Join the two-year celebration of our podcast as we sit down with the remarkable Liam Hunt, the youthful mastermind behind Ambic Manufacturing. As we raise a toast to growth and innovation, Liam unpacks the art of leadership, his strategy for scaling businesses by striving for autonomy, and the blend of inspiring passion with shrewd management that has characterised his journey. If you're itching to up your leadership game and empower your teams, this is a conversation that stands as a testament to what youthful ambition coupled with strategic thinking can achieve.
Transitioning into the realm of people as the cornerstone of any enterprise, we share tales of aligning goals and harnessing individual strengths to catapult a business to the forefront of its industry. You'll hear how adopting the goal of making oneself redundant isn't just a whimsical ideal, but a concrete strategy for fostering scalability and team autonomy. These insights serve as an arsenal for anyone managing one or multiple ventures, illuminating the path to creating self-reliant teams that drive independence and growth.
We wrap up by delving into our collective role in sculpting the future of manufacturing and the importance of STEM education in closing the skills gap. The episode highlights the transformative power of mentorship, hands-on experiences, and the significant response from companies in supporting initiatives that engage young minds. This is more than just an anniversary celebration; it's a call to action for industry veterans and newcomers alike to champion sustainability and mentor the next wave of innovators who will continue to propel the manufacturing industry forward.
Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298
Join the two-year celebration of our podcast as we sit down with the remarkable Liam Hunt, the youthful mastermind behind Ambic Manufacturing. As we raise a toast to growth and innovation, Liam unpacks the art of leadership, his strategy for scaling businesses by striving for autonomy, and the blend of inspiring passion with shrewd management that has characterised his journey. If you're itching to up your leadership game and empower your teams, this is a conversation that stands as a testament to what youthful ambition coupled with strategic thinking can achieve.
Transitioning into the realm of people as the cornerstone of any enterprise, we share tales of aligning goals and harnessing individual strengths to catapult a business to the forefront of its industry. You'll hear how adopting the goal of making oneself redundant isn't just a whimsical ideal, but a concrete strategy for fostering scalability and team autonomy. These insights serve as an arsenal for anyone managing one or multiple ventures, illuminating the path to creating self-reliant teams that drive independence and growth.
We wrap up by delving into our collective role in sculpting the future of manufacturing and the importance of STEM education in closing the skills gap. The episode highlights the transformative power of mentorship, hands-on experiences, and the significant response from companies in supporting initiatives that engage young minds. This is more than just an anniversary celebration; it's a call to action for industry veterans and newcomers alike to champion sustainability and mentor the next wave of innovators who will continue to propel the manufacturing industry forward.
Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Leaders podcast on our two-year anniversary with me, mark Bracknell, managing Director of Theo James recruitment. Today we have a very special episode. We're welcoming on Liam Hunt, who is the owner and founder of Ambig Manufacturing, but also stellar blast, stellar performance, vesper contracts and custom fit campers. I absolutely couldn't wait to have him on the show simply because of that. At the age of 33, he has achieved so much and I was fascinated to interview him and I was fascinated by his answers. At times I had goosebumps of what he was telling me. His journey at such a young age has been unbelievable and you're going to learn so so much.
Speaker 1:He probably had the most comprehensive and well-communicated answer to the first question, as everyone, about being a leader. We talked in detail about that. We talked in detail about what it takes to own multiple businesses at 33, the mindset of someone and actually what he talked about in detail about his trying to make his role redundant within a business. Essentially, to me, he isn't essential to be there day to day and that means he can scale the business. It also means that the tips and advice he gives to anyone listening in any form of managerial role to do exactly the same. So you're going to learn a lot from that and I really want you to listen to that in detail. But not just that. We talked about the culture and we really talked in depth about STEM and it felt like a real privilege to have Liam on the show to what he's doing to really encourage the new generation to get into manufacturing and the businesses he's already got involved, which we talk about in detail.
Speaker 1:So this was a real fascinating episode. It's probably one of my most enjoyable yet. So please, please, subscribe, please, like that would be most appreciative. Please grab a coffee, listen, watch whatever you want to do and let me know what your thoughts are. Take care, enjoy Excellent. Well, welcome to Liam on the Manufacturing Leads podcast. Are we Liam or good?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm good. Thank you, Mark.
Speaker 1:Good man, excellent Right. So first question, same one. Ask everyone that comes on the podcast what does being a leader mean to you?
Speaker 2:Interesting one. I mean, it's obviously quite a broad question. I like it. It's a good, open question.
Speaker 2:I mean, for me, being a leader is actually really important. I didn't actually, until I started thinking about it, realise how important it was to me, but I hold it in higher regard than sort of financial prestige. I think, for me, seeing other people succeed I get more kicks out of that. So going, I suppose, looking at it from a definition point of view, by definition, a leader is sort of someone who inspires passion, and I like to think that I do that. I think it's a tricky one, though, isn't it? Because you see all these memes on LinkedIn, etc. And they paint a picture around being a leader is the right way or the best way to run a company, and being a manager or being a boss is the best way to do it. I have a slightly different thought on that one, and I think somebody who's good in business can be good at both, and I think both have a time and a place. If you like, and I also feel like as well, I don't feel like anyone has the right to call themselves a good leader, because I feel like that's appointed by committee. If you like anyone could be a good manager, because KPIs and you can sort of everything can be recorded and when you're a manager, obviously you're given the role or you earn the role through you know, whether it's experience or proof of you know concept in the past.
Speaker 2:But a leader, again, I think, going back to the fact that it's somebody who inspires passion, I think it's down to the team and whether the team can follow that person. So for me, a good leader is someone who promotes good culture, is somebody who supports staff retention, you know. So somebody who effectively the staff can get behind not just about the wage packet at the end of the day and gets the best out of each individual. So you know who they are, where they work in the business, whatever their role, is somebody who can really maximize efficiency and output from those. But, on the other hand, a good manager, I would say, utilizes targets and KPIs to support growth. I'd say managing outputs through sort of self financing means. So whether it's bonuses, commission structures, you know I think they're still important and people, you know, at the end of the day, people work to earn money, to live their lifestyles, and so I do think that's important as well. But I do feel, like you know, some people might feel like they're just bought in that respect, which is why I think you need to have the balance and also, I would say a good manager needs to be able to make difficult decisions to benefit the majority.
Speaker 2:And I'll expand on that one a little bit because I think for me a good leader might struggle with that. You know, if you, for example, have a member of staff that you know you come across them in work and life, or if you haven't, then obviously you've been very lucky. But you do get negative people and sometimes that negative person resists change, genuinely just isn't interested in the company. It's really difficult and negativity does breed negativity. It takes a physical effort to sort of think positively and optimistically and I feel like sometimes you know one particular negative person, if you like, can have quite a big impact.
