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Manufacturing Leaders
Currently the Number 1 Manufacturing Podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts!
Mark Bracknall, Founder of Theo James Recruitment is the host of Manufacturing Leaders.The UK is still a powerhouse in Manufacturing & Engineering. We speak to those who are helping to make those firms a success. By motivating, inspiring and managing teams.Are you new to management? Are you keen to hear from those who are dealing with the same day-to-day challenges you are facing?In this podcast we get inside the minds of the Managers in Manufacturing & Engineering, and understand how they get the best our of their teams and make Manufacturing & Engineering great.
Manufacturing Leaders
Empowering Change With Ethical Leadership
Join us on the Manufacturing Leaders Podcast as we sit down with Umayr Idrees, the visionary Global Head of Workload Optimisation at Hitachi Rail. Umayr's journey into leadership was sparked at a young age, and he shares how it shaped his understanding of ethical leadership beyond mere titles. We unravel the challenges and responsibilities that come hand-in-hand with leadership, especially in inspiring and empowering the new generation in the manufacturing industry. Umayr's insights into succession planning and KPIs for manufacturing optimisation are invaluable for anyone striving to make a lasting impact in their field.
Our conversation takes a deep dive into the heart of ethical leadership and social responsibility in today's digital age. As technology redefines how we connect and learn, Umayr discusses the essential shift towards sustainability in manufacturing, urging businesses to see it not just as a regulatory must but as an opportunity to align with the values of a modern workforce. We also address the pressing concerns about UK's manufacturing sector's global competitiveness, highlighting the need for proactive leadership to innovate and stay ahead.
In our closing segments, we explore the evolving nature of career paths and the importance of nurturing the next generation in engineering. Umayr's personal experiences shed light on the need for engagement and motivation to attract top talent, while we also address the significance of building relationships and communication skills in engineering. From understanding job tenure shifts to inspiring young engineers, this episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone passionate about leadership, manufacturing, and shaping the future of engineering.
*my ideas are my own and not representative of my organisation*
Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Manufactured Lease Podcast with me Mark Bracknell, marketing Director of Theo James Recruitment. Today we welcomed on Umair Idris, the Head of Workload Optimization at Itachi Rail. Umair was one of the most passionate and inspiring people I would say I've met and had on the podcast. This was an absolute pleasure. We talked in depth about some real deep issues, including ethical leadership and both the responsibility and actually opportunity that manufacturers have right now to prioritize but actually lean into it to make sure that they can appeal to the new generation. We talked about the new generation in this episode a lot and actually the new age leadership and what companies can do to try and make sure that they are looking after their succession planning and appeal to the younger generation. We talk about KPIs and we talk about what KPIs to look at in your factory to make sure you are as optimal as possible, and then we just talk in general about manufacturing collaboration, what needs to happen to be a real powerhouse in manufacturing and stopping burying our heads in the sand that the UK is in a great place right now. We talk about the real issues and what we indeed need to do to improve it. So this is a really, really interesting and quite deep episode and, as I say, umair is unbelievably inspiring and particularly inspiring to young people looking to get into the industry. It's an episode again I would probably look to show perhaps your children, who are maybe a bit lost in their way but potentially interested in this industry.
Speaker 1:So thank you, umair, for this episode. It felt very, very powerful. Please sit back, watch and listen and enjoy Once again. Please, please, please, just click that like and subscribe button now, because that would really help continue to grow the show. Thank you very much. Hope you enjoy the episode. Fantastic. So a warm welcome today to Umair Idris, the Global Head of Workload Optimization at Tachy Rail. I had to write that down and read it. It's the most complicated title I've had on here. So welcome, umair. How are we doing you?
Speaker 2:okay, thank you. Thank you for inviting me on. I'm good, thank you. How are you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, really good, really good. So I can't wait to dig into this. We've got some real meaty stuff to get into.
Speaker 2:So I uh fascinated by all this. But first question is the same question. I ask everyone what does it mean to you to be a leader? So for me, I think a leader is one that um sets the fire inside you. I think the leader is one who inspires, empowers. You don't need a title to be a leader. There's people that are very senior that might not be leaders, and vice versa. You don't necessarily a title to be a leader. There's people that are very senior that might not be leaders, and vice versa. You don't necessarily. If you think about sports, you have multiple leaders on the football pitch. So that's one thing. You definitely don't need to be a title to be a leader. I think leaders always put themselves well, lead the way, but then they put themselves last. If you think the ship's sinking, they'll always make sure their people, the people under their responsibility, are first, and then they put themselves last. Or if you're trying to influence and create an impact, you're the first person making the step, and I think a leader is the original influencer.
Speaker 2:You know, everyone wants to be an influencer these days and leadership for millennia and if you think about religious figures or political figures or other leaders were the original influences that could influence the masses or individuals or have an impact on people's lives. And there's a quote like "'A leader is one who knows the way, "'goes the way and shows the way'". So you've got to have the knowledge as a leader in terms of knowing the way, which way to go, and they go the way in terms of the actions. So your actions have to follow your words, your words, your attitude, your behavior. Actions all have to be aligned showing the way, which is a large part of leadership. You know, creating that path for other people, mentoring, developing and showing people. This is the way and leading people down that way. And I think that is quite succinct succinct in terms of encompassing what leadership is and all about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great answer and really well sort of explained, and I think I guess everything you're talking about there is that responsibility piece. Have you ever felt that pressure to be all those things you just said, because it's a lot, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is a lot, I think. Well, I've always felt myself in terms of my own background. If I go back to the story, I lost my dad when I was 15 and I had to become the head of the house, being the eldest, and I feel like that was my first step into leadership having to be the man of the house, the man of the family and I think of the house, the money, family and I think a lot of it's come natural in terms of um throughout my life, my personal life and my career about how to be, you know, just being a leader and learning. It doesn't mean you know everything you know. I mentioned to you when we discussed previously about um listen to podcasts, I read books on it.
