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Manufacturing Leaders
Currently the Number 1 Manufacturing Podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts!
Mark Bracknall, Founder of Theo James Recruitment is the host of Manufacturing Leaders.The UK is still a powerhouse in Manufacturing & Engineering. We speak to those who are helping to make those firms a success. By motivating, inspiring and managing teams.Are you new to management? Are you keen to hear from those who are dealing with the same day-to-day challenges you are facing?In this podcast we get inside the minds of the Managers in Manufacturing & Engineering, and understand how they get the best our of their teams and make Manufacturing & Engineering great.
Manufacturing Leaders
Navigating Business Challenges and Expanding Opportunities in Leadership
What if true leadership transcends personal ambition? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Andrew Wood as he recounts his transformation from a driven young leader to one who prioritizes responsibility and integrity. Discover how Andrew's early experiences and a pivotal moment delivering a speech ignited his passion for leadership. We'll dive into the complexities of nurturing a senior team and the profound impact leaders have on their team members' lives and families. This episode promises to offer a nuanced understanding of what it means to truly lead with heart and conviction.
As we navigate through Andrew's journey, we'll tackle the age-old debate: are leaders born or made? Hear firsthand how confidence and practical skills like public speaking play a crucial role, and why Andrew believes traditional curricula fall short in developing these essential qualities. Explore the significance of internal leadership development programs, with a spotlight on GMS's innovative approaches. Whether you're an aspiring leader or a seasoned one, Andrew's insights on cultivating leadership from within will resonate deeply.
The conversation doesn't stop there. We'll also address modern business challenges and evolving leadership styles. From the impact of global disruptions on supply chains to strategies for creating positive work environments, Andrew shares valuable lessons on resilience and adaptability. Learn how GMS has remained steadfast through tumultuous times and continues to expand into new sectors. This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom, offering actionable strategies and inspiring reflections for leaders at all stages. Don’t miss this opportunity to learn from Andrew Wood's remarkable journey and insights.
Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298
I can it just it's not live. Do you know what I mean? So you know if you ever need to stop it or anything, just whatever it gets edited, so it's all good. So what I'll do when you're ready, mate, I normally just go straight into it now, because the introduction I sort of record when you've gone, basically. So I'll do like an introduction of what we talked about, but that'll be after you've gone. So I tend to just when you're ready, just say hello and go straight into it and, um, then just ask you the first question after that that's all right, which is always.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hey, you, you crack on we'll just have a chat, for I've got this is a guy which I'll sort of um, every now and again look down at, but we'll just have a chat and see whatever comes up. Comes up, if you're, if you're okay with that, and yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine with that. So I always try and make them about 40-ish minutes once they all get on. But are you okay for me to crack when you're ready? Yes, when you're ready, you fire on. Excellent. So a warm welcome today to Andrew Wood. Massive. Massively appreciate you coming on this morning. Andrew, how are you All good?
Speaker 1:Pretty good. Yes, it's a Monday, so start of another week, and who knows, who knows what challenges are coming this week.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, Completely agree. So first question is the same question I ask everyone that comes on what does it mean to you to be a leader?
Speaker 1:Wow, that's quite a broad-reaching question From a point of view of me as a younger man. Clearly, I'm not a younger man now, but as a younger man, it was about ambition, it was about achievement, it was about becoming the head of whatever it happened to be at the time. I remember getting into my first leadership role and then thinking that I was going to be, you know, this is the sort of leader I'm going to be and I'll be like this, I'll do this and do that. And of course, I did none of it. And it was the beginning of the learning curve, of real learning curve, of what it means to be a leader and what it meant to me.
Speaker 1:And talking as a more experienced man as I am now, leadership comes with a whole raft of different things. The most important thing to me is responsibility. It's the responsibility not to conduct yourself in a manner which is befitting being a leader, but it's the responsibility of those that you are supposedly leading. I look upon it within our business, within GMS, that we are a bit of a cliche. It sounds like a bit of a cliche, but I really mean this that we are a family, and I know that my colleagues either have a wife, husband, partners, children, and there's a lot of responsibility that I take on board with that that we need to keep a successful business. We need to make sure that we're making all the right decisions, because there's that broader picture of the number of people that are actually dependent on the actions that we take. So that's the.
Speaker 1:I think it's very important to me as a person. The other element of being a leader is, yes, of course, there is still an ambition in me to want to improve and want to achieve, not just for me personally, more so for the team team, more so for the business that we have. You know, we're going through a process now of developing the senior team to let them fly a little bit, let them spread their wings, and we're in the process of that, and it's that's the exciting part of leadership is being at the front end of that and being involved in that, particularly with the younger members of the team. I hope that answers your question.
