Manufacturing Leaders

Lina Emilsson: Conquering EV Challenges and Driving a Sustainable Energy Future with Empowered Teams

• Mark Bracknall • Season 9 • Episode 6

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Unlock the secrets of leadership and sustainability in manufacturing with our special guest, Lina Emilsson, the Chief Operating Officer of Nidec Energy. Lina shares her invaluable insights into empowering teams and fostering environments where innovation thrives. With a critical eye on the electric vehicle industry's challenges, she emphasizes the urgent need for the UK to learn from Norway's successes to remain competitive. You'll gain a deeper understanding of her journey into engineering, spurred by a fascination with factory processes and a pivotal opportunity in the pharmaceutical sector, and how these experiences shape her current role.

As we explore the competitive landscape of electric vehicle and battery manufacturing, Lena and I tackle the pressing need for Europe to capitalize on its strengths in sustainability and advanced manufacturing processes. Despite the formidable challenge of competing against China's pricing and reliability, opportunities abound for those willing to enhance efficiency and collaboration within the value chain. We discuss the crucial role of government support and the need for proactive measures to accelerate smart manufacturing adoption, highlighting the potential setbacks if these challenges aren't addressed swiftly.

In our conversation, we also unravel the future of electric vehicles and energy storage, addressing misconceptions like range anxiety and the role of hydrogen vehicles. We spotlight the importance of infrastructure, battery energy storage, and grid stability to facilitate the integration of renewable energy. From insights on secondhand EVs to the potential of localizing battery manufacturing, Lena sheds light on the market dynamics and strategic foresight necessary to navigate this evolving landscape. Don't miss this episode brimming with valuable lessons on leadership, strategic foresight, and the future of sustainable manufacturing.

Please subscribe to the channel for more content! Theo James are a Manufacturing & Engineering Recruiter based in the North East, helping Manufacturing and Engineering firms grow across the UK. Please call us on 0191 5111 298

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Leaders Podcast with me Mark Bracknell, marketing Director of Theo James Recruitment. In today's episode we welcomed on Lena Mielsen, the Chief Operating Officer of Nidec Energy. We talked about all things. Sustainability and EV EV electric vehicle have been in the news right now for, in all honesty, all the wrong reasons due to various changes in government to-ing and fro-ing and the effect on the manufacturer and the knock-on effect unfortunately for the working people with the job reduction has been clear for all there to see. So I thought it was very important today to really tackle these problems and challenges head-on and we really got deep into it in terms of exactly what the challenges are, exactly what the biggest threat is and who. The biggest threat is. That, of course, being China. How we can compete with China if we can't compete on price.

Speaker 1:

We talked to Alina in depth about her time with British folks and the lessons from that, how the UK can learn from countries like Norway and their policy on EV, and, in her words, we have two years to get this right before the EV UK industry is in a really bad place. So a real open and honest podcast, one that I learned a lot and you're going to learn a lot as well. So please sit back and listen and enjoy this episode and take some actions off the back of it. Please, please, please as I always do ask just like or subscribe click that little button. It means the world to me and helps us grow the show. Thank you very much. Hope you enjoy the episode. Excellent, so a warm welcome today to Lena Milson, the Chief Operation Officer at Nidec Energy. Lina, how are you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah, I'm very well, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, really looking forward to it. So first question is the same question I ask everyone who comes on the show what does it mean to you to be a leader, would you say?

Speaker 2:

I think that's such an important and, I think, also underestimated point. Actually, for any company, you know how important it is to invest in your leadership across the whole organization, and for me, it's really about empowering people and bringing out the best in everybody in the organization. Right, everyone's there to contribute, and if you build a team who are so much better than you, you're going to succeed, right, either way. So it's all about bringing along the talent and exceptional people who will just excel in the roles, and your main responsibility as a leader is to enable them to do their best. Right, make sure the conditions are right, make sure they get the right training, make sure they get mentorship and support, make sure they are free to make decisions, that they are free to influence, that they are free to impact uh, also their, their own working environment and, and their uh, you know day-to-day activities. So so for me, it's it's all about building empowered people who are passionate about what they do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I really like that, and what I like about that in particular is I think there's a lot of pressure on leaders to feel like they need to be the best and they need to be the person with all the answers, and I love what you said there. You build a team of people.