Speaker 2:I'm always trying to try and learn and understand, even managers and leaders that I've had, what's good, that's, that's worked and what do I want to take on board. Just because you're a leader doesn't mean you have all the answers, but you've got to be willing to learn, willing to listen, and it is a lot. I absolutely agree. It is a lot, but you've got to have humility, you've got to be down to earth and you've got to be willing to listen. What leadership is. It's not about you, it's about everyone else, it's about everyone, including yourself, but you need to be thinking about others and I think if you lead with that and there's a lot written about servant leadership these days I think you can't go wrong, despite there being a lot to it. If you always put other people first, you really can't go wrong.
Speaker 1:Have you seen that change over time, would you say, because I think leadership now is very different than it used to be. Have you seen that gradual change in terms of putting yourself first, would you say, over others?
Speaker 2:I think so. Yeah, I think the other thing that I've learned when you're early on in your career I mean, you don't know everything. Even now, I'm still learning but I think one thing that I would add is situational leadership. So you can't have one tool. It's like having a toolbox and you're constantly using the hammer for everything, and that's the wrong approach.
Speaker 2:You know you've got people that are, you know, on board with your ideas. People that are not on board with your ideas, people who need extra support, people who learn differently, and you, you've got to adapt your leadership style to suit each individual scenario, each individual case, and we're all human. We've all got different behaviors, we've all got emotions. It's different each day. But, as your, as a leader, I think that's one thing that has changed over years, from you know, back in the 90s to now. There's a lot more emotional intelligence, a lot more thinking about mental health, um, a lot more trying to understand, right, what is? How can I get the best capability out of somebody? But not not through. You know, it's got to come from them. You've got to create the conditions as a leader to for them to, within themselves, be motivated and have that drive, uh, to do something, and I think that's a different style to what it what potentially used to be uh, even many you know years ago, decades.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I completely agree and I've seen that myself. I'm an impossible questionist, but why do you think it's changed? Because I think you're right emotional intelligence, all these things now which are part of modern leadership why do you think it has changed from what it used to be? I think partly. It's a generational gap or difference to be.
Speaker 2:I think partly it's a generational gap or difference. Like myself, I'm a millennial and I think differently to you know, older generations. I think differently to the following generations, generation Z and Alpha, and, I think part of it, even the younger generation now. One example is climate change. You know that's a forefront. There's a lot of people that ask young people culture, what's the culture of the business? What are you like with social responsibility, with climate change? And those questions might have been asked before, but I don't think there was prominence as they are now.
Speaker 2:People are a lot more aware. You know, our kids are young and they're in school and they're talking about recycling and that's going to be important. You know, sustainability and these are the kinds of things that people were less maybe aware about, and I think the advent of the internet has definitely helped in terms of information dissemination, the availability of information or AI. Now we've got a supercomputer, you can ask a question in an instant. I think we're more informed with this being in the information age and that's why it's driving people to ask those questions and therefore leadership needs to rise up to the challenge about how do we manage people's requirements customers requirements, um, your employees requirements as well as meeting the business needs as well yeah, I, I, so I think we've had to adapt.
Speaker 1:I think it's a really good point about the um, the technology and information at our fingertips, because, you know, when I you know, you know, but when I was growing up there was the internet. I was sort of you know, I'm 39, so I was the dial-up internet when I was little. But you know, I missed that social media age. I missed that sort of everything at your fingertips, you know. I mean now, like you say, you can learn anything. You know, I mean you can, you can literally type something in youtube and become an expert to some extent yourself, which is which is massive, isn't it now? That, I think's probably, like you say, been a big part of changing people's leadership techniques.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think what you said about being an expert. I agree with that, because when they say you want to be a master of something, I think it's 10,000 hours.
Speaker 2:It's a rough estimate of what you need to spend to master something and because everything's available at our fingertips. You don't have to go get a trip to the library, you don't have to find a book, you don't have to return it and read it within four weeks, and all that kind of good stuff, it's literally in our pockets. You could learn something right now, today, tomorrow, and you could be an expert in a very short space of time, which wasn't really possible before.
Speaker 1:So I think that's that's definitely contributing. Yeah, you mentioned that sustainability piece and and I guess that sort of links in with that leadership piece and and I've seen the shift in manufacturing the last, last probably five years, I would say I've seen maybe even two years. I've seen a shift where companies have gone from this is something we're gonna have to do because we're told to, versus a they're now seeing it is a real positive. It's all challenging but real positive, where actually they can link the new generation of workforce into it. And actually manufacturing needs to play its part, doesn't it into? Into that whole piece? And I think leadership whole piece, what? What? Your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:no, absolutely I think you're right.
Speaker 2:I think part of it was demand driven in terms of customers and I'm asking for it, employees and asking for it, and that's forced the hand, but I think this is what we might go on to a little bit later. The ethical leadership. You know what's the right thing to do, what's your values and principles, regardless if it's hard or not, are you making the right decisions? That benefits not just yourself but but the wider society, in terms of locality, nationally or even globally. And I think that's got to be considered within manufacturing. We're going to advance manufacturing up advance manufacturing techniques. We've got robotics, we've got complex supply chains, we've got globalization.
