Imagine surging your company's turnover from £10 million to an astronomical £70 million. That's the reality for Rachel Steed, the indomitable CFO of Janus International, who joins us to map out her journey leading a vast business expansion. Rachel doesn't hold back as she dissects the synergy of leadership and finance, highlighting the transformative role of KPIs and how to sidestep the snares that often entangle growing businesses. She offers a masterclass in steering staff through the tides of cultural change, serving as a playbook for aspiring leaders looking to make their own mark.
As we dissect the intricacies of manufacturing performance, Rachel delivers a wealth of insight into the importance of capacity and time management. But it's not just about the numbers - her career story is a testament to the power of determination, proving that traditional education paths aren't the sole route to leadership. She lays bare the evolving workforce expectations and how leaders can foster a culture of progress and visibility. Her experiences as a female leader in a male-dominated field shine a beacon of hope for diversity and inclusivity in the workplace.
Wrapping up, Rachel reflects on the lessons she's gleaned along her leadership path, stressing the importance of adaptability and the drive to enact change. We unpack the complex decisions behind technological investments, like the significant acquisitions for their Peterlee plant, and how to cultivate a collaborative culture. Each anecdote and nugget of wisdom reinforces the idea that effective leadership is about inspiring others and maintaining credibility. Join us for an episode that not only enlightens but also motivates you to lead with integrity and guide your business towards unparalleled growth.
Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298
Imagine surging your company's turnover from £10 million to an astronomical £70 million. That's the reality for Rachel Steed, the indomitable CFO of Janus International, who joins us to map out her journey leading a vast business expansion. Rachel doesn't hold back as she dissects the synergy of leadership and finance, highlighting the transformative role of KPIs and how to sidestep the snares that often entangle growing businesses. She offers a masterclass in steering staff through the tides of cultural change, serving as a playbook for aspiring leaders looking to make their own mark.
As we dissect the intricacies of manufacturing performance, Rachel delivers a wealth of insight into the importance of capacity and time management. But it's not just about the numbers - her career story is a testament to the power of determination, proving that traditional education paths aren't the sole route to leadership. She lays bare the evolving workforce expectations and how leaders can foster a culture of progress and visibility. Her experiences as a female leader in a male-dominated field shine a beacon of hope for diversity and inclusivity in the workplace.
Wrapping up, Rachel reflects on the lessons she's gleaned along her leadership path, stressing the importance of adaptability and the drive to enact change. We unpack the complex decisions behind technological investments, like the significant acquisitions for their Peterlee plant, and how to cultivate a collaborative culture. Each anecdote and nugget of wisdom reinforces the idea that effective leadership is about inspiring others and maintaining credibility. Join us for an episode that not only enlightens but also motivates you to lead with integrity and guide your business towards unparalleled growth.
Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298
What's it like, not only being part of a business but integral part of the business as a number two, starting from a 10 million tail over to a 70 million pound turnover business? Well, rachel Steed is a CFO of Janice International and they have done exactly that with still aggressive growth plans. So I couldn't wait to have her on the show and it did not disappoint. We just talk about everything in this episode. We talk about the importance of finance. We talk about the collaboration that is needed between the operations and finance department. We talk about the KPIs you should look for and growing a business, the pitfalls that companies trying to grow or trying to get to to A2B potentially don't look at. We talk about culture and how that changes as you become a large business and how, potentially, you're going to work with your staff to make sure that you can do that. It's just a really good, open conversation from someone, an aspiring female leader, who has got where she is today through hard work and tenacity. For me, that was an overriding message of today that you absolutely get out what you put into this life. So you're going to really enjoy this episode.
Speaker 1:Please make sure you subscribe and follow Just click that button, because it means a will to me. Hope you enjoy the episode. Thanks, rachel. Welcome to the Manufacturing Leaders podcast. We really call way to interview you and have you on here. So how are you All?
Speaker 2:good, yeah, good Good to be here. Mark, thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1:Would you mind giving this viewers a very quick introduction of yourself and the business, if that was all right.
Speaker 2:Sure, so RetroCeed. I'm the CFO of Janice International Europe Limited, so in our group we are very international. We've got a US parent company and the areas that I oversee financially are the UK, europe, australia and Asia. So that's under my remit for finance, it and ESG, which is obviously a bit of a watchword right now. So Janice, what does Janice do? We're a billion dollar company headquartered in the US and we do design, manufacture and installation of predominantly self-storage solutions, but we do do commercial doors internationally as well. So we do have some adjacencies and we have an access digital access control platform as well. So InterTech too.
Speaker 1:Excellent, love it, perfect Right. First question, same question to ask everyone what does it mean to you to be a leader?
Speaker 2:I think somebody gave a definition actually, which I thought was a very simple one, about being a leader. It's like a manager is somebody who directs people to do stuff, whereas a leader is somebody that hopefully inspires people and you can tell if you're being effective if you look over your shoulder who's still following. So a manager would instruct you to, whereas a leader will hopefully look over their shoulder and see people in the rearview mirror. So I think I like that definition actually and I think that's a lot about, I think, just remaining relevant in what you do and what you say, because if you're not going to, if you are doing that kind of piece, you really do want it to be credible and that people can see see what it is and they follow it because they think it's valuable.
