something that other people have been unable to do in a new way, in a very creative and entrepreneurial sense, that others couldn't do, and so I think there is room for growth in entrepreneurial efforts to expand the reach of Taekwondo, and those are private. Let's be clear If you come to a private program, there are private expenses associated with it because you don't have the Olympic purse strings on it. So I applaud those private efforts to fix it. But the question then becomes if you go to a private camp. Let's be clear you get better service and you should, because you're paying a premium price for better service. If you go to a public health care facility, for example, you don't get the same level of service if you go to a public healthcare facility, for example. You don't get the same level of service if you go to a private health care. So people pay for what they want. So I don't expect USA Taekwondo, I really don't expect anything from them, but I don't expect them to be able to provide the same service that a private guy might be able to provide. But on the same token, for what they get from the Olympic Committee and for what the members get charged. And they should get some level of service and expectation and inclusion, not exclusion.
Speaker 2And I think what we always come back to is we come back to this thing where we realize the people at the helm either they have two possibilities and we always say this One is they're ignorant or naive, or the other one is they just don't care. So if they're naive and they don't know better, that's a different problem. If they're ignorant, that's worse, because they should know better. And then if they're just profiteering, that's the worst. And I think we find ourselves in a situation where the chicken the fox is watching the chicken coop for for that's a TJ analogy for North Carolina and the the fox and the chickens don't care and, more importantly, people don't realize they are the chicken.
Speaker 2They got the foxes, which are Jay, steve at crew and pastor schmoogie boogie. He and them are running the organization to their personal, like their personal playground, and they're allowed to why? Because the chickens don't care. So you know, in a weird way, you and I and tj, we complain every week. The people that should be complaining aren't complaining or if they're complaining nobody's listening I don't think they're complaining.
Speaker 4Every time I see an initiative or a post or a topic, it's always some really random. There was one last, when I was staring at a brick wall for about three and a half minutes, some video they put up and I don't know what that was, but anyways, um, you know it's even sorry. You know it's even more crazy to me because we are getting the olympics in la right, the lead up to it. We don't have any grand prixs here like an actual grand prix, not a challenge, I mean like actual grand prix leading into olympic games, like that's. That's like that's crazy to me. Being united states of america, we, we should have an actual great. There should be a a was a g6, now g6 grand Prix in the United States leading up to LA right. It should.
Speaker 3Or Pan Am Championships or something.
Speaker 4Something big right.
Speaker 3You know, part of me thinks that they don't care because they know they got their four people, so they're going to qualify it already.
Speaker 2And you said that correctly. In other words, when they're the host, they automatically get four. So have they fallen asleep at the wheel? They don't have to qualify now. All they got to do is choose we're still getting eight, though.
Speaker 1Eight, it was eight.
Speaker 3Did we say eight. No, they said eight. No, you only get two.
Speaker 4They said we're going to dominate in 20. Oh, that's what they said. We're supposed to get all divisions.
Speaker 3I heard one of my friends in the Board of Governors. They said that it should be feasible to get eight people.
Speaker 1It's very reasonable for them to do it. How?
Speaker 3I mean that's just a ridiculous statement Feasible. I mean, first of all, no country has ever done that, certainly not the United States, when there's Iran and Korea and Russia, I mean no one's done it.
Speaker 2But let me understand what that means. So the US can pick four. They pick four spots because that's the max allotment, right? Or is it 18 max? They get two and two.
Speaker 3Two and two is automatic, but what possibly possibly could happen? You could qualify four and four by the olympic ranking. So if you get top five in the or the grand slam, let's say top five and fin weight, featherweight, welterweight, heavyweight, and the same thing for men and women, theoretically name one country that's ever done it that's my point no yeah, nobody has so all of a sudden, america is going to do it.
Speaker 3I mean, listen, it's a great goal, we should have some goals, but I think y'all's I goals. But I think we should be in the business of being realistic too. So I mean, have lofty goals, but that's a little bit much.
Speaker 2Well, with 2026, and let me ask you both a question then In your estimation in 2026, which is two years from the Games, I can think back to pretty much any Olympic year and I probably could have identified the people that were going to be the Olympians two years later. Pretty much, if you looked at 86 to 88, 90 to 92, 98 to 2000,. I can tell you I could name them without even thinking and it was pretty clear two years out, and with the exception of you on the, you were on the cusp right, you. But even then I would have said, I would have said in 86, you were on the cusp right, you can, you'll be within uh realm of it all. So where?
Speaker 3are they? Where are they now?