Speaker 2:Things are changing in a way that they didn't used to.
Speaker 2:We're competing with the likes of previously eastern europe from a manufacturing point of view, and the far east, you know, in terms of the uk and the northeast, and we've got to be um considering right where's the industry going, what is the demand of customers? Um, as well as regulations, as well as what governments are requesting, as well as what the un is requesting, um, I think that's all got to play a part in terms of what's the right thing to do from a manufacturing point of view, in terms of sustainability, in terms of materials, in terms of efficiencies, not wasting talent, resources, materials, the whole package. Manufacturing has got a big part to play in that. Versus a lot of other sectors, if you talk about other professions manufacturing has a huge impact on the economy as well as the workforce, the circular economy. It has an impact on society from local to global level. So I think we can certainly within a locality in the northeast, we can make a massive difference and it just needs our leadership, ethical leadership, to do it. I think that's the solution.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really agree, and it's going to take some time, isn't it? It's interesting because I used to a lot of the stuff I used to put out online and no, I don't believe it, but I've always said UK powerhouse manufacturing, you know, it's always been good. But the more people I speak to, the more concerned I am about where the uk is right now in comparison to other countries, because other mindsets change. But I guess it has a little bit where I think, the more we bury our head in the sands, that it's this fantastic beast. It could be and it should be, and hopefully it will be, but right now it's got big challenges and if it doesn't step up and do something about it, we'll get left behind all the countries. You just you've just mentioned what, what, your, what's your opinion on that, because mine started to change a bit absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think. With the industry 4.0 coming in, I think there's a lot of changes in terms of dynamics, in terms of cost. You know, is it efficient for for businesses to operate? An example the steel that's absolutely decimated now and many other industries that have fallen down. You know, uk was one of the first industrialized nations and look at us compared to the likes of Germany and Japan and other industrialized nations in terms of what their exports are, what their productivity levels are, and that's not because of the workforce.
Speaker 2:I think we need to utilize technology. I think it'd become more efficient. I think we need to utilise technology. I think it'd become more efficient. I think we need to use lean manufacturing and there's so many things that people are doing in terms of regulations are different. You know, we've come out of the EU in terms of Brexit. That's adding a lot more red tape and regulations. There's things that we aren't doing that other countries are doing and, bear in mind, we're competing on a global field. So, yeah, I think it's really important. I think we've got to step up and we've got to compete if we want the Northeast, the UK, to prosper. And when I touch on ethical leadership, I think globally we can solve a lot of challenges, including climate change, by contributing in the right way.
Speaker 1:In your opinion, how do companies start to improve that ethical leadership piece? Because some companies are at the forefront, some companies are still archaic and this is the way they've all done it, so they won't change. If you were to step into a new role in a company that just didn't really know that much about it and just hadn't changed in 20 years, what were the first things you would start to influence and try and change?
Speaker 2:Good question. I think the first thing is you. You got to know what your values are. I think, what's your principles? You know, and everyone's programmed in a certain way because of our environment and because, partly, our genetics as well. But what? What do we program to believe? You know, it might be in religious um beliefs, it might be cultural beliefs, it might be societal norms, and that's got to be the starting point. And you've got to know, morally and ethically, what's going on and stand by that. And that's what integrity is.
Speaker 2:I think integrity is a big part of ethicalism. You know, leading with honesty, with transparency, with integrity. And if you're doing that and we're talking about leadership then others will follow suit. You know, if you're making the tough decisions, even if it has a detrimental impact on you, and you're doing it with integrity, people are seeing that and that's what leadership is. So you know, if you want to make an impact in that regard in a business, you've got to start with yourself.
Speaker 2:You know, look inward first. Be the change you want to see in the world. You know, and it starts people like the world doesn't change by opinions, they're changed by your actions, and I think that's got to be the starting point in any business. Um, look inward and then look at right. Where is the delta? What is the delta between where you want to be and where you are now? And what are the goals? You know a plan, a goal without a plan is just a wish. So what is the plan to get us there? And yeah, I think that's the way to go about it and making people aware.
Speaker 2:I think you know. Thank you for the opportunity for bringing me on and talking about these things, but this is where it starts, isn't it? People might have a thought, people might discuss things, ideas, and it might trigger a thought that actually, for example, climate change or whatever else it might be, uh, equal pay gender equality, whatever it might be, is really important, and that can only happen through discussion and dialogue so I think you've got to lead the charge um and and bring people on that journey, and that's what leadership's all about who?
Speaker 1:whose responsibility is it? Do you think, you know? If you look at the, you know the um, the global issues and and the, you know the 17 un, sustainable practice and all this type of something to change. Whose responsibility is it? Do you think it's the government's responsibility to feed information into companies? Do you think it's individuals that need to get together? Is it the companies? Because it just seems very disjointed to me all this stuff. Who needs to leave the charge, do you think, for this?
Speaker 2:I think it's a bit of both, but I think this is individuals. I really do, because the government doesn't always talk for the people. I mean, we know that very well, and that's the same with a lot of countries. You know they've got their own vested interests, you've got lobbying groups that influence them and you know who's going to know what's best but you, in terms of what's right for your community, and I think it's got to start with us and we're the ones that need to pass that message on to others. And when you've got a critical mass of people, you can make anything happen. You can make changes happen.