Speaker 2:And I think where a leader might struggle, or somebody who's naturally more of a leader than a manager, is making the final decision to say, look, it's not working. They would always see the good in somebody or they would always want to try and get the best out of somebody and almost push that approach, whereas a good manager would just nip it in the bud and be like you would obviously sit there and you would give them feedback and try and you know, try and turn it around. But if the person just isn't willing, potentially be the one that pulls the trigger, if you like. But then on the flip side, you know, I could also see the side where a good manager could be seen, as you know, not really caring more, bothered about results driven and, you know, transactional, and I can't see how that can be negative. So for me, I know it's a little bit more controversial, because you see all these memes where you know you've probably seen it yourself where you have the block and you have the boss or the manager sitting on top pointing forward and then all the people sort of pulling with the ropes and then the same vice versa with the leader pulling from the front. I think there's a time and a place for both and I think both are really important in a business. So for me I think that's probably been my biggest sort of personal growth is that I definitely saw myself as a natural leader in this in the respect that I do.
Speaker 2:I did a lot of sports as a kid, you know I did, I played some captain roles etc. So I was always one for trying to motivate and things like that. But I learned the hard way in business that sometimes you know you do come across people where there are clashes and you can't make it work and you ultimately, you know you have to look after the entire squad. I mean, if I look at right now, I employ about 40 people and realistically I can't sacrifice 39 people for that one person and what they want. You know I have to. Every decision that I make has a as a repercussion. Every decision that I make somebody's not going to be happy with. But the idea is that I try and make sure it's the old analogy of you know 80 20, where you think, well, you know it's at least going to be received well. So sorry, a bit of a long winded answer.
Speaker 2:Well, you know it's something I'm quite passionate about.
Speaker 1:Really, really really granted, communicated each element of that really really well, because it's interesting, because there's so many questions as well which throughout your full answer there, and I always, I always struggle personally with leader, the manager, you know, in an organization. You've kind of answered yourself there Do you think it needs to be one person and you you go into different elements, or do you feel that that is almost an area where you can start to delegate and you can start to play different roles in the business? Would you say?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it's a great question and I think also, as much as I do agree with you, it can be multiple people, definitely think it could be multiple people. Also, it doesn't all need to be. Not everyone needs to be able to do everything. You know, I have managers within Ambic who are more transactional and work very well, you know, in terms of setting targets, looking at results and statistics, and I would say they're more of a management style, and I do have people who are great leaders and I feel like you need both in a team and I think to come across somebody who can do both well is rare personally, but I think you know, I think it is important to have both and I've struggled on both sides of that coin. You know I've had it where I've had leaders in place where I thought I'm really passionate about this, I can get behind this, and they get in behind you know the cultural properties and they get in behind the business. But then you know you might find that I don't know, something as simple as just getting into work on time just kind of becomes a little bit less important and you think, well, hold on. You know there is certain things and I'm not saying that you need, you know from it just needs to be like a clock in, clock out and not trying to create that sort of mentality. But I think you give somebody a little bit and they'll take a bit more and a bit more. And, yes, I think for me it's building a team and, like anything, whether it's a sports team or a business, you've got to try and cover your weaknesses.
Speaker 2:So if you, you know, with me, the most important thing are other people, you know, the most valuable asset to me in any business is the people, and if you have a person and you find a really good role that they slot into, you'll always find that there will be something lacking, and it's because not everybody's perfect. You know, there's the old saying of you'll never find somebody who works as hard for your business as you do. You know that's something I was told quite a lot when I went into business. But again, I don't believe it's true. I think it's difficult to find somebody who will have the sleepless nights and, you know, potentially put as much in in terms of you know, the amount of time. But again, it's about working smarter, it's about working efficiently, it's not about the number of hours you're putting in. So yeah, I think, in answer to your question, I think it's it's. It's again, it's a balance, but it's also it's making sure that it's not all on one person's shoulders as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm massively agree with that because I can resonate with it because I've I've definitely got people in my business that care about the business as much as I do. You're right, they might not worry as much as I do because you know it is my business, but I think if you put the right purpose and values and and bring them into that vision, they do care as much as you do. So I agree, I think it's a. I think that myth needs to be debunked because it then becomes all encompassing on you and you only, which is it's a real pressure in it. I mean, I'm really interested in, I was really excited about this one because I've interviewed some brilliant managers on here, some great leaders. And getting back to your first, the first question as well, I agree with you that I like the committee piece because someone asked me some of the best managers you've dealt with in manufacturing.
Speaker 1:I can think of people based on what other people have said about them. Oh, he's a great manager, I'm now just brilliant because they've worked with so and so and I think that's the real silage that people will remember you from 10, 15 years on. But the bulk of the people I had on here are business leaders, managers not many are entrepreneurs, which is a very different skill set. I own a business but I'm not an entrepreneur. It's a very different skill set to juggle all that, all those plays you are I mean you're you're scattered with different businesses. They might be linked, some of them, but there's a lot going on. Was that a conscious decision for you to do that, or is it just how it's a curve, would you say, because it's a lot, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is. I mean, it's another good question. I mean, for me, I always try and avoid the word on trip and air when people ask me what I do. I just say I make furniture. I think it's a tricky one because I don't like to blow my own trumpet, so to speak. But yeah, I mean it is, it's tricky. But I think the other thing is as well.
Speaker 2:It's all happened so fast. So a lot of it, you know, some of it was born out of necessity. But again, going back to the piece that I just said before, you know people are the most important asset within a business. I think a lot of what I have in terms of the multiple different facets and businesses is the people that have come along, and it's almost like what I've done is, rather than sort of trying to have a map in front of me and saying, right, I want to get from point A to point B, what I'm trying to do is almost create the map by the people and the you know the different people that I have within the team and playing to everybody's strengths. I'm trying to think of an example I can give off the top of my head, but I mean probably one of the best ones.
Speaker 2:I'm probably going a little bit back to front here, but I invested in a company last year. It's a father and son business, fantastic company. I've followed them for a little while. Ironically, they were a customer before I got to know them. It was like, say, following son, the son I got on really well with, with similar age and similar points in our life, and we've spent a bit of time sort of we actually trained together in the gym as well, which is quite nice. We spent a bit of time outside of work and I invested in them last year on the simple fact that, to be honest with you, the guys were looking for growth. They were looking to try what was that next step and what I had in terms of resource, or what I'd built in terms of resource with Ambeck manufacturing and the factory here in Chesley Street, it was almost a win-win. They effectively they could sort of slot straight in. We're already making furniture for bars, restaurants, schools, laboratory equipment for different blue chip companies, but also secondary schools, universities. We make a lot of different bespoke furniture, whether it's wood or metal, and they're effectively making furniture for camper vans which is almost very similar, sort of slotted in perfectly.