Speaker 2where are they now?
Speaker 3well, right now, I think that these guys have I think they do have a couple people that they think, especially on the men's side, which is is a little bit strange, kind of going into this whole program, kind of kicking back to the talent ID program. We're stuck with the same two original people that came in seven years ago. I'm just going to say CJ and John Healy. Those are the two males that are on the national team from the academy. They're from the original group, the academy. They're from, they're from the original, the original group. And yet they're still here and there's not another one what about this?
Speaker 2mike mike rodriguez, kid, you talked about, yeah, I mean, but he's not with them.
Speaker 3I mean that's that's, that's my guy, that's tj's guy, right? I mean that's a guy that we we've done, we've developed and we brought up. But I listen, if I had to, if I had to bet right now they're going to leave him on the outside. They want these other two guys. I mean we're going to have two years. You know everyone's going to have two years because all these things, all these points are going to get reset and we're going to see, starting next year, who can really put up.
Speaker 3Yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be.
Speaker 4It's crazy Cause, like I mean again, every country is going to go through this at the exact same time. But going back to zero two years out, it's a race. At that point it's up north. He's a good young kid.
Speaker 3He's going to fight 74-80. He's going to be at this Grand Prix. He's been training in Europe a lot. He goes back and forth between Europe and Fort Lauderdale with his father. They have a good rhythm.
Speaker 3I give the kid a lot of credit. He's like 18 years old. He's fighting big matches. He's winning some. He's losing some. He's meddling all the time. I mean he's just like any up and coming athlete. He doesn't look afraid. He stands in front of anybody. He's in hard out. He's not going away. He pulls matches out. When he's dominating he dominates. So I think he's going to give some 80 guys, especially in our country, a run for their money, and I'm saying that right now.
Speaker 3I mean, give the kid two years. It's the same thing with Michael Rodriguez Young, obviously fearless. He still has a lot to prove, just like everybody. But if I got to bet, I'm betting on those two young kids. If I got to bet, knowing what the Olympic age range is, I'm investing heavily in those two kids. The ironic thing is both of those kids are doing well outside the program, outside the program. Now, will the program assist them and add to what they're doing? Will they cut them off? Will they require them to come. That's going to be a question that's going to be probably talked about over the next six months.
Speaker 4You got to get away from that requirement to come stuff though.
Speaker 1Like I said, like it, just like I said yeah like it just doesn't make any.
Speaker 4Again. You I I said it last podcast like I was allowed to stay and train in a certain place because I had success there. But when I first joined the wcap program I had success there, so I was allowed to keep building, at least going in that direction, as opposed to up, like you said, changing your whole system, change your whole training plan, relearning and not building from where you are until you almost get to that brink where you need to possibly go somewhere else. I think we're doing it too early. I don't TJ.
USAT's Talent ID Camp Controversy
Speaker 3I'm going to tell you something. This model is the new model, and I'll tell you why. Even Mexico, mexico, has the most traditional national program out there. It's known from cadet, junior, junior. You make the team, you go. And brisaida acosta was one of the main people that lived in miami. She left her program, she came to miami, she trained with me. We got her to the olympics. She won a pan am game, she won grand prix medals and she won world championship medals, and she was one of the first people that left. They let me coach at the Olympic trials First time ever.
Speaker 3Now, guess what? Carl Sensores is training the heavyweight. He's training by himself. Guess what? Daniela I forgot her last name Daniela is training. She's training outside with her personal coach. So both of her two Olympians are not in the program, they're outside. Why? Exactly what you said, tj. They're having success. They don't trust the format, they have their own private coaches, they have a history of success, and so I don't know if the Federation is allowing them to. I don't know what, but it's happening, and I think the same thing is happening right now in America. You're having kids, they're having success, outside of the program and I think the Federation should support them, should help them. I mean, if they're getting their butt kicked and they're not performing, you pull back the funding. But if they're doing good, you reward them or you assist them. If you truly believe them, you assist them.
Speaker 3So maybe this means it.
Speaker 2So the Olympic Committee has has historically and I'll go down to something like, which will make sense for you, for all of us and especially you guys when you watch an nba team and you look at their uniforms, are they all the same? Yeah, on a team, one particular team yeah, they are they all wear the same thing when you look at their sneakers, are they all the same? Maybe no, no, and you know why they figured out that only college yeah, the athletes realize that they need to have their performance enhancing equipment.
