Manufacturing Leaders

Ahead Of The Curve: Redefining Leadership For A New Generation

• Mark Bracknall • Season 9 • Episode 3

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Join us for an inspiring conversation with Charlie Goodfellow, the dynamic operations manager at Icon Plastics, who shares his remarkable journey through leadership and career progression. Discover how positive mentorship and a supportive company culture propelled Charlie to a prominent position in the manufacturing industry. His story offers invaluable insights into overcoming challenges like imposter syndrome and highlights the crucial role of effective communication, honesty, and integrity in leadership.

Explore Charlie's reflections on career progression, where he candidly discusses the struggles of finding motivation and direction post-university. Learn about the pivotal moments that spurred him to make his parents proud and realize his potential. Hear how Icon Plastics fosters internal growth, emphasizing the impact of mentorship and linking personal contributions to meaningful, life-changing projects, ultimately enhancing both employee satisfaction and product quality.

As we look to the future, Charlie sheds light on how Icon Plastics is embracing innovation and sustainability. From video-based SOPs to 3D printing, the company is committed to harmonizing human creativity with technological advancement. Discover the challenges of adapting to new technologies and the strategies for guiding teams through these transitions. This episode is packed with insights for aspiring leaders and industry veterans alike, offering a fresh perspective on the evolving landscape of manufacturing and the development of future leaders.

Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I'm fine, but I'm buzzing you out on me, I can't wait for it. What I tend to do now, after we've finished our chat, basically I record an introduction after you've gone, basically. So I sort of summarize the episode after. So when we start, I just sort of go straight into it. So basically I'll give you one of you. So I don't give it like a formal introduction, if that makes sense. Have you listened to any?

Speaker 2:

yeah any I've done. Yeah, I have. Yeah, sounds, you got an idea. I mean the same first questions all the same, but they're really conversational. Do you know what I mean? Like you know, we'll just have a, have a chat. Is anything else on that list, so to speak, that you want me to sort of you thought about anything? You want me to segue you into anything like that at all?

Speaker 1:

um, I've just, I've made a few notes on, uh, most of the bits, to be fair, so just whatever, whenever it flows, whatever you think, whatever direction you want to take it in, I don't mind, I really don't how much you want to speak about because some businesses kind of want the exposure, some somewhere a bit private.

Speaker 2:

How much you want to speak about the business and stuff because it's I think it's a good opportunity to yeah, I mean, as you can tell, I've strategically placed myself behind.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it is it is.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean. It sounds daft, but I always say, you know, use it for your own internal recruitment and all that type of stuff, because it's a non-corporate way to actually lift the bonnet. But you know what I really like the fact that you know. It's clear they give people like you young leaders and opportunities. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

I think that that's, and we'll talk about that, but I think that's a really good selling point for business.

Speaker 2:

You might be the youngest person I've ever had. How old are you? Don't want me asking, I'm 28. So, yeah, I think you, uh, you could be, you could. There's one chap who, uh, I think that's you know, and that's what we'll talk about as well, because I think the opportunity you've had at such a short space time is superb, mate. So, um, excellent, when you're ready, mate, I'll just, I'll just kick off and we'll go, if that's okay with you yeah, yeah, no problems excellent.

Speaker 2:

So a massive warm welcome today to charlie goodfellow, the operations manager at icon plastics. Um, how are you, charlie? You're good, I'm great. Thanks. How are you, mark? I'm good, mate, I'm really good. You know what I'm really looking forward this one, because you know we're about two and a half years into this podcast now and you know what I always wanted to be was a platform which would share value back into the industry and help essentially your up-and-coming managers really. But the fact I'm quite proud of this giving opportunities from like yourself, who is a young don't ask, don't tell me 28, unbelievably well in their career, and I think this will be a real inspiration for all those young leaders that they can do it and they can do it quickly. They don't have to wait decades to do so. So I think you might be the youngest person we've had on here. So, yeah, well done for that already.

Speaker 1:

I really appreciate the opportunity You're reaching out. Are you sure you want to interview me? I'm sure there's a bit. Are you sure you want to interview me? I'm sure there's people there with more experience.

Speaker 2:

But no, I really do appreciate it. No, I'm really looking forward to it. So first question is the same question I see everyone which is what does it mean to you to be a leader? What do you say?

Speaker 1:

So I've been through a lot of diverse roles in a lot of different industries and I've seen different leadership styles and for me, there's been people that have left a positive impression on me and molded me and allowed me to become a better person. So if I can reflect that as a leader, that's just the end goal for me, to be honest with you yeah, nice, so it's for you.

Speaker 2:

Then it's more about, because I always find interesting why people become leaders, you know. I mean, I think people want to be. Some people are born people. This is a debate itself, but some people, I think, are leaders because people want to be. Some people are born you're born. That's a debate in itself. But some people, I think are leaders because they want to lead people and that's their sort of inspiration. Some people, like you, have had great leaders then and want to give back. It sounds like it's the latter for you to almost repay, yeah definitely yeah.

Speaker 1:

I've had mentors, I've been at low points in my life and different careers and those people have left such a positive impression and enabled growth with me and progression to where I am today. I'd love to be able to do that to the person and pass that along and carry on. And obviously there is an accolade with being a leader and I am driven and I want to succeed, so that plays a part as well, but it is mainly just being able to facilitate other people's journeys.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think one thing we're going to get back to a lot is how well you've done in such a short space of time, because that in itself is inspirational. I'd like to sort of go back, because I think it'd be important for people to understand the background you've had, because you're a 28-year-old operations manager of a successful manufacturing business and that in itself is excellent. But let's go back to to when you started. Right, you're saying was it x forces? Was it ref? Was that the background?