Speaker 2:So for me, I like the broad collaboration of being a leader. It's great that I get into influencing a lot of decisions. I get that sort of spectrum, so that's really useful. Nobody wants to do just one thing day in, day out. So it's a very broad, a very broad church, especially in my role and, I think, just influencing others actually. So I'm hoping that I do influence others in what I do and how I lead. So I think that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it. Now. I like what you said about making sure you're always credible as well, because I guess, I mean, management is just changing all the time, isn't it, as people change. I think that's the big thing that's exciting. Is that something you are do? You feel that almost pressure and responsibility to make sure your, I guess, continue to hone your skills on that side?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely think so and I think sometimes old fashioned finance obviously I, you know, in my career finance has been that I am an accountant, a qualified accountant. So I think sometimes old finance used to be finance is where numbers go to die and they will go into the corner and that's where you know, that's where that information ends up and for them and for me, it's very much making fine finance in particular relevant for the business to help it make decisions. So there needs to be a kind of complete continuum of that information back out to the organization so they can see some of the results that maybe they don't notice day to day. Actually, you can see the trends. If you chart the trends, you can share the trends and you can just help others in the organization sort of see the effect of that actually. So being relevant, being credible.
Speaker 2:We've just come back from a strategy meeting in Singapore for our organization thinking about the next five years and whilst you need to have that blue sky thinking, you really do need to bring that down, back down through the tactical path down to day to day activities actually, because if it's not credible, people can't see it and believe it. Then they're not going to reach that goal. So you really just got to kind of translate that that big picture into stuff that people can kind of isolate and, and you know, digest.
Speaker 1:Basically I completely agree, and I really agree with what you said about the finance side trip, because I think a lot of companies make the mistake early doors of not seeing the importance of the financing it comes back to. You know cash is king because a lot of people start businesses. A lot of entrepreneurs start businesses because they're passionate about something or they're good at something. The finance side sometimes is seen wrongly. In my eyes is a bit of an add-on, but that you learn the hard way typically. Have you seen that as you've worked with various businesses You've almost had to persuade them for the importance of the finance side?
Speaker 2:I think. So Finance is a great way to kind of introduce yourself to the organization because ultimately it's something that has to happen. There is a cycle. You move for the numbers, the numbers don't move for you, the dates don't move for you. You have to do things on a certain time. So it really lends itself very well to business partnering with the organization and just getting in deep.
Speaker 2:So I mean we have an operations department where we have project managers who actually sort of deliver on the projects that the sales team sell. So when it comes to revenue recognition and progress on site, you have to know what that is. So you can't just sit in the corner and look at the spreadsheet to see what you think it is. You've got to chat to people, you've got to challenge what they're doing, you've got to kind of keep focus on the commerciality of something. So I very much wanted to be relevant within the organization and I encourage my team to be the same. So, yeah, I think, as I said, it's just moving away from that old-fashioned finance and really perhaps called it the accounts department. We're not the accounts department, we're the finance department and we'd like to be relevant to the organisation and really we want people to rely on us. It is that whole cycle of what they need from you and what you can give to them. So, yeah, that's really it really.
Speaker 1:Is technology helping that? Because I guess years have gone by. It was Excel spreadsheets, which is still a massive part of business, obviously, but for a lot of people, a lot of people turn off by spreadsheets and they don't really really just switch off completely. Are you seeing, technology almost helped because it's easier now to show data to the team in a bit more of a visual method.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and I think some of the challenges in finance is obviously just not taking so long to actually prepare the result or the piece that you're trying to demonstrate. You don't want to spend sort of three weeks doing that and then just having two or three days rushing about the outcomes of it. So if you can streamline the vehicle to get you to that information and then take longer to share and discuss that information, then that has to be better. So technology, I mean we have a platform. Most of our platforms within our business are Microsoft, so we use a platform that is universal across the entities that I mentioned. So internationally we can do that.
Speaker 2:So click on the button you can see is Stocktake in another country, in another company. So it definitely helps with that piece. And then you just have those reporting pieces that layer on top, like Power BI and what have to you. Just that really collects all of that information and sort of data warehouse kind of shape, but it really is just trying to gather information, present information, ask stakeholders what they want to see as well. So you might just go, I think, these five KPIs and they'll go. Actually that misses what is valuable to us. But yes, definitely, tech is a big part of what it needs to be and become more so. I think we're hearing co-pilot from Microsoft, so things like that. Just they're just going to enhance the whole experience really.
Speaker 1:And that I got me thinking. So if you were at your brains, if you were to something work for another manufacturer, you wouldn't do, but let's say hypothetically, or if someone did, and they were particularly a slightly or fair with the financial side or the data side. Imagine KPIs there. Which do you think are, which would you would be the most important numbers and piece of data to look at and to regularly check to get a business back moving in the right direction. What do you say? Perhaps for a company it doesn't feel they're doing that right now as much as do.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess there's the obvious ones. There's your top line revenues. So what are they? What are they year on year? What are they against the budget that you set for yourself? So it's really just the metrics in comparison to what you thought you would do, and obviously it's very good to compare against prior year just to see are you growing?