Speaker 2:

And it's really the opposite, isn't?

Speaker 1:

it.

Speaker 2:

Because you're looking for your team to have the answers, looking for your team to have the answers.

Speaker 1:

You just really to guide them to find the right answers. Yeah, it's such a hard thing to go for that because, whether it's ego or whether it's pride, but yeah, when you first start you don't realize that idea. You feel you need to feed them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah and you, you're, uh, suffering so much as a new leader. You're suffering so much from from expectations, from from everyone around you, mostly your, your superiors, right, real or not. You still believe the expectation is for you to know everything and do everything and be the best, right. But that's not what it's all about. It's about succeeding as a team, and if you bring your team to success, that is actually your success.

Speaker 1:

When do you think you first realised that Was that? Did you always, or was that part of the journey that that sort of penny dropped?

Speaker 2:

I think it's been part of the journey actually. So you know, my first management job was in production, in pharmaceutical production, and obviously I came in as a young female engineer, and obviously I came in as a young female engineer. This was an old gang of old men and women who've been operators for a long time on the shop floor, right? So obviously I didn't know everything, right, so they knew so much more than me. So I think I figured that out quite quickly and I think it's about finding the individuals in your team who are the informal your team, who are the informal leaders, who are the experts and the ones who really contribute and who wants to make, make an impact. And once you know who those people are, you know you set them up for success.

Speaker 1:

Um, and that will that you know, that kind of cannot fail yeah, and we're going to dig really deep today into the ev and sustainability world. But I'd like initially to go back briefly, just so people understand a bit about your journey. I'm always fascinated why why people got into engineering manufacturing. Um, was that something you? You fell in or something you've always wanted to do then?

Speaker 2:

no, I think it was a little bit well actually, to be honest, a bit of both. You know, I was the kind of kid who was just glued to the tv when there was these kinds of shows inside the factory and and things like that. Right, it's just so fascinating, uh. But it was actually a random coincidence, um, in terms of, uh, the company I worked for in the pharma industry, that they were recruiting a lot just when I graduated, um, so it wasn't actually a conscious decision to go straight into manufacturing and it was specifically pharmaceutical.

Speaker 2:

That was the industry, yeah that was a farm at the time that was really growing around the Stockholm area where I was then great, excellent and obviously took you some time to get into the world of sustainability.

Speaker 1:

I mean obviously, you know, still a relatively new term for some people, when. When did you realize that was a passion, would you say, because it obviously is now yeah, it is.

Speaker 2:

It's very much so, and I think that's what's um. You know, I did. I did a long journey in different leadership roles through through the pharma industry and then just felt you know, it was when I was on maternity leave with my third child and I just, you know, I want to have a bigger impact and, and you know, environmental care, sustainability is so important to me. So how can I make a contribution here? How can I actually have a job and really really drive my passion and make an impact in that space? So so, yeah, that was 2017.

Speaker 1:

Well, do you mind me asking where, almost where the passion came from, because I guess there's still a, I think there's still a missing gap. Um, maybe it's an education piece, awareness piece for a lot of people who just don't know enough about it. I don't think it's a case of people don't care, I just don't think they know enough about it to care, if that makes sense. Was that? Did you just, in your time within manufacturing and pharmacy, you saw what was happening? Or was it external influences what led you to sort of find that passion?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's both. Actually, because the company I worked for did have a strong you know environmental plan and you know everything we did from saving on you know electricity, from managing the lights in the factory, recycling every single piece of waste and really really segregating all the waste streams and being very super conscious on environmental impact in the factory as such. So I think that was a really good starting point. And then, obviously, of course, with the more media coverage around the global warming, I've also really been very passionate around just environmental toxins and you know the waste streams that we do have. That's just polluting everything around us, and so for me, it was many things weighing together a very basic level, would you say, because I still think.

