Leadership and Transformative Adaptability in Manufacturing - A Deep Dive with Bradley Gaunt, Managing Director of Made for Trade

Are you ready to be inspired by an extraordinary journey of manufacturing leadership and adaptability? Join us in an enlightening conversation with Bradley Gaunt, the dynamic managing director of Made for Trade. Together, we explore the vast arena of leadership within the manufacturing industry, touching upon vision, team motivation, and even the challenging art of decision-making. Bradley's insights into his company's evolution offer a gripping narrative of how he and his brother transformed their business through determination, adaptability, and an unending pursuit of opportunities. 

Ever wondered about the trials and tribulations of running a family business? Bradley shares with us the story of Made for Trade, the family business he took over at 23. We follow his struggle with early obstacles, his triumphs in innovation, and the unique business pivot they executed during the COVID-19 pandemic. This engrossing tale showcases the potency of agility, adaptability, and a keen eye for opportunity, even in the face of adversity. We also explore the complexities of family dynamics in business, the critical role of understanding customer needs in product development, and the value of nurturing employee creativity.

But it doesn't stop there. We delve deeper into the mindset of leaders, discussing the impact and strategies to overcome imposter syndrome. We highlight the significance of supportive leadership, share inspiring anecdotes from the business and sporting world, and even sneak a peek into Made for Trade’s exciting future plans. To cap it all, we draw focus on the critical role of innovation in business success and growth. This conversation is an absolute must for anyone seeking to navigate the rewarding, yet challenging world of manufacturing and engineering. Tune in for an episode brimming with insightful experiences and practical wisdom!

Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298

Transcript

Mark Bracknall: 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Leaves podcast with me, mark Bracknell, my director of Theo James recruitment. Today we welcomed on Bradley Gaunt, the my director of made for trade, based in Billingham, the northeast of England. This was a real fascinating episode. Made for trade will be a 40 year old business very soon, which I think in itself is unbelievable accomplishment. It was a story of the business which was initially founded in the late 70s by Bradley's dad. He then took it on at the age of 23, which at the time was a business which was pretty much on its knees. Bradley, over time, took that to what is now a very highly successful business, working with his brother, who was a technical director itself, and we're talking detail about how that works.

Mark Bracknall: 0:49

It was a fascinating story and I think the overriding message for me was the importance of being agile, the importance of being able to pivot at times of need and always looking for opportunities. What I love about manufacturing, what I love about engineering, is that at the core of it is inventors, innovators, people with brilliant ideas, and I love this episode because exactly that. Bradley is someone who is clearly an engineer, who sees opportunities on the horizon and then tries to think how can we build this, how can we create it? And that was the overriding message in the story and perhaps, unfortunately, that is why some big businesses around there haven't been able to adapt to the changing marketplace we've seen over the last few years and have unfortunately seen many big businesses shut down. So it was again a message to be lean, be mean, be capable of making those decisions when you need to make those decisions as a business and always look for opportunities, which, as I say, was the overriding message of this episode.

Mark Bracknall: 1:51

So I hope you enjoy, sit back, have a coffee, watch, listen. As I always say, please, do me a favour. If you watch on YouTube, please subscribe to the channel. We are pushing more, more videos on there. If you listen on Spotify or Apple, please rate the show, subscribe it. It means the absolute will to me and it's set to be off in a tangent try and get more good people like Bradley as well. So thank you very much, hope you enjoy the episode. Excellent. So more welcome to Bradley Gorn Bradley, welcome on the show. Look forward to chatting to you. Hey, mark, nice to be here. Good man, excellent. So first question same question asked every person that comes on the show. What does it mean to you to be a leader?

Bradley Gaunt: 2:32

To be a leader.

Bradley Gaunt: 2:34

To be a leader, I think you've got to have a vision. I think that's pretty obvious. I think you've got to be passionate about the vision, but also inspiring others to be passionate with you. When you've got people working for you, you've got to look at their strengths. You've got to look at the weaknesses. You've got to make sure that you're getting the best out of them. So exposing them to the strengths but understanding where the weaknesses are, so you're not necessarily exposing them deliberately to their weaknesses.

Bradley Gaunt: 3:08

I guess inspiring people as well as a leader, that you're somebody that people tend to look towards, obviously for that leadership, so inspiring them to be on that journey, I think quite important. Obviously, people working there. You've got to encourage them to be the best they can be. Having given them the correct tools to do that, I think is really important. So, again, encouraging people and supporting them to get there, knowing how to motivate people, I suppose is important. Not everyone has the same motivation. The criteria it's not always. Usually it's financial underlying, but it's not always. So. Understanding what makes people tick, I think is important, I guess, ultimately being someone that people can follow and work with to achieve, obviously, the vision that is set out.