Speaker 1:

yeah so um, my my first real career, my first ever job role was in the ref. Um I did communications, um that just really laid the foundation for the rest of my life and the rest of my career, the values that I uphold the attributes are looking in people all come from that initial career path in the RAF.

Speaker 2:

And was that? Was it always something you wanted to get into? Then the RAF what was what led to that?

Speaker 1:

No, it wasn't to be honest with you. I did really well in school and I founded in college. I fell off the path straight away and the RAF provided the opportunities and the things that I needed in myself to keep me grounded uh, discipline, uh, routine, x, y and z.

Speaker 2:

So that's what attracted me to it, because that's what I needed at that time in my life and obviously you get people who stay in, stay in forces for, you know, for the whole career and just progress within it, because the progression was obviously fantastic. You get other people who you see you've been there for sort of two to five years, wherever it is, and then move. Was it always a? You were a short space of time, you wanted to learn your trade and come out, or what was the thought process there?

Speaker 1:

um, I wanted to stay in for the long haul. To be honest with you, um, I made some great friends, friends for life. There's different experiences you to travel the world, some of the things that my friends have done, who've stayed in for a lot longer than me, they're just fantastic. But I wasn't at that point in my life. I wasn't enjoying my job role, so to say, with the engineering. I knew I wanted to come out and have a shot at something to do with business. That was what made me want to get up in the morning, something that I'm actually interested in. So a lot of the opportunities and I think was great and the progression was great. I just wanted to try and go out and do something different yeah, nice, how can the bit?

Speaker 2:

what was the inspiration behind the business piece then?

Speaker 1:

was that sort of family stuff, or uh, no, I've always wanted to run my own business. Okay, uh, that's.

Speaker 2:

That's what kick-started it yeah, yeah, is that, is that the for you to again? Is that part of the leadership piece in terms of to lead people, or was it just something to build something again? What was? Because I guess people have businesses for different reasons um, I just wanted to build, I want.

Speaker 1:

I was determined, I wanted to work for myself. I was seeing areas of businesses and work for people under them and I thought, oh, I think I can do this and maybe improve a little bit on the way that they were operating. That's just what drived me and yeah, so I left the RAF and decided to go to university to get my business degree, which is something that I've never done and just jump into the deep end, really.

Speaker 2:

What was that like? Coming out of the RAF straight into Civic Street, straight into university, I guess, mixing with people who had not come through that room, I imagine did you? Did you feel any any difference there?

Speaker 1:

yeah, definitely, um, because I was a little bit older when I went to university instead of your standard 18 years old, I've suddenly felt like I was a little bit behind everyone else. I was behind the curve, I was a more mature student, um, and transferring to civilian life, like you say it's, it's completely different to having that you, you're told, you're regimented, you're up at this time, you've got these duties to do X, y and Z. You've got to keep your kit to this standard when you come out. There's loads of different variables. There's nothing set in stone, so you have to adjust to that. But the skills and the mindset that the RAF you with integrity, discipline, um, encouragement, communication skills, it just carries over. So it did benefit my university career yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Do you think, though, those traits that, do you think they're traits you had and you just needed the right environment to bring them out, or do you think they taught you that?

Speaker 1:

um, a bit of both, to be honest with you. Um, the fact that they tell you not not tell you how it, but they facilitate how you should act in this uh, integrity is a core value. It's driven into you. It was something that I had when I was in school. I was, I was head boy in school. I did really well in school and then in college I left. I left that behind, a part of me behind, and that discipline and that structure and that support network facilitated that. To come back through and come to the top again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, nice. And now, what drives you? Because you're obviously someone that's very passionate and very driven. What drives you now? What gets you out of bed in the morning?

Speaker 1:

I just want to be better than I was yesterday. I don't see an end goal. I just want to keep progressing, progressing, progressing and just doing the best that I can. I want to be able to look back at my life and have no regrets, Not the ifs, buts and maybes, and a little bit scared, Because if you feel apprehensive and a little bit scared about doing something, you're more than likely doing the right thing in life, aren't you?

Speaker 2:

And I've learned that and I think what's different now, potentially for what maybe wasn't the case, even probably 15, 10, 15 years ago, I think there's more resources out there now. Do you know what I mean? I think you know social media, quite you know, gets a lot of stick for the pressures it puts on young people, and you know I'm 39. I didn't really grow up with social media. I'm pleased with that, you know, in terms of when I was at school and stuff, it wasn't there. But actually I think the resources you look at YouTube or whatever the Me Too's there's stuff out there now which can inspire you. Did you use platforms like that to help you with that gap?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely LinkedIn. I was looking at people's profiles who had the same career role as what I wanted to do, looked at their progression. What skills do they have, what qualifications do they have Going to university? They want you to do that. They want you to go out there and look around looking at the industry, like industry 5.0, all the different revolutions and stuff like that and because you're constantly learning and expanding and I've taken that and I carried that on after university, where I think a lot of people stop because they're not forced to do assignments and look out elsewhere, I've continued to do that and I think that's what's enabled me to progress yeah.

