Discover the heartbeat of empathetic leadership with insightful Jonathan Phillips, Manufacturing Director at Gestamp Talent. As we sit down together, Jonathan unveils how the automotive manufacturing industry has shifted gears towards a management style that values empathy, teamwork, and a deep understanding of the human element.
Our conversation promises to reveal the critical components of upholding a 75-year company legacy while navigating through the trials of modern-day leadership, from employee well-being and work-life balance to the essential role of apprenticeship programs in sustaining industry growth.
Embark on a journey through the evolution of management styles where Jonathan and I dissect the transformation from autocratic rule to a culture of support and mutual respect. As we traverse the rich history of workplace dynamics, we unpack the pandemic's influence on prioritizing personal responsibilities and the newfound corporate emphasis on flexibility and family time. Delving into the impact of electric vehicles and automation, we discuss how industry leaders must remain agile and forward-thinking to keep pace with the rapid changes defining the future of automotive manufacturing.
Wrapping up our enlightening session, the focus shifts to the personal tales of leadership that have shaped Jonathan's philosophy. From the unforgettable integrity of Bobby Robson to the liberating mentorship of ex managers, we explore the diverse paths to leadership excellence. So, let's raise a toast to the resilience of the manufacturing industry and the leaders steering its course; join us for a thought-provoking episode that celebrates the authenticity and adaptability at the core of successful leadership.
Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298
Discover the heartbeat of empathetic leadership with insightful Jonathan Phillips, Manufacturing Director at Gestamp Talent. As we sit down together, Jonathan unveils how the automotive manufacturing industry has shifted gears towards a management style that values empathy, teamwork, and a deep understanding of the human element.
Our conversation promises to reveal the critical components of upholding a 75-year company legacy while navigating through the trials of modern-day leadership, from employee well-being and work-life balance to the essential role of apprenticeship programs in sustaining industry growth.
Embark on a journey through the evolution of management styles where Jonathan and I dissect the transformation from autocratic rule to a culture of support and mutual respect. As we traverse the rich history of workplace dynamics, we unpack the pandemic's influence on prioritizing personal responsibilities and the newfound corporate emphasis on flexibility and family time. Delving into the impact of electric vehicles and automation, we discuss how industry leaders must remain agile and forward-thinking to keep pace with the rapid changes defining the future of automotive manufacturing.
Wrapping up our enlightening session, the focus shifts to the personal tales of leadership that have shaped Jonathan's philosophy. From the unforgettable integrity of Bobby Robson to the liberating mentorship of ex managers, we explore the diverse paths to leadership excellence. So, let's raise a toast to the resilience of the manufacturing industry and the leaders steering its course; join us for a thought-provoking episode that celebrates the authenticity and adaptability at the core of successful leadership.
Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298
Hello and welcome to another episode of the manufacturing news podcast with me, mark Brangnell, my director of the James recruitment. What's it like to be the plant director of an automotive manufacturer? It's been going for 75 years. Well, in today's episode we found out John Phillips is the manufacturing director of custom talent, with 1000 please, based in New Naikyli. I love this episode. I couldn't wait to get Jonathan O's very excited by it. They did not disappoint.
Speaker 1:We're talking depths about leadership. We use word like empathy, safety, understanding people Now words I now hear great leaders talk about, which has definitely changed from many years ago. You can learn a lot of lessons about leadership in this episode. Before we talk in depth about manufacturing, about automotive or the transition now to electric vehicles and sustainability, we're talking depth about how you keep people happy, content and thriving in a post COVID era where things have definitely changed. So, again, something you're going to be able to pick up and implement today and no more. What you're going to hear is just an empathetic and brilliant leader, someone who you're going to be inspired by.