Speaker 1:

Again it gets back to education piece I care about. You care about it. Why should people? Why should people care about it enough to try and do something about it? Would you say yeah, I think.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I think just the obvious answer is if you've got kids right, do you want them to be able to actually live on this planet or not? That's, that's basically the easy answer, right, and actually what we're seeing now, just also short term, is these extreme weather conditions. You know we will have environmental or weather crisis and um issues that will actually disrupt the day-to-day life for everybody, with flooding, with storms, with these kinds of extreme weather events that you know we don't, nobody wants to experience.

Speaker 2:

I don't believe, no then, feeling that connection in terms of, yes, I recycle all my waste, or I drive an EV, or I don't drive at all, I take the bike, you know in terms of actually thinking that your small actions has an impact. I think that's probably the biggest hurdle for people to think, you know, everything adds up in the end. So it does matter what I do day to day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely, and I think it's it's habits, isn't it? Because we can all say, let's say, people recycle at work or do things within the business, but if they haven't learned the habits to then go home and and do that, yeah the impact is so small. If they don't influence their family or their children, then it's so small. I'm still shocked by you know, we've been in in five different offices in the last nine, 10 years and every single one we've had to seek out external companies to come and pick up recycling. So the building, the commercial properties you know big commercial properties they don't have recycling. I think that's criminal, really. Do you know what I mean? We've got all these laws and legislation at home, but businesses with 50 people in don't need to. So it's stuff like that which I still think we're miles away. What I am pleased with is I can see the shift now with the mentality of the new generation, and I actually can see it. They're asking on a recruitment point of view. They're asking what companies are doing sustainability.

Speaker 2:

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1:

And I think they actually care, rather than saying the right things. I think people are growing up now and I think that's probably where social media is a real positive.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, exactly, I totally agree. And the more people start caring, the more people start talking, the more people are actually asking those questions in interview and recruitment processes. Right. Companies will also understand that this is actually, from an employee branding perspective, very important. If we're going to attract talent, this is what they care about 100%.

Speaker 1:

Obviously, you made the move to the UK. Was that something again you wanted to do, or was it a role that you couldn't turn down? What was the decision there?

Speaker 2:

no, I did actually do like an expat experience in the UK back in 2013-2014 and I did really fall in love with the country back then. It's so beautiful and I do like the work culture as well and the business setup. At that time I couldn't stay, so um had to move back to Sweden. But I've always had a dream to come back um, and then obviously British Waltz called me and wanted to bring me over and I, just you know, basically said yes on the day and just you know, when can I come?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and here you are in the Northeast, which isn't typically a place people sort of strive. But you know, as a resident of 22 years, I moved here and I love it. I think you've got to live here to appreciate it, haven't?

Speaker 2:

you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, and it's fantastic. It is a fantastic area. Yes, weather-wise it's a bit colder and the wind I haven't really gotten used to the wind just yet, but everything else is amazing.

Speaker 1:

I don't know what you can and can't say about British Falls, but about British Falls, but it'll definitely be an interesting topic for a lot of people because when they came here in the northeast it swept everyone. You know it was this. This is going to be fantastic. It was just so, so positive for the area and there was the it just everything was great. And then obviously it just it just fell, fell, fell. So that must have been a real difficult period to go through that with the business.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I guess, yeah, it was. I mean such a shame really, because obviously the site is exceptional for battery manufacturing. There was complete hydropower electricity available, the port is there, the railhead is there, everything's there to really sustain a large gigafactory for battery manufacturing. So it was all set up beautifully. There were good products in development in the pipeline as well, manufacturing and industrialization project was ticking along quite well as well. And I think the the major failure point was was the inability to really sign up off take, which then, of course, if've got the offtake, you get the investors and you can move from there right. So it was really really challenging at that point. And the other thing about cell manufacturing specifically it's such a difficult business and most of these projects are grossly underestimated in terms of what it actually takes to get a gigafactory up and running. So timelines weren't realistic. And then you start disappointing some of your stakeholders because you're delaying and things like that. That's really detrimental to that kind of endeavour.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what do you think are the key lessons that they should and could have learned, do you think, if they were to do that project this time round, yeah, I think the time to market is one that's really really critical.