Speaker 2:

Do you have you ever felt different to depends on your friends group. Have you ever felt different? Uh, people you've grown up with or people around you?

Speaker 1:

yeah, and it's a stark contrast between me and my mates yeah yeah, completely different. I'm more of a. I think they'd class me as someone that they trust with the finances, stuff like that. Whereas they're a bit off the rails or potentially they're just happy doing a nine to five, they don't want the extra stress that comes with it. They want to be able to clock off after work.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, cause I think what you'll find is you'll probably get two different people who listen to this podcast. In terms of you probably have hopefully have young people who are listening going right. In terms of you probably have hopefully have young people who are listening going right, that's just good. That's just giving me the kick up the arse and I need to sort of get myself set because I can, you know, it's inspired me. You also get parents of people who are, perhaps, you know, 16, 17, and they're worried that their son or daughter haven't really got that motivation or drive or they don't know what they want to do. Do you know what they want to do? Do you know what I mean? Again, do you think that's something that, again, you can, you can, just find? Did you ever lose your way in any, any sort of time?

Speaker 1:

yeah, uh, like I said during college, I was predicted three years. I was going to go to university, I was going to do chemical engineering and my attendance must have been about 20. I had no drive, no motivation. I just gave up. To be honest with you, I I wasn't bothered and uh, and obviously joining the ref. But getting myself back to physical fitness, I couldn't run, I couldn't do the press ups, so I was doing that every night. You've just got to flip the switch and you've got a days where you're not motivated. You still got to have the discipline to go and do the tasks that you need to do. I think that's massive. Motivation comes and goes, whereas discipline doesn't. It stays with you. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

What was the catalyst to change then, Thinking back in terms of I think it was making my parents proud.

Speaker 1:

I think, and, to be honest, I seen, uh, one of the lads I used to be in school with and he was like, oh God, out of everyone. I thought that you'd have been doing so well, you'd have been doing X, y and Z, and I was like, do you know what, reflecting on it, I am capable of doing this.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, I not. What's nice is that they'd they'd already seen in you what you were, where you are now privacy yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah previously seen that.

Speaker 2:

So, um, you know, fast forward. I guess we'll rewind, but fast forward after university, going into the, the big by world where a lot of people you know will experience this. You know you'll have. You'll have probably at that stage been at a better um stage at some people coming out of, you know, graduating, because at least you've got the RF behind you, but it's still a big, wide world. You've got to find a job. Where's your head up there and what were the steps after that?

Speaker 1:

I was already working at Sainsbury's part-time while I was at university. I was a colleague for about three months and then I was opening for a store manager, so I put my name forward for that and got the job role. So I was a part-time store manager while I was at university and that obviously coincides massively with the my business degree. So it gave me a wealth of experience and something that I wasn't experienced in, obviously, with the RAF it was more engineering. I'd never really done anything to do with business. I'd studied it, but I'd never had that first-hand experience and being able to put anything into practice that I'd learned in the classroom. So that really gave me the ability to test leadership skills and test the way I wanted to delegate tasks. And it was an old work base. There were a lot of experienced colleagues and there was me there who'd never worked there before suddenly being a star manager.

Speaker 1:

After three months experience I didn't know how to do the tools properly still little things like that and I'm telling them what to do. So I found like quite a large backlash and it took me a while to overcome that, um, like you say, imposter syndrome. All the rest of it I was. I was like why? Why have they given me this role when there's so many more experienced people than me? You second guess yourself, but that was probably the best, the best opportunity for me, and it was the best thing that I did yeah, it's a massive challenge, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

because often in any industry they'll they'll accelerate someone's career path if they can see that future in there, like they would have been for you. But when you're thrust into that and suddenly you've got to train people who are you know, it could be double your age. That's the reason you could have been there for 20 years, you know, and and you're probably thinking, and double your age, that's the ratio, could have been there for 20 years. And you're probably thinking, and they're maybe thinking, who's this kid? Try and tell me what to do, do you know?

Speaker 1:

what I mean. Well, some of them made that pretty vocal. Yeah, it was hard to break down those barriers and show them that I was competent and I was capable of doing the job well.

Speaker 2:

And reflecting now what you know from going through that. And and what? What did you do? Do you mean? What are the sort of? What would you do if you did it again? What? How would you do it?

Speaker 1:

I think it's learning people's mannerisms and how to talk to them and how to be persuasive. I think, being a leader, you have to get people to buy into your vision and your your. You're telling people to do things and you tell them to carry out tasks, but why? Why would they commit to that? Why would they do it your way? So you've got to be persuasive in the way that you put things across and clear and concise.

Speaker 1:

And I think what was massive for me was I owned the fact that I was a novice, that I didn't know much, so when I made mistakes, I would be the first person to look home hands up I'm wrong. Is there any way that you would have done this so I don't do it wrong in the future? And giving them the ability to have their insight and see me grow because of them built the relationship with us and by the end of it, they were all sad to see me leave, hopefully out of interest that, that way of management, because I'll ask you the reason why I'm asking this, but ask it after that way of that honesty piece.