Bradley Gaunt: 4:21

That includes there's times where you've got always faced with all the information, all the facts. I'm very data driven, so I like to understand what the lay of the land as best I can before making decisions. But ultimately sometimes there isn't all that information there and someone's got to make that decision, they've got to carry the can, they've got to go with it and I guess as a leader that's that job. Sometimes you've got to make a decision, you've got to run with it. But I guess on that flip side as well, you've got to be strong enough to understand that getting down that path you might find that, because you might not have had all the information at the beginning, you might find halfway along that that isn't the right decision. And you've got to be strong enough and you've got to not have the ego, I guess, to turn back and then go down a different path.

Bradley Gaunt: 5:18

And that's sometimes a costly, time consuming experience we've been ourselves. But sometimes that's the right thing to do. I guess probably the only other thing is that you've got to listen to what others have to say. It's very easy at the top of the tree to just direct and tell people what to do. But listening to their views and not having such an ego that you think, well, my way is the only way. There are other ways to do things and sometimes, a lot of times, people come up with a better solution. Or it may be a combination of ideas and it's not just a case of my way or the highway. So, again, listening to what people have to say, making them feel part of a team to get to where we want to be.

Mark Bracknall: 6:14

So much in that and such a detailed answer and so much unpack. I'd be keen to chat here about. You mentioned about vision and look, we'll probably go up down everywhere how the business started, sort of as we go on. But I resonate with pretty much all that and when I heard the word vision, I thought about where we are now as a business in terms of I think we have got a vision, but I don't think we had a vision for the first few years, because most people don't really start a business with this perfect plan. It all goes to plan. You almost find your way, was that? You know, we'll go back in a bit to how you start the business. But when did you think you had a good enough vision that other people could follow that vision and buy into it, would you say?

Bradley Gaunt: 7:03

It is a chicken and egg situation, you know, you said, you know we talk about where we've come from with the business and it is relevant. You know I started the business when I was 23. Well, I didn't start the business, I took over, so it was a family business. And you know, coming in and fresh out of university and I'm coming in to a team of people that they're looking at this kid essentially, and you know you're trying to understand and learn your way through and at that stage you know the vision of where, where's the business going. You know it's not even on the horizon, it's just a case of, you know, we need to just try and settle this ship and move it into a more positive direction, which, you know we can talk about it a bit, but you know, at that stage the vision wasn't even on the horizon, it was just about getting to the next day, the next week.

Bradley Gaunt: 8:05

I guess the true vision came when, you know, we myself, my brother at the time who now works for us as a technical director we we had this idea about coming up with a product the Cornish Ruflantan which is, I'd like to think, market leading product now, but at the time we were sort of searching for something that could complement what we already did as a business with the manufacturing side, and we had fitting teams for conservatory, so it did fit. And it was at that point when we developed that and we thought, yeah, hang on, you know, we've got something here. We're actually we're, we're trading new grounds and and there was belief that, you know, we can maybe do things that not everyone else can in terms of product development, because about both of our backgrounds. So I guess, to answer your question in a long rounded way, probably around 2015 was when the vision really came to light and we, you know, were able to to go from there.

Mark Bracknall: 9:18

Yeah, love that. And so I like to ask you about that in terms of the business side, because, like you say, you took it was your father's business, wasn't it for? Was it nice? Yeah, and he started it. Was it in the 80s really? When, when, the when did the business first start?

Bradley Gaunt: 9:32

So he created the company back in 1979 but we didn't we didn't register as Angkor UK, which is the limited company, by the way, until 1983. So actually our 40th year this year, it just. But yeah, so it was a family business from from back in the well late 70s, early 80s.

Mark Bracknall: 9:54

Yeah, and amazingly, I'd say, a 40-year business. You know how many of those nowadays not not many, so that's brilliant, was it? Was it always the the plan for you to go into the business, or how did that go about?

Bradley Gaunt: 10:06

No, not at all. No, it was never the plan. So it was always a case. My dad wanted, you know, his his idea was that I needed to find my own way, and it was he he wanted. Well, my mom was well, they wanted to give us, myself and my brother and my sister, they wanted to give us the tools to, you know, to to do what we needed, to what we would like to have done in life. And I followed a path into engineering. So I did a degree in engineering, my brother did a degree in engineering as well, and I worked as an engineer for a couple of years. I went to the university, I went.

Bradley Gaunt: 10:50

After that, I went traveling for a bit then, as you do, and then came back a couple of years trying to settle down as an engineer.