Speaker 1:So please, get yourself a coffee, listen, watch whatever you prefer to do, and that would be honored if you would mind liking, subscribing, rating the show and obviously we'll help you continue to get great guests like Jonathan. Thank you very much. Enjoy the episode. Excellent. We're welcome to Jonathan Phillips on the Manufacturing Leaders podcast. I must say sorry in advance. I am recovering from the dreaded man flu, so apologies, I will speak a lot less and ask more questions, but welcome, jonathan. This is a long time coming. I know we'll try to make this happen for a number of months, but we made it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did eventually. Thank you for the offer, mark, and I'm delighted to be here. Hopefully I've got some interesting things to be able to share with you and give you some information that people might be able to take and use. Yeah, can't wait, mate, we're looking for this one.
Speaker 1:So same question asked everyone what does it mean to you to be a leader?
Speaker 2:A responsibility, I guess, and a feeling of responsibility for the people who work within the organisation and the business. The important thing for me is that we provide some level of sustainability, some level of continuity, so that the people who work here fail, that they are safe, secure and have a job that they can rely on. So being a leader comes with it for me a lot of responsibility. That's what it means to me. Ultimately, the people who work in the organisation.
Speaker 1:I really like that and actually when the words used there I think it's almost like an underrated word and someone mentioned it a while ago on here about safety, about that feeling of being safe, because it's not people don't know. We mentioned that, they mentioned, and obviously links in with stability in that piece. But I think in your own job as a leader or an operative or whatever you are, that feeling of just feeling safe is really important. I think.
Speaker 2:It is important and it's difficult to achieve that We've got a world that's very changeable, not a lot of stability in it. If you read too much of the news, you can feel a little bit insecure. But yes, in terms of my role as a leader, ultimately I want people to feel that they have a role that's valued, a role that's appreciated, and that within the organisation, they can express themselves and feel that they've got some progression for development, if they wish, or stability in the role, if they feel comfortable just doing what they've always done and continue to do so.
Speaker 1:Excellent. And then I should go back to you, because I've heard, we've spoken a lot. I've heard a lot of people who work for you, who have always spoken very hardly of you as a leader. You've obviously worked. We're up to a very senior role within one of the biggest businesses, biggest manufacturers in the North East. Was being in that role something, in the early stages, you always wanted to do and you saw that path be self-or. How did that come about, would you say? Take us back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess. Well, I started my career at Nissan as an industrial engineer and that gave me the very privileged opportunity to work within every aspect of the manufacturing plant up there at NMUK. So that gave me a very broad horizon of opportunities, particularly within manufacturing. And yes, you saw some people in that organisation who you kind of looked up to and thought, yeah, it would be really good to be able to run something of this kind of scale and size and organisation. So that was really where everything started for me.
Speaker 2:I walked, then went into some of the T1 automotive manufacturing and then the real growth ultimately for me came when I was a consultant. I was across Europe working for companies like Airbus, bombardier Transportation throughout Europe on the A380, that big, that big, huge jumbo jet and their supply chain management, and that really gave me the opportunity to understand, from a perspective of being a leader as a consultant, you have to win the hearts and minds of people and winning those hearts and minds in a constructive way, not in a way that's preaching and lecturing and dictating, but one which kind of takes people with you, and that really started to sort of mould me as a person, as a leader, and from that really I just sort of saw that as an opportunity came, I would take it. And here I am, here at Newton, a Cliff, in a plant with more than a thousand people and a lot of responsibility that goes with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you've worked in some challenging environments. You mentioned that automotive obviously is a challenging environment. Have you consciously adapted your management style over time? If you think back to when you were first a leader, versus where you are now, what the changes would you say you've made?
Speaker 2:I guess I don't know if it's true or not but as you get older you may be finding a little bit more empathy and a little bit more. You find that you can understand people's positions a little bit more. I wouldn't say you give people more time, because time is of the essence. As always in the automotive industry, you have to be very agile and move very quickly, but it's about bringing people with you.