Speaker 2:So, again, to answer your question, it's a tricky one, because did I have the intention of having multiple companies by the time I was 33? No, not at all. I think it's just I'm a sucker for seeing an opportunity and sort of grabbing it with both hands, I think. And one of the things actually another good answer to the question, or one that I believe might be quite a good one to give you a bit more of an idea of who I am One thing I'm really good at, or a skill that I've been told I've got, is being able to make myself redundant. So which, when I was younger and when I was obviously at university and I was working part-time, is a really weird one, because, you know, for someone who's not got their own business, why would you want to make yourself redundant?
Speaker 2:Effectively, a lot of people think, oh, I've got to make myself really important and make sure that I'm irreplaceable, whereas my mentality has always been the opposite. My mentality has always been how can I automate this? Or do I really need to spend all this time doing this particular task? And, you know, is there not different ways? And I think that's part and parcel as well of why I've ended up with so many plates to spin is because I sort of jump in and do one thing and I'll do it wholeheartedly, and then I'll take a step back and try and simplify it and I'll try and almost bring people in at that point and just try and get it sort of set up as not an autonomous system. I know that's ideally where you want to end up eventually, but it doesn't happen immediately. But yeah, I think for me, having a skill, so to speak, of being able to make myself redundant is I've then got to look for another job.
Speaker 1:I love that because what you're doing there, you're building skill ability For any business. If you're going to sell a business, for example, they'll look at how important you are in the business and if you're not in the business, can it still run. So you know, I think it's whether you've got the intent or subconsciously or consciously it's a brilliant thing to do, because exactly that, the best feeling in any business whether you're where you own it or you're a leader can I step away for two weeks and it go to shit, or have you got the people in the business can do it, and that's like the asset test, isn't it of any business? So, knowing that, now do you go into any business you get involved in to try and get to that stage then and get all the people to that stage?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I'm only one man, I'm stretched pretty thin as it is, so exactly that it's kind of it's almost trying to have your finger in multiple pies and add value. It's really important that I add value to them. You know I've had opportunities and investment in the past that I've turned down and it's been through. But the point then you know I'm not needed. You know I've had people come to me who really want to work with me and two guys who I got on really, really well with. You know they'll know who they are in the world that they're in. But I kind of put the two of them together. I supported them in terms of their initial work outlet, but they didn't need me. So why do I need to be involved is? You know I'm not doing this out of greed. I'm not doing it out of anything other than sort of a passion, if you like. So yeah, I think. Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1:What you're doing is you're swallowing your ego, aren't you? Because I think some people have that need to feel that they need her on a daily basis, especially with a great feeling to know that you've settled processes, that you're not needers, which is, which is excellent, so you can just carbon copy that every time you go in, which is, I think a lot of people, myself included, think I couldn't get involved in the business, that haven't got the time, etc. Is that? Do you feel, like now you've done it more than once, that you've almost you've got the concepts and the process down so you could keep investing in businesses? Or do you feel you've got a limit as well? Is that a balance?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's it's. That's another good question, because you know it depends on which week you ask me. You know there'll be weeks where you'll sit down and I'll say, yeah, I'm ready for the next one, and then there'll be weeks where I'll come in and I'll be like.
Speaker 2:I've got so much going on. You know, it's just where do I even start? And I think I'm I like to make sure that I'm given, whatever it is that I'm, that I'm involved in 100%. That's the main thing and I think I'll always ask myself the question one do I see potential in it? Absolutely what. Two, can I add value? And I think that's probably where it would be and it would be, it would be dependent on as daft as it sounds, time is a big thing and I'm not saying necessarily in terms of spare time to be involved, as in the time of year, for example.
Speaker 2:You know the guys with the, with the Camp of Anne business. You reached out to me. It was just really good time and you know I need, I knew they needed probably three or four months of my time to kind of get the new product range that they wanted to develop off the line and I had. It was one of the times where or it was through the winter, where ambic typically is a bit slower in terms of trading. So what was? A little bit of everything sort of aligned, if you like, but who knows, who knows what's around the corner. I mean, I've got, obviously, as well as the businesses. I've got things that I've got going on that take up probably more time than the businesses and I know we're going to probably touch on it a little bit later on in the chat. But like the STEM challenge etc. Where those things, you know they sap a lot of time and realistically I'm putting money into it and a lot of time into it and not necessarily expecting anything back, and those are the things where that's more of a labor of love. You know it's not. It's not really. The idea isn't for it to be profitable or, you know, the idea isn't even for it to wash its face. At this stage it is literally to give back. It's hard as well because you know how do you get that across to people, but you know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think, going back to the question, some digress in a little bit. I think for me I can see more on the horizon, but I think, in terms of what I'm quite good at is working under pressure, and I think when I'm backed into a corner, I can come up with some, some good solutions. So I think a lot more, there's a lot more of the day to day running that I am involved with, that I could make myself redundant from and that is the plan. You know I'm in the process of doing that across all, all five companies is to try and get it to the point where you know I'm there if I'm needed. But I'm not necessarily needed every single day.
Speaker 2:It's already become an apparent. I'm not needed as much as I was even this time last year. And I mean, if you go back five years ago, especially with an ambic, I mean I can go on holiday for a couple of weeks and I know for a fact that the guys will keep the place running fine. You know, I know there's certain things that are checking on and certain things that I do which would be missed, but it's not to say that they couldn't be done remotely as well. I'm not saying I'm looking to retire to the Bahamas or anything, but you know, I think it's all possible.