Bradley Gaunt: 10:56

And then it was a situation where there was my dad had sort of semi-retired back in the early 2000s, early retirement, and he came to me and I was still very young at the time and I wanted to sort of I wanted to travel again and the job I was in it wasn't really where I wanted to ultimately to be and I booked to go traveling and that fell through. I'd taken a bit of time out from that job and my dad said, look, you know, sorry, and then the traveling sort of fell through. So it was. My dad came to me and he's like, look, the business isn't doing so well, I'm not really interested in taking it forward. I've done my stint. So ultimately you can have a go and see how far we get, and there's nothing lost if it doesn't work out, or you can continue along your own path. And I thought, well, let's give it up, see what happens, and yeah, and then here we are.

Mark Bracknall: 12:12

Amazing, isn't it? Did you feel? I mean, obviously it sounds like he didn't intentionally, he didn't put any pressure on you, but I imagine there was inside him who still really, really, really wants to do well, because obviously he built that. Did you feel the pressure, or not at all?

Bradley Gaunt: 12:27

No, I mean, it was quite literally. You know, the business really was in a bad place back then. You know, we were hemorrhaging a lot of money and I think my dad had had guarantees in place at the bank and it was with the family home and it was a case where he was like, look, I'm gonna take these guarantees away because I don't want this hanging over me. I'm not involved in the business day today and you know, if I take them away, the business will go to the wall. But you know, if you want, you know we'll and with his support as well, we will, you know, leave them in place and we'll give it a bit of time and see how we get on. And so there was no pressure and it was quite. You know, it was once. It was an easy decision.

Bradley Gaunt: 13:18

But I guess at the time you know, 23 years old I was I'd had this idea of going traveling again. That had fallen through. So I was like, well, what do we do now? Didn't have a lot of options. So I was like, well, this sounds like it could be, you know, something to pay the bills for a bit of time and we'll see how far it goes. And that's essentially how it started, but yeah, there was no pressure, there was no pressure.

Mark Bracknall: 13:45

So obvious question and this wouldn't be an overnight thing but how does a relatively inexperienced 23 year old turn a business around to over time? Now be where you are today. I know that was a long, must have been a long game, but what was the first things you put in place to start getting on the right trajectory, would you say?

Bradley Gaunt: 14:04

So it was really quite difficult. You know I press on with this youth and it is important because you know there's people that had been in the business at that time, you know, for 20 years and you know they'd done the same job day and day out. And then these young kids coming along, who is essentially put in charge? I mean, I've got to be clear, like when I did join the business, I didn't just jump in with both feet and start telling people what to do, because the way I understood it, the way I believed, was like how can I tell people what to do if I can't do their job? So there was a process of me learning, you know, and shadowing and just running with it. You know how the business was running at that time. So, yeah, I just it was a slow approach, but ultimately I came into the business and it was, it was quite inefficient. We were, we had a factory manufacturing PVC windows and doors, conservatories, and there was a lot of machinery, for example, that needed replacing and we had all these fixed costs and these machines that were needing a lot of maintenance, probably replacing. So what we decided to do, which was quite radical, was to start manufacturing all of the PVC side and the glass as well, and buy in those products which gave us the ability. I mean, that wasn't an easy journey, by the way, that was quite hard. And then you've got redundancies and all the rest of it, which is never nice, but it was the decision that we believed was the right one because otherwise the business wasn't sustainable in any shape or form or a hemorrhage, and a lot of money, like I say, you've got these fixed costs going through quite a few times of the year which you had to find the money to for, I mean, machinery that was gonna need replacing, it wasn't reliable. So this was the decision we chose and we bought in the products, like I said, and it was essentially the same products that we were manufacturing ourselves, which is good from a remedial point of view. So, like we'd fitted a lot of the products into the area and if there was any issues we could get hold of the same product to get in and fix it.

Bradley Gaunt: 16:38

Just to give you a bit of clarity, back then we just manufactured, installed PVC products into a 30-bar radius of where we are on T side. So we weren't really set up for trade, even though the name now suggests made for trade that we are. But that's where made for trade was founded. So we realized, by buying these products in, it gave us an uncapped capacity to push a trade counter. Up until that point it was a case of if we had a bump, a week of domestic sales, they would soak up all the capacity in the factory. So whatever was left was like we've got a little bit for trade, so we would sell what we could in a small way. But by having the capacity now we were able to really concentrate and we created a trade side and we wanted to differentiate it from the company that we were the domestic company, which is Angkor. So we founded a company, we created a trading net and made for trade. We set up a trade counter and we pushed on with that side and with the fabrication space that we now had.

Bradley Gaunt: 17:53

Because we weren't doing windows and doors anymore and glass, we pushed on with a conservatory roof business. So we were doing a couple of domestic conservatories for ourselves and we were thinking, well, if we can get another one, another, two, that's good money at that level. So we pushed on with that. We pushed on with the selling PVC windows and glass and that started to work pretty well. We certainly weren't out of the woods at that point. We were still losing money Around 2010, 2011.