Speaker 2Well, guess what? Performance enhancing starts with training. It's the most important part of performance enhancing. You don't change the thing that brought them to the table, because that's the thing that enhances their performance. Nothing is more important than where you train, how you train and who you train with. That's where true performance starts.
Speaker 2So why would you, unless you have a better system, right, and and I'm living this at this moment, right? So it's kind of personal where I'm having to think about this thing and you know, um, you put yourself in the best training environment you can with the best coach. So if you feel you have the best coach and it's an individual sport, by the way, taekwondo, with the exception that you train with other people for your personal training you find the best training situation with the best training partners you can. If you have it and you think where you're going doesn't have as much or not the right partner, whatever, then you stay where you're at. And I'm living this right now again in my life with my son, right, because he's in a great training facility with a great training partner, but he'd been offered a level up with, you know a level up of every player on the field, and so now it's a tough choice.
Speaker 3Different because you got teams.
Speaker 2You got teams, you know and that is it is different, but different in a different way. In other words and this you'll, you'll understand this. Uh, both of you'll understand this. It's different, but not different. Because when you train, you and I and all of us two things mattered to us. Number one, the coach. Number two, the most immediate thing, was the training partner. If you had a great coach but you didn't have anybody to fight with, somebody to train with I had Kevin padilla, I had mark williams, I had, later years, sean burke, these guys like this. But now, if I didn't, if I didn't have that and I, let's say, I went to the olympic training center at that time who would I have? I would have had you. Maybe, and you're, you know, 50 pounds lighter than me. That that doesn't enhance my training.
Speaker 3But that's where I was going to go with that. Honestly, see, that's a good point, because there's a myth that you have to have somebody like the exact same as you, because, for example, what weight was Kevin Padilla? What?
Speaker 4weight was Mark Williams. Yeah, feather, yeah.
Speaker 3Featherweight and you were a middleweight and those were great training partners for you. Yeah, sometimes you get Better. Yeah, sometimes you might have some people need a heavier, some people need a lighter, some people just need someone that works like I'm going to say something on a personal level and TJ, you know this, we had a lot of people in our room that nobody ever knew, but they were good training partners. They were. You knew if you needed endurance, they were there. You knew if you needed a back, you need a speed guy, you need a, you need someone to scrap with. We always had somebody and even now I feel like we have certain guys that I I got a big guy, I got a featherweight, I got a lightweight, I got a middleweight. I got all these people. They probably won't be world champions, they won't be pan-american champions, but put them in the gym. These suckers can fight, these guys can fight and they know how to work with your people.
Speaker 4So, yeah, yeah, I, I go, I go back and forth about that. I think I've had, like I said I've. I've had some really good training rooms, even in virginia, when a lot of ivory coast guys were coming over and she's had were coming over. I was always in an intense training room and I was actually one of the athletes that I switched at one point to get to an intense training room to get that shock and that injection back. So I can understand both sides. I think that part's a myth. I don't think we're at that stage anymore. I think you again. I go back to how about, if it's working, let's start there first, like we don't go? Just because it's working doesn't mean let's move. How about you ask the question of what do you need? How about that question?
Speaker 2What do you feel you need? That's historically what the question was. That was always asked, and the question is what do you need to be successful? What can I do to enhance your ability to be successful and if you don't start with that question yeah.
Speaker 4Yeah, no, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2If you don't start with that question. The only reason not to start with that question is if it's clear that the athlete you're working with has no clue. Either they're too young or the coach doesn't understand, and yet you just are. They're lightning in a bottle. They have, they've been successful just because they have ability and talent. Right, then you have a different conversation. It's like what are you doing? Well, you know, I'm running up the mountain three times a day well, that has nothing to do with your success.
Speaker 2Right, so you know. But if you do have athletes who are in good programs, with good coaches, with historical success, what are you doing? Why are you trying to undo what?
Speaker 1are you?
Speaker 2why are you trying to undo his success you? Know and the list of athletes who have changed, who have tried and failed.
Speaker 3Because of that is very long right but you know what the another model is like. I mean again, first, when I first went to brazil they get. I took a pad of paper. I went to national championships. I sat down almost every head of table right next to referees, people looking at me didn't speak the language and I was just watching fighters and I'd be like, oh, match 115, what's his number?
Speaker 3And I would go back and I'm like, hey, we need to look at these guys. And then we didn't have money to bring them to all the place, but we could introduce ourselves, find out where they live, find out what state they're from and hook them up with a coach over there and let's see if we can kind of get them. And that's another thing. I mean, you guys, if we see some tall, fast, rocket, like you said young, and we say, man, you live in North Carolina, hang out with, go see Coach. Oh, you live in Virginia, go see this coach, wherever it is, we should be able to hook them up with somebody and maybe, if they get good enough, you know, you bring them out.