Speaker 2:

There was really no focus on time to market and the strategy of thinking that let's develop the best product, we can charge a premium and having that kind of belief and kind of disregarding the whole situation with the battery industry in China. So it was too much internal focus and too little awareness, I would say, around the you know how the global development was actually going, because, I mean, you can buy any battery cell, for you know a teeny, tiny amount uh from china. And how do you convince your customers that well, actually pay a premium or or choose uh british produced ones. You know they're not going to pay double the price. Might pay a little bit extra, yes, but it's not. We're not talking double right. So so you really need to be competitive still and realize the industry that you're, you're in the market, you're, you're in yeah, exactly that and that, and that's one of my biggest concerns about manufacturing in general.

Speaker 1:

You know, it's not just china now. You know there's yeah, we're hearing, you know dubai and other nations. Now we're really competing on on on price and when companies are getting squeezed more than they ever have been, it's going to come down to price, unfortunately, and that's price quality. Where, where's the gap? Um, yeah, I mean what? How big do you think the impact is? Let's use china as an example on the the ev market. Now, would you say, as we stand here today yeah, no.

Speaker 2:

So so for the battery and evs, um, I think the China impact is quite high Because obviously all of the major OEMs now have contracts with battery suppliers from China, partly because there are very few options in Europe and all the European companies are really struggling to meet timelines and develop on time. But then also reliability, quality price China is outstanding. That's where we are currently and I only think we've got a couple of years, five years, to turn this, and then I think that race might be lost. Yeah 100%.

Speaker 1:

So let's say we've got two years and let's say we can't compete on price.

Speaker 2:

No, exactly, we can't.

Speaker 1:

What can we do, would you say.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so obviously sustainability is one of the key ones where Europe still is really well positioned to take a stance and differentiate the product, but the other one is still on innovation and technology the product, but the other one is still on innovation and technology. There is so much that is smarter, better, novel, that we can develop and still are superior, and that actually goes for both product but also for production.

Speaker 1:

So actually having smarter processes, smarter equipment, fewer manufacturing steps, not reliant on manual workforce, but actually automating all of those things, we still have an advantage and I think that's the cutting edge where we should really really focus yeah, I completely agree and and I've said a few times recently that uk powerhouse manufacturing it isn't now but it can be and it should be based on you know it's got everything it should have there appreciate the skill shortage but skill shortage everywhere, but they uh, 100% that I agree with. That automation piece and that investment, yeah, so that's the if that's the solution. What is the challenge to get there? I still think it's probably down to companies affording to be able to exactly and the upfront investment.

Speaker 2:

If you do want to automate and you do want to invest in smart manufacturing or leveraging iot and manufacturing 4.0 and all of those things right, it does require kind of a bigger capex upfront. And I I think that is really the main challenge and I think you know, just having incubator programs, funding available, both grants but also loans, you know, to really help those companies set off and drive these kind of initiatives. It's an absolute necessity.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because exactly that. What we're talking about is cash, isn't it? It's capital.

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And if you can't access it, no, then you can't build, uh really innovative manufacturing assets either without us getting, I guess, too political.

Speaker 1:

What um? Fine if we do, but if it's um, do you think it's a? It's a lack of understanding from, let's say that, the government, uh, that, how, how big manufacturing could be and how good that could be for the economy versus the negative, and they're not put enough cash or the understanding, or where is the gap?

Speaker 2:

because if you yeah, and I think, because the sexy thing is r&d right yeah research development, uh, product innovation or universities and phd programs and kind of manufacturing is a little bit on the back burner. It's not as sexy, you know. It's industry, you know. So I do not think they put enough incentives into that because they're so focused on supporting pure R&D work and not see industrialization. And getting factories off the ground is also important. You know your products aren't going anywhere if you can't make them 100%.

Speaker 1:

I have seen I've seen a lot of companies start to take action, even even without um deep pockets, where they've started to do what they can to automate and do what they can to be more efficient and, I guess, use much more cost effective. You know methodologies for advanced manufacturing and I I think if they wait for support, they would probably not going to get it really sickly no, I think it's a matter of go.

Speaker 2:

Go and get what you need and go and ask for it. Go and you know fight for it as well and then do what you can on your own.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah and this is where companies need to collaborate with each other to understand what good looks like definitely, because there's also a whole value chain here.