Bradley Gaunt: 18:28

So that was back in 2005. So by 2011, 2010, we looked at what else we could add and we decided that an aluminium by-fold was something that would fit with what we did, seemed to be up and coming at the time and we had some space to be able to put machines in for it. So we invested in CNC and we double used the SOF from the conservatory fabrication side and we had this little shed and it was literally big enough for the CNC and not much else, and we started fabricating aluminium by-folds, which we were completely new into the aluminium market. We hadn't been into it before. So it was a steep learning curve and what we soon found is that most of the business was in the south. So logistically it became quite a challenge because we had a van which would strap a door to on the side and you can't efficiently go down south with a door strapped on the side and make any money unless you're charging 600 quid before delivery. So we had to. Somehow. It was a case of we just got to go for this. We'll set it up, we're gonna take a hit earlier on, but we'll create these routes into the south of England and get more business by going out with a price that is as keen as we could, and that happened. So we started to sell more, we started to put more doors on the van, then we needed two vans and then we needed a wagon and by alongside this, we had to move factories a couple of times to expand the fabrication side because we were just outstripping it each year and then, like I alluded to, before 2015,.

Bradley Gaunt: 20:24

There's an interesting story about how we got to Atlanta actually, but if you want, we can talk about that. But ultimately we started developing this lantern and it was my brother, who's working in Italy at the time as a chassis designer, so he worked with, like the Fiat Group, so Ferrari and all that sort of concept stuff for those guys, and it was me and him that had to. We had no one else in the business. That was just Ash and I developing this lantern between us and we got that done I think 18 months from concept to launch, which was looking back. I'm not sure I could have done that now and then it went from there. So, like we've added since then we've added our own bifold door, which is doing really well for us, and we've got other products on the horizon as well New flat glass product that we're launching well imminently. So we've shown that a few shows and, yeah, that's where we are. So that's the journey.

Mark Bracknall: 21:33

It sounds like you mentioned 2015, the lantern, and obviously the vision Was the lantern. The tipping point, would you say, was that the time where you thought this is it. We can be a yeah.

Bradley Gaunt: 21:45

Yeah, because up until that point, we're fabricating third party products. Yeah, and the time between when I said we started that trade out about 2010 to 2011 and 2015,. The bifold growth gave us the funds to be able to develop the lantern and up until that point, we didn't have it was it's one of those. We didn't have the funds or the resources to do anything apart from just trying to keep the business afloat. So it was that journey that took us into the lantern.

Mark Bracknall: 22:28

Which I think is a fascinating story anyway, because if you think about what we've just been through, companies have had to completely pivot over COVID, where some people literally had to completely change their product to stay alive. It was a little bit different for you, you're more of a creative mind, but it proves, isn't it, that you should never just accept the product you have. You've always got to be looking for other avenues and other opportunities. Was that? Was it planned for a long time that this is an opportunity, or do you just see a niche and thought like we can create something here then?

Bradley Gaunt: 23:06

I'll tell you the story. Yeah, I mean, it's maybe a little political actually, but I'll try to sort of leave names out. But, like I said, we were fabricating conservatory roofs for ourselves and what happened was the supplier of the third party company that supplied the conservatory roofs was acquired by one of the other manufacturers of conservatory roofs in the market at that time and it meant that during that transition phase we couldn't get supply of material and it was just a nightmare. There were a number of weeks where we just couldn't get products. So that led us to talking to one of the more trade-oriented systems houses. So the product that we were fabricating was probably a bit too aluminum-heavy, which was great in terms of from a selling point of view and Mr and Mrs Jones wanting sort of the perceived best thing on the market. But from a cost point it was high. So we couldn't compete on that trade level. So we started talking to this trade company and they set us up and that went really well for a number of years.

Bradley Gaunt: 24:29

That company, around 2007, I reckon 2008, when we sort of started hitting bad times, that company started to struggle and there was another company which did a competitor roof in the market that wanted, I guess, to push this company we were dealing with a little bit harder and push them out of business, essentially. So they came into us and they gave us this deal that we believed was well it was, it was a good deal, and we went with that thinking that the right-hand was on the wall with the current supplier and what we our business sort of mentality has always been supplying the best product, the best service or the best price. So we, like we did with the buyfalls we were going out at prices that people couldn't ignore, always been a market disruptor and we grew a good business generator with the conservatory roofs. And then the sales director of this company who won't mention his name, but he thought it was a good idea to try and recoup some of the business that they'd given away in the initial by trying to slap an 18% price increase in. Now. That is as difficult bill to swallow at the best of times when everyone else is taking it, but when you're the only one taking it it really leaves a sour taste in your mouth. So we really were over a barrel with this and we had to take this price increase.