Speaker 2:You can't help but ignore gross margins. So once you've taken off the costs to deliver the projects that you're working on, you need to see what those margins are. And they might be individually, by product line as well. So you might go well, we deliver projects that sell storage, but within that we have the manufacturer piece, we have the project management delivery piece, we have the freighting piece, et cetera, et cetera and more besides. So you need to look at all of those really. And so gross margin is a big thing.
Speaker 2:You said earlier, cash is king. You can't ignore. You could have a paper profit, which is great, but if you're not collecting your cash, then that will put you into difficulties with suppliers. You know, make relationships tense and things like that. So it's that piece. And then, of course, again looking at your operational expenditure as a percentage of revenue. You don't want the kind of people that would be considered overhead, which I would be one, so not kind of like client facing. It's those other costs you want to just make sure they're in context to what your top, your top line is.
Speaker 2:And there's each company or each industry will have some kind of a metric to compare to make sure you're not spending too much on your overheads. And then, obviously, the shareholder return what you give back to those that have let you be in business in the beginning to release, just to make sure that you've got returns. So there's a few in there, but then there'll be very specific ones. So, as us as a manufacturer, we'll be looking at the quantity of units we produce, again always in comparison. Sometimes that's a tricky one because you know if people want to buy different things from you year on year, you can't. You might go well, that number's gone up but that number's gone down, but you may be busier. It's just that there's a difference. You know there's a different mix of what people are seeking. So you just know and that's why if you perhaps just measure a single KPI, like we have made X units, it may not tell all the stories. So you always need those sort of subclassifications beneath it, just to really paint the picture really.
Speaker 1:Love that. Have you seen any common mistakes? Would you say that the manufacturers, or even any companies in that matter, have made you know when, in terms of when you're looking at the data going, there's an obvious. There's low hanging fruit here. Jimmy, are there? What are the biggest mistakes you see people making in that regard?
Speaker 2:I guess in what? In measuring KPIs, or in the business?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess if you were to consult the business and lift the bonnet up, are there any obvious things? You go right, you're not looking at this, you're not looking at that. This hasn't been a priority. It should be. Do you know what I mean? Have you seen that in the business you work with?
Speaker 2:I think you've got to just define what's what good should look like. So I mean, I've worked in different industries business process, outsourcing, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And again every company has a widget that they sell, be it a service or be a product. So, particularly for manufacturing, I think we could record units that we make, but we don't know whether that's good. So we would want to judge our capacity and we would also want to perhaps do some time management piece of how long it should take to make that piece.
Speaker 2:Because if you make, say, 100 units a day, you might go well, we've made 100 units before and you know that's great because we're adhering to what we're used to. But actually if you've got the capacity to make 120, well then 100 isn't really good enough. So it's really just breaking it down. You very often got to kind of deconstruct, to reconstruct, when you're thinking about things like that, and that would be a really good way to collaborate, finance with the production department, just to sort of have them see you know how that stacks up, really to help them understand their own targets. Really, because if you're on the factory floor you might be turning out, turning the handles, turning 100 units out, but if you can strive for 120, you would probably feel very satisfied to hear that yeah great and that's a great example.
Speaker 1:I'm really keen I'm sure people listening will be as well to understand briefly a little bit about your journey, because you know you're safe over a huge business. You know number two, I guess, in terms of structurally, and you've worked your way up in a probably a slightly different route than some typically. Can you talk us through a little bit about that? But did you ever, did you think you would be in this position? You know, was this planned meticulously or is it by chance?
Speaker 2:I'd like to say it was, but no it wasn't Actually.
Speaker 2:My dad was an accountant and I actually I probably mainly think that I didn't want to be one, so I spent a long time not doing that. I didn't actually complete my A levels as well, so I did my A levels. I didn't finish my A levels and I guess that kind of knocked my confidence back a bit and I started, just took a bit of a different turn. I worked in hospitality, worked in factories, been on the factory production line, worked, as I said, in hospitality, did some travelling, and then I worked in a different administration role and actually in fact, when I was in that role I was sort of going up, I was getting some kind of recognition for what I was doing. But I went for a job that I competed with somebody a friend of mine, actually a friend and colleague of mine who had the qualification and I didn't, and whilst I felt I was very capable of doing the job, I didn't get the job because I didn't have the qualification. So that was like a you know, that was a hard knock for me and it really made me feel very inspired and very motivated to not let that be the reason that I didn't get another chance. So it really kind of just kicked me into thinking about what I need to do that.
Speaker 2:So I did evening classes for AAT and then from AAT I then took on a professional qualification and I did that evenings and weekends quite intense. But I felt really really proud that when I got that qualification and then I was stepping into finance because I was in finance whilst I started that journey and then inevitably obviously it was very relevant to being finance I was in finance and moved across. So I felt that was I really enjoyed it as well. So it really helped me get back on because a lot of my friends and colleagues had done the university route. But that's not the route I took. But it just goes to show if you apply yourself to it then you can put yourself into a space and then I think so.