Speaker 1But anyway, you know I would be called a network.
Speaker 3Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But TJ, I mean, I know it's kind of hard because I know we don't know all the names Anybody kind of fast forwarding? Anybody that you're looking forward to seeing fight in the Grand Prix Challenge?
Speaker 4I think overall for me, to be honest with you, I think that all the brackets are pretty exciting. It's like a good mix of people. I don't really have any, I'm not sure the energy or level that's going to go into this tournament. I hope it's high-paced, I hope it's big action, I hope it's and for me, I hope it's all the matchups that everybody don't want to slash, do want to see Like. I want it to be one of those tournaments. I miss those days. I know it'll still be a ranking and it still falls in order, but I want it to be since it does. It's like the building year. It's the get us to the next step, like let's. I hope it's lightning. You know what I mean. I hope it sparks you know.
Speaker 3You know what's funny. I was thinking like, for example, I want to see how some of the old school guys do, like the old school guys, the past Olympians, like, for example, vito from in 58, he won Olympic medal. He got injured at the last Olympics and now he's back. He looked really good in Europe. I'm going to see how he does in the 58. I think 68 is always a. It's a. It's a blow up crapshoot. There's a bunch of Russians in there.
Speaker 3We have a lot of people that moved up in categories. So I think it'll be interesting. Of course, I want to see my young boy go, michael, I want to see you and him, you know, match up with some, probably some pretty difficult people, but it's part of the process. 80, I told you, I want to see these young. I want to see Victor fight with some of these up and coming 80 guys, heavyweights I don't really know too much. I hope the energy is high, but it'll be interesting to see if everyone ramps it up, knowing what you said, knowing that it counts. But it doesn't count. It's not like the real Grand Prix where it's 40 points and it's in the Olympic year. It's a Grand Prix challenge. They're going to reset anyway next year.
Speaker 4I hope they take it as one of those. I hope that everyone showed up. Like it's a tough tournament. It's probably the best field you're going to get on this side of the world right now, you know yeah.
Speaker 3You know yeah.
Speaker 4If I'm being, if we're being honest like this is the best the field you're going to get on this side.
Speaker 3For sure. But like, for example, I don't think other countries are like this. But you know, tj, we looked at some of the American list and we got five people to get in each in each weight category. We have some people like that they haven't done anything anywhere and they're going to this grand prix challenge. I mean, it could be some, it could be some lights out. I mean because some of these other countries won't know right, they just see american.
Speaker 4It might be a little rough for some of these cats.
Speaker 3It might be a little rude awakening.
Speaker 4You know we're gonna see but I'm, I hope it's good. What about you? Anybody that's like you said? I know you said, uh, you know michael was standout stuff, but uh, anyone in particular?
Speaker 3I want to see all the Olympic medalists. I want to see how they come, because historically, you know, young people come out. I mean that's the bullseye. I want to beat that guy. I mean it's almost like a what do you call it a moral victory. I want to see if I can take out an Olympian, you know, take out an Olympic champion. So I think it's going to be really interesting to see how they are they ramped up to move forward or are they just kind of like, uh, living in the past?
Speaker 4it's gonna be tough for them. Well, I think this is the biggest one, if I'm not gonna say this is probably the biggest tournament that I've like that's been in my country or our country since I've started taekwondo and like like for me, for me, for me, that I could have possibly got to and watched and everything as far as like this new modern game anyways, with with electronics and everything I'm a little happy.
Speaker 3I was thinking about, if I'm not mistaken, I think 11 or 12. We have 11 or 12 peak athletes coming from our programs and that's from countries like Canada, Haiti, from Puerto Rico, from the United States. Where does, oh my gosh, where does elsan fight for not?
Speaker 3got me not um I was about to say go bone. I mean I think it's gonna be interesting to see our you know, our kids. I mean we have some young ones that are raw and we have some old ones that are trying to see if they can still do it. So I'm excited for them. You know, I'm excited for our you know I'm excited for our kids when is the event?
Speaker 2When is it?
Speaker 4Every week, every week.
Speaker 1Well, because it's between, like you know, I have like it's on, so what?