Speaker 2:I think the government does have a part to play and an important part. And if they're not playing that part, an example is social media companies. You know where they're not regulating them. They think social media companies. You know where they're not regulating them. They think social media can regulate itself and we see the problems societally that have been caused by that. Or an example the water industry. When you have regulators and they might not have the teeth um to stop you know waste being dumped into lakes and rivers um. So government has a part to play, but I think each of us um have a to play, a massive part to play, and that's what we always need to consider and it's up to us to step up. You know the UN sustainability goals that you touched on, the 17 sustainability goals about. You know defeating poverty, gender equality, about sustainable farming and fishing and looking after the planet all those things. Who's going to fix that we?
Speaker 1:don't have an Avengers team.
Speaker 2:You know if fishing and looking after the planet, all those things, who's going? To fix that we don't have an Avengers team. If you had the Avengers, you'd give them a list. Here's the 17 things you need to tackle and we don't. So it's up to us, each of us, to do that, to work together to tackle the big problems as well as the small ones.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned that work together piece and I think that brings us on to that collaboration. How well do you think and let's use a North East manufacturing as an example how well do you think North East manufacturing industry collaborates and how could we do it better do you think? Because I think what we're talking about here, that needs to happen. Otherwise they're just various companies doing their version of what they think's right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, definitely in terms of you're right, there'll be silos otherwise. And I think there's great collaboration already in the Northeast. You know my current business that we're at. We're working with Hyperdrive in terms of battery development and various other things within the supply chain. You know, just our company alone is supporting 130 plus suppliers within the Northeast in terms of the supply chain. That has a massive impact on the economy as well, on jobs, in terms of quality of life, and so that collaboration piece is really important.
Speaker 2:If someone, you know one of those businesses, or several of those businesses collapse or are unsuccessful, that has a knock-on impact. So we need to help each other. And a good experience I had a couple of months ago when I was there. You know, I heard from them that once their workforce don't have any work, they ask around the estate, around the area do you need any welders, do you have any painters or whatever it might be? Do you have any design engineers that we need for this short project? And that's across companies. You know, that's incredible and things like that, those great ideas.
Speaker 2:I think we can take a leaf from that. I think there's great collaboration happening already, but that's not to say we should stop. You know, let's keep working and improving, because it's a competitive landscape and, um, yeah, it's. It's kind of doggy dog in terms of businesses and if the business isn't viable and collapses, it has a massive impact, as you know, in terms of deprived areas, in terms of workforce and in terms of circular economy. So manufacturing has a big part to play and if we think about collaborating and working together, helping each other, even across businesses, across industries, or even the same industry working with competitors, I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and there's so many. Isn't there's so many? Because I think if anyone's listening and their business isn't part of one of these networks, then there's so many about. You know the North East little engineering manufacturing network. Obviously, aclyff has got a huge networking piece there. You've got advanced manufacturing. You've got so many and it is great what they do, because exactly what they say, you know, yes, there's, we're in, they're in competition.
Speaker 1:There might be competition for the work, there might be competition for people, but the more we work together, the better the industry, the region, can be, because otherwise and I, you know, I hate it when I see companies working, you know, for China and Dubai, you know for for china and dubai or the. You know, just just on price, you know it's there needs to be some for me, some incentives to try to make sure we bring it locally and collaborate. It's just the challenge, isn't it now, where, financially, it's a challenge for a lot of companies and that price importance could potentially keep rising, particularly obviously. You know this. This mailman will go out before the. By the time this comes out, the budget will have come out and it'll be interesting to see what's come. That and again, there could be some challenges off the back of that. That could be another reason why companies could have to make decisions based on price. It's, uh, a concern, isn't it? That type of stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And although we might not be able to compete with things like material costs, there's other efficiencies, massive efficiencies. How well are we balancing supply and demand, which is what I'm doing currently? And balancing the supply and demand is the mechanism for making profit. If you've got too much supply and not enough demand, then it's inefficient. You're paying for inventory, you've got a workforce that might be spending hours not on value added time and that's the cost of the business. Or equally, if the demand if it's the other way around you're not able to satisfy customer demand, you might not be able to meet all the customer obligations and then you start losing work. So it's the balancing of the supply and demand which is really crucial within a business, and especially projects-based business, where it's you know feast and farming, or even you know business operations. It still has a part to play in terms of we can make efficiencies despite materials being a challenge, or import costs and regulation.
Speaker 2:What have we maximized? What we could potentially do and I think there's a lot of scope, for example, artificial intelligence coming in. There's huge productivity gains we can get from that. Or even, in my previous experience, just sitting how often does anyone sit and just look at the process and say hang on a second. Are we actually following what's written on the paper? Often the times, in my own experience, is no. So let's look at the current state and then let's feature value stream map in terms of where do we want to get to and put that in place? And there's so many places we can find efficiencies, and lean is a good place to start in terms of the eight wastes within lean manufacturing. So what can we do? What can we do? There's things out of our control, but there's things within our sphere of influence that we can control apologies for interrupting this podcast with a very quick 30 second description of my business.