Bradley Gaunt: 26:10

So it was after that I felt actually probably would imagine a little aggrieved about the situation. So I was like I said to Ash. I was like Ash, we could do a conservatory roof. I'm sure we could do it, we've got the skills. Why don't we look at it? And we took the roof that we were fabricating as a baseline and we did some structural analysis on for the rafters for example. We did some finite element analysis on it to establish the strength of this profile, this bar, and we did another design where we took the rafter and we were able to and I think the numbers that gave me now, but I think it was something like 30% lighter but 25% stiffer. So it meant you could get away with, obviously, a lot less as a. You know. The cost of this product could then be reduced even further than 30% because it's 25% stiffer. And we also came up with another couple of little features, like fixing these rafters in from the outside of the roof, which no one else was doing. It was all fixed for the inside. So we're trying to think at this time around the fitting and making it easy for the fitter but also from a cost point of view.

Bradley Gaunt: 27:33

So we went to see a company that we'd been dealing with for a lot of years about just. It was actually just. It was an annual business meeting, I guess, and it was at that meeting I spoke to the CEO of this company, you know, I presented me and I presented what we'd done. We showed him this, this example of the rafter and the fixing mechanism, and we said look, you know, this is the sort of thing that we're coming up with.

Bradley Gaunt: 28:01

And this guy I mean I don't know whether he'd be kicking himself now, but he was he said, oh, that's very nice, but come back when you've got something more tangible, when you've got a full design. So like, all right, okay, because we needed investment, because we didn't have the cash to do this ourselves. So he sent us on our way, and it was that that I said to Ash. I said, right, okay, why don't we just do a lantern? Because it's really much more simple than a conservatory. We'll do that in six months and then we'll get back on with the conservatory Because it's very similar. Well, it's not very similar, it is different, but there is a lot of synergy between the two products. You know, it's rafters and hips and ridges. So it was at that point we started on the lantern and we developed that and then we forgot all about conservatories after that.

Mark Bracknall: 28:53

Amazing, isn't it? Because not luck, is it? Obviously it's fortune, it's doing the right things. And then season an opportunity that you know some people would have just given up, wouldn't they?

Bradley Gaunt: 29:06

Yeah, I guess so, but you know we are that way inclined. In terms of engineering, you know the product development, that's what we love, and you know there's always ways to different ways to skin a cat, and in terms of design, there's different ways to get to the end goal. Some are better than others, and you know so. It was always going to be a case of using those skills, I guess. Ultimately.

Mark Bracknall: 29:33

Apologies for interrupting this podcast for a very quick 30 second picture my business, theo James. I'm a specialist in manufacturing and engineering recruitment search firm based in Seam in the North East. If you're looking for any staff or new opportunity yourself from a semi-skilled level, write the way up to C-suite executive and please get in touch. We have a specialist consultant in each discipline ready to help. I'm extremely proud of what we've built over the years and I'd love to extend that service out to you. Thank you, enjoy the podcast.

Mark Bracknall: 30:05

I had someone on podcast yesterday was talking about this and he was saying exactly that. Well, he basically saying that the problems are manufacturing. There are so many problems manufacturing and just trying to keep building businesses afloat is hard enough and it's stopping people like yourself who are natural innovators inventors. You know all these people know we're known in the UK for producing and manufacturing and inventing so many amazing things. But because there's so many challenges right now, it's stifling people's creativity because you know, you know you at that time might not have had all those pressure but you created something which is brilliant and I don't think we're seeing that quite as much now because people have got the head in stuff which they've got to just try and deal with to keep the business afloat. It's a big challenge, isn't it?

Bradley Gaunt: 30:52

It is. It is a very big challenge, but there's a lot of companies out there, not just in the fenestration industry but, you know, as a industry as a whole, and the people who generally run the businesses aren't you know. They're very good at what they do, obviously, but they're not necessarily technical and I do think that you know we've been, we are slightly unique in that regard that we have, I guess, engineering running through the blood at the top level which helps drive that side of things, because, like you say, it's easy. It would be easy just to sit back and fabricate third party systems, or even, you know, come to engineering or the product and just copy, take a Me Too product and change it slightly and push that out, but ultimately it's the same thing. So, you know, I think there is. That's what. That's certainly what I find exciting about solving these problems differently to what has gone before.

Mark Bracknall: 31:56

What's it like working with your brother, family and business? Not sure, I'm allowed to say on here it's a maiden podcast. It's different, isn't it?

Bradley Gaunt: 32:07

Yeah, it's easy. I mean, no, we get on, we get on work, we work really well together. You know we hang out outside of work as well, but obviously he's the older brother, so like four years difference, the hierarchy. When you're growing up, you know the banter that you have as you're growing up and then. So I was given the opportunity to take over the business. Ash wasn't involved in the business at that time, he was doing his own thing. It was only later that he came in. And you know, sometimes you know we have, like every business, every family have difficult conversations, but it's not personal. You know we don't scream and shout at each other, but well, not often. Anyway Try not to jump in front of the staff. But yeah, we don't scream and shout at each other, but there is that more of a sibling sort of relationship there, whereas if it's not your relative, your brother, your sister, it's probably easier to manage. But yeah, we get there and we understand the boundaries. But it's not always playing silly, mark, I tell you.