Speaker 2:

You know, in terms of transparency honesty piece. You know, in terms of transparency honesty piece, was that something you'd learn from university how to manage, or was that come naturally or that felt like the thing to do at the time?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that felt natural to me and I think that comes from the integrity in the RAF. If you made a mistake or someone else made a mistake, it was a lot easier to just hold your hands and go look, I've done this and just accept the consequences and move on with it. You don't have time to beat around the bush. It's just quick, concise, go, go, go all the time and I think that carried over into the way that I manage, in the way that I look at the business world yeah, that's really interesting.

Speaker 2:

Because the reason I ask is when I, when I speak to a lot of people in here, let's say the you know 45, 50-year-old managers who've managed for a long time sometimes when I ask them the question, what would you do differently if you could start at least your journey again? And I've regularly had the when they started out they pretended to know it all because they were scared of that transparency piece. But as they've learned, as they get older, that isn't necessarily the best way to get respect, and I think that and I've seen management change now and I'm seeing people like yourself come in and just be honest, because I think people really respect that that type of environment, don't they?

Speaker 1:

I think the old school top-down management is just slowly getting weeded out. It doesn't work, does it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's an equilibrium, it's a level playing field. Everyone has their special specialities and everyone can bring something different to the business. And without laws, different parts the business doesn't turn over, it's not profitable, it's not efficient.

Speaker 2:

Yeah 100% and it is such a good mentality to have because you're absolutely right, that dictatorship type culture is just, it's just dead and I still see it in some businesses. But they are the type of businesses I also see with a very high turnover, a churn of staff and and nothing changes because it is that that sort of top down. So completely agree. So moving into manufacturing, obviously you know retail, you know what I think retail. Fantastic backgrounds are very, very difficult, being with people on a daily basis, dealing with problems on a daily basis. Those graduate schemes, I think are superb. How did you find, ultimately, and how did you decide to get into manufacturing, because I'm always interested in that.

Speaker 1:

So I met the CEO of the company while I was out and I was originally brought on to do the social media management of another side company that he, he, was uh facilitating, yeah, um, and it, just it just grew from there, um, I don't know how to describe it right place, right time, I guess. Um, I proved myself that I was capable of doing more and I just slowly got more and more responsibility yeah, and, and, now operations.

Speaker 2:

But so how long have you been in your, your role as ops manager?

Speaker 1:

now then, because how long have you been there? For now sort of uh three, three years um, about two and a bit years now, um two and a half years maybe, I think. I've been doing the operations manager role for about 10 months really okay.

Speaker 2:

And and how did that? Was that? Was it natural? And again, when you came in, did you see that was the route for you, or is that just the way it happened?

Speaker 1:

that that's what I wanted to do. Obviously, the manufacturing and the engineering background had a crossover, so I had an understanding of the terminology where I could sit down and say I was meeting and understand what the customer wanted, how we'd be able to get that outcome for them. So there was a crossover there. What was new was, uh, managing like operations, looking at resource, uh allocation, uh, financial was massive. I'm still really really learning how to be good financially and yeah. So there was a crossover there. But and I could see myself doing that role, that was what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a leader and that gave me the opportunity to do that.

Speaker 2:

Was it obvious from the start they were going to put that trust into you? I mean, if you said to your two and a half years ago you'd be up to manage it, Was that obvious or was it a surprise to you?

Speaker 1:

No, it's a surprise. I'm still surprised every day. I'm really grateful for the opportunity that Icon Plastics have given me, the faith that they show in me every single day. I've got two great leaders. Both the directors are in the same office as me so I can lean on them, ask for advice and, yeah, it's just enabled me to grow, like you say, in such a short period of time. Without the faith and the respect that they have for me, I'd have never been in this position. I am really lucky I know I am that I fell into this company at the right time, I suppose.

Speaker 2:

It's just refreshing because it's rare that happens. You know, realistically, you know if there's an opportunity in a manufacturing business, you know operations manager there, they typically go external and go right. Okay, who have we got, with 10, 15, 20 years experience because we want to kick this company off. Do you know what I mean? So that level of trust is really given to someone. Is that culture run through the business? Because it's not a business I know too well. So, in terms of, does it run through the culture of business? How does that work?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, as a company as a whole, especially since I've been here we'd much rather promote from within. You know the person, you know their attributes, you know that they're a good employee, so why would you look elsewhere? Why would you spend the money potentially recruiting, retraining someone? It just makes sense to promote from within and every given opportunity the company has and will do that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thanks. So, in terms of you know and your leadership, now then, how you're getting mentored, I guess, by the two owners, which is which is which is great, how much flexibility and how much autonomy you're given to with your team and for new people. How, how does that work?

Speaker 1:

in terms of training for new employees, yeah, that type of stuff, yeah because yeah, yeah I imagine you're now tasked with growing the, you know the new generation of people to come into icon as well yeah, so we've got two apprentices uh that have taken on both on the technical team on different sides the production side and the maintenance side. Yeah, we do. On the job training uh. What we've started doing recently quite a lot is uh getting the end product with plastic components. It might look insignificant. Why is this so important? Why is the quality so important? Why are we doing this x, y and z test when you see all of different components in the final build uh?

Speaker 1:

One of our customers, endomag. They build uh breast cancer units so it assists in breast cancer surgeries, um, and it's revolutionizing the way that that's carried out. So for them to see the lens that they've manufactured, the base that they've manufactured, all assembled and how it functions, it gives them a real sense of pride and an understanding. So that's what we're rolling out at the minute and we're seeing really great results where they know where the end of life the product is and what it's used for.