Speaker 2:You answer really well. Actually there's loads of things. I'll sort of um, sort of pick back on that, because it's some interesting questions there. You mentioned, obviously, when you were first starting out, you had this idea of what a leader was, was meant to be, and you wanted to be, which is. Which is interesting in itself, because I think a lot of people either fall into management or they're almost pushed into management because they're good at the job, which is another debate I'm sure we'll have. By the sounds of it, was it something you'd always wanted to be, or can you remember a time where you thought I just want to be a leader?
Speaker 1:Well, I played a lot of golf, thought I just want to be, I want to be a leader. Well, I was the. I played a lot of golf when I was a boy. I started when I was nine and it was a you don't realize at the time because, yeah, you're living it, you're enjoying it. But my parents uh sort of encouraged me to, to join the golf club. My father was a member of the golf club. I started nine. I then got involved in the junior league team and it was all. It was all really good grounding as a young person.
Speaker 1:And there was a gang of us there was about 20 of us, similar ages, girls and boys, who went around different courses and you, you know, you competed for the club that you were representing and, of course, that was my first sort of leadership role was I ended up captain when I was 13.
Speaker 1:And I recall having to stand up the first time I was captain was South Shields Golf Club, and you had to stand up and make a speech on behalf of the golf club that I was representing, which is Tyneside, to say how wonderful the greens were, all the normal things that you hear the winner of the British Open saying, but slightly dumbed down and I was being absolutely terrified. But coming after that speech as a 13-year-old, having an incredible buzz and talking to my father on the way home in the car, saying, dad, because my dad had a reasonably, uh, senior role, I said is it like this all the time? Is it like this all the time? Says, and he twigged. He twigged early on that there was something in me that uh was wanting to become. Uh, I'm not going to say a high achiever, because that's an awful phrase, but someone that had enough drive in them that wanted to try different things. And I have. I've tried all sorts of different things, you know, as your career evolves and as your life evolves as well.
Speaker 2:Because you'll have worked with a lot of leaders as well, and you're an example of this. Do you think people are born with a level of of that drive, ambition, or do you think it can and is taught typically, or?
Speaker 1:um, I'm gonna set myself up here to get shot down. I don't think there's anything born. What arrives is a human being, and it's the environment in which the human being is allowed to grow and is supported to grow that can engender, it, can bring in that drive, that ambition, that purpose. There are some elements in an individual's character which I think are more akin to that, that respond better to that, but I don't think it's like some of the footballers or golfers that we see. Were they born like that? No, no, no.
Speaker 2:They were born with a talent, but the talent's been refined and it's been educated and it's been drawn out to the point, with their drive, that they've been able to do something with it yeah, and what's interesting is you mentioned that that sort of Paul was your point, for you was at 13, which is very, very young, to have delivered that speech, which is an unbelievable thing to do with that age. I've often that I'm not a fan of the school curriculum. Really, I'm quite passionate about that. I think it's built to pass exams at a young age and not necessarily get people ready, and I just think that's more fuel there to say that you know, if young people were learning how to do public speaking, how to be entrepreneurial, you know how to get themselves out of their comfort zone from a very early age, which is what you did. You never know. If that speech had come four years down the line, you might not have had the young little bit of confidence to do it.
Speaker 1:Do you know?
Speaker 2:what I mean. It's one of those, isn't it? I just think that there's so much stuff when you're young, you're a sponge and you can learn so much more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's so much stuff when you're young, then you're a sponge and you can, we can learn so much more. Yeah, I think you're right. The word is confidence. It's sort of it's sometimes confidence with ignorance, because you're not quite sure you haven't learned yet the failure word and I think this is much talked about with young people that, uh, they're more likely to try things particularly small children are more likely to try things because they haven't learned yet what failure tastes like or what rejection tastes like. So and I think yeah, I think it's certainly, it's something I had never forgotten and it's something that I've referred to on quite a few occasions, to for myself, but also to others that, uh, you know, every opportunity that comes along, have a look at it, consider it and, if it's right for you, have a go you mentioned as well that gms, you are currently training leaders as well, which actually companies you know don't take that for granted, because a lot of companies still don't do that.
Speaker 2:They just presume that someone's good at the job, so they must be good at training someone else to do that job as well. Is that something you've developed since you've been there, or is that something they've had in a while, for some time?