Mark Bracknall: 33:25

Yeah, the pros and cons, like you say, and I imagine, because you've got our relationship as well, you'll challenge each other, you know, and perhaps in situations where someone wouldn't challenge someone, but you might get the best out of each other. Because of that, you know, I think there's definitely pros and cons, but look, it definitely worked because you know. Look where you are.

Bradley Gaunt: 33:46

Sorry, I was just going to add. So it is interesting thinking about it, because Ash and I, when we're developing stuff, we're very in tune with each other, almost finishing each other's sentences, that sort of thing, because we're growing up with each other. And it's funny because, like other people, my ops director is also an engineer and his friend of mine from when I was younger. But he's like you know, when you two get on it, you're just like you're rabbitting on and you'll say a few words and the other, Ash, will understand exactly what you're talking about, and vice versa, and then you're like you come up to a solution quite quickly because we understand exactly where each other's coming from. But from an outside point of view, from what I'm led to believe, it's quite, it's unclear, a bit chaotic, but I guess it's just that dynamic of growing up with somebody, isn't it? Yeah?

Mark Bracknall: 34:35

Being in tune and look, you two obviously very creative people. Is that something you've tried to harness in the business as well? So people come in, having you know, having some input into what happens and change and bringing ideas to the table. In terms of what future like developing future product or Absolutely yeah, because you get some businesses where, like you know, the message comes from the top. You get some businesses that want other people to have ideas and bring new ideas and bring change to business. What's your mindset about that? What do you say?

Bradley Gaunt: 35:14

Definitely encourage. I'd like you know, ideas brought to you forward. You know it doesn't have to be an engineering, it can be across the business as a whole. There's some good people, there's a lot of good people in the business now, a lot of capable people who can run with it, take a task, get on, run with it, get it done, and I'm quite happy for that to occur. In the early days you know that wasn't possible. I had to be involved in every area. But now you know I can concentrate more on the things that I'm passionate about. So the design side of things and the engineering department and, I guess, a bit of sales at a bit of marketing. But certainly, if I'm honest, it is quite difficult sometimes because I guess I've got the added experience of being at the company from such an early stage where we had fitting teams we had, so we understood what the customers wanted at that point we had and also what the fitters. So what the customers wanted, what the fitters appreciated in terms of ease and speed for their installation and manufacturing as well. So my background is manufacturing engineering, so that as well. So when I'm looking at a product, when we're looking as a team at what products to develop next, or if we've chosen one and we're trying to decide on what the specification is and what the USPs are.

Bradley Gaunt: 36:49

You know you do have self belief. I have self belief in you know the direction that I want that to go. But it's important and I guess I'm sometimes guilty of this, but I do try to not just like push on with one idea. You know it's trying to have your eyes open to what others can put on into the table, into the mix, and then it's about discussing those things and, like I said earlier, coming up with with a solution that essentially the teams generated. But you know it is quite difficult being the in a way being, you know, creative at the top, as a leader in that respect, because you know you do have self belief and you do think well, you know this is this is how I see it and this is how I think. Therefore it should be done. But, like I say, you've got to be mindful, you've got to accept that there are the people who have good ideas and give that the time and day and but ultimately come up with a better product and better solution because of it.

Mark Bracknall: 38:00

Yeah, yeah, you mentioned 2015. By the time, there's some change in your vision. I had Mike Matthews on my podcast three weeks ago, the XMDA at NIFCO. He challenged me a lot on having a plan. I thought I had a plan until any of you didn't play. I didn't have a clear enough plan, which I think links with the vision. Is that something you've always felt important for the business in terms of you know, knowing what your plan is to reach X, whatever you go is in the next some of the years, or is it different ideology for you?

Bradley Gaunt: 38:32

In the last few years we've definitely got a plan, or at least more of a plan. Like I said to you in the early days, it was just a case of getting to the end of the week or trying to get to the end of the year. You know, and still be in business. When we launched the Lantern, it was all new territory. We didn't know where it was going and you know, it was a case of we now need to sort of try and grow the business in a controlled manner and not become too top heavy and be efficient and leading. We'll have the right people in the right positions. But now we've got broadly that model.

Bradley Gaunt: 39:12

You know, we have been able to look forward and our business is about. It's about product and having what we believe is the best product in the market and that's the vision is to continue along that path and to keep, continue to expand the product portfolio, but doing the right things at the right time. So, yeah, we in past times we haven't had the vision and we haven't had possibly the vision that we should have had, but we definitely get in there now. It's not entirely clear I'm sure nobody's is, but you know we've got a good idea of where we're sort of wanting to head Absolutely.