Speaker 2:For me it's just about, like I said, being credible and relevant. So I've had the opportunities through my career and I think people have seen me as a solid contributor. So I've been very grateful for the chances that I've had that have led me to here and I love doing what I do. I don't get bored ever. I think you've got to if you've got a sort of curiosity mindset. You know you follow little things here and there and you know everything that you do and learn obviously is valuable to the organisation. So if you can help the organisation in any way I mean some of the things that I've done have got really nothing to do with finance. So, for instance, when we finish a project we used to just go well, we finished that project and naturally we would move on to service the next customer and do their project and then quite often we'd leave that project hanging so it'd be like okay, we've done all the final bits on that, we've charged the final invoice, we paid the subcontractor, we've done those things.
Speaker 2:So bringing in just a sort of simple practical date of completion process which is very operational and tells the customer that we've finished on site, this is the end of what we're doing for you and that has been really helpful in terms of our organisation's processes and helps us. So it's not really to do with finance, particularly some of it yes, of course, the invoicing bit, as I said, but it's just really satisfying to be able to contribute in that kind of way actually, and I think maybe when you've done a few things and worked a little bit differently, you kind of get that leveled approach to things as opposed to I'm a classic, I just have the university route and I'm very good technically, but actually what is my practical application experience? So I think that kind of helped me with that.
Speaker 1:And actually your example there is great because it also gets back to knowing what good looks like like. Say, you've obviously got those set principles of business. Now this is the process is what good looks like and you account before it. So, and what I really like about what you said about your journey and this might even be a bit controversial, but I sat on a presentation of the week and there's a panel talking about young people getting into manufacturing, young people getting just into business, and there was a debate around entitlements and there was a debate around how much young people now want that visibility, that progression route. They need to know exactly where they need to get to.
Speaker 1:I documented black and white tangibles, which you can do and I'm on board with that because I see it and I completely understand it and we've used it here. However, the flip side of that is it's still not enough. It's not spoken about enough. People like yourself who just got bloody hard work real hard work, weekends, nights, going above beyond doom and I still don't. It's almost like people are scared to say that now, because people are now and they say which ever? You know which is a thing as well, but you know you get out what you put into this world and I still think that's. It's almost people are scared to talk about now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so, and I think because you're doing it for yourself really.
Speaker 2:So, okay, it's nice to be, you know, and actually if I'd been given that role, that wouldn't have been the right thing for me because it would have led me in a different path and it wouldn't have fulfilled me as much as my career has done. But yeah, I think it does come down to some hard graft, but then I think it's great you can have that confidence when you're here because you know it there and you know it there and you know it there. So it's really good to kind of have that kind of progressive career actually. And yeah, it does take a bit of hard graft, but that's okay if you're doing it for yourself, because that's ultimately what you're doing it for. Well then, why not?
Speaker 1:There's no doubt about it. Manufacturing and engineering, fortunately still dominated in a male dominated environment and particular board level. You know, I think you know, really it's almost not as visible that as the shop floor, but it's. You know, the stats are quite scary. Have you felt any resistance as your journey in terms of, you know, being a female leader? What do you say?
Speaker 2:It's kind of it's different. Really it's difficult to sort of assess. I mean, in our organisation we have recently sort of. You know we have had a.
Speaker 2:I have had female peers and you know, and again that's something that we've looked to make sure that we have a diverse and inclusive space that we can all be in. I think, along the way, most definitely because you know I'm a certain maturity, so I've certainly seen the changes actually and I'm glad now that things are much more open and progressive actually, because I don't think any woman in the workforce would kind of it's not reasonable for them to accept what was the modus operandus from from yesteryear actually. So it's good to be like that. So, yeah, it has been a bit like that. I mean, even when I joined this organisation, we didn't have females on the on the factory floor, and I'm really pleased that we do now actually, and actually that moment when that happened, it created a little bit of little bit of sort of natural extra energy actually, that there was some natural competition and the women on the work on the, on the, on the on the factory floor, they give as good as they get and they produce good stuff and they're absolutely valuable members of the team and they should be, because they can deliver just as much and sometimes more.
Speaker 2:Because I always think about that Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers bit, not really for the factory floor, but Fred Astaire was very much applauded for his dancing capabilities and Ginger Rogers, his partner, was. Her famous line was everything he does I do backwards and in high heels. So I kind of think that that's a bit of an analogy and a bit of a dated one. But about women in the workforce often you feel like you have to do that little bit more, you have to be that little bit extra resilient to manage that. I never expect any special treatment. I don't want any. I think we should just all acknowledge each other as humans. So let's just expect that courtesy and that inclusiveness. But I don't expect anybody to do anything separate or different from me being a woman in the workplace.