Speaker 2:When I first started in some of my earlier roles I was an improvements kind of guy who was within the industrial engineering sort of community. It's all about time, motion, value stream mapping and understanding how we can improve and develop and enhance our processes and become more efficient. And that's really the essence of everything that I kind of work towards. And earlier in my career I would be very, very quick at trying to introduce those improvements and very demanding of not just myself but of all of the people around me to try and buy into it. And I guess as time goes on you realise that without people understanding and really believing and buying into those different ways of working and different methods and processes, then if you don't take people with you, then you're plowing alone furrow and it ain't going to work. So I guess my management style has developed through that industrial engineering and continuous improvement phase, of one of plowing on and getting things done as quickly as possible to one whereby it's actually realising that you're not going to get anywhere unless the people are coming with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, and I think that's a tough one, isn't it? For people who either start a new role internally in the business, suddenly thrust into management they've got a leader team or actually starting in a brand new position as a leader and they've got to step into a team who don't know them and they've got to manage them. So if you were to do that, your advice would be to quickly understand the different people individually or as a team Both you know you need to understand the dynamics of the individual, but also how they fit into the team.
Speaker 2:We use the phrase sometimes that you don't want a team of Ronaldo's. You need a balance throughout that team of people who are really pushing forward and trying to innovate and create new ways of doing things, but then you need the people who are going to have that balance of stability and of following routines and rigours and disciplines that ultimately underpin everything that we do. So, yes, you need to understand the team and how those team dynamics work and who the individuals are within the team, but then, of course, you need to understand the individuals, because everyone has different individual needs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree that massively, actually, because I know that when I'm recruiting myself, you've got great successful people, but you couldn't, I couldn't have a team then, because do you know what I mean? It's that balance, isn't it Not that they can't be all successful, but they can't have a team of that particular trait, because everyone brings something different, don't they, to the business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Everyone brings something different and it's important to recognise that. You know, it's not all about the person who shouts the loudest and makes the most amount of noise when people get suppressed by those kind of individuals and those characters, and part of the role of the leader is to allow those other people to have the airtime or to listen to them, and then you can take their message to the rest of the team if they maybe aren't confident enough or don't feel comfortable in doing so.
Speaker 1:Do you think management and the solution has changed over time? Because you mentioned Emory there and I don't think that was that probably wouldn't have been a word 30 years ago. I would say that was on leaders literally better than it now is and it's important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, possibly not.
Speaker 2:If I think back to maybe some of the earlier days in my career and some of the management styles that I was kind of subjected to but observed then, yes, it was probably more prevalent.
Speaker 2:I would suggest that, you know, people back in the 70s and 80s were maybe more aggressive, felt that it was okay to kind of take a more aggressive and forceful style and maybe the word empathy wasn't used as much then. But people still had feelings, people still had insecurities, people still had difficulties, maybe within the business world. It was felt that it wasn't the role of business to support those needs, because it was their own personal issues that maybe they had to resolve themselves. But cast your mind way, way, way back to the Cadbury's village and it's not unusual and it has been done in the past, many, many years ago where welfare and the well-being of the employees was very prevalent and very important. So it's not new, it's not unusual. But I think we maybe as a nation, we probably lost our way a little bit and it did become a lot more aggressive and a lot more about me rather than about us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's probably a nice segue into what you know I've discussed before and I think and we mentioned as well how Colby was probably a catalyst for this change. I know you know Gestampa's doing a lot of great stuff regarding this and I think a lot of companies can learn from it is the how important people are in a business, but that recognition piece. But actually it isn't just about the salary. Next one said now it's about all those other things to make sure that people looked after, because I can tell you from my experience now that people ask much deeper questions about the company and the job when they're looking for an opportunity than they ever used to. Now it's the employee value proposition. All that piece is really prevalent now. Have you seen that transition over the last? I guess? What? Four years now really for talking sort of pre and post COVID, aren't they really?