Mark Bracknall: 40:03

Manufacturing obviously has had its challenges. It's still got a lot of challenges. Right now. You'll have seen a hell of a lot of change in the time you've obviously been running that business. Where do you see manufacturing now in terms of where it's going and perhaps challenges that you're facing a business or you see coming up, what do you say? Because it feels like it's a bit of a pivotal moment, I would say, in the industry at the moment.

Bradley Gaunt: 40:30

I think it's got to come down to, like I said, product is important. You know, if you, if you, if you manufacturing a product that nobody wants and you're doing the best way in the world, it's still not going to make you a good business. You're still, you know, you're not going to sell money, those products. So having the right products is really important and I think you know we've just seen, we've seen surf style go pop not so long ago. You know national, national name and if you look at the georeflex and a few companies within that group, they went month or so ago as well, and these are big companies that've been around a lot of years, whether they just haven't been agile enough to change with the market. So I think it's important for companies to be close to data driven. I keep saying that to our staff You've got to look at the data. What's it saying? You've got to conform to fit in terms of the market. So if the market's on a decline, recognise that, try to understand why. Is this something that you can do to make to improve the position of the business? Do you have to downscale? Do you have to diversify Costs, whatever that may be be more efficient? You know these are all things that we're going to have to, as I think it's not just the industry I'm in, we're in it, it's everywhere.

Bradley Gaunt: 42:05

You've got to be more efficient, more lean, but doing the products that you do, making sure that you've got good service with it. These are all important factors that I think some companies miss, and it's whether they and sometimes it's just a case that they're too big to react that quickly. So, yeah, I do think there's challenges that we are facing. There's more challenges, certainly, that we're going to face in the world. There's upside down a bit at the moment. You know, people are maybe holding on to their money where they were maybe a year ago, 18 months after COVID, there was a big boom in sales. Now they're holding on and you've got to try and do the best you can with the tools you have, and I just think that the way we're going, I say efficiency, being lean, having the right products and service. So those are probably the take-homes, I guess.

Mark Bracknall: 43:10

Excellent stuff. Got some quick fire questions, but that's OK. But what was the best? Who was the best manager? Now you might have to think back here, because obviously you were starting with year 23. But who was the best manager, or influence, if you like, on your career that you've ever had? I let nothing influence because you're not my managers.

Bradley Gaunt: 43:33

I mean, it's got to be my dad. You know he founded the company and he brought me in and I like we talked about earlier, and he mentored me through and he's still there in the background. He's retired now but you know he's still interested in how the business is doing. He's handed the reins over many years ago but he's still there if you need any advice. And he still comes onto the trade shows with us. You know we go to the consumer show home building renovation and he's there on the stand all day. 77 year old, he just loves it and I think it's just good cracker getting away with the boys, but he's he's definitely been the biggest influence in my career. Yeah, substantially compared to. We've had some good people, but you know, I think that that one my dad is the one.

Mark Bracknall: 44:27

He must be unreal, unbelievably proud as well to say you know what I mean Like for him to have had a business that he was probably perhaps ready to give up to its 40th year coming up, you know, with both his sons working in. Unbelievable, really.

Bradley Gaunt: 44:43

I think he is. I mean he says he is. So, you know, I mean we like it wouldn't be possible, we wouldn't be impossible without him, and I think he's given us the tools in our early years to be able to get where we are today. He's allowed us to make decisions where decisions needed to be made and supported us both of us really. But yeah, I would like, I think he is, I think he is proud, but you know we've still got a long way to go. Hopefully you'll see those changes over the next decade as well.

Mark Bracknall: 45:24

Do you ever give yourself time to I mean, I think podcasts are interesting to do that but do you ever give yourself time to reflect on it's? Because, obviously, when you're in the business, you're just in the business, aren't you, and it's very hard to put your head above and and see how the last few years have gone. Do you give yourself time to sort of go right, I can't need to analyze and think about things, or is just all systems go?

Bradley Gaunt: 45:47

A year or so ago it was. It was a point I got to and I was looking at the business and I think, Christ, you know it's like, this is a big thing now. You know where we started from. You know it's a big thing now and you start to question, well, is it, was it me? But you know how am I going to do this? I guess I think it's imposter syndrome is the term, you know, and and, and I did sort of feel that it was a case of all, I was a little me get.

Bradley Gaunt: 46:14

You know, this sort of business that I'm looking at here and the people are doing it and you know what, the sort of things that we're developing, and there's people in the business to a more intelligent than I am, I mean, there is.