Speaker 1:no, the the founder of this business, uh owen ingram uh who has has stepped back from the business recently. Uh, he started a step back about three years ago and the the plan was for me to uh rise to to the position of md, which I have, and then the development continues. So we have four young uh bright things who are in in the various areas within the business, going through a variety of development programs to hone their skills and allow them to express themselves and allow them to try different things, all supported. But but this is something that we've done as a business, certainly as long as I've been here. I'm about to start my 12th year, but before that as well, we have all four members of the senior team have been put through university in one form or another by GMS, so, qualified engineer, we have an MBA. We have a young man with his SEMA qualifications and another colleague who has a degree in logistics international logistics all funded by the business, and that continues.
Speaker 1:We have other programs ongoing. One of our young quality technicians is starting Newcastle College to start his engineering degree and we're funding that. And that's just one of a few things that we do as a business. No surprises that our staff retention is pretty good and we've endeavoured, along with that, to create an environment which is a pleasant place to work with some of the, let's say, more recent I wouldn't say perks, but more recent thank yous for work that the guys have done. Um, I think that's important as well, that we're always turning, we're always learning, we're always looking to embrace and take on board elements that are going to improve us and improve the life of the guys that that work here.
Speaker 2:It's so important. I say it's no coincidence that the retention rate is good because of that, because it will be because of that, because people are getting looked after. If you were thrust into a situation in a new business or a business which is existing, but they don't have that, if you were advising in a company, let's say, and they have no training process or policy, what would be the, what would be the first place you start? It might be a company that perhaps can't just have at this stage, putting x amount of people through university, or what would be the sort of first steps would you say?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think lots of organizations, lots of organizations are not in a financial position to be able to afford that and in some instances it's not right, it's not what's needed. I think talking and communication and, more importantly, listening for me would be the first step anywhere would be to understand what you've got to understand, what you have in your hand and what it is you're working with and what are the overall objectives of of the business and the people that are presently driving the business. Because training, development isn't, isn't about sending someone to university or to college, it's, it's ongoing and it's every day. There should be, there should be time taken. We have present development plans here for each of our individual.
Speaker 1:Every, every member of staff has a bdp which is reviewed, uh, half yearly and then at the end of year we have an end of year review which based on performance and sets the, the stall out for for the following year. And that's been a process of uh, you know we didn't just arrive overnight at that point. You have to, you have to have some commitment that we're going to start this journey and you've got to keep it going and you've got to be serious about it. And, of course, it changes shape and it changes slightly direction, but I'm I'm really pleased to say that we're at a point now where, uh, the senior team and some of the junior members of the team have embraced it and they're doing it. So it's not now have you done your PDPs. It's more about.
Speaker 1:This is what's coming out of the PDPs, and that's led on to another thing. We called it priorities when we first started it. We called it priorities when we first started it, but priorities basically was everyone having a say, having a say in the business as to what they thought we should be doing and what we should look like and what we should feel like. A lot of areas where sometimes people are reluctant to go. But we said, no, it's all open, let's have a free for all and see where we get to and some of the some of the improvements and advancements that have come out of that brilliant amazing and then, as a leader, you think well, hey, this, this job's easy yeah, yeah, but that's isn't it?
Speaker 2:that comes back to what you said before, that responsibility. You've got responsibility for them to progress their careers and that's what you're doing ultimately. And, yeah, and you get paid in that for that loyalty, for that people staying and progressing your business.
Speaker 1:And also understanding that to be paid depends on the loyalty and support of our customers. So you know the customer it's where it all starts and it's having that message within the business as well. So one of the guys that's driving a fork truck, or one of our drivers that's down country on a regular basis doing a milk run to our bigger clients that when he steps out of the cab he looks, looks right, he sounds right, and when he's talking to whoever's at the other end doesn't matter who it is, could be someone you know. It could be a guy in good saying. You never know. When you pitch up to a company, who's who's in good, saying that the same messages are coming over. Um, and it's, it's meant, it's meant, yeah, yeah, believe in it we believe in it.
Speaker 1:We're not just reading a script. Yeah, yeah, it's meant. Yeah, yeah, we believe in it. We believe in it. We're not just reading a script.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's a set values and culture 100%. I'd like to pick your brains a little bit more about GMS and we can talk a little bit about the supply chain piece. I think it's important. Could you tell us briefly a little bit about the business for anyone that doesn't know?
Speaker 1:We, gms, are a supply chain management company and we work with a range of large and small clients who are in a number of different industrial sectors. So I'll give you an idea. So we're in. We supply construction equipment manufacturers, so all the big yellow beasts that you'll be aware of. We supply into the automotive sector, some of the well-known names that you were all familiar with. We supply into agriculture. Similarly, there won't be too many tractors out there that don't have components that we've been involved in supplying. And we also work in some other sectors which are less in value than those but equally important to us as a business. So it's households, so domesticating systems, and we're also in the RV sector, so recreation vehicles. There's another area there where we've offered a lot of support. That's a historical area for us as a business.