Speaker 2:Yes, I would say so, and I think COVID drove a lot of that. You know, the working from home part of it, the work-life balance aspect of it, the importance of spending time with the family. I think some people possibly spend too much time with their families in COVID, but I think that brought to the forefront the importance of having a balance. And, yes, we have seen that the people do request and ask about the balance between work and life and about other aspects of working from home, about the offering of the business in terms of different kind of other aspects of the contract. So you know what's the maternity and paternity leave? You know, do we give flexible working in terms of their ability to support child care needs and their ability to be a carer, perhaps for an elderly parent, and what kind of relief can we give people for that?
Speaker 2:You know you get into the realms then of particularly when you look at the lower grades of pay, about bursaries and how we can support people in other ways in terms of helping them. And then, of course, there's the community aspect of it, and people are interested in a business who has got a social responsibility and an integrity in terms of, particularly for us as employing a thousand plus people in Newt Naikli. What do we do for the local community and how can we support them? And what other activities do we undertake as a business? And people want to be part of some of those things. So yes, the questioning is much broader than just the role itself. It's about more sort of wider aspects.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100 percent. You've been at Stamford for a while. You've worked to open to a very, very senior position. What's it like working for a business which is the biggest manufacturer in that area, with a really interesting history I guess behind it Does it feel important to be Because, obviously, one of those where, unless and unless and me next door might go, it's OK for the big boys. You know what I mean, that sort of mentality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really unique business that the site here, the Gestant plant here. We celebrated our 75th anniversary last year of manufacturing on the same site and we started a business here that was on an old munitions site and the first products that were made here were fancy goods, so they were powder cases made out of the shells of the munitions that were made here, and from there it grew into making white goods, some microwaves, washing machines, and then moved into the automotive industry. And here we are today, from a business that started 75 years ago, with seven different factories and over a thousand people. And with that heritage, let's say, and with that longevity, comes a further sense of responsibility.
Speaker 2:You know, my role here is to ensure that the plan when I sit in my smoke and get and slip, is fit and able to sustain itself for another 75 years. So I do feel that sense of responsibility and I do feel that sense of history and it comes with a sense of pride. There are people who worked here for 40 plus years and we have a celebration of long service each year and it always astounds me how many people are there with more than 25 years service and then you've got people with 40 plus year service and we have a very strong apprenticeship program. We've got 40 plus apprentices across the various different year groups and that's again one of our ways of paving the way for the future and giving us a group of people who feel part of an organisation that they can stay with for the rest of the career. So, yes, it's a very unique business, and one with it comes a unique responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how much? How much that pressure do you feel? Because you've got a very calm in presence but, like you say, that position you're in it is one where it comes a lot of pressure because of the heritage and because of the demands. Is that something that is offered up back for you? Was it something you feel and have to drive?
Speaker 2:It's a bit of both. Really. You want to feel the pressure of that sort of responsibility because that helps drive you forward, it helps keep you grounded, it helps keep you focused on what's important. It doesn't become overwhelming because you can't afford to let it become overwhelming. So, as a leader, you have to find those coping strategies and mechanisms and understand yourself well enough to know when the pressure is getting to you. How do you find that release? Where is that release? And yes, you can't, in my opinion is that, as a leader, you can't afford to be running around with your hair on fire. You need to be calm and steady in that person that people can go to for some guidance, some advice, to bounce ideas off. And so, yes, it does come with a responsibility, but you have to be able to cope with that and understand yourself well enough to be able to manage your own expectations and your own desire to do as best as you can.
Speaker 1:Apologies for interrupting this podcast. For a very quick 30-second picture of my business. Theo James are a specialist in manufacturing and engineering recruitment search firm based in Seam in the North East. If you're looking for any staff or new opportunity yourself from a semi-skilled level, write the way up to C-suite executive and please get in touch. We have a specialist consultant in each discipline ready to help. I'm extremely proud of what we've built over the years and I'd love to extend that service out to you. Thank you, enjoy the podcast. Yeah, great, I love that and I think it's been okay now for leaders to understand that it's all right for them to feel stressed and pressurised and almost show it sometimes, because I think that's a phenomenon that leaders shouldn't feel or shouldn't show that side of pressure, but more often than not it's the most pressurised job in the room and it's difficult. Do you feel like you have code mechanisms to make sure that stress for you remains at certain level? Do you have to section time off yourself or have you got that under control?