Bradley Gaunt: 46:25

I'm just I'm not going to sit here and say you know that I'm the, you know, the Stephen Hawking of the business is there is, there's some very capable, very clever people, and it is difficult sometimes to for me at least, to to sit back and sort of take all the credit, because there's a lot of people in that journey along the way. So it's, but yeah, it's been. It's an interesting point to make and I have. I sat back and looked at you know where we've come from, where we are now, and I certainly have, and sometimes it's it's quite surreal and, like I say, it sort of made me a year or so ago a question. You know, how has this even happened? You know, and I guess you know, I have been there and I've been influential in it, but it's not just been myself, there's been a lot of other people on the journey getting us here.

Mark Bracknall: 47:26

Yeah, I think it's clear even for me to listen, to know that you've you've facilitated that journey. You know you've brought the right people in. You facilitate the right decisions. You've met, you've imagined how to make some very tough, quick decisions at times to get the business afloat and to keep the business agile and obviously you know the end result is is a very successful business, which is which is great to see. I say, you know, celebrate 40 years. I think is phenomenal and I'll take I'm eight years in, I'll take 40, I think Biggest influence from the business, entertainment or sporting world, would you say.

Bradley Gaunt: 48:03

And what was that? Sorry, what?

Mark Bracknall: 48:06

Biggest influence from the feet for you on from the business or entertainment or sporting world, anyone that sort of ever inspired you or you like listen to or watch.

Bradley Gaunt: 48:15

I mean from the sporting world. I'm a rugby man, so Johnny Wilkinson is probably one of my. He's only a couple of years older than me, but he's. He was definitely someone that I looked up to when I was younger. You know, he's brilliant, obviously, at what he did In terms of business. I mean, there's some entrepreneurs out there that you look up to. I'm trying to think of who would really who's really inspired me over the years. I guess a lot of it is is is sport, because I'm quite passionate about racing, you know, motorsport and rugby, like I say, cycling, you know there's some big names in there, I guess that have inspired me over the years and people just pushing their boundaries and going beyond what's what you would expect is humanly possible. You know, it's quite awe-inspiring really.

Mark Bracknall: 49:26

Expecting Schumacher to be to be your sport in there, oh yeah.

Bradley Gaunt: 49:30

Yeah.

Mark Bracknall: 49:31

But yeah, I know you're a batting racing. What are three things, or three words that make up a good leader? What do you say? First things that come to mind Motivational.

Bradley Gaunt: 49:50

And what would be the third one, supportive, I guess.

Mark Bracknall: 49:59

Yeah, great, Best book or audio book, podcast, anything you've ever read, watched, listened to you recommend.

Bradley Gaunt: 50:06

This is really sad. Well, maybe really sad, but I really love the Stephen Fry on it with the Harry Potter, yeah, yeah, but my kids absolutely love it and they put it on every night. It's like their comfort thing and it's on in the car all the time. But it's really really. That is what I found, a way, the best audio book for me Because he does all the voices brilliantly and it's such well written. But, like I say, it's not. It's maybe more for the kids, but yeah.

Mark Bracknall: 50:38

Probably because it takes you away, though, isn't it? Probably because it's escapism still for you it takes you away from, I think you're right, I think you're absolutely right.

Bradley Gaunt: 50:43

I think it is. You can escape into this world, can't you? For a fleeting moment? So, yeah, yeah, you're probably right there, man, I've never thought of that.

Mark Bracknall: 50:53

And just five. We've talked a lot in detail over trade. It's a brilliant business For you. What are the things you're excited about in the next 12, 22 months? Anything out on the horizon.

Bradley Gaunt: 51:03

Yeah, we've got the Flat Glass, which we sort of launched, but Fischo, that's going to be available imminently, very excited about that. There's another product that is on the horizon which I really can't talk about just yet, but early, but that's on the horizon. And then we're in the throes of building a more robust engineering team with multiple teams, so we can accelerate what we do in a more efficient way. So that's exciting. Yeah, there's a number of things really, but it's always. Every day is a school day. I reckon You're always learning something, aren't you?

Mark Bracknall: 51:54

And you know what. This has been an absolute pleasure and I think for people listening, perhaps they run a business or they work for a business or whatever, or they've lost their way a little bit. I think the overall message for me is that innovation piece is the favorite thing, but if you look back over your journey of the business, you've not just accepted what is. You've always looked for what could be and what could change. And even there, when you've mentioned there, you've got new things on the horizon, new plans, new products, and I think it's so important in manufacturing, in engineering, because it's ever changing. Where that's for challenges we have or opportunities we have, or whatever it is. There's always something different companies can do and I think you've obviously done that as a business and you've read the word, so we really appreciate this. It's been great. Thank you very much.

Bradley Gaunt: 52:42

Thank you very much, Mark. It's been a pleasure. I've enjoyed being here. I hope you enjoyed being here.