Speaker 1:So just want a fair playing field like everybody, completely agree, completely agree. Is that something that Janice proactively look to try and improve? The it was in mandate to try and prove their ratio of men to women, because a lot of manufacturers are doing that right now and it's hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I mean. So we had a moment where we go why do we not have any women on the factory floor? And then made a conscious choice to make sure that that's something that we did. We, somebody, wanted to apply for the role. We will see who they are and let them come. So yes, for that. I mean, in administration we have a good proportion of female staff. I think in the office we're about 50 50. So on the leadership team, you know the longest serving members of the leadership team it's myself and two male colleagues, but it hasn't always been that dynamic and at the moment we're expanding our leadership team and it's a bit more representative with women in that collective. So I'm pleased about that. It is a different dimension. I think you just bring different things. I mean, as humans we think differently, but I think it's good to have a mix of all things really.
Speaker 1:So you think that the important, that the catalyst there was the acknowledgement that there aren't enough, and then from that there was a conversation and just more be more open and diverse in terms of how you recruited, I guess, because that was that the part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that was. That was definitely something then and I'm really glad that we did that. So it's not that we thought, oh, you know, it's a big. I don't think we thought we needed to do it for the numbers or what we present externally. I think we just felt like that's weird, why have we not got women in this space? And now that we do, we're very glad that we have. We have those ladies amongst us contributing that way. As I said in the office we're probably 50 50. But factory flow definitely still not. But you know, there's absolutely space for for anybody, the best, best candidates for the world. As we're off.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of companies can learn a lot from Janice. Obviously, if I create on the podcast, I've got a little bit of time for him. I think it's a tremendous, tremendous leader. They have grown at exponential rates. You know they went through just crazy, crazy times of growth, which is amazing to see and not always easy. Obviously lots of challenges. What's that been like, working in that environment? We're just saying seeing that growth and being obviously a massive integral part of it.
Speaker 2:What's been amazing, actually, and when I saw, the business that I was in before was way bigger. It was about 250 million turnover and when I came to Janice as well still storage when I joined it that was sort of 10 to 12 million. And it's funny, when I went for the interview I walked up to the industrial estate that it was from my London Bridge view of the 10s office and somehow it just felt completely right and I thought I really feel I can bring something here, and really, really have enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:But, like the pieces that you changed and developed and encourage colleagues to do stuff, and what we have now is really can see a momentous change in how we do things. I always thought we were a big little company and have that kind of ambition back then, and since then we've done acquisitions, mergers and all kinds of corporate rearranging, whilst also being owned by a US parent company that's bloated on the New York Stock Exchange. So we've had to do an amazing amount of diligence for that process and amazing amount of diligence when we've evaluated companies that we wanted to buy.
Speaker 2:So it has been an ever changing kaleidoscope all around me, I never thought that I would stay as long as I have, but because it has been ever changing and evolving and growing. As I said, it's just we've never had a business as usual year actually. It's always been increasing, growing, changing and that's been fantastic actually. So, you know, built on a bedrock of good foundations, of systems and processes, always comes down to that. You've got to be able to, you know, have sort of robustness in your systems because otherwise growing is very difficult when you're sort of busting out all over. So you know that that's been, it's been, it's been amazing actually I've.
Speaker 2:You know, when you look back, and we're just opening a new production area internationally in Poland, and that's not to detract from what we have in the UK. We are a UK manufacturer and proud to be, and there's enough market here to serve. But it's very exciting actually, and when we go and cut the ribbon on that manufacturing plant. I think I will just take a moment to go. We've come from small beginnings to this, so from 10 to 12 million to 70 million and hopefully next year being towards 90 million.
Speaker 1:So apologies for interrupting this podcast for a very quick 30 second picture of my business. Theo James are a specialist in manufacturing and engineering recruitment search firm based in Seaham in the North East. If you're looking for any staff or new opportunity yourself from a semi-skilled level, write the way up to C-suite executive and please get in touch. We have a specialist consultant in each discipline ready to help. I'm extremely proud of what we've built over the years and I'd love to extend that service out to you. Thank you, enjoy the podcast.
Speaker 2:So you know, that's the journey that I've been on, so and with a lot of colleagues, obviously being that solid foundation.
Speaker 1:I love that and it has been amazing to see you mentioned those solid foundations. Can you pinpoint what those solid foundations are, would you say for a company perhaps, who you know struggled to grow when they would like to?
Speaker 2:I think back a while now, when we had that global financial crisis, we thought our industry, obviously storage is quite resilient, because you know how storage is used. People use it when they're upsizing, when they're downsizing and doing all that kind of thing. And the evolution of that has changed because people run businesses from their storage facilities. So we are not an operator, we deal with the capital end of those projects and I think for us. So we felt that the industry proved itself as resilient across those kind of challenges, those global challenges, and I think when we had those tough times, we just sort of hunkered down and took a look at our processes actually and thought, well, hang on, could we streamline this? Can we make it better? What's the customer experience? How can we address that?
Speaker 2:And really, if we think about kind of operational excellence, which is something we strive for, everything that the customer expects, there's an internal piece to support that. So we really try to frame everything they need by something that we do to sort of match that piece off. So I think at times when it's been tough like that and it was tough at COVID, when at the beginning of the COVID times like we need to be on site delivering stuff and installing stuff and people producing stuff on the factory floor. So it was tough and we thought, goodness, like everybody, how is this going to go? And I can remember phoning the bank and saying I don't know whether we're going to need a loan, but let's think about that. Can we just see where we are? We've got a good covenant with you.