Speaker 2:I would say I've got it under control, but you know there are always. I've got a couple of dogs, which is great to go and walk them, and further I walk the better it is. And so you know it's nice to get out into the outdoors. Got a young boy who plays football and it's great to watch him and that's a relief, a release, sorry. And then you talk to other people around the. You know you talk to other parents around the football pitch and you know my role, yes, is one of high responsibility and high pressure and all of the things that we've talked about in terms of the heritage of the business.
Speaker 2:But every person has got their own pressures and every person's got their own stresses and strains and own issues that they have with their own working life being a guy who runs his own business and doing odd jobs around the community and in January and such like. To those people in positions like mine and everyone has their own, their own pressures and issues, and who am I to think that mine are greater than anyone else's? So you know, we all have to kind of appreciate that we've all got our own stresses and strains. That's just life and we have to ultimately support each other and support yourself and know how to how to do that. Not everybody does. Some people need more help than others.
Speaker 1:I'm fortunate enough to be able to find that balance and find those release mechanisms to help keep me sometimes on it, even kale love that eggs and I like to speak your brains about culture because we're sort of touching it with them summer stuff, but culture now is is so integral to a business and so important for for a business's future and staff happiness, if you like. As a business, is that been the forefront of Gustam's journey? How have you done that? Because I know you know the feedback we've had from people work that has been very, very positive and that's something that they have concentrated on, not just happen by chance yeah, it's difficult because you know, with, with, with the number of people that we have, it's always difficult to influence every leader within the organization.
Speaker 2:But ultimately you have to set an example. My example that I try to set is one of empathy, ultimately one whereby okay, we have a job to do, we have to deliver. If we don't deliver, we won't be here in the future. So so, so there is a pressure. We have to recognize that.
Speaker 2:It's good to have that, that pressure of knowing that we have to deliver, but it has to be done within a culture of respect and integrity and honesty and openness, because without that, then then how do you get people to come along the journey with you? And it's difficult because you have so many different characters and different people in different leadership positions, and to influence all of those people and get them to to recognize what, what it is that you expect of them, is always going to be hard. But to set the example is the first thing and then to challenge and those behaviors and call them out is the second, and over time, people get to understand and recognize who it is that we look for and what kind of traits and behaviors we look for in our leaders. That results in some people leaving the business, but it also gives us an opportunity then to demonstrate that the kind of people that we want in the organization yeah, love that and and away from leadership.
Speaker 1:I know we spoke before and this is I think it's a nice myth to debunk this because you mentioned yourself there, because Stanford are a large organization and I think there's a misconception where companies think it larger companies it's easy because you can throw money at a happiness and they can do this. But I disagree. I think it's it's much harder to control the culture of a company of a thousand staff versus twenty staff, because there's more people to please, simple as that. And I also disagree that that it costs a lot of money to make so happy it comes. It comes from exactly what you spoke about there, right from the leaders. But I often find little things that people mention. It's a thing, it's the, it's the. It's the. It's the cake on a Friday. It's the, it's the van come. Is that tabby stuff? You know it's little things, it don't. It's the sports days people on. It's that tabby stuff which people think is fluffy, but it isn't. That's that community vibe. So is that something that, as a business, they've worked on?
Speaker 1:What do you?
Speaker 2:say yes very hard. You're right, as a larger organisation you can put more resource to things, but it requires a lot more resource to do those things. So we have a person in our organisation who's our health and wellbeing leader that's a side from our safety team. And yes, we've had family fun days and yes, we have the Tuesday buddy vans coming in and the ice cream vans in the summer. And, yes, we have free van coffee machines on time to talk days and biscuits on the tables. We do a lot of work with the charity committee. We have a sports and social committee, so we do a lot of those things, absolutely. And yes, bigger organisations can put more resource to those things.