Speaker 2I do is I have like a list of priorities and then I prioritize rather things and I put them in the same category. So like, for example, learning Korean, it's in like the same category as like reading Buddhism. And then I have doing Taekwondo. That's, like you know, in the same category as being successful in life, and then I have getting a nap and watching Olympic style Taekwondo same category. So on any particular day, you know, those two things battle for my time. So there's no guarantee that even if I were to come, that A I wouldn't nap, instead B, I wouldn't come to the event itself and nap.
Speaker 4But if I did come, I think you got to force yourself to sit in the stands. I challenge you to sit in the stands for an entire day and watch every. I will provide.
Speaker 2It's like watching a rom-com. Can you get espresso in North Carolina?
Speaker 4Watch the day, though, of course I'll bring it Espresso machine All right.
Speaker 2You bring an espresso machine, and it's got to be right near me. And then I'm bringing female, not male, because I won't need male bodyguards. I'm bringing female ninjas that I've trained at my school. That will sit on either side of me and if anybody tries to come towards me that way, they're going to put their hands up and prevent people from approaching me, like I was the president of Gabon. Saturday will be good. I don't want to interact with anyone. I don't want anybody.
Speaker 3I think that's six days. No, six days.
Speaker 4First day, friday 58 and 80 are Saturday. Yeah, but I think that's six. First day is no. Six days is first day. Yeah, friday, 58 and 80.
Speaker 358 and 80 are Saturday. Yeah, but listen, they're all good because so if you could watch one.
Speaker 2What would you if you what's?
Speaker 1the best, I'm going on.
Speaker 2Friday. What's more than a 50-50 chance I won't fall asleep if I come watch it.
Speaker 3Friday or Saturday Friday, I think Friday first, because that's men 68, women 57. Man men. We got three divisions that are good. That's what I'm saying. Friday Saturday, yeah, friday Saturday, I call Friday Saturday. Come on, young, is it going to be like?
Speaker 2taekwondo or legs.
Speaker 3Is it this Saturday? No man.
Speaker 2What Saturday?
Speaker 4This Saturday.
Speaker 2Two Saturdays 13, 14, no man, what's that? Two saturdays 13 14 15. All right hold on hold.
Speaker 3On hold on 13 14, 15, let me check something. Hold on, hey, me and me and me and coach tj will buy you a ticket a ticket, oh no, a plane ticket or just a ticket a ticket, no, a ticket to the thing you buy your plane ticket a plane ticket.
Speaker 2You. You had me at plane ticket. Okay, okay a plane ticket, we'll do it. No, I don't need a plane ticket. You guys will buy me. Economy, I don't travel economy. Oh guys, I don't travel economy. I love you guys, but you know me, I don't travel economy.
Speaker 3You're like bougie man.
Speaker 2Dude, hey, hold on, I got it all the time.
Speaker 3You saw bougie. Hey, you should have got bougie on that damn haircut you got.
Speaker 2Dude, did you see this thing? By the way, this was talk to your Brazilian friends. Look at this thing. No, don't be First of all you know, this is like.
Speaker 3Let me see the other side, other side oh the other. Why would you get in a chair?
Speaker 4I have no idea you know who this happened to? No, this happened to me.
Speaker 2You forgot this happened to me before. I can't remember who did it, but there is a picture of somebody did that to the side of my head with a razor. It was after your thing, and I have hair like this, like this, but yeah, it wasn't good. I think I'm actually going to be in that area for this soccer thing and so we're going for the MLS Next Cup, which hopefully my son's team will qualify for, and I think it's that same area of time. So let me see if I can figure out where?
Speaker 3where is it? Where's the next cup? Well, first of all, I don't have many rules in life, but one rule.
Speaker 2Tennessee Tennessee.
Speaker 3I know, yeah, but you're going to be, you're going to be busy with the soccer stuff. No, no, no.
Speaker 2They only play one. We play one event a day. Far is tennessee from north carolina maybe I should get a map.
Speaker 4I think we did this before. How long did we say I don't know, I don't remember. I think we said it last week. I don't remember how many hours.
Speaker 3It's a good little drive okay, back to my rule don't get in a barber seat when a when a dude don't speak the same language as you facts.
Speaker 2What? Oh, that's, that's true. That is true. I don't know what I was thinking I should have left. I have a good friend of mine who cuts my hair, but he was busy out of town and I have like a conflict oh my god, it's 9 hours yeah it's a drive.
Speaker 4I told you what no, no a drive is different than this.
Speaker 2This is like 600 miles.
Speaker 3That's a plane it's a different state. What do you expect?
Speaker 2I mean, come on holy look at the I. Oh what the what is this?
Speaker 1I think you got to go watch.