Speaker 2:But, as it turned out, we weathered those storms and didn't make anybody redundant, so we supported everybody during those times in the best way that we could and came out of both those places with renewed vigor just to get back on site, which was quite a challenge because in the UK there were some set of rules and in Europe there was a different set if you went here or a different set if you went there.
Speaker 2:So it was quite tricky to just sort of get back into the spaces that we needed to be. So, yeah, I think it's just time to sort of reflect a little. I think when times are tough like that, it's reflected a bit just to see what you're doing, that you think you could do better. So that's the kind of robustness and I think, whilst nobody's going to be delighted about an improved process, they're just the intangibles that make the success of an organisation. As I said, nobody's going to go great, that was knockout, that you took those three steps out of that, but actually it does make a difference and that shows up in some of our customer satisfaction piece. So I guess it always comes down to fairly simple things. Really, there's no big measure, it's just the little things or iterations that make that good.
Speaker 1:It will even measure customer satisfaction. A lot of companies might not see the value in it, but that's, for most businesses, integral part of improving to know what they're doing right and wrong.
Speaker 2:more importantly, yeah, I mean, that is a key performance measure for us as an organisation. We want to make sure that we're getting 10s on our 1-10 scale of return and anything that could be challenging once that in a low school we would consider a complaint and we would want to follow up on that accordingly, because we want people. You know it's all. A lot of what we do is about return business and we have a lot of return business. So, yeah, we absolutely do value that and I guess that comes back to that cycle of just sort of you know, self-reflection and you know that ongoing cycle.
Speaker 2:Really, but yeah no, that's a big thing for us. Just to make sure we're doing what our customers need from us, and doing it the best way that we can. So that's what we work for.
Speaker 1:When you're moving from a. You know when you write a business that way, you know 10-50 million turnover up to. You know 70-80 million turnover purchased by. You know loads of big, big chains at the top. You know suddenly you could argue a more corporate type company overnight to some extent. How do you navigate through that culturally as a business? Because whenever there's change there's a little bit of fear, particularly on the shop floor. However, you know, is that something you need is to navigate that message just down to stuff. What you say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's true and it's sometimes. I don't think anybody could claim a complete win at that the whole time, because it's just difficult, because some people will prefer working for a small company where you did know everybody, you know you had your own mug in the kitchen and things like that. There is that piece inevitably, and when you do grow, people enjoy the success of it growing for a while and then they go, whoa, it's all changing a bit. I think some of that is just about. I think, as you've touched on them are just about communicating the journey.
Speaker 2:So we have weekly town halls with our whole organisation period with Australia, because of the timing is a little challenging otherwise. So every Monday we all talk about what we're doing, you know, individually, as teams, and things like that. And because we have just had this five-year strategy planning piece, we just had a little playback with everybody about what that is. We have the company day where we get the whole organisation all together, factory floor and office staff together, because we are all together, and then we'll just sort of we'll really take some time to walk through what our plans are so that people can see it, you know and feel it and feel part of it. So I think a lot of it is dealt with by communication.
Speaker 2:But you know, inevitably you have to put in some processes around stuff. Some people like that because they don't necessarily want hand-me-down instruction, year by year by year, which gets completely changed. You know, the eighth person that hears it is not going to be the same as it was intended. So some of that kind of formalisation of processes is something that is essential but actually also is quite helpful for people just to go oh, I can see the steps I'm supposed to follow.
Speaker 1:I guess that's. That's that transparency communication piece, isn't it?
Speaker 1:You know you make decisions, it's just to find why they're made and how it affects them. You know positively or negatively at some stage, even when you're looking at you know a new site in Poland's massive probably you don't feel might not feel that big to some extent because you've got other sites. But how do you decide where to put a new factory? Because I imagine there's a lot of owners or senior leaders want to expand abroad, or whether that will be. I imagine that is an absolute mindfield going, the logistics of it, the price of it, that must be quite a complex thing to go through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is complex and you evaluate what's there in the location. So for us, transport is a big thing because what we do, we send it around on trucks, so we need to make sure that we've got a well-connected location In terms of committing to a space that's big but not too big. So you might go well, I can feel that much. But I've got a kind of future-proof fit. So you almost have to just take a little bit of risk and thinking about well, let's think double.
Speaker 2:What we feel today and that's almost a bit of how it was with the office space that we took here in Twickenham as one of the locations, as well as having Peter Lee in the Northeast Is we were, oh, let's take that, that's about the size we need, and very quickly we needed more. So we've taken the whole building now. So I think when we looked at Poland, we certainly took a space that we thought we can grow into, because that's what we need to do, whilst obviously maintaining the factory at Peter Lee. Of course, that's a busy space for us and always will be.