Speaker 1:Theo james are an engineering and manufacturing recruitment search firm based in durham. We specialize in contracts and permanent opportunities, from blue collar semi-skilled roles right the way up to c-suite level exec positions. If you're looking for any new, additional staff or new opportunity for yourself in the industry, please contact me or the team. There'll be a specialist in your area waiting to help. I'm incredibly proud of this business and what we've built since our inception in 2015, and I would love to extend that service out to you. So thank you very much. Hope you enjoy the episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because all these things are opportunities, aren't they? Because you know we are so fantastic at what we do. It's not as though we're miles behind. We can absolutely get there, and I completely agree that innovation and that sort of what you're talking about there in terms of just making sure that companies understand their process and how they can improve on it. I know that's something you're obviously very passionate about and obviously with your job title, the the head of workload optimization is. It is a big I imagine it a big piece of that. Um, how can companies who don't necessarily optimize their workforce, workload. Now start to look at what are the key things you would look at. I guess the KPIs you might look at to make sure that everything is running as smoothly as it possibly can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think well, across industries and across different sectors, what's common? You're selling a product, You're selling a product or service, what's your unit of measure across those products? Is it hours or is it units, how many? And what's the time period. So you know, if we're doing in my previous business png, we were doing you know hundreds, thousands of fragrances a day. What's the? You know how many are you producing in a week. If you're doing bespoke manufacturing, you know, um, low speed, high complexity, how many you're producing in a month. So what's the, what's the time period? You're looking at in terms of units per month. So once you've got your demand, what you can start forecasting your demand. But then also you've got to look at the supply side of the equipment. You know what's our capacity internally and where are the bottlenecks in order to supply that. So you got your, your value stream, your value chain. You've got to go through x machines, you've got to weld, you've got to paint, you've got to then assemble and test, etc. Right, how many units can you produce within a given time frame, within the month, within a week? Right now, with the workforce you've got and I think that's the starting point overlay the two. What's the delta? What can you do different? What's the controls that you can put in place? Can you double your shifts? Can you buy another machine because that one's a bottleneck? Can you make that more efficient in terms of changeovers?
Speaker 2:What are you doing in terms of the capacity side, but also on the demand side? You know, are you overall in the capacity, right? Where do you want your marketing sales team to drive? You've got a gap in workload in years time, six months time, right. Which areas do you want to do, want to work down? You know what are the priority customers now that might give us repeat work in six months time, in two years time. In terms of that bigger strategy, what are the products that we want to sell in the market in two years? What's the r and d strategy? You know, how many millions do we want to spend now, today for X product in three years? For which customers and I think that's got to be the main KPIs in terms of right.
Speaker 2:What's your supply side of the equation? What's the demand side? Put it together. What's the delta? Because that's going to cost you money, it's going to cost you inefficiency, it's going to cost you customer dissatisfaction, it's going to mean you've got liquidated damages on your contracts. That's painful, so that's where it's going to mean you've got liquidated damages on your contracts. That's painful. So that's where it's got to start. It's got to start with balancing the equation, and I think this is where ethical leadership comes in.
Speaker 2:It's not just about profitability. This is my own view. I think it's got to be people, planet peace before profitability. This is my own personal view, and I think that's where ethical leadership do you create profit at. You know, know, no holes barred and examples to give you know shark, loan shark companies are they? Do they have ethical practices to companies that are working fast fashion and are exploiting workforces across the world? Or weapons manufacturers, you know, you know governments are now dropping bombs on on refugee camps. Are those ethical and are we supporting that? Are we supporting that or are we against that? We can, uh, individuals, as individuals and individually, make those conscious decisions, and so I think those things come first, before profitability.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, profitability is absolutely key for any viable business and and for me that that links in as well with you know we talk about younger generation. They want to be part of something good, something green, something that's adding value. They want to, they want to have a real purpose. Now I don't think people necessarily that was at the forefront. So I think the opportunity here as well is is uh, if, if that is the business you're in, to sell that because it's a big part of you know you talk about retention, recruitment and everyone's talking about this, but it's a massive issue. But you know people pulling these levers you know it say get that in place first and make sure that you're sustainable, as you possibly can do your esg and all that, make sure you've got your teams and do it internally. Then you sell it as a business because people want to be part of something now, don't they? It's, that's your low yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:I think what I've heard from from the past in terms of the older generations you'd have a job for life or you'd stay for an x amount of time, and that's. You're probably seeing it yourself in recruitment that's quite probably uncommon now. Yeah, you know people are moving within every few years. Yeah, listen, there's so many things out there. So how do you retain talent? What's your value proposition, not just for customers, but employees as well, and what are you offering in terms of diversity, equity, inclusion? What you're offering in terms of more? Just the salary? You've probably seen yourself.
Speaker 2:It's not. That's not the factor why people are job changing jobs now, and you know that's one of a number of factors, and I think we've got to get a full package right, because what's the culture, what's the vision, what's the? Uh? Do people feel empowered? Um, does it align with their own personal values and goals? I think these are. These are all very important steps in terms of understanding the current workforce, the future generations that come, coming, or even the older generations, and what's the value proposition that you can offer as a business in order to retain that talent yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:Uh, because I think actually funnily, now that you know that job for life, things almost become it's almost a negative connotation. Now, if you see someone's cv they've been somewhere for 30 years because it used to be brilliant, this is a, this is a sure. See someone's CV they've been somewhere for 30 years because it used to be brilliant, this is a sure bet. If they've been somewhere for 10, 15, 20 years, they'll do the same. For me Now that's almost like, oh, they've not risked going somewhere else. It's suddenly become a negative and it is.