Speaker 1:And I think it's a really refreshing mindset and I think manufacturing traditionally is a traditional, quite old-school type mindset and type industry. As an example, if an operations manager, an operations director, might be listening, thinking I would love to get to a stage where the team were more autonomous process with that, etc. If you were into a business or you were advising a business and perhaps there was loads of bottlenecks there, loads of issues there where staff are overworked, what advice do you think you would give an operations manager to try and almost have that make himself redundant mentality? Do you think there's things that they could do in the next 90 days to start that process? What do you say?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean it's funny because I visit a lot of businesses and I sort of most businesses that I visit. I'll find something and it'll be something where I'll just say something really simple. An example I can probably give is I was in Plastic Furniture Company the week they want to sponsor the event that we're doing and when I was walking around there was one of the bin lids they were doing and it was a double-ended piece and I just sort of said to them, if you made that a little bit wider and then cut it straight down the centre, you could get two out of one rather than having 70% waste. And they sort of looked at each other.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean I would say the advice I would give in that sort of environment, in that position, if you're trying to sort of up your game and almost make a name for yourself, the best wins are the easy ones. I think it's very easy to get overwhelmed. It's very easy to jump in feet first and try and resolve the world in a day, and that's not going to happen, I think. For me. Have a full overview approach and look at everything and I mentioned the 80-20 analogy before, but in a slightly different format. If you've got to put in more than 80% effort for a 20% return, it's not worth it, or not worth it straight away. If there's clearly a lot of visible issues that can be resolved, focus on the ones that give you the best return. So you're putting in a little bit of time and saving, hopefully, hours worth of work. That's the key thing. So I would say in any business it would be sort of taking a step back, I mean one of the things. It's interesting.
Speaker 2:So what I did, how did I do it? Within Ambic? So I came into Ambic and I was employed originally. So before buying the company I was employed by Ambic, as I suppose you could call me operations manager or operations director or whatever. I think I came in as production manager was the specific title originally, but that quite quickly went to work manager and what I did was. So I was asked to be introduced, not as everyone's manager.
Speaker 2:First I wanted to come in. I wanted to go in not as like undercover boss, so to speak, but I wanted to come in and kind of get a feel for the place, get a feel for the culture, which you can't do if you're seen as the manager. You can't do that and I gave myself a bit of a challenge. I looked at one of the products that they were struggling with, one of the ones that weren't massively profitable, and I basically set myself up on a bench and I manufactured. Well, I designed and manufactured I think it was a filing cabinet from memory with steel draws, because they were trying to get the cost the cost of the draws in a cabinet is probably the largest issue, if you like to try and get that cost down and be more cost effective. So we were trying to get laser cut steel draw boxes and I just sat there and I was working alongside people. Everyone just assumed I'd come in as a joiner and I was quite happy with that and I was sitting there and working.
Speaker 2:But what I did in that time was I got an opportunity to one prove myself to the staff that I'm not just coming in, because I think the other issue that I've always had and you know I might pick on it later on is my age has always worked against me, because I've been a lot younger in quite a senior position. People have always had preconceived ideas, so the easiest and quickest way that I can win people on side has always been to prove that I'm more than capable of doing the job first. So that's what I did and I jumped in and I learned a lot of things very fast. And then I'll be honest with you. I realized, you know, without sounding disrespectful, you know there was a lot of good but there was a lot of bad. You know, I think, as you've hit the nail on the head, you know, manufacturers are very old art, it's a dying trade. And you know, in the UK, I think, kids generally forget that manufacturing is even done in the UK. They just think everything's made in China or East in Europe. And you know it's a shame, it's sad but it is true. It's our cake in this country and it's a difficult one. And because of that, obviously skills shortages etc. Follow on from that.
Speaker 2:But I think for me to be able to improve a process or to be able to improve a business, you've got to know all of the weaknesses. You've got to be able to see everything, water and all. And then it's a lot of just sitting down but also talking. You know talking and communicating. You're one person. If you're an operations manager and you're, let's say, you're responsible for 20 members of staff as a number. Every single one of those 20 people will already know what the issues are. You don't need to come in and come up with all those answers, and realistically as well. What's the harm in those guys taking credit for them? You know, and taking credit for resolving them. You don't need to be the person, be the knight in shining armor. You don't need to be the guy that's coming in and fixing everyone's problems.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's about creating a team mentality and creating a team environment, because that's one of the hardest things, especially if you're a new.
Speaker 2:You know, if you're an operations director and you've worked your way up to the position, you probably have a lot of respect from the staff already.
Speaker 2:If you're somebody who's coming into a new business as an operations manager, I think the most important thing before you try and fix any problems is to get the team on side.
Speaker 2:You know, even if you look at it I've mentioned the 80-20 before I will sort of contradict myself slightly in the sense of if there's something that all of the team need addressing and it might not necessarily give you the same return as something you've got in your mind but sometimes those easy wins, first to get the team on side and then I think the more, the more people you've got involved and the more you can, sort of because culture is a big thing, you know, and talk about 80-20 analogy Culture is probably one of the more difficult things to change, but also the one where you see the biggest results. You know, I mentioned staff retention before, which I do think is very important to have staff that feel secure in the job but also know what they do and, you know, directed correctly and have good leadership in place. I think there's a lot to be said for that, if that makes sense. I don't know if that kind of answers your question.
Speaker 1:It does. It's fascinating, it really is, and kind of, and there's so many questions there. But I want to get you straight back to what you talked about before, which is it links in the STEM stuff, because most people tend to give back, probably when they're five years from retirement. Realistically, you know I don't know what they're saying they're saying something about training 30s, learning 40s, give back in 50s, something like that. But most people get that stage where they're probably a little more settled in the job and they want to start giving back. You know you're the age you are now. You know 33 and 33 and you're already giving back to something, like you said, which actually probably has an impact on your day to day job. You know, probably in terms of, you know you could probably be more successful without that, but you're still doing it and it's a label of, but it's unbelievably important.
Speaker 1:It's something I'm really passionate about as well. I think you hit the nail on the head. Manufacturing it's been a problem for years the skills gap and it's only getting worse and I think it's simply because we're not producing enough good skill people, because there's not enough awareness about how great the industry is and it's starting to change, thankfully, but it were. You know we're really against it, and it hasn't been the case for the last five years. Is it something you've always been quite interested in, or how did that come about? What do you say?
Speaker 2:I would say it came about because I've got slightly different perspective on the manufacturing industry and when it comes to kids, mainly because Ambeck in the early days manufactured school furniture and that made up about 80, 90% of the turnover. So we had first hand sort of experience, working directly with schools. We knew what schools wanted. I think the guy who owned Ambeck before myself was very fortunate in the fact that there was a big boom. Schools had a bit of money they were investing. The government was putting money into schools to try and push certain criteria around the time when computers were coming in, for example. So they needed computer trolleys and there was money flying around for that to try and improve the curriculum so that computers were included in that.
Speaker 2:I know I'm going back. It's easy, I'm going back before my time and for me I know some of my wife's a teacher. She's been a teacher or she was a teacher. She's joined the business last year actually, but she was a teacher for a lot of years, trained to be a teacher. We met each other at university and for me I think there's a lot to be said about schools.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of people who have a lot of things to say about teachers and teaching specifically. I think they're under a lot of scrutiny. I think they are slightly underpaid for what they do and what they put up with but that's a political chat for another day. I've got a lot of respect for people in the education system and I do feel like as a country, we are failing them. I'm not going to go into, obviously, political thoughts and all the rest of it, but I do feel like if you look at schools nowadays, the budgets they have just aren't there. And me, as a business owner, I feel a responsibility.