Speaker 2:So but yes it is hard and actually working internationally. So we're in Poland. There's a lot of form-filling. We'll all be used to the form-filling in our own regions, but, goodness, there's a lot of bureaucracy in some of the European spaces that just work slightly differently and it's just really getting your head around all of that.
Speaker 1:And for you now, rachel? You've got a superb career. What is motivating you now? Now, would you say, versus on day one. Has that changed over time? Are you still very much the same sort of person? Where were you thought?
Speaker 2:Well, I think probably when I started it was, you know, I wanted to sort of influence things and make things better of a certain scale. So I think the scale of my influence was obviously much smaller. Now the scale of my influence is broader. So it's still that motivation of trying to make things better, really collaborating with new colleagues as we grow, are we picking the right team for going forward. So, yeah, I still feel very motivated.
Speaker 2:Actually our journey we just really get to that point where we could just sort of tip into being a much larger organization, which is our plan. So we've taken, we've hit all the bumps in the road getting to here and I feel now that we can start to really leverage what we've done and really sort of expand it, perhaps a bit more of a broader rate actually. So, yeah, that still motivates me. As I said, I don't if what I did or if any of my days were dull, I would be looking, you know, somewhere else, but my days are never dull, there are always lots to do. So, yeah, that keeps me, keeps me, you know, keeps me in the saddle.
Speaker 1:You mentioned that future growth, which is, you know, a progressive growth based on where you are now. Manufacturing is well. There's been had his challenges for the last three, four years, but it still does. What do you see as the biggest challenges? What do you say now, whether that's relevant to Janus or just manufacturing as a whole within the industry that you can see?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I mean you know we need to make sure that the innovation is rewarded. And you know things that we invest in. You know we've invested in some huge machinery that we put into our Peter Lee plant that really does stuff. So we really want to just make sure that we get government incentives to do things like that, to make those investments and, if we're doing research and development, that there's some motivation for that financially. And I think it's really just keeping the skilled workforce.
Speaker 2:Really, you know, because there's a yes, you can put robots in and do this and that, but you know, people make a business happen. So we need to just make sure that we've got, you know, accessibility to good quality people who care about what they do and have got a curiosity about making it better, and I think that's a lot of it. I mean, certainly, when I do interviews you kind of take, the CB tells you about their technical competency or their operational competency, depending on what role you're going for, but it's really their attitude of mine that sells them as a person, you know, because you can't necessarily teach that. So if people have got a natural curiosity to try and make things better and get involved, then really that's the ticket to ride for me. You mentioned the automation piece there.
Speaker 1:I know Janice heavily invested. It's a fascinating factory and the evolution you know for the last sort of five years, some companies it's difficult to have maybe internal battles to justify the cost of, you know, of a robot or a piece of kit which is going to potentially save the Moundan line. How challenging is that as your role? I guess, where you've got a craze coming, you're saying right, I need this piece of kit, so it's going to cost me 100,000 pounds, whatever it will be. How difficult is that to justify, because I guess you'll see things differently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to do the kind of you know the sums on it. And being an accountant doesn't mean to make you a mathematician, you know. It's about interpretation A lot of what being an accountant is and obviously just judging value in lots of different ways. Inevitably, when you've got you're asking for some cash. You've got to see potentially how quickly that investment would save you money to actually pay for itself. You've got to work out well, I guess you're just going to work out what it's going to do for the business. Will it increase capacity?
Speaker 1:Will it you?
Speaker 2:know, will it just solve a problem or all kinds of things. So I think for me, if we could, we obviously run the numbers on it just to sort of see those pieces and then just sort of judge it in a bit more of a sort of holistic sense. But for me I feel okay with that. We have a strong, we have a very big US parent company and we've made choices that we've been easily been able to afford and when we've done an investment in particularly Peter Lee amongst our billion dollar Janus company, we had the second biggest investment in a piece of machinery that we put into the Northeast. So I mean that's quite a proud claim actually for what we've done. But yes, always have to, always have to run the numbers. But then it's just looking at it holistically just to make sure you know, a lot of a lot of investment is about removing the sort of limiting factors of what's constraining your business from growing. So you know that's some of what you look at too.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, I found good support for what and how we invest and expect to continue to do so.
Speaker 1:I've brought back an old tradition where the old guests which I've stolen from another podcast obviously the old guests ask the current guest a question. So this question was actually from Claire Walton, who is a leadership coach. Basically, she consults. Business is tremendous, really good. So I knew she'd have a hard as in question. So this is hers what is the greatest mistake you've ever made as a leader and what have you learned from it? Well, no interview question right at you. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I think, particularly as a leader. I think there was an instance when I tried to evaluate a scenario and try to put myself in how somebody else would think about it. So I made a mistake because I wasn't authentic in how I judged and assessed how I would go forward with that scenario and suggested a solution to it. So I wasn't being authentically me and it showed up as not being authentically me and it wasn't a good solution, and I think. So lesson learnt with that is just trust your own judgement, because that's probably the best way to go. You might suggest something that isn't necessarily always the accepted way to go forward, but always be yourself in terms of thinking about how you'll evaluate it. So that was probably it.