Speaker 1:We're in our 26th year. We support our customer base with somewhere in the region of 60 to 70 suppliers, manufacturers that are predominantly based in China, some in Vietnam, some in India, and our role is to ensure that the manufacturer is fit for purpose for the customer. So you're not marrying a global business with a Fred in the shed or a Frida in the shed. You're marrying like for like. So we get involved with auditing. We audit all of our suppliers. They're all graded. We work with the vast majority of accreditations that you will be familiar with. We will have within the supply base, which is part and parcel of getting the fit right. And we've worked with these businesses Some of our best suppliers we've worked with since the beginning, since the beginning of our 26 years, and watch them grow and watch them develop and take on board new technology which we've been able to share down the line, whether that's in cost savings, whether that's in VAVE, which has been and will continue to be a value to machinery manufacturers that are trying to improve their margins, that are trying to sell more product by having a more aesthetic or a more effective or a more efficient piece of equipment or product that they have. So you know right the way through.
Speaker 1:We're involved, we store products, so we will have, on average, around two months worth of product. So it's all sold. It's either on a schedule or it's on a discrete order, and we then, with our own transport, we will deliver line side. So we'll deliver line side when it's demanded. So we are looking to offer a low cost manufacturer without the risk buying from a local source, whether it be a UK source, and, from a financial point of view, they're paying on their normal terms. There's no extended terms to pay money upfront, you know, know, six months before you get any product. That's not how we work. Uh, when, when clients come to us and they engage with us, they will, they will hopefully, hopefully, pay for product 30 days after that they'll get the parts so that's how we.
Speaker 2:That's how we work and obviously the last well, I said last two years, last, last seven years really supply chain or manufacturing, engineering markets connected to that, particularly supply chain, has had its challenges, shall we say. It's been a time, yeah, I mean. How have you navigated through it, I guess? What are the lessons you've learned during that time? Because it's been up and down and so hard to plan, hasn't it? It really has.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it has. I think it's an understatement when you say challenges. Yeah, it's hard to find the words.
Speaker 2:I've used a lot of words. It's not the BBC this year.
Speaker 1:Our listener may not hear any of them. Well, it started in 2016, really that that's when the sort of balloon went up with brexit. Um, we thought we had a handle on that by sort of 2017, 2018, but the market itself had been impacted and we were working through that. We buy everything predominantly in US dollars, so the day after Brexit, you can imagine what happened to the currencies, and that in itself was our first challenge, which we've managed. We're not a company that has brought in regular price increases. We don't do that. That has brought in regular price increases. We don't do that. We tend to work on platforms whereby they're three, four and five year cycles. So our aim is always to if, whatever the price is on day one, it's gonna be that on five years down the track. That is always a goal that we have to give our clients some visibility and some stability as well.
Speaker 1:But then, of course, along comes COVID. I was actually in China when it was about to, at the end of January in 2020, and I remember reading a two inch by one inch article in the China Daily, eight or nine pages in which said there was a bird flu type issue in Wuxi, wuxi and Wuhan, and of course, the rest is history. What happened? Our biggest challenge during COVID, apart from the obvious thing that everyone else struggled with, was sea freight. What else that everyone else struggled with was sea freight. The issue of sea freight the again I'll have to choose my words very carefully.
Speaker 1:With regards to the large freight companies, there was a scarcity of containers. There was an opportunity, which was taken advantage of. With regards to the cost of containers, we went from $1,200 a 20 foot container to just over $10,000. For a company that's bringing in 150 containers plus a year, you can do the maths yourself and they became our biggest supplier. That became our biggest supplier overnight, and it was money for old rope, it was money for nothing.
Speaker 1:So that was a challenging time, and that was when you are reminded of how supporting your customers can be. I guess because we were all going through the same melee. At the same time, there was an awareness that they understood what was going on with Seafreight. They understood the difficulties. Our biggest challenge that came out of that yeah, the cost is one element that you've got to navigate, but it was the availability of goods. At the other end, it was getting enough goods produced in enough time in order to satisfy the demands, because our biggest clients really were only shut down for three or four weeks, whilst it went on for months and months and months and months.
Speaker 1:It didn't really so. We were supplying during all of that time and the biggest challenges were getting the product through, and that went on for two years. That was. That was a two-year window. Um, we are fortunate as a business that we financially reasonably strong, with low gearing, we have cash in the bank and we were able to buy product a long way forward. So we were committing a long way forward on our scheduled customers to make sure that we knew that there was way more than we needed in the supply chain. But that was our security, that was our customer's security and that's what we did. That was our customer security and that's what we did. And we managed that through. We knife and forked that through to the point where I have to say we made a profit in 2020.