Speaker 2:Yes, you could call it the skills gap. I'm always looking for good staff and looking for a joiner or looking for a fabricator or a welder or someone who can paint correctly or a powder coat and someone experienced in powder coat and industry. It's very rare to come across somebody who's younger who has that sort of passion and has a bit of experience. And I think that all does stem from the fact that kids aren't really shown from a young age the different career paths that they can have, and I don't blame the schools for that. At the end of the day, they stretch thin enough. As it is, they don't have huge budgets to work to. I know they get careers advisors in schools and I'm not apologies if there's anyone who's listening who is a careers advisor. It's a great job. But again, even a careers advisor only really has limited knowledge in different areas or they'll specialize in one particular area, and I think it's really important that people like myself, regardless of age, get in front of these kids and show them what else is out there.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's so many jobs out there that are really well paid, but yet you go to school and the mentality is you need to go to university, you need to try and train to be a doctor or a lawyer, and if that doesn't work, then at least you've got good grades of math so you might be able to come something else. And I feel like that's the sort of mentality. And obviously you've got the people who want to be a singer and a YouTube star and all the rest of it, which obviously small percentage make it and do really well, but the vast majority don't. It's the same with becoming a football or anything like that. It's obviously the odds are stacked against you and I don't think there's any harm in having a plan B, and I think plan B kids just need to know that there's other opportunities out there. One of the most exciting and rewarding things or positions that I've been in is after I've stood in front of a classroom full of kids and I've done a STEM day with them and at the end they're saying, oh, my dream job's to work for Ambic. And you just think you know just a small company. There's other companies that are far more exciting than my company, but it's just amazing to hear it.
Speaker 2:But what we did was we pitched it so that they met the staff. You know whether it was in person. So I took about four or five of the team with me so they met, you know, shop floor manager. They met purchase manager. They sat in there then they talked about what their role is. What do they do? You know what was the day in the life of a purchase manager look like? And we also interviewed some of the staff. So we obviously couldn't take the whole factory with us. So we interviewed some of the staff and they met some of them via video recordings and they had to answer questions. Like you know, what does this person use in their job role? What does a day in their life look like?
Speaker 2:And I think the kids kind of quite quickly realized that actually, you know, there's quite a lot of exciting things you can do in manufacturing especially, there's loads of things and even if, as daft as it sounds, if someone comes into somewhere, especially like Ambic, where we're multi-headed and we've got all these different areas, cnc machines etc. Somebody can come in with a mindset of I want to do this specifically, but then get in the door and think, actually, you know, what is this? This is quite interesting and this has piqued my interest and I can learn from you know the fantastic people around us, and I think that's to answer your question why, why have I been given back? I think I just feel like I have to. I feel like it's something we should all do. If we're in a privileged position, where and I don't mean privileged as in financially privileged, I just mean privileged, as in the knowledge that we've got I just think it's important to share. You know I can't remember who quoted it, but it costs nothing to share the knowledge that we've gained. And I think for me, if I can stand in front of a class I mean I've actually got a careers talk, I think it's tomorrow at a school, but you know, if I can at least show kids that there's other career paths out there and get them excited about something that you know is potentially really realistic. It would have helped me. You know, I didn't I mean I still don't know what I want to do when I grow big.
Speaker 2:But you know, I think at school I was really good at maths and I was pretty good at physics and two subjects that are. You know, I'm very black and white. I struggled with biology and chemistry just because you know, you have to learn the rules and the regulations and for me, I like to have a deeper understanding and with maths there's always one answer and it can kind of be derived and I think that's why I've always been reasonably good at those. And but I didn't realize that you know, being good at maths and being good at physics made you potentially a good engineer. And it was only really when I went to university and I went to study, my original plan was to study motorsport and my dad talked me out of it. Good old dad, probably good advice. He told me to go more into the automotive route.
Speaker 2:But I think if I was at school and if I had somebody, a career's advisor, if I had a couple of companies that would come in and just sort of highlight these different roles that are available. You know, because as kids it's staffed with the internet, it should all be there, but it's just not. You know, you go on YouTube, you go on to the you've got all these shorts now as well and it's just that little dances and all the rest of it. I know there's some good stuff in there, but it's clouded by so much rubbish that I don't know. I just feel like. You know it's a tricky one, isn't it? But I think that's where the passion comes from.
Speaker 1:Exactly the algorithm is. Literally, you think about how social media works. Now it's to keep you watching, and we tend to watch the crap rather than the education stuff. And then that's all the watching. It just pumps and pumps, it's just a constant stream of it. And look, I love everything you said to me. I goosebumps at one point. You know the how passionate you were talking about it and I completely agree. So just for this is your podcast, not mine.
Speaker 1:But just from context that I was a before of recruitment after university for a year I was a trained to be a creativeizer and I didn't like it because I felt I was pushing against the system and it was impossible to push against. And again, it wasn't necessarily the school, the school's fault or the critical, whoever it was. I think a lot of it is sold out to government, whatever, but it's just, it was impossible and it was exactly that. If you get certain grades, tell people to go to university. If you don't get a grade, well, you can look at this, maybe look at apprenticeship. It wasn't. You know apprenticeship as a good example. It was never celebrated. There's something that can be brilliant. It was almost well. If you don't get that, there's always. This is a backup Instead of this is what you can.
Speaker 1:We all know the salaries and the wages now around engineers. You've got maintenance engineers in 50, 60 grand. You know like unbelievable cash at 23, 24 years old. But I just don't think that's really talked about yet. My wife's a teacher, primary school, and when I ask her what do you have manufacturers come in, she's like I kind of said nothing about the budget for it and they're only six and seven. But I'm like no, that's the age, that's the. My lads four and five and he loves little robots and stuff and he was to walk and he loved it. So that is the age.