Speaker 3What is this? You would like it? Yeah, I think you got to go watch.
Speaker 2No, but look at this. Look at I think you got to go watch. I didn't even know where North Carolina was. All right, so Tennessee is not near an ocean.
Speaker 3News to me. And then look Mr Scholar here. Doesn't know where Tennessee is.
Speaker 2I have to go through Ohio. No, Charlotte, North Carolina. What is Knoxville? Oh, I like Knoxville. And what is this?
Speaker 4You are not driving nine hours. This is such a waste of film and camera time. You are not driving nine hours.
Speaker 2This is you are like this is such a waste of film two months before then I'm going to be in fresno.
Speaker 3He's like oh, fresno is like two and a half hours, three hours, no, it's too far. Now he's talking about driving nine hours.
Speaker 2No, I'm not talking about. No, no, I'm not talking about. I'm telling you right, you, right now, unequivocally, if I come, do they have an airport where you are? I mean like a real airport, not one of these like Cessna airports.
Speaker 4Yeah, we got an airport, what's the name of the airport. Charlotte CLT Hold on.
Speaker 2I got to. I'll put you on mute. I got to talk to you. We always answer phone calls. Oh my.
Speaker 4God this guy.
Speaker 3Oh my God, look at that, look at that. Look at that, look at that he looks like Moles Eric Curry from the Three Stooges. You guys ever remember that that boy got a bowl haircut?
Speaker 4Oh boy, oh, poor guy, poor guy. But I think it'll be good, I think it'll be good, I think it'll be good, I think it'll be good.
Speaker 3There's going to be some really good matches. There really are. I mean, I think I'm hoping that we get a couple of American medals. To be honest with you, I think that would be really great for the country.
Speaker 2That was just my wife calling me to tell me she loves me.
Speaker 3Oh, that's so nice.
Speaker 2Actually, she was calling to see if I picked up my kids. But go ahead, I'll pretend like it was love hey, your kids don't drive oh, don't get me started.
Speaker 2The this, this generation, these are I'm uber dad. Uber usually means super. In this case it doesn't mean super, it means literally uber. I'm lift dad. Like I told, I yelled at my son for a while because I'm like you should be driving now. His, my daughter's gonna be driving before him, but you know I'm gonna start. I'm gonna give him a bus card. He can start taking the bus. I yelled at my son for a while because I'm like you should be driving now. My daughter is going to be driving before him, but you know I'm going to start.
Speaker 3I'm going to give him a bus card. He can start taking the bus. Can he drive, though? No, can he actually drive?
Speaker 2No, no, no, no. He didn't even pass the permit test. He took it twice and failed. Like the test, the written test no-transcript. Charlotte, my son's teammate, is going to be playing for the Charlotte MLS Academy there and then let me see.
Speaker 3You got tickets to the PGA though.
Speaker 4I used to have tickets.
Speaker 3It was cool.
Speaker 4The first year. The first year I got here, I had a lot of tickets to the games for the Charlotte FC.
Identifying True Talent vs. Money Grabs
Speaker 2It was pretty cool though.
Speaker 4A good nice stadium Games were always. The weather was cool for the games, sometimes a little cold, but like was. It was a good environment, though, and a lot. The fans love it too. Everybody like. They appreciate the game, and you know they're pushing it down for everyone standing up and they start yelling and cheering. So it was definitely fun, though definitely definitely fun. If you're in town doing one of those, we should go watch one of those.
Speaker 2I'd be down well, I'll try to see. I mean, I gotta see what a ticket would cost from, uh, mumfers re, burgo or old tennessee to murphy's borough, man murphy's borough, and I'm sure what's the, what's the?
Speaker 1what's it? What's it? Murphy's borough, yeah, what are you?
Speaker 2doing there soccer it's got big soccer complex and it's uh, and they're a tennessee tennessee. What does it have to? What's the other thing thing? What's the big city in Tennessee?
Speaker 3Nashville.
Speaker 2Nashville. There's going to be an airport in Nashville. Maybe I'll come, but by the way, there's good food. I had great food in Nashville.
Speaker 4I went to the Rainbow Skull Room.
Speaker 2Unbelievable, unbelievable.
Speaker 4We were supposed to stop there for a little bit I drove from, was it Miami to?
Speaker 1Colorado.
Speaker 4Miami to Coloradoado. Yeah, miami to colorado. We drove. We stopped in nashville one night, but we were how many hours is it miami to colorado? It was forever and a day. I mean, I think it was like over 18, 19, 22. It was deep, it was really deep. I got to.