Speaker 2:But to try and touch those thousand people and try and get them to understand what it is we're offering them is always difficult. But those things that may seem small aren't always that small. We sometimes get criticised how can you afford to put the buddy van on when we can't afford to get this? And it's getting the balance right, but that buddy van that comes in, the hog roast van that comes in. What you have to also understand is that some people in our organisation they'll be sacrificing their tea for that buddy van. So that means they can put another meal on the table, because the cost of living crisis has affected a lot of people, and some of those people work within our organisation. So we have to recognise that some of those things that might seem small and insignificant to some are quite big and important to others, and it's getting the balance right and trying to do a little bit of everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really like that. Automotive is obviously. The heritage in North East is phenomenal and you start off on this on yourself. It is obviously now a time of change where there's all the renewable sustainability, the electric vehicles coming in. Are you seeing that transition get faster and faster? Now is obviously you know sort of people. Companies are starting to change their mentality piece. How are you dealing with that? What do you say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's a big thing? Of course it is. It's a big thing in terms of not just the automotive industry, but industry in general, globally. You know everything we do, and here currently is around the climate crisis that we face and, yes, in the automotive industry, things are moving and things are moving very quickly. You referred to Nissan. Every vehicle that they make in the near future will be electric. All of the new models that are going into the Nissan Sundal and factory are all electric. We're launching new vehicles with BMW, for many in the next, well, in the next few months. They are all electric vehicles. We're producing new vehicles for Volvo in the next 18 months. They're all electric vehicles. So every new vehicle that's coming to market is electrified. It's an electric vehicle, not an internal combustion engine one. So the automotive industry is moving and it's moving quickly.
Speaker 2:I was just listening on the news this morning to the chief executive of Airbus and around air travel and around how they're trying to accelerate and do as much as they can to decarbonise their industry, and his very words were they're not moving fast enough and ultimately nobody is, because of the situation that we face globally from the climate crisis and the warming of the globe.
Speaker 2:So, yes, the automotive industry is moving and, yes, our cells are doing a lot of things, a lot of initiatives in terms of how we can recycle some of the energy that we generate in some of our processes, some of the heat that we generate, how we can optimise and use our energy as wisely and as carefully as possible, solar panels and all of those things that you would expect are being done.
Speaker 2:And then it's not just about the impact to the environment on carbon. It's also about the impact on environment in terms of waste and how we can reduce our waste streams, and we have no waste that comes out of this plant that goes to landfill. Everything is recycled and reused and we produce a product that's primarily made out of steel and we're now looking at green steel, so every piece of raw material that we use in our products is something that's being recycled. So every aspect of our business is looked at and scrutinised and how we can do things better. That sort of grounding that I got in the industrial engineering phase of my career has set me in good stead, because you have to be able to adapt and change and do things in a different way and have that philosophy of continuous improvement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's huge, isn't it? I mean, the matter of change that's happening now in manufacturing in Germany is massive Again. I just think it's such an unspoken industry now. You know what I mean. It used to be such a powerhouse and it's just not spoken about now. All the stuff you've mentioned there is unbelievable really. And the Northeast, how much it has to offer now, is amazing. It's brilliant. Now, not just Washington, nissan, now it's tea-sized Durham, it's every aspect. It's a brilliant place to be. What would you say the biggest sort of challenges that we're facing in the industry now, would you say you might be specific to the stamping might be, just as a whole industry, what we say are concerned about.
Speaker 2:I guess the big thing for me in terms of the changes that we're going through at the moment, in terms of not just the automotive industry but industry in general and the climate challenge let's call it is the levels of investment that are required in order to keep up with.
Speaker 2:You know, if we look towards China and speaking from personal experience, we've been challenged in the past in terms of winning new work and we can't compete with some of the levels of capital support that the Chinese get from their government compared to the ones that we get.