Speaker 1:I think what you're doing is is is unbelievable. It sounds like you've got some great people involved. I know some of the saw Chris and and rust off a few people. It sounds like you've got a nice core involved. Is that right? Apologies for interrupting this podcast for a very quick 30 second picture of my business. Theo James are a specialist in manufacturing and engineering recruitment search firm based in Seaham in the Northeast. If you're looking for any staff or new opportunity yourself from a semi-skilled level, write the way up to C-suite executive and please get in touch. We have a specialist consultant in each discipline ready to help. I'm extremely proud of what we've built over the years and I'd love to extend that service out to you. Thank you, enjoy the podcast.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, I mean, I can shout them out if you want, I've got a list of kids on all this anyone.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, no, we've got the new cast of Eagles involved to the basketball team. They do a little bit in STEM. It's great having them involved. They were involved last year as well. We've got solid solutions, the solid work reseller who are local. I actually worked for them out of university. So I've got, you know, get on really well with the guys there Trust Red. We've got Ford Aerospace, we've got Responsive Engineering, we've got Plastic Furniture Company, newcastle United Foundation, nissan, we've got Industrial and Marine Hydraulics and we've got Spitfire.
Speaker 2:I'll be honest, I was inundated with people who wanted to be involved in these companies, all pushed pretty hard and, you know, I think, with them all being in the manufacturing space as well, and obviously some of them are huge, you know, far, far bigger than the companies I have. But I think having, I think for me the idea of this wasn't, it wasn't just about Ambic, you know, and to be able to go into schools. I mean, there's talks at the moment about potentially looking at doing an event and if we do an event, I could have all these companies with stands there and the kids don't just need to learn about furniture. You know there'll be some kids who will get really excited about Nissan and you know cars specifically. I'm a you know huge petrolhead myself, and obviously some of the other companies in there as well.
Speaker 2:I mean responsive engineer make tanks. I mean, you know, as a six, seven year old boy or girl, you know what's not exciting about the thought of you know a tank. So yeah, I mean some amazing names, genuinely humbled by the response. It's been phenomenal and for me, it just shows to me that the STEM challenge is going to far outgrow you know what I'd ever envisioned it in the years to come, because I mean, we're on year two. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:100% and you're right, exactly right what you said. It shouldn't come directly from a place that we just need to adjust, just the skills gap, it comes in place that people are in a position of power and, just like environmental sustainability, we've got to look after the next generation and that's to inspire them by by what we do and to lift the bonnet of this industry, because UK has been a powerhouse for decades but it feels like it's slipping, and it's, but it's not dead yet. You know, we can still change it. It's just in the Northeast. How much amazing stuff is happening in the Northeast alone. It's immense, isn't it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, so look, I think what you're doing is amazing. Anyway, I can get involved. I'd love to do you touch briefly start on cultures. One of the answers was the lead and Easter, the one that drives the culture, which I completely agree with and I think that's probably some of the change over probably the last 10, 15 years that's been a big part of it Was that you talk about getting into business. Was that something you've always been consciously aware of, or has that been apparent that you've needed to change culture over time? If you look at manufacturing as an example, yeah, it's, I mean, good question.
Speaker 2:I think it's something that becomes more apparent, especially when I mean in manufacturing specifically, I think it's more difficult. And I think it's more difficult because so other businesses that I've been exposed to, I suppose, like if I look at the Blue Chip Company, for example, I worked at B&Q whilst I was at school and also at university and culture was always I don't know because it was such a big company. Obviously the culture, big company culture is very different to a smaller company. I think, specifically in manufacturing, I think it's just maybe it's because you've got so many different generations of people in one space, but I found Ambix specifically. So I think I'm going to kind of answer the question.
Speaker 2:But in a roundabout way, there's when you start a company up, you've got kind of full control over things like the culture. I'm saying full control in the early days. Obviously, as you grow and as you add more people in, it's trying to maintain the culture is really important. But I think when you buy a company, that's where it's really tricky. So my experience and where it kind of presented itself to me as a bigger, I wouldn't say issue, but as a bigger I don't know how I'm trying to word it. Something that it was really important was when I bought Ambic and obviously at the time. So I worked for Ambic for I think was it two or maybe three years before finally purchasing the business from the previous owner In that time. So I had a bit of time to sort of build up the respect of the staff and build a bit of a team with me, and they all had my back 110%, which I'm forever grateful for, and I think without them I wouldn't have pushed, but also I wouldn't have been interested in buying the company had it not been for the people that were there.
Speaker 2:But at the same time you have smaller numbers of people who were negatively impacting the culture and it does cause problems the easiest way. I mean I've referred to it in the past and I hope I don't offend anybody, but I've referred to it in the past a little bit like a classroom or like a crush, because even though the vast majority in manufacturing is blokes, it's a shame. It'd be nice if it was more balanced, but the truth of the matter is especially in joinery. For me the experience has been it's been heavily male biased and it is difficult Having people of very different backgrounds all in one space. They're not all going to get along, but I do get it. I get people aren't always going to want to go out for a beer with their work colleagues, for example. It's tricky, though it is tricky to try and get it to a point where everything sort of merges and works as a well oiled machine.
Speaker 2:So I think that's where and answer your question where or when did it become more apparent to me? I think when I bought a multimillion pound business. That's when, because I think it's something I've always been aware of, is important, something I've always understood and thought would be important, mainly from our sporting background, without the wrong, with the wrong culture, I do feel like you've got to win up here before you can win on the court or the pitch, or I do believe in that, and I think yeah, I think the acquisition. And then, looking at a culture that somebody else has developed, that's where I really thought oh, this isn't as easy as I thought, and you can't just go in and just, I'm not saying this was the intention, because it never was, but you can't just go in and just tell everybody right, I'm sorry I'm starting again, because then what have you bought at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:But it is tricky because, especially when there's a lot of people, you might think one area or one particular group is an issue and feel like you can resolve that, but then find actually it's almost been smoke and mirrors and there's something going on over it. Yeah, I think one of the hardest challenges I've had without a shadow, without, is adapting a new culture in a business that's ran for 40 years without a shadow, without. It's definitely been one of the hardest things I've ever done.
Speaker 1:Love that, mate. I always have a guest. Well, I normally have a guest question. I normally forget to ask the last guest, and I did. I forgot to ask the last guest, so I'm going to make up a question. I thought I think he will ask you. So my last guest was Tim Williams, who's the MD of a we call Gojo thermal to make a heat in ground source pumps. So it's all about sustainability renewables. So I feel you might have asked your question on this area, so I'm going to ask you and put my Tim Williams head on sustainability renewables, do you think the mindset has shifted from two years ago to now within manufacturing? What do you say?