Speaker 2:In 2020.
Speaker 1:Some difficult decisions to make with regards to the team during that year.
Speaker 1:But we came out of that and we came back stronger in 2021 and in 2022. Then, of course, you know, mr Putin decided that if COVID wasn't enough, he'd have a go. So he's had a go at Ukraine, and that created issues, uh, for us in eastern europe, as we export as well, and more recently, we've got the the fun in the red sea with, uh, with what they're trying to do there. So, if nothing else, covid taught us that whatever way you find a way, you find a way through it, and you just need to be prudent and cautious but assertive at the same time. Yeah, that's what we were and that's what we will continue to do and I think you mentioned that there's, there's all, there's always.
Speaker 2:It seems to be always something and right now you could argue, obviously, with the political changes, with the, the potential budget, there'll be some hesitation there. You know, what advice would you have for people dealing with supply chain issues right now who've got to navigate this type of stuff, because there always seems to be something which is around the corner and people kicking the can for certain decisions and that can have a massive impact on it, on the business. If the supply chain piece can't make that decision, it can massive impact on it, on on the business.
Speaker 1:If the supply chain piece can't make that decision, it can uh, perseverance, perseverance and prudence making uh, never giving up. With regards to those projects that you're working on, I think I I said you in a previous conversation that our project book at the moment is as big as it's ever been. With regards to new opportunity, the conversion of those opportunities, people sitting on their hands, because all of us, not just our clients, we're all a little bit unsure with the political changes, but it's been going on all this year. This isn't new for us. We saw this at the tail end of last year. It's been progressive, as this year has gone on and I haven't spoken to anybody that's telling me it's going to change anytime soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's back to the perseverance and it's back to the prudence that we'll keep doing what we're doing. We are winning business uh, maybe not the amount of business that we feel we we should be winning, but we're holding our own, we're profitable, um, and we'll continue. We'll just continue to persevere and it will change. I think it'll take some time and it'll be gradual, and I think we're probably well into 2025 before we see the I think I believe the first shoots of anything that we could sort of write home and say, ooh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's echoed with most of our clients as well. But you're absolutely right, I think, what we've learned over the last seven or eight years, you've got to be agile and you've got to persevere, haven't you? And I think, with that now you can't wait on things that may or may not happen. You just can't. You've got to take an educated guess and be ready to pivot if something happens, because the worst has happened to every business that literally had their full client base stayed away from them for a period of time and companies have still got through it. And, like you say there, tough decisions have had to be made for business sometimes. But that comes back to that responsibility piece, isn't it? And if you've got responsibility to keep the business moving forward and keep, keep, make sure you have a business for those staff or the staff you choose to to move forward with. And it's tricky, isn't it? It's hard but it's got to be done well, that's yes.
Speaker 1:That's part of being a leader being in a position of responsibility where you know the decisions come to you or you're engaging with your team. We, we are a business that engage with our team because the ultimately, we need everyone to be moving forward together. So I remember being an apprentice. I started changing the subject completely. I started as an apprentice fitter and turner in the Vickers training school, back in Niveau. I think it was the Victorian era. I feel like it was Victorian era. It wasn't.
Speaker 1:I remember arriving in the training school in Elzig Vickers, elzig and it was like being in Victorian era. But I recall that the style of management at that time was just so autocratic and so prescriptive and so you didn't know any different. Because that you know, you're starting work as a young man and you think, oh well, if that's how it is, because it's only when you meet, when you when which I did subsequently you meet managers or supervisors that aren't actually that autocratic, that are more inclusive and collective. You think, I think I prefer that style to that style, and that's the beginning of you as a person, um, starting to cultivate your own sort of pathway as to maybe what you want to be like if you ever get to that point where you become a leader do you think that has drastically changed?
Speaker 2:because every leader I have on here maybe it's because people who want to come on a podcast are that way inclined. They're very progressive the way that they think. But it seems to me like the tide has turned now that what people will accept, how they are managed and people have had to then or wanted to to change. Have you seen that change over the years in terms of the style?
Speaker 1:yeah, definitely, definitely. I I meet, uh, I meet peers of a similar age and it doesn't take you very long to work out the style that they have. They have and I think for me, I used to think I was a bit odd because I wasn't autocratic, I was more collective, it was more about sitting down with the senior team say right, guys, what do you think we should be doing here? Yes, sometimes you've got to make, you have to make a decision, um, but then there's others that are, that are of my peers, as I say, who are, I guess, a little bit lost in the olden times.
Speaker 1:I think having more and more ladies, more and more younger women in management and in business in general has added to that significantly. I know my wife has got a fairly senior job with what she's done and you know she used to talk 20 years ago about a glass ceiling and you know that's not quite as it was. It's still, in some areas, a little bit like that, but it's definitely changed and I think that's helped the whole of leadership across the patch, that we are all together and we are dealing with people from so many different backgrounds, from so many different genres and walks of life. That you can't. You must be inclusive, you must be collective if you want to get anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%, which is a nice segue actually, because I think manufacturing still is perhaps behind the times for that little bit across the board. It's still particularly the Northeast. I think there's still a lack of real diversity there, but I'm now seeing businesses start to be proactive to change that, and it can take some time um, is that something you've seen businesses now start the last sort of 10 years to start to try to to change and to give those opportunities and to be different the way they recruit.
Speaker 1:Perhaps yeah, yeah, we can do it from a top line, which is how many uh purchasing managers do we deal with that are female? Lots, yeah, um, how many uh purchasing managers do we deal with that are from a different faith?
Speaker 1:lots yeah and it's brilliant. You know we're an inclusive country and, um, I think that's added significantly, but it's as I said a few months ago, I think it's added significantly to the way leadership is going. Yeah, um, and that tight's gone. Now you know that ship sailed on the autocratic style that just that's. It would be suffocated in a day's world just just won't work, it won't last, which is good. I, I can say my point of my career, which is a sort of you know the, the tailing off of my career, uh, that that's one thing I can be quite happy about. That, uh, the style of leadership now is, is, and you know what, in 20 years time. The exciting thing is who knows what?
Speaker 1:it's going to be like. What's the next wave going to bring? What's the next generation going to adopt? Yeah, that's exciting to know that. What are my kids? You know? What are my three? Where are they going to be? How are they going to be, how are they going to behave if they ever become leaders?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny. Actually I've got a contact who works for durham university in their sort of management training school and they asked them. They asked me to have a look at the new. Um, sort of course they've got and any, any advice I would give based on my limited experience. But um, the one thing I did say is I see now a big surge of the emotional intelligence piece and how important that is in leadership. And they said, actually that's something they are going to put in. But you know, it's a good example, isn't it? If you'd have said emotional intelligence even 15 years ago, no one would have known what it do. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It would just have been thought out it wouldn't, but now you know, you can see people see how important it is the results you get from talking. You mentioned yourself there sitting down with leaders and asking them what they need and listening to them. That's what it's all about, isn't it? That essentially is emotional intelligence really.
Speaker 1:I think so, you know, and I've felt that for a long time. So, yeah, I believe I'm told it's my style how I operate with the team, yeah, and outside the team, when I'm working with clients as well, because it's important that you don't leave your empathy at the office door.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. I want to ask you a quick question. You've mentioned before about part of the role there is you match up and you marry up suppliers and you audit suppliers and what makes going. It'd be interesting, too, a bit of a checklist there in terms of suppliers what makes one which is effective and could work well with another company. I think companies are always trying to improve on that. Any advice you'd give on that? On that aside, what do you say, or is it just case of horse or courses, how they work with each other?
Speaker 1:So obvious. I'm probably going to say some obvious things here, or they may seem obvious to me. Compatibility, so compatibility, not just in the I mentioned about the size for size element. Compatibility and approach. Compatibility in their style and mannerism to how they approach business, their levels of empathy with how they interact with us and how we interact with them. For me that's the particularly. You know, years and years of traveling overseas has taught me that forget about the language. You get into sort of the nuances of how you interact.
Speaker 1:Even when you don't understand what each other are saying, you can get the vibe from someone, whether they're on the same page or not, and that, to me, is always one of the first things that we try to establish. Is this individual, is this group of individuals, is this team, this business on the right page for us as an organization and will they marry with XYZ customer? And vice versa? Because there'll be demands from both sides and vice versa. Because there'll be demands from both sides and our job as the supply chain manager is to make sure there are no hiccups, to make sure that whatever's expected on the left hand is delivered on the right and vice versa, and that it's commercially viable, which is why we've been in business for 26 years that we've been able to do that.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, when you meet a new supplier, first off it's the feel, it's the vibe. Uh, yeah, you can walk around the factory, but I bet you've walked around lots of factories and you can. You can walk in three, three different factories and you can think, yeah, fantastic equipment, latest technology, state of the art. Yeah, super duper, whiz, bang, wallop, fantastic. And then you meet the management team or you meet the important people in the business and two sets turn you off and one set turns you on. So no surprises who you're going to be more focused on. It's the one where you've got some common ground and there's some compatibility.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. That's really really good advice. How do you see the industry changing, would you say over the next sort of, I guess, 5, 10, 15 years, because there's a lot of things that could drastically change it.
Speaker 1:Well, supply chain has its threats. Supply chain has political threats that we've briefly touched on. Yes, supply chain has political threats that we've briefly touched on. The situation in China is one of the drivers in China is to make money, and it's very important in China to make money. And Chinese business makes money despite what the government does or in spite of what yeah, maybe my grandma's not so good, but they carry on regardless to make money. And that will continue. Because they've got this surge of a developing country that's coming in behind. Everyone thinks, oh, everyone in China is living this grand life. No, it's not. It's a very small percentage of the population and, of course, you've got a huge part of the population that's aspirational, that wants to improve their lot. So there's a lot of years of development to come in China and that will spread their investments, being on infrastructure and creating the channels and the networks to allow it to grow and develop, and that will continue. So the political threats to that? Um, they're there, they exist.
Speaker 1:There has been since covid has been a level of uh, onshoring with we we've heard this phrase I I, as a supply chain management company who offshores, I can understand. I can understand onshoring because critical elements which can be onshore and can be produced economically onshore, I think, why not? I think I totally get that. But there are lots of elements that are still cost effective and will continue to be cost effective, that are, you know, produced in various parts of the world. The the issue of freight um, I noticed, I noticed over the weekend that the cost of sea freight has has gone down significantly just over the weekend, which is good, good news for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everyone, um, and I think, at the end of the day, the likes of evergreen and maersk just want to make money. You know, they don't want to make political statements, even though they do they just want to make money. So it's again the wheels of industry turning um, and I think that that's not such a threat as it's been and as the issues in the red sea will get sorted out, like you said, there'll be something else comes along next year or the year after. We'll, all you know, we'll all fret and wave our arms in the air and then eventually get the grips with it and everything will be fine and we'll have forgotten about it and we'll move on. So there's opportunity, there's opportunity, there's still opportunity.
Speaker 1:Uh, there are areas of the world which are still untapped. There are areas of of Southeast Asia where there is a skill set and, more importantly, there is a desire. There is a desire and hunger to have a better life. So I can see Vietnam coming, I can see Cambodia coming, countries like that. There's already a budding automotive industry framework set up in indonesia that will only develop as that country continues to develop. So you know, there are, there are areas, even without considering the infrastructures that exist in latin america it's interesting and it probably segues nicely into you into.
Speaker 2:I'm passionate about the North, North East and just the North in general and suppliers working together and networking and doing what they can to help each other out because, like you say, there's some threats out there which obviously can, because companies have got to keep the wheels turning and if there's cheaper options it's going to turn heads in certain situations. I've seen a big surge of networking, I would say, post-COVID. I think that was a time where companies lifted the bonnet up and started to help each other and I think some of the local alliances have really benefited from that, which I think is brilliant. How important do you think that is, and is that something you've been involved with, would you say in terms of as a business, that networking piece?
Speaker 1:Yes, we are. We are involved in quite a few of the local societies. We're active in the local societies, so we're evident. We buy a lot of product locally. We use a lot of engineered services. So painters play as speedy freight companies because from time to time we or our clients even need to have something in a hurry. So there's quite a bit of money tied up in that.
Speaker 1:He says, smiling with a wry smile. So you know. And then not to forget that our employees, our team, are all local. So you know we play a part in the local economy through the guys that we employ and their families. But we do reach out into the local community. We're involved in charities, we're involved in volunteer elements as well. We've got individuals in the business that are involved with that. That we support. So none of us are. I'm also passionate about North East. I was born and raised in Colbridge, so I'm a local boy as such. So I understand what it means to me. So I understand what it means to me and I understand what it means to a number of people within our business that we play our part and we will continue to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because it is difficult to put a return on investment in this type of stuff. You might find that we go to networking events and it's so hard sometimes to understand where that relationship's come from. But has that changed with the manufacturing where you know traditionally that it'll be the trade show?
Speaker 1:route for a lot of companies and versus networking?
Speaker 2:is it a case of just being diverse and getting to everything, or is it a case of understanding what works for the business and doubling down on what you say?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think we we have spent quite a bit of time in our selective approach. So it's understanding, not wanting to sound mercenary, but time and evaluating which are the better organisations, which are the better events to go to. But then we also attend events that we've been asked to for our support. Yeah, so we're not going to get anything out of it, fine, that's fine. We're there to support, we're not there to take. So you know, we do that as well. It's not, it's not just about one thing. Like you said, trade shows, we, we, we, uh. We will be exhibiting at the llama show in january, which is the biggest agricultural show in the uk. That's, that's mid-jan. We're doing a, an automotive exhibition, I believe it's in may. Also, we've got a rail exhibition this week, another rail exhibition in, uh, in november time, but then we do fair bit locally as well. So it's, it's mixing, matching as just to what's appropriate for us as a business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, love that, excellent. I'd like to get one part of advice. Ask you some advice on this, because you are someone who, at the age of 30, was, you know, board level PLC. You know it's rare stuff, you know really is in terms of that side. So you know we could have gone on. We could have had another podcast just about you and your career. So the question I'm going to ask you is I don't know if you've ever thought about this or not, but what advice would you give yourself now if you could go back? I'm going to say all those years ago?
Speaker 1:those years ago, from when you first started out, what would you say? Again, you're going to have to bleep out a few um, um. That's not a word when you're on a podcast, is it arrogance? Uh, arrogance, conceit, uh, I couldn't, couldn't possibly possibly tell you what my sister said to me, because you tend to take notice of your big sister. You have to now, you have to you do.
Speaker 1:And at that time, when I had aspired to that position and had money around my ankles and money around my shins, at the time you think you can walk on water and you can't. You're human, just like everybody else. And I allowed the position and the rarefied air of that position meeting Stockbroke as doing the rounds in the city, getting hooked into that intoxicating environment of believing that, well, it was like this every day, isn't it, isn't it? We get butlers serving us champagne and we go to fine restaurants. This is the norm for the lad from Corbridge, isn't it? No, it isn't. It was a make-believe world, and it took me a little while to, with the help of my sister, to actually walk through that and learn.
Speaker 1:So the advice that I would give the guy I am now to the guy I was then was to be far more using the word you brought up. Far more empathy, the word you brought up. Far more empathy, far more of the ability to listen and not to believe my own press. That actually it. It really is not that important. It's important what you're doing, what you're looking at, who you're working with, who you're bringing with you, who you've got engaged with you, who's part of it, who you care about, and it's not about you, it's not about you as the individual, about them, so them being whoever it is you're with in the team, uh, whether that's with my wife, whether that's with my kids, um, but also the, the group of people that we have closest around us, when, when we considering our career yeah, it's a brilliant answer.
Speaker 2:Brilliant answer, you know, what I find interesting as well is when people answer that as well, as ultimately, it would have been great to give ourselves advice, but actually it's made you who you are, and I imagine now when, when you leave people, you'll see certain individuals who remind yourselves of you at that age, but you know how to manage them because you know it's yeah it's marvellous when you're just like mm-hmm yeah it doesn't seem the manual cover coming yeah, yeah, but you've got to go through that age, that level of just I can't be.
Speaker 2:No one can touch me and yeah, it makes who you are yeah, interesting really interesting. Good question, good question oh yeah, interesting, really interesting, good question. Good question. And just before we part ways, what's the next sort of five, 10 years looking like for GMS? What's the plans? Some exciting stuff.
Speaker 1:We're in the throes of a scale-up.
Speaker 1:We've been through a program with RTC, which is Scale-Up Northeast, and we, particularly with the senior team, we started a development process at the beginning of the year, which is five-year plan, to look at repeated and assured growth, so all of the elements that come with that, which, obviously, starting with them really it starts with them as individuals and then them as a collective and them as a team, because they're going to be doing it um, which they bought into and they want to. So, yeah, that that's where we are. So five years is continued growth more into electric vehicles, more into automotive, um cement opposition in construction equipment we have a strong foothold in that and also, um moving into rail. We've been successful in the rail sector of late, so there's a lot more opportunities there to be had and continuing the development cycle, just never getting to the point. I keep saying to the guys never get to the point where you think you've done it, never get to the point where you think it's all behind. It isn't, it's all in front, it's all in front right answer.
Speaker 2:Look, thank you so much. It's been a real privilege actually. You know, you know the career you've had is is unbelievable. I know you're a humble man, so but uh, you know you've, you've done it, you know you've played down what you've done, but an amazing career career and loads and loads of great lessons in this episode for people, just in terms of the management styles, the empathy piece. There's some real specific stuff there about the supply chain piece and planning and all that comes with it. So it's been a great episode. I've learned loads. The time has flown. So thank you, andrew, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:No, thank you very much. I never thought I'd had anything interesting to say you have.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, thank you, that was great mate. Some of that was really really good.