Speaker 2:And I was recently in London talking to some of the government ministers about investment and about how we can generate the capital investment needed to compete on the global stage, because ultimately, that's what we need to do in the Northeast. We're not just the Northeast of England competing with other regions of the UK, we're competing on the global platform and there's simply no money in government to support industry in being at the forefront of that technology. And you see what's happening in America and the investment that they're putting into the green technologies. And then you see what's happening in China and the investment that they receive, and it's very, very difficult to compete and if we don't compete today, we won't be competitive and we won't be here in the future. So that's, I guess, my greatest fear in terms of how do we invest today to protect the future of the next generation and allow them the opportunities that we've had with the likes of Nissan coming here in the early 80s?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great, and it needs more people like you to speak up, doesn't it for that? I'm seeing manufacturers collaborate more and more, I would say, but it's almost like a call to arms, isn't it? I mean, it would help your case if every single leader of every single manufacturing business was like-minded and spoke up. With that, I would imagine.
Speaker 2:I think they are. I think every leader of a manufacturing organisation is aware of that challenge, but it's having the forum and having the opportunity to have that platform. You've got good organisations in the North East like the North East Not a Motive Alliance who give a voice. The North Eastern Chamber of Commerce gives a voice. So, yeah, there are organisations within the North East that kind of bring manufacturing and businesses together to provide that platform. But, yes, not everyone has the opportunity of taking part in those conversations. But ultimately I think we're all on the same page. We all want what's best for the North East. Ultimately, the UK second. So, yeah, I think everyone has that same drive and desire for the North East to be successful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great. I completely agree. I think what you're doing there is excellent, because it needs more people to do exactly that to put the head above and shout about it. We spoke a lot about Istanbul. I think it's a great country to learn from. What are you excited about over the next 18, 24 months? What's on the agenda?
Speaker 2:Yeah, business-wise, a lot of things. As I said earlier, the automotive industry is transitioning to electric. We see some bumps in the road because government legislation changes. We've already seen the internal combustion regulations change and get pushed out by a number of years. That means that for the automotive industry what's going to be a switch over to electric in the next couple of years is going to take a little bit longer and there'll be a merger between existing vehicles and new vehicles.
Speaker 2:But in the next 18 months we've got a real change in our business area and portfolio at Gestant-Macliffe. We're launching products for BMW, for Volvo, we see the end of life of some of our Ford products, end of life of some of our existing BMW, a lot of new work with Nissan and some of their electric vehicles that are coming to market. So big investment in the plant and a big set of new challenges. We're integrating our processes, we're using automated technology. It's very exciting. There's a lot of new things happening in the business, which is really good because we're involved, we're at the forefront and it's going to be an exciting 18 months to see all of these new products come into industry reproduction.
Speaker 1:Nice, excellent mate. Well, I've got some quick five questions. You might not have seen these, so we'll have a look. Who was your best manager you've ever had, and why?
Speaker 2:My best manager I've ever had, I would say it was a chap called Francois Charles. He was a French guy. I worked at a place called Fareesha and he was here with his wife and his family. He was a live wire. He was very dynamic. He was French, so he had that Gaelic flair, but he supported me. He gave me opportunity, he allowed me some freedom in my role as an improvements engineer and let me make the mistakes that I needed to make to learn a little bit. So I would probably say he was the best leader I've had as a line manager.
Speaker 1:Is that freedom thing something that you've taken? I agree, I think giving people freedom is difficult, isn't it when you first start a leader? Because it's that trust.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is the trust. But unless you make a mistake, you're not going to learn. It's not a bad thing to make mistakes, because if you make one once, then you'll not do the same thing again. Hopefully, if you're not doing something and if you don't make mistakes, then you're not progressing forward. So show me someone who's done nothing and I'll show you someone who's never made a mistake. So you have to embrace that and learn from it. It's an opportunity, love it Excellent.
Speaker 1:Biggest influence from either sporting world, business world, anyone that springs to mind that's ever influenced you.