Speaker 2:

Right, if there's a manufacturing company, they need equipment, and there's also a whole value chain here. Right, if there's a manufacturing company, they need equipment and there's an equipment manufacturer somewhere. So there is an ecosystem here that can totally collaborate.

Speaker 1:

I 100% that. What do you think we can learn from other countries? Just about process and about supply chain and EV and that sort of stuff? You know, you know ways. Perhaps you know ways the world, for example, you've seen very efficient, you know. Are they a good example of a company that we could learn from?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think if you're just looking at the, the whole EV shift in Norway, I mean currently they they sell more EV cars, you know, than anyone else in the world. Maybe China is soon on par right, but they made that switch by governmental incentives and all sorts of programs to actually make sure people uh prioritize buying evs. I think uk is not doing too bad here, though, because there are there are many schemes. There are this, you know salary sacrifice schemes for ev programs and and the charging infrastructure is is is decent yeah it's got a lot better.

Speaker 1:

So I'm four years into my EV and when I first got it and I've got one of the first models. But the technology isn't great. It's a four by four but I get about 120 miles out best and about 70 worst. And it's fantastic that around the house charge it at night time cheap, cheapest chips love it. You get range anxiety if I go anywhere. But the difference now is when I first had it, there was hardly any charges. Yeah, they were so reliable.

Speaker 2:

Now they're everywhere really, and they're quick, they're not cheap.

Speaker 1:

Yet, and I think that's the difference those fast ones aren't cheap, but the the infrastructure has definitely, definitely improved.

Speaker 2:

I would say you mentioned.

Speaker 1:

There the cost is coming down, so I can see that. But actually there's some sudden hesitation as we sit here today post-budget and post-government decisions to sort of push back the the regulations. Despite the fact there's been some breaking news today, I haven't read yet, so something may have happened.

Speaker 2:

I've seen the world, yeah cross your fingers and hope it's good yeah, yeah, because and and do you think that?

Speaker 1:

because I right now, with so many issues in the last few weeks with automotive right, I've seen so many audiences, I've spoken to so many people who have gone well, because it's been pushed with. You know, we're in limbo in terms of what to produce now. Do you think that's, that's the trouble?

Speaker 2:

we're in this sort of limbo situation now yeah, and I think especially for automotive, who have such long timelines in terms of the new models that are coming you know they're five years ahead when they're planning right, they can't have political decisions changing day by day because they just can't switch that quickly. So I think that's detrimental actually to the strategy. But then obviously I'm also very biased, because political decisions need to drive the transition. You know it's not going to happen by itself and politics need to really drive these incentives. But also just banning ICE and not putting appropriate incentives in place to further EVs, that's also not helping, because obviously you do have every person who can't afford buying an EV and whatnot, right, so you need to enable them to make the transition and really make sure that this is commonplace and not just just for some people who can actually afford it.

Speaker 1:

Apologies for interrupting this podcast with a very quick 30 second description of my business. Theo James are an engineering and manufacturing recruitment search firm based in Durham. We specialize in contracts and permanent opportunities, from blue collar semi-skilled roles right the way up to C-suite level exec positions. If you're looking for any new, additional staff or new opportunity for yourself in the industry, please contact me or the team. There'll be a specialist in your area waiting to help. I'm incredibly proud of this business and what we've built since our inception in 2015 and I would love to extend that service out to you. So thank you very much. Hope you enjoy the episode.

Speaker 1:

Do you have any any foresight in terms of, if they will, they will be really affordable cars? Because you mentioned that, because for a lot of people, a car is something they're happy to pay a lot of money for, whether that's upfront or, you know, a few hundred pounds a month. People don't see that as debt. They see it as as because of like the car. Other people like to spend 700 pounds on a car which will get them to a to b um, and that that's all they care about, and they don't want to spend 20 grand on a car. Do you think is how much is? Is that something that's been looked at in the EV world, would you say?