Speaker 2:I mean, I definitely think it shifted. Yeah, I think it's still a lot more work to do without a shadow, without, but I definitely think it shifted. I feel like you know, I think it's had to move with the times, though, hasn't it? I think, when you think about it, one of the things I'm guilty of and I would say 99% of other manufacturing businesses guilty of, is actually shouting about what they do. There's a lot of manufacturers, as you've already rightfully said. There's loads of great companies, especially in the northeast of England. There's so many great companies. We're just not very good at showing people what we do. You know, I see people all the time buying, you know, in bulk from China, and I've got nothing against stuff that's manufactured in China at all. But you know, quality can vary hugely, and sometimes the logistical cost of getting something from overseas is should outweigh you know, when it comes to the quality. So, yeah, I think we're having to change and I think it's difficult. Another thing is potentially that a lot of manufacturing businesses there's not many people that I come across, especially manufacturing that are a similar age to me, and what reason that is I'm not fully aware. Maybe it's just the mindset of you know manufacturing is almost a dying trade but I feel like it does need a bit of an injection of life. I feel like there's lots of change we're having to deal with.
Speaker 2:You know you mentioned the MD that was on before, obviously in sustainability. I'm sure I give you some good, good thoughts and points on sustainability, but that is a really good area that manufacturers have to change in. You know I mean the recent electric and gas crisis. A lot of companies I know went bust because they physically couldn't afford to. You know I mean the factory that I've got here in Chesty streets, 33,000 square foot, so you can imagine the electricity bills and the gas bills aren't cheap. I mean it's part of the reason why we invested a quarter of a million pounds in solar panels last year to try and maintain and be competitive and, you know, be strategic in what we're doing, as well as obviously be green and try, and you know it is an area that people are more and more aware of. So I think you know sustainability is a big thing that's helped shift the mindset of manufacturing. I think you know the old.
Speaker 2:Your first question is a great one in terms of you know how, because I think everyone will have a different answer to what they think a leader and a manager is and I think, realistically, that has helped the shift. You know what are the? I think there's there's there's lots of different. I mean, obviously there's there's daft things like cars. You know cars have come on a long way over. You know short period of time and transport and getting goods to and from locations and but I think, yeah, I think, I think for me there's a lot more we need to do, but I think the space that we need to do it in is I know we've mentioned it a few times and I don't want to sound like a broken record but it is that skills, that skills shortage, I think, realistically, you know it is getting out there to the younger kids.
Speaker 2:So we're we're opening the STEM challenge up from just primary school kids, which we did last year, to year nine kids, which is the sort of age where, effectively, they they're sort of starting to pick their options. But you're exactly right and when you say I think it's important to instill it from a younger age because, realistically, there's no good in going to somebody when they're about to choose their options or, by the way, there's these options, you know, or or. By the way, if you want to be this, you need to pick X, y and Z. I think it's important that from a younger age, you capture their imagination and their attention. You know, I mean, I've got a point on that as well, actually, because one of the things that I would share is we did a bit of a bit of a what do you call it study. It's not really a study as such, but we don't realize how much we're trained to think in a certain way, and so I did it.
Speaker 2:I did a bit of a challenge. So I've got, I got the draft, the designing team downstairs, I got them all to design a new product for the catalogue for for Ambeck, and it was a test, more than anything else. It wasn't. I wasn't really too much interested in the outputs, but I gave them really loose rules. It was basically a blank sheet of paper and, interestingly, all of the ideas that came back were very similar, or it was an existing product with a slight tweak. You know it was almost like I don't know. It just wasn't, as it wasn't what I was expecting.
Speaker 2:But then, when we did this challenge with the primary school kids because they're the age where you know there's no filter, they just they. You know, yeah, there's no restrictions. Some of the ideas you get back are phenomenal, like honestly phenomenal. We got some great ideas with those. There's two or three submissions last year where I thought, well, we could literally put that straight into a catalog and that could become a product next year, because it's fantastic and that's from kids that are aged, you know, I mean with the year fours, year fives, year sixes. So you're talking, you know, really young kids, but they've got these fantastic energies and ideas and every idea was totally different. You know, every single submission we got there was very, there was loads of variety and I think it's just mad to think that we are sort of trained to think in a certain way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we live ourselves and see the problems instead of the opportunities, don't we?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, and I think that's you know, in manufacturing. I think that's one of the one of the areas that we need to do is sort of open our eyes a little bit. You know, stop looking at what everybody else is doing. You know? I think so. David Broome. I don't know if you know the guy or not, but one thing that he's said that's really captured my imagination recently. He just mentioned that you know he's doing a lot of work with companies in America and over in America, especially in, I think it's the roofing industry works in, but it's really collaborative.
Speaker 2:So you've got companies that are effectively in the UK, would be competing directly with each other, so that you know the product range is very similar. There might be slight differences, but they all work together. They all get the heads together to improve as a unison, so that the whole. You know the, then the people that benefit are the end clients and you know the company, the company's as a whole. The country is seeing a lot of development, whereas in the UK I think it's still quite old fashioned in terms of it's like right gloves are off, type of thing. We've got to win this contract, we need to pay wages, and I feel like, you know, one of the things that I love about this STEM challenge is it's creating a lot of collaboration.
Speaker 2:So, you know, I've got all these companies here which, to be honest, none of them none of them actually compete with with ambic at all, but they're all manufacturers and we're all manufacturing a physical item, and I think that's one thing that, in terms of what do we need to do, moving forward is one.
Speaker 2:I do believe we need to give back a little bit more in terms of our time and in terms of our knowledge to sort of highlight the different rules that are available. But I think the second thing is we need to collaborate more. You know, I feel like there's a lot of I don't do much networking on the simple fact that when I've been to networking, events is very much you sit in a room and then there's a lot of sales people trying to sell things, which I know is important. Everyone's got to try and get their product across and everyone thinks they've got the latest and greatest product, and you know, look sitting from the other side of the chair. You know you've got to sort of value your time, but I do. I just think there's so much more progress could be made if just more was shared and we said completely agree, and I think postcode, I've definitely seen more of it.
Speaker 1:I completely agree. I think there's people lifting the bonnets up and collaborating rather than rolling competition together where it's not the case. Not the case. I love that, mate. I've got some quick fire questions for you that you won't have seen. First, who comes to your mind? Who's the best manager you've ever had and why?
Speaker 2:Best manager. So one of the best managers, I would say. And this is Mad, and if the guy ever he is this, we'll be thinking what. So there's a guy in B&Q called Stephen Blair and he was a regional director and at the time I think I was just a part-time member of staff and I didn't have a huge amount to deal with him. But I've met him on a few occasions and I think for me the reason why I was one of the best managers I've personally ever worked for was because he had as much time for me and for my future as he did for the store managers that were obviously the ones that were helping him hit his targets and he sort of saw the benefit in valuing and adding time into me.
Speaker 2:And it got to the point where when I then became a manager, I was only a manager of an area within B&Q, like a trading manager rather than a store manager, and he would come in and he would just sort of ask how I was doing and what you know, ask for a bit of an update etc.