Speaker 2I got to a place where I'm willing to drive to LA, because I usually wouldn't even do that. But I actually learned to enjoy Coach Moreno when I made that drive. It was an unfortunate situation, but we had a great time. That drive was a great drive.
Speaker 3I think any drive is good as long as you have time. You know what I'm saying Time and good company. Podcast.
Speaker 4I couldn't drive for that long, though it's just like a monotonous task, just to sit there and not run people over.
Speaker 3But if you had someone that you talked to Like non-stop, it's actually not as bad.
Speaker 2TJ, if you were in a car with me you would get out the first rest stop, but if you were in a car with me For six hours, Moreno and I. We talked both ways. We talked the whole time.
Speaker 4How long was the drive, though?
Speaker 2Oh, six hours, that's not that bad.
Speaker 4I'm talking like 19, 20 plus like a drive drive.
Speaker 3Yeah, but not straight. What if you drive like eight hours and then you sleep.
Speaker 4Whatever, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.
Speaker 3I'm not saying I like it, but I got to hit up, jim, it's the same as an airport.
Speaker 2By the time you get to an airport, get on the plane and get off the plane, you know you're driving. I used to do the DC thing. Dc is a short flight from Jersey, but by the time you get to the airport, get to the terminal, get on the plane, get there.
Speaker 2It's less actually driving, so you know kind of you do that, yeah, but it just depends what you want to do. So I mean, you listen along the way, you might be able to stop at some walmart's or kmarts and find some more joker pursers for your walls, you know I know they have a lot of velvet they got a lot of velvet paintings. I know you're hiding it. I see you hiding it.
Speaker 4I'm not hiding anything. I'm going to send the letter. Can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2I just want to ask one question before we wrap up, at some point, on any of the walls on either side of your head are there dogs in velvet playing cards.
Speaker 1Is there a painting of dogs? Not in this room.
Speaker 4That's in the other room. Other room, okay, and Is there a painting of?
Speaker 2dogs, not in this room, that's in the other room, other room. Oh okay, and is there a velvet Jesus, a black velvet Jesus, anywhere in your house?
Speaker 3Other room. All right, good, I'm just joking. Other door, version one.
Speaker 2Well, oh, I don't go there. No, no, no.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2Take it easy, my friend Take it easy.
Speaker 1All right.
Speaker 2Well, we all right. Well, we're approaching an hour and I don't want to test the patience of everybody. It's been a great podcast and we keep touching on similar themes and at some point we're going to have to tackle the underlying supporting themes, which is what's our responsibility to develop talent and us being now self-anointed um visionaries for Taekwondo.
Speaker 3I got one last thing Go ahead. I got you know again. I think I want to just give a shout out to all our viewers, because I mean TJ, you know, you've heard it. The last couple of tournaments Again, we've had so many people come up to us privately and say I shouldn't watch, don't let. What is that, dr Brew?
Speaker 2I'm trying to get a sponsorship Dr Brew, dr Kombucha if you're listening, anybody know anybody there. I'm drinking your product, if you have. I drink Kombucha every day, dr Brew Brew Doctor. I don't care what I drink, but this one's pretty good. So if you're out there and you want to send me some kombucha, I will gladly accept your kombucha.
Speaker 3I tried this one time. I like it either.
Speaker 2In cafe con leche Go ahead.
Speaker 3No, no, I think it's just cool that people are watching. I think it's funny and ironic that people are like, hey, don't tell people, but I watch your stuff, or I shouldn't say this, but I heard you know it's funny. I don't know why I, but I watch your stuff, or I shouldn't say this, but I heard you know it's funny. Like I don't know why, I don't know why people think it should be taboo. I mean it's just, it's just entertainment, it's just information. I mean I was with somebody a couple of a week and a half ago and the guy was like hey, I took a picture with you and I won't say the other person, and you know we got in trouble. They said that that wasn't good, because you know these you want and this other person, you know you shouldn't take pictures with them. I'm like laughing to myself. And so when I hear people say, you know, hey, I'm a fan of the podcast, or hey, I listen to every single podcast, but I'm not supposed to tell people.
Speaker 4I'm like, why not?
Speaker 2But, it makes me want to do it more I get it.
Speaker 2The truth will be told and it will be told regularly, once a week, and you can like it or not like it and, as we've always said before, sorry, not sorry. That's on you. In other words, if the truth hurts then it's because it's true. In other words, people can say whatever they want to say. People can say whatever they say.