Speaker 2:

No, I'm not sure. And it's quite interesting actually, because France a while ago created a program for affordable EVs and put a max price tag that people can actually access it. And the other thing is actually secondhand EVs, because now the batteries are proving to be better than you thought from the beginning. Right In the beginning people said, well, those cars are only going to last five years and then the batteries run out and there's no value left in the car. So I think that hesitation for buying an EV as well is still there to some extent. But actually now the battery packs are sometimes proven to live longer than the actual car. So the more we see that, the more the second-hand market will take off, and that's perhaps where people are more willing to to pay less and still get uh, get a decent um ev yeah that, yeah, that does make sense.

Speaker 1:

Um, because even my car, if I look at it, I'm worried how much is depreciated, because now you can get that same car but the battery will do double what mine. So why would someone?

Speaker 2:

buy it? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:

We got that car when there was a fantastic government scheme where you could counter it off your corporation site.

Speaker 2:

You can't do that anymore.

Speaker 1:

No yeah.

Speaker 2:

No, and that's the other thing. Right, Making sure that the government protects those kinds of incentives that will drive people to actually switch to EVs. It could be all sorts of those things right Offset tax or your salary sacrifice, leasing programs or whatnot.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, is it schemes in ways that other businesses or other countries have done? So you mentioned Norway To try and push that through then. Yeah, I think in.

Speaker 2:

Norway they've had a lot of grants and tax relief on EV.

Speaker 1:

Uh, to really make sure people had a big benefits when they bought them and obviously the charging infrastructure has been there as well yeah, yeah, I think that's a that has to be a big part of it. There's still a missing gap for people understanding the benefits yeah, exactly, and lots is behavior and expectations right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I get range anxiety. There are no charges, it's not going to run in winter because the cold's just going to take my range off. You know secondhand value is zero. You know there's all sorts of various misconceptions that people might still have around EVs that will put them off.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Another one you might be able to debunk. I hear people going EV's not the future, hydrogen's the future, this type of stuff. What would you say to those people?

Speaker 2:

So for cars I don't think hydrogen has a future because it's too expensive and it won't be cost effective. Now, with the price of the batteries coming down, it's just not there for hydrogen. I think hydrogen's got another role to play in long-distance, really heavy transport, for instance, where you can't charge. It could be ferry traffic or sea freight or other types, but it's just not cost-effective or cheap enough.

Speaker 1:

That's interesting. Yeah, because I think that will help to, because people are still again concerned to buy electric, because they think they're going to buy hydrogen. So I think that again will help people. We've touched on it briefly. But the energy storage piece how stable is the UK grid, would you say? How does that work, would you say?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I think there are still, you know, UK's plugged in. I think it's actually the highest percentage of wind power in all of Europe, for natural reasons. But with every single sustainable resource you plug into your grid, you're destabilizing the grid and really risking outages on the grid. So you do need battery energy storage to regulate the frequency, but also to act as a buffer for peaks and troughs, because obviously the wind produces when the wind is high, right, not necessarily where everybody comes home from work and puts their cooker on. So you do need to balance that demand and supply in a very different way, because production will happen when it happens and not when you have the demand peaks.

Speaker 2:

And it's also around the grid capacity, because currently, if we were to just directly pump all the wind power or other sustainable sources like solar onto the grid, the grid can't actually take it. All the sustainable sources like solar onto the grid, the grid can't actually take it all. You know we would have to invest in so many new um transformer stations and everything. So the battery packs are actually also needed to just really even out, uh, the load on the grid as well, and then frequency regulation and voltage regulation as well to just keep, keep it stable. So it's an absolute necessity when, when you're pumping in more renewable uh power interesting.

Speaker 1:

So predictions time now. Then if you, if, if we're, we're 2024. Now, if we go 10 years ahead, let's say it's um 10 years time. Based on everything you know about the technology, the challenges, the risks, what do you think the uk is going to look like in 2034?

Speaker 2:

let's say yeah so my, my main hope is that the gas will be gone okay all the houses are still heated with gas. There's such a such a wide gas network still that I do hope uh will be gone um not be with heat pumps?