Speaker 2:And I think for me he had a huge impact on me because he was a relatively young chap himself. You know, he was in a directors position in B&Q and he, I think, probably going to get shot down for this. I'm pretty sure he said to me Liam, if you keep going the way you're going, you will definitely be a director of B&Q at some point, if that is what you want to do. And I think at the time, you know, I was a relatively young lad I think I was still at university at the time so I hadn't really thought too much about career because at the time it was just about learning and looking back. I think it was that self-confidence that he helped instill in me. So I'm going to give him the best manager title.
Speaker 1:I love that, I love that. And another part you've taken that on, which I think is the best thing, you've taken a lesson, best influence from either business or sporting world, anyone sort of outside of the working world, would you say.
Speaker 2:Outside of the working world.
Speaker 1:It could be business, maybe a sportsperson, anyone and famous.
Speaker 2:It's a tricky one because there's quite a few to who outside Probably not go for someone famous, because I don't really. So I used to have a basketball coach that actually the guy who got me into basketball, a guy called Lee Davies, and as a kid I looked up to the guy massively. You know he wasn't particularly tall was a fantastic basketball player. I don't actually know how well he played in terms of in the actual game itself, but as a coach when we were playing he was always a really, really talent guy and, yeah, I think his dedication and passion for the sport was immense. So he got me into it. When I was in, I think, yes, seven at school, he came and did some, some coaching sessions with the kids and got the kids into it.
Speaker 2:And it's really interesting because our paths have crossed recently and so I've got my eldest son. So I've got two sons One is five months old and one is three years old, and my three year old son had started taking him to little ballers and Lee's wife who runs it, so I bumped into him. It was. That was really nice. So, yeah, I think for the outside of the business world, I just I think for anybody, I think anybody can do anything in any role that you are passionate about. You just have to have that initial spark, that passion, and I feel like you know you can make great things out of anything, and I think that's one thing that Lee's done. He's always worked in the basketball, in and around the basketball and world, and obviously he's made a thing of it, made some of his businesses alongside his wife, except run.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hats off to the guy Love it Three words that make up a good leader. What do you say?
Speaker 2:Three words that make up a good leader. So it's got to be inspirational, it's got to be passionate. I'm going to put empathetic in there as well, so I think you have to be aware of your sort of emotions, yep, and other people's emotions.
Speaker 1:And just finally, best book or your book you've ever read, listened to podcasts anything which is helped you.
Speaker 2:You know I get recommended so many books and it's just having the time to get through them all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't read them. Yes, see him.
Speaker 2:I've got three that have been recommended. They're amazing and I've not even read them. I'm ashamed to admit it. But, jody's, I've actually started listening to Stephen Bartlett's podcast that area of a CEO and I don't follow it religiously, I don't listen to everyone that he announces, but I like to get in the gym and do a little bit of cardio, so do a little bit of fasted cardio.
Speaker 2:I haven't done it for a little while, like but, and I used to just listen to his podcast. I was always doing that. So there's occasionally you get episodes where you'll start by saying this is one you're really, really, really excited about and this is one you really can't miss. And I try and look out for one of those ones. Or I look for somebody who I'm interested in. You know, there's a lot of famous people and things that I'm not massively interested in, all that type of stuff. But there was one particular guy and I can't remember his name, I will find out, I'll let you know but he was a marketing manager and he did a lot of work with Apple and, yes, I find it, yeah, and that was a fantastic episode. That was really really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's probably my favourite and the classmate and just in terms of fans, next five years I imagine quite a lot. Next few years few exciting things on the horizon Now imagine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the goals to growth. You know the goal, the goal and the ambition. Now I've spent the last five years creating the foundations for a business that hopefully will create a platform to really thrive. It's been tricky, it's taken longer than I thought. You know quite an impatient guy and I thought the plan originally when I bought ambic was to grow it immediately, which I did. We doubled the turnover, I think it was within one year we doubled the turnover but quite quickly realized there was, you know, cracks at the seams. We became busy fools. As much as profit doubled Sorry, as much as turnover doubled, profit didn't, and I think you know turnover for vanity, profit for sanity and all the rest of that we sort of took a, took a step back and I think the plan now is to is to sort of grow that now, Now that we've sort of got some of the more fundamentals tied up. So grow, grow in all senses of the word, so growing, growing revenue and turnover and profit, but also grow in terms of, you know, headcount and grow in terms of the number of markets we're in.
Speaker 2:And I've got a couple of announcements which I will be making later this year, which add ons or bolt ons, if you like to, to the ambic platform and the ambic product range, which are quite exciting. So those, those will hopefully be interesting because it's a different client base. So everything we've done in ambic has always been business to business. We've got a couple of ideas that have been in the brewing now for probably about three, four years now bit of work in the background, but they'll be. That platform will be getting launched, hopefully in the next couple of months. I think the plan is to get it at the end of March and that's going to be directly to end user as well. So there might be some, some products on there to keep your eyes out for.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I think just 2024 for me is the era growth, and I mean one of the areas that I'm hoping to grow is doing exactly this mark is put myself out my comfort zone. You know I don't that this is the first time I've ever done a podcast. You know, obviously, listen to Steve Bartlett's brother and Steve Bartlett's podcast and maybe he's a couple of formula one podcasts. I don't really know much about them and I apologize, I've not listened to any of your prior ones. I really had the intention of just time really took it to go from there Is there.
Speaker 2:So I think I think for me, I'm just, I'm really going to try and, you know, push myself out my comfort zone. I'm doing this with you. I'm on a panel of judges for North Inspire I think it's next Wednesday at Ramside Hall. I'm doing a couple of careers days at schools. I'm just trying to get myself out there in front of people and raise the awareness of, obviously, the fantastic people here at Ambic.
Speaker 1:Lovely and look, it's been an absolute pleasure. And look what you've achieved. I don't, I don't, I don't want to send some patronizing family at five, six years old. You know, what you've achieved at your age is unbelievable to someone achieve at any age. What you achieve is fantastic, but you are a real inspiration to any leader, particularly young leaders, and actually the way you've done it and the way you communicate today people can take so much from, because it's just it's it's not even some people I think some people come on, go. It's just about working hard, it's working smart, but it's the mentality you've you've got, it's the vision you've got and actually, more impressive, it's the, it's the purpose that drives you, which I think is amazing and, like I said before, the stuff you're doing is STEM, is phenomenal. It's actually making a difference and and you know, thank you for that, because I think that's brilliant but so many lessons for people in this episode there really is, and I really appreciate you coming on, and so thank you so much mate.
Speaker 2:No, thank you. It's been a pleasure Follow me.