Speaker 2My dearest and bestest friend and fellow captain of the team that I was the overall captain of, lynette Love, I miss you. I love you. I hope whatever mental torment and pain you're going through it subsides. But just as a reminder, sorry, not sorry. And it reminds me, I read my chapter in the book about being captain of many teams, not just that particular Olympic team, and I tried to lead with a certain amount of leadership style, but it always started with leading from the front and being the example for others to follow. And Coach Moreno has been around when I train and I trained hard, I trained hard, worked hard and didn't accept anything less from my training partners. And Coach Moreno and I actually fought at practices and we trained practices and we kicked targets together.
Speaker 3I say this all the time.
Speaker 3I mean, herb, you're one of my best friends ever and stuff like that.
Speaker 3And just like all of us, we take the good with the bad, and I stand by you and I take the bullets for you when people say I don't let anybody say anything bad about you in front of me because you're my friend.
Speaker 3But I'll be honest with you. I mean we didn't always see eye to eye, nope on things, but I I and I'm saying this in in all honesty you always led by example and you, you never asked me to do anything that you wouldn't do, and so when I think back at those times, I mean they were tough, we trained hard, we had good days, we, we had good performances, bad performances, but I never thought of you as a bad captain like ever. Matter of fact, I admired because you were so strong, strong minded, and you took way more bullets for us than we took for you when it came to dealing with the coaches, because we didn't have good coaches and we didn't have good staffs and you would go and fight with those guys and we never had to hear from it. You'd come back to it and say we're going to train by ourself or trains at nine, not seven, 30.
Speaker 2And we were like well, you're too, you're too kind. But you and I and I'll give you a funny memory that we can end on, you and all of us you, I, hanwan and UI Han Wan and James Villasana would literally walk past the dojang, the little crap dojang we had to train at in Barcelona, and the coach would be there waiting for us because we came early, we wanted to be on time. So we'd come early and we'd walk past the dojang and Don Cooper would go. Where'd he go? Where'd he go? And we'd walk right past him to go next door to the little cafeteria which had the cafe con leche, cafe espresso, and we'd sit there and drink our coffee sitting at and we have pictures of us sitting there drinking coffee and the coach would be like where'd you go? What are you doing? Like, hey, we're early, we got time, baby, I know.
Speaker 3Let me finish with my story. I got a good story TJ. So we had this one coach that wanted us to do kick punch, kick punch, like Ronald's kick kick and punch, kick and punch, kick and punch.
Speaker 3And this was his method. And so one day we're running in the track and he wants us to do kick punch, kick punch around the track. And I'm like, I'm mad. And one of my other captains, I'm only like let's just do it, let's just do it, don't forget, forget it, just for training. I'm like shit, I'm like let's go. So me and him start going. Herb starts going in front of us. So you know, you go the straightaway and you make the turn, come all the way around. So we're like this and he keeps going. He keeps going off the track. We make the turn, he leaves the track, leaves the olympic training center, goes to the.
Speaker 3We don't see this guy. We finish the training, we go to breakfast. We don't see him at breakfast. We we get to like training at like three o'clock. I'm like we haven't seen him, like where'd you go? He's like I went to the park, he just kept going. He never came back. I was like this mother sucker got out of the training, didn't get in trouble. We didn't see him until the next practice. It was hilarious, true story.
Speaker 2It was one of my all-time favorite stories.
Speaker 2No, because it's true, we had told him it's like my last year. I'm not doing this anymore, I'm not putting up with anything. Leave me alone. If you don't leave me alone, I'm going to go. I'm going to train and win and fight and compete. I'm doing my best. Don't bother me, just leave me alone. Let me do what I do.
Speaker 2And you know, coach and I have talked about this all the time and I love Don Coon Park and Moreno and Coach Moreno. All these guys are in the stands. So instead of sitting in my seat, I would stand and Coach Park would go. Why you don't sit, I go? No, I'm good sir. So he's sitting and he's got my water bottle. I think he was drinking from it. So I'm looking out at these guys because they're coaching me from the stands, and he's like why are you not looking at me? Why are you looking at that? I'm like I need some help. I'm'm gonna look at my, my guys, but uh, you know, at some point which goes back to the premise of our story sometimes you got to know what's in your best interest and do it. And if that means staying at home, training with your, the guys who helped you get there, that's what we got to do. All right, I gotta go pick up my daughter. I love you both boys. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2And, as we've said, before on behalf of all three of us. Sorry, not sorry, see ya all right, man, I'll get it up.