Speaker 2:

presumably is it yeah, exactly, to just really either being able to electrify everything and actually use sustainable sources, because uk is really well positioned for wind, I mean actually even solar you wouldn't think, but you know there there's high efficiency solar now, um, so I think that would be the main desire. Whether it will happen or not, I'm not sure, but I already see in my council now all the new houses they build have zero gas. They are all electric right. So this is happening, but your electricity use, of course in your domestic environment, is only as good as the quality of the power that you have, so that shift is so important that what happens with, with the overall power supply here.

Speaker 2:

So there needs to be a different business model around your power um that and I I do hope that will be in place, you know, over the next 10 years yeah, and to be fair, they do seem to be be pledging to try to tackle that.

Speaker 1:

I think they've come under a lot of criticism and rightly so in my opinion for the budget and recently. But they have pledged still the same amount of money to the renewables piece and I know they're looking to train heat pump engineers and that whole bit.

Speaker 2:

So that seems to be moving forward again.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, nine out of ten people do not understand it and I think I'm not having a something in my, in my garden do you know? To me. I don't think they really understand how that all works and how that's gonna, but that that that needs to be where you're moving forward, isn't it? So people eat their houses differently, I guess exactly, exactly and again you know something.

Speaker 2:

You know it's also down to people in some some ways changing habits, etc. Having incentives to put your solar panels on on your roof, having your own domestic battery energy storage so that you can actually leverage what you produce yourself, etc. So really making sure that those things are possible from from a political and legislation standpoint is important yeah, and what about the manufacture, ev manufacturing in isolation in the uk?

Speaker 1:

what, what's your gut? Where do you? Where do you think it will be in 10 years' time?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I do still hope that it has a very strong position here in the UK. I mean all of the old traditional OEMs here in the UK. They do have a line of electric cars right, they?

Speaker 2:

do there is production, and I think that the challenge they have, same as all the other OEMs, is to have a reliable battery source, which should hopefully be domestically produced as well, and you've got the rules of origin and all of it right. So that does need to come into play, otherwise it's going to be a very, very challenging situation for those OEMs, right? But it's all about making that happen. And then the other side of it is, of course, all the manufacturer's responsibility when it comes to having sustainability strategies and, you know, proper, credible plans in place to reduce their carbon footprint, to reduce their environmental impact. Critical, because if all the manufacturing sites and all the all the plants in the uk had a very strong sustainability effort, you know that will be a massive impact.

Speaker 1:

A massive impact. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I completely agree. I think, um and I'm so very confident in automotive has been heavily hit over the last few weeks yeah yeah, all the conversations I have, the very, quite top level, are it is painful, very painful, but it is temporary. You know there's, you know people will start buying cars again and ultimately, when those orders come in, you know jobs will come back.

Speaker 1:

It's just a really horrible situation right now to see so many companies doing what they're doing. But you mentioned that all the brands have got, or will have, their own version of ev. Um jlr can't make enough.

Speaker 1:

You know hybrid models and they're bringing out a, uh, that lam rover range over a full, I think, 450 miles it's going to get and and yeah, I think that when, when the technology is getting that level, I think for me that that's when the game changes. When people go, doesn't really matter what the what charging system is like, because I'll just charge at home every, every month Exactly.

Speaker 2:

Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1:

Exactly so that I'm confident it will. I really do.

Speaker 2:

No, and I think I mean the EV industry is so kind of sensitive to, sensitive to to the market fluctuations and the the economy you know the financial state of of the nation, if you like, right. Yeah, versus other industries that are kind of less um less impacted.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, and it's new. You know it still. You know, hasn't got years and years in it to understand what good looks like, and then it's still fine at its feet. So I think that that's all part of it, isn't it 100% sure? Um, tell me a bit about Nidec and Energy. So what part do they play in all this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so our mother company, Nidec. They've been in the battery energy storage for quite some time so they deliver and supply the big you know, dc blocks, the containerized solutions for these big utility parks or industry-scale energy storage systems, and what Nidec wants to do is just move a little bit up the supply chain and start making their own modules and packs. So that's where we come in to set up local manufacturing and assembly in Europe to make sure that there is a more secure supply and localised supply to kind of feed these containers basically.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, excellent stuff. So, and and what? What are you coming up against? The moment is it are they sort of is there plenty of opportunity out there?