Speaker 1:And I think people move on after. If you get five years out of someone, that's probably now the the new sort of 25 years to some extent, so that you've got to lean into that. For me, and and actually it's not the end of the world if you get new people every five years because you get new ideas, you get, you get new, you know, change the business. So I think if you can set your business up to make sure that a a churn which is under a year is negative, that's just you're retraining. But I think if you're looking for that three to five year mark and you can train someone, they can leave your business in a better place and they'll leave you in a better place than they were in. It's a perfect match for both, but it's it's. I think a lot of businesses are quite behind that, but it's a mindset for me. They need to shift into yeah, definitely, I think, attrition.
Speaker 2:You need attrition in terms of you know you can't think of new ideas, new workforce coming in, new way of doing things, otherwise, if you're stagnant and stationary, everyone else is moving on. If you're standing still, you're going backwards, essentially, yeah so you've got to be you know aware of a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, it's, manufacturing is a can be a funny sector for that I'll tell you know we're stereotyping, but food manufacturing traditionally was we can only ever take people food. They must have food experience. You must have food experience and then you get the same people doing the same job and the same ideas, and and you know then that industry suddenly becomes so far behind the industry, like automotive, for example. You know and and and. Then then it's probably going to be renewables and all you know it's it's you need to, like you say, bring new ideas to, to change things. It's uh, it's an interesting one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess one of one of the the biggest issues, well, in manufacturing now is that succession planning piece. Um, and actually I think something that we've seen is that because of the, the pace scale and the supply and demand piece, you've got engineers now earning a heck of a lot of money and in many instances more than managers, and now managers are actually in some situations pay less than the people they're managing, probably for a more stressful job which is now becoming means it's harder to find sort of senior people. How do we look to bring on the new age of the new generation of leaders, in your opinion, you think?
Speaker 2:I think it's it's got to go back to. What is it that you're offering in terms of things like career as well. You know, why would somebody leave your business if you're offering them a genuine path, a career path and you know, we've all seen it in terms of the promises that X, y and Z is going to happen. But what is it that people are seeing? You know, in the workplace, if you've promised X, y and Z that something's going to happen in five years, they're looking around to see other colleagues. I've been promised X, y and Z and they're seeing them move on. If they're seeing them move on, then you know why would anyone leave if you created a clear career path or even moving across departments and gaining experience. It doesn't necessarily have to be upwards, but how are you creating that change? You know, and keeping people engaged. It's a lot of it's about engagement and motivation. How do you do that? And I think that's really important in terms of the new age, as you're saying, in terms of um, what is it that you're offering in terms of that total package and not just salary? Um, it's way more than that. I think it's way more than that these days, and that's how you're going to attract the best talent and keep the best talent as well, because another competitor is going to be offering those things and that's where you're going to be losing the talent, and that's why the market rate's going up.
Speaker 2:You know you're saying the engineering rate has gone up. That's why the market's going up, because the demand is there. It's supply and demand again. Yeah, and you know we don't have enough engineers coming through. It was like that when I was studying, I knew that many of the engineers would be retiring. You know in, you know in the 2020s, 2030s, there's going to be a shortage, and that's what's coming to fruition, and I think that's got to start. That's partly again government and it's partly us. What can we do to inspire the next generation of people into engineering so we don't have the skills shortage that we need, that we desperately need within manufacturing to be successful?
Speaker 1:Yeah, why do you? Why do you think you do what you do? You know and you're someone who is extremely experienced, for you know the degree you've had already. It's superb and in the status you've got, charted status now, in terms of what? Why was that important for you? Pushing to that level, would you say, in a short space of time?
Speaker 2:I think so, going back, um, as a kid, I was playing with, you know, lego. I was building things. I had a robotics invention system. I had my dad got me a pc when I was playing with Lego, I was building things. I had a robotics invention system. I had. My dad got me a PC when I was young and I was using MS-DOS, windows 3.1. And I was just into gadgets, technology, space, all of that stuff and engineering. I wanted to be an inventor.
Speaker 2:When I was young and I still remember the day I was, my dad used to take me regularly on the weekend to the library and he gave me the book of careers a to z and he said and I was looking through that and I found engineering and that's what an engineer is. You know, an inventor is an engineer. And he had all the different types engineering, technician, incorporated engineer, child engineer. And I remember in the books that that's the goals. And I thought that was the day and I thought you know what I'm going to be, that's what my goal is. I'm going to be a child engineer and that's all I've done through my life in terms of my gcses, my a levels, my year in industries, that I've done my degree, doing a master's, you have to do a further study, period of further study to become child, you have to hit 20 benchmarks in terms of experience. You, you know, financial management, people management, problem solving, bringing new initiatives, various things. In order to get that and I thought that's the bar for me.
Speaker 2:And sadly, my dad passed away, as I mentioned, when I was 15. And that's been always my goal. He set me off on that path and that's been, you know, relentless. It's been blood, sweat and tears together and for me it's been blood, sweat and tears together and, and for me it's, it's yeah, it's been a hell of a ride.
Speaker 2:That's, for me, is my everest in terms of what I've been through um from being young. Um, and it's been a lot of blood, sweat and tears together and I think it's really important it recognizes, it gives recognition for your knowledge, skills and experience that's been honed over years. Um, and I think that's yeah, I think for anyone who's young, who's inspiring, to be an engineer, I think that's a great target to have um in terms of corporate engineer, engineering technician or child um, but even like engineering career, it's it's, you know, it's very rewarding and um with status, without status, child status. It's a very rewarding thing and so, yeah, for me it was, it was very important and, yeah, based my life around that, that achievement and you're a real inspiration and I think the world needs to see more people like you and actually see more people like you.