Speaker 1:Love it. Great answer, you've got the job Nice. Great questions who's the best manager you've ever had and why?
Speaker 2:I work for. I think it's just as my sort of like tipping into finance. So it's, whilst I haven't got a finance job and I was starting to study and obviously that was where I wanted to go, he helped me just again, just sort of believe that I could do it, because I think I was coming from the place of not having that kind of technical qualification that I needed to move on up. And he was just so kind of just so laid back about it and he didn't make it feel like a big thing. He just said, well, yeah, if you feel like you want to do it, do it.
Speaker 2:And it just felt like the barrier suddenly just dropped away and I could just step over it, as opposed to feel what it could have felt like, which is it's really different. Finance is really hard. I don't know that I can go there and he just brought, he just took the barrier and squash it to the floor and then I put a step in and I think it was just his open mindedness and his candidness about I guess I've worked with him, so you know he knew what I was like and things like that and I really, I really appreciate it just how laid back he was actually just to make that, make that, make that an easy choice for me and one of the best choices that I've made.
Speaker 1:Nice. Biggest influence from either business, entertainment, sporting world. Anyone that comes to mind that will influence your mulberry chair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a tricky one. Actually. I tend to kind of not really sort of focus on individuals. Actually I know that sounds a bit weird, because I've got a bit of sort of feeling about that that I feel that it isn't individuals that necessarily make a mark on a business. Of course people do Like think about Steve Jobs and Apple Of course he did.
Speaker 2:But then I think I've also worked for a company where the CEO a former company. The CEO was very strong in his own perception of his value and when I was questioned about what was the DNA of the company, he felt entitled to say that and I thought a DNA is a very organic thing that comes from the organization. I don't think one person could say I'm telling you what it is, so now all go and feel it, because it is a very visceral thing felt by many. I know the message and the culture comes from a smaller group. So I always kind of resist, kind of sort of really featuring that. Actually I just sort of what inspires me is people that have got, you know, like just a really casual open mind about stuff and really can be very inclusive in how they talk about and discuss things. I really value that quality in people actually. So it's more just a kind of lot persona than naturally a kind of, you know, an individual or a sports team or something like that.
Speaker 1:Actually, yeah, I like that view because I think you know the best leaders facilitate brilliance. You know it's not about them, it's how they bring the best out of others. So it links in with that.
Speaker 2:I would say Definitely yeah it really does and you know what and you can tell when somebody is really positive and very sort of well-intentioned to the whole kind of process is when they do give space for somebody to be what they can and should be. So I really do value that and when I see that happening I really enjoy it and I take them out of the people that can do that, as well, as some people that I've worked with can.
Speaker 1:So three words, things that make up a good leader. First, things that come to your mind.
Speaker 2:Inclusiveness, I would say. Well, I said inclusiveness, I mean I really do feel collaboration. You cannot get there on your own. You do have to collaborate with people. And just a word influence, I think probably. So they're all kind of around that theme, but it just goes to show that well, for me, I feel like you just can't get there on your own, You've got to go with people, and that journey has to be by many, not maybe created by a few, but followed by many.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that. Any family, any books, audio books or podcasts anything you've listened to or read that you would recommend.
Speaker 2:One of the a book I so enjoy and I need to reread it.
Speaker 2:My favorite book is Bird Song, which is a novel and I love that so much that it kind of weeping on the tube, which is a bit sad.
Speaker 2:But the book I really really loved was a book I can't remember the surname, I think it was Ferguson, but it's called American Caesars and it's about 10 presidents, so starting with Roosevelt, and it's just going through.
Speaker 2:So it tells a little bit about them personally, how they were elected and their kind of how they were in office. And it's amazing just going back in that time because they obviously they're people, some of them from very humble beginnings, and just their and their influence and actually, as the book goes on and we come to more latter day presidents, some of the kind of less than positive ways of getting into the office that they ended up having. So there's definitely a sort of flavor of a little bit of underhandedness and some of that. So I did find that absolutely fascinating because being that person with that influence, I mean you want, you want them to be superhuman and it's amazing just to sort of, you know, just sort of see the real life facts about some of those guys. But that was an amazing book. I really enjoyed it. Well worth a reread for myself.
Speaker 1:Note to self.
Speaker 1:I'll have a look at that. It's a great recognition. I really enjoyed this. It's been great and I think for me is that you nailed it two minutes ago when you talked about, for your things important for a leader. You know collaboration because it's you know.
Speaker 1:It's obvious for me to see, despite your such an important role in the business and the influence you have on people and you see the importance of that. I think everyone who is in any form of leisure role needs to understand the importance of the influence they have. But also how important collaborating is. This not just someone. If you're in a senior role, just me tell people below you what you do. It's that collaboration and I think you can see that in Janice's values, how you know everyone speak to, that you know they all have that and that obviously trickles down from the top. That you know in order to grow and progress, you'd need to collaborate and listen and be authentic and all things you talked about. So you know I think you live and breathe the values of the company today, which has been been great to see. So thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Speaker 2:That's all right. I've enjoyed it, Mark. Thank you.