Speaker 2:Who's somebody who comes to mind when I look at anyone outside of my industry, as a leader and as a person. I was once very privileged to be taking a flight to France, and who shall I be sat next to but to Bobby Robson. So I shared a glass of champagne with him. It was in the morning. I asked him who he was going to go and sign in. He wouldn't tell me, and then he proceeded to eat. He's caught of marmalade with a knife, left his toast. But what an inspiring character, what an inspiring person. What a leadership style he had. He wasn't afraid for people to laugh at him and with him. So he would probably be the person who I would say was most inspirational, and still is to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing, and so met him as well. I love that. What are three things or words that make him a good leader, will you say.
Speaker 2:Integrity, fairness and honesty. Love it.
Speaker 1:Excellent Best book or audio book podcast you've ever read or listened to.
Speaker 2:That's a good one, because I don't really watch podcasts or listen to any, but I would probably say that one that I've chatted, mark Bracknell whoever he is, he does some good ones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the latest episode was the best.
Speaker 2:Is that this one?
Speaker 1:Any books. Are you a reader Any sort of business books that you ever?
Speaker 2:No, I wouldn't say I'm a reader. I mean, there's one that's called the Machine that changed the world, which is a little bit about the sort of the lean transformations that came around with the Toyota people and things. But that's a little bit nerdish, I guess. So, to be honest, I don't tend to read and research and I just do things on the hoof and do things that come naturally to me. So no, not really. Yeah, love it.
Speaker 1:What interesting one for you, because obviously I know you went to the university. What's more important an academic route or on-the-job learning?
Speaker 2:It's really interesting. Yeah, I mean, my background is one of academic. I went to university and did a degree in manufacturing systems. But I look around me and I look at some of those people who have progressed to the highest positions in organisations and they've done an on-the-job learning and apprenticeship route and I don't think there's a right answer to the question.
Speaker 2:I don't think either route is the best one. I think it depends on the person and it's really difficult at the age of 16. How on earth do you know which route you want to follow? And I didn't, I just drifted into university. So I wouldn't like to say that either route is better than the other. I think it's purely dependent on the individual. It depends on where they are at that time in their life, whether they feel that they want to continue in education because they enjoy it, or whether they feel they want to get a couple of pounds in the back pocket and they want to go and learn through on the job. So I don't think either one is the best route. I think it depends on the individual and their circumstances and what they feel that they want to do at that point in time. And that's how I feel about that sort of education part of it.
Speaker 1:Good answer. Finally, if you could waive a magic wand and improve the manufacturing industry today, how would you do it In the UK?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I would probably try and look for investment and capital, because we've been here and we've been doing things for a long period of time and to really progress to that next stage of using integrated automation, using this industry for which is just really stuff that's been around since time began but to really change the face of the manufacturing industry in the UK, we need the right skills and I think those will exist because we've got a good education system, we've got good apprenticeship systems. But I think the investment is needed to transform some of our manufacturing processes. So I think I had a magic wand, I'd look for some money, but I wouldn't just throw it around. Clearly, if you have that capital investment, you have to have a return on it. Without that return on it, then nobody's going to invest. But yeah, I think the investment that we see up at Sunderland and Nissan particularly, is really good to see, but that investment's only worthwhile if the tier 1s and tier 2s and the smaller manufacturers are able to also invest to keep up the speed with that.
Speaker 1:Love that Excellent Look. I don't know if this has been great. I was looking forward to it and it definitely didn't disappoint. I think I've really enjoyed it because it's been a proper leadership and manufacturing conversation and I think people can learn a lot from your career and your leadership style. And, like we said before, leadership now is about trust, it's about empathy, it's about supporting teams, make them feel safe None of the words we probably would describe 30 years ago. It's massively changed, so I think almost the leaders can understand that. It almost takes a pressure off a little bit, thinking they need to be something that they're not. So people can learn loads from this, and I certainly have. It's been great and I wish you all the luck and Istanbul luck. So thank you, mate, really appreciate this.
Speaker 2:Thank you, mark, no problem, take care. Good to talk.