Speaker 1:and what I mean by that is, I think there's a lot of, there'll be a lot of 12, 13 year old umas and you know, in the classrooms now perhaps haven't got the same inspiration, the same leadership you had with your dad, and that's a real sad shame, I think. Do you know what I mean? Because there's, I think some people are just born to have that that inventor-esque, creative mind. You know my little lad's five now and he wants to see how things work and when something breaks I can see him and understand why it's broken, and I'm not like that at all. I can't put a picture up. So it's interesting that you know. It's just I don't know where he gets it from, but I think some people are born with that sort of mindset and I just think this is where, again, that people can do more. Do you know what I mean? Then we're on.
Speaker 1:There's some companies doing some fantastic things and Attaché, without doubt, one of them in terms of that, in terms of that piece going out to schools, and you know I work closely with the UTC Newton Aycliffe, the college there and what they do is fantastic.
Speaker 1:Obviously there's the Attaché link there, but if, if anyone doesn't know, that's a school, newton Aycliffe which is a school where it's a proper off-stair GCSE school for specialist engineering subjects and it is incredible I don't know if you ever walk around, but it's unbelievable like the kit they've got and the opportunities they have. But you know still the links for them when they finish to get into work. That's still a bit weak. That still needs to be stronger. There still needs to be more companies in the area to collaborate and give those people the opportunities, because there's still going to be a massive gap between them leaving that and them being capable of being able to work in those sort of environments. But there needs to be more of this and there needs to be that collaboration piece, because there's some amazing stuff out there, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely, and it actually was one of the founders of that university technical college and I did more interviews with them. The biggest thing is they've got passionate people, passionate students and I think, when you're young, anyone who's?
Speaker 2:listening to this is young. What have you got to offer in terms of skills, knowledge etc. And same for myself? I didn't have a lot. But one thing you can bring is passion. You know the passion will drive you and the passion that you've got. People can see that. I did my contribution with UTC and I could see the passion was losing and you think why wouldn't you give this kid a chance, why wouldn't you and see what they can do? That's what they're aspiring for, that's what they're dreaming of, that's what they've got a passion in.
Speaker 2:You don't necessarily need to be good. I feel like you can. If you want to do anything, you just put your mind to it. You can do anything. It doesn't matter if you're there's a bit of talent. You know if you're good at tinkering or whatnot, or you go to football and whatnot, but you can. You know some things you might not be able to to learn as well. You know like like a footballer, but there's a lot of things you can. You can absolutely. If you spend the time and the effort and you're dedicated and committed and relentless, you can achieve anything genuinely. You can achieve anything, um, and people, young people, need to think about that.
Speaker 2:If they just they need to decide now, today, not tomorrow, next year. Now, what's my goal, what's my vision? You can do anything you want, you just decide. And if you've got passion inside you, that'll get you places. And when things are hard and the days are tough and they will be it's the passion that gets you through. And that's, I think, what UTC and other colleges and other institutions you know I went to Northern University, newcastle Wolding Durham University these are all on our doorstep in the Northeast. These are world-class establishments and let's utilize them. I'm a big proponent of education and I know there's other paths. There's apprenticeships, you can do technical routes as well. But for me and that's the way I would push my kids in the same way that I was pushed I think education is your passport to the future and I absolutely believe that. So any young people listening in, that's where you've got to start Start with your passion and just be willing to learn. It doesn't matter if it's formal education or otherwise. You can get that. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:You word that so well and for me, this is why I love getting people like yourself on Passionate. You know, passionate, driven people who've walked the walk and and will inspire people. Do you know what I mean? That's ultimately will, because there's a. There's a lot of people out there with skill, vision, intelligence, but maybe just lack that that little bit, and that can just be drawn out by people like you and hearing it. Because there's a. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of, you know, lack of self-belief in some situations. You know, someone perhaps had a tough time at school or whatever, and you know, this type of stuff, for me, can inspire people to go. Yeah, because whatever you want to do, as I can say, you just have to work hard at work hard at that thing Absolutely, and you know, even if you don't, you're going to learn along that way is going to get you somewhere.
Speaker 2:Essentially, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think the two, two things in terms of my own personal formula was work hard and pray hard, and that's that's all you need, um, and you can do anything. You can absolutely do anything. Um, yeah, I think it starts. You've got to start young. You've got to just first understand what's your vision and what you want to do.
Speaker 2:And when I was young, I remember I, you know, I've always wanted to do engineering in terms of, and I couldn't even get a work experience. You know, um, I don't know if, you know, things have changed now. I'm guessing they've improved. You've got LinkedIn, you've got networking. I couldn't get any work experience whatsoever. And you know what? I went to a dentist but uh, I did, uh, shadowing at a dentist surgery when I was 17 and that actually uh set me back because I, when my first job was in, uh, at my thumb remote, I went for the interview and I had the interview and it went very well. And one of the questions was well, I think you want to do dentistry, because why would you do shadowing? And I had to convince them that no, I just wanted any experience I could get yeah yeah, and there's so many opportunities there now.
Speaker 2:You know this is a long time ago, but now there's so many opportunities and I think one thing I would say to anyone listening is it's just as important what you know, but who you know as well, and you've got to work a relationship piece in terms of relationship, currency, in terms of networking, and there's way more opportunities now in terms of opening doors than than what I had and I wanted you know myself. Personally, I want to open those doors and help people and if there's anyone listening, get get in touch. You know I'm, I I'm mentoring in a couple of different areas and you know, within our business.