Speaker 2:

is there some sort of uh, yeah, the market's really really big um and it's really expanding and growing a lot uh across europe. The challenge again is is with the chinese um competition, you know, because they are super cheap, they're very reliable, high volumes. They've been at it for, you know, 10 odd years and we are just catching up in Europe now. I think that's the main challenge. And if you do look at the EV industry, they are a bit more inclined to actually pay more for good sustainability, good sustainability credentials and esg right versus energy storage markets not as mature yet and you know the price is the the key determination factor at the moment. So I do hope the industry as such, and or the market will will kind of mature more on the sustainability side and actually be ready to pay a bit more. That said, the Chinese companies also know what European companies ask for, so they are not far behind in actually adapting to sustainable manufacturing either. So we should definitely not underestimate their ability to adapt here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a challenge and an opportunity, isn't it? We're somewhere right in the middle of all that now, because it's exciting to see that the UK could and should be such an important player in this.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

I think, if they sleepwalk into it, it's going to be a real challenging one. Are you still seeing passionate and positive and up for it is that? Is that just your mindset, or it's yeah?

Speaker 2:

yeah, totally. I mean, this is so important and we still got a. We still got a good chance to really industrialize and and put uh, put the uk battery manufacturing on the map here. This can still be done and, uh, we do. We are very well positioned to do this, you know, responsibly, with good sustainability, credentials and making sure that we can also feed the uk demand, which is actually quite large. If you're just looking at the energy storage, uk is one of the biggest markets in in the in in all of europe. Actually, I think it's something like even number four or number seven globally as well so the market in uk is huge when it comes to energy storage alone.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, excellent, it's fascinating. It's good to hear, it's good to hear some real positivity. So final question just on that If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about the sector which enabled growth and opportunities, what would it be?

Speaker 2:

Oh, one thing about the sector which enabled growth and opportunities. What would it be? Oh, one thing, well, I think it's definitely access to funding, and I think the other one, as you actually briefly mentioned, is the skills, um, access to the right skills and experience to do this. And, to be honest, you know europe it's a very scarce, uh, talent pool here with the right industrial experience. We're great in in the research, great on the university scale, but actually manufacturing industrialization, we just don't have enough people with the right experience and skill sets here and do you think that is a training issue or do you think that is um attracting people to want to train in the first place, would you say?

Speaker 2:

I think it's both actually okay. Um, I don't know, you know the university programs out there, etc. But you know, having industrialization programs, that's probably not as attractive as going into into research. Um, which is actually why I like the northeast, because northeast has taken more the industrialization approach and are actually really focusing on that angle rather than material. You know super scientific work. This is more centered on on industry and that is so needed. It's really really the key thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and there's some great stuff happening in North East. You know what I mean. You've still got ASC. You know Envision.

Speaker 1:

You've still got loads of great companies doing some amazing things. There's still growth there, you know, and this is why I think this is why I feel like it's important to talk about this type of stuff on the podcast, because the news like, unfortunately, bad news, sells and they like to tell that the bad stuff happens and unfortunately is out there, but there's so much good positivity and opportunity and challenges it is. It's still a great place, um, particularly, like you say, the northeast it's. There's so much going for it. I mean, yeah, it's uh right where you're in northumberland now there's loads happening around blithe and all that sort of pieces you know around durham, you've got a new sort of science home.

Speaker 1:

Indeed, there's so much there really is. So, uh, no, and this is why it's important. Well, thank you very much. Today, I think you've you'll have, um, you've debunked some myths which people still, you know, don't, which is great. People don't understand that a lot, a lot of that AV side. But actually you've talked about the challenges, and I think that's important to do so, because if we aren't aware of those and if we aren't aware of the biggest competition, let's say China, and we're not doing anything about it, it wouldn't be too late, cause, I agree, I think we've got two or three years.

Speaker 2:

Because I agree.

Speaker 1:

I think we've got two or three years yes, crucial two or three years to do so, and the government needs to support them because companies can't do it alone. So thank you so much, lina, this has been great. Really appreciate it.

Speaker 2:

Great. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 1:

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