Speaker 2:

It's brilliant that, and you know what that for me links with. If what she was fired. It's brilliant that and you know what that for me links with. If I, if I, if I think of the look of the data that we get all the time, but why people stay in businesses and why they leave, salaries obviously will always be number one. People will tick that box. But after that you're looking at um flexibility, but then you're looking at that progression piece which you're talking about there. Without that, progression is there, but actually the new generation of people coming through it's purpose and they want to be part of something which actually makes a difference. They're not just saying they do, they really do, and I've seen that firsthand now. So companies will do amazing things, like working with that client you're working with there, which are helping to save lives, and I think people want to be part of that.

Speaker 1:

I mean, do you feel that internally, that it feels like important projects work with stuff like that? Yeah, definitely 100, like you say, it gives them value. It's like, oh, look, my work's contributed to that, I've had help in hand in building this. Uh, we've, we've uh, increased successful breast cancer surgeries by x amount. They, they have had a serious hand in in contributing to that. So it gives it. Yeah, like you say, it gives them validation, it makes them realize that the the job and the work that are carrying out really is worthwhile, even, uh, in terms of the stuff that we manufacture for the seating components for our automotive customer, we've got a complete unit built up that they can come in, sit down and we'll go this look, there's that part, this is part, this forms part of the electrical components and we've really seen an uplift in the quality of work since doing that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think I'd like to talk about quality a little bit, because I think you know it's quite topical in manufacturing now. You know there's a war on price and there's always been a war on price and there's always been a war on price with China and another country I know last time we spoke you talked about Dubai as well and what have you but ultimately quality is the most important. It should be the most important part for any client, have you? It sounds like you've really doubled down on that quality piece to make sure that the sales come with and obviously the client ultimately is happy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so the company's portfolio is completely built on return custom um, as custom customers have grown. Icon plastics have grown because we've been given new contracts, because the quality of work, our turnaround, our stockholding agreements, the relationships that we've built the foundation of that is the quality of the components that we supply into them on time each week, each month, um, so I mean the the portfolio is basically based around maybe 10 to 15 customers, uh, that have been with the company since its uh creation, so around 15 years ago, and what's really great is they've grown and we've grown alongside them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. How do you Go on?

Speaker 1:

sorry, I was just saying. We'd never be able to do that without the quality being there. That's the primary factor. You're completely right, and we're constantly changing. We're rolling out a new program at the minute with SOPs that are on videos. We're doing away with all the paperwork. We're doing visual boundaries. We're away with all the paperwork. Uh, we're doing visual boundaries. We're doing a new quality alerts. It's real-time information. Uh, that comes back from the machine and, uh, the wormer that we've used.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so yeah, it's great, yeah how, where do the, where do these ideas come from? Is this owners, is this staff? How do you? I guess, because I'm passionate about that continuous improvement piece and how companies can continue to sort of obviously improve. But where do the ideas for that have come from?

Speaker 1:

internally, would you say we have a town hall meeting so everyone from operators all the way up to directors are free to attend. We have that every month. Uh, we get ideas from there. Uh, the quality department will bring forward ideas that will come from the owners. I might have an idea here and there.

Speaker 1:

And because it's a family-based business, there's no board of directors, although there is directors that you have to go through to allocate funding. If they can see that that's going to facilitate change and make a serious improvement, they'll allocate the money to do it. They'll say go on, we trust in you, we have the faith in you. Go develop that and deliver that project. And that's massive. In the two-year period maybe a little bit longer that I've been here, the level of investment is just second to none for sme, for someone that's turning over and doing pretty well, for them to invest that much money just shows the commitment that they have to the employees and the business itself. Whether it's new machinery 3d printers we've got 3d scanners for our quality department it's just numerous and it's new machinery 3D printers We've got 3D scanners for our quality department it's just numerous.

Speaker 2:

And it's great to see it makes you feel comfortable. It's exciting that the growth's there. Yeah, I love that I had this conversation today. That new technology and innovation is actually amazing, particularly for younger generation People towards the end of their career. Actually, it's something new and it's a big change and they might not be on board with that. You know, for you, being in a role where you are operations and you've got to lead people and leave them in front, how do you change sort of win hearts and minds and starts when something new comes in? You're not always going to get yeses, are you going to get? I imagine you've got some resistance as well of course.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's always resistance to change the element of trust, especially if it's technology based. I think you have to prove it, prove its competency and most of the time you're bringing in a process improvement which is going to make the employee's life better. They just need to realize that that's the case and obviously it's sitting them down with the whether it's a program or software running them through how you use it and showing them the ROI on their time, facilitating the data input. It's going to change the role a little bit, but it's going to be better in the long run as long as they understand that anyone will get behind it.

Speaker 1:

I understand where you're coming from because at university I did my dissertation on industry 5.0. So I think that manufacturing's been based around process improvements in terms of technology, but they've founded and left the employee behind. Uh, the, whereas in industry 5.0 is bringing that back, that focus back to the employee. You did, fair enough, leverage all of the softwares and the technologies that you want to do, but the, the basis of any company is their employee and, uh, they have that creative thinking that, um, that ai doesn't have.

Speaker 2:

So being able to have that collaboration between the two systems is massive, and that's the future of manufacturing, I think yeah, I completely agree because and again, it's, it's, it's your role as leader to try to um keep people at ease through these changes, because people are scared of this stuff. Do you know what I mean? You hear scaremonger, it's going to take our jobs and this type of stuff. And you know, particularly on the offer they operate all this type. You know that it's no one really knows what's exactly going to happen. Do you know what I mean? But I completely agree with what you're talking about. It's that collaboration piece. You know. People tell me all day long that my job as a recruiter is going to go to ai. That's fine, there'll be, there'll be certain things which will be given to ai, but I will still argue that you need that human interaction to work alongside it is. Are these discussions happening in your business? Now we tell them yeah.

Speaker 1:

So we're looking up, I mean, what we can afford with the level of investment. That's one of the major challenges and the things that's stopping SMEs and places of business and small manufacturers like ourselves from pushing forward and being able to keep with the times. Obviously, you have to do that, though you have to iterate. You've got to constantly change. Continuous improvements massive. So those conversations are going on. I think what we've noticed as well is that there's going to be a skills shortage. It's going to be more technically based. The repetitive tasks loading, offloading machines is going to be carried out by automation. But that's going to improve employee ergonomics, things like that, their workload. It will free up their time to focus on more worthwhile jobs and tasks.

Speaker 2:

I think that's massive I completely agree because actually and I think it's for me, it's, you know, I'm quite I'm not optimistic about this. But actually what? What's what's difficult to find people for nowadays? It's to get people into manufacturing, engineering, to do those difficult tasks, because actually the low paid and you can probably do a less stress and easier job in in some of the retail, whatever it is for a very similar, if not more, money. But actually, what are people interested in? They're interested in technology. They're interested in computers. Yeah, they're interested in how things, how things work. But that's exactly the type of skills you're going to need, aren't they?

Speaker 2:

Do you know what I?

Speaker 1:

mean.

Speaker 2:

And I think, if it's just for me, it's an upskilling, but also making sure, if we can do, get into schools now and colleges now and teaching people these skills so they're ready. So I I see it's an opportunity I really do I agree with you.

Speaker 1:

I'm I'm excited, um, you've got to embrace the times. It's going to change, whether you like it or not, so you may as well understand the change and be able to grow and leverage it. Do your research, it's going to happen, basically.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I completely agree. If we fast forward 15, 20 years' time there given the experience you've got and the research you've done, I guess then what do you see in manufacturing facility? You know, if you're looking at Icon Plastics now, let's go 20 years on, what do you think? What does it look like? Do you think in your eyes?

Speaker 1:

I think it's more of the smart factory. So it's the communication between each different software, the integration between them, everything. So if you're, if there's a press and it's suddenly uh, the productivity is going down, that'll be able to speak to the computer system which will notify the maintenance engineer. You need to go look at this exact component so their workloads minimized and that will just drive productivity. Maybe not to that degree in 15 to 20 years.

Speaker 1:

Like I say, it's investment and making sure that you've got the employees that have the skills and knowledge to be able to facilitate these softwares and advantages. But that's definitely the employees that have the skills and knowledge to be able to facilitate these softwares and advantages. But that's definitely the way that it's going to go. Even augmented reality, I think that would be big for manufacturing. So, having the overlay for the operator, I think the training will be carried out by that skype and teams tours, maintenance engineers who don't know how to access a certain thing can have a specialist and showing them exactly what to do and what to take off and what valves replace. I think yeah, it's exciting when you think about it I think it's so exciting.

Speaker 2:

I do because you know, and the uk is a is a powerhouse, it always has been. But we need that investment to make sure that companies can afford, because, you said it yourself, these things are not cheap, and they are not cheap and and and if other countries are investing, then we're not, we'll get left behind, because ultimately, you know, as operations, the quality is important, but you know, you as is price. But actually, if you're going to get businesses that can do things quicker and the quality is still there, we're in trouble yeah, it's like you said.

Speaker 1:

um, obviously we've. We had a customer who went to Dubai for some work. We ended up bringing those tools back in-house because the quality wasn't there. But it will get to a point where they'll be able to compete with us on a quality standpoint. So we have to constantly change, continuous improvement, leverage these softwares to have the edge on them. If we can't compete in terms of labor prices, we have to be better in other areas. It's as simple as that. When you're completing on a global scale, now you're not just completing with the factory down the road anymore, it's across the world, it's global.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100%. Do you think? You know you're around people sort of mid-20s and what have you, and do you think, and even if you look at the last 10 years, do you think that manufacturing, engineering, the awareness is still there in terms of exactly what you're talking about there, the types of kit and equipment to deal with? Is the awareness there, or are we a long way behind you think?

Speaker 1:

I don't. I don't think that the awareness is there per se. No, I really don't. I think you've still got to go out there and do a bit of digging yourself to see what's going on. What are the new trends? Everyone knows about AI, but it's all the other things that come alongside of it. I don't think it's there. It is pushed in university, but if you're not going to university and your education stops at school or college point, then I think you've still got to go out there and do a bit of digging yourself to fully understand what's going on.

Speaker 2:

Yes, same. I still don't think that there's that awareness of um what careers money you can earn, what progression there is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's going to be so many future job roles that don't exist now, in 10 or 15 years time, so it's it's. It's getting the populace prepared for that, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

A hundred percent. You know, even looking at sustainability and that and that piece, how that's going to radically change manufacturing. And you know creating new roles. You know the people, you know you're now getting sustainability managers and you know these roles just didn't exist because you know it never needed. But it's another massive change that factories are working towards. Is that something you sort of started to touch on, that sort of that journey?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely. I think that's the future of plastics. It's went from being a negative to a positive. Um, I think that's what we're going to push. We're going to be the green link in the supply chain for a lot of our customers and I think that's how we're going to keep. You know, we were talking about that repeat custom. We want to show them look, we've got this recycled grade material that has the same properties as your virgin material, but you're saving x, y and z on carbon emissions. Um, I think. I think that's the way that plastics is going to continue its growth, especially with bioplastics with recycle. Grid is obviously a finite resource out there. If it comes from cars, there's only so many cars that you're getting churned down and the plastics are getting taken off. So it's the same issue with the virgin material. It will eventually run out. But if, if, when bioplastics get here and they are getting here that's definitely going to be the future 100%.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you're absolutely bang on. You know how important it is as well. I had no idea about this. One of my clients has a company called BTS Fabrication and they were talking they've done a lot in this space, but actually when initially they had an assessor to come in to see where they were at, it doesn't matter where they're at, because they've got to look at supply chain. You know supply chain was 75% of the carbon footprint. But actually that's where I see companies like you will have an advantage, because if you can show as a supplier, that you are ahead of the game with that, then you will be better than your competition. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I think I've lost. You. Hope you're there, mate. Hello, oh, I lost you. You back, I can hear you can't see you yep, I don't know what happened then you're back, it's fine, I'll uh, you can just cut it out.

Speaker 2:

Um, I'll go again. Um, not 100%. You know what? I think that's where you've got an opportunity, because it's one of my clients. It's called BTS Fabric, based in Newtonscliff, and Phil was talking about when they got assessed in terms of where they were at and where their carbon footprint was at. They were in a great place, but actually that was the 75% was their supply chain, and if they don't come on the journey with them, they can never meet their targets. So this is why, if you are a supplier, it's an absolute must, isn't it? To make sure that you're in a good space, because it also means you can use any advantage to win, to win new business, because your competition aren't there yeah, 100.

Speaker 1:

It's like you say. It's a customer demand. Now it's, it's out there. It's out there for a good reason the way the industry has worked, manufacturing's worked. It's. It's a linear. It needs to be circular for us to continue and continue having jobs and for us to still have resources to use. I think we're lucky in the plastics industry. Ours is pretty circular. All of the products that are scrap are sprues. We can regrind, we can reprocess, we can reuse, we can reuse recycled grade material. Although we're heavy in terms of energy consumption, we've deployed uh solar panels on the top of our roof. So there's ways and means around it. And yeah, like you say, it is the future. You've got to embrace it. And it is the future of the business in terms of securing new, new clients and continuing the journey with the clients that you've already got yeah, 100 percent.

Speaker 2:

I'm Getting back to the leadership briefly for a wrap up. You've obviously, like you said, and you really are an inspiration in terms of for a lot of people, what you've done, what is left for you in terms of you know, what gaps do you think I need to plug this, to be the leader I want to be ultimately long-term, and you've got a head start of most people because of where you're at. What are the areas you think you want to concentrate on?

Speaker 1:

What do you say? That's a hard question to ask. I think I'm still learning. I'm nowhere near. I still have a little bit of imposter syndrome. I think I'm still learning every day. I'm learning the manufacturing sector. I'm learning what does and doesn't work with people. What I find hard to this day is having those difficult conversations with employees where the performance is dropping or their attendance hasn't been great, and having to sit down and speak with the people, because once you've built the relationship that I like to build with people, it may. It's, I feel like sometimes maybe it's a little bit too in, uh, not professional I don't know what the terminology is for that so it makes it difficult for me to sit down and suddenly be like that I'm your manager. This is a serious concern that we're having, so I think I need to work on being approachable but still professional.

Speaker 2:

I think that's massive for me and you know what I've struggled with that over the years I have because, you know, not that I want to be everyone's friend, but ultimately we have an inbuilt something inside us that we want people, we like to get on with people. You're a personal person, so you want that. I battled with it for a long time and then I went for a stage where I almost withdrew myself in terms of, you know, asking about who they really were and get to know them, because I was. But actually I just think you are who you are, you know, and if you're someone who wants to to really get to know someone and and be at a very friendly level with them, that's absolutely fine because that's how you are. That's my opinion. But, like you say, you know, there does come a time where you have to have difficult conversations. I think to some extent you you touch on it a midway through a conversation. You can, you can bring data into these things, do you know?

Speaker 2:

I mean, I think that's yeah, yeah that's what held me, that actually you can. You know, sometimes you have to manage by the numbers and manufacturing. You can do that, can't you?

Speaker 1:

oh, 100. Yeah, I mean, we we do do a lot of work, so, like everything, she was at the bradford factor score and we have key performance indicators throughout the business, so I do lean on that, yeah, but that's just something that personally I find I find a little bit hard just to step into that professional mode and suddenly, yeah, be almost a bearer of bad news, I suppose. But it is needed. Attendance and time keeping is the primary basis of everything, isn't it so?

Speaker 2:

because you're you. You're often driven by wanting to help people. You know what I mean. You are driven by wanting to make people feel good and sort of empower them, which is a fantastic trait to have. The negative side of that is you feel that more when something you've said has made them feel. Do you know what I mean? Irrespective of if it's justifiable or not, which I'm sure it is, there is a difficult one to build a swallow, because you know I'm. I completely feel that. But look, and these the real thing those leaders need to know, because it isn't an easy job, is it?

Speaker 1:

it is, isn't no no, it's not, yeah, it's. It's not nine to five either as well. I'll have phone calls at any given time of the day and you've got to be there mentally to support, haven't you? I think, because I was operations coordinator prior to this as well. I was looking at how am I going to get this material in, how is that press going to run? And now I'm looking at the bigger picture. I'm looking at everything like why I'm driving down to that, and I think that I need to keep that mindset going now that I'm operations manager, instead of just coordinating and facilitating the material purchasing and the operations and the way that the shop floor is running.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, how do you manage your mindset? You know this might be out of work as well, because you take a lot home with you in a job as a manager. It's always there, you're switching off, but you're always thinking about the decision you've got to make or you have made, haven't you?

Speaker 1:

oh, 100%. Yeah, um, I, I enjoy my job. I like coming to work. Every day is different. It's not mundane. I've done jobs where it's just like hitting your head against the wall for nine, eight or nine hours. Yeah, and I, I'm lucky, I, I really appreciate the position that I'm in, the fact that I get to learn every day and meet new people. So, taking stuff home and being able and having to deal with things at home, it's just part and parcel of it and I don't, I really don't mind it, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that. And just finally, you know, in terms of Icon, you've you've spoke a lot of the business and really inspirational for people to hear. What are the next sort of 12 to 18 months looking like A few things on the horizon?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, really positive. We've got about four live projects, some new tooling coming in for our automotive customer, again growing with them, securing more and more work, more and more higher level work as well, especially, more high value production. Value adding is massive for Icon in the future. Uh, we have our customers now. We want to keep them. We want to get them tied in with us, if you'd like. So we're looking at uh doing some serious uh complex assemblies for uh, some of our telecommunications customers. Uh, we already do value adding, but it's very minimal, like glass kits and stuff like that inserting. So we're looking to level that up and potentially building on the new site, whether that be a warehouse or a new factory, depending on how well we do so, yeah, really, really positive things.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, great to hear. And just very finally, I'm going to ask you probably quite a challenging question there will be. If there's someone, if there's a young leader, let's say, or if someone wanted to get into leadership right now, but you know a bit apprehensive to do so, what advice would you give them? And maybe someone's lost their way a little bit? Do you know what I mean? What advice would you give them, knowing what you know now?

Speaker 1:

You've got to embrace change and do the things that scare you. If it's scary, you are taking the right step. I promise you that everyone's human. So if you're stepping up into a manager role and you're apprehensive about giving a speech, you're apprehensive about applying for the job role, everyone's human. Everyone's been through the process that you're going through and I think that makes it a lot easier to realize that if they've done it, they make mistakes. No one's perfect. Then, if you make those mistakes along the way, it's just learning. It's part of your learning and your development. Yeah, so I think you've just got to embrace change. I was at a company that didn't appreciate me, that told me that I'd never go any further. I was getting a good wage for the person that I was, and now, two and a half years down the line, I'm operations manager, and that's because I went to university and I put myself out there, I think yeah, I love that man.

Speaker 2:

Look this is. I've really, really enjoyed this and and you know it's been quite a it's been quite a proud moment, I'll be honest with you, for me having someone like you on the podcast, and I mean that because you know I see it as a platform for, for various reasons, for for people, but I just think you know you are someone who will inspire people at whatever age they are. Do you know what I mean? And I mean that because you know we all lose focus purpose sometimes, but actually you know you've spoken so well with such passion and very, you know, with the level of intelligence that not many people have got, but ultimately there'll be people listening, going right, I'm going to give me daughter or me son this just to listen to it. Do you know what I mean? Because I think that's important, because ultimately because exactly what we said there's no awareness really behind manufacturing. There isn't, and I think it's all corporate nonsense really there's a lot of it online. Do you know what I mean there?

Speaker 1:

corporate nonsense, really there's a lot of it online. Do you know what I?

Speaker 2:

mean there isn't, and I think this is the type of stuff for me. This is why I did this podcast, because I want people and I want young people to be able to go so there could be a career for me there. And actually I don't have to, because sometimes you look at management directors, operations managers, and you think, well, it'll take me 34 years to to do that. This generation won't wait that long. Do you know what I mean? And your proof that you can just get in the right company at the right time, they'll give you the right opportunities and the right tools. It's also another lesson that companies need to look internally. You know it doesn't always have to be external Again, I'm putting myself out of a job here but they can look at your team. Do you need to bring someone on, or they can look at your team? Do you need to bring someone on or can you give someone certainly that opportunity because they're probably going to work harder because they care about you?

Speaker 1:

Oh, 100%. Yeah, I'll come in every day to get my head down and that's because I owe the company gratitude. I owe both the directors for trusting and believing in me and giving me this opportunity. I just want to say it's been surreal that you've even asked me to come on this and speak to you. Honestly, I can't get my head around it. I really appreciate it, Mark. You're doing great, great things for the younger generation. You really are.

Speaker 2:

No, thanks, Min, and you know. Thank you very much, it's been class.

Speaker 1:

Cheers, mark, I appreciate it.

Speaker 2:

Cheers pal, I'll just tell you.