Speaker 2:I joined Marigold Leaders, which is a charity. I've joined within our ERG group. I'm a mentor at the Controls Hub. I'm a mentor, so I want to help young people that are coming through or older people you know that want to learn and help people, because that's opportunities I didn't have and there's so many opportunities out there.
Speaker 1:um, if you just connect connect with the right people and doors can open and and the world needs more people like you.
Speaker 1:He does, and and one thing you mentioned there as well is that when you're young, that just networking and relationship building.
Speaker 1:One thing, another thing I realized about the utc is every time I've been, that I've been, I've had three tours I've been sort of walked around by different students and they say they get different students every time to walk around because it builds a confidence and they were so confident and intelligent. But that is very daunting. If I think of myself at like 15 having to to walk two strangers around a school, it'd be really daunting. But it's just a challenge, isn't it? It's like anything I think they should do public speaking in schools when they're really young and that entrepreneurial piece, because these are the things that actually you know you can walk through the door, but if you've got no confidence to sell yourself, then you know, unfortunately, realistically now you know if we talk manufacturing, you're not going to get the job, because they think this is going to be too much of a gap for me to get in, for me to be, and that be the skills that need to be taught for me absolutely right.
Speaker 2:I think communication is a big one. You know, in terms of selling yourself, in terms of articulating what your capabilities are. You know in terms of can you do the job? It goes as simple as that, isn't't it? You're employing someone to do X job. Are you able to do that? But even within my own career, how willing are you to go beyond that job? If something's not in your job description, are you willing to do it? People are constantly checking and monitoring your behavior or your attitude, and that's what's going to get you places. Firstly, can you do the job and can not? Firstly, can you do the job and can you articulate that? You can do x or y, whatever, whatever is necessary. So I think, absolutely, communication is a big one. Yeah, yeah, and that's what's going to help you networking and interviews in your career, presentations, influencing and leadership as well.
Speaker 1:It's all down to communication yeah, completely agree, and, and, uh, and just finally, in terms of there might be only so much you can say with it. It could be like it's actually a big business, a lot of obviously confidential stuff, but plans for the next 12 to 18 months I imagine a lot on your agenda to source.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think workload's a big one in terms of globally.
Speaker 2:We're trying to articulate right what are the projects we have now, what are the future opportunities coming in, what is the capacity? Where do we need to hire, where do we need to invest? All of those kind of things? Where are we meeting at program level, project level? Are we meeting the customer requirements in terms of time, cost, quality within the necessary scope? Are we meeting customer requirements, but also business requirements at a project level? And when you add that all together within a portfolio, what does that do? Is that aligned with the company strategy and where does the business want to be going forward?
Speaker 2:So yeah, really exciting time, really exciting space, and I think a lot of the things that the business are doing is helping massively. Firstly, customers. It's helping passengers. I ride on the trains, I'm sure a lot of people do. It helps the economy and in terms of the way they do it, in terms of sustainability, in terms of the things we talked about, I think the thing that they talk about is power and good and social enterprise, social innovation and doing it in the right way, in a way that helps society. So, yeah, I think, as a business, absolutely aligns with my own vision, my own personal vision and a lot of exciting things to come, especially from a technology perspective as well. You know smart ticketing, as we mentioned, artificial intelligence, bullet trains, maglev, all of that kind of good stuff. It's a really exciting space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice Peter. Look, I just want to thank you for this because I've thoroughly enjoyed it. You know, nice Peter, I just want to thank you for this because I've thoroughly enjoyed it. It's been a real insightful conversation. I've really enjoyed it, and I probably rambled on myself too much, to be honest with you, so apologies for that, but I've just enjoyed our chat.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I think you are a real inspiration, and I mean that. Do you know what I mean? In terms of, as I've mentioned a few times, there'll be people listening to this, you know, perhaps you know, of all ages, perhaps a little bit lost in the way, maybe in terms of their own career, and I think this will be a real inspiring one for them. But we've talked about some really important stuff and I appreciate that because you know these global issues, ethical leadership, sustainability, it's all stuff that is coming, thankfully, is now coming to the forefront. Yeah, and he's I. I think, as we've discussed, it's gone from something which is talked about as a challenge to an opportunity, and I think that's, you know, I think a lot of people listening here today will go actually, this is something we can utilize and we can sort of lean into. So I've thoroughly enjoyed it. It's been a real powerful one. So thank you, it's been great. Thanks so much for having me, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, thank you so much for listening to this episode of the manufacturing leads podcast. It absolutely means the world to me. Please let me know if you need any assistance.
Speaker 1:As a business, we look at providing partnerships with manufacturing engineering companies to really help their recruitment. Some attention on the recruitment piece anywhere from blue collar semi-skilled staff right the way up to c-suite level executive appointments, but also much more than that. We run events. So please let me know if you're interested, any of those. If you are interested, indeed, becoming a um, a podcast guest, be very, very keen to speak to you as well. More than happy to do so. But as a business, as say, we look at key partnerships that really help your recruitment, your retention, your marketing, your training. We really believe in the partnership piece and being an extension of your business. So we're very proud to work in this sector. I love manufacturing engineering and my staff are just as passionate about it as I am. So thank you once again for listening. Please get in touch to talk about anything we can do to help. Look forward to speaking to you very